Cpitalism isn't just about money it's also about product How much research do you think is going to go into deadly diseases that you cannot hope to make money off of because they're so rare.
The internet (and consequently your paycheck) is what it is because something developed was taken and launched into the stratosphere by people with dollar signs in their eyes.
Last I heard the OS responsible for the Net, Unix was of no value to AT&T until after Kevin Thomson created it for his own needs. Then they suddenly saw the light.
What makes you so convinced that technology is expensive?
Maybe I do misjudge you, but frankly you're no help in misjudging you. Now just listen.
I was like you a year ago. Just pure anti-corporate trash. I had a nickname I don't remember. Then I realized I never made an argument. Just whined all day. I gave up the nick. I used my real name. It does wonders. My posts got sharper. They became shorter. And sometimes even funny.
I've come to believe you can't pull peace and justice out of your own ass and make everyone just accept it. I have to tell you tthe stuff about taking care of each other and the common goood, all sounds nice but it's not only a cop out, it's also putting the cart before the horse.
You want to change the world? Take a bite out of it. Enough with the rituals, the emotions, etc. Human beings do that anyways, mostly out of habit.
Use your head. One bowl of soup isn't going to equal the power of teaching those people how to cook for themselves. That's a service that doesn't end the moment you stop serving. I like to take a lot from my physics classes. No matter how much you sweat pushing against the blackboard, in relity you haven't done any measureable work until that blackboard moves.
You haven't done any work until that person is different in a significant way than the way he was originally. So soup kitchens are out.
You might even try this:
As people are able to work a little, let them rent the kitchen facilities for a small price or services (obviously they're homeless so instead they could teach others to cook their favorite meals), but being able to pay someone in return is a boost in self-respect, in dignity. Help people be human not just carbon bags of water.
As for your site, c'mon. Out think the bastards. I like RATM too, but I still think they're off their rocker. Not because of their music, but because of their need to pump up their persona. And I know they're not media whores, but they do seem like they're playing some part out of a movie. I don't think they realize it. I personally hate the revolutions I read in History classes. The ranting gets so overdramatised (let's not even talk about Gobels) it's sickening.
You have to be a sollipsist to believe in the good OR the bad side. You have to live in your own little world to pick one. I'm not saying Spock would make a good candidate for a revolutionary, but I am saying cut it out with the speeches.
I have a radical idea: Get in touch with some people and open up businesses slowly surrounding these bastard nazis. Turn your town into a checkerboard. Make it difficult for people to be prejudiced by accident. By their own choice... let them be prejudiced. Let the world learn a little on its own what these assholes do.
Teach your "people" to learn to rest. To build up their strength intellectually and personally.
Stop the migrations. Who needs migrations when you've got the Net?
Free speech is a right. Rights are guaranteed by political entities in their territories.
Free speech is a power granted by the people. You need to do some reading. The power of the US gov't is granted by the people. That little subtlety is very visible in how easily the Net evades censorship.
Oh and by the way, when something goes wrong in the US, we don't have a civil war like a bunch of barbarians every other decade. This is the US, not Europe or wherever people choose to shutdown their brains in the face of problems. When a cap gun goes off in the East there's war. When a bomb explodes in the US, there is only horror. No war. You need to learn that lesson.
Anonymity is a power granted by the capabilities of the net. Anonymitity is a little script I can run out of an outhouse in the middle of nowhere over as long as I have a phone line.
It's amazing how you hate the control of authority you can't recognize that there's places where it doesn't exist.
You just argued that locks on my doors are a sign that I don't have a right to privacy, which is the right not to be harrassed not the right to live in secrecy.
You are a chicken with its head cut off. Please read some history before coming out of the wilderness in your own mind.
When was the last time you taught someone how to read?
All the milk and honey in the world isn't going to bring a drop of hope for a future, unless you're one of the commie-fascist-nazi bastards who think humanity should fix problems and just eat shit drink work and sleep. Talk about going in fucking circles.
When was the last time you sent those kids some of this technology?
