Generally my line of thinking is that, if a federal law were passed tomorrow and was upheld by SCOTUS outlawing all firearms, I would probably begin to procure as many said firearms as I could.
Pure macho fantasy. All of the gun owners who stands up to the US government are either dead or in jail so don't tell us about how you will stand up for your rights when they take away all the firearms. Why not start earlier, before they restrict you down to that unassembled 28" 20 gauge shotgun, locked in the police station. I love my firearms and they will probably work well again street thugs but in a democracy I rather stick to voting and non violent protests.
You think it's okay for you to disobey SCOTUS regarding firearms, but it's not okay for someone to speak up and push the boundaries of free speech? You do know that without free speech your firearms are pretty much useless you like suicides or prisons or just chaos. . . .
Just a reminder, the UCLA police officers who was trigger happy with his taser got away with it. . . . . I hope this UF incident will have a different outcome.
What kind of logic is this? By the same argument, Hilter had the right to keep Europe to himself and the we should have respected the right of USSR to keep Eastern Europe under its control.
Everyone has the right to be free. Just because GW Bush and big international corporations are willing to capitulate to China doesn't mean the rest of us should. Like others has already pointed out, you can't use conditions in late 1940s Tibet as justification for current Chinese occupation of Tibet. Dalai Lama was born into a system of inequality but at least he grow up to be a man advocating equality and peace. On the other hand, the Chinese Communist party started as a party of equals but eventually evolved into a oppressive regime of one.
Regarding Chinese investments in Tibet.. . . Maybe you can ask the Chinese how they feel about foreign investments in China prior to WWII when coastal China was divided up among the world's superpowers of that time. Did they like that experience? is not, why should they expect the Tibetans to welcome the Chinese occupation.
C'mon guys, what's the matter. . . our hands getting soft on China from all the "Made in China" stuff we've been buying over the years?
Well. . . not exactly. You may have to dig a little deeper on the Chinese culture. The dialects of China may very from place to place, however, culture and heritage are mostly homogeneous for the "Han" Chinese that make up the majority. The "Han" Chinese is probably what you are referring. Tibetans and other white Muslim minorities unfortunately do not share their culture and heritage with the Chinese and probably view the Chinese with their "Han" biased policies backup with guns and authoritarian rule more as a threat than "cultural diversity"
Please don't confuse the plight of the ethnic minorities in China withe pseudo cultural reasoning. China has no historical claim over most of the outer ethnic minority regions it current controls.
Free trade with free nation. China is not free. US is not doing so well these days but at least every 4 year we get a chance to vote the dictator out of office.
"Seems there's a catch 22 with these sorts of things. I don't exactly like China's government and whatever, but I think every government faces something similar to this: which is worse, crime or total surveillance?"
Crime rate is controllable by government policy. I don't see it as a Catch 22 situation. The government has plenty of other tools and policy to reduce crime rate without resort to total surveillance. Why don't the government start the the total surveillance on itself and be transparent and accountable to its citizens?
How come there this talk of Debian being endangered by Ubuntu. After RH7.0 I switched to Debian and am quite happy with Debian. I used to run unstable and I still do for my laptop (thinkpad T23), but my desktop (Intellistation 6221 dual xeon) now run stable(etch). I have dual screen, open-gl, and cd-burn works all on my desktop. The assorted servers from mail, web, to fax all runs Debian. I did briefly tried Ubuntu(Dapper Drake) but it was quite similar to Etch and I don't see enough of a change to justify switching. . . Who knows, maybe I don't see the difference because I'm not running the latest hardwares.. . .
Sure, Debian may have slowwwww release cycles, but a couple apt-get dist-upgrade and you can be running Sid and be on the bleeding edge. I tend to agree with the philosophy of Debian more so than with Ubutnu. I do view Debian as more open due to the fact that Debian tries to support more platforms . . . maybe one day I'll be one of those people running those obsolete hardware. . . wait. . . I AM trying to turn a spare Mac Cube into a Debian wireless AP/network storage. . . .
I don't think anyone is endangered by Ubuntu. . . . I'm sure other distribution maybe jealous of Ubuntu's growth, but Linux is all about choices. If we want convenience we would probably all switch to Mac's. . . . But I want the ability to maximize my relative limited budget by buying used PCs and though most everyone in my family are now running around with cool looking MacBooks I can at lease flip my systems over and not see "Assembled in China".
Actually, I do. I avoid ALL products made in China if there are alternatives I can find and afford. For the same reason, I choose Creative Zen Version M over iPod. I also buy New Balance shoes or Matterhorn boots made in the US. I do my best and I'm satisfied knowing that at least I did my part. The last time I check, Lamy, Namiki, and Pelican fountain pens are still made outside of China and I use Moleskine note pads. So, yes, I do my sure my pen and paper at not made in China. Unfortunaly, it is becoming harder and harding to to avoid product made in China.
