Slashdot Mirror
Edward Snowden Files For Political Asylum In Russia
vikingpower writes "The official Russian Press agency Interfax has the scoop: Edward Snowden asks for political asylum in Russia (Google Translate). Russia Today, however, denies the news. Is this part of a clever disinformation move by Snowden, who reportedly is still in the Moscow airport Sheremetyevo 2?"
The Washington Post is also reporting Snowden did apply for asylum in Russia. Snowden released a statement last night through Wikileaks, quoting: "For decades the United States of America has been one of the strongest defenders of the human right to seek asylum. Sadly, this right, laid out and voted for by the U.S. in Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is now being rejected by the current government of my country. The Obama administration has now adopted the strategy of using citizenship as a weapon. Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. Without any judicial order, the administration now seeks to stop me exercising a basic right. A right that belongs to everybody. The right to seek asylum."
and he is us.
I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
I never figured Russia was the sort of bastion of human rights and limited government such that its leaders would want to help a guy like Snowden.
It has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person.
Not quite. He is still a citizen of the United States and can contact the US Embassy for assistance to leave the country, though it would mean his surrender to the United States. If he publicly made that intent known, officials from the US Embassy in Russia could travel to the airport, use diplomatic powers to pass into where Snowden rests, issue him temporary travel documents to escort him out of the airport and to the embassy, and arrange for travel home.
He's not stateless, but I'm sure he likes to think of himself that way.
Snooze Alarm.
Hit the button. Roll over.
How I wish this was hard to believe.
According to the age, Snowden has withdrawn that request. Mr Snowden withdrew his Russian asylum request because of a demand that he stop harming US interests by leaking documents
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
"Edward Snowden Files For Political Asylum In Russia"
That was yesterday's news, sorry. Today's news, is that he's not.
One can only wonder.. Asylum?, in Russia?? LMAO ROLF etc etc.
One of the worst countries regarding to human rights, freedom of press etc.
Having a passport canceled doesn't effect citizenship. Snowden's statement is rubbish on that point.
Prepared to issue one-entry travel document to Snowden: US
"We reject - you've heard Assange say earlier that he's sort of marooned in Russia. That's not true. We're prepared to issue one-entry travel document. He's still a US citizen. He still enjoys the rights of his US citizenship, which include the right to a free and fair trial for the crimes he's been accused of," the State Department spokesperson, Patrick Ventrell, told reporters at his daily news conference yesterday.
"We reject the notion that this is some sort of political prosecution. Indeed, it's not. These are serious crimes, serious violations of his obligations, and as somebody who had access to classified information, and so our position is that he needs to face a free and fair trial and not be a fugitive," Ventrell said.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
UK Guardian reporting he changed his mind following Putin's comments... http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/02/edward-snowden-nsa-withdraws-asylum-russia-putin
A passport is not the same thing as citizenship. Since he has successfully applied for asylum in many places, I don't see how his right to seek asylum is denied. This is just another Assange level crybaby in action. If he was so unbowed, etc. he would come for a trial willingly.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/07/01/some-see-julian-assanges-hand-in-new-snowden-statement/
Wikileaks wrote and edited that statement, its becoming clear Snowden has submitted himself to be Wikileaks' useful idiot and pawn in their larger game.
It is really so sad, he has lost any sympathy for his case by associating with that organization.
The right to asylum has been under attack for quite a while now; this is hardly news.
I'm happy to be explained the difference between 1) seeking asylum fleeing politically-motivated charges, versus 2) fleeing criminal charges, albeit, for offences committed with a political motivation.
Americans will never defend their constitution, that has been proven for decades of abuses.
Land of the fat and LAZY.
The dream died years ago, I still have no idea why people still believe it is still a dream country.
What a remarkably insightful comment!
Apparently he withdrew his asylum request after Putin asked him to stop leaking more secrets. Funny he would consider it in the first place knowing that Russians are likely much worst when it comes to surveillance of their own citizens. Can't see many nations wanting him at this time.
And using bad grammar while you're at it.
Snowden never said canceling a passport <em>affects</em> citizenship. He did say, however, that the US government was using his citizenship as a weapon.
Think, then post.
This news is a day late. Since this happened Putin told him he can't leak anything else if he wants to stay in Russia so he's withdrawn his request to Russia.
As for the US breaching article 14 I don't think it matters anymore, they've long thrown articles 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11 and 12 out the window in the last decade and no one did anything so of course they'll try and get away with violating the rest despite being a signatory to the UDHR.
But in this case they're also now violating article 13, which states that:
"Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each State.
Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."