I recently replaced a 4 year old computer with an Athlon 500 + 20G + 64MB RAM + Video + Mobo for $450.
You have to be kidding me that you couldn't ship that sort of thing overseas. And note the Athlon is a powerful machine. You could assemble a box for $150.
Course what does the third world know about computing. Teach if you're so fucking concerned.
As for free speech... Name a place that offers better opportunities than the net. None.
Before whining like a looter in disguise, get off your ass put your hard work where your mouth is and paying your own bills doesn't cut it.
I'm sorry but I don't see anything less than jealous rantings.
It is only those who have NOT been successful that complain about the "system". If you work hard and play by the rules the "system" will treat you just fine.
My ass. It's those who depend on the "successful' whop complain about the new guy. That's what this thread is about. Geez sollipsists, not only do you not read comments, you fit the comments to assumptions based on a few words you read. You have no capacity to grasp subtle differences.
LUGs mailing lists, newsgroups, they're slow as hell.
I go to them and they have no machines to show you how to do things.
To be fair however you're totally wroong about the demographics. Every type of Internet service is very varied. Unless of course you go to places where you have a fileserv flood. Or #openbsd. Then well you've gone to the wrong place.
People buy whatever they use at work. All this talk of interfaces and metaphors is bull. I've had to teach DOS before some people understood windows for the first time.
As for asses in IRC channels, I've noticed most people can't even begin to explain their problems clearly. What I can't understand is where the emotional fits come from. They're both frustrating, confusing, and disturbing to someone trying to help.
Forget rtfm. Linux could use some better manuals. Being uptodate is a red herring since last I heard email is still email just as it was years ago. 2+2 still = 4.
The problem is people don't even read dialogs. I'm sorry but there's a point where people have to grow up. There's no such thing as infinite convenience.
Finally, let's face it. You're talking about 30 years of innovation all at once. you want to teach people 30 years worth of shit? C'mon. It's not enough to just embrace users. They need to learn to go after the things they want. Computers aren't toasters. They're vehicles at best.
Every movement has gone that way. The ones that failed are the ones that cared about those decisions.
Frankly it's time to bring the dragon down. All those opinions you're whining about won't mean a shit when those whiners can't get anything done in a timely manner.
There's an old story about small-timer saying "Blow me" to a big timer. Guess who's still around.
As someone who is interested in getting out of this mess the industry has caused, I see your position as a cop out. Any fool can write about staying in the system.
Pray tell have you any original thought about how to get out?
If I tied people up while my friends were stealing their stuff, yes. If I'm the guy who sold them rope, even if I knew what they might do, no.
You cannot legislate "maybes". It's not that it encourages even vaguer legislation, but that it forces third parties who have absolutely no obligation to the RIAA to constantly look over their shoulders. No thank you.
Either you're missing punctuation marks, or your sentence structure is bad. Can you say it again?
You seem so eager to argue against other supposed abuses. Unless you can offer a suggestion to prevent abuse on both sides of the issue, please don't waste people's time guess-legislating.
>>Next you're gonna tell me merely thinking of linking to a site is a crime.
Okay, now you're just trying to create a slippery slope. Using a fallacious argument is not proper.
You mean this kind of slippery slope: >>If I know of a place that makes moonshine and then tell people about it, does that make me an accessory?
If moonshine is illegal where you live, yes.
Oh and the rest:
1. The person did the crime, and 2.The person knew it was a crime. So knowing that what you are doing is bad is *very* relevant.
Copyright infringement is illegal. That means outright stealing. Pointing fingers may be impolite but it is clearly not stealing. Nor is linking.
Finally, unless you can offer a suggestion to prevent abuse given you're so inclined to argue against other supposed abuses please don't waste people's time guess-legislating.
