I'm curious - how many people did you think were really going to be confused by that, keeping in mind it was a politician speaking and they are prone to use symbolic language?
Well, it looks like Snowden's actions continue to bear fruit in harming both the US and its allies. I suppose the US could start exposing the spying of various European countries occurring in the US as a "teachable moment." There is plenty of it going on. Of course that would probably result in considerable unpleasantness.
Whomever Snowden's handler is will probably receive a commendation. The Soviets tried for years to split the US and Europe, and never really managed it.
Iran has troops assisting the Syrian government. It has long had agents destabilizing Iran, Lebanon, and various Gulf countries. It trained and armed insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan so that they could attack coalition forces. It has repeatedly threatened to close the Arabian Gulf (aka Persian Gulf) to sea traffic. It is one of the leading sponsors of terrorism in the world. The Secretary General of the UN has rebuked them for their threats against Israel. And they are not being forthcoming on their nuclear weapons plans which include warheads for their long range missiles that are bringing Europe under threat. It continues arming Hezbollah to attack Israel with thousands of rockets. They are cooperating with Venezuela, training their army.
This doesn't cover everything, but there is clearly plenty of mischief making potential there.
That was a provision to weaken the institution of slavery, which was established in the southern colonies prior to the formation of the United States, not a comment on the humanity of the slaves.
Had the slaves been counted fully it would have meant more representatives for southern states to vote in Congress. Had they not been counted at all, the southern states might not have ratified the constitution. Like many things in the constitution it was a compromise, but it ultimately served its purpose.
Besides which, I trust you heard that the abolitionist party in the US, the Republicans, was eventually able to get a president elected who then freed the slaves.
Simple question, did I, or did I not write this?: "The police call transcript and map are helpful, as is various aspects of the other material.
The top two links in my second post to you make much of the previous post reasonably clear. My suggestion is to open the map in one web browser, and the transcript in another, and simply read.
The racial slur used by Martin? Shown in the third link which shows that it was testified to in open court by the woman he was speaking to on the phone during the incident.
From the police call, Martin was ahead of Zimmerman and had disappeared. From the map it is clear that Martin could have continued to his home if he didn't want a confrontation. He didn't do that. Why? Maybe his interest in martial arts fighting, fight club like activities, drug use, burglaries, and other activities might indicate the trajectory he was on, figuratively which acted out literally?
The rest of the links tend to show the prosecution's case falling apart. Even their own witnesses are undermining it. Many of the witnesses are providing evidence in Zimmerman's favor, although not all. And that isn't addressing some of the prosecution's questionable behavior before the trial.
What the jury will do is the biggest mystery here.
Why would he need to tell police in the future (when they arrived) where he was, if he just told the dispatcher to tell the police he'd meet them at the mailboxes? Because he wasn't going to be back at his vehicle by the mailboxes. He was going to lead them straight to Martin, and to do that, he needed to find Martin and possibly detain him until police arrived.
There are plenty of reasons why he might want to be contacted by the police when they were nearing the designated meeting place, such as the possibility of them arriving sooner than expected while Zimmerman was still traveling to that point. That way he could coordinate with them.
Do you have any actual evidence for Zimmerman intending to detain Martin? That didn't appear to be his intent during the call, nor with his behavior prior to the call. So far it looks like you have a pet theory not supported by evidence.
One was a female friend of Martin - the one that was on the phone with him during the incident, the other was a witness to the assault. You might be projecting. Ask yourself why you think they are biased? Is it just because the evidence looks bad for Martin?
Martin had broken contact with Zimmerman while Zimmerman was on the phone to the police. Zimmerman had agreed to meet the police that were dispatched to the site and was on his way when Martin confronted and assaulted Zimmerman. Martin had previous used a racial slur to describe Zimmerman. It was Martin's choice to confront Zimmerman. Since he was ahead of Zimmerman, Martin could have continued on his way to his house instead of confronting Zimmerman.
