You talk as if this is Israel vs. Palestinians. I would venture to say that most Palestinians do not publically agree with Hamas. Mostly, I presume, because of the completely anti-peace charter and goals that Hamas has.
But I guess we should just take everyone's word for it, and not look at what they have already vowed to do...
I'd like to also comment that I know not all Islamic peoples agree with Hamas (and many don't), and that many are peaceful people. All the more reason to distinguish Hamas from "Muslims" or "Islamic people." I'm anti-terrorism, I didn't say I'm anti-Hamas or anti-Islam, etc. If I meant that, I would have said anti-Hamas...
I was not attempting to say that violence, as long as it is well planned out, was ok. I meant to simply point out an apparent difference in organization. Israel seems to always have been well organized in this area.
I don't think Hamas is necessarily making their own rockets. Sure, Israel isn't either, but I don't think we should paint Hamas as these poor, innocent folks that barely scrape up enough metal to make a homemade rocket and it's not their fault if it misses, either. I'm not supporting killing of innocent Palestinians nor innocent Israelites.
However, I think you miss one crucial point in not liking Hamas to be termed a terrorist group: Hamas has absolutely no qualms about their explicit mission statement to kill all the Jews. No, not "release Gaza" or "free Gaza" or "Retake their homeland," it's that they want no Jews on earth. Same thing Hitler wanted to do to the Jews (as well as a bunch of other groupings of people).
Can Israel do wrong? Sure. Their humans, too. But at least Israel IS interested in peace. They've put up with constant terrorist attacks pretty much since 1948, as well as other countries attacking them.
I don't think Hamas commits anything in the name of nationalism... they seem to commit what they do in the name of getting rid of an evil people (the Jews).
IMO, it's interesting to note the difference between the two. Israel seems to always have its military act together, beginning with the war it fought right after it got its land [back].
On one side, we have what was termed "e-vandalism." On the other side, we have a very planned strategy to do something, although I don't know what yet.
Just an interesting look into the different... tactics, if you will.
Disclaimer for contextual reading of this comment: I am pro-Israel, anti-terrorism, and I really do think Israel wants peace and Hamas wants no-live-Jew-on-face-of-earth. This is not an anti-Jew post.
This is an excellent point, and many workplaces (as I understand it) are the same - stuff worked on on company time using company resources is owned by the company. You can do your own thing on your own time with your own equipment, but otherwise you're basically stealing company equipment for personal use. Yeah, school is cool and it has lots of resources you don't have at home, but that doesn't mean you can start a business with your school's equipment, hehe. Hosting a web host on the school's web server probably isn't a good idea. Of course, nobody would think of doing that, but it's the same principle with other university property that people think less of... like an internet connection.
I don't know many people who only make $500 a month that live on their own... You could make twice as much working at McDonalds.
Ironically, that was precisely my point:)
Those for whom $100 is a lot of movie could go to the library, could read books, could take up wood carving, etc. Unfortunately, most of America has apparently turned into a "I'm at home. Where's the remote?" civilization.
They do, I wasn't talking about them though. I was assuming we were talking about those that are working for their money, not the "special cases" for lack of a better term.
For what it's worth, this is what the site reports when you try to sign up.
We have determined that your household is eligible to participate in this program. However, at this time program funding is not currently available to fulfill your request. Your application has been placed on a waiting list. You do not need to apply again. When and if funds become available, coupon requests will be fulfilled on a first-come, first-served basis.
Not to mention that someone living on $500 a month probably doesn't have time to watch TV. And if they do, they probably could be living on more than $500 a month if they didn't watch TV...
I live on more than $500 a month and I don't OWN a TV.
Go whine at them about it. ATI has always sucked. Official Linux support hasn't changed that much.
Except that it worked in SuSE 10.3 and had problems in SuSE 11. Granted, 11 was newer and just came out, etc., so I'm not complaining about it, just saying it has problems, contrary to the popular belief that Windows stinks and everyone is somehow being forced to use it with thumbscrews, otherwise everyone would automatically jump on the Linux bandwagon:)
Vista worse than XP, on the whole I actually agree.
No OS can be expected to "just work"... that's exactly what is expected of Windows I think?
Ah well. Anecdotal evidence goes a long way in one's own mind I guess (mine included, unfortunately).
I had a root canal and I am in my 20s. I have never lost a tooth, and I have only had two small cavities in my life. The reason for my root canal was an abscessed tooth, and the dentist said he has no idea how I got it, since I wasn't in a fist fight, I don't have dental problems, etc. It was a very painful event (the pain became very unbearable by the time I saw the dentist and he released the built up pressure in the tooth), but it had nothing to do with brushing/flossing...