Face with cheaper products most people may have forgotten about Tiananmen but I have a hard time letting it go. . . . . maybe I should stop listening to RATM. . . . who knows. . .
Why would anyone buy a computer from a company that's owned mostly by the Chinese Government? Not everyone. I just upgraded to a P3 1.13Ghz T23 from a 800Mhz T22b because I can't located a T4x that is made out side of China. I love my Thinkpad, but I love my freedom even more. Hey, US is far from perfect but China is much closer to hell, unless you're part of the ruling class.
For web browsing, emailing, and ssh my T22 worked great with Debian Sid and T23 is the same. SXGA+ is great but unfortunately I think my T23 will be the last Thinkpad I'll own. Despite the pretty name, Lenovo is still a part of the butcher shop.
I'm the second person who cares. Typing away on my Mexican made T22 , everything except the CPU has been replaced either under warranty or from parts found on ebay. The replacement 1400x1050 screen I found on ebay is great and Debian gave new life to the T22. I like the newer T series but could never get over the fact that they were being assembled in China. Now that thinkpad is owned by Lenovo I long longer agonized over wanting to buy a new thinkpad. For a while the Powerbook was a alternative candidate but the newer Apple laptops are also made in China.
I don't agree with the US foreign policy on either Cuba or North Korea, but China is neither. Years of economical growth has not encouraged democracy as we have hoped. Rather, economic growth was used to pacify the few who are most likely to speak out while the masses are silenced. I doubt if most college grads in China remember Tienanmen or even care. . . . and whatever happened to the free Tibet movement. . . .
Donno, when the T22 dies maybe I'll switch over to Sony or Asus. . . . but definitely not a Levono . . . . no thanks, I rather not fund the future ICMB what will be aimed at me.
I agree, however, given what I've seen so far I have a little more faith in the Dalai Lama than your Chinese communist leaders. I'm sure there will be minor stumbles here and there as Tibet separates religion from government, but if the US and most of Europe can do it I don't see why Tibet can't.
Your right, same shit diffent package, but at least it's their shit and not the communist Chinese shit. Like wise, we flush our own shit everyday without complaints but we sure hate to flush other people's shit.
"Free Tibet"... Wow..people still remember... Life has become quite hard for us who boycut products made in China. Thinkpad moved their production to China after T23 and is now owned by a Chinese company. Apples are almost exclusively made in China these days. I'm okay with products made in Taiwan, but even Taiwanese made products are becoming a rarity these days.
I like iPod, the new MacBook Pro but just can't bring myself to buy them becaue they are all made in China now. . . even with heavily discounted academic pricing... sigh. . ..back to my old T22. . . . should have bought them a couple years ago when they were made in Taiwan.. oh well.. too bad.
Re:Taiwan China ...
on
Spam from Taiwan
·
· Score: 1, Interesting
Saying Taiwan and China are both China is like saying both England and Australia are Great Britan. Taiwan was a part of China till China forked it over to Japan 100 years ago. Go back a few more hundred years, Taiwan belonged to the Dutch, whom I think is the first county to officially plant their flag and call it their own. . . . Most Taiwanese are ethnic Han Chinese, but so are most Chinese Americans. . . and most Australians can trace their roots back to GB but that does not mean they are British.
Taiwan is Taiwan. Taiwan is is a completely separate policital entity, way different from China. . . . I think they're trying to impeach their president right now. ..lol. . . I like to see that in China. . . .
regarding spammer from Taiwan. . . . base on what I saw the geeks to nerds ratio is too low to product a sizable indigenous hacker population. . .
. ..and i believe china and tiwan are the two biggest manufacturors of knock-off goods. ..
Well, we can take some comfort in that in the case of Taiwan, we can deny Taiwan independence and sell Taiwan 2nd rate weapons at a premium, thus making back some of the money they made from us. . .
However, to be fair, China has pretty much lured away most of Taiwan's counterfeitting manufacturors with low wage and lax laws. . . however, software piracy is still fairly rampant in Taiwan.
Actually, I live in Taiwan right now and what you described is not what I see everyday. Most Taiwanese see China as a threat to Taiwan's political, social and economical future.
20 years ago Taiwan was rule under the one party system of the old KMT and it took a while to achieve the sometimes . . . okay, okay, quite often choatic democracy of today.
