"And what kind of power plant can be brought on line quickly for peak demand when the solar is not enough? As far as I know, only a nuclear fission plant."
The thing I don't understand about your post is that the grid has the capacity to supply people now. Why wouldn't it have the capacity if they install solar panels on their house, thereby reducing their demand during the day? Does not compute. No one is arguing that solar will replace central power generation and the grid. It won't. But it can be an good and important supplement to that system.
I installed my 3.2 kw PV array in Sept. 2003, and the rebates available then paid for about 70% of the total system cost, putting my payback at around 8 years. That rebate was paid for entirely by Edison. I was under the impression that if anything, the rebates were going down, not up. I do understand that there are more state and federal incentives now, so that might up the difference. I was particularly angry that I didn't not get one red cent of tax credit, deduction, or anything from the federal government, though I did get a nice credit for State taxes.
It is very satisfying watching your meter spin backwards...
I have a 3.2 kw photovoltaic array on the roof of my house, and have had it for 5 years now. I live in Southern California, so my heating bills are not bad at all, and my house is heated by NG. My clothes dryer and water heater are NG as well, though the water heater is getting changed to passive solar in the next few months.
The reason for my posting is that if you live in a really cold area, the amount of electricity needed for heating will be way beyond what a solar system is capable of producing. Solar works great until you have a really high load. Where I live, I need AC more than heat, and I try to avoid AC at all costs. From the data I have collected, running the AC for 8 hours uses the same amount of electricity I normally use in 5 days without AC. One day of AC will wipe out all the excess production for a couple of weeks. Luckily, my employer pays my cooling costs, since I am at work during the day, and it is cool enough to open the house and turn on the whole house fan when I get home.
And we are starting to get tired of conservatives absolving themselves of the responsibility of the current situation by simply saying that "Bush is not a conservative."
Look, conservatives elected the so-called "Compassionate Conservative" Bush twice, conservatives elected the Republican congress that let Bush get away with whatever he and his fascist cronies wanted, conservatives defended his illegal and immoral actions, conservatives accused anyone who disagreed with the Administration of being "Anti-American" or "Not supporting the troops." Conservatives allowed congress and Bush increase the National debt, increase the size of the Federal Government, and all those other "non-conservative" things. Now that the shit has hit the fan, you conservatives can't come back and say it isn't your fault. Accept the responsibility for your actions. If you truly didn't agree with Bush's conservative values, why weren't you speaking up earlier? Why did you re-elect him?
As a person who once made the mistake of trying to drive a Volkswagen Bus from Canada to the US, as a US citizen, no, the Constitution does not apply at the border.
My vehicle, without any just cause, no drug dog etc, was completely taken apart and destroyed by Customs officials, and I had no recourse. This was in 1989. They cut up and removed the seats, dash, headliner, carpet. They drilled a hole in the gas tank and drained it. They removed all 4 wheels and the tires from the wheels. They took all my luggage and dumped it out on the ground. Then, when they didn't find anything, told me I had 30 minutes to remove everything from their parking lot or it would be confiscated and destroyed. 30 minutes to remove a vehicle with no gas and a hole in the gas tank, no seats and no wheels. I basically packed up my suitcases and bags, grabbing as much as I could carry, and left the vehicle behind. Walked across the border, hitched a ride into town, and took the Greyhound home. Never did find out what they did with my Bus.
While they were tearing apart my vehicle, any protest I made was greated with the usual "You are interferring with Customs Officials, if you continue, you will be arrested."
AMEN! I love to read that. A country that actually protects the title of "Engineer." Here is the United States, anyone can call themselves an Engineer. The kids who pick up the carts at Home Depot are called "Lot Engineers," equipment operators call themselves "Operating Engineers" and software developers call themselves "Software Engineers."
Sometimes I am embarrassed to call myself an Engineer (licensed Professional Engineer - Civil) because I then have to explain that I am a real engineer, not someone who co-opted the title. "Doctor" is a protected title in the US, why isn't "Engineer?"
The competitor issue is what concerns my employer the most. When people leave, it is generally to retire, go to a competitor, or go to the government (our clients). If you are retiring or going to the government, then you can and are asked to stay the two weeks to help train your replacement. If you are going to a competitor, you are given a box to put your personal stuff in, and escorted out the door.
