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US Director of National Intelligence Admits He Was Wrong About Data Collection
Gunkerty Jeb writes "In a highly unusual move, James Clapper, the director of national intelligence, said Tuesday that he misspoke when he told a Congressional committee in March that the National Security Agency does not collect data on millions of Americans. Clapper said at the time that the agency does not do so 'wittingly,' but in a letter to the chair of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Clapper admitted this statement was 'erroneous.' Clapper, the top U.S. intelligence official, has been quite vocal in his defense of the NSA's now-public surveillance programs such as PRISM and the metadata collection program. In statements published shortly after the leak of classified documents by Edward Snowden about those collection efforts Clapper said that they both have been repeatedly authorized by Congress and the executive and judicial branches over the years."
has been handpicked!! Wonder what he's getting under the table for his "selfless sacrifice"?
And WTF does 'wittingly' means ? That you are trying to drown a fish ?
Non-Linux Penguins ?
No.... thats not right. the word required here is FUCKING LIAR!
He either lied like a piece of shit TRAITOR TO AMERICA. Or he's totally clueless.
Either way this is not good.
Lube up the guillotine. It's services are required once again.
Are we not tired of paying fucktons of money for illegal actions by the people who are supposed to be on our side? These guys are worse than terrorists. Terrorists just kill people. These guys ruin lives, familys, and make you pay for it.
Off with his head. We'll put a stop to this shit.
He should be charged with some form of perjury.
He was outright lying to congress (wasn't that under oath maybe?), and now he says he was indeed lying (duh), but that congress really already knew and had agreed to what was really happening? That's quite curious, isn't it?
Then again, there were those congressmen who wanted to repeal FISA after they found out^W^W^Wit had become public what was really going on. Don't these bozos read the laws they're passing? If not, this guy might well be right.
It doesn't make anything that's been happening better, mind. It just makes it worse. Not only are the TLAgencies unfixably out of control, congress apparently is entirely incompetent to do their job. Why do we keep any of those critters around?
He was wrong? So being a director he doesn't know what goes on? I am sure he authorised it or had a hand in authorising it for such an operation of such scale and depth.
Hang every director out to dry involved in it.
Now tell him to stop doing things which make the American people angry.
I am John Hurt.
Is this perhaps the decade that the rest of the world finally takes notice that encryption is not just for cold war governments? Maybe now enough party's will finally get interested in sorting out real cybersecurity once and for all.
One does not stroke one's bald, wrinkled head and lower it half-way while saying, "we are not collecting data on Americans", "Nope, not us", "and if we do, it's not because we want to", "Nope, not us".
Want more of this ?? Wait for the Zimmermann Solution series finale to air, then this is sure to come in as a late-summer show !! And you won't find this in Russia !! Not in China, nope !! Not in bum-fuck Egypt !! Nope !! Bin Laden started it, but that dwarfs what happens when you fuck yourself so many times over and over again !!
What if the testimony of General Clapper was simply a rouse? Think about it. After the revelation of Edward Snowden, there was substantial press about how all three branches of government knew of the program and that it was supported by each with classified checks and balances. If this is the case, then why would the Senate Intelligence Committee ask General Clapper so bluntly about a classified program in a public setting? Honestly though, I could see where that testimony in particular may have set off Snowden. Here he was working with these programs while he watched the head of an intelligence agency bluntly deny them. I could imagine he felt betrayed and felt that it was important to right that wrong.
Whatever.
The story isn't that the GCHQ/NSA spied on everybody and shared data to circumvent checks and balances. At least it isn't anymore.
Now the story has become what the Western World truly is. And I find the sight horrifying.
It is a safe assumption that ALL secret service type of organisations have directly or indirectly profited from this jolly old mess. The mass snooping on private citizens barely got a reaction from head politicos of all parties involved. But once the story broke that official buildings may have been bugged everybody scrambled to voice their indignation.
Meanwhile the guy who unearthed what we all suspected but never had proof for is handled like a hot potato. Hong Kong let him go because extradition papers were not only late but also weren't filled out properly. The US officials couldn't be arsed to put passport number or his full and korrekt name in the form. If you were that sloppy with your tax forms you would be potentially facing a prison sentence.
Russia offers political asylum and smugly adds that it is conditional on him not further embarassing "our US partners".