I feel quite sad that even the US does not want to recognize Taiwan as an independent nation...despite everything that was tought in grade school history clasees.. but then we also elected George Bush so. . . anyway, Taiwan does not teach its kids that Tibet is "rightfully" a part China because Taiwan itself is not a part of China.
Trust me, plenty of Taiwanese companies boycott Chinese products/labor otherwise everyone would have moved to China by now. . ..donno how long the remaining companies can last. . . haha, maybe I should do my part by buying another CMV lcd monitor. . . unfortunately, most people in the world cares more about prices than freedom.
We want to blame corporations for investing in China but in our capitalistic economy the corporations are really just a refection of their customers. I do my best to avoid products made in China which usually means paying a little more and getting by with a little less items and I can only hope others will do the same. ..
Taiwan is a part of China. . . Hahaha.. . which China. . you mean People's Republic of China or Republic of China, China geographically, or China culturally, or China as an ethnic group. ..or. . or. . .
Please, Taiwan is Taiwan and China is China. The idea that a government that rules without the consent of its own people to claim sovereignty over a democratic nation is ludicrous.
"Anoymous Coward". . . you better not be one of those hypocrite overseas Chinese who support subjecting other people to Beijing's rule while living else where. . . .
I think there is a difference between products made in Taiwan, Korea, Japan, or Malaysis and products made in China. None of the above countries, except for China has a long term stragetic interest in a weaker US military and economy.
As far as the Chinese leaders are concerned, US is just a economy stepping stone towards a mighty Chinese military power, ie a continuation of their authoritarian rule Let's not kid ourselves, if you think George Bush is bad, China is a thousand times worst. Whatever social unjustice you think exists in the US, magnify it a thousand times and you have China. Sure, life for the coastal "Han" Chinese are booming, but what about the rural peasants, especially the "non Han" ie, Tibetan, XinJiangese, or lives of social/political dissidents.
I'm of the TaiwanIndependence/FreeTibet crowd and and I do my best to avoid products made in China. I'm not 100% successful but I do my best. Sadly, this "made in Mexico" Linux T22 will be the last. IBM's customer service has been quite good to me and I have hard time contemplating between my love for IBM and my dislike of "made in China" T series, which is perhaps the main reasons why I stayed with T22... 800Mhz pc100 RAM and all. . . and it runs everything I need under linux...well most of the time. ..
I try to be an optimist, so if within the next five years a Chinese Michael Moore relases his/her orignal Chinese produced "Fahrenheit 9/11" I'll start buying IBM T series again. . . . Though I feel bad about the sale, I do feel relieve. Now I can start shopping for my T22 replacement. . . wow.. what's this DDR stuff. . and independent video cards. . in a laptop... wow. ..
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Pure macho fantasy. All of the gun owners who stands up to the US government are either dead or in jail so don't tell us about how you will stand up for your rights when they take away all the firearms. Why not start earlier, before they restrict you down to that unassembled 28" 20 gauge shotgun, locked in the police station. I love my firearms and they will probably work well again street thugs but in a democracy I rather stick to voting and non violent protests. You think it's okay for you to disobey SCOTUS regarding firearms, but it's not okay for someone to speak up and push the boundaries of free speech? You do know that without free speech your firearms are pretty much useless you like suicides or prisons or just chaos. . . . Just a reminder, the UCLA police officers who was trigger happy with his taser got away with it. . . . . I hope this UF incident will have a different outcome.
What kind of logic is this? By the same argument, Hilter had the right to keep Europe to himself and the we should have respected the right of USSR to keep Eastern Europe under its control.
Everyone has the right to be free. Just because GW Bush and big international corporations are willing to capitulate to China doesn't mean the rest of us should. Like others has already pointed out, you can't use conditions in late 1940s Tibet as justification for current Chinese occupation of Tibet. Dalai Lama was born into a system of inequality but at least he grow up to be a man advocating equality and peace. On the other hand, the Chinese Communist party started as a party of equals but eventually evolved into a oppressive regime of one.
Regarding Chinese investments in Tibet.. . . Maybe you can ask the Chinese how they feel about foreign investments in China prior to WWII when coastal China was divided up among the world's superpowers of that time. Did they like that experience? is not, why should they expect the Tibetans to welcome the Chinese occupation.
C'mon guys, what's the matter. . . our hands getting soft on China from all the "Made in China" stuff we've been buying over the years?
Well. . . not exactly. You may have to dig a little deeper on the Chinese culture. The dialects of China may very from place to place, however, culture and heritage are mostly homogeneous for the "Han" Chinese that make up the majority. The "Han" Chinese is probably what you are referring. Tibetans and other white Muslim minorities unfortunately do not share their culture and heritage with the Chinese and probably view the Chinese with their "Han" biased policies backup with guns and authoritarian rule more as a threat than "cultural diversity"
Please don't confuse the plight of the ethnic minorities in China withe pseudo cultural reasoning. China has no historical claim over most of the outer ethnic minority regions it current controls.