Apple has always charged ridiculous prices for memory upgrades. Fortunately, upgrading memory is very easy and can be done for much less. I upgraded my iMac from 2gb to 4gb for $120, and my Macbook to 2gb for less than $100. Bought the memory at Crucial.
The electricity for my home comes from the sun and wind.
More to your point, large scale electrical power plants are many times more efficient than millions of tiny little ones (internal combustion engines). The benefit alone in those differences in efficiency makes it worth it, plus the added bonus of using renewable energy when you can.
"No sensible parent would buy little Timmy such a game, any more than they would sit them down in front of a DVD of 'Scarface'. Right?"
When I was purchasing my copy, there were two mothers in line with their little Timmys, buying the game for them. Each of those kids couldn't have been older than 10. One even went so far as to insult the clerk at the store when he suggested the game might not be suitable for her 10 year old.
When I went to go see "Hostel" at the theater, there were at least 10-15 kids under 10 there, with their parents.
What the hell do you right wingers have against Volvos? Everytime one of you feels the need to insult a liberal, "Volvo-driving" almost always comes up. And for the life of me, I don't understand why. I can understand a Prius, but a Volvo? It is just a nice, European sedan, no different than a BMW or Audi, so why pick on it?
Most Volvos I see have "McCain" stickers on them anyway.
Where is his post did he say that they should or would force you to get rid of your ICE car? All he mentioned was the California EV mandate, which only required a very small percentage of cars to be EV, not all. And by no means does it mandate that people are forced to give up their ICE cars, nor forced to buy a EV car.
Either way, the market is not allowed to decide right now as their is no EV's available right now that are more than a enclosed golf cart. GM made sure of that.
Sorry, but along with the application, you must provide proof that you own assets exceeding $500 million. Once you have the money, they will let you play the game.
It really depends on the state you live in as well.
In California, there is a state law that prohibits Cities and HOAs from preventing you from installing solar if their only objection is aesthetics. They can say your roof isn't structurally sufficient, or something like that, but they can't stop you because they don't like the way they look.
"The standard issue power meters only flow in one direction - they don't spin backwards when you're generating more than you're using. They usually require you to install a special meter that requires routine calibration by a licensed professional."
Question for you. Southern California Edison installed the bidirectional meter to measure the electricity that I am using and sending back into the grid (3.2 kw netmetered PV system). This meter does spin backwards. They specifically had to remove my one direction meter to install this bidirectional meter. You are saying that this meter should require routine calibration? I should be bugging Edison to routinely calibrate my meter? No criticism, I would just like to know if they should calibrating it regularly or not. I don't seem to remember them ever calibrating a meter once is was installed.
I have a 3.2 kw net metered PV system on my house. Where I live (Southern California) there is no time of day metering, nor different rates for power depending on the time of day you use it, for residential customers. I pay the same per kwh if I use it during the day or night. So, every kwh I put into the grid is equivalent to one kwh I take back at night.
The main dollar savings for the solar system is not necessarily in the total kwh I produce, but rather that every kwh I produce is taken off the higher tiers of billing. Here, the more electricity you use, the more each kwh costs. They establish a baseline, and every kwh below that baseline costs X, then every kwh from the baseline to 200% of baseline costs 2X, etc. For me, every kwh I actually pay for is under the baseline, so I acutally pay the lowest amount possible for each kwh, when prior to the solar installation, almost 2/3 of my power usuage was above baseline. That has accounted for the largest savings. The system produces roughly 3/4 of my electrical needs, so I pay for 1/4 of the electricity I used to, but my bill is usually 1/10 or less what it was prior to the system installation.
Of course people will have a problem with that! This is slashdot, where any green technology that has more than a 12 month payback is immediately shot down as stupid, wasteful, more destructive to the environment, and only installed to one up the neighbors.
Slashdot Mirror
"And what kind of power plant can be brought on line quickly for peak demand when the solar is not enough? As far as I know, only a nuclear fission plant."
Most Peaker Plants are run on Natural Gas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant
The thing I don't understand about your post is that the grid has the capacity to supply people now. Why wouldn't it have the capacity if they install solar panels on their house, thereby reducing their demand during the day? Does not compute. No one is arguing that solar will replace central power generation and the grid. It won't. But it can be an good and important supplement to that system.
