Slashdot Mirror
China To Deploy World's Largest People Tracking Network
hackingbear writes "News.com reports that China is building the largest and most sophisticated people-tracking network in the world, all to track citizens in the city of Shenzhen. This network utilizes 20,000 intelligent digital cameras and RFID cards to keep track of the 12.4 million people living in the Southern port city. The key to the system is the new residency cards fitted with powerful computer chips. 'Data on the chip will include not just the citizen's name and address but also work history, educational background, religion, ethnicity, police record, medical insurance status and landlord's phone number. Even personal reproductive history will be included, for enforcement of China's controversial "one child" policy. Plans are being studied to add credit histories, subway travel payments and small purchases charged to the card.' While I lived in Shenzhen, there indeed were (and still are) plenty of crimes. One of my friend who lived at the 20th floor of a condo building in a nice neighborhood saw an intruder in the middle of one night while he was sleeping. Still, this will clearly raise the fear of human rights abuses. And ... 'one of the most startling aspects of this plan is that this project is mostly made possible by an American company with solid venture fundings.'"
They're getting social security cards. How nice.
This would be awesome if it was open to the public. As long as it's not just a way for the few to know everything about the many and engage in selective enforcement, it's towards the good. Go China!
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
Why bother. Why not inject an RFID implant in the arms off all citizens? I mean, if your going to be treated like cattle, why not go all the way?
Moo!
Life is not for the lazy.
HA-HA!
the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
I live in Germany and we still got democracy here, but who guaranties me that this will be like that forever? China's use of total surveillance should be a warning to us all, what can happen too us, too.
People always say: 'I have nothing to hide, so I am not against surveillance'. They don't realize that this might change.
I think this would work great in the United States. I just hope this will finally help us cut down on exploitation of children.
I heard this was implemented in 1984!
todo - The developer's equivalent of confession: "Forgive me Father, for I have sinned..."
Detroit, Newark, and a few select other cities. Perfect the technology in China on their Dime (Yuan) and when the terrorist!@#!immigrant situation is just right domestically, sell sell sell.
With all that information in one place, it would all to easy to associate somebody to an issue/crime (fictitious reasoning or not), deny them insurance, refuse entry to an establishment (RFID readers at the door)... Damn, I feel _safe_ already!!
A company out to make money, does it really matter where the company is from?
I'm sure if there are any problems or abuses, we're not likely to hear about it for a long time.
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
"One of my friend who lived at the 20th floor of a condo building in a nice neighborhood saw an intruder in the middle of one night while he was sleeping." Something doesn't add up here.
Fake ID rocks!
"It was terribly dangerous to let your thoughts wander when you were in any public place or within range of a telescreen. The smallest thing could give you away. A nervous tic, an unconscious look of anxiety, a habit of muttering to yourself--anything that carried with it the suggestion of abnormality, of having something to hide. In any case, to wear an improper expression on your face... was itself a punishable offense. There was even a word for it in Newspeak: facecrime..." - Orwell
Sure baby, I'll give you my phone number...in Hex
Now fast forward to America, if something like this did happen, and we had to implement a new cabinet position for the Head of the Department of Homeland Surveillance, how many people and what kind of infrastructure would it take to monitor 200+ million Americans? I don't think Americans would stand for it. Or at least I hope we wouldn't, but then again NSA and Homeland Security have been breaching this topic for months and haven't received that many obstacles...
"Thank you for using Stop-n-Drop, America's favorite suicide booth since 2008"
Obviously, surveillance should increase capture of criminals, if not prevent some. On the other hand... most people like being allowed to be private, for whatever reason - you don't have to be doing something WRONG to want privacy.
So, at the very least, it will be interesting to see what happens with this system.
"Even personal reproductive history will be included, for enforcement of China's controversial "one child" policy."
This is creepy. In that documentary called China Blue, it was stated by one of the factory owners that most of it's workforce is ignorant and too stupid to think for themselves. They really regard people there as illiterate simpletons. I don't know how well educated the population is, but it's a pretty crappy attitude and kind of epitomizes the human rights problems in China.
I wonder how long the chinese people will put up with this. I wonder how long the rest of the world will put up with it when it comes comes to their back yard under the guise of "Think of the Children" or "War on Terror"
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
Consider if China was supplying the tech to the USA.
That applies in many ways. Who wants to be watched? Assuming the supplier's government has a backdoor, do you want one government or two governments watching you?
RFID cards? I can't wait to see the buffer overflow on this scale.
by an American company with solid venture fundings.
:-) Let's not fool ourselves. Freedom is a dirty word in this post 9/11 world. It hardly gets mentioned in any of the debates or other political discussions having to do with the elections. The economy is all that matters.
IBM? or Singer?
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose...
What?
There is a more effective way to monitor the activities of people, it was widely used in eastern europe and was very successful, just let one part of the population monitor the other part, vica-versa. Yes, they will, if they are forced to.
1) Remove oponents. (Tick)
:).
2) Dumb down the population (remove the individual). (Tick)
3) Monitor & Track. (Tick)
4) Step 1.
5) Use data to make Step 2 more effective.
6) Step 3.
7) MIND CONTROL.
