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PC Expo = Windows Heaven
This is not the biggest show out there (Comdex owns that title!) but it's an influential one where hordes of ordinary computers users come to get an idea of what's new and hot. And what's hot here is Windows, Windows, Windows, and Palm. If there's a single overused buzzword here, it's "wireless." I think I've spotted that word, along with the phrase, "mobile Internet," at least a thousand times.
To give you an example of this show's scale just in case, like me, you mostly stick to Linux and Open Source expos, the Windows "partners" pavilion here is bigger than the entire Linux World Expo that was held here last February. It is a humbling experience to be a Linux user here, somewhat like the feeling FreeBSD advocates must have at Linux shows.
Even the two (prototype) Crusoe-powered IBM laptops on display are running Windows. In the display next to the two-story tropical-themed Crusoe extravaganza, Intel had screen after screen of Windows, despite all their recent make-nice moves toward Linux.
IBM has more Linux showing than most. A sign says, "You talk, Linux types" above the display for their new ViaVoice for Linux. And if you look closely at some of the "start" buttons in the lower left screen corners on some of IBM's thin-client products, you see Penguins instead of flying flags. Yes, that is Linux, quietly there, unadvertised, doing its job without any fanfare.
But forget Linux for a moment. Palm is the only presence here that even touches that of Windows. While the Palm "partners" pavilion is less than half the size of Microsoft's equivalent, the Palm one is constantly packed, so crowded that you have to edge sideways to get into it. Microsoft's display for Pocket PC, their renamed and updated WinCE, is deserted by comparison. Palms and Visors seem to be the wireless favorites, and they are almost everywhere here that Windows isn't.
There is a Linux pavilion, but it is sadly tucked into a lower-right corner of the less-than-main exhibit hall, and not as big, all told, as Dell Computer's single display. It is not uninhabited; LinuxMall, the pavilion sponsor, is doing steady business in assorted Linux goodies, and Isaiah, a Red Hat tech rep, said they gave out 400 Red Hat 6.2 CDs yesterday "in a couple of minutes, all to CEOs who said they have IT managers working for them." That was a wowser to Isiaiah, who was amazed "...that the people asking about Linux here are suits, not techies."
But there are a few signs of non-Windows life here, tucked away in corners, not always easily identifiable. For instance, I spotted a nice little "network appliance" gadget called a FoxBox made by NetWolves Corporation. I asked what OS it ran, and the booth person said, "FreeBSD."
I said, "It doesn't say that anywhere on the literature I see here."
He said, "Really? I suppose we ought to change that. Not many people have asked what operating system we run, and most of the ones who asked were relieved to find out it wasn't NT."
More on PC Expo, including John "maddog" Hall's keynote speech, tomorrow afternoon.
Why post a comment about how one conference is all Windows... when you fail to make any postings about how other conferences are "all Linux."
It seems as though instead of promoting healthy competition.. most people are only promoting Linux. Isnt this exactly what we are against (in terms of only promoting Windows).
I just couldn't get used to the warped keyboards having used the regular ones for so long. I also don't type in 'proper' touch type technique. I sometimes cross over the middle where I am not supposed to. That is a real problem for getting used to with the 'natural' keyboards.
If you really like that shape keyboard, there are several companies (including Kensington and Keytronic I believe) that build similar keyboards. If I liked them, I'd buy one of those.
- PC vendors have zero innovation.
:)
PC vendors have basically zero innovation technically which is why they have to resort to cosmetic features to build product differentiation. Basically they all build the same boxes usually with prefab components as opposed to workstation and server vendors who build a lot larger percentage of their hardware specificaly for certain models. Most of the new ideas in the PC world are things that were pioneered by the workstations. That isn't surprising, as workstation and servers are high end, and have much larger R&D budgets than commodity markets such as desktop PCs.
- Workstation vendors stick to what works.
I should have been more clear about that. I meant that in terms of cosmetics. In general, workstation vendors (with the notable exception of SGI, which is known for wild color schemes and box shapes -- they did that before Apple, even) seem to turn out pretty industrial looking beige boxes or rackmount servers.
You should be in marketing.
Yikes. That is quite an uncalled for insult.
Your point is well taken that it is war only if the goal is victory. I was only pointing out that coexistence is rare, so victory or relegation to obscurity might be the only options. Then again, as I said above, if MS is broken up, it could well be a whole different ball game.
On a more off topic note, I'd like to thank you for the only reasonable reply made to my comment, its nice to see someone out there is still thinking.
FYI! Robust software works when we have good groupware and steady management, calling all the shots. This Open Source solution to our Enterprise needs might be the ticket if we play our cards right. What I propose is that we keep each other in the loop on this one and try to steady the rains on thie project. If we can see our goals in our sights and work hard, we can get the ball really moving on this project of revamping our primary image in the PC world
- Kill Yourself, spare us all! -
Joe public doesn't give a damn about binaries or source code, he just wants a computer he can plug in and start AOL.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
That was probably caused by people hitting the site at work, where they use a Windows box, but answering the question thinking about their home box, a Mac. Since you don't always get a choice about what OS to use at work, the poll answers probably accurately reflect what those people use at home. And what one chooses to use because one has a choice about it is, IMHO, a better reflection of mindshare than what one is forced to use.
-----
The real meaning of the GNU GPL:
The real meaning of the GNU GPL:
"The Source will be with you... Always."
See, no, we're not.
We're competing in a market space.
Hence the "rhetoric" warnings in my post.... Any competition has to be played within the boundaries of commonly-agreed rules. The less and laxer the rules, the more "competitive" the situation gets... follow that to its logical extreme and you get competition with no rules including the prohibition on physical violence, ie war. Yes, reductum ad absurdio... but that's the what the 'rhetoric' tags are for.
It's only our binary-obsessed Western mythos
War is an affliction on all cultures and in all times.
It's not a war. It's a competition, in the capitalist sense -- everyone wins different sized slices of the pie, but anyone who has a slice at all is a winner.
No, that's not true. Well, okay, it is true... but not in the context of traditional capitilism. Capitalism is based on the assumption of limited resources and unlimited demand (driven by necessity or greed). A finite pie, and no slice big enough. In this scenario, the only way to increase your pie share is at the expense of your competitor(s). The theory is that this should lead to a balance of players, each struggling against each other and providing the consumers with the benefits of lower prices/better products (Smith).... the reality is that situation is easily made unstable and results in monopoly capitalism (Reality). Anyway, that's straight Marx and lord knows hewrote enough of it so my repetition isn't going to help....
You can say that Microsoft is treating this as a war, and so we need to react in kind, but I maintain that setting "beat Microsoft" as the goal of any alternative project is the death knell for quality
No, beating Microsoft is just a side effect. The real objective is to get onto the nation's desktop. If Linux gets there and people decide, after making a fair decision, that they would rather have Winders... well, so be it. The fact of the matter is that for a variety of reasons that have little to do with technical merit, MS has a strangle hold on those desktops. They will not invite their competition into this hearland, so "we" must go there without their blessing. Nobody fights a war for the sake of killing the the opposition. They fight a war to gain territory or resources or political autonomy. The fact that the oppposing army (well, the civilians mostly...) get killed is a byproduct.
I would like to state one last time, that war is a bad thing and were it not for the fact that we tend to glorify it in the eyes of young boys of the middle class and drill it into their skulls daily, I would probably never consider it an appropriate metaphor for anything.