Look if you don't know, stop filling in the blanks. Windows does not need to be used to develop for Windows. Please stop guessing. Windows is not a programming environment. Visual Basic is. Unix isn't a programming environment. XEmacs is. Computers are not just tools. Yes, and my car is just for driving to work. Adding toolkits makes it much easier to get the coding done. Some toolkits are tuned toward a piecemeal approach while others are tuned for a holistic approach. One is superficially easy to code in, the other isn't bloated. In the last 30 years ppl should have learned that you can't just stick a program in a microwave oven and let it cook. Coding is only 10%-20% of a project. And when you get to repetitive parts of the project the microwave tools just fall apart. The fact that this question focusses exclusively on the "what to develop in" aspect ignores the fact that computers are just a tool, and you use the right one for solving whatever problem you need fixed. Programming is not just a repair job. A computer is not just a tool. It's an environment to create in. And creativity is not just images and words. So the question should really be, "For what kinds of problems is Linux a better solution that Windows?" Answer that, and you have also answered which system to develop under. They're not dev environments. The culture that revolves around them produce vastly different tools. Decide on where the tools tuned to your planning style (which affects software quality) are more likely to be available. Software is a tool. A computer is a refrigerator for software. Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses for development, and a competent coder can do a good job on either platform. And out of a coin toss I get heads or tails. Fluff. Please it's really depressing to read an argument like this.
Slashdot Mirror
I have been wronged the bastard admitted it in #slashdot
Okay fine. It isn't stealing.
The US is arrogant because it's 200 yrs young healthy.
Europe is senile becuase it's decrepit and centuries old.
No one is right for the job.
Cpitalism isn't just about money it's also about product How much research do you think is going to go into deadly diseases that you cannot hope to make money off of because they're so rare.
The internet (and consequently your paycheck) is what it is because something developed was taken and launched into the stratosphere by people with dollar signs in their eyes.
Last I heard the OS responsible for the Net, Unix was of no value to AT&T until after Kevin Thomson created it for his own needs. Then they suddenly saw the light.
What makes you so convinced that technology is expensive?
How's it like to feel like a piece liquidateable property junior?
Well, today my stock value went down but I promise to do better. That's my job. I'm a good kid really.
What next? Children as fashion?
The net was built for commerce... What are you a fascist? Or worse a Futurist?
Keep on rollin, keep on rolling, onward to the future, we must all tame the Earth.
The net was built by a large variety of people with alot of perspectives on what should go on.
Technology does drive the world. Without a demand ofor it you'd be out of a job.
No amount of money you could ever give will be more significant than something real, like this.
Realism is surface only. Plan. Organize. Finish something. Programming beats feeding any day. Teach people to cook.
Otherwise it's just a an articulate farce.
Maybe I do misjudge you, but frankly you're no help in misjudging you. Now just listen.
I was like you a year ago. Just pure anti-corporate trash. I had a nickname I don't remember. Then I realized I never made an argument. Just whined all day. I gave up the nick. I used my real name. It does wonders. My posts got sharper. They became shorter. And sometimes even funny.
I've come to believe you can't pull peace and justice out of your own ass and make everyone just accept it. I have to tell you tthe stuff about taking care of each other and the common goood, all sounds nice but it's not only a cop out, it's also putting the cart before the horse.
You want to change the world? Take a bite out of it. Enough with the rituals, the emotions, etc. Human beings do that anyways, mostly out of habit.
Use your head. One bowl of soup isn't going to equal the power of teaching those people how to cook for themselves. That's a service that doesn't end the moment you stop serving. I like to take a lot from my physics classes. No matter how much you sweat pushing against the blackboard, in relity you haven't done any measureable work until that blackboard moves.
You haven't done any work until that person is different in a significant way than the way he was originally. So soup kitchens are out.
You might even try this:
As people are able to work a little, let them rent the kitchen facilities for a small price or services (obviously they're homeless so instead they could teach others to cook their favorite meals), but being able to pay someone in return is a boost in self-respect, in dignity. Help people be human not just carbon bags of water.
As for your site, c'mon. Out think the bastards. I like RATM too, but I still think they're off their rocker. Not because of their music, but because of their need to pump up their persona. And I know they're not media whores, but they do seem like they're playing some part out of a movie. I don't think they realize it. I personally hate the revolutions I read in History classes. The ranting gets so overdramatised (let's not even talk about Gobels) it's sickening.