Now you and your friends live in luxury with 6 billion slaves at your dispense. What a warm fuzzy feeling
It really doesn't matter to me. As long as the state is fair I have nothing to worry about. When a brutal state arises, taking away one of the few liberties I had, wouldn't make a difference anyway. I have said this more than often: If you don't trust the state now, there are far bigger problems than cameras watching you.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
.... and in the long run, isn't that what the gov is supposed to do... protect the people? Since protecting the people has been the bread and butter to one US political party, I'm sure we will see this in the US sometime in the near future. I guess the term "red states" will have a double meaning. All sarcasm aside, if it was to be implemented here whomever would tie it to "child safety", to make the kids safer. You think I am kidding? Watch what they do w/ National Health Care
one of the most startling aspects of this plan is that this project is mostly made possible by an American company with solid venture fundings.'
For us Americans, there should be two fundamental questions on our minds: Who is this company, and how do we stop them?
god i'm sick of this bullshit. seriously, stop trying to blame the white man for EVERYTHING. this whole scheme is made possible by communist control freaks in china. they would make this happen with or without this company.
i mean come on, now it's america's fault when china does fucked up things? i'm not even american and even i'm sick of the retarded american bashing.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
China is deploying the worlds largest 'known' people tracking system. There are plenty of secret ones just as big already deployed.
slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
I, for one, welcome our new ever surveillant overlords.
Not all conservatives are stupid,
but it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
- Hume
Bush is just sad that he didn't try this first (on Americans as a test group, before tacking RFID's on actual or suspected bad guys) but since it's an American company doing this, which the government gets a cut of the profit on, he can't complain too much.
China? Nah, we need this in Afghanistan, where the actual people we're supposedly at war with are hiding.
Expect to see a new brand of identity theft in China. Brings to mind a scene from a movie (starring Bruce Willis) where someone's thumb got cut off so someone else could use its print to get access to sensitive areas.
Laughter is the Spackle of the Soul.
Keeping track of 'minor purchases'?? Whose business is it that I buy a pack of cigarettes or some condoms or whatever? Why is the government so interested in this petty stuff unless it intends to use this info against me someday? Why does the government have cause to know who I hang with, who I sleep with?
How long until cards like this are used to replace hard currency in order to 'fine tune' the economy and strip the last vestiges of privacy? How long until having legal tender in your possession is considered a crime because 'only terrorists have untracable cash'?
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
While this is scary, use of computers in everyday life necessarily equals loss of privacy as everything you do can be automatically scanned for patterns, archived indefinitely and disclosed to 3rd parties. If we don't want to be under constant surveillance, we as geeks should abandon our jobs and insist that critical functions in our society are performed by direct interaction between humans who, unlike computers, can be taught discretion.
Let's face it. This is our future. Anonymity is gone. Information is power and those that hold it will reign supreme over all others. It conjures images of SciFi movies involving the police seeking to hunt down criminals and suspects like Minority Report, Blade Runner, whatever, etc(Like databases like this don't already exist). Fear not, crime will never go away. It will become more reclusive and offer services to the masses in the form of data manipulation. The tweaking of those details such as health, eye color, ethnicity, and others will be sought after and the prices will be high on the black market. Thinking of landing that wonderful job, hmmm? Have someone dummy up your personal details to make the interview go smoothly.
I've been watching to much SciFi lately, LOL!
I've heard stories of EU CEOs brought to tears at the sight of so many disciplined, docile and productive individuals. China is the testing ground for productivism, although it has a distinct taste to EU citizens, many don't learn lessons. WWII didn't really wipe out the idea, just made it clear that some extremes and a certain marketing strategies don't make good press. But as Mussolini used to say: "the media is the 4th armed force"... and we'll soon cheer at the Olympics and praise... and admire and cry at the discipline...
Mi domando chi à il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
With RFID chips already embedded in your Passport and the ability of the Authorities to locate your cell through triangulation, the potential already exists here.
Signature applied for, Patent Pending
Why go through all that trouble?
Store it on the SIM card of the citizens cellphone and remove the OFF switch from the phone (force companies to only manufacture/import cellphones without OFF switches). Make the phone send an SMS to the nearest police station with the text "ARREST ME PLS" if the users neglects to charge it.
In that way, the existing cellphone network can be extended to tracking all citizens 24/7 using their SIM and EMEI id's (no need for upgrades anywhere except logfile data storage), no matter where they go. It even works without setting up new RFID scanners and without buying fancy new tech from contracting companies.
How many places do you think such a system is already in place? Do you always carry your cellphone with your without thinking about it? Do you ever turn it off?
(Hint: several hundred western cities in both the US and EU have near-similar systems for "polulation movement research" which they claim only saves anonymous data. Yeah right!)
- Jesper
My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
Wow, that's nothing like Australia, Britain or the US at all. Corporations and governments treat us not as ignorant, illiterate simpletons but as ignorant, illiterate simpletons with short memories. It's hard to believe we have it so good.
Indeed...
Attack its weak point for massive damage!
...but if this is as big a disaster as I think it will be, hopefully it will be a case study of what *not* to do for the rest of the world. I feel very sorry for China, and this only makes it worse.
~Eien no Inori wo Sasagete~ Searching for my Hatsumi...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113481/plotsummary
Johnny! Let's go! Lucky!
Is what EMP bombs are for.
Technology of the last few years has made this sort of tracking possible and governments everywhere will begin doing it. It's only a matter of time. Would Americans ever go for this? Maybe they would if it was sold to them as a way to fight crime, protect their children, combat terrorism, and prevent illegal immigrants from taking their jobs. Once it's in, like driver's license identification, income tax forms, or social security numbers, it will never leave.
I know that I come from a fairly small town and there are "safety cameras" popping up all over the place! How far are we in the United States from a security camera on every corner?