Revoking Snowden's passport also violates this from what I can see as by removing his passport they're removing his right to travel and hence to leave Russia.
Or in other words the US has pretty much now completely thrown the de-facto document on basic levels of standards of human rights entirely out the window.
As each year goes on they're breaching a new article, when they do that how can they realistically preach to any other nation on human rights? How can they pretend to have the moral high ground next time a blind Chinese human rights activist turns up at their embassy and they claim they should be allowed to let him go to the US against China's will?
NSA is not us. If NSA were us, Clapper wouldn't be lying to Congress.
FISA ruling wouldn't be hidden from us, especially the 2011 one saying its illegal.
This wouldn't have been done in secret and they wouldn't have to lie to us.
Snowden wouldn't have had to leak something that should/needs be public in a democracy anyway.
FTC and other government agencies wouldn't have to remind Corps there are laws in the land.
Google Yahoo etc. wouldn't be fighting secret orders in secret kangaroo courts.
Cheney wouldn't be smirking.
So no, it's them, no us. A fear-mongering faction in the NSA led by General Alexander that simply decided one day to capture all data and store all data, on everyone, and a lot of traitors to their countries who went along with it. /rant
http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/edward-snowden-applies-asylum-in-norway-5484164
Another article saying the Russian application was withdrawn:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23145887
That's weird, multiple international treaties disagree. They must be wrong huh?
Abstractions... nothing more.... physical reality is only influenced by abstractions to the extent human action is connected to them. To understand this is to know its about excuses to use nothing more than brute force physically.
The Obama Adminastration is not a US governemnt but the government the founders wrote and warned us about when they wrote the Declaration of Independence. And they gave us instructions as to what to do about it. Recognizing its not only our right to do something about it but our Duty to.
So what does this do for Snowden? Plenty know, though the Obama Administration is in denial about it.
Allow me to draw your attention to this line from: Statement from Edward Snowden in Moscow
"Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. "
Maybe you can change that last line to: Read, then post.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
NSA template response #1435-33
http://wikileaks.org/Statement-from-Edward-Snowden-in.html?snow
Monday July 1, 21:40 UTC
One week ago I left Hong Kong after it became clear that my freedom and safety were under threat for revealing the truth. My continued liberty has been owed to the efforts of friends new and old, family, and others who I have never met and probably never will. I trusted them with my life and they returned that trust with a faith in me for which I will always be thankful.
On Thursday, President Obama declared before the world that he would not permit any diplomatic "wheeling and dealing" over my case. Yet now it is being reported that after promising not to do so, the President ordered his Vice President to pressure the leaders of nations from which I have requested protection to deny my asylum petitions.
This kind of deception from a world leader is not justice, and neither is the extralegal penalty of exile. These are the old, bad tools of political aggression. Their purpose is to frighten, not me, but those who would come after me.
For decades the United States of America has been one of the strongest defenders of the human right to seek asylum. Sadly, this right, laid out and voted for by the U.S. in Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is now being rejected by the current government of my country. The Obama administration has now adopted the strategy of using citizenship as a weapon. Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. Without any judicial order, the administration now seeks to stop me exercising a basic right. A right that belongs to everybody. The right to seek asylum.
In the end the Obama administration is not afraid of whistleblowers like me, Bradley Manning or Thomas Drake. We are stateless, imprisoned, or powerless. No, the Obama administration is afraid of you. It is afraid of an informed, angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised Ã" and it should be.
I am unbowed in my convictions and impressed at the efforts taken by so many.
Edward Joseph Snowden Monday 1st July 2013
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Haha.
Snowden has retracted his asylum application to Russia, on the ground that he does not want to jeopardize the state-to-state relationship between Russia and the USA
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
If Snowden walked into the US Embassy in Moscow, they would issue him travel pass for a one way ticket back to the States in about 5 minutes. That he an international fugitive on the run probably has more to do with his reluctance.
... but NSA does represent the Americans !!
Whether you like it or not, if you are an American (which I am), NSA is part and parcel of the American government - and whatever NSA is doing (and whatever the Obama administration is doing right now) does represent ALL THE AMERICANS
I mean, look at what is happening in Egypt
The Egyptians who are tired of the non-performing Egyptian presidents are gathering in HUGE CROWD, demanding that muslim-brotherhood figurehead to step down
And about America ... ... do you see anything like that happening ?
Why not ?