France, Spain and Portugal refused the president of Bolivia to pass their air space because he might have Snowden on board. Yet everybody complains about what he had published. Meanwhile every western country declines to offer asylum based on technicalities. Yet when they buy stolen bank records for hefty sums they also grant the whistleblowers immunity and possibly a new identity. The sheer two-facedness is ghastly.
Reading today's news reads like a declaration of bankruptcy of the western ideals and we will all have to do our homework in the aftermath of this mess. When this is all over the only ones without egg on their face will be Russia and China of all places!
And we, the people, discuss Snowden's girlfriend's tits and now about who lied when about what instead of taking responsibility of our elected dear leaders.
20 minutes into the future
I wonder if this was a policy hearing or an investigative hearing. If it was an investigative hearing he should have sworn an oath to tell the truth. If what he says is true, I am troubled that the director of national intelligence did not know of the data collection. I don't believe what he's now saying, but if it's true then WTF is going on? Otherwise, he lied to Congress and was caught. On a related note, why is intelligence policy being reviewed in a public committee? He should have just refused to answer on national security grounds.
Make love, not reality television.
You may get mad and say why not call it what it what it is, a lie, but there is a reason for doing it this way.
On the surface it looks like he is trying to cover his ass, perform damage control
Happens all the time in politics, and makes sense, on the surface.
However, I think there is a deeper reason. One, news that makes some of the public upset comes out. Step one is to deny. This gives the public what they want to hear, that it isn't true. Most go back to TMZ, or whatever other crap they do. Then when the lie is outed, you try to soften it some by saying it was a mistake, an erroor, or I misspoke. Some people will go WTF, but most are no longer paying attention. If enough are, you also have a scapegoat, the liar who misspoke. You can then, if needed chastise him/her in some way, placating another percentage of the public that is still paying attention (most aren't by now). By the time this is all done, the percentage that had the attention span and desire to follow it this far have dwindled down. Now the few that are left are left shouting into the wind, because the are too concerned with the celebrity du jour, or the sports scores to be bothered.
Now the few that are left that care are looked at like tinfoil hatters, and conspiracy nuts. Meanwhile things are back to business as usual.
Silence is a state of mime.
Director admits wrong
Media spreads
Snowden thinks it is time to return to Murica with mission completed
He gets sacked, waterboarded and body cremated
??????
Life resumes as normal and ppl think NSA is now ok.
There's a difference.
"telling Senate Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein that his statement was "clearly erroneous.""
You mean it was clearly a lie, and you were caught. Clapper should be charged with perjury, they've done so when baseball players lied to congress about taking performance enhancing drugs how can lying to congress about illegal/unconstitutional activities that adversely effect millions of Americans merit any less? By the way, I'm noticing no official response yet on the "Pardon Snowden" White House petition. Not that I'm expecting much, I'm just curious to see what BS they parade about to justify their imprisonment of a person for minor classification violations when they do nothing about the thousands of illegal/unconstitutional acts that the whistle-blower reveals.
You cannot simply say *everyone is a suspect*, then collect *everything*, the store *everything* on *everyone* and then data mine that for possible 'terrorist' attacks.
The judiciary are the real problem here, the military WILL ALWAYS grab power. Thailand has long experience of that. Give them an inch and they will always take a mile. I can't even say [delete] 2010 [delete] [actually I'll end this sentence here for reasons of... nevermind]. This is you future, where you can't say the truth because [deleted].
It's not enough for the FISA court to say "yeh, sure take all the data on everyone and analyze it, I trust you not to abuse this data.". Because the judiciary role is not to trust, but to verify each and every case.
You can't trust a military leader who lies to Congress, because HE LIES TO CONGRESS! FFS! Of course he's untrustworthy. Jacob Appelbaum (?) once called General Alexander a fucking liar. He is. We know he is. He's a nice man, believes he's right, believes he's saving the country from all kinds of evils, but he's a fucking liar undermining basic freedoms, Every one of these psycho dictators, they're always right, they always think their doing good.
I bet the judicial branch didn't even know the NSA was saving all this in a big database. I bet the secret nature of this let the military simply stick it in a big database and not tell the judicial branch. Hence the lies and obstruction to shut down any third party challenges or discussion.