Okay... yes... I am paranoid but sometimes I connect the dots pretty well too. It's never a good idea to blindly trust that your liberties will be protected by the government. Hell, now days we have to protect our liberties FROM the government.
I think that the destruction of the middle class is going to leave a lot of people really pissed off. If a government decides that it needs to control and repress its own population wouldn't a world where "safety cameras" were everywhere be kind of handy?
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
the point should be that criticism should rightfully focus on china. but there exists a certain set of kneejerks who hear something is bad is happening somewhere in the world, plot a line to the usa through some creative incrimination, and think no more of the subject, instead all of their energy winds up in typical anti-american rants
the point should be solving problems in the world. on a case by case basis, sometimes the usa DOES deserve blame. but for some people, that's not the point. for them, the point is blaming the usa for ALL of the problems in the world
bizarrely enough, this rationale actually justifies american involvement in places like iraq. because if the usa were responsible for saddam hussein (as many people actually think) then it is the responsibility of the usa to remove saddam hussein. if you don't think the usa should be in iraq, then you need to begin to remove american culpability for so many wrongs in the world in your mind. because by you finding the usa culpable, you are implicitly asking for american involvement in solving the problem
in other words, anti-americanism has the perverse effect of furthering american involvement in places in the world it does not belong
there is a big world out there, and it does not revolve around the usa. unfortunately, some people can't think of the world in any other way except how it revolves around the usa. this makes them completely useless for solving many of the problems they actually feel very strongly about. for such people, their hearts are in the right place, but their minds are hopelessly propagandized to puerile america bashing, rendering them completely pointless and useless. loud, yes, but dumb
the proper attitude towards the usa is neither pro- nor anti-. because the source of real problems in the world, and the solutions to them, does not center on the usa. in your criticisms, if you always wind up criticizing the usa, you fail it. where it=understanding the reality of the world you live in, and actually solving any problems in it. you want to matter in this world, don't you? then you need to understand how places other than washington dc can be a source of evil, and your thoughts and words must reflect that realization
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Sorry mate, I think your humour is just a little too clever for slashdot. Perhaps you could try again with "overlords" in there somewhere.
Maybe they saw the sandman enter.
If you want to start a conspiracy, at least do like the other crackpots out there and use tidbits of informations to explain why you think China has "plenty of secret ones just as big".
"China to Deploy World's Largest People Tracking Network"
- We can now avoid embarrasing mistakes, like calling Greenpeace to help remove a "beached whale" that's just a "Large Person" sunbathing
- They take up too much space in checkout aisles - if we can track them, we'll know when its safe to shop
- You want to track which "all-you-can-eat" they're hanging out at tonight - so you can avoid it
- Tracking them will avoid conflicts in lineups because "they smell funny"
- Once we track them, we can make sure they're wearing their backup alarms
- We can implement "no-fridge exclusionary zones" for their own good
- In an emergency, we can locate them quickly, and line them up to use them as a defensive shield against, say asteroids
- Knowing their history, we can avoid buying cars they once owned, with their associated suspension and steering problems
- We can enhance safety by making sure that any elevator refuses to take on more than one "Huge Person"
- Instead of charging everyone more for junk food, we can only tax "Huge People"
Go, China!While Communist Party officials already have a big dating advantage, think of it now! They can scan the items of interest and get full details on children, employment, ethnicity.... Truly, for the modern Chinese Communist Party functionary, it's a wonderful life!
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
From the article: "Michael Lin, the vice president for investor relations at China Public Security Technology, the company providing the technology. Incorporated in Florida, China Public Security has raised much of the money to develop its technology from two investment funds in Plano, Tex., Pinnacle Fund and Pinnacle China Fund. Three investment banks--Roth Capital Partners in Newport Beach, Calif.; Oppenheimer & Company in New York; and First Asia Finance Group of Hong Kong--helped raise the money."
If American Companies cooperate with this sort of repression, and Congress does nothing to stop it, then America has forgotten what it once stood for. What a disgrace.
no wonder it's being implemented in China.
Bollocks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Sockets_Layer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_netwo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source
And finally, but not least:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy
And before somebody goes to mention the failure of a particular country to implement the latter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_represe
In short, there is no reason why you can't keep private information private, there is no reason why you can't ensure that all systems that can potentially be used this way are open and transparent to the public so any attempt to pervert them is readily detectable, and there is no reason why government could not be run in such a way that this is mandated by law.
But of course, we need to safeguard that precious "intellectual property" so instead we should have closed systems, with no oversight , prohibit people from guarding this "privacy" nonsense and use a form of government which centralises control in a small amount of institutions and parties.
Oh, btw, this post was made through a number of heavily encrypted nodes ( think multiple SSH jumps ) , so at best you will find the organisation that hosts my shell ( which incidentally is not in the same country as either me or slashdot's servers ).
Police state done right! Impressive! Stalin would have been so proud!
Seriously, people, look at this. This is what is possible today. Even more will be possible tomorrow. And with all this terror-meme going round, this is what every right-wing politician wants. Pity the states that have only right-wing left, like the US. Time to think about whether you want to live under such conditions. And to start doing something about it if you do not want to.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Simply bad formatting before breakfast.
That if you aren't big, you can't track the network?