MARTIN WAS NOT WALKING AROUND IN A PLACE WHERE HE SHOULD NOT BE.
Martin was behaving in a way that a neighborhood watch volunteer (Zimmerman) found to be suspicious, which caused him to call the police, and agreed to meet the dispatched officers when they arrived. Martin described Zimmerman with a racial slur, then confronted and attacked Zimmerman.
But Zimmerman was armed and deliberately sought a confrontation with him, not the other way around.
No, what Zimmerman did was observe Martin from a distance and call the police, he didn't seek to confront Martin. It was Martin that described Zimmerman with a racial slur, confronted and attacked Zimmerman.
From what I've read, it corresponds to the 911 transcript. The operator tried to get him to back off.
I think you need to reread that transcript again. Zimmerman had agreed to meet the police officers that had been dispatched to the site. Martin confronted and assaulted Zimmerman after that. Since he was ahead of Zimmerman and on his way home, if Marin had continued on his way he would have been home instead of assaulting Zimmerman, which led to his being shot.
Dispatcher:OK.We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]
Zimmerman: OK. [2:28] (wind noises heard)
Dispatcher:Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]
Zimmerman:George. He ran.
Dispatcher:Alright, George, what’s your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman.
...
Dispatcher: Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then they go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]
...
Dispatcher: OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]
Zimmerman: Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]
...
Dispatcher: OK, no problem. I’ll let them know to call you when they’re in the area. [4:02]
Zimmerman:Thanks.
Dispatcher: You’re welcome.
Call ends 4:07
The trial seems to be going strongly in Zimmerman's favor, of course juries are unpredictable.
Unfortunately Turkey is heading in the opposite direction, towards becoming an Islamic state. The Islamists in power have seriously weakened the Turkish army so there is little likelihood that it will be able to step in again to restore secular government. This might be a more or less permanent change.
There is more than one way to pay for some things. NHS does well in many respects, and overall Britons seem to be reasonably happy with it, but there are problems there, as there are in Canada, and other government run programs.
The problem is that the people wanted socialized medicine and we got an insurance scam.
No, "the people" didn't want socialized medicine. That is why the bill didn't come close to that, in the first place.
The real problem is that healthcare costs too much in the first place. You can't just insurance that away. What we really need is for the federal government to tell the whole crooked industry, "Just one more $2 ahh stick or $8 tylenol and we nationalize the whole damned thing!".
Using price controls to set the price below economic costs has a predicable outcome. You aren't just paying for the $.01 or less of wood in the stick, or the pill. You are also paying for facilities cost, utilities, staff, and likely part of the time of the nurse that might fetch it, as well as the doctor. And don't leave out the cost to treat people in the emergency room that don't pay.
Socialized medicine isn't a panacea. The total healthcare budget is then in government hands, competing for money along with welfare and roads, defense and deforestation. Just a couple of stories, plenty more to see if you look.
It’s a serious problem: Massachusetts boasts that 98 percent of its residents have health insurance, but the state is stricken by the highest health care costs in the country.
Legally, phone records aren't yours, they belong to the phone company. There isn't a fourth amendment problem with the government obtaining those under current law.
Actual listening to phone conversations apparently takes a warrant, so that fourth amendment concern is covered.
And while you are focusing on the fourth amendment and applications in criminal law, don't overlook Article II of the Constitution and the resulting powers there as applied to national security - not criminal procedure.
There is a lot more to read in the Constitution than just the fourth amendment, and more to read in general.
Well, he's had his passport revoked, is being hunted around the world, and is being vilified in almost all public media.
Snowden isn't being hunted around the world because his passport is revoked. He is in Russia. Snowden isn't being vilified in "almost all public media." It is quite the reverse - he is being hailed as a hero by Chinese, Russians, many Europeans, and others across the world.
Well, at least he took refuge in Russia. What use do they have for four laptops full of NSA secrets?