I installed my 3.2 kw PV array in Sept. 2003, and the rebates available then paid for about 70% of the total system cost, putting my payback at around 8 years. That rebate was paid for entirely by Edison. I was under the impression that if anything, the rebates were going down, not up. I do understand that there are more state and federal incentives now, so that might up the difference. I was particularly angry that I didn't not get one red cent of tax credit, deduction, or anything from the federal government, though I did get a nice credit for State taxes.
It is very satisfying watching your meter spin backwards...
I have a 3.2 kw photovoltaic array on the roof of my house, and have had it for 5 years now. I live in Southern California, so my heating bills are not bad at all, and my house is heated by NG. My clothes dryer and water heater are NG as well, though the water heater is getting changed to passive solar in the next few months.
The reason for my posting is that if you live in a really cold area, the amount of electricity needed for heating will be way beyond what a solar system is capable of producing. Solar works great until you have a really high load. Where I live, I need AC more than heat, and I try to avoid AC at all costs. From the data I have collected, running the AC for 8 hours uses the same amount of electricity I normally use in 5 days without AC. One day of AC will wipe out all the excess production for a couple of weeks. Luckily, my employer pays my cooling costs, since I am at work during the day, and it is cool enough to open the house and turn on the whole house fan when I get home.
We are not at war with Iraq.
And we are starting to get tired of conservatives absolving themselves of the responsibility of the current situation by simply saying that "Bush is not a conservative." Look, conservatives elected the so-called "Compassionate Conservative" Bush twice, conservatives elected the Republican congress that let Bush get away with whatever he and his fascist cronies wanted, conservatives defended his illegal and immoral actions, conservatives accused anyone who disagreed with the Administration of being "Anti-American" or "Not supporting the troops." Conservatives allowed congress and Bush increase the National debt, increase the size of the Federal Government, and all those other "non-conservative" things. Now that the shit has hit the fan, you conservatives can't come back and say it isn't your fault. Accept the responsibility for your actions. If you truly didn't agree with Bush's conservative values, why weren't you speaking up earlier? Why did you re-elect him?
As a person who once made the mistake of trying to drive a Volkswagen Bus from Canada to the US, as a US citizen, no, the Constitution does not apply at the border.
My vehicle, without any just cause, no drug dog etc, was completely taken apart and destroyed by Customs officials, and I had no recourse. This was in 1989. They cut up and removed the seats, dash, headliner, carpet. They drilled a hole in the gas tank and drained it. They removed all 4 wheels and the tires from the wheels. They took all my luggage and dumped it out on the ground. Then, when they didn't find anything, told me I had 30 minutes to remove everything from their parking lot or it would be confiscated and destroyed. 30 minutes to remove a vehicle with no gas and a hole in the gas tank, no seats and no wheels. I basically packed up my suitcases and bags, grabbing as much as I could carry, and left the vehicle behind. Walked across the border, hitched a ride into town, and took the Greyhound home. Never did find out what they did with my Bus.
While they were tearing apart my vehicle, any protest I made was greated with the usual "You are interferring with Customs Officials, if you continue, you will be arrested."
" I choose who gets to view my genitalia. "
Unless you go through a backscatter scanner at the airport, or are subject to strip search.
AMEN! I love to read that. A country that actually protects the title of "Engineer." Here is the United States, anyone can call themselves an Engineer. The kids who pick up the carts at Home Depot are called "Lot Engineers," equipment operators call themselves "Operating Engineers" and software developers call themselves "Software Engineers."
Sometimes I am embarrassed to call myself an Engineer (licensed Professional Engineer - Civil) because I then have to explain that I am a real engineer, not someone who co-opted the title. "Doctor" is a protected title in the US, why isn't "Engineer?"
The competitor issue is what concerns my employer the most. When people leave, it is generally to retire, go to a competitor, or go to the government (our clients). If you are retiring or going to the government, then you can and are asked to stay the two weeks to help train your replacement. If you are going to a competitor, you are given a box to put your personal stuff in, and escorted out the door.
Apple has always charged ridiculous prices for memory upgrades. Fortunately, upgrading memory is very easy and can be done for much less. I upgraded my iMac from 2gb to 4gb for $120, and my Macbook to 2gb for less than $100. Bought the memory at Crucial.