If you don't want fans or critics then don't use an account. Although don't expect everyone to blindly accept your theories as fact without any evidence that you always avoid providing.The population has as much control as it allows itself to. There are ways to fix the problems you regularly complain about. You refuse to do so and continue ranting on Slashdot which does nothing to help anyones situation.This old unsupported claim again? Get some new material.Yeah, right. You're homeless. You're the traditional rock bottom of the class. Yet here you are posting on Slashdot and accessing the internet. Getting free meals each day. Living in a sanitary environment. Try to pull this 'homeless', 'I'm opressed', 'I'm the victim' bullshit in anywhere besides North America or Europe and you'd be dead in a month. The U.S. has its problems. Allowing idiots like you to leach off society is one of them.You continue saying one thing and doing another. The problem is your ego. You refuse to accept anything that is "below you". You fail to realize you really aren't the God king you seem to convince yourself you are. You aren't any greater than the average citizen.
The mods are buying this shit, once again. Thanks for helping to decrease the already low signal to noise ratio we have here.
We have the technology to automatically locate a camera and track it with a laser.
High power lasers are easy to get.
We have the platform.
Who's going to take the next step and but a device that can autonomously clear all the cameras from a given area? Mount a camera detector/tracker on a autonomous plane, also mount a high powered laser programmed to pulse when locked onto a camera and set it free in the area you want cleared of cameras?
You want to be absolutely sure it is a camera it is locking onto and not someone's eyes (reduce the chances of error by operating at 3am when few people are about) but surely that is solvable?
Congratulations, themushroom! You win today's asshole award!
But for the most part, tracking ethnicity is a spectacularly bad idea, and tracking religion is not only worse but also much less reliable because it's not a constant. Ignore the questions of whether your mom thinks you're still a good Catholic and can look up whether you've shown up at Mass lately or see that you visited the Zendo down the street or guess about that party on Solstice (or, ahem, May Day) where most of your friends are pagans... (and at least the database won't let your mom see whether you're gay, probably because in China that's Just Not Talked About.)
Ethnic cleansing is a lot easier if you've got a database saying where all the members of Ethnic Group X live in your town*. And if you don't want to hire Jews, you've got a database that says who they are. And it's much easier to get the no-fly list right when you can tell if somebody named Malik Muhammed is African-American (ok, he's just one of Those People, and make sure to give him the kosher airline meal) or Arab (he goes on the list.) I'm sure China has their equivalent issues about which ethnicities get privileges and which don't, even outside of special provinces like Tibet.
And at least it's just China - in most of the Moslem countries, if you weren't born a Moslem, that's usually ok, though you might have to pay a tax, but if you were born a Moslem and you've converted to other religions, Sharia says you have to either convert back or die, and even in the more moderate countries like Egypt, they'll throw ex-Moslems in jail for preaching the wrong religion, as happened to friends-of-friends of mine back in the 80s. In some countries they've got Sunni-vs-Shia issues that are better off not having database support, and I don't know what happens if you convert to another branch of Islam such as Sufiism. And the Baha'i also seem to be a special always-infidel case.
* I get to mention the ethnic-cleansing-rounding-up-Ethnic-Group-X example without triggering Godwin's Law this time - one of the people at the party I was at last night was talking about how he didn't know two of his grandparents because they didn't make it back from the Japanese-American internment camps during the war (he wasn't doing a political rant - he was dealing with his aging mother's house, where there's still stuff of his other grandmother's as well.) One of the joys of living in California is the wide variety of people you get to be with - most of the examples I gave above are for people I've seen recently, though a few were people I hadn't seen in a while and one or two were from recent news.
* And the one person I've known who *was* a potential suicide bomber is presumably not on the no-fly list; he was a college student in Japan during the war, and was considering volunteering to be a kamikaze pilot, but one of his professors talked him out of it. I worked for him about 30 years ago - his war history didn't stop him from having a US security clearance. (Do I still get didn't-trigger-Godwin's-Law credit if I mention the tattoo his boss had on his arm? Probably not. )
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
just reading this, because next month, or next year, some enterprising young congressman/senator/governor is going to suggest the same thing. and that folks, will be the day i leave the US for good, not that it might not happen sooner.
this has nothing to do with the security of the populace, and everything to do with making them afraid of ever doing anything to threaten the government. thats its only value. your credit rating? (by the way, those of you who don't live somewhere like new york might find it interesting that your credit rating is checked when you rent an apartment, itself another form of control, because those same people you're renting from can harm your credit rating by claiming unpaid/late rent, if for some reason they don't like you or you complain. it can be fixed, but the burden is on you).
i won't even think about what happens when you combine this with the installation of readers at polling places.
oops...
...vividly encapsulates that post-Watergate/pre-punk/coked-up moment when you could trust no one, least of all yourself.
It's on a lot of tshirts - think globally, act locally. Ultimately people overseas do not care a lot about you no matter where you are so that all you can do is complain to the locals that do these things for them. Also there is the fallout of people that do nasty staff overseas eventually come home and may do it locally. For instance (in an extreme example) the USA is in no way responsible for what governments do in Algeria and even Syria but those working in brutal joint operations (even in Syria - the "rendition" thing against terrorism) are not just complicit in those operations but can bring home bad habits.
Those of you in the so-called Western "democracies," save this article and read it often. For it is your future.
"Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket." -- Eric Hoffer
doesnt sound too far fetched now...
There are only a few steps left to make this the mark of the beast. making all purchases possible on the card/chip and to implant the chip... and all that technology is already here...
Revelations 13:16-17
"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads, that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark..."