This report comes after the newspaper wrote on 22 April, 2013 that Russian fighters had made dummy attacks close to Swedish territory during the Easter weekend.
Snowden IS a US citizen, his state however, has forsaken him.
By no means. Forsaken means to abandon, or give up. The US hasn't done that, they have been trying to bring him back to the US the whole time.
they feel its within their rights to capture, torture, and murder "US citizens" that they feel are an "imminent threat"
Capture or kill, not torture or murder. I hadn't heard that Snowden had taken up arms against the US, or was directly aiding anyone who had. I doubt very much that he is subject to being killed, at least apart from possible judicial sentencing.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm curious - how many people did you think were really going to be confused by that, keeping in mind it was a politician speaking and they are prone to use symbolic language?
Don't kid yourself about European nations engaging in spying as well, including inside the US and their own neighbors.
Well, it looks like Snowden's actions continue to bear fruit in harming both the US and its allies. I suppose the US could start exposing the spying of various European countries occurring in the US as a "teachable moment." There is plenty of it going on. Of course that would probably result in considerable unpleasantness.
Whomever Snowden's handler is will probably receive a commendation. The Soviets tried for years to split the US and Europe, and never really managed it.
Iran has troops assisting the Syrian government. It has long had agents destabilizing Iran, Lebanon, and various Gulf countries. It trained and armed insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan so that they could attack coalition forces. It has repeatedly threatened to close the Arabian Gulf (aka Persian Gulf) to sea traffic. It is one of the leading sponsors of terrorism in the world. The Secretary General of the UN has rebuked them for their threats against Israel. And they are not being forthcoming on their nuclear weapons plans which include warheads for their long range missiles that are bringing Europe under threat. It continues arming Hezbollah to attack Israel with thousands of rockets. They are cooperating with Venezuela, training their army.
This doesn't cover everything, but there is clearly plenty of mischief making potential there.
three fifths of all other Persons
That was a provision to weaken the institution of slavery, which was established in the southern colonies prior to the formation of the United States, not a comment on the humanity of the slaves.
Had the slaves been counted fully it would have meant more representatives for southern states to vote in Congress. Had they not been counted at all, the southern states might not have ratified the constitution. Like many things in the constitution it was a compromise, but it ultimately served its purpose.
Besides which, I trust you heard that the abolitionist party in the US, the Republicans, was eventually able to get a president elected who then freed the slaves.
SLAVERY AND THE FOUNDERS
If you think that sounds like the US, you might want to think about reading from a wider range of sources since that is nonsense.
Simple question, did I, or did I not write this?: "The police call transcript and map are helpful, as is various aspects of the other material.
The top two links in my second post to you make much of the previous post reasonably clear. My suggestion is to open the map in one web browser, and the transcript in another, and simply read.
The racial slur used by Martin? Shown in the third link which shows that it was testified to in open court by the woman he was speaking to on the phone during the incident.
Witness: Trayvon Called George Zimmerman A ‘Creepy-A**,’ ‘White, Kill-My-Neighbors Cracker’
From the police call, Martin was ahead of Zimmerman and had disappeared. From the map it is clear that Martin could have continued to his home if he didn't want a confrontation. He didn't do that. Why? Maybe his interest in martial arts fighting, fight club like activities, drug use, burglaries, and other activities might indicate the trajectory he was on, figuratively which acted out literally?
The rest of the links tend to show the prosecution's case falling apart. Even their own witnesses are undermining it. Many of the witnesses are providing evidence in Zimmerman's favor, although not all. And that isn't addressing some of the prosecution's questionable behavior before the trial.
What the jury will do is the biggest mystery here.
Why would he need to tell police in the future (when they arrived) where he was, if he just told the dispatcher to tell the police he'd meet them at the mailboxes? Because he wasn't going to be back at his vehicle by the mailboxes. He was going to lead them straight to Martin, and to do that, he needed to find Martin and possibly detain him until police arrived.