What kind of message the Americans are telling the world ? ... that we, the Americans, are SATISFIED with what the Obama administration is doing ... that we, the Americans, agree with what NSA is doing ... that we, the Americans, do not mind our phones be tapped, do not mind that the big brother has invaded our privacy, do not mind at all, that our liberties are being violated
By doing nothing, that's THE MESSAGE the Americans are telling the world ... whether you like it, or not
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Sorry guys, I know you want to fight oppression, corporations, evil governments and what else, but level of cheese coming out of Assange and now Snowden is making me puke. Seriously, a stateless person? Passport is *document*, not nationality or citizenship. It is revoked when you have lost formal trust of country it has been issued by (regular procedure for accused runaways). Edward, you already invalidating anything you have said before (except factual leaked docs), because your intent is to speculate emotionally.
What he really thought will happen after his identification as the source? That everybody will jump out of joy when he will ask for political asylum? That he will have capability to travel after identifying himself? What is this with this childish behavior?
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
The fact that you know this is a template response, makes your response a template response. otherwise how would you know that it is a template?
Just the accusation implies knowledge that you can not have unless you are an insider. Which means that you are either making things up (Most Likely) or an agent Provocateur (unlikely but much worse).
Both options mean that you should be ignored...
At least, he's not an Anonymous Coward, making such bold statements.
An international thriller unfolding day-by-day. A nerd on the run in exotic locations. Every morning there are dozens of fascinating stories in the news. Awesome!
If he wanted to blame someone, I'd blame the folks at Wikileaks who advised him to travel from Hong Kong to Russia in the first place. Apparently they told him they'd find him a place for Asylum and it seems they couldn't deliver.
Sorry, but part of civil disobedience is a willingness to suffer the consequences as just or unjust as they maybe. That's what sets people like Gandhi, Mandela and MLKjr apart from this guy. They took their stands and paid the price of their stands.
Some want to lift this guy up as some kind of hero. Others a criminal and traitor. I've held the position that he's both. At least until he begins giving up operational tradecraft information then I start to lean more towards criminal. It's one thing to bring to light what is going on in generalities.
Although I'm getting a laugh at the coming out of the EU being up and arms about our spying on them, especially the French. After all the DGSE is the only intelligence service I know of that publically publishes the fact that 25% of their budget is spent on industrial espionage to help French businesses.
At any rate, glad we can all be focused on this little side drama as opposed to the meat of the story: mainly the spying programs that the NSA have been engaged in. Funny how just a week later that's been pushed from the news headlines. If this wasn't enough to get people into the streets with pitchforks and willing to tar and feather the lot of them in DC I guess nothing will. It was a nice republic, too bad we couldn't keep it.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
I wonder if he has discovered the finer delicacies of airport eating, as seen in the Terminal, such as the venerable ketchup and mustard cracker sandwich.
This is now considered a right of US citizens, not a human right in general? I think I need to change my travel plans...
(What's a 'free' trial anyway? Is that 'free' as in 'beer', or some other type of 'free'?)
Knowledge Is Free.
We Are Anonymous.
We Are Legion.
We Do Not Forgive.
We Do Not Forget.
Expect Us.
PS: I still have my passport...
So he supposedly "martyred" himself for freedom, and yet has no qualms about living in countries that are much more oppressive than the US. Hypocrite, pure and simple.
He applied for Asylum in a few countries that are less oppressive than the US too.
But it's not a hypocritical act to sacrifice yourself so that others may have greater freedom.
My own interpretations:
Primarily, this is actually about the crucifixion: the part that follows deals with his righteousness being his only clothing [he was naked when crucified], and so on.
But it also applies to us today, in its primary condition:
your sins have hidden his face from you,
so that he will not hear.
In World War II, we were heard. It will not happen now.
4.No one calls for justice;
no one pleads a case with integrity.
They rely on empty arguments, they utter lies;
they conceive trouble and give birth to evil.
See what is on slashdot every day. We call it trolling, sometimes. Sometimes we call it Online Reputation Management. Sometimes we mod it up.
5.They hatch the eggs of vipers
and spin a spider's web.
Whoever eats their eggs will die,
and when one is broken, an adder is hatched.
how many times, are we offered up that which is bad for us, as a good thing. The director the the NSA among them! Also the chairmen of the Fed, and our lawyers, or doctors... often our bishops and priests, our realtors... But if anyone points that out, they have made a mortal enemy, an adder.
6.Their cobwebs are useless for clothing;
they cannot cover themselves with what they make.
Their deeds are evil deeds,
All those webs of intrigue... will never cover their --or our-- nakedness. They will never honor us.
and acts of violence are in their hands.
Remember the last wikileaks scandle, Manning, where video of our soldiers slaughtering innocent civilians and laughing -- a war crime!!! -- was released, and only Manning has been charged? Need I say more?