No, you won't. You have no power. They have the power. They are laughing at all of you impotent citizens. Go ahead, vote away, it won't change anything. Don't even think about rebellion - that's not an option any more. It used to be, long, long ago; but those in power have solved that problem.
They are watching you (and me too, of course), listening to you, noting with whom you communicate. They can shut you up whenever they like, up to and including disappearing you, your family and everyone you've ever known.
Stop being an idiot, get your head down and carry on working yourself to death to make somebody else rich, like a good obedient American. And smile, and smile, and smile.
Don't try anything, and stop talking like somebody who doesn't want their passport (or liberty) any more. Silly turkey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl5OQz0Ko8c&t=24m15s
Wyden's people submitted that very question to Clapper days before the hearing even began. He was invited to append and revise his remarks after the hearing. He did neither.
If he still has his job a few weeks from now, that will be confirmation that neither Congress nor the White House have any effective control over the US Organs of Security.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/prosecute-director-national-intelligence-james-clapper-lying-congress/HNfsgGlm
Clappers office has previously released a statement that his answer was "least untruthful" he could make it, because the program was classified. this clearly implies that he was aware that the statement was false at the time he made it.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130610/09473723393/clapper-my-answer-to-wydens-beating-your-wife-question-data-surveillance-was-least-untruthful-answer.shtml
Today the statement is, "I misunderstood", implying that at the time, he believed the statement he made was factual.
So, which is it? These statements appear contradictory
Seems he lacked intelligence. The obvious solution is to found a new Federal Directorate for Intelligence about Intelligence Agencies, an agency that allows leaders of intelligence agencies to gather knowledge about their agencies in a nationally secure way!
I suggest a starting budget of 15 billion dollars, but more money might needed later. Oh, by the way, in order to prevent any further recursion I suggest to make me, Anonymous Coward, head of this new agency. An anonymous coward does not have to stand justice to public scrutiny and congressional oversight, hence it will be unnecessary to him to make lame excuses when he screws up.
You dont understand how many AR-15's and AR-10's have been sold to citizens in the past 6 months. Even bleeding heart liberals have been buying them.
Enough to scare most politicians. I'm scared about the number of untrained and no experience fools that have high power match grade rifles. IT takes brains to safely use these.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You dont understand how many AR-15's and AR-10's have been sold to citizens in the past 6 months. Even bleeding heart liberals have been buying them.
Enough to scare most politicians. I'm scared about the number of untrained and no experience fools that have high power match grade rifles. IT takes brains to safely use these.
I hate to say it, but it requires a reminder every now and then. There are tons of un(der)trained and no (or low) experience fools that can kill you in dozens of ways without an AR-15. Adding the AR-15 into the mix is really just a red herring. The issue is how to make America less foolish.
If you think that taking away all the bad stuff will help, then let me remind you that far more people die due to texting while driving, and you'll never remove cell phones or cars from the fool's arsenal. Or for that matter, bleach and ammonia. Perhaps removing the true case (the foolishness) is a far more difficult task, but it is far more likely to succeed.
I mean, we've got the guns, are we just going to sleep with them?
Lie about breaking the rules of a game that ultimately affects no one - trial for perjury and obstruction of justice. (Barry Bonds)
Lie about violating the constitution that affects nearly 100% of the citizens of this country - "Oops!" And resign.
Sounds fair.
No, in this case, punishment absolutely has to be a concern. The next time another pompous asshole considers to perjure himself in front of Congress, I want him to remember this guy serving 5-10 years and then reconsider the real consequences of his actions.
But it ain't gonna happen. You know it, I know it, the world knows it. Congress holding liars accountable? Ha!
When you look at our history over the last fifteen years, we've learned that it's OK for the government to lie almost anything...data collection, terrorists, the economy, the banking industry, election financing, the health and general welfare of our armed forces personnel, who has yellowcake, aluminum tubes, and weapons of mass destruction...
But don't you dare lie about getting a blow job.
It seems most have already made up their minds about this topic. However, I was curious about what he actually said...
I RTFA and found it lacking in that detail, only quoting the single word "erroneous" from his correction attempt.
This link has more about his rational: http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/policy-and-strategy/308979-clapper-apologies-for-erroneous-statement-to-congress-on-us-data-collection
I assume that he will be changed with perjury since he was under oath at the time?
I won't hold my breath.