There are plenty of reasons why he might want to be contacted by the police when they were nearing the designated meeting place, such as the possibility of them arriving sooner than expected while Zimmerman was still traveling to that point. That way he could coordinate with them.
Do you have any actual evidence for Zimmerman intending to detain Martin? That didn't appear to be his intent during the call, nor with his behavior prior to the call. So far it looks like you have a pet theory not supported by evidence.
One was a female friend of Martin - the one that was on the phone with him during the incident, the other was a witness to the assault. You might be projecting. Ask yourself why you think they are biased? Is it just because the evidence looks bad for Martin?
Your view about "insurmountable barriers" is interesting. Sometimes one's political views form the basis for that, and no amount of evidence helps.
Here you go, knock yourself out. The police call transcript and map are helpful, as is various aspects of the other material.
Map and timeline of incident
Trayvon Martin shooting death -- initial police reports and '911' call transcript
Witness: Trayvon Called George Zimmerman A ‘Creepy-A**,’ ‘White, Kill-My-Neighbors Cracker’
Zimmerman trial blockbuster — Eyewitness says Trayvon on top punching Mixed Martial Arts style
Zimmerman Trial Day 5 – Analysis & Video – State’s own witnesses undercut theory of guilt
Zimmerman Trial Day 6 – Analysis & Video – State’s witness Chris Serino seriously undermines charge
Zimmerman Update Exclusive — Mid-Day 8 — State Wins Evidentiary Battle, Loses Testimony War
Zimmerman Case: Experts Call State’s Scream Claims “Absurd” “Ridiculous” and “Imaginary Stuff”
Zimmerman Prosecution’s Voice Expert admits: “This is not really good evidence”
GMA Shows Exclusive Images Of George Zimmerman’s Head Injuries From Night Of Trayvon’s Death
Autopsy results show Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles
Trayvon Martin's legal troubles reportedly covered up by police
Has State Opened Door to Defense Introducing Martin Fight Video?
Zimmerman judge excludes Trayvon Martin fighting, social media and marijuana use
Lest we forget: NBC News Apologizes for Editing George Zimmerman's 911 Call (Which falsely mad Zimmerman appear to be racist.)
Zimmerman Case: The Five Principles of the Law of Self Defense
Martin had broken contact with Zimmerman while Zimmerman was on the phone to the police. Zimmerman had agreed to meet the police that were dispatched to the site and was on his way when Martin confronted and assaulted Zimmerman. Martin had previous used a racial slur to describe Zimmerman. It was Martin's choice to confront Zimmerman. Since he was ahead of Zimmerman, Martin could have continued on his way to his house instead of confronting Zimmerman.
Witness: Trayvon Called George Zimmerman A ‘Creepy-A**,’ ‘White, Kill-My-Neighbors Cracker’
Zimmerman trial blockbuster — Eyewitness says Trayvon on top punching Mixed Martial Arts style
MARTIN WAS NOT WALKING AROUND IN A PLACE WHERE HE SHOULD NOT BE.
Martin was behaving in a way that a neighborhood watch volunteer (Zimmerman) found to be suspicious, which caused him to call the police, and agreed to meet the dispatched officers when they arrived. Martin described Zimmerman with a racial slur, then confronted and attacked Zimmerman.
Witness: Trayvon Called George Zimmerman A ‘Creepy-A**,’ ‘White, Kill-My-Neighbors Cracker’
Zimmerman trial blockbuster — Eyewitness says Trayvon on top punching Mixed Martial Arts style
But Zimmerman was armed and deliberately sought a confrontation with him, not the other way around.
No, what Zimmerman did was observe Martin from a distance and call the police, he didn't seek to confront Martin. It was Martin that described Zimmerman with a racial slur, confronted and attacked Zimmerman.