Not to say that no one has problems because of not brushing/flossing, just giving anecdotal evidence of a root canal that was unrelated to dental hygiene:) (only thing we can come up with are frisbee games in which I sometimes ran into something with my face... e.g., someone's arm)
Ready for use means with Ubuntu 99% of the time you add hardware and it just works.
Hmmm. Oddly enough, I've had problems with various Linux distros (Mandrake, SuSE, Ubuntu, RedHat) and various versions (have used SuSE since 10.1, for example) and hardware. I have had very few issues with Windows in that particular department (am NOT saying that Windows is flawless or something stupid like that), especially with the ones you describe, especially with antivirus stuff (aside from Norton doing strange things). So, either I am in the 1% of Linux users and 99% of Windows users, or something else is weird. On Linux, I've even had problems with something as simple as a USB flash drive (I think it had to do with a write cache).
Re:So much for free!
on
Ubuntu Kung Fu
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· Score: 1, Troll
This assumes you are PLANNING on Linux before you buy your computer. Obviously, then, you know enough that you're going to use Linux. You may as well buy a pre-fab desktop with Linux on it, or build it yourself and just get it to work if you're knowledgeable enough. I'm not talking about that class of users:)
How much toxic spent fuel is there? Last I read about it, it didn't take much, and it lasted quite a while. Yes, a little nuclear waist goes along way... but a little nuclear fuel also goes a long way.
Building, maintaining, and demolishing other forms of "green" energy production also consumes power. Solar cells don't grow on trees, nor do wind turbines. I don't have numbers in front of me, but I know it is definitely expensive (as in $30k) to convert a house to solar energy. I doubt that's all cost of labor. In fact, I'm fairly certain that it's not terribly labor intensive to actually stick the things on your roof. And they wear out after a fairly short amount of years and have to be completely replaced, IIRC.
Re:Oblig auto analogy.
on
Ubuntu Kung Fu
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· Score: 0, Troll
Thanks for the auto analogy... hehe.
Yes, it is technically free. The point is that it's hard to sell something as free if they end up needing to pay for training (in some form) to learn how to use it.
This could be fixed with a good, more or less "standard" online Linux help site... not geared towards geeks, but geared towards those that don't know anything about Linux. There are plenty of geek sites that assume you know what you're doing.
Also, I didn't say that it didn't work. My point was that it doesn't "just work." It doesn't work automatically. Some assembly required.
I'll return to a concrete example. When my parents or sister plug in a printer, they expect it - like Windows - to work. Sure, they might have to put the CD in first and click "Next" a few times, and THEN plug it in. But they still expect to be able to plug it in, and have it work.
Linux? No, not really. Plug it in, doesn't get recognized immediately necessarily. The configuration wizard could have been better. There wasn't any help available. It was hard enough to FIND the add-printer wizard.
Luckily. SuSE seems to be a bit easier in this department than some of my experiences with other distros (and interestingly, from what I hear from the Linux crowd, SuSE is criticized for all its fancy-shmancy GUI tools - blah blah blah command line is way better to use blah blah blah GUIs are for fools blah blah:) ).
Does it work? Yes. That particular distro worked pretty well. Yes, this is partly the fault of hardware makers for not having good driver support (although Canon actually is ok with Linux drivers, it seems).
Here's another concrete example - video card. It still doesn't work well on my parents desktop, and it's a Radeon 9800. Hardly a non-standard or "new" card. I had to do a lot of hand-editing of xorg.conf to get it to work well. The mouse was also very jerky and wouldn't revert to a "slow" setting on reboot. That was solved by getting a new mouse. Windows? All this was no problem, the problem on Windows was spyware, adware, and viruses roughly once a year:)
Yeah, it works, and yeah it depends on what you can handle, but man, if we want to try to get more people to use Linux and try t oconvince them partly on the fact that it's free, I don't feel like telling them "Oh, yeah, you can download it for free... you should also buy this book because you're going to have on clue how to use it and its hard to find the equivalent online unless you know what you're doing and talking about." Keep in mind, my parents/sister have NO clue what "Amarok" is, what a "konsole" is, what "KDE" is, what a "window manager" is, what "3D acceleration" is, what "xorg.conf" is, what "vi" is let alone how to use it, etc. So if any of the instructions involve that, they are going into follow-verbatim-command mode. That's the kind of standard documentation I am thinking is needed.:)
I am fairly certain that the actual radioactive materials used in warheads are not the same as those used in nuclear power generation. I could be wrong.