You have to be a sollipsist to believe in the good OR the bad side. You have to live in your own little world to pick one. I'm not saying Spock would make a good candidate for a revolutionary, but I am saying cut it out with the speeches.
I have a radical idea: Get in touch with some people and open up businesses slowly surrounding these bastard nazis. Turn your town into a checkerboard. Make it difficult for people to be prejudiced by accident. By their own choice... let them be prejudiced. Let the world learn a little on its own what these assholes do.
Teach your "people" to learn to rest. To build up their strength intellectually and personally.
Stop the migrations. Who needs migrations when you've got the Net?
Free speech is a right. Rights are guaranteed by political entities in their territories.
Free speech is a power granted by the people. You need to do some reading. The power of the US gov't is granted by the people. That little subtlety is very visible in how easily the Net evades censorship.
Oh and by the way, when something goes wrong in the US, we don't have a civil war like a bunch of barbarians every other decade. This is the US, not Europe or wherever people choose to shutdown their brains in the face of problems. When a cap gun goes off in the East there's war. When a bomb explodes in the US, there is only horror. No war. You need to learn that lesson.
Anonymity is a power granted by the capabilities of the net. Anonymitity is a little script I can run out of an outhouse in the middle of nowhere over as long as I have a phone line.
It's amazing how you hate the control of authority you can't recognize that there's places where it doesn't exist.
You just argued that locks on my doors are a sign that I don't have a right to privacy, which is the right not to be harrassed not the right to live in secrecy.
You are a chicken with its head cut off. Please read some history before coming out of the wilderness in your own mind.
America untold millions put up line in Nigeria so you can get Net access in the US.
Don't you love technology?
You are a disgusting human being.
Pick an argument and stick with it. Having money does not mean I've stolen it asshole.
Yes you should give a shit about the poor or they'll troll you to death.
Why doesn't that jackass just come up and say give me your Net access NOW, gringo!
When was the last time you taught someone how to read?
All the milk and honey in the world isn't going to bring a drop of hope for a future, unless you're one of the commie-fascist-nazi bastards who think humanity should fix problems and just eat shit drink work and sleep. Talk about going in fucking circles.
When was the last time you sent those kids some of this technology?
I recently replaced a 4 year old computer with an Athlon 500 + 20G + 64MB RAM + Video + Mobo for $450.
You have to be kidding me that you couldn't ship that sort of thing overseas. And note the Athlon is a powerful machine. You could assemble a box for $150.
Course what does the third world know about computing. Teach if you're so fucking concerned.
As for free speech... Name a place that offers better opportunities than the net. None.
Before whining like a looter in disguise, get off your ass put your hard work where your mouth is and paying your own bills doesn't cut it.
I'm sorry but I don't see anything less than jealous rantings.
It is only those who have NOT been successful that complain about the "system". If you work hard
and play by the rules the "system" will treat you just fine.
My ass. It's those who depend on the "successful' whop complain about the new guy. That's what this thread is about. Geez sollipsists, not only do you not read comments, you fit the comments to assumptions based on a few words you read. You have no capacity to grasp subtle differences.
Well that post was pointeless, redundant, and pointless.
LUGs mailing lists, newsgroups, they're slow as hell.
I go to them and they have no machines to show you how to do things.
To be fair however you're totally wroong about the demographics. Every type of Internet service is very varied. Unless of course you go to places where you have a fileserv flood. Or #openbsd. Then well you've gone to the wrong place.
People buy whatever they use at work. All this talk of interfaces and metaphors is bull. I've had to teach DOS before some people understood windows for the first time.
As for asses in IRC channels, I've noticed most people can't even begin to explain their problems clearly. What I can't understand is where the emotional fits come from. They're both frustrating, confusing, and disturbing to someone trying to help.
Forget rtfm. Linux could use some better manuals. Being uptodate is a red herring since last I heard email is still email just as it was years ago. 2+2 still = 4.