Witness: Trayvon Called George Zimmerman A ‘Creepy-A**,’ ‘White, Kill-My-Neighbors Cracker’
Zimmerman trial blockbuster — Eyewitness says Trayvon on top punching Mixed Martial Arts style
You're right, Martin wasn't a perfect angel.
Has State Opened Door to Defense Introducing Martin Fight Video?
Zimmerman judge excludes Trayvon Martin fighting, social media and marijuana use
Zimmerman trial blockbuster — Eyewitness says Trayvon on top punching Mixed Martial Arts style
From what I've read, it corresponds to the 911 transcript. The operator tried to get him to back off.
I think you need to reread that transcript again. Zimmerman had agreed to meet the police officers that had been dispatched to the site. Martin confronted and assaulted Zimmerman after that. Since he was ahead of Zimmerman and on his way home, if Marin had continued on his way he would have been home instead of assaulting Zimmerman, which led to his being shot.
Map and timeline of incident
Trayvon Martin shooting death -- initial police reports and '911' call transcript
Dispatcher: Are you following him? [2:24]
Zimmerman: Yeah. [2:25]
Dispatcher:OK.We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]
Zimmerman: OK. [2:28] (wind noises heard)
Dispatcher:Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]
Zimmerman:George. He ran.
Dispatcher:Alright, George, what’s your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman.
...
Dispatcher: Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then they go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]
...
Dispatcher: OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]
Zimmerman: Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]
...
Dispatcher: OK, no problem. I’ll let them know to call you when they’re in the area. [4:02]
Zimmerman:Thanks.
Dispatcher: You’re welcome.
Call ends 4:07
The trial seems to be going strongly in Zimmerman's favor, of course juries are unpredictable.
Witness: Trayvon Called George Zimmerman A ‘Creepy-A**,’ ‘White, Kill-My-Neighbors Cracker’
Zimmerman trial blockbuster — Eyewitness says Trayvon on top punching Mixed Martial Arts style
Zimmerman Trial Day 5 – Analysis & Video – State’s own witnesses undercut theory of guilt
Zimmerman Trial Day 6 – Analysis & Video – State’s witness Chris Serino seriously undermines charge
Zimmerman Update Exclusive — Mid-Day 8 — State Wins Evidentiary Battle, Loses Testimony War
Has State Opened Door to Defense Introducing Martin Fight Video?
Zimmerman judge excludes Trayvon Martin fighting, social media and marijuana use
Zimmerman Case: The Five Principles of the Law of Self Defense
Lest we forget:
Unfortunately Turkey is heading in the opposite direction, towards becoming an Islamic state. The Islamists in power have seriously weakened the Turkish army so there is little likelihood that it will be able to step in again to restore secular government. This might be a more or less permanent change.
If you actually followed the discussion, it was about the healthcare plan in Massachusetts originally passed by then Governor Romney.
I'm not sure how you came up with "non-profit and single payer" as being the topic. Is this one of your observations from being on "planet earth?"
If you think that single payer systems don't have struggles, including price, you aren't paying attention.
There is more than one way to pay for some things. NHS does well in many respects, and overall Britons seem to be reasonably happy with it, but there are problems there, as there are in Canada, and other government run programs.
Don't leave patients in ambulances to hit A&E targets, hospitals told
NHS starves 1,165 to death
NHS waiting times getting longer due to cuts, health chiefs warn
Surgeons raise alarm over waiting
NHS waiting times 'rise by 6 per cent for routine operations'
NHS Accident And Emergency Waiting Times Reach Nine-Year High
The frightening truth: NHS managers are incentivised to ignore problems
The problem is that the people wanted socialized medicine and we got an insurance scam.
No, "the people" didn't want socialized medicine. That is why the bill didn't come close to that, in the first place.
The real problem is that healthcare costs too much in the first place. You can't just insurance that away. What we really need is for the federal government to tell the whole crooked industry, "Just one more $2 ahh stick or $8 tylenol and we nationalize the whole damned thing!".
