And with any luck, I'll get out of this support position and into a nice well-paid programming job at the same time.
Good luck with the "well-paid" part. From what I'v seen HR will tell you, "Just two weeks ago you were working in support with a support person's paycheck. Do you really think you can spend two weeks of company time to learn to write a program and get a significant pay raise?"
Remember, HR exists to pay the employee as little as possible and still keep them.
Yea, but 2 refrigerators could cost $300,000 + yearly support fees. A comparable cluster with a SAN would cost maybe $100k max and perform better in every area. A company could afford to hire an additional person with or two that savings. Plus the cluster would be more reliable and far more upgradable.
The issue is with RPG software. Nobody is learning to write RPG anymore.
Talking about the problem in terms of "Mainframe Programmers" is like a VB.NET programmer saying he's a "Desktop Programmer".
Unlike desktop PCs, these machines are designed to deliver near-perfect reliability. They can be repaired or upgraded while still running, and their software is vastly more stable and reliable than that found on desktop machines. In addition, mainframes use massive data channels that let them process immense amounts of information.
This misses the issue too. All of these features can be found in non-mainframe configurations such clustering/blade solutions as well.
In fact I used to work at a couple companies who had a group of AS400 programmers. Almost every other day they were taking the system down for 15 minutes to install PTFs (program temporary fixes). Sure the hard drives were plug and play, but the software patches weren't. Our non-mainframe Windows and Linux boxes were hardly ever offline.
zero cost? Unless he's going to do all the GPLing on his own time then his company has to pay him to do it and keep up with it on an ongoinng basis.
zero cost? Suppose the software is some sort of sales workflow process that gives the business an edge over the competition. GPLing the code would cost the company it's competitive advantage.
I know I'm gonna get modded down but the sad fact is that most people in a capitalistic economy don't see benefits from giving something away that cost you a lot to make.
The other fact of life is that whether you are a giver or a taker (over the course of your OSS life) is also a matter of perspective.
Here's an example. I'll play devil's advocate. Let's say you own an auto insurance broker company. You have 5 employees. I also have an auto ins. company and I have 5 employees also. We both pride ourselves on providing the best customer service possible and we are both OSS zealots. However, you have 2 of your employees dedicated to developing a proactive customer service website that has really pleased your customers. You also GPL the code every month. I download and install your GPL code monthly for my company.
Who's the giver? Well you're giving OSS code. But your customers are switching to my company because I'm giving much better customer support. I've got 5 people dedicated to customer support and you've only got 3. In the end I'm giving great customer support and you're giving great OSS.
Moral of the story: Can you blame me because I choose not to give OSS and as a tradeoff choose to give my customers the best service possible?
You and I actually agree. I was just pointing out a mentality that many OSS zealots seem to have. They love free software (Linux, Firefox, etc.). Who doesn't? But they work from the inside in their respective companies to promote OSS. Their most effective selling point, many times, is that it is cheaper than the M$ solution. Let's be honest, corporate america really doesn't give a rat's rear-end about the advantages of "openness". It's all about reducing costs. The shareholders love Linux because it suposedly reduces costs, not because it is open.
So if the low cost is driving OSS's popularity, it kind of sucks that the volunteerism part is only relegated to the brilliant developers. Meanwile IBM contractors are charging $100/hr to install and maintain the stuff.
I guess it just seems odd to me. All these Linux zealot contractors out there are making a killing off of someone else's volunteer efforts.
Does anyone else raise an eyebrow at this, or is it just me?
As a software developer I find it sort of hypocritical that the entire OSS industry expects to get the software developer's labor for free but its perfectly okay to charge consulting fees for the brainless work of installing and maintaining it.
Seriously, don't you see something wrong with that?
Linux & Star Office too costly? Nope, that's not the problem. That software is free. It's the Linux zealot contractors and employees who do not practice what they preach. They tout the benefits to FOSS then turn around and bill the police department every month for their time.
Maybe if the entire Linux community (not just the software developers) offered their products and services for free Linux would be cheaper than MS.
Normal 2 button mice have to clearly defined buttons.
Let's consider that you are a tech support guy and there's a new receptionist that you have to train (an older lady).