Ok, so let's say you steal two or three of them. Now what? You'd have to have a pretty interesting "house" to be able to take radioactive materials and turn them into a bomb, presuming they're even the correct type of material. I don't think making a nuclear bomb is exactly one of those basement projects... not to mention that most nuclear reactors of any size have a ton of concrete around them. That might be rather interesting to try to move. Or don't you think that someone would notice a huge crane parked next to where they buried a nuclear reactor? hehe.
"Ready for us" (meaning, I suppoce, one to four desktop computers, probably fairly standard bought-from-Dell or something?) does not equal "more ready for the desktop [generic] than XP."
My parents use SuSE 11.0 (will upgrade to 11.1 as soon as I try it out and make sure it works well enough for them), but I usually have to go "fix" things now and then. Something doesn't display, audio isn't playing, the printer didn't work, how do I listen to music (no iTunes), etc.
I don't know exactly what your grandma, mom, and sister use it for, but I know that it doesn't take too many slightly-specialized (i.e., not just "check my e-mail") needs to make it a lot harder to set up for someone.
Um, what? OS X, while I personally rather dislike the "can't install our OS on non-Mac-approved hardware..."... it DOES support that Mac-approved hardware, it seems.
Vista is usable.
XP is quite usable on the desktop, I've used it for quite a few years now.
Ubuntu is usable too, at least by most people with standard hardware. It's when you buy new hardware (like... a printer) that normal users can really run into problems.
Saying Ubuntu is more ready than XP is... um... un-informed, IMO. Of course, we may have different definitions of the word ready.
Except that that is not a self-evident truth, because some people learn Linux and get paid for it (my job includes AIX, HP-UX, Linux, and Solaris, so I technically get "paid" in part to learn those systems). Linux, for me, IS free, but my time is NOT worthless. So, I disagree with your 'axiom' (self-evident truth...)
And for the record, I love using Linux and enjoy my job. I'm also interested in being critical of Linux and going against the Slashdot flow (even if it's considered "trolling" to say anything "against" Linux...)
Slashdot Mirror
I can't you're joking. Whoosh if you are.
If not: TXT: Trusted Execution Technology
You talk as if this is Israel vs. Palestinians. I would venture to say that most Palestinians do not publically agree with Hamas. Mostly, I presume, because of the completely anti-peace charter and goals that Hamas has.
But I guess we should just take everyone's word for it, and not look at what they have already vowed to do...
Shameless reply to own post.
I'd like to also comment that I know not all Islamic peoples agree with Hamas (and many don't), and that many are peaceful people. All the more reason to distinguish Hamas from "Muslims" or "Islamic people." I'm anti-terrorism, I didn't say I'm anti-Hamas or anti-Islam, etc. If I meant that, I would have said anti-Hamas...
I was not attempting to say that violence, as long as it is well planned out, was ok. I meant to simply point out an apparent difference in organization. Israel seems to always have been well organized in this area.
I don't think Hamas is necessarily making their own rockets. Sure, Israel isn't either, but I don't think we should paint Hamas as these poor, innocent folks that barely scrape up enough metal to make a homemade rocket and it's not their fault if it misses, either. I'm not supporting killing of innocent Palestinians nor innocent Israelites.
However, I think you miss one crucial point in not liking Hamas to be termed a terrorist group: Hamas has absolutely no qualms about their explicit mission statement to kill all the Jews. No, not "release Gaza" or "free Gaza" or "Retake their homeland," it's that they want no Jews on earth. Same thing Hitler wanted to do to the Jews (as well as a bunch of other groupings of people).
Can Israel do wrong? Sure. Their humans, too. But at least Israel IS interested in peace. They've put up with constant terrorist attacks pretty much since 1948, as well as other countries attacking them.
I don't think Hamas commits anything in the name of nationalism... they seem to commit what they do in the name of getting rid of an evil people (the Jews).
This doesn't mean the price is now 69 cents. That's the lowest price. Not the highest price..
IMO, it's interesting to note the difference between the two. Israel seems to always have its military act together, beginning with the war it fought right after it got its land [back].
On one side, we have what was termed "e-vandalism." On the other side, we have a very planned strategy to do something, although I don't know what yet.
Just an interesting look into the different ... tactics, if you will.
Disclaimer for contextual reading of this comment: I am pro-Israel, anti-terrorism, and I really do think Israel wants peace and Hamas wants no-live-Jew-on-face-of-earth. This is not an anti-Jew post.
