Sorry, don't mean to sound a fool, but what is the "funny" part here (I don't doubt there is one, I'm just too numb to see it, I'm sure)? Is this something to do with programming that I haven't experienced? Or something else? I HATE BEING STUPID! HELP ME!!!!:)
I fully agree. Freenet and NearlyFreeSpeech are both great things. Different uses, but both great none the less. The blog in my sig is hosted at NFS. GREAT people to work with.
I am NOT a grammer Nazi, but I would simply point out that the only 'consistent' languages I'm aware of (as far as ever were or are commonly spoken by humans) are dead ones (such as Latin). English is ever evolving (ever read any of ye olde english?).
Portal: Portal was not in any sense of the word a Mod. The authors of an independant (closed-source) game called Narbicular Drop were hired by Valve, and wrote Portal while employed. Aside from the gameplay development, it was written and voice acted by professionals[1], and was sold at retail.
Oh, please, don't mistake me. I'm not at all saying that Portal was just a one off knock off, or anything of the sort. It's a high quality game, sold for a reasonable price (esp if you're a fan of the Orange Box). But it was my understanding that it was done as a mod of the source engion. Is that not correct? Or was it made from the ground up? 'Cuz last I knew Half Life levels were near binary compatible with Portal... which indicates to me that Portal was based directly on Half Life.
Either way, I agree with you. Great game, excellently made, and worth every penny I spent on it (at least on my 360. I assume it'd be even better if my Laptop would run it happily).
Plane 9 was not open source originally. It is open source NOW...
If Plan 9 was so successful as a closed source project, what was their incentive to open it up (again, honest question, no sarcasm intended)?
Many pointed out Apache as an example. Well its an excellent example of nuts and bolts, not completed systems. Yes Apache can be assembled into a complete system, but it is not from the start a complete system.
What's wrong with Apache? Want a complete system? LAMP works just fine for a CRAPLOAD of folks out there. Or is that not a complete enough system to meet your requirements?
To illustrate the failings look at OSX. Apple and Linux both were underdogs and both use UNIX as its base system. Now look where OSX is and Linux is? OSX is eating Linux's lunch. People actually treat OSX as a easy to use operating system. Yet OSX is NOT FREE, and the hardware is more EXPENSIVE.
OSX and Linux are NOT both based off UNIX. OSX is (to the best of my knowledge) based off of BSD, while Linux is it's own thing entirely. Or are you just saying they're both UNIX like? Regardless, yes, OSX is still beating Linux on the Desktop (I wouldn't say there's any lunch eating going on - Linux is still doubling every year last I heard), but if you include more the JUST DESKTOP setups, I think you'll see things differently. How many servers do you know of running OSX? How many industrial embeded platforms? Moble phones (I can count 1 here)? PDAs (I'll let you count the iPod Touch, if you want)? I rest my case on that matter (and please, don't try to bring Windows into the equation, we're discussing Linux and OSX). Also, I think if you compare apples to apples as far as hardware configurations, you'll find that Apple hardware doesn't carry NEARLY the premium that it once did, just for the record, which is nice, because I hear it runs Linux very well.:D
Thus this should tell you that at the end of the day people don't care about free, but care about getting their work done.
The one sentence that we can both agree on. However, people also tend to care more about who's getting voted off the island then what's going on in the news (unless you count The Colbert Report). People, en mass, are NOT to be used to base anything but marketing decisions on. The people who make decisions at companies, however, SHOULD care about free (and many, not enough, but many do). In this case, I'm referring the Open type of free, not the beer type. The beer type is good too, but open is the larger issue.
Anyway, thanks for your clear, friendly, concise reply. So rare on/. these days...:)
Plan 9 from Bell Labs. The iPhone's multi-touch interface. Bluetooth. The Nintendo and Sega games that actually make good use of the Wiimote. VMWare Fusion and Parallels. Portal.
OK, I'm not going to insult you, call you a fanboy, or any of that. But I'd just like to point a few things out.
Plan 9: Read the Wikipedia Article on it. It *IS* Open Source. Or was that not your point (honest question, I'm not a sarcastic person generally)?
iPhone's Multi-Touch interface: As another posted mentioned, the iPhone doing it isn't innovation, apparently it's been around for a while. Not a one-up for OSS, but not a one-up for the iPhone, either. I donno who thought it up first, so I can't award a point.