2 1337 4 u!
At the Linux World Expo in New York in Feburary, ChilliSoft was giving out Microsoft Frontpage 2000 CDs. I think fair is fair. We couldn't have a Windows-free Linux Expo, so they shouldn't have a Linux-free Windows Expo!
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
Yeah, my last boss was a hunt and pecker (hehe) and he couldn't type more than about 10 words per minute (that's if he lucked out on his pecking). And his job was ---- Network Administrator (updated to systems administrator right before I left). I always think it is sad when a "computer specialist" has absolutely no idea how to type. He didn't belong in that job anyway. He seriously believed that the only good computer had Windows on it. It was also his plan to replace the AS/400 system in that company with Windows servers. Thiers some frickin' brilliance for ya!
Bite my yammer.
If we tout linux as desktop-ready before it can actually compete we run the risk of further entrenching the notion that our beloved OS is a toy for propellerheads and nothing more.
I beg to differ. It _is_ Linux ready. I'm a Windowshead who recently saw the light, and today got SuSE 6.4 in the mail. Sure, installation took a hellish 3 hours of copying files, but it was quite painless in terms of intellect needed overall.
Some dicking around with sax for X config, and some more fiddling with YaST2 (fiddling = total 10 min), and I'm multitasking in X listening to my favorite mp3s while reading instructions on installing JBuilder Pro and porting my Win32 perlscripts.
All this for someone who's never touched an X terminal before, and screamed at the thought of killing processes with -9 using PID. IMHO, Linux has gotten to be extremely easy to use. I can't see how to make it easier!
I don't necessarily think that "chaos" is the right concept... We have a very different organizational structure: 1. It's based on de jure rather than de facto authority. As Kropotkin said "in the matter of shoes I deffer to the authority of a cobler".
2. It's decentralized. Sure there're a few high profile folks, but by and large it runs at the klatch level.
don't fight conventionally when you can win a different way.
That comes back to the positional vs. geurilla theory. MS has a massive positional advantage in the desktop arena that gives them a huge advantage. This advantage (ie, fud, saftey-in-numbers etc.) easily offsets technological weaknesses. They're the VHS of the world. We're the 3/4 inch (Apple gets to be Betamax). Honestly, VHS is not a great tech... but who the hell is going to buy a 3/4" deck if there are only 3 releases available to rent and you have to drive to another province to get them? I'm enough of an idealist that I believe that if Endusers were given an unfettered opportunity to make an informed choice they would choose Linux more than Winders. We can't get to that position by following the MS formula, though. We need to move into the niches as branch from there. The server niche goes nicely so far and embedded is shaping up, but neither of those are consumer niches. Apple has desktop publishing and soon amateur video. What do we have?
And, as the original poster said, remember that the pie is growing - and we keep getting larger fractions
Yes, the pie is growing but the fractions are changing much more slowly than the pie growth...
And my standard disclaimer... war sucks.
2 1337 4 u!
Actually, that's a bunch of crap. You fight a war for territory or resources because there is a finite amount of those things, so it's worth fighting for.
The desktop computer market, on the other hand, has been doubling in size every few years, and has been doing so for almost ten years. Every day there is a bewildering array of new applications and new markets opening up, and Microsoft can't cover all of them. It's really just a series of lucky historical accidents that allowed Microsoft to capture most of the growth of the last decade.
The key to staying alive or thriving is to capture your share of new growth plus a little more. Apple's been doing this just fine lately, and now they have a healthy 10% of a growing market. They don't need to 'beat' Microsoft, because there is plenty of money in what they've got.
As for Linux, the theory is that if it gets good enough, it can capture some of this new desktop growth. It's all potential on the client-side right now. On the other hand, the server market has been growing faster than even the client market, and Linux is mopping up there.
This "only one winner" crap on Slashdot is juvenilia at it's finest. AMD is doing great -- Intel must be going down (not true). Linux and Sun are selling -- Microsoft must be having a hard time (not true either). All boats are rising in this internet tidal wave.
When I hear the word 'innovation', I reach for my pistol.
As you stated the Linux pavilion was dismal. Believe it or not, last year since Linux was "risky" it was off downstairs --however, they had a big Corel stand (with free distro's) and RedHat of course was there. Far more interesting displays in the previous years.
For the fun of it, I'll mention what I thought of some vendors..
The AMD folk were all cool. A woman took the time to just show me the PGA athlons and mentioned how the duron would follow the same path, they even had a big burly guy working there that didnt fit the corporate "mold." The SGI people on the other hand were holding electrical probes to zap us if we went anywhere near their displays. Intel had a decent sized section but their presentation was even less informative than the previous year (though the people were better). The IBM people had the "sweaty car salesman look" as usual. Transmeta had a decent presentation on the crusoe obviously.. heh, and they gave away little pretend crusoe chips (after they ran out of "fans." (Fans were handed out with them saying "The only fan you'll ever need"). Overall, I'd say the PCExpo better start getting more cutting edge and less of the buzz word ambush like it has become.
Let me make this as clear as possible:
We (as in Slashdot, not you and I) have a regular troll (as in moderatly funny offtopic poster, not the mythical bridge-loving hairy kind) who seems to have made a running joke (as in from the Laugh-it-was funny-the-first-five-times-but-not-now Dept.) out of the act of pouring grits (as in a hot breakfast food enjoyed by ninja and those south of the Mason-Dixon Line, not what you find on sandpaper) down his or her pants. (as in the cloth covering you are hopefully wearing over your legs, not what a dog does in summer.)
He (the troll) is affectionatly known as "The Hot Grits Guy" (for obvious reasons, the most notable is that we don't rightly know his name). If you would like, you can scroll (use that bar on the right border of your browser) down to the end of the page (as in this article) and see some of his (as in, The Hot Grits Guy) work. (as in, his posts.) While you're down there, look for "The Saga of the Troll War", "Star (as in hot young actress) Wars, as well as Mr. Patrick Bateman's soulful "Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these!".
.sig: Now legally binding!
I love the kludges that people come up with to make a product do something it was never designed to do.
gawd, i love the smell of napalm in morning... ...smells like, victory!
Slashdot headlines for next week...
Signal 11 makes worthless comment in worthless article, receives another +5 funny by worthless moderation.
NightHawk
Tyranny =Gov. choosing how much power to give the People.
Given that Linux has been ported to just about anything that is programmable, it wouldn't demonstrate much to be running it.
Windows on the other hand, is much pickier about who it runs with.
At this point in time, you would have to go hugely out of your way to design a machine that won't run Linux, and that would just be a thrown glove to the development crowd.
For the last year the linux-centric media (here included) have been blaring that linux is "ready for the desktop", "set for primetime" and "friendly enough for my dad". If you get most of yer daily quotient of geek news from said media, you might actually get into a head space where you believe that linux's domination of Joe Q. Enduser's desktop is imminent. If anything, this article is a much-needed reminder that this is notthe case.
Start rhetoric: We are fighting a war. A war against a very large, very well-funded enemy. This enemy owns most of the land and major resources. We are iquana-eating geurillas living in the hills, hiding under bushes every time a helicoper flies over. In any geurilla war, there comes a time when the geurillas have to make a decision to stop playing hit-and-run and move into the arena of positional warfare. The biggest threat to success is making that decision too soon. A few victories can swell heads fast and lead to brash maneouvers later on.End rhetoric.