7.Their feet rush into sin;
they are swift to shed innocent blood.
Iniquitous laws made by evildoers aside, Manning is innocent in the strongest sense of the word. So is Snowden. Here on Slashdot, I see some deny that, some laugh at him and taunt him -- cowards, you -- some agree with that, and some agree, while laughing that he's going to be destroyed.
They pursue evil schemes;
acts of violence mark their ways.
Again, not so much those we name as terrorists, though them too: Rather, our own government, and even us.
8.The way of peace they do not know;
there is no justice in their paths.
Our leadership destroys our whistleblowers, and let mass murderers go free. In justice, such deserve to die at the hands of the mass murderers they supported.
They have turned them into crooked roads;
no one who walks along them will know peace.
9.So justice is far from us,
and righteousness does not reach us.
We look for light, but all is darkness;
for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows.
10.Like the blind we grope along the wall,
feeling our way like people without eyes.
At midday we stumble as if it were twilight;
among the strong, we are like the dead.
11.We all growl like bears;try to threaten others for our safety
we moan mournfully like doves. gasping in shock and pain
We look for justice, but find none;
for deliverance, but it is far away.
12.For our offenses are many in your sight,
and our sins testify against us.
Our offenses are ever with us,
and we acknowledge our iniquities:
13.rebellion and treachery against the Lord,
turning our backs on our God,
this is the source of our problems. Deny it, but you will live it.
inciting revolt and oppression,
uttering lies our hearts have conceived.
I'm going to say, most people--even on slashdot now-- are afraid to post what they believe, by now. Our government embraced Naziism, and we are living in Nazi times.
14.So justice is driven back,
and righteousness stands at a distance;
truth has stumbled in the streets,
honesty cannot enter.
15.Truth is nowhere to be found,
and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey.
Snowden
The Lord looked and was displeased
that there was no justice.
16.He saw that there was no one,
he was appalled that there was no one to intervene;
This is where I look for my answer. When there is noone to save, then look to the Lord to save.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Lee Harvey Snowden.
That's what some of the Fox radio talk hosts are calling hm. For the usual wrong reasons, but the comparison seems apt regardless.
Snowden is a fucking mess, dumbass motherfucker...
Exactly. How stupid do you have to be to stand up against government tyranny? It's obvious that the US government was just watching out for foreign terrorists outside the US by collecting local phone data. It's even more obvious that the whole EU and UN are branches of al-queda and should be closely monitored for threats. Kofi Annan could be planning a suicide attack right now!!
I'm being ironic and mocking you Anonymous Coward because you are talking BS.
Firstly, he's not stateless. The US is not denying the fact he is currently a United States Citizen. A stateless person is one with no citizenship anywhere. A stateless person has no right of entry into any country; he has the right to return to the US any time he wants.
Second, nothing in international law obligates any country to not object to an asylum application. It would be a treaty violation to make asylum seeking in and of itself a crime, but that's not happening.
That UN treaty does protect asylum seekers from purely political prosecutions, but Snowden has moved well away from whistleblowing on domestic surveillance programs (I could certainly classify that as "political"), and has progressed to apparently spilling the beans on every electronic intelligence gathering operation he could get his hands on.
When he was still talking about domestic surveillance of questionably constitutionality, I could see him as a civil liberties hero. But he's gone well beyond that by now.
And, as a side note, how did he NOT think going from Hong Kong to Moscow was going from The Frying Pan Into the Fire? Hong Kong was a strange choice to begin with. (He could be successfully hiding almost anywhere in Western Europe, had he fled there.) Leaving Hong Kong to head to Moscow was even stranger. If he wanted the "Court of Public Opinion" on his side, this was not necessarily the best way to go about it. Not to mention the danger inherent in relying on the goodwill of the Peace and Freedom Loving Peoples of Russia.
"does represent ALL THE AMERICANS"
Only 60 members of Congress were briefed and only 3000 people knew about the project in Government. It doesn't represent *all* Americans. It's a deception that's falling apart sustained by secrecy.
Conspiracies take time to unravel.
Half a million signatures tell me, that half a million people SO FAR have read the Guardian leaks. That's a good start.
As the court opens the 2011 FISA ruling that this program is illegal, they'll be 5 million more.
As the extent of the phone surveillance becomes apparent it will be 50 million.
As the extent of the trawl of public records comes out, that will be 300 million.
U mocking me, I call moms... Boo Fucking Hoo genius!
Snowden is still a dumbass and you little fuckers that believe you can beat/change the system (U.S.A. Fuck Yeah!) have much to learn...