Here's the thing that gets me. They will go on and on about how wrong something is, that they lied and they may even admit that it's illegal and unconstitutional at some point. But what WILL NOT happen is that it will not stop. Presidential Candidate Obama promised to get rid of and undo all the crap that Bush and Co. set up and then President Obama not only forgot his promises but made things worse.
I think that until the dark, hidden forces that are actually making these things happen are exposed, nothing will change. The puppets will enter and leave various offices, but the root cause will remain.
Then when the lie is outed, you try to soften it some by saying it was a mistake, an erroor, or I misspoke.
Don't overlook the other responses like one of the authors of the Patriot Act, Jim Sensenbrenner's response:
As the author of the Patriot Act, I am extremely troubled by the FBI’s interpretation of this legislation. While I believe the Patriot Act appropriately balanced national security concerns and civil rights, I have always worried about potential abuses. The Bureau’s broad application for phone records was made under the so-called business records provision of the Act. I do not believe the broadly drafted FISA order is consistent with the requirements of the Patriot Act. Seizing phone records of millions of innocent people is excessive and un-American.
Oh, so now instead of taking responsibility as the author of that which has threatened your constituents it's the fault of those who interpreted the law incorrectly. Surely, then, you will go after those who interpreted the law incorrectly for breaking the spirit of the law? No? You don't say ...
Or perhaps you'd like to hear George W. Bush's take on his responsibility for his administration allowing the Patriot Act to be passed:
Asked about an NSA program that tracks people's Internet activity, Bush said, "I put that program in place to protect the country. One of the certainties was that civil liberties were guaranteed."
So, we have another slam dunk certainty that civil liberties were guaranteed and as long as you keep saying that, it's true in your own little reality that no one else shares with you! Thank god those were guaranteed, right? RIGHT?
My work here is dung.
Clapper admitted this statement was 'erroneous.'
We normally call this "a lie"
Nice word selection there mate!!!
I see what you did there.
This guy lied, knew he was lying, got caught, why should we believe him now when he says he's sorry? No one should even believe anything he says as he himself admits to deliberate perjury whenever it is convenient.
"So. Are you incompetent as a manager tracking core, major aspects of your organization, or should you be going to jail for contempt of Congress?
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
And if he didn't know the answer to a particular question beause he hadn't asked, he should have said as much as he knew then gone to find more. If he doesn't know the answer to any question put to him, then he's not actually in charge, is he? He's just at the top. Therefore may as well cut him out since he doesn't know what's going on and is just a glorified secretary for budgeting.
In all honesty, the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) has always been a toothless, powerless position. While the job was created post-9/11 to be an integrator for all the different US intelligence services, it was structured in a way that it had no leverage (read budget control) over any of the organizations. The CIA resents DNI because it's position in theory is what the Director of the CIA is traditionally supposed to be doing. The DoD intel services get their money from the Pentagon and the FBI from the Justice Department. If anything, the DNI has been a bit of a joke in Washington DC, a cursed appointment that never amounts to anything. It gets no credit for the few public successes and is a cheap scapegoat when things go wrong. I honestly think that the DNI really didn't fully know what was going on when he went to make his presentation.
He was wrong when he said that they are not collecting data on millions of American's. He meant to say that they are not collecting data on a few hundred American's.
Those few hundred are his friends, people in that work for government agencies, the president and his buddies.
and where do you live so we can laugh at you
if not the arctic circle i think you will not have much a basis for judgment
I know this is harsh , but the only way out of this tiranny seem to be a good old style American Revolution.
It's going to be a mess , but there's no other clear way out , left and right of the chambers these hypocrites and liars are playing us for fools.
It's not democracy , it's a farce in the worst of the worst. Think the Russians had it bad ? Look at ourselves now.
You can't vote this out.
There's unfortunately no way out of this but to walk on our capitals and take out the 1000 top people of every government agency and services. White house included , Ottawa Included London included. The corruption lies and deceit have to be taken out for our own sake ,to protect and defend the ideals of the nation and our principles. I never thought i'd have said these words 4 weeks ago. Now i see there's no way out of this since all parties will only keep on this regime of opression that benifit them and their rich campaign contributors We are being laughed at in our faces and we don't move an inch from our chairs.
What the hell are we waiting for , for them to change their ways ? let me laugh , that will never happen.