Here's the facts: linux owns a tiny percentage of the boxes out there and then even then only in narrow markets. The Fatherland of the desktop is still far, far behind the lines. If we tout linux as desktop-ready before it can actually compete we run the risk of further entrenching the notion that our beloved OS is a toy for propellerheads and nothing more.
It's good to be reminded that the recipie-catalogers and porn-surfers of the world are winders zombies. It helps prevent hubris. We may celebrate the fact that the media has dropped "upstart" as a mandatory adjective when they talk about linux, but remember that Apple lost "beleaguered" two years ago and they still can't put a serious dent in redmond. We're still in the hills, Winders is still down on the convention floor... we need to remeber that if we are to have a hope of winning.
For the record, I think war is absolutely the stupidist thing humans have ever thought up. I chose the analogy only to cover up my complete lack of understanding about sports :)
2 1337 4 u!
First we had people complaining 'Slashdot is too Linux-centric, there's not enough *BSD/MS/Mac etc etc etc... Slashdot SUCKS!'
/. for two seconds, go grab the Slashcode and do better.
Now we have 'So what if the thing was MS-centric, we don't really care...this isnt news! Slashdot SUCKS!'... Geez people, if you can stop bashing
Simon
Simon
The real linux_penguin has Slashdot ID 101961. Anyone else is an impostor. Including Bruce Perens.
As far as I've heard they don't even actually design or build any of their own keyboards or mice. Rumor has it that all the design work is farmed out (or perhaps, as has been alleged against them in the case of their mice, stolen from another company), and the production work is done overseas by OEM manufacturers the same as most other commodity products in that market.
All that aside, that has nothing to do with the fact that I just plain don't like the design of their mice or keyboards. I never said they were poorly constructed, just that I didn't like them and why.
One beef that I have heard others in my office have with the Intellimouse is that they seem to occasionally freak out when the person switches their Belkin OmniPort switchbox and they have to switch back and forth again to get the mouse to come back to life. I've never had any problems like that with the Logitech MouseMan I am using.
I also think Microsoft's hardware products are rather overpriced. I don't think they'd be able to get the prices they do for what they are selling if it weren't for the blind devotion of the unwashed masses to their overadvertised brand name.
is this expo representative of linux's public acception?
Sun customers aren't put off by the mere cosmetics of the outside, despite the fact that the grey-purple color you mention is kinda ugly.
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
It is of course no secret that Microsoft has a huge marketing budget in order to easily make such an event heavily favor their product.
Regards, Ulli
Simple things should be simple, complex things should be possible.
I was bemused by the couple Linux areas. No freebies there, best I could tell. Everything was for sale, at quite capitalist prices. Get a 10-inch penguin: $20. T-shirts, sweatshirts, $20-25. Guess you have to make your money somewhere.
They had someone in a penguin suit meandering and falling down, which is what I thought Linux wasn't supposed to do.:)
--------
Oscarfish.com: tropical fish with attitude. Way t
Perhaps rather than whingeing about how (suprise suprise) the majority of desktops still run Windows, you'd have actually been able to tell us a little about the show. That has got to be one of the worst pieces of 'journalism' I've ever read...
They aren't in trouble. No matter what happens, they still have the bucks to make any "Mini Bills" into sizeable corporations in their own rights.
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
This dominance of a show was just one example of what we can expect. However, in the future we could have 2,3 or 4 "Microsofts" there.
Bill is still the worlds richest man. Bill will continue to be the worlds richest man - possibly it will make him richer.
Mong.
* Paul Madley
*...Slacker, Artist, Techie - Geek *
Remember: Nothing is Cool.
.......here at PC Expo, which runs through tomorrow here at the Jacob Javits Convention Center in New York City, it's almost all Windows. And Palm. ........
Thats because Windows is still the Biggest Fish and Linux would take an eternity to get there.
Just my 2cents
When in doubt - RTFM
Rapid Nirvana
Oh yes. It's important that the geek/tech culture observe what's going on in the rest of the world. Otherwise, our ideas are doomed to be marginalized. Being a nexus of geek/tech news is not Slashdot's greatest strength. Ultimately, being a nexus of geek/tech CULTURE is what makes slashdot important.
There is one tech expo here in michigan called ITEC held in Novi michigan..
last week when I went I had my LinuxFund t-shirt on and a tux the penguin in my pocket..To my surprise just about everyone there knew what Linux was AND many were showing off linux in software, hardware, training etc... I even got several Job offers.. (WOW!) last time I went to this show it was windows only.... Microsoft was even there two years ago.. but now things are changing. several people who didn't know much about linux stated that they NEEDED to learn it..
Well probably all they were talking about was Linux. I mean this is LinuxPlanet we're talking about. I'm pretty sure all that guy talks about is Linux no matter where he goes.
all these programs crash, maybe cause win crashes by itself. i want a cool edit pro that runz under linux. if u build it they will come (card developer driverz). and besides, cool edit is a VASTLY Superior interface. u can c examples of MY cubase recording/mixing/mastering (albeit @ only 16 bit) @ my URL : http://www.riffage.com/Bands/0,2939,12433,00.html check out set it right. that is the best mastered one.... i know blatent spam, but seriously... cakewalk sound forge and cubase all suck compared 2 cool edit 4 speed/ease of use and just raw usability. rhy
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
It's only the same as all the magazines with PC in the title, but only focus on Windows (although Linux does get the odd mention under the 'our major advertisers told us to say it was too hard' section). Times are still changing, this time last year there was only one magazine in the UK that had a Linux section, now even the newbie mags have the odd article (see previous sentence).
The future's bright, the future's Linux.
Try to look at it from his perspective: He sees NT as a perhaps buggy but certainly reliable system; a familiar quantity which he is somewhat knowledgable about. He sees Linux as an unfamiliar, mildly rebellious system which appears to be responsible for all of the problems in his way. The people who use Linux are elitists who are openly hostile to criticisms of Linux or any suggestion of using systems he is familiar with.
Clearly you're not going to win your battle for Linux by calling him a dope and trying to undermine his credibility with your research. Instead of being a snob and contributing to the universally bad image of Linux users, listen to what he says. Ask him real, non-hostile questions about his decision to use NT until either you are convinced that he has a good idea or he has discovered the faults in his logic.
"That was a wowser to Isiaiah, who was amazed "...that the people asking about Linux here are suits, not techies"
- --------
C'mon wake up people (and smell the coffee)
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It's life Jim, but not as w
Just nitpicking us-centric view.
Now moderate down as flamebait.
J.
I think I'll stick to my Tux beercap-opener :)
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Signal 11,
The dread donkpunch and I are planning a 'slashdot olympics' and we neeed you. Let me know if you're willing to put your reputation as ultimate poster on the line in the quest to bring home the gold.
--Shoeboy
I was there on Tuesday, from the moment they let corporate passes in, and I'll have to ask at least one important question:
/. has taught me), it still is the most recognizable series of images that you'll find on a CRT/LCD.
Did Roblimo just look at the entryway and go home?
Followed by:
What brand of crack was he smoking?