Free trade with free nation. China is not free. US is not doing so well these days but at least every 4 year we get a chance to vote the dictator out of office.
"Seems there's a catch 22 with these sorts of things. I don't exactly like China's government and whatever, but I think every government faces something similar to this: which is worse, crime or total surveillance?" Crime rate is controllable by government policy. I don't see it as a Catch 22 situation. The government has plenty of other tools and policy to reduce crime rate without resort to total surveillance. Why don't the government start the the total surveillance on itself and be transparent and accountable to its citizens?
"Debian is the most endangered of them all, . . ."
How come there this talk of Debian being endangered by Ubuntu. After RH7.0 I switched to Debian and am quite happy with Debian. I used to run unstable and I still do for my laptop (thinkpad T23), but my desktop (Intellistation 6221 dual xeon) now run stable(etch). I have dual screen, open-gl, and cd-burn works all on my desktop. The assorted servers from mail, web, to fax all runs Debian. I did briefly tried Ubuntu(Dapper Drake) but it was quite similar to Etch and I don't see enough of a change to justify switching. . . Who knows, maybe I don't see the difference because I'm not running the latest hardwares.. . .
Sure, Debian may have slowwwww release cycles, but a couple apt-get dist-upgrade and you can be running Sid and be on the bleeding edge. I tend to agree with the philosophy of Debian more so than with Ubutnu. I do view Debian as more open due to the fact that Debian tries to support more platforms . . . maybe one day I'll be one of those people running those obsolete hardware. . . wait. . . I AM trying to turn a spare Mac Cube into a Debian wireless AP/network storage. . . .
I don't think anyone is endangered by Ubuntu. . . . I'm sure other distribution maybe jealous of Ubuntu's growth, but Linux is all about choices. If we want convenience we would probably all switch to Mac's. . . . But I want the ability to maximize my relative limited budget by buying used PCs and though most everyone in my family are now running around with cool looking MacBooks I can at lease flip my systems over and not see "Assembled in China".
Actually, I do. I avoid ALL products made in China if there are alternatives I can find and afford. For the same reason, I choose Creative Zen Version M over iPod. I also buy New Balance shoes or Matterhorn boots made in the US. I do my best and I'm satisfied knowing that at least I did my part. The last time I check, Lamy, Namiki, and Pelican fountain pens are still made outside of China and I use Moleskine note pads. So, yes, I do my sure my pen and paper at not made in China. Unfortunaly, it is becoming harder and harding to to avoid product made in China.
Face with cheaper products most people may have forgotten about Tiananmen but I have a hard time letting it go. . . . . maybe I should stop listening to RATM. . . . who knows. . .
For web browsing, emailing, and ssh my T22 worked great with Debian Sid and T23 is the same. SXGA+ is great but unfortunately I think my T23 will be the last Thinkpad I'll own. Despite the pretty name, Lenovo is still a part of the butcher shop.
I'm the second person who cares. Typing away on my Mexican made T22 , everything except the CPU has been replaced either under warranty or from parts found on ebay. The replacement 1400x1050 screen I found on ebay is great and Debian gave new life to the T22. I like the newer T series but could never get over the fact that they were being assembled in China. Now that thinkpad is owned by Lenovo I long longer agonized over wanting to buy a new thinkpad. For a while the Powerbook was a alternative candidate but the newer Apple laptops are also made in China. I don't agree with the US foreign policy on either Cuba or North Korea, but China is neither. Years of economical growth has not encouraged democracy as we have hoped. Rather, economic growth was used to pacify the few who are most likely to speak out while the masses are silenced. I doubt if most college grads in China remember Tienanmen or even care. . . . and whatever happened to the free Tibet movement. . . . Donno, when the T22 dies maybe I'll switch over to Sony or Asus. . . . but definitely not a Levono . . . . no thanks, I rather not fund the future ICMB what will be aimed at me.
I agree, however, given what I've seen so far I have a little more faith in the Dalai Lama than your Chinese communist leaders. I'm sure there will be minor stumbles here and there as Tibet separates religion from government, but if the US and most of Europe can do it I don't see why Tibet can't. Your right, same shit diffent package, but at least it's their shit and not the communist Chinese shit. Like wise, we flush our own shit everyday without complaints but we sure hate to flush other people's shit.