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
Would I ever be forgiven for saying, 'Oh good! Finally someone is working towards a world in which there are no turnstiles in the subway, in which I can legally pick up a sandwich and walk away, in which I don't have to spend an hour filling in forms to get access to services that are supposedly mine by right, and in which I don't have to worry that, as a single person, if I went out one evening and never came home it would be a month before anyone even noticed, that if I passed out at home, no help would ever come?'
It is not, of course, that I am blind to the vast potential for abuse of any such powerful technology, but not one comment here has suggested that that anyone in the audience has even noticed that there could be actual benefits for the average citizen. Is it because slashdot hates the Chinese so deeply? (Certainly the general distrust for the Chinese government here seems quite at odds with the competence and practicality they have been showing lately, especially in the context of the complete disregard for the rule of law that the US has been evidencing at the same time.) Or is it just that by now the governments of the English-speaking 'developed world' have become so bad at watching the watchers that we have come to think that effective oversight is a theoretical impossibility?
And then, all politics aside, this thing will come to pass, thorughout the world, and perhaps our effort should be devoted to studying it, understanding it, and working out how to make the benefits actually outweigh the costs. As a few enlightened individuals have commented, one important factor is openness. It may not be true that the average citizen has nothing to hide, but the average corrupt official or surveilling blackmailer has (I hope!) much more to hide than you or I. So let us make it known: if the powers that be are determined to do this thing, then we, all of us, need the power to watch the watchers. If there is an inevitable end to privacy, then we must definitively end secrecy as well. And that is actually a bargain I would be willing to make.
I'm sure you were thinking about programs like Echelon but the truth is we know Echelon exists and it's not a small program. You can't hide something that big. It's not because we haven't heard of a Chinese equivalent that they already have one. Don't you think that such a big program would be easily discovered after a short while by their citizens or other governments spying on China? You might say that you didn't want to imply that but it sure did sound like it.
One of my friend who lived at the 20th floor of a condo building in a nice neighborhood saw an intruder in the middle of one night while he was sleeping.
I suppose in Shenzhen, everyone sleeps with their eyes open. Or maybe, he saw the intruder in a telepathic dream! With nocturnal vigilance like this, what more security do you need!
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
so he saw an intruder while he was sleeping. and walking. no fear of hight of course.
America Version .999 Beta
Sign of the times I guess.
If it can't be done here, it's gotta start somewhere...[ This post is a Public Service Announcement ]
- - NOTE: Stevie is not representative of homeless people in general. For example, the fastest growing group of homeless people are women and children in dire straits, whose homelessness is caused by such events as seeking refuge from an abusive relative, death of a spouse, job loss, or illness. The comments below are specific to Stevie, not homeless people in general.
Stevie blathered:
Why not do something radical, like get a job? Oh, right ... you said you won't take a job except for one that meets your conditions. It has to be in exactly the field you claim to be so good in (though if you're that good, why don't you have a job?), at the pay you think you're worth, with the working conditions you think you deserve, that its the employers' responsibility to "give you a leg up", and that anything else is "dishonest."
Those are your words.
Take some meds, get a haircut, and start applying for a job more in line with your real qualifications, not your inflated delusion of self-worth.
The job rules are simple:
The other rules are also simple:
You're your own worst enemy. You keep complaining, but you post here under multiple accounts, whine, whine, whine about how unfair employers are and how they owe you a job with specific conditions and pay because that's what you went to school for. Grow up - because with your crap attitude, you're not even qualified for a "do you want fries with that" McJob.
You say you don't want to go into any of the programs available for the homeless because you "don't want to be stereotyped with the alcoholics and the druggies". How is anyone who thinks they're "too good" any better? You're actually worse - they at least admit they have a problem, and aren't too full of false self-pride to take advantage of an opportunity for some help.
A lot of people end up homeless due to misfortune, divorce, job loss, medical bills, addictions, bad decisions, whatever. This doesn't make them "bad people" - but your claim that you don't want to be "stereotyped" as "one of them" shows how you think yourself so much better.
Stop thinking you're better than people who had the guts to take jobs that you would consider "beneath you." You're not. You can't even troll properly, FFS.
And stop complaining about anyone stalking you; remember how you pulled this BS a couple of weeks ago ... if anyone was stalking, it was you, and this isn't the first time you've pulled this crap on someone. You're a hypocritical dickhead.
[ This has been a public service announcement. Thank you for your patience ]
American company help oppressive regime. Nothing new.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
whether to be in awe or fear of this move. The reasons why one should be wary or afraid of these type of situations are obvious and have probably been stated plenty. But has anyone thought about what kind of feat this really is assuming it actually succeeds? To track *that* many people efficiently enough that its useful for something (good or evil). It is quite an undertaking. I still think they should limit it though. Or maybe give those with good track records an option to opt out for a certain amount of time from tracking or something. Or possibly be allowed to turn it off for small amounts of time a month or something. Privacy is still important and should be protected.
People who always say: 'I have nothing to hide' haven't thought that out very carefully.
Of course, should their government become arbitrarily oppressive, they might have a great deal to hide. But it'll be too late.
At a lesser extreme, should their 'innocent' but insecured information fall into the wrong hands -- identity theft is but one example -- or be manipulated by malicious people (e.g. 'your mama is now an escaped convict') -- they might find their lives severely damaged.
"You must try to forget all you have learned. You must begin to dream." -- Sherwood Anderson
Seeing how you have no privacy left, you might as well let them look up your most personal of orifices.