When Snowden outed himself, he said 'I have no intention of hiding who I am because I know I have done nothing wrong' so why won't he come back and face trial? There are obviously plenty of lawyers who would love to represent him and the case will be covered like crazy by the media.
Truth is, he did do something wrong. He committed treason (and continues to, claiming he has more info about the NSA as if to bribe other countries for asylum). Whether he did it for good reason or bad has nothing to do with the fact he committed the crime. That's the deal with being an activist: you accept the punishment for what you did, even if you think the result of what you did was a good thing.
Whether you agree with what Snowden did or not (I for one do not), dude is a serious drama queen. This is somewhat typical of his generation. Everything is just so much more bigger and more important because it happens to them . It reminds me of an article I read some months ago about how his generation is convinced because they re-tweeted some messages in 2009 during the Iranian presidential election unrest that "I was there, man, on the ground trying to help Iranian democracy."
He clearly did not think things out very well. If he had, he would have fled to Ecuador first, asked for asylum, then leaked everything. Instead he thought he could hide out in Hong Kong, not realizing that China could suggest to Hong Kong authorities that making Snowden someone else's problem ASAP might be the best idea for everybody. I am amused at how he talks about how "I am convicted of nothing". Yes, of course. The reason he is "convicted of nothing" is because he has so far avoided having to answer for his actions in a US court of law.
So his first leak was understandable to many: He found a program that seemed to be, if not illegal, at least questionable and had an American intelligence agency targeting American citizens which it is not supposed to do. Ok, you can understand why someone would choose to reveal that, even if you disagree with that choice. There is a strong argument to be made for the public's interest in knowing this information (if it is accurate).
However now he seems to just be leaking anything and everything. "The NSA is spying on China!" "This NSA is spying on the EU!" Not only is that shit really not that surprising, but it really isn't the kind of thing he can make the same claim about in terms of public good. This seems to be more of a "spill my guts on anything I know because they are after me,' situation.
Well that is not the kind of thing that is going to endear him to many people, or many nations. While a nation might be interested in using him as an asset (one of the oldest parts of spycraft is doubling people) and finding out in private what he knows about the US's spying against them, they are far less interested in hearing it screamed in public to any that will listen.
So I really think he overplayed his hand on things. Had he just leaked information about the PRISM program, I find it far more likely he'd find somewhere to take him in, perhaps in trade for a private debrief about what else he knows. As it stands he is harming his own position.
"Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution." That's not the same as saying that other countries are obligated to grant you asylum.
Also, I'm personally not sure if this is a "case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes". Theft of classified government data does not, in my opinion, qualify as a political crime.
But it's not a hypocritical act to sacrifice yourself so that others may have greater freedom.
If he was sacrificing himself, he would have stayed in the USA after distributing all the documents he'd stolen and proudly stood trial for what he'd done.
Instead, he ran for it. And now he's having to deal with the unfortunate reality that most countries aren't going to stick their neck out to protect him from the United States if there's nothing to be gained.
The State Department can revoke your passport. You might notice there's a little part that says "This passport is the property of the United States (Title 22, Code of Federal Regulations, Section 51.9). It must be surrendered upon demand made by an authorized representative of the United States Government." They have the right to revoke your passport and criminal charges are a reason they can. In that event what happens is you can get a special travel document that'll let you go back to the US. Yes, if he takes that, he'll face trial in the US. That is the point of revoking his passport. A passport is not a license to run away, it is a travel document to allow you to travel legally. The US can revoke your passport and tell you to come home if they are charging you with a crime.
I think you need to read up a bit more on the law and human rights. It is quite well established that a country can charge their citizens with a crime, and can do things like revoke travel rights while they stand trial. What Snowden is accused of is a crime. You can certainly argue that they shouldn't charge him, but releasing classified information you've been given access to is a crime. You sign all kinds of NDAs to that effect having a security clearance. You are made full and well aware it is a crime to reveal classified information.
So the US has a valid charge against him, and it is within its rights, nationally and internationally, to revoke his passport and demand he return to face trial. That doesn't mean it is morally right, but that is up to the individual to decide. There is no human rights issue here though. Revealing classified information you are given access to is a crime in every nation I am aware of (in some it is a crime period, even if you are given the information from someone else and have no clearance yourself), and in the US they make it VERY clear when you get your security clearance that you agree not to do so, under penalty of law.
He felt so strongly that what he was doing was right, that he decided to flee the country willingly to avoid prosecution before doing what he did.
He know he was doing something against the law of the US.
If he really wanted to make a point, he would have not fled, but willingly faced the music in open court.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/bilingual/2013-04/21/c_132327394.htm
That trend started 30 years ago when we elected Reagan.