"Free Tibet" ... Wow..people still remember... Life has become quite hard for us who boycut products made in China. Thinkpad moved their production to China after T23 and is now owned by a Chinese company. Apples are almost exclusively made in China these days. I'm okay with products made in Taiwan, but even Taiwanese made products are becoming a rarity these days.
.. sigh. . . .back to my old T22. . . . should have bought them a couple years ago when they were made in Taiwan.. oh well.. too bad.
I like iPod, the new MacBook Pro but just can't bring myself to buy them becaue they are all made in China now. . . even with heavily discounted academic pricing.
Saying Taiwan and China are both China is like saying both England and Australia are Great Britan. Taiwan was a part of China till China forked it over to Japan 100 years ago. Go back a few more hundred years, Taiwan belonged to the Dutch, whom I think is the first county to officially plant their flag and call it their own. . . . Most Taiwanese are ethnic Han Chinese, but so are most Chinese Americans. . . and most Australians can trace their roots back to GB but that does not mean they are British.
.lol. . . I like to see that in China. . . .
Taiwan is Taiwan. Taiwan is is a completely separate policital entity, way different from China. . . . I think they're trying to impeach their president right now. .
regarding spammer from Taiwan. . . . base on what I saw the geeks to nerds ratio is too low to product a sizable indigenous hacker population. . .
John
Well, we can take some comfort in that in the case of Taiwan, we can deny Taiwan independence and sell Taiwan 2nd rate weapons at a premium, thus making back some of the money they made from us. . . However, to be fair, China has pretty much lured away most of Taiwan's counterfeitting manufacturors with low wage and lax laws. . . however, software piracy is still fairly rampant in Taiwan.
Actually, I live in Taiwan right now and what you described is not what I see everyday. Most Taiwanese see China as a threat to Taiwan's political, social and economical future.
.donno how long the remaining companies can last. . . haha, maybe I should do my part by buying another CMV lcd monitor. . . unfortunately, most people in the world cares more about prices than freedom.
.
20 years ago Taiwan was rule under the one party system of the old KMT and it took a while to achieve the sometimes . . . okay, okay, quite often choatic democracy of today.
I feel quite sad that even the US does not want to recognize Taiwan as an independent nation...despite everything that was tought in grade school history clasees.. but then we also elected George Bush so. . . anyway, Taiwan does not teach its kids that Tibet is "rightfully" a part China because Taiwan itself is not a part of China.
Trust me, plenty of Taiwanese companies boycott Chinese products/labor otherwise everyone would have moved to China by now. . .
We want to blame corporations for investing in China but in our capitalistic economy the corporations are really just a refection of their customers. I do my best to avoid products made in China which usually means paying a little more and getting by with a little less items and I can only hope others will do the same. .
John
Taiwan is a part of China. . . Hahaha.. . which China. . you mean People's Republic of China or Republic of China, China geographically, or China culturally, or China as an ethnic group. . .or. . or. . .
Please, Taiwan is Taiwan and China is China. The idea that a government that rules without the consent of its own people to claim sovereignty over a democratic nation is ludicrous.
"Anoymous Coward". . . you better not be one of those hypocrite overseas Chinese who support subjecting other people to Beijing's rule while living else where. . . .
I think there is a difference between products made in Taiwan, Korea, Japan, or Malaysis and products made in China. None of the above countries, except for China has a long term stragetic interest in a weaker US military and economy.
.. 800Mhz pc100 RAM and all. . . and it runs everything I need under linux.. .well most of the time. . .
.. wow. . .
As far as the Chinese leaders are concerned, US is just a economy stepping stone towards a mighty Chinese military power, ie a continuation of their authoritarian rule Let's not kid ourselves, if you think George Bush is bad, China is a thousand times worst. Whatever social unjustice you think exists in the US, magnify it a thousand times and you have China. Sure, life for the coastal "Han" Chinese are booming, but what about the rural peasants, especially the "non Han" ie, Tibetan, XinJiangese, or lives of social/political dissidents.
I'm of the TaiwanIndependence/FreeTibet crowd and and I do my best to avoid products made in China. I'm not 100% successful but I do my best. Sadly, this "made in Mexico" Linux T22 will be the last. IBM's customer service has been quite good to me and I have hard time contemplating between my love for IBM and my dislike of "made in China" T series, which is perhaps the main reasons why I stayed with T22.
I try to be an optimist, so if within the next five years a Chinese Michael Moore relases his/her orignal Chinese produced "Fahrenheit 9/11" I'll start buying IBM T series again. . . . Though I feel bad about the sale, I do feel relieve. Now I can start shopping for my T22 replacement. . . wow.. what's this DDR stuff. . and independent video cards. . in a laptop.