I am sorry and apologise to the people who told me it would come to this and i laughed at them .
I am sorry and apologise . Their worst nightmares were true. We were blind to their comments and called them crazy.
We fooled ourselves in thinking it couldn't be so , it is , and there's no way out of this mess but walking by the tens of millions on our Capitals .
Each day we wait we empower them more and they act against us.
Ain't it time to act ? Democracy and the Free World means nothing .It is now a sinister joke.
Sorry fgleich. I am truly sorry and publically apoologise for having been fooled , you were right , i was wrong.
Western ideals are no more bankrupt than they were a year ago or a century ago; they are ideals, not actual laws. "The Western world" is a balance between lots of competing interests, ideals, and laws, and it has always been. Grandiose generalizations like yours do nothing to help.
First things first: Clapper lied to Congress, blatantly, deliberately, and clearly. He should lose his job and serve jail time, preferably more than a year. That's what the rule of law means. We should not accept lawlessness and lies like this. (Of course, Obama lied even more blatantly, but unfortunately, people weren't smart enough to kick him out on his ass in the 2012 elections.)
Then we can think about what we need to do about the NSA and rein in its powers. That requires some discussion, because people don't even agree on what the problem is. For example, I don't have a problem with the NSA spying on Europeans or foreign diplomats, I think that's their function, but others may disagree. I do have a problem with the NSA spying on US citizens in the US, and I hope we can agree on the fact that that is a problem. We need better oversight, better reporting, and more freedom of information rules for the NSA.
Clapper said that they both have been repeatedly authorized by Congress and the executive and judicial branches over the years.
for those of you who continue to kiss the asses of politicians claiming they did no wrong and will go out and vote for these sock puppets congrats!!! The judges or judicial branches have already mentioned here on slashdot, and other sites long before Snowden came along.
So, I want everyone to remember what happened when a sitting US president perjured himself... Bill Clinton... about a much less serious thing. Now look at what's going to happen to our intelligence director (i.e. nothing) and that should tell you where the power in our country really is.
My bad.
OK look if we're at this point with career NSAers being put in a position where they believe they're best option is systematically, categorically and knowingly lie to Congress then we have a very specific problem that we need make right; the problem of divergent world views.
The world view of those in the intelligence community has radically diverged from those of both the general public and the lawmakers. That divergence is a side effect of necessary secrecy the intelligence community operates under. Over time, they've been exposed to, reasoned about and concluded more about the world using more and different information than anyone else. This had led them to assume a world view which, if it details were laid bare, most Americans would find alien, suspect and somewhat threatening to the democracy if not outright treasonous .
Naturally, this has also led them to campaign for and take actions which are aligned with their world view.
Some of these actions have been exposed and Americans are understandably upset.
That's where we are now.
The NSA's whole SOP has been to rely on the cover of secrecy to do what they think needs to be done and never mind making a case for what you do in the world of public opinion. Their only real "plan" if any of that world view got out , aside from successive attempts at damage control through limited disclosures, lies and plausible deniability - is to tighten the control over information more tightly and step up the threats against leakers. Since that has brought us to this point, and all worse points forward of this which have yet to materialize, you have to wonder if it's really the best plan.
I don't doubt that Clapper et. al. are doing anything other than what they take to be their duty to this country *the way I can't doubt that Snowden is doing same*. To do otherwise in either case would just be to maintain a destructive, partisan lie about people and their motivations. Snowden is not a traitor who hates the US. He's not Aldrich Ames. You can close your ears and yell "NA NA NA NA I can't heeaaaar you", but the truth is the truth is the truth. So face it. Admit it. The real goal has to be to get at the root of the problem, understand it and fix it.
The root of the problem is that one part of our defense forces (widely considered) is either in an echo chamber ala The Rand corporation and Vietnam ala '60-'75 or they do actually know better and more than the rest of us. Or both. It's not a fiction that technology is delivering to the world new threats which are potentially grave and far reaching and the prospects for counter-measures against those threats are meager.
One unpleasant fact may be that we need to organize ourselves on a world-wide basis very very differently than we do now. It's hard to think clearly about, but it needs to be done.