As I walked in, of course I saw more wireless tech. Last year, it was Microsoft, Compaq and Bell Atlantic Mobile close to the front. This year, it was Microsoft, Gateway, and GoAmerica (at Verizon's booth, according to the handouts)
Once you bothered to look around, though, there was the oft-proclaimed Transmeta booth, with Mobile Linux-powered WebPads everywhere, and Linus (yes, *that* Linus) was even around, if only for the one day.
Redhat had a small booth again, which leads me to believe that they just don't want to shell out the bucks for the extra space. But the Linux presence was at least double to triple its level from last year.
Of course, why would Windows have to much space? Hrm... maybe it's just a result of them having more money to throw at buying floor space. Remember, you can say all you want against Microsoft products, but you cannot deny their status as a marketing juggernaut. All you had to do to escape MicrosoftLand was walk about 50 to 100 feet out. ISPs were there in force, and yes, there were a lot of hardware demonstrations, totally isolated from Windows, PalmOS, or any UNIX variant.
Maybe to someone who seems to attend Open Source/Linux trade shows, it might seem that it's all Windows, but that just proves the narrowmindedness that has pervaded the minds of the Open Source Community. Sorry to tell you guys, but we're not there yet. Windows still sells, and while the Windows GUI might be unintuitive, and the OS might be unstable (or so
It all goes back to what one of the Toshiba droids said yesterday at the Expo:
"We're not going to support this 'Crusoe' chip you're asking about, because it's not Intel, and people buy the name."
I may have slightly misquoted that, mind you, but it's the same deal. If your product doesn't rely on an Intel chip and run a Microsoft OS, Marketing will lead you to believe that it won't sell. If that fails, then you're not going to represent the product, they'll just send marketing. Mind you, that one Toshiba man (and many IBM people) had no idea what Transmeta was!
As for the wireless, you can't be surprised by that. The recent release of Bluetooth, and the prevalence of 802.11 is fueling that, and can you honestly say that you don't like the idea that you can disconnect that one extra cable when you want to? Do you really want that laptop that you were assigned to need a dongle, another network cable, and so on, when you can just plug it in once the batteries are low, and that's it? The idea is that we're trying to make portable technology more convenient. That is the future of computing, just like shrinking computers, boosting throughput, and the internet were all the proposed future at some point. Now that those goals have been realized, of course the industry is going to change their (admittedly narrow) focus onto something else.
Raptor
Raptor
"Procrastination is great. It gives me a lot more time to do things that I'm never going to do."
Have you been watching the same IBM and AT&T commercials that I have? There is most certainly a major revolution going on. The crazy guy can buy stocks from the park using his voice, for gods sake.
Of course you're right, but people have always been fascinated by the new, fast, sexy stuff. That's not going to change.
<OT> What's starting to really piss me off are the genetics stories from the past 12 months. The headlines are like *big type* Gemone Project decodes entire genome, all disease and human suffering will end *little type* as soon as we annotate it and begin to understand what the hell is in there...maybe. It reminds me of *big type* You have just won ten million dollars *little type* assuming you have the winning numbers. I'm proposing a Slashdot ban on genetics milestone stories, is anyone with me? </OT>
-B
See...as I view it the real problem is MS and their money. How much of a break do they offer their partners and these people to be in their pavillion...on their side?
:)
Also, as I see it...and I am not just saying this because of my employer...but a big thumbs up for the companies who are selling both products and took the time to teach their representatives enough to run and talk Linux. Some of those reps haven't a clue and would be confused by the pause at a LILO prompt and shut the machine down.
1. Is it an enterprise-class solution?
2. Can I get it from an application service provider?
3. Is it web-enabled?
4. What sort of wireless messaging capabilities does it provide?
-cwk.
The 4th generation Pentium, code name "Willamette", will be be officially named the Peon.
I really suggest you don't hang out on IRC
;)
Um, your experience is not typical, and your argument shows a lack of understanding. Getting kicked before you said anything is more likly due to an over zealous idiot with ops, or a channel takeover, or a bad domain-mask for a ban that someone had set. Yes, sometimes Linux channels are full of big headed zealots, but there are plenty of other channels to go get help.
On an entirely diferent note, i suggest you don't use IRC because it's too damn addictive. On a computer at 4am and not coding? That'll be IRC then
Syllable : It's an Operating System
This is "news for nerds", not "news for sellouts". Since even my shoes run Linux, and I'll assume I'm not too far from average, an "all Linux expo" isn't too noteworthy.
Hope this didn't post twice...
Data East: "Leaders in Dot Matrix Technology" - Star Wars pinball
Sometimes network switches fry, that happened a month ago to me, I could'nt ssh into the server ... so I had to go to the console ... whose monitor and keyboard was multiplexed to save space.
Whoa there... I'm a Palm IIIc user and proud of it! Not all the screens are monochrome my friend.. this baby has beautiful color, gets great battery life, and has the BEST handheld OS around (Palm OS is a LOT better than CE - much smaller footprint, overhead, program overhead...). And the screen is not "smudgy", it's actually quite clear. And graffiti is a wonderful method of data input. Go get yourself a Palm and learn what you are talking about before you go post on Slashdot. I can't believe you got a 5.... some moderator must be crazy, you should be at -1 for not knowing what you're talking about.
-Agelmar
Ack! I forgot to set my threshold to 5.... that post was already at zero... Correction to previous psot: I can't believe you're still at zero... some moderator should knock you down to -1
Sorry
-Agelmar
It could have been worst!
At least, they have Jon "Maddog" Hall as one of their speakers to talk about Linux...
Mario.
I saw an MSNBC piece on PC Expo yesterday morning. Standard useless fluff, but as the voiceover talked about how handhelds and wireless were the craze, yadda yadda, they had video clips of the products. The main one was of a palmtop (didn't catch the brand) obviously running WinCE. Just a couple seconds into the shot, after a few stylus taps on the screen, a window titled "FATAL APPLICATION ERROR" filled the screen, and the user spent the last several seconds of the clip pressing various places on the screen in an evident and futile attempt to close the error window. Priceless.
A button: Ignore 'funny ratings'
It can be a pain in the *ss to find out that
from 10 contributions with thresholds > 1
4 are such 'funny' ones.
But eventually I seem to lack some humor because
often I would describe such high scoring 'funny'
postings with the simple word: 'stupid'.
Their rating sometimes tells more about the
intelligence of the rating person than the rated
posting itself. IMHO.
And this is no fun.
You know, there *is* (rarely) still a need to get to a console, even in bsd/unix/linux. If you had three linux boxes in your computer room, would you want three monitors and keyboards (mice are pointless) or only one of each? Or, would you rather have to hook up a monitor and keyboard manually when something fried?
Here in Europe we've gotten over the e's. Now everything is m :-)
OK, we've got "e-mostly everything" covered so now we're getting "m-the first things", like m-commerce (being able to buy using mobile whatever, usually cell phone), m-business (being able to create an order using mobile whatever while at customer's place), and so on. I'm surprised they haven't invented m-communications (being able to talk to that cell phone).
Yes, I do believe in e-economy (and m-economy) for what's it worth. But not in the hype-form. It's much more than the hype shows, and most of it will happen in the background.
I can remember back when "Newsflash: Technology Trade Show Not Linux-Centric" wouldn't exactly have been a presses stopper.
Bam. Free Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer and Natural Keyboard Pro.