Ahhh, isn't cold metallic technology wonderful? Especially in the hands of those who want to know everything you might be up to....
Still, this will clearly raise the fear of human rights abuses.
Silly. If this were happenning in the US or Britain, yeah, there should be fear of human rights abuses.
In China, though, you ain't got no rights. What we call "abuses" they consider business as usual.
The Transparent Society.
In a few years people are going to be taking advantage of Google's storage to upload everything pretty close to 24/7 from their phonecam to broadcast on Google's video servers, and you'll be be able to mashup this with Google maps street level and redirect it to your VR-of-choice and it'll be just like being there (if you look past the lag and compression artifacts), except with a rewind button.
I can think of worse guardians of the transparent society.
Why would anyone want to track the world's largest people? Oh, wait... maybe if we place a hyphen in there, it would make sense. Here is goes: "China to Deploy World's Largest People-Tracking Network".
... why this is tagged as censorship? I always thought censorship required some avenue of expression to be limited.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
Facebook or myspace!
"Though the preceding and succeeding stand-alone Exterminator stories from DuBay, featuring "Exterminator 212," "Exterminator 155," and Corben Steele respectively, are hardly fondly remembered or sought after by Warrenphiles today, the three Exterminator One stories featuring the highly tragic character of Peter Orwell, forced by the oppressive dictates of an early 21st century United States government to undergo a bio-technological transformation not unlike that suffered by law enforcement Officer Murphy in the Robocop film trilogy and various comic book follow-ups, Orwell was even more tragic on many levels because he wasn't forced to become a cybernetic, semi-autonomous police officer, but an assassin. Moreover, the criminals he was forced to kill, and helpless to resist carrying out due to his human brain and robotic body being linked to a powerful A.I. computer that he mockingly referred to as "George" (do you get it yet?), weren't killers, armed robbers, rapists, etc. Rather, they were mostly all innocent people who simply had the "wrong" type of genetic code, which made them, in the eyes of the government, "impure" rather than predisposed to committing any type of dangerous act save for perhaps conceiving more genetically "impure" people (see the entries below for further speculations on this)...or, they were simply considered a drain on the system's fiscal resources, such as disabled war veterans collecting government social services (though some of Orwell's targets were indeed unsympathetic conventional criminals). The first victim Orwell was forced to take in his new role as a mechanized government hit man was highly shocking to the reader and absolutely horrifying to Orwell himself, and it immediately set up an incredible pathos to the character and the series itself that drew readers right in, despite the often less than stellar job DuBay did with the scripts and the story direction (with the exception of the second story, which was quite well scripted, I must say). The author clearly put much thought into the plots, but then skimped quite a bit on the script and the pace of the tale (at least in the first and third entries in the sad Peter Orwell saga). Despite these imperfections, however, this series was a hit in the eyes of several readers, and it deserved to be."
-from http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/warrenverse/extermi nator_one.html
Spoiler- The first hit is his daughter
I think the SF author who said the future is mankind with a boot on the back of it's neck forever predicted it best.
The only thing that will stop it is massive chaos and breakdown brought on by a large war.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Not really a privacy issue because don't all Chinese people look the same anyway, and don't they all have the same names or combinations thereof. It must be hell to find the culprit even in broad daylight.
Which city in the USA to implement this system?
I recommend Washington, D.C. to be the first proposed and watch the fur fly!
I feel the best use of it would be the surveillance of our protectors and elected officials while on duty. It will never happen of course, but it should. Fuck, our vice president seems to think that the number of state secrets he is keeping is a state secret. Top level government officials should not have any form of privacy that cannot be audited. It's not that we don't believe that they're honest folks. "trust, but verify", that's one of many conservative parenting ethos, is it not?
It's being supported by VC's because that's what's planned for you here. Get in early!
Big Brother is watching you. . .
Why the hell is that startling ? There's an enormous amount of profit to be had providing the infrastructure to do this on the scale of China, and the Chinese government certainly has no ethical problem with it.
Ergo, some place had to be first. Shenzhen is it, but to do it right the Chinese government should be outsourcing the infrastructure costs. How "startling" is it that some American VC funding interest would get in on the action ?
I don't think it's even close to as improbable as it might seem.
Anyone know if 1984 is censored in China? Surely there must be people making the connection.
I wonder though... No oppressive one-party-state (outside the USSR) comes to mind that has ever had such trade benefits and developmental progress as China. I wonder if the state's firm grip on the country will be a good or a bad thing in the long run. If it turns out good, maybe the virtues of democracy will be harder to convince people about (especially given the aggressive behavior of some democracies).
Just post your name, address, work history, educational background, religion, ethnicity, police record, medical insurance status, landlord's phone number and personal reproductive history here for all to see.
Er, ok:
Name: Anonymous Coward
Address: 127.0.0.1
Work History: I sweep out Mom's basement all the time
Educational background: 133tek, ZOMG, HAHAHAHA, i SOOO pr0n UR a555
Religion: Flying Spaghetti Monsterism
Ethnicity: NERD, YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD !
Police record: Ghosts in the Machine
Medical insurance status: ClamAV
Landlord's phone number: (covers mike, calls upstairs: Mo-o-o-o-o-om?)
Personal reproductive history: Oh, shit, I should have seen before hand, that YOU MUST BE NEW HERE !
China already maintains a dossier on every Chinese citizen. This dossier is established when you become 18, and is then compiled based on interviews with everyone the person has been in contact with during growing up. Teachers, classmates etc. Now they are just going digital. What is interesting is that the US went digital right away, and tries to do the same thing on everyone outside their country as well.