The American people have repeatedly insisted that God and Guns equals freedom and liberty, which is in fact only a delusion.
(1) Turned down good asylum candidates: Ecuador, Hong Kong, Russia.
(2) Didnt seem to know that most places dont even consider asylum until you are on their soil (including embassy).
I assume he saved a fair amount from his hihg paying federal jobs. But he is still a young guy and probably doesnt have to much.
Any money he did not hide abroad has probably been locked down by US warrants. US harrassed Wiikileaks to almost extinction three years ago. They can probably gvie good advice on how to channel money now.
I fear when the world loses interest in him, he will run out of money and have to chose an unsatisfactory choice.
Clearly, he's not very bright.
Here's a typical leading question they asked on that push poll:
"Did you follow reports about the government collecting emails and other online activities directly from large internet companies to TRACK FOREIGN SUSPECTS IN TERROR investigations very closely,"
And even then, with the blatant lie in the question designed to deliver a high percent, they could only just get the number above 50%.
So no,
It is them.
The United States Zionist-occupied government does not represent the citizens of the USA!
If he wants back in, get some cosmetic surgery, contact lenses, go bald and new style or no facial hair. After which, cross our unprotected southern borders, choose a new name, get a fake ID on the black market, stay low for awhile and slowly merge into society again and keep a low profile.
Committing treason against a corrupt government vs. treason against your country can be seen differently by the people. Though he did break the law, many people see him as a hero. Think of it. It took acts of treason against a government that was suppressing and refusing to listen to our people for us to become the country we now are. Maybe this is the first step towards another revolution.
Nothing has been mentioned about any Muslim led nation. Why has he not fled to Iran/Iraq? This (stab in the back to the NSA) would be a perfect cover story for him to become a double agent. Just imagine the trojans that could be loaded onto his hard drives. Once those ferocious rootkits infest every pc in every muslim nation, we will know every thing about every muslim - we will know before THEY do about their discontent and terrorist plans.
I used to be stateless (de jure, with a 1954 convention travel document), and you are quite wrong. I had the right to return to Germany and the same right of entry to a country someone else with a valid visum has.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
once he spoke about foreign involvement. Prior to that, is was debatable as to his being a whistleblower. But when speaking about what is happening in the foreign context, he became a full blown traitor.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
what a tool this Snowden is. he's a wanted fugitive, accused of treason and espionage. then he whines that US is blocking his asylum bids? no shit, sherlock! he needs to recognize the impact of his actions, and set his expectations accordingly. somebody call the waaambulance! US has long arms around the world, so he shouldn't be surprised when the MIB show up to put him on a plane to quantico
in short, he did a really crappy thing (or herioc thingi if that's your worldview), and he's going to be held accountable to it. any statements to the contrary are naive and self centered (like assange himself).
What's happening to Snowden is less about punishing him as it is scaring any future would-be whistleblowers. He already threw his previous life away by exposing illegal data mining, would he have done so if he thought he also wouldn't be able to get safe harbor anywhere else?
Consider, if he was really a bad guy, he'd board the train to Pyongyang from Moscow. I'm sure North Korea would welcome a former NSA sysadmin with open arms.
More Twoson than Cupertino
Post to undo mod.
According to the Passport Fact Sheet published May 2012, (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/smart/pdfs/passport_fact_sheet.pdf) the US may revoke a passport if there is an arrest warrant (which there is) to keep an individual from departing the US, if there is a court order restricting the individual from leaving the US. Since Snowden was already outside the US, it would seem frivolous to issue a court order barring him from leaving the US and therefore, by the State Department's own regulations (laws), it appears revoking his passport was handled improperly and this could be seen as a human rights violation as he is effectively imprisoned without due process (without a passport he cannot enter Russia, either and is confined to the one area of the airport that is considered international space).
If Russia declines asylum, since Snowden is technically not in Russia, but in international space, any country could grant him political asylum, put him on a plane, private or otherwise and let him into their country as a political refugee (for which international law does not require a passport). The question is which country will be the one to do that?
The US better hope that nothing happens to him while he is stranded, too. It would be hard to convince the rest of the world that after not following the law on password revocations that we just didn't take him out.
Why was my first impression one of an accomplice having baked a file into a cake for Snowden?
Have gnu, will travel.
private to FLETC and other Feds, etc. : No, not Bobby. JC. He's in the 1989 folder, at least. But you knew, of course. Interesting parallels to thissnake in the garden.
Everybody else, move along, nothing to see here....