I don't think you could have come up with a worse comparision if you tried. They are totally different vehicles made for totally different purposes.
Why not compare your F250 to a submarine? I am sure your F250 will come out on top.
The electricity for my home comes from the sun and wind.
More to your point, large scale electrical power plants are many times more efficient than millions of tiny little ones (internal combustion engines). The benefit alone in those differences in efficiency makes it worth it, plus the added bonus of using renewable energy when you can.
WTF are you talking about? Both are well affordable to people who can't afford a $100k car. I own both and drive a $20k car.
Try not living in the middle of nowhere.
I would like to see them try and tax the electricity coming off my solar panels.
"No sensible parent would buy little Timmy such a game, any more than they would sit them down in front of a DVD of 'Scarface'. Right?"
When I was purchasing my copy, there were two mothers in line with their little Timmys, buying the game for them. Each of those kids couldn't have been older than 10. One even went so far as to insult the clerk at the store when he suggested the game might not be suitable for her 10 year old.
When I went to go see "Hostel" at the theater, there were at least 10-15 kids under 10 there, with their parents.
What the hell do you right wingers have against Volvos? Everytime one of you feels the need to insult a liberal, "Volvo-driving" almost always comes up. And for the life of me, I don't understand why. I can understand a Prius, but a Volvo? It is just a nice, European sedan, no different than a BMW or Audi, so why pick on it?
Most Volvos I see have "McCain" stickers on them anyway.
- Tired of Volvo haters...drive a S60.
Where is his post did he say that they should or would force you to get rid of your ICE car? All he mentioned was the California EV mandate, which only required a very small percentage of cars to be EV, not all. And by no means does it mandate that people are forced to give up their ICE cars, nor forced to buy a EV car.
Either way, the market is not allowed to decide right now as their is no EV's available right now that are more than a enclosed golf cart. GM made sure of that.
Exactly,
The California energy crisis was caused by the "letting the market decide" and the market decided to screw all the people of Califoria.
Thanks for the reply, I won't worry about it.
"Where do I sign up to be on their team?"
Sorry, but along with the application, you must provide proof that you own assets exceeding $500 million. Once you have the money, they will let you play the game.
It really depends on the state you live in as well.
In California, there is a state law that prohibits Cities and HOAs from preventing you from installing solar if their only objection is aesthetics. They can say your roof isn't structurally sufficient, or something like that, but they can't stop you because they don't like the way they look.
"The standard issue power meters only flow in one direction - they don't spin backwards when you're generating more than you're using. They usually require you to install a special meter that requires routine calibration by a licensed professional."
Question for you. Southern California Edison installed the bidirectional meter to measure the electricity that I am using and sending back into the grid (3.2 kw netmetered PV system). This meter does spin backwards. They specifically had to remove my one direction meter to install this bidirectional meter. You are saying that this meter should require routine calibration? I should be bugging Edison to routinely calibrate my meter? No criticism, I would just like to know if they should calibrating it regularly or not. I don't seem to remember them ever calibrating a meter once is was installed.
I have a 3.2 kw net metered PV system on my house. Where I live (Southern California) there is no time of day metering, nor different rates for power depending on the time of day you use it, for residential customers. I pay the same per kwh if I use it during the day or night. So, every kwh I put into the grid is equivalent to one kwh I take back at night. The main dollar savings for the solar system is not necessarily in the total kwh I produce, but rather that every kwh I produce is taken off the higher tiers of billing. Here, the more electricity you use, the more each kwh costs. They establish a baseline, and every kwh below that baseline costs X, then every kwh from the baseline to 200% of baseline costs 2X, etc. For me, every kwh I actually pay for is under the baseline, so I acutally pay the lowest amount possible for each kwh, when prior to the solar installation, almost 2/3 of my power usuage was above baseline. That has accounted for the largest savings. The system produces roughly 3/4 of my electrical needs, so I pay for 1/4 of the electricity I used to, but my bill is usually 1/10 or less what it was prior to the system installation.
"You got a problem with that?"
Of course people will have a problem with that! This is slashdot, where any green technology that has more than a 12 month payback is immediately shot down as stupid, wasteful, more destructive to the environment, and only installed to one up the neighbors.