The only flaw in that plan is that too many people are tribalistic, vindictive assholes who
will fuck over anybody who they don't like. Remember, the computers are just a tool, it's
what the *PEOPLE* do with them that is the problem. Also, this too is a good reason why
compiling extensive databases like this should be outlawed because PEOPLE have demonstrated over and over again just how far they will go with abuse of power.
They should get in a camera system that recognises number plates, get people to subscribe to store cards and ATM cards, give all government agencies access to your e-mail and browsing habits, that way they could track the people and still pretend they live in a democracy ..
davecb5620@gmail.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Fei
If you delay pleasure infinitely, the pleasure will be infinite. (YM)
The largest people will always be found at, or near, a McDonalds or a buffet. Or you could just use a seismograph to track them.
The difference between "Computer, where's Doctor McCoy" and "Computer, where's Weng Chiang" is that the Enterprise computer happily tells *anyone* where the doctor is. I doubt the PROC computers will be so generous.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/hors292.pd f
> All systems aimed to reduce crime, yet this study suggests that CCTV has generally failed to
> achieve this. Although police-recorded crime has decreased in six out of the 13 systems for
> which data were available, in only three cases might this decrease be attributable to CCTV,
> and in only two areas was there a significant decrease compared with the control.
and somewhat bizarrely
> Moreover, in some cases (although not many) an increase in crime was an indicator of success
(on the basis that CCTV led to the detection of crime that had previously been unreported)
more importantly in the context of continuing the expansion of our surveillance society, the Home Office conclude
> there was a lack of realism about what could be expected from CCTV. In short, it
> was oversold - by successive governments - as the answer (indeed the 'magic bullet', Ditton
> and Short, 1999) to crime problems. Few seeking a share of the available funding saw it as
> necessary to demonstrate CCTV's effectiveness. After all, why would the government be
> giving out money for this and not other measures if it did not work? Yet it was rarely obvious
> why CCTV was the best response to crime in particular circumstances.
So they're finally allowed to have a "people tracking network" in China. About time, is what I say.
Before technology enables totalitarianism to become universal, please help the project that uses technology to destroy all forms of governmental oppression:
http://www.metagovernment.org/
"It will never happen here..." he said. "If someone ever did begin to develop it, the cry of 'MARK OF THE BEAST' from the Christian Right (US and abroad) would be so stigmatizing* that this whole '666' thing would become a self UN-filfilling prophecy." Ok, so where is it? If this is not precisely what all the wacko Christian right idiots (like me) have been saying all along... chips in the hand (The card is a courtesy), tracking, surveillance... If this is not it, what is? And if so, where is the hew and cry from the Christians. Or are they (ok, ok... we) just sitting back, shaking our heads saying... "We told you so..."
And what if this works? What if no "Beast" arises from the sea? What if this is really a good idea and they benefit and no evil Neo-Mao rises to enslave them? THEN what is to stop it from happening here? Anybody??? If "U.S. companies like IBM, Cisco, H.P., Dell**" are in on this, what is to stop it from happening "here"?
*He didn't realize the pun he unleashed here
**Say, we're missing a OS company in this list. Any volunteers?
But the form of government is still vital. Google can be the steward, but the *guardian* is the Metagovernment:
http://www.metagovernment.org/
That is to say... you.
Indeed. Google can host the content, but if the government monitors and/or controls every bit, then the *perception* of transparency really just helps the government tighten its grip even further.
Also, Google is a corporation. There is no reason to expect that they are always going to act with your best interests in mind. Their first responsibility is to make their shareholders rich. Period.
This won't work. It will loop between step 1 and 4.
Take that you non-mindcontrolling Chinese dictators.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." -George Orwell
That's probably what you are referring to.
You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
I should probably not have written "guardian".
Perhaps a better term would be "midwife".
Google is simply the first institution that's got the resources and inclination to be the Transparent Society's archive.
There's no reason that one has to send ones Fair Witness video stream to just one place, after all.
Useless information that will one day be used to incrimiate ppl..China is communist like my former native land...ppl were taken by force off the streets and placed in jail for years and family members didn't know if they were alive or dead. Ppl in the community betraying others to avoid arrest and this was still happening until the 1980s. It's an American company funding this project. This was alarming! Making the world safe for democracy, I mean for Bush and his rich buddies.
I'm sick and tired of coming to this web board every day and reading trolls chase down a legitimate user who has a decent grip on reality.
"That's what they want you to believe ..."
You just said that, and you were totally serious. Holy crap.
You know how you feel when some freak goes on about how aliens anal probed him, well, that's the same feeling you just gave us.
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
You pathetic sack.
He's a freak and should be told about it.
If you disagree, be a fucking man and say why, save that modding me down because I'm right shit, thanks.
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
Eat it bitch.
You tried, but failed.
Summary of your life really.
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
Mod this +5 funny!
...quite possibly the most interesting part of the story:
"...One of my friend(s) who lived at the 20th floor of a condo building in a nice neighborhood saw an intruder in the middle of one night while he was sleeping..."
i'm not going to pretend i pay any attention to China and know what it's like in China fighting for civil liberties.
but from what i see in the U.S., people who attempt to fight for civil liberties and prevention of those kind of policies are perceived as nutjobs. it's about security. everyone and everything has to be protected. freedom has risk. that's part and parcel of the deal. but because security is so important and so many people can't be without, those who oppose civil libertarians want to think that stopping actions like the one in China are going to prevent protection for themselves.