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130701/15364423684/ed-snowden-releases-statement-moscow-though-its-unclear-if-snowden-actually-wrote-it.shtml
https://twitter.com/fmanjoo/status/351831942959865858
There is a good chance either he did not write this statement at all, or wikileaks edited the shit out of it to "pretty it up" for the press.
Perfect
The rest of the world does get the idea that Americans are stupid but thankfully there are others to balance the impression people like you create.
Your knowledge of history is lacking. If you think the US would have been better off if Snowden had kept his mouth shut, you are sorely mistaken.
Despite the current fallout from his releases, America will, in the long run, benefit from this all coming to light. Look, a good number if people, respected and not, suspected the Gov't was doing this shit. And they were right. That 'guess' though, is irrelevant because we're now all faced with the hurdle or reversing it all to a sane state.
You, me, the teenager down the street, and everyone else, have rights that this Governments behavior, in the name if terrorism, trump. There is a sane way of protecting America with regard to surveillance, and still retaining the rights afforded to everyone US citizen.
Don't let this distract from the fact that your still whining about the messenger in all this. Your playing right into the media vortex. Congratulations on being part of the problem!
What an evil fucking genius; he knew the true nature of our corporate-fascist politicians better than we did. One successful attack was all that was required.
What was it the merkins complained about with monarchy? What they say goes?
Well here we have a "What we say goes".
Snowden worked for the U.S. Government for how long and never learned the U.S. motto of "do as we say, not as we do"? He actually thinks things like laws and human rights apply to the U.S. Government?
Liberty in your lifetime
Because this should make it pretty fucking clear.
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your mom wish you were never born
After now the entire world will watch him stand trial --- a FAIR trial. If anything happens to him by unfair means, the reputation of the United States is over.
New Economic Perspectives
of the zionist occupied government
What's happening to Snowden is less about punishing him as it is scaring any future would-be whistleblowers. He already threw his previous life away by exposing illegal data mining, would he have done so if he thought he also wouldn't be able to get safe harbor anywhere else?
A real man would have, yes. A real man would have told the public, and stood proud and dared the government to treat him like a bitch for it, with the backing of the public to protect him.
What he did on the other hand was lie, broke contracts, ran out of the country, then started asking some of America's biggest Friemeies to protect him.
He's not a hero, he's a traitor.
Ghandi is a hero. Nelson Mandela is a hero. Martin Luther King was a hero. These men stood by their actions, with pride. These men changed the world. Snowden will just be another minor footnote in history that no one will remember in a couple years.
This guy is a douche like Assange who wants attention, guess what ... he got it. And its not the attention he wanted, but its certainly the attention he deserves.
The only reason he's not on a 'train to NK' is because he's probably aware of what they do to traitors there after they've had their way with them.
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Enjoy your enslaved goyim puppet ni66er president and your U.S. Zionist occupied government while you can. Because soon we will exercise our 2nd amendment right on your tiny little ass.
A real man would have, yes. A real man would have told the public,
A real man would not engage in the No True Scotsman fallacy as his opening gambit.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It wasn't
I sure hope the entier world finally sees america for what it is and decides its time for them to taste that unique brand of freedom they force upon others.
Snowden is representative of the whiny,"Look at me, I participated, see? Here's my trophy" generation. Crusaders can't expect to lead the battlecharge, without assuming not only some of the risks, but also the consequences. If Russia was going to allow him to stay in the country, he should've accepted. Why? Because even the ugliest of Russia's hot women are hotter than his ex-stripper girlfriend. STFU, and enjoy your new homeland, jackass.
There are 2 groups of people you can make fun of on the Internet without fear of attack. The illiterate, and the Amish.
Please renounce your US citizenship. Since you obviously don't think that is any sort of sacrifice. Go live in exile for the rest of your life and then get back to us.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Are YOU doing anything to make his sacrifice worth it, apart from posting on Slashdot?
It sounds like you are saying that someone who pushes a child out of the path of a car is a coward unless they make sure they are themselves hit by that car in the process. It's possible to do good (or what you believe to be good) without destroying yourself in the process.
How dumb is this guy?
1. Reveal leaks first.
2. Run and find asylum second.
If he was smart, he would have secured his "freedom" first.
Well, some are fat. Others are lazy. But yes, some are fat and lazy.
Because he really is in Russia. Putin is just playing a political game. It doesn't cease being Russia just because they have a holding zone for transients there. Only embassies have "foreign soil" status, and that's just by courtesy anyway. Any US agents that went there to try something would get stomped.