Bluetooth: You got me there. It was put fourth by a trade group. However, over half of the founding members are fairly OSS friendly, as far as I understand it. I may be wrong, though (IBM I think is friendly, I'm pretty sure Intel is (what with their opening up their hardware more then many), and doesn't Nokia make those nSeries tablets (that run Linux) that are all the rage?)
Nintendo & Sega: You win. Go consoles. Seriously. I got nothing here.
VMWare Fusion and Parallels: Just one thing to add: Doesn't Parallels use parts of Wine to manage it's fancy-shmancy 3D stuff?
Portal: An EXCELLENT Mod. BUT... it was made using an open modding API (I don't know what the correct term is, but I think you understand what I mean). Valve put the means to mod Half Life out there for all the world to see, nice and open (not the source, mind you, just the parts needed for modding). And a small group of college kids came up with Portal. I say no point here, either, 'cuz it's an open mod of a closed game, but that's just my take.
Well, forgive me my rant, I just wanted to clarify a couple of things.
There is always stupid people I find this a funny subject title considering (I presume) you're claiming to not be stupid. I'm not normally a grammatical nit-picker, but, well you know what they say about stones & glass dwellings...
That has to be reported. Period the end. It is the law in most if not all states. So... you'd report them because it's the law? This, from a self admitted stoner? Now, I'm not trying to suggest that smoking a bit of pot now and again is anywhere NEAR as reprehensible as child porn, however, taken strictly by your given logic, you should have turned yourself in too. After all, it IS the law...
Or, perhaps, it's not the law we're discussing? Maybe we're discussing a moral standpoint? If so, that's fine, I quite agree with your morals in this case (pot not so bad, child porn very bad), but lets call it like it is, and not bring the law into what I suspect was ultimately a moral decision.
I'm SO sorry that I've already posted in this thread. *sigh*. Well, here's an unofficial +1 insightful.
However, if I may speak further, it strikes me that it was NOT AT ALL NEEDED to find files to test with. What decent tech store doesn't have USB drives? Take the damn test files from THAT. Fully formed, decent burning test files.
The techs have NO RIGHT to rifle through my files just to install a damn DVD drive. I shouldn't have to hide my private movies of my girl friend and myself on my OWN DAMN COMPUTER. Well, not that it's an issue for me. I've never sent my box to a tech (I like to do my repairs myself), but if I ever do, I shouldn't have to yank the damn HDD (likely will, just 'cuz you CAN'T trust companies to mind their own damn business).
So, uh, yeah. Sorry about the rant. +1 insightful.:)
Were I a betting man, I'd wager that the GP, like myself, is a dabbler. Not to say that he/she is not a "true" Linux user, quite the contrary. A dabbler, in my context, is rather one who has a great interest in Linux (and perhaps other *nix's as well), and as such, likes to try out all the "little guys" who come out month-to-month. The KDE4 previews, the ELive's, or even the Symphony OS's. None of them anything I'd confuse for "mainstream", yet all of them interesting in their own way, for the right people. I have QUITE a number of partitions on my hard drive, most filled with this or that distro (I virtualize sometimes, but I like the "Organic" feel of having a "real" install)
Of course, this is all my own opinion on the matter, certainly not trying to put words into the GP's mouth. IANAWebmaster404.;D
the XBox being far outsold by Nintendo
I love the Wii as much as anyone, but the 360 is still holding up ok, near as I can tell. Not winning, but a steady #2, far outstripping the PS3, which hasn't even cought the up to the 360 from last year.
Personally I'm of the mindset that many of the "stuff" that I get as a gift is just that: stuff. I appreciate the thought, but in reality unless the person (or my sig-other) is me the item I receive is likely different from that which I will buy myself. I'm not someone who wants for much and doesn't need anything (and am thankful for that). So I ask that my friends/family spend time with me rather than scouring a mall. I am getting a lot of sighs-of-relief from others in my circle who agree with me.
Smart gifts for the kids, a visit/drink with the adults. I know it comes off sounding like Scrooge, but I honestly believe it is the Right Thing To Do.