:-)
Yuck. They tried to give those items to me here at work, however, I rejected them in favor of a more normal (non-warped) keyboard and a true 3-button Logitech MouseMan which Iscavenged out of the parts bin.
I don't like the shape or feel of Microsoft's mice, let alone I want a true 3-button mouse not the goofy roller clicker thing in the middle. I would never be able to adapt to the warped keyboards, aside from the fact that they take up way too much desk space.
Besides that, I don't think I've ever visited Expedia...
Well, as someone who's actually served (I was a Sargeant in the Canadian Army), I'd say this is definitely not a war.
Except:
In a war, you win by imposing chaos on your enemy and allowing your units to function. Since we are organized chaos, it's hard for them to impose further chaos on us, and easy for us to impose chaos upon them.
Some simple things to keep in mind:
Don't let the enemy impose the rules. Impose your own rules, define your own battlefield, determine your own objectives. Maybe we don't want to do GUI stuff for p0rn users. Maybe we don't want to seemless integration in one box. Maybe we don't want to make security easy so we're easy to hack.
Don't worry about the bucks. Let the corporate greedheads worry about the bucks. You want to change the world. Money is just a method to measure how much control one has of resources. MSFT has lots of that. But if we undermine control and reestablish the valuation system, we devalue his currency. Just like the British Secret Service counterfeited money to win the Falklands War - don't fight conventionally when you can win a different way.
Ain't nothing wrong with fighting on the Server Front. Who cares if it doesn't have fancy graphics - what do we use those for, anyway? Slide show presentations? Now, if you can crank out MP3 files and PNG faster, that I might care about.
And, as the original poster said, remember that the pie is growing - and we keep getting larger fractions. This is good, and MSFT knows it. They may talk about selling 3 million W2K licenses, but how many of those had some guy install Linux on top of it? A heck of a lot, that's for sure.
Will in Seattle
They were also demoing a new webpad at the Transmeta/Crusoe booth. It was running linux. I asked about DVD playback and the demo man told me someone within the company(I forgot the name) is working on a software DVD player for linux. He said the webpad has plenty power to play DVD via software. Something to look forward to. Apparently a new company designed this webpad, a new one, not the IDEO model we all saw on the web. The guy demonstrating told me they were under agreement to not name the manufacturer, which released the prototype to them two days ago. It wasn't as sleek as the IDEO model, but had all kinds of ports and looked like it was somewhat expandable. He browsed over to Slashdot for me on netscape using the stylus. Very sleek. I can't wait. He says they may be out by the 4th Quarter of 2000. Expected price ~$1400. =)
oh yeah, and if you ever compliment a guy on his pants you are going to get some seriously weird looks.
some things are funny because they are repeated, try Robert Rankin.
bye bye karma :P
~ppppppppö
I agree on the Mandrake thing. Although I wasn't terribly impressed with the much-hyped "Graphical Install," (it didn't do anything the old non-graphical install didn't), I could see how it would be a big relief for Windoze crossovers. The install is not any harder than Windoze (assuming you choose all the default workstation class install stuff). Even my wife, who only cares to use the computer for e-mail and word-processing can use Mandrake (unfortunately "can" does not translate to "does"). All the people who believe that M$ is so much easier to install are simply uninformed. I installed Mandrake 7.0 and had a working anonymous FTP server and Apache Web server running without having to do any extra work (a lot of good it does on my 56k phone modem, but that's not the point...). Mandrake is good stuff.
Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
"goofy roller clicker thing"? I bought a logitech pilot+ once (with a goofy roller clicker thing) after i killed my original logitech pilot (true 3 button) mouse. Never looked back. ever. I was practically hooked on the mousewheel after using it for just an hour.
Right now, however, i own a Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer, and quite frankly, I'm in love with the last 2 buttons. I wince every time i have to use a button without those buttons, let alone without that mousewheel.
Another thing, the IME fits my hand quite nicely, contrary to the pilot+, which was so small, i constantly got a cramp whenever i played a game for an extended amount of time (5+ hour gaming sessions have been known to occur).
As for the keyboard, however, I recently went back to using an old clicky 286 keyboard, because i broke the (non-windows keyed) keyboard i got with my first computer (p90, 4 years ago). I wasn't happy with that, since i'd worn down the keys to a nice, shiny state... i'd even worn away 95% of the text on the "m" key... And I refuse to get a natural keyboard simply because it's different from what i'm used to. Heck, i've refrained from using this clicky keyboard up until now simply because the ' key is in a different place from what i'm used to (4 years of DEEPLY ingrown typing habits are hard to change).
Voting Moo Anyway!
Did you see a message something like this?
Create a normal user and log in through that account. Do not IRC as root. Banned for your own protection.
:^)
"Free your mind and your ass will follow"
I don't suppose you've logged on to irc.debian.org and joined #debian, or am I mistaken?
As for you being kicked out of a linux channel without saying anything does NOT necessarily have anything to do with what you did in that channel, but it DOES have more to do with how the two camps (linux and windows) are high profile... and high profile means lots of fucking idiots. You seem to have been the victim of just that, an idiot on your isp (or even better, lots of idiots). How are they supposed to deal with someone who continuously comes in and annoys the shit out of everybody? Simple. They shit the whole ISP (or a specific subnet of it). Happens in all the big channels on IRC.
For an example of idiots, look at all the Anonymous Cowards we get... and we can't even get rid of those.
PS: what linux zealot has NOT thought of going into a channel like #windows (does that even exist? i haven't checked) and say "WINDOZE SUX, LINUX RULZ!" (spelling fuckups intended, since that seems to be the general spelling skills idiots like that seem to possess)?
Voting Moo Anyway!
I used IRC for one purpose only... hang out with friends. Not friends i've actually met either... just people I like to hang out with because they're as technically savvy as I am, or they're just funny (no, i did NOT frequent one of the teen channels, or any of the high-profile chat channels (400+ users, all wanting to netsex at the same time is not my idea of fun).
However, that came to a halt a month ago, when i got so utterly fed up with the constant flow of idiots. It's very easy to say "but i don't want to RTFM, why don't you just tell me?" when you join a channel (and if it's a low-traffic channel, you might even get an answer)... however, whenever the channel is up into like 2-3000 users joining a day, answering each and every question becomes a chore... and thus you get disgruntled ops.
IRC is what you make of it.
Voting Moo Anyway!
The funniest thing I found at the PC Expo was the gift that AMD was giving out. By definition, it is a 'note holder' of sorts, basically a little cube that has a wire and a gator clip on the end that you are supposed to put notes/cards/etc in and have it stand on your desk. However, the concept is almost unusable with this item, so I prefer to call it the Offical AMD Roach Clip. Besides, people think its a lot cooler when you present it that way to them.
--
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
I have four or five of these scroll-wheel mice; under Microsoft Half-Life Loader 98 (misleadingly titled "Windows" in stores), it is excruciatingly annoying in exactly the manner in which you describe. Under Linux / X, it is crisp and snappy, not to mention consistent, which the MS HL Loader experience is not - same mouse, same computer, just different software.
Personally, I'm replacing all of my mice with scroll-wheel mice.
That's not the point of the PCExpo. So what if MS or any other company is hugely over-represented ? The whole point of ANY expo or conference is free T-shirts and CD's. I shamelessly took their toys and "Thank you very much...love your product...blah, blah, blah... Do you have any keychains ?"
I'd have to say that this is the exception rather than the rule!