* If she's using a traditional 2 button mouse with two clearly defined buttons at the top of the mouse, you need only ask her to, "Click the left mouse button." She'll know exactly what you mean.
* If she's using this new mac mouse how would you ask her to perform a left-mouse-click operation?
Hey I've got a great new idea for a fantastic new "Cool Keys" mac keyboard. Just have a flat translucent plastic panel. There are no markings on it whatsoever. But whenever you touch it the letter you touched glows in a pulsing green. People will look at it and declair, "Wow look how user-friendly that is! Microsoft's version is so difficult to use! Some of those Microsoft keyboards have 127 keys. It's amazing how innovative and user-friendly this new mac zero-key keyboard is!"
Thank goodness somebody's got it right! Yep, this mouse has the gee-wiz factor. But it's not user-friendly. I really don't think a two-year old could figure out all of these features hidden behind the facade of a solid plastic shell. Honestly you wouldn't even realize it acts like a single button mouse until somebody tells you you have to push down on the front end.
It's pretty but it's not intuitive. Remember: the definition of intuitive is "immediately obvious even to the most casual observer". Sorry Mac-zealots! The Mighty Mouse is not user friendly.
Most large mission critical systems already support this sort of thing. And if your mission critical system doesn't, I suppose you could always temporarily fake being in a different time-zone till a permanent solution is developed.
You've gotta know sales people are reading this article and thinking to themselves, "I'm not allowd to send spam email anymore but if I can get in on this RSS fad that might help."
And corporations will be thinking, "Oh I can send out a RSS to all the employees reminding them to wear their safety goggles when go into the plant!".
Eventually these spam-like uses will annoy the people and they will unsubscribe. I just hope corporations don't require users to require subscription to certain RSS feeds like they require them to check their corporate email account regularly. If this happens RSS will just be another form of corporate communication. No more effective and no less annoying.
Where I work there is an AS400 group. We often work together on projects where I put some "AS400" content on the web. Here are some of the things I had to get used to.
A "Database Table" is to a Windows programmer as a "File" is to an AS400 programmer.
A "File containing code" is to a windows programmer as an "Object" is to an AS400 programmer.
A "Database" is to a windows programmer as a "Library" is to an AS400 programmer.
They don't realize that their "Files" reside in a IBM DB2 database. Some of them still think the data is in huge text files!
Also, the 400 guys where I work don't even use SQL. So I'll write a SQL report for them and they'll come in and say something like, "I know you're going to kill me for this, but can you rearrange these columns." I don't know how the heck they are writing their reports that makes the columns a major pain to rearrange, but whatever!
The funny thing about their terminology is that all of their apps actually run off of a DB2 database. But there are a couple of them that look at me like I've got a third eyeball when I say something like, "Just hit the database and grab the account number from the Account table." They don't even have any idea what a database is. Just crazy.
Thanks for the intellegent detailed reply (no, seriously, that was good). The discussion seems to be revolving around the conservatives role in these problems.
My question is: What do Americans need to do to be aware of things that concern them? And how can we get more people to get out there and vote on their convictions or beliefs?
It's been a good chat, brsmith! I wish more people were thoughtful about their positions like you are!
The economy is strong. I don't know what you're talking about. 94+% of the country is employed. The stock market is doing well. Are you better or worse off today than when the libs started their downward fall in popularity (after y2k election)?
And the reason entrepreneurs are mostly conservatives is because they work hard for their money and they don't like it when the government taxes it away.
Entrepreneurs need to keep all the capital they can to move their business forward. I guess the libs don't understand that since their preferred method of raising capital is to just raise taxes (while conservatives would rather stimulate the economy to generate more tax dollars).
This means Firefox would cross the 10% market share by October.
What effect do you think the release of IE7 (maybe before October) will have on Firefox market share?
I know the IE haters won't switch. But what about the Firefox users who are using it because it's the latest thing and because of features IE6 doesn't have but IE7 will(tabbed browsing, RSS reader, etc.)?
Yes, I agree. This is a great discussion. I see the need for an opposing view in this discussion. Most people on/. don't seem to understand Human Depravity.
So