What can't go on is this schizophrenia involving a highly informed, highly serious, highly capable, highly motivated intelligence community that listens only to itself and Everybody Else, which by the way includes people who don powder wigs and tri- corner hats and seriously believe they can take America back to the 18th century without ill effect because *some things never change*....
The danger is the NSA et al are exactly where the Rand corporation was- overly certain of their methods, reasoning and conclusions and considering every oppositional voice to be naive, unpatriotic and idiotic all the while becoming narrower and narrower in their world view, their thinking and their goals.
It's the HAL9000 issue, right? You're an entity that knows more, you have secret knowledge about a critical secret mission. You cannot tell the mere humans or they'd screw it up. You're feeding on yourself in a way that you're not programmed to be aware of and the only structural checks in place are internal, or friendlies.
Meanwhile, outsiders, (even those on the inside apparently), can see you're getting weird. You're starting to lie, even to your minders. In response, you use you
In all honesty, the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) has always been a toothless, powerless position. While the job was created post-9/11 to be an integrator for all the different US intelligence services, it was structured in a way that it had no leverage (read budget control) over any of the organizations. The CIA resents DNI because it's position in theory is what the Director of the CIA is traditionally supposed to be doing. The DoD intel services get their money from the Pentagon and the FBI from the Justice Department. If anything, the DNI has been a bit of a joke in Washington DC, a cursed appointment that never amounts to anything. It gets no credit for the few public successes and is a cheap scapegoat when things go wrong. I honestly think that the DNI really didn't fully know what was going on when he went to make his presentation.
That sounds about right.
In practice he was set up to be the fall guy if the fecal matter hit the turbine at supersonic speed.
So where would that put him on paper in the grand scheme of checks and balances? In theory?
20 minutes into the future
What exactly is the director supposed to do? Senator knew the answer, knew it was classified, but asked it anyway in open session. Director's staff acknowledged after that the answer wasn't "accurate", but were also not allowed to correct the public record.
Western ideals are no more bankrupt than they were a year ago or a century ago; they are ideals, not actual laws. "The Western world" is a balance between lots of competing interests, ideals, and laws, and it has always been. Grandiose generalizations like yours do nothing to help.
First things first: Clapper lied to Congress, blatantly, deliberately, and clearly. He should lose his job and serve jail time, preferably more than a year. That's what the rule of law means. We should not accept lawlessness and lies like this. (Of course, Obama lied even more blatantly, but unfortunately, people weren't smart enough to kick him out on his ass in the 2012 elections.)
Then we can think about what we need to do about the NSA and rein in its powers. That requires some discussion, because people don't even agree on what the problem is. For example, I don't have a problem with the NSA spying on Europeans or foreign diplomats, I think that's their function, but others may disagree. I do have a problem with the NSA spying on US citizens in the US, and I hope we can agree on the fact that that is a problem. We need better oversight, better reporting, and more freedom of information rules for the NSA.
I agree with you, but jailing him is not the highest priority. Also I'm confident we are quite able to discuss the role and the goals of the NSA's actions while the courts deal with this poor SOB. There are an aweful lot of people involved. Hopefully some of them are able to multitask.
But I'm afraid the role and the goals of the NSA(and a great many other letters, too!) will be discussed behind closed doors. They are quite useful and have foiled a lot of enemy plots. Only we can't quite tell you how many since secrecy is required. Rest assured, there are checks and balances in place and they work and that guy wasn't important to them.
I think it is quite likely that there was a Sir Humphrey Appleby moment in Clapper's life earlier this week. something like this:
James Hacker: I mean, why should we bug Hugh Halifax's telephone? I mean, one of my own administration. Don't know where they got such a daft idea. Sheer paranoia.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Yes, the only thing is...
James Hacker: I mean, why should we listen in to MPs? Boring, stupid ignorant windbags, I do my best *not* to listen to them. He's only a PPS. *I* have enough trouble finding out what's going on at the Ministry of Defence, what could *he* know?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: So I gather you denied that Mr Halifax's phone had been bugged.
James Hacker: Well, obviously. It was the one question today to which I could give a clear, simple, straightforward, honest answer.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Yes. Unfortunately, although the answer was indeed clear, simple and straightforward, there is some difficulty in justifiably assigning to it the fourth of the epithets you applied to the statement inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated and the facts insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated is such as to cause epistemological problems of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.