The problem is people don't even read dialogs. I'm sorry but there's a point where people have to grow up. There's no such thing as infinite convenience.
Finally, let's face it. You're talking about 30 years of innovation all at once. you want to teach people 30 years worth of shit? C'mon. It's not enough to just embrace users. They need to learn to go after the things they want. Computers aren't toasters. They're vehicles at best.
Every movement has gone that way. The ones that failed are the ones that cared about those decisions.
Frankly it's time to bring the dragon down. All those opinions you're whining about won't mean a shit when those whiners can't get anything done in a timely manner.
There's an old story about small-timer saying "Blow me" to a big timer. Guess who's still around.
As someone who is interested in getting out of this mess the industry has caused, I see your position as a cop out. Any fool can write about staying in the system.
Pray tell have you any original thought about how to get out?
Sorry I can't make software because I can't pay for lawyers so i could make money to pay for lawyers so I could make software.
Lovely.
Free Software must have warranty. And Commercial can get away with a shrink-wrap license? How the fuck does that work?
Three words: Aiding and abetting.
If I tied people up while my friends were stealing their stuff, yes. If I'm the guy who sold them rope, even if I knew what they might do, no.
You cannot legislate "maybes". It's not that it encourages even vaguer legislation, but that it forces third parties who have absolutely no obligation to the RIAA to constantly look over their shoulders. No thank you.
Either you're missing punctuation marks, or your sentence structure is bad. Can you say it again?
You seem so eager to argue against other supposed abuses. Unless you can offer a suggestion to prevent abuse on both sides of the issue, please don't waste people's time guess-legislating.
Your arguments are too one-sided.
>>Next you're gonna tell me merely thinking of linking to a site is a crime.
Okay, now you're just trying to create a slippery slope. Using a fallacious argument is not proper.
You mean this kind of slippery slope:
>>If I know of a place that makes moonshine and then tell people about it, does that make me an
accessory?
If moonshine is illegal where you live, yes.
Oh and the rest:
1. The person did the crime, and 2.The person knew it was a crime. So knowing that what you are doing is bad is *very* relevant.
Copyright infringement is illegal. That means outright stealing. Pointing fingers may be impolite but it is clearly not stealing. Nor is linking.
Finally, unless you can offer a suggestion to prevent abuse given you're so inclined to argue against other supposed abuses please don't waste people's time guess-legislating.
Your stuff is toast unless you met them at the Playboy Mansion.
Layering is Microsoft and Apple's favorite style of doing things. Try modal dialogs for example. An app crashes. Forget getting back focus.
As for Unix.. All processes run along side the others. I can run KDE apps in Gnome and vice versa w/ no problem.
Look if you don't know, stop filling in the blanks. Windows does not need to be used to develop for Windows. Please stop guessing. Windows is not a programming environment. Visual Basic is. Unix isn't a programming environment. XEmacs is. Computers are not just tools. Yes, and my car is just for driving to work. Adding toolkits makes it much easier to get the coding done. Some toolkits are tuned toward a piecemeal approach while others are tuned for a holistic approach. One is superficially easy to code in, the other isn't bloated. In the last 30 years ppl should have learned that you can't just stick a program in a microwave oven and let it cook. Coding is only 10%-20% of a project. And when you get to repetitive parts of the project the microwave tools just fall apart. The fact that this question focusses exclusively on the "what to develop in" aspect ignores the fact that computers are just a tool, and you use the right one for solving whatever problem you need fixed. Programming is not just a repair job. A computer is not just a tool. It's an environment to create in. And creativity is not just images and words. So the question should really be, "For what kinds of problems is Linux a better solution that Windows?" Answer that, and you have also answered which system to develop under. They're not dev environments. The culture that revolves around them produce vastly different tools. Decide on where the tools tuned to your planning style (which affects software quality) are more likely to be available. Software is a tool. A computer is a refrigerator for software. Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses for development, and a competent coder can do a good job on either platform. And out of a coin toss I get heads or tails. Fluff. Please it's really depressing to read an argument like this.