Only earlier this year, our very own LUG down here in Australias smallest state was invited to run a stall at a local computer show. We gave away a stack of CD's of various distributions.
It was that popular that after a while we had to start taking peoples names and telling them to come back in ten minutes after we'd finished burning the CD!
Also, and slightly more impressively. Last year I attended this expo in Melbourne, where they had allocated quite a large section of the place to Linux, which impressed me.
But what impressed me more was that the LUG for that state were invited to have a stall at the event... all expenses paid!
They not only got the floor space donated, but most of the equipment as well... including a nice SGI box!
Maybe this is the way to go at IT expos. Support your local LUG!
"How much truth can advertising buy?" - iNsuRge - AK47
"How much truth can advertising buy?" - iNsuRge - AK47
have you ever used the "goofy roller clicker thing?" I too thought it retarded when first I saw it, but once I used it I could never go back to a mouse without one. it is insanely handy whilst viewing html, and nice in any other app with scrollbars, etc.
logitech has a comfortable, minimally warped one; the mouseman+ I believe it is named. its the same one bought in bulk and branded by hewlitt packard
try it before you knock it
Ehhh.. I'd probably be a little wary of the linuxplanet article. For one thing, it may be a tad biased. (I think I read a Mac Addict article that assured me the show was all about Aqua.)
For another, if you're a manning a booth and a guy walks up to you with a badge that says, "Press: LinuxPlanet" you might be skewing your sales pitch a bit to play up the Linux side of your business.
Still, it's nice to see an article focusing on the real purpose of these trade shows: Getting random crap with other companies' logos on them.
"Do you expect me to talk?" "No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!"
It looks like microsoft is trying to show that they are in no trouble at all...
I think Slashdot can be a bit self-serving when choosing news stories about conferences.
We hear lots of news about LinuxWorld conferences, but relatively little about other ones -- little about what was cool, or what was announced, etc.
There was a large Linux presence at JavaOne a few weeks ago, and there was barely a peep in Slashdot about it. This when JavaOne is the largest developer conference in the world -- 25,000+ people, almost 10k more than the Microsoft PDC, and almost every other Internet news site had large "special reports" dedicated to the conference.
Not saying that Slashdot should go ape-shit over the marketing hype that these conferences usually represent, but something is amiss when things are blatently ignored. (In my best south park voice: "NOTHING TO SEE HEAR.. MOVE ALONG PEOPLE.. Linux and Open source are all that exist. No one uses Java, it's slow... MOVE ALONG PEOPLE..")
-Stu
Slashdot headlines for next week...
Shame it doesn't work under Linux though (the scroll bit).
I am a Windows-head, and I'm not going to tell you to go with the flow.
It sounds like there's a lot of stupidity and/or ignorance in the upper ranks, which is bad enough. But your mindless MS Drone boss is aggresively stupid, which is even worse. You're not likely to find any more satisfaction in your job, unless someone has an epiphany. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that epiphany will come in the form of a fertilizer/turbine collision.
If I were you, I'd get the resume in order, and go find a job someplace where intelligence and open-mindedness haven't been downsized.
Every day we're standing in a wind tunnel
Facing down the future coming fast - Rush
This sig intentionally left blank.
While comdex is impressive, for sheer tradeshow hell, you need but attend the annual CeBIT show.
I's always amazing when you have to walk a couple of Km's just to get to our booth, and where people visit you by building, not by room.
Open Source Ronin
You think of Napalm when /.] KVM switches .] = :]/2 ?) /o\ & /o\
you see KVM switches, I think
of Napalm when I think of AOL.
Now the good old C 64
Conventions didn't have all this
blinking light c**** [gotta watch me
language, I found a "PORNO STALKER"
cookie in me sac mate I spent most
last few days on
are for the rootless, why shouldn't
they be voice astivated for the
keyboardless.
I got terminated by AOL, twelve
times between 5 & 7 AM; after about
15 seconds on line. Hopefully its the
local traffic of the conference.
The Andover Internet traffic charts
don't show any striking spikes or
packet lose in that time period.
I can only infer that they yanked
me to free up space for those free 6 month
subscriptions to people starting
E trade accounts.
[try it, then burn 'em, they don't
deserve any product loyalty. Anybody know
of their support number, where you can talk
to someone who can tell you what happened
to your mail? They sell what is a tax
payers right in most courthouses & libraries.]
They put poor Jim Baker in Federal Prison
for over subscribing based on useage. Aol
is now giving away MY lines & I can swing
for my mail.[women, they only want to use
your pop box instead of a fully anonymized
account that you can dial into from anywhere
in the Universe.]
(duz
Anyone for a class action suit ?!?!?
The only reason, they survive is they're
marked by the free Masons for protection.
Note their logo's similarity to the
Masonic Seal, the "Beast's Mark" on the back
of your dollar.
Looks like a match to me. Co Co
Houze bout yahking the seal & putting in
adds... Annuit Coeptis *Cisco KVM*.
Who needs a convention with new products
on the back o' bucks.
Yeah & I. B. M. the Z 80 big brother
which shoulda died of its own stupidity,
backing a lame architecture, lousey hardware,
anti graphics technology. They don't make
hardware, exactly. They don't write sofrware
exactly, their price structure is nearly
asamzin' as the A. M. A. but they don't
have needles in people's arms. All they
got are [I don't believe in irregular verbs]
the initials of the central Masonic Saint,
known, or so it seems; for getting a Pope
poisoned... Iacubus Berlioze [de] Molay.
Is this a computer Convention or are
we standing beneath the Tower of Babel...
waiting for it to come crashing down, w/ the
knowledge of our civilization within.
Our poor kids, seeing these things,
elected to not play out the hand.
[Dealin' w/AOL is better than Viagra for
givin' a guy an \\\\ \\ errrh... attitude.
Next time witch, get me a tie.
^ ^ ^
You can make many new friends
& rid yourself of strange maladies
by shouting out in public places;
"Damn Free Mason, female, fascist,
freaks [O.E.S.]are burning my [insert
correct body part here]
with MICOWAVE LASERS"
Yes, I'm an economcis professor, but you don't need to be one to see the utter misunderstanding of capitalism and the market system to see the nonsense here.
>Capitalism is based on the assumption of limited
>resources and unlimited demand (driven by
>necessity or greed).
No. But this is vaguely a description of the notion of scarcity. *All* economic systems attempt to deal with this, including marx. Furthermore, "limited resources" does not mean "fixed quantity of resources," and unlimited demand has nothing to do with market economics or capitalist thought. The problem is that the quantity available at a price of zero exceeds the quanity demanded at that price.
>In this scenario, the only way to increase your
>pie share is at the expense of your >competitor(s).
This is *not* market or capitalist thinking. Facscist, perhaps.
As a matter of fact, this contradicts the very *reason* that theses systems are argued superior: that they are the most efficient at increasing the size of the pie. You *can* gain at the same time as your competitor; market economics *can* be a positive sum game (though this is not guaranteed).
>The theory is that this should lead to a balance
>of players, each struggling against
>each other and providing the consumers with the
>benefits of lower prices/better products
>(Smith+).... the reality is that situation is
>easily made unstabland results in monopoly
>capitalism (Reality).