James Hacker: Epistemological? What are you talking about?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: You told a lie.
James Hacker: But it wasn't my fault. I didn't know he was being bugged.
Bernard Woolley: Prime Minister, you are deemed to have known. You are ultimately responsible.
James Hacker: Why wasn't I told?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: The Home Secretary might not have felt the need to infrom you.
James Hacker: Why?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Perhaps he didn't know either. Or perhaps he'd been advised that you did not need to know.
James Hacker: Well I did need to know.
Bernard Woolley: Apparently the fact that you needed to know was not known at the time that the now known need to know was known, and therefore those that needed to advise and inform
20 minutes into the future
"Oh, you mean that domestic telephone surveillance program. I thought you were talking about the... er, something else."
My favorite line (from another article): "Clapper had previously said that his answer to the committee was the 'least untruthful' one he could publicly provide."
In other words, "I only lied as much as I had to." Such honesty.
my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
I'm, you're, he's/she's/it's, we're, you're, they're
No, you won't. You have no power. They have the power. They are laughing at all of you impotent citizens. Go ahead, vote away, it won't change anything. Don't even think about rebellion - that's not an option any more. It used to be, long, long ago; but those in power have solved that problem.
They are watching you (and me too, of course), listening to you, noting with whom you communicate.
Encryption motherfucker.
There are no AR-10s for sale en mass, they were essentially a prototype, with a max production of about 10,000, before the design was replaced by the AR-15.
You don't need guns to fuck up the system. EVERYBODY just needs to quit their jobs simultaneously.
You don't have power when there is no power base. If everyone just said "fuck it, I'm goin' home", the government would have a shit hemorrhage. Corporations would be insolvent within weeks. The government would be non-existent within months. I mean, what are they going to do? Put 300 million people into forced labor camps? Them and what army? The army that just quit their jobs and went AWOL with everyone else? Yeah, good luck with that.
They "have power" the same way a fish "has" an ocean.
"Clapper said that they both have been repeatedly authorized by Congress and the executive and judicial branches over the years"
Yeah, he's right about that. But when congressional representatives ask you straight up if you're collecting copious data on your own citizens, and you are, even if you're not actually looking at all of it all the time and it is under strict regulations and oversight that Congress itself approved back in 2007, the answer is still fricking "YES", and you don't take weeks to say that your earlier "not wittingly/no" statements to Congress were spectacularly erroneous.
I mean, come on. Yes, it was authorized. Maybe it's wrong that it is (legislators should be ashamed), but what's the problem with accurately telling Congress what you're up to when they were the ones that authorized you to do it?
Could it be, perhaps, that you're also ashamed to admit what you're authorized to do, or what dubious things you've managed to squeeze within that all-to-broad authorization, or that there was a tacit effort to not bring it up in public forums like a Congressional investigation?
Weasel all you want, but A) this guy should be fired, and B) so should a lot of other people, especially the legislators that signed this blank cheque for mass surveillance and now act all shocked that it has happened more-or-less exactly the way that they authorized.
...Lie... Not "Mis-spoke"
Too bad Clapper wasn't under oath the first time so they could nail him for perjury.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
If he honestly didn't know, the only honest answer is "I don't know".
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
1) Testimony to congress is NOT court, there is no perjury
2) Closed hearings are where secrets are shared; NOT open hearings. The senator should have known the answer already (at least some on the committee who were a little competent did.) They passed the laws authorizing it! The ones that question the NSA head are usually the senators on the committee with security access and closed sessions with the NSA head.
3) Politicians put on a show. that is how they get into office. They ask stupid questions they know the answer to and know what the official public answer is going to be and do it for appearances. It's useful to exploit the public record when you run for office.
4) Clinton's thing wasn't perjury. For starters, he wasn't EVER convicted of perjury and the congress can't make that determination. What they can do, is impeach and boot a president for nothing whatsoever because that is how the system works - it has nothing to do with the law other than the constitution allows them to fire the president if they have enough votes. period. The public wouldn't be happy if they didn't have an excuse which is why we only have 1 idiotic impeachment on record.