Firstly, he's not stateless. The US is not denying the fact he is currently a United States Citizen. A stateless person is one with no citizenship anywhere. A stateless person has no right of entry into any country; he has the right to return to the US any time he wants.
OK, so it's true enough that he is not indeed stateless.
But also, haven't two or three US Citizens ended up in essentially permanent detention without trial, in violation of the Bill of Rights?
That's no excuse to call himself stateless, but, he could reasonably call himself "effectively stateless," considering recent actions by some arms of the US government (as in the above).
Same here, but you must be on territory. Moscow embassy wouldn't do and I believe that is Norway's policy as well. However, an interesting fact from our local media, interior ministry informed they wouldn't give any special treatment for an asylum seeker wheather he/she comes from America or Afganistan, ie. possible arrival, person whoever entered the country and what are his/her chances for an asylum would all stay classified. That means policy for no press conference for every Syrian refugee received today would apply equally to Snowden, no matter who he is.
If he was sacrificing himself, he would have stayed in the USA after distributing all the documents he'd stolen and proudly stood trial for what he'd done.
Why? You don't have to be stupid to sacrifice yourself. If you witness a mafia boss murder someone, are you going to proudly and boldly testify without asking for witness protection? Believe it or not, given the choice, most people would like to do what they think is right AND not have their life ruined.
He's been indicted? When did that happen?
The GP had it right: he's been accused. The US government has filed a (sealed) complaint for theft of government property, and two offences under the Espionage Act. He has not even been accused of treason in any legally-meaningful way.
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As much as I agree that this shit needed to be exposed, he should not have done it if he was not ready to face trial. Otherwise the political value of this act drops dramatically.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
I am uncomfortable with the amount of people concerned with Snowden, and not interested in judicial investigation of the NSA programs (FISA does not count).
Oh, FFS. Watch the NSA bots infiltrate discussions.
Roaches.
Did you even remotely consider the possibility that Snowden may be in a situation somewhat ( or much ) similar to those who opposed the German fascist government in the '30s of the XXth century ? If and when your adversary or, let's use the right word here, your enemy is a superpower, your best option may be, as a matter of fact, to run. And then again, Sir: would YOU stand all alone in an American court and face the entire impetus of the state rolling over you ? Would you, Sir ?
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
Hope you like borsht!
My karma is bad. Don't get too close!!!
If you weren't a fucking dumbass and you were in Snowden's shoes, no doubt you'd be trying to seek asylum in as many countries as you could too. Yes, even if their views don't perfectly align with yours. Life is full of choices... and in Edward's case, they are unfortunately running out as the U.S. tries to strong-arm countries out of giving him asylum.
Everything Mr. Black Asshole says is exactly opposite of what he really means. He won't be doing any "wheeling and dealing" to catch a 29-year-old "hacker"? Sure--he'll just have his Vice President and other people he controls in the government do it for him. Hell, he'll have European governments do his dirty work for him, blocking their airspace so a South American president cannot safely return home on schedule, under the "suspicion" that this 29-year-old "hacker" is on-board. Nope, no "wheeling and dealing" or "scrambling jets" here.
Fuck the U.S. government... and I am *from* the U.S. I'm just waiting for someone, *anyone*, to accept Edward. He has done us Americans an invaluable service. Fuck, he has done the entire world a service, including those weak pussies known as France who helped to block off Bolivian President Morales. Edward deserves justice--and not the kind of hypocritical bullshit that my own government dishes out that they call "justice". He knows he won't get real "justice" here, so he left. That's completely understandable, and it should be fucking obvious by now to any U.S. citizen.
Never mind the fact that the U.S. has no extradition treaty with Russia and we were begging them to hand him over; yet, we will commit an international crime of blocking a national leader's flight just to catch him. What a bunch of motherfucking hypocrites we are.
Treason means nothing in absolute ethical terms in this situation, where the entity issuing the judgement is horribly corrupt. The word perhaps one had value in the implied sense of 'betrayal of one's own team'. In the current situation, it's offensive of the US to cry foul when the game, rules and referee are corrupt. All it means is 'we're gonna fuck you over for enlightening those few world citizens currently ignorant that the US is a cesspool of corruption and double-speak.' I for one would welcome a straightforward statement to that effect. I guess the US government is so twisted that they probably couldn't speak the truth even if they tried. What are we to do?
His proof of being a citizen of the United States is his passport. Revoking the only valid proof is pretty much denying the fact.
If the police revoked your drivers license, would you claim that "the police is not denying that I am allowed to drive a car"?
(The drivers license being proof that you are allowed to drive a car, just like a passport is proof of citizenship).
You must stand for government corruption. I don't.
Yup