No, I think that's quite the valid point. I've felt that way since a year or two after high school, and I'm not that old (24 isn't old yet, is it? Maybe not young, but not old, right?:D). Spending time (like, real time, or F2F if you must, not IMing, or hooking up on the cell on the drive home from work) with friends and loved ones (not always one and the same;D) is something I really value. I'm far from rich (too many bills from a long but ultimately failed engagement), but my needs are met. It's truly a shame that our holidays have become something so much about gifts and "things" and so little about the people giving them. Thanks for putting into words something I've been thinking a long time.
Slashdot Mirror
Sorry, don't mean to sound a fool, but what is the "funny" part here (I don't doubt there is one, I'm just too numb to see it, I'm sure)? Is this something to do with programming that I haven't experienced? Or something else? I HATE BEING STUPID! HELP ME!!!! :)
I fully agree. Freenet and NearlyFreeSpeech are both great things. Different uses, but both great none the less. The blog in my sig is hosted at NFS. GREAT people to work with.
Lab Rats are simply less litigious.
I am NOT a grammer Nazi, but I would simply point out that the only 'consistent' languages I'm aware of (as far as ever were or are commonly spoken by humans) are dead ones (such as Latin). English is ever evolving (ever read any of ye olde english?).
Oh, please, don't mistake me. I'm not at all saying that Portal was just a one off knock off, or anything of the sort. It's a high quality game, sold for a reasonable price (esp if you're a fan of the Orange Box). But it was my understanding that it was done as a mod of the source engion. Is that not correct? Or was it made from the ground up? 'Cuz last I knew Half Life levels were near binary compatible with Portal... which indicates to me that Portal was based directly on Half Life.
Either way, I agree with you. Great game, excellently made, and worth every penny I spent on it (at least on my 360. I assume it'd be even better if my Laptop would run it happily).
If Plan 9 was so successful as a closed source project, what was their incentive to open it up (again, honest question, no sarcasm intended)?
Many pointed out Apache as an example. Well its an excellent example of nuts and bolts, not completed systems. Yes Apache can be assembled into a complete system, but it is not from the start a complete system.
What's wrong with Apache? Want a complete system? LAMP works just fine for a CRAPLOAD of folks out there. Or is that not a complete enough system to meet your requirements?
To illustrate the failings look at OSX. Apple and Linux both were underdogs and both use UNIX as its base system. Now look where OSX is and Linux is? OSX is eating Linux's lunch. People actually treat OSX as a easy to use operating system. Yet OSX is NOT FREE, and the hardware is more EXPENSIVE.
OSX and Linux are NOT both based off UNIX. OSX is (to the best of my knowledge) based off of BSD, while Linux is it's own thing entirely. Or are you just saying they're both UNIX like? Regardless, yes, OSX is still beating Linux on the Desktop (I wouldn't say there's any lunch eating going on - Linux is still doubling every year last I heard), but if you include more the JUST DESKTOP setups, I think you'll see things differently. How many servers do you know of running OSX? How many industrial embeded platforms? Moble phones (I can count 1 here)? PDAs (I'll let you count the iPod Touch, if you want)? I rest my case on that matter (and please, don't try to bring Windows into the equation, we're discussing Linux and OSX). Also, I think if you compare apples to apples as far as hardware configurations, you'll find that Apple hardware doesn't carry NEARLY the premium that it once did, just for the record, which is nice, because I hear it runs Linux very well.
Thus this should tell you that at the end of the day people don't care about free, but care about getting their work done.
The one sentence that we can both agree on. However, people also tend to care more about who's getting voted off the island then what's going on in the news (unless you count The Colbert Report). People, en mass, are NOT to be used to base anything but marketing decisions on. The people who make decisions at companies, however, SHOULD care about free (and many, not enough, but many do). In this case, I'm referring the Open type of free, not the beer type. The beer type is good too, but open is the larger issue.
Anyway, thanks for your clear, friendly, concise reply. So rare on
OK, I'm not going to insult you, call you a fanboy, or any of that. But I'd just like to point a few things out.
Plan 9: Read the Wikipedia Article on it. It *IS* Open Source. Or was that not your point (honest question, I'm not a sarcastic person generally)?
iPhone's Multi-Touch interface: As another posted mentioned, the iPhone doing it isn't innovation, apparently it's been around for a while. Not a one-up for OSS, but not a one-up for the iPhone, either. I donno who thought it up first, so I can't award a point.