Reality? It is contradicted by virtually all of the data, at least in the United States. Over the past century, the portion of the economy dominated by monopolized and oligopolized industries has steadily dropped, while those dominated by competitive markets has steadily risen.
hawk, professor of economics
There was (sadly) no Corel booth, (contrary to the show listing) and there was no Be booth either, but almost everywhere you went people were talking about linux. As for the Crusoe booth not using Linux, maybe the 3 laptops in the front weren't, but there were several machines in the back (in the "home" section) that were running linux, and they said so about every 3 minutes to everyone who came by.
Granted the linux pavilion itself was small, but that's only because most other people didn't want to limit themselves. As a hardware manufacturer or software company, why would you want to restrict your market share to only a small part of the market? Better to be out in the open with everyone else.
-- Braeus Sabaco
Member of the Roman Legion
Customer/worker at Phenomenal Internet Solutions
This is SO educational! -- Kintaro Oe
People buy whatever they use at work. All this talk of interfaces and metaphors is bull. I've had to teach DOS before some people understood windows for the first time.
As for asses in IRC channels, I've noticed most people can't even begin to explain their problems clearly. What I can't understand is where the emotional fits come from. They're both frustrating, confusing, and disturbing to someone trying to help.
Forget rtfm. Linux could use some better manuals. Being uptodate is a red herring since last I heard email is still email just as it was years ago. 2+2 still = 4.
The problem is people don't even read dialogs. I'm sorry but there's a point where people have to grow up. There's no such thing as infinite convenience.
Finally, let's face it. You're talking about 30 years of innovation all at once. you want to teach people 30 years worth of shit? C'mon. It's not enough to just embrace users. They need to learn to go after the things they want. Computers aren't toasters. They're vehicles at best.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
LUGs mailing lists, newsgroups, they're slow as hell.
I go to them and they have no machines to show you how to do things.
To be fair however you're totally wroong about the demographics. Every type of Internet service is very varied. Unless of course you go to places where you have a fileserv flood. Or #openbsd. Then well you've gone to the wrong place.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Transmeta was there in a big way. Had a large booth with an audience section on one side, comfy office simulation on another and an aircraft area demoing Crusoe-powered pieces of hardware with scattered Linus sightings.
There was a small linux pavillion in which LinuxMall had a sizable booth. I came to the rescue of one of their salesguys who was mystified by the package on one of his own shelves labled "Yellow Dog Linux".
DVD was a big item this year with everything from jukeboxes to portable vid players being hyped. Another item in the funky neat area was the Pocket PC, whose main unit with the combo CD/floppy undocked was about the size of those old neon plastic nine-volt radios of the '70s. It's a mini Pentium running Windows but the booth exihibitors are pretty hot on Linux as apparantly they've made a licensing deal with Corel to get $300 ready-to run desktop kits.
No Mac action per se, but here and there the odd G4 with Cinema display for video demo and the scattering of imacs. The bulk of those network drives like Snap! have finally discovered the world beyond Windows. They've added support for both Linux and Appleshare/Appleshare over IP.
It was a relatively tonedowned show compared to PC/Expos of late but busy nonetheless.
I tried it, didn't find it terribly useful, although it was under Windows, and it made the text in the browser or other windows scroll either too slowly or with nauseating waves. In any case, I didn't like the fact that the wheel had a noisy and distinct clickiness in its action which made the scrolling jerky. Frankly, I think I would rather just use the 'Page up' and 'Page down' keys with my other hand.
Most of the scrolling gadgets in mice don't make any provision for scrolling sideways. I have seen one mouse that had a little Thinkpad-like 'Trackpoint' device on it for scrolling both up and down and left and right. That might be a little more useful than the wheel gadgets, especially since it would probably be smoother and quiet. I still want a real, reasonably sized middle button though.
phuc u beech!
Maybe it is because the PC vendors, dealing in a market with nearly zero innovation or product differentiation, think they have to resort to whizbang flashy gadgets while the workstation vendors can just stick to what works because they are dealing with a much more savvy customer.
hmmm, if that was your impression, I can see why it was marked down. Ah well, guess I'll just keep the obscure jokes in my head.....
--
+&x
Sorry, I've been to enough COMDEXs and SIGGRAPHs to know this is true. I'm guilty, too. These people have heard some Linux hype and "look, a free CD", and there you go. How many of them have the time and know-how to try it out?
I'm not saying it's not a good thing that 400 CDs were given out, and I realize a lot of us here do look at (if briefly) everything we get at these conventions, but let's look at who collected them and what is more likely to happen: they'll either toss it, or try it. Let's say half actually try it. What percentage of those will actually be able to install it, without killing their windows partitions, and completely hassle free? And if one little thing goes wrong, it gets tossed, and Linux gets dissed as being difficult. It doesn't matter if the problems were Windows related, or they just didn't know what they were doing, they will be much more forgiving of windows.
Frankly, after trying Mandrake (after all the rave reviews from slashdotters a few weeks ago), I'd be happier hearing that Mandrake reached 400 executives.
----------
Stupid sexy Flanders.
Well I submitted a story to slashdot about a site with pics from the expo but I guess I was denied. If you want to take a look at the new Crusoe notebooks or the new web tablet zip on over to Tech Toys. http://www.icashex.com/techtoys/
I find it interesting that Netwolves runs FreeBSD and puts Linux in their literature. When I was looking for Linux jobs, Netwolves was one of the interested companies; a shame that _anyone_ would say that they run a Linux shop when they are really a FreeBSD shop.
Why? Not because FreeBSD is bad. But companies that want to attract Linux-type developers should understand that most of us would be just as excited to get our hands dirty on FreeBSD!
Most people who use Linux are the types that want to broaden their horizons, not leverage their skills...I hope the marketroids and human resources people of small companies can be made to understand that.
I use Macs for work, Linux for education, and Windows for cardplaying.
Is this the same PC Expo talked about in this article? Which one's true? In this article they claim "fealty to Microsoft is the exception" and that everyone was talking about Linux. Surely things can't be THAT polar!
I'm not so concerned about which OS is in the booth, as much as I am about new goodies to plug into my machines. What's up with that wireless? And USB, FireWire, etc.?
Wish I was there..
wish
---
... is Marketing. They learned long ago that quantity is much more important than quality, and that once you have market share you control the game.
This show sounds like an extension of that philosophy. "He who controls what the consumer sees controls what the consumer buys."
It's a shame they don't put the energy into creating their products as they put into marketing their products.
---
Gort! Klatu Barata Nikto!
If Microsoft suddenly showed up at an Open Source convention and said "Here's Office 2001 with source code for *NIX", yeah, then I would be surprised. But as it stands Microsoft has the same monopoly share at the expos as it does with OS's in general: all of it.
Besides, I'm not a big detractor of MS at shows anyway. They give some pretty awesome prizes for 15 minutes of their time. I watched from afar while Sun was doing their Java presentation at one show, and the Microsoft presenter asked "OK, here's a quiz, where should you go for up-to-date travel information?" "Expedia," I answered. Bam. Free Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer and Natural Keyboard Pro.
Not bad for pandering to a major corporation for 30 seconds (and I can go right back to Linux and FreeBSD).
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
ROB ,will you PLEASE fix my account so I can start posting at 1 again instead of 2?! I want my goddamn PREVIEW feature back...
Facts:
;).)