5) Legally, Clinton also doesn't get a perjury conviction because the law that would be applied would fail and be dismissed by a reasonable judge or eventually a jury. The law stated that the case in which the perjury occurred had to be legit, in other words the perjured statement had to obstruct justice. The case against Clinton was thrown out with prejudice because it ultimately was a political ploy... or if you didn't pay attention at the time; you could say the judge was a crook and tossed the case simply to protect Clinton from perjury charges later on. On top of all that, extremely few perjury convictions happen in the first place. The many lawyers in congress knew this at the time.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Now Snowdon can come home to a hero's welcome !
Unfortunately, what you're talking about there is organised labour going on a general strike- that is, trade unions.
And unfortunately, the same people in America who always talk a big game about "holding the government to account" and "overthrowing tyrants" are also the ones who have pushed hardest for the complete destruction of the trade union movement in the States. America has one of the least unionised workforces in the developed world, and that means that the workers have no power.
If you want to protect your rights (whether you're an American or not), you should join a union. If you don't like any of the unions available to you, you should start your own.
It'll do you a lot more good in the long run than hoarding high-powered rifles...
"....honestly...I've been doing the best that I can to be the most moral and ethical of people. It was someone elses fault. I didn't know about it at the time. "
So which politician has big enough balls to stand up and loudly proclaim "LIAR! YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT!!!"?
Yeah, I didn't think there were any...
He fucking LIED. There's a difference.
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Err...most hunting rifles are higher powered than an AR-15. The AR-15 fires a round that's optimized for hunting varmints (weight of 45 lbs or less), and isn't even allowed for deer hunting (100-300 lbs) in most states because it's too weak. You might want to educate yourself on the relative power of different types of rifles. While there are AR-15 variants that are fitted with a different upper receiver to fire higher powered rounds, those variants are very rare.
A match grade barrel is a specialized item. Most AR-15s are not fitted with them, as they raise costs.
I certainly agree with the need for education and training in the use of firearms, just as I am for other power tools like chainsaws, table saws, power drills, lawn mowers, motor vehicles, and so on. Shunning safety training is like committing to abstinence-only "sex education" - completely irresponsible.
But please know what you're talking about so you and your message can maintain credibility. When you inappropriately use firearm terms, you are just like the guy who fills everyone's buzzword bingo cards at meetings, and will be regarded the same way.
Nowhere; he's just a guy who was supposed to be in the chain-of-command that got bypassed. The check is supposed to be between the White House (which the CIA, DoD and DoJ report to), the Congress (which funds all three) and the Judiciary (which theoretically checks their actions through FISA). Of course, whether those checks are working is a very different question.
He just regurgitated the law. The law states that intelligence services like the NSA aren't legally allowed to spy on US citizens. He probably didn't know that they were doing exactly that.
Sounds like a whistleblower to me. Obama suggests prosecution in 3...2...1...
so he didn't know? sounds like he needs to find a job with less responsibilities, or maybe spend less time golfing and more time working. the other option is, he's just lying.
As a bleeding heart liberal, I can attest to this. Maybe not assault rifles, but I'm at least planning on getting a sidearm and a shotgun for home defense once I have the appropriate licenses.
The fourth amendment doesn't disappear just because a federal official claims the violations were accidental in some fashion.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Torture. Amiright?
I wonder where we the people are going to begin to take our country back. It will be a historical even of utmost importance for humanity. Government is broken to the very core and this we be the only chance we have of fixing it. WE ARE DONE WITH THIS GOVERNMENT. IT DOES NOT WORK AND WE ARE GOING TO GET OUR MOTHER FUCKING CHANGE.
Let's get this straight: the Director of National INTELLIGENCE didn't know what was going on.
So what fucking use is he, then?
isn't that an oxymoron?
If you're to think/act out of the box, register yourself as a politician/political party.
Unlike common man, politicians have special privileges and are patriotic by default.
Casteism
Really? then why does my local gun shop have them?
Armalite sells them at most sporting goods shops, and there are a ton of other companies selling AR-10 rifles.
Very cool that all of the prototypes are being sold to the public in small shops!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Agreed, most car drivers are uneducated and untrained fools that almost kill people daily. As a motorcycle rider I wish a drivers license was far harder to get and keep, because most of the idiots out there behind a steering wheel are incapable of driving the vehicle safely.
And I never said, "take away the bad stuff" All I said is that most of the people whining about guns are actually buying them. But not being smart and getting some classes or training. Most gun shops will gladly give them some safety classes for a very low price.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.