Bluetooth: You got me there. It was put fourth by a trade group. However, over half of the founding members are fairly OSS friendly, as far as I understand it. I may be wrong, though (IBM I think is friendly, I'm pretty sure Intel is (what with their opening up their hardware more then many), and doesn't Nokia make those nSeries tablets (that run Linux) that are all the rage?)
Nintendo & Sega: You win. Go consoles. Seriously. I got nothing here.
VMWare Fusion and Parallels: Just one thing to add: Doesn't Parallels use parts of Wine to manage it's fancy-shmancy 3D stuff?
Portal: An EXCELLENT Mod. BUT... it was made using an open modding API (I don't know what the correct term is, but I think you understand what I mean). Valve put the means to mod Half Life out there for all the world to see, nice and open (not the source, mind you, just the parts needed for modding). And a small group of college kids came up with Portal. I say no point here, either, 'cuz it's an open mod of a closed game, but that's just my take.
Well, forgive me my rant, I just wanted to clarify a couple of things.
You hurt my brain..... but I approve.
Failing upwards is easy. Just throw yourself at the ground floor and miss.
Now, to figure out the question...
I find this a funny subject title considering (I presume) you're claiming to not be stupid. I'm not normally a grammatical nit-picker, but, well you know what they say about stones & glass dwellings...
Well, not that my opinion matters much in this case, but I think that's what SHOULD happen, yeah. Both parties should be charged.
Or, perhaps, it's not the law we're discussing? Maybe we're discussing a moral standpoint? If so, that's fine, I quite agree with your morals in this case (pot not so bad, child porn very bad), but lets call it like it is, and not bring the law into what I suspect was ultimately a moral decision.
Damn it. I should have never commented in this thread. This is the SECOND time I've seen something that needs an insightful mod... badly.
I'm SO sorry that I've already posted in this thread. *sigh*. Well, here's an unofficial +1 insightful.
:)
However, if I may speak further, it strikes me that it was NOT AT ALL NEEDED to find files to test with. What decent tech store doesn't have USB drives? Take the damn test files from THAT. Fully formed, decent burning test files.
The techs have NO RIGHT to rifle through my files just to install a damn DVD drive. I shouldn't have to hide my private movies of my girl friend and myself on my OWN DAMN COMPUTER. Well, not that it's an issue for me. I've never sent my box to a tech (I like to do my repairs myself), but if I ever do, I shouldn't have to yank the damn HDD (likely will, just 'cuz you CAN'T trust companies to mind their own damn business).
So, uh, yeah. Sorry about the rant. +1 insightful.
Naw, he just had the Pedo Smile. ;)
Ah, indeed a possibility. God knows the Ubuntu's have been getting better and better every rev.
Whadayamean? Greed makes a LOT of cents... ;)
Were I a betting man, I'd wager that the GP, like myself, is a dabbler. Not to say that he/she is not a "true" Linux user, quite the contrary. A dabbler, in my context, is rather one who has a great interest in Linux (and perhaps other *nix's as well), and as such, likes to try out all the "little guys" who come out month-to-month. The KDE4 previews, the ELive's, or even the Symphony OS's. None of them anything I'd confuse for "mainstream", yet all of them interesting in their own way, for the right people. I have QUITE a number of partitions on my hard drive, most filled with this or that distro (I virtualize sometimes, but I like the "Organic" feel of having a "real" install)
;D
Of course, this is all my own opinion on the matter, certainly not trying to put words into the GP's mouth. IANAWebmaster404.
Dear god, where the HELL are my mod points? Stupid bad timing. +1 Bawls-Out-Nose.
I love the Wii as much as anyone, but the 360 is still holding up ok, near as I can tell. Not winning, but a steady #2, far outstripping the PS3, which hasn't even cought the up to the 360 from last year.
Beyond that, I pretty much agree with ya.
Smart gifts for the kids, a visit/drink with the adults. I know it comes off sounding like Scrooge, but I honestly believe it is the Right Thing To Do.
No, I think that's quite the valid point. I've felt that way since a year or two after high school, and I'm not that old (24 isn't old yet, is it? Maybe not young, but not old, right?
Damn it! Stop posting my data to the intertubes!!!
;D
Maybe they don't, but they do require you to have windows to get your broadband set up (or else jump through hoops :D).
Hmmm... somehow I borked my own link. Well, anyway: FREENET!!!!