"To stop the terrorists."
The USA also bankrolled the Bolshevik Revolution which created Communism in the first place.
[research Jacob Schiff of Kuhn Loeb Bank, gold shipment intercepted in Canada, President Wilson intervened permitting the shipment of Gold through traveling through Germany via train, into Russia to kick off the Bolshevik Revolution. ]
Armand Hammer was the American money man who funneled cash into Stalin, and was the mentor of the Gore political Family.
Communism was an American Social Experiment. Russia, and China were the guinea pigs.
Here is the alternative, i.e. ROBOTISM !
ROBOTISM© Will Succeed for PRECISELY the Reasons Communism Failed... ...People Intelligently CHOSE to NOT Work as Robots, real ROBOTS will have no such choice.
http://TeamInfinity.com/ROBOTISM_cpt
The Future is already here, just unevenly distributed... THE ROBOTIC WAGELESS ECONOMY NOW! http://RoboEco.com/slash
I LOVE IT!
Being a candy-ass poofter with a personal vendetta suits you fine, eh? Too bad we can't have you hung by your balls from the highest roof on campus.
That's right! All those corporate shills replacing good American workers with H1-Bs.
Our forefathers worked hard so we wouldn't have to, not to give jobs to people who weren't even born here. Instead, we have conspiracies to keep us down and out on the streets while they eat the bread that was destined for our mouths!
Let's try Pfizer which has a huge complex here in La Jolla. Oh look! It's Hudson's Exchange. While the pic (included on the title bar) isn't large enough to say for certain I find it to be a remarkable likeness of the fellow at McGill. It's probably just conspiracy theory to think that firstbusinessx.com, with a WHOIS listing in Chicago, IL, has any social connection with Abbott Laboratories (the name 'Patel' is common enough).
Oh look! Tom Hudson, President & Scientific Director, Ontario Institute for Cancer Research. I suppose it's just conspiracy theory to think that has any connection with the work I did in R4CP at Abbott Laboratories--three different cancer projects: BcL-xL, AKT, and KDR. There must be something special about those projects for Hudson to set up such an elaborate alter ego on slashdot, posting for years before trying to spring his trap - and now its blown up in his face!
Can you say multinational spoon fed priveleged candy-ass who has a personal vendetta for one of the associates that people of his ilk have screwed over and left for dead?
Meetings like this probably gave Mr. Hudson more than enough room to negotiate social connections with people in the same industry in which I've worked.
Between Tom Hudson, MH42 (running his own ISP), RailGunner (whoever the heck he is), Red Foreman (supposedly living in upscale Lake Mendota by UW-Madison, a premier chemistry and chemical engineering research center), and several of the people from IRC (Chris Bellers/TenBaseT, docfu, D-side, Certified, reality, and several others) and the managers in the industry who've worked so hard to bring me down by constantly giving me grief just so they could arraign me in front of HR when I gave it back to them...
All we need is a confession and I'd be the first person to expose the most ridiculous show of vindictive classism covering both meatspace and the internet on record yet today! For all you doubters, laugh all you want, but now its plain for everyone to see that those voices in my head were telling the truth!
Stevie, log in. It's more humorous that way.
Hey stupid - RailGunner bailed on slashdot. He doesn't even post here anymore. He deleted all of his journal entries, and hasn't posted anything in over a week.
/Friend of his
Far be it from me to puncture Stevie's dreams ... he enjoys conspiracy theories, so hopefuly this will help.
Kevin Smith on Prince
"OK, so you believe that by posting as anonymous, that there is no way it could be tracked back to me?"
Yup. Prove otherwise or shut the fuck up.
"Dude, spend less time jerking off, your brain needs more exercise. "\
Dude, spend less time in your hole making up stupid excuses, they're obviously retarded and easily torn apart, which is why you attack, you know I'm right.
Save your made up rants, loser, you're full of shit and will use any excuse to avoid admitting it.
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
1990 called. They want their website design back.
How inappropriate to call this planet Earth, when clearly it is Ocean.
Well it IS bad, but could be much worse! There's other software out there by bigbrother that will make your skin crawl. This one alone creeps me out: http://www.brslabs.com/ Can you imagine what would happen if China used their software??? People picking their noses would set off alarms. Not that I'd be one of them. ^_^
I confess that I haven't messed with you in MONTHS! Ah, but too bad, I run my own ISP (sort of, if you consider a mailserver and a web server for friends and family to be an ISP).
Oh, and BTW, just to mess with your mind: The reason the rich in La Jolla aren't selling you marijuana isn't a conspiracy against you. They don't raise it themselves because unlike you, they aren't addicts.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
know what you mean about the retro look actually it is late 80s, BBS style, what did you think of the content, the message though ?
http://teaminfinity.com/Walmart_Robotic_Convergenc e_slash
and did you read the FAQ too ?
http://teaminfinity.com/writings/MagnaCartaFAQ.sht ml
The Future is already here, just unevenly distributed... THE ROBOTIC WAGELESS ECONOMY NOW! http://RoboEco.com/slash
I had a similar giggle lunch topic discussion once. That the communist concept is perhaps the GREATEST conspiracy ever. That russia and china are really the receiving end of a US experiment/injection.
indeed, social engineering on a sick scale with huge body counts. email me.
The Future is already here, just unevenly distributed... THE ROBOTIC WAGELESS ECONOMY NOW! http://RoboEco.com/slash