This is an excellent point, and many workplaces (as I understand it) are the same - stuff worked on on company time using company resources is owned by the company. You can do your own thing on your own time with your own equipment, but otherwise you're basically stealing company equipment for personal use. Yeah, school is cool and it has lots of resources you don't have at home, but that doesn't mean you can start a business with your school's equipment, hehe. Hosting a web host on the school's web server probably isn't a good idea. Of course, nobody would think of doing that, but it's the same principle with other university property that people think less of... like an internet connection.
I don't know many people who only make $500 a month that live on their own... You could make twice as much working at McDonalds.
Ironically, that was precisely my point :)
Those for whom $100 is a lot of movie could go to the library, could read books, could take up wood carving, etc. Unfortunately, most of America has apparently turned into a "I'm at home. Where's the remote?" civilization.
They do, I wasn't talking about them though. I was assuming we were talking about those that are working for their money, not the "special cases" for lack of a better term.
For what it's worth, this is what the site reports when you try to sign up.
We have determined that your household is eligible to participate in this program. However, at this time program funding is not currently available to fulfill your request. Your application has been placed on a waiting list. You do not need to apply again. When and if funds become available, coupon requests will be fulfilled on a first-come, first-served basis.
Not to mention that someone living on $500 a month probably doesn't have time to watch TV. And if they do, they probably could be living on more than $500 a month if they didn't watch TV...
I live on more than $500 a month and I don't OWN a TV.
Go whine at them about it. ATI has always sucked. Official Linux support hasn't changed that much.
Except that it worked in SuSE 10.3 and had problems in SuSE 11. Granted, 11 was newer and just came out, etc., so I'm not complaining about it, just saying it has problems, contrary to the popular belief that Windows stinks and everyone is somehow being forced to use it with thumbscrews, otherwise everyone would automatically jump on the Linux bandwagon :)
Vista worse than XP, on the whole I actually agree.
No OS can be expected to "just work" ... that's exactly what is expected of Windows I think?
Ah well. Anecdotal evidence goes a long way in one's own mind I guess (mine included, unfortunately).
I had a root canal and I am in my 20s. I have never lost a tooth, and I have only had two small cavities in my life. The reason for my root canal was an abscessed tooth, and the dentist said he has no idea how I got it, since I wasn't in a fist fight, I don't have dental problems, etc. It was a very painful event (the pain became very unbearable by the time I saw the dentist and he released the built up pressure in the tooth), but it had nothing to do with brushing/flossing...
Not to say that no one has problems because of not brushing/flossing, just giving anecdotal evidence of a root canal that was unrelated to dental hygiene :) (only thing we can come up with are frisbee games in which I sometimes ran into something with my face... e.g., someone's arm)
Ahem... at first brush, it sounds ridiculous.
I think you mean, "you insensitive clouds."
Ready for use means with Ubuntu 99% of the time you add hardware and it just works.
Hmmm. Oddly enough, I've had problems with various Linux distros (Mandrake, SuSE, Ubuntu, RedHat) and various versions (have used SuSE since 10.1, for example) and hardware. I have had very few issues with Windows in that particular department (am NOT saying that Windows is flawless or something stupid like that), especially with the ones you describe, especially with antivirus stuff (aside from Norton doing strange things). So, either I am in the 1% of Linux users and 99% of Windows users, or something else is weird. On Linux, I've even had problems with something as simple as a USB flash drive (I think it had to do with a write cache).
This assumes you are PLANNING on Linux before you buy your computer. Obviously, then, you know enough that you're going to use Linux. You may as well buy a pre-fab desktop with Linux on it, or build it yourself and just get it to work if you're knowledgeable enough. I'm not talking about that class of users :)
How much toxic spent fuel is there? Last I read about it, it didn't take much, and it lasted quite a while. Yes, a little nuclear waist goes along way... but a little nuclear fuel also goes a long way.
Building, maintaining, and demolishing other forms of "green" energy production also consumes power. Solar cells don't grow on trees, nor do wind turbines. I don't have numbers in front of me, but I know it is definitely expensive (as in $30k) to convert a house to solar energy. I doubt that's all cost of labor. In fact, I'm fairly certain that it's not terribly labor intensive to actually stick the things on your roof. And they wear out after a fairly short amount of years and have to be completely replaced, IIRC.
Thanks for the auto analogy... hehe.
Yes, it is technically free. The point is that it's hard to sell something as free if they end up needing to pay for training (in some form) to learn how to use it.