Using price controls to set the price below economic costs has a predicable outcome. You aren't just paying for the $.01 or less of wood in the stick, or the pill. You are also paying for facilities cost, utilities, staff, and likely part of the time of the nurse that might fetch it, as well as the doctor. And don't leave out the cost to treat people in the emergency room that don't pay.
Socialized medicine isn't a panacea. The total healthcare budget is then in government hands, competing for money along with welfare and roads, defense and deforestation. Just a couple of stories, plenty more to see if you look.
NHS starves 1,165 to death
Don't leave patients in ambulances to hit A&E targets, hospitals told
5 painful health-care lessons from Massachusetts - June 16, 2010
Massachusetts struggles to rein in health care costs - Apr 30, 2011
It’s a serious problem: Massachusetts boasts that 98 percent of its residents have health insurance, but the state is stricken by the highest health care costs in the country.
Danger ahead? Massachusetts health costs are rising – fast. - February 9, 2013
Massachusetts health care costs out of control as ObamaCare provision hits small business - Mar 4, 2013
Legally, phone records aren't yours, they belong to the phone company. There isn't a fourth amendment problem with the government obtaining those under current law.
Actual listening to phone conversations apparently takes a warrant, so that fourth amendment concern is covered.
And while you are focusing on the fourth amendment and applications in criminal law, don't overlook Article II of the Constitution and the resulting powers there as applied to national security - not criminal procedure.
There is a lot more to read in the Constitution than just the fourth amendment, and more to read in general.
Well, he's had his passport revoked, is being hunted around the world, and is being vilified in almost all public media.
Snowden isn't being hunted around the world because his passport is revoked. He is in Russia. Snowden isn't being vilified in "almost all public media." It is quite the reverse - he is being hailed as a hero by Chinese, Russians, many Europeans, and others across the world.
Well, at least he took refuge in Russia. What use do they have for four laptops full of NSA secrets?
Russia warns Ireland it will retaliate in spy row
Ireland Is Training Base for Russian Spies
As many Russian spies in UK today as in Cold War: Soviet defector
Canadian navy officer sentenced to 20 years for being Russian spy
10 in US held as spies for Russia
Russian spies in Australia at 'near Cold War level'
Germany jails Russian spy couple
Belgian diplomat suspected of being Russian spy
Finnish academic charged of aiding Russian spies
Spies in Sweden mostly from China, Russia, Iran
Estonia shaken by new Russian spy scandal
Georgia: Russian Spy Ring Smashed in Tbilisi -- Officials
Spain-Russia spy row leads to diplomats' expulsion
Russian warplanes breach NATO airspace - British and Norwegian jets intercepted Russian military aircraft ... close to the U.K. and Finland
Russian spy plane flies by Swedish military drill
This report comes after the newspaper wrote on 22 April, 2013 that Russian fighters had made dummy attacks close to Swedish territory during the Easter weekend.
RAF catches Russian bombers in UK airspace ... hunting down British Vanguard boats in a return to Cold War tactics
UK jets shadow Russian bombers
Russian bombers’ secret UK missions ‘not a friendly act’
Russian subs stalk Trident in echo of Cold War -
Russian around - A DESPERATE hunt was on last night for a Russian nuclear submarine lurking off the coast of Britain.
Snowden IS a US citizen, his state however, has forsaken him.
By no means. Forsaken means to abandon, or give up. The US hasn't done that, they have been trying to bring him back to the US the whole time.
they feel its within their rights to capture, torture, and murder "US citizens" that they feel are an "imminent threat"
Capture or kill, not torture or murder. I hadn't heard that Snowden had taken up arms against the US, or was directly aiding anyone who had. I doubt very much that he is subject to being killed, at least apart from possible judicial sentencing.
Allow me to draw your attention to this line from: Statement from Edward Snowden in Moscow
"Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. "
Maybe you can change that last line to: Read, then post.
I think you'll have to be a bit more specific than that.