1) E-commerce makes a lot of money. So does catalog sales (JCPenny, Sears, etc...). E-commerce is really just the simple progression of mail order sales onto digital media and communication channels.
2) Wireless data delivery, as in getting stocks and scores over you mobile phone, really isn't that big of a deal. Simple evolution of pager and mobile phone technologies, nothing more.
3) Handheld computing is just evoliving, nothing really amazing about it. Simple evolution of the calculator, in my opinion.
4) The marketing industry has simply blown it's top. Everything "E" is the current focus, and advertisers and media execs are singing all the way to the bank. They have taken simple product evolution in the consumer electronics industry, which can be related to the "revolution" of adding the freshness date to the bottom of beer cans, and made these "marvelous" to be much more larger than life than they really are.
Quite simply, the wizzards of oz are really putting on quite a show.
Maybe, one day, the media zombies of the world will start seeing through these inflated advances in technology and realize the actual, unrealized potential of technology and convince these buisnesses to bring _real_ revolution to the table. Or, at least bring the inflated costs of these products and services down.
(Note, this post was just an observation, no real point to it
That comes back to the positional vs. geurilla theory. MS has a massive positional advantage in the desktop arena that gives them a huge advantage. This advantage (ie, fud, safety-in-numbers etc.) easily offsets technological weaknesses. They're the VHS of the world. We're the 3/4 inch (Apple gets to be Betamax). Honestly, VHS is not a great tech... but who the hell is going to buy a 3/4" deck if there are only 3 releases available to rent and you have to drive to another province to get them? I'm enough of an idealist that I believe that if Endusers were given an unfettered opportunity to make an informed choice they would choose Linux more than Winders. We can't get to that position by following the MS formula, though. We need to move into the niches as branch from there. The server niche goes nicely so far and embedded is shaping up, but neither of those are consumer niches. Apple has desktop publishing and soon amateur video. What do we have?
We have heart. And I'd say we're the CD/RW and they're the VHS and Divx distaff. We win out, not because we're popular, but because it works. Never forget that - MSFT glitches are our friends.
And my standard disclaimer... war sucks.
You'll get no argument from me on that one. We need to be shiny, happy techie guerillas, who spend most of their time doing fun stuff and ignoring the MSFT enemy, because the MSFT values don't matter to us. We need good parties, Net connections that MSFT can't grok, stuff that's cool by it's nature, not stuff the corporate mindset wants to shove at us.
Party on, dudes!
Will in Seattle
I don't agree.
Microsoft is a _great_ mouse and keyboard company. Yes, they use to write software too, but that's not a very promising business. But as mouse company, they are here to stay forever!
Andrew
I attended it back in 1977. Back then Bill Gates and Steve Jobs manned their own booths. Hardware and software was very limited, people were more excited by it than now.
As I was getting ready for my job as an ASP/VB (blech!) programmer, I had the TV on. "Today" was on and they were panning through the crowd of goobers with "We LOVE Alabama" signs. All of a sudden, a "Linux Rules" sign pops up! And there, in the crowd is a giant tux suit! Then the moron anchors started talking about the "Pokemon" in the crowd. Did anyone else notice this??? What is the deal?
I *have* been able to find good help with USENET; I've found people to be very friendly. You should also try searching deja.com first to see if someone has already answered your question. Hope that helps. Just remember that there are a lot of losers out there who get their kicks by being nasty.
He definitely seemed out of his element, confessing to a reporter that this was his first time at PC Expo. When pressed for "the thing that impressed him most at the show", he hesitated, then answered that the huge IBM displays were "nice". I was having a hard time believing that this was the same guy who walked out to thunderous applause at LinuxWorld...
- Richie
The eBookman, Developer tools are GNU tool set - whole nine yards; MMC expansion, 8MBYTE ram for $129, and 16MB with back light is $229. Does MP3s too. First appeared in DDJ magazine about a month ago.
It seems mostly geared toward PDA's (Palm, Handspring) and Windows. Microsoft even had
:)
their "Freedom to Innovate" stand there giving out buttons and everything. It was quite disturbing.
I was disappointed in PC Expo. The "Linux Pavilion" only consisted of Redhat and LinuxMall.
(Which I picked up a copy of Quake 3 and the 'Microsoft closes its doors' poster.)
I also noticed BE was not there this year.
It was about 90 degrees outside and the A/C was working overtime to compensate for the 100's of warm bodies, monitors and computers there.
Needless to say, I spent a full 2 hours there, then went elsewhere in the City in search of cold beer and good pizza.
Fialar
My friend had to register at the actual computer terminal. It had a Windows frontend (what looked to be IE5 in 'Kiosk/Fullscreen' mode)
When he submitted the form, it blew up and I
noticed the little "Apache" tag at the bottom.
I asked the guy who was assisting people with registration if they ran Linux for their backend and he said he didn't know.
Fialar
Yes, there are very few people, and rightly so, in the industry who won't turn the other cheek for $. IBM knows that this convention was not for the Techie, but for the average user. Thus, Linux takes a back seat.
However, the fact that the "future" of computers (internet appliances) are running open source should be a telling point as to how these conventions will look in the next five years.
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
anybody see this wired article. Appearantly people just aren't going to PC EXPO or COMDEX like they used to! Must be the lack of open source. ;)
kick some CAD
In the 80's Digital Equipment had a small show called DECWorld. Held in Mass each year, and literally took up nearly every hotel for a hundred miles. Last one I remeber was at the World trade center and on the Queen Mary, to host all the exhibits and people. Needless to say, DECWorld is gone. I rmember lots of big shows who dominate and die, slowly. However the shows that grow seem to be equally focused on HW and applications, and have some level of appeal to the general perception, e.g. everyone knows what a PC is, and according to the appelate court, everyone recognizes that PC==Windows. The object lesson is still however about quality, not quantity, in symposiums. I'd love to have 20000 rabid buyers of linux products. I'd love 200,000 even more, but I'm willing to grow into them. I'm also willing to have 10 shows of 20,000 buyers, if the buyers are diferent in each venue. That appears to be a risk to Linux acceptance. How many shows do you go to that have the same faces, same speakers, same everything. In a former life managing Ada products, I could correctly pick over 50% of the attendees each time. I'm beginning to feel that way about Linux shows.
Open Source Ronin
What's up with people with low userid's? The last I knew, all the new users had ID's of 200K+!!!, and even many of them are well aware of "hot grits", and sengan...
Well, since you've (presumably) had such a high comment threshold for ages, I'll fill you in. "Hot grits" is approximately a year old. I'd say it was a popular troll sometime in the (northern) summer or fall of 1999. It was around the same time that the Natalie Portman thing got started, so no earlier than May of last year.
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E2 IN2 IE?
M$ owns the market. Linux is growing in popularity but its not that big yet. yea.
Linux shows are niche shows. Glad to see that someone at Slashdot decided to walk out into the real world. When is the Linux community going to realize that they have a chance at the server community...but the desktop is beyond their grasp. Why? Largely because the end user likes something that is familiar from computer to computer...not a different GUI for every workstation.... Couple that with the elitist attitude that most Linux Hacks display and you've got your reason. Personally I think Linux could be the better operating system, but I still use Win98 & Win2000 on my home machines because every Linux IRC channel that I've asked a simple question in has been filled with some of the biggest asses I've ever met. Embrace your new users instead of trying to trump them and see the difference. PrimalChrome