This could be fixed with a good, more or less "standard" online Linux help site... not geared towards geeks, but geared towards those that don't know anything about Linux. There are plenty of geek sites that assume you know what you're doing.
Also, I didn't say that it didn't work. My point was that it doesn't "just work." It doesn't work automatically. Some assembly required.
I'll return to a concrete example. When my parents or sister plug in a printer, they expect it - like Windows - to work. Sure, they might have to put the CD in first and click "Next" a few times, and THEN plug it in. But they still expect to be able to plug it in, and have it work.
Linux? No, not really. Plug it in, doesn't get recognized immediately necessarily. The configuration wizard could have been better. There wasn't any help available. It was hard enough to FIND the add-printer wizard.
Luckily. SuSE seems to be a bit easier in this department than some of my experiences with other distros (and interestingly, from what I hear from the Linux crowd, SuSE is criticized for all its fancy-shmancy GUI tools - blah blah blah command line is way better to use blah blah blah GUIs are for fools blah blah :) ).
Does it work? Yes. That particular distro worked pretty well. Yes, this is partly the fault of hardware makers for not having good driver support (although Canon actually is ok with Linux drivers, it seems).
Here's another concrete example - video card. It still doesn't work well on my parents desktop, and it's a Radeon 9800. Hardly a non-standard or "new" card. I had to do a lot of hand-editing of xorg.conf to get it to work well. The mouse was also very jerky and wouldn't revert to a "slow" setting on reboot. That was solved by getting a new mouse. Windows? All this was no problem, the problem on Windows was spyware, adware, and viruses roughly once a year :)
Yeah, it works, and yeah it depends on what you can handle, but man, if we want to try to get more people to use Linux and try t oconvince them partly on the fact that it's free, I don't feel like telling them "Oh, yeah, you can download it for free... you should also buy this book because you're going to have on clue how to use it and its hard to find the equivalent online unless you know what you're doing and talking about." Keep in mind, my parents/sister have NO clue what "Amarok" is, what a "konsole" is, what "KDE" is, what a "window manager" is, what "3D acceleration" is, what "xorg.conf" is, what "vi" is let alone how to use it, etc. So if any of the instructions involve that, they are going into follow-verbatim-command mode. That's the kind of standard documentation I am thinking is needed. :)
Whoosh to me, then... didn't see the joke. :)
I am fairly certain that the actual radioactive materials used in warheads are not the same as those used in nuclear power generation. I could be wrong.
Ok, so let's say you steal two or three of them. Now what? You'd have to have a pretty interesting "house" to be able to take radioactive materials and turn them into a bomb, presuming they're even the correct type of material. I don't think making a nuclear bomb is exactly one of those basement projects... not to mention that most nuclear reactors of any size have a ton of concrete around them. That might be rather interesting to try to move. Or don't you think that someone would notice a huge crane parked next to where they buried a nuclear reactor? hehe.
Isn't Nuclear energy pretty green? Yes, there's some amount nuclear waste, but there sure isn't much.
Seems like it'd be better to say that there are "other" green options.
"Ready for us" (meaning, I suppoce, one to four desktop computers, probably fairly standard bought-from-Dell or something?) does not equal "more ready for the desktop [generic] than XP."
My parents use SuSE 11.0 (will upgrade to 11.1 as soon as I try it out and make sure it works well enough for them), but I usually have to go "fix" things now and then. Something doesn't display, audio isn't playing, the printer didn't work, how do I listen to music (no iTunes), etc.
I don't know exactly what your grandma, mom, and sister use it for, but I know that it doesn't take too many slightly-specialized (i.e., not just "check my e-mail") needs to make it a lot harder to set up for someone.
Um, what? OS X, while I personally rather dislike the "can't install our OS on non-Mac-approved hardware..." ... it DOES support that Mac-approved hardware, it seems.
Vista is usable.
XP is quite usable on the desktop, I've used it for quite a few years now.
Ubuntu is usable too, at least by most people with standard hardware. It's when you buy new hardware (like... a printer) that normal users can really run into problems.
Saying Ubuntu is more ready than XP is ... um... un-informed, IMO. Of course, we may have different definitions of the word ready.
Except that that is not a self-evident truth, because some people learn Linux and get paid for it (my job includes AIX, HP-UX, Linux, and Solaris, so I technically get "paid" in part to learn those systems). Linux, for me, IS free, but my time is NOT worthless. So, I disagree with your 'axiom' (self-evident truth...)
And for the record, I love using Linux and enjoy my job. I'm also interested in being critical of Linux and going against the Slashdot flow (even if it's considered "trolling" to say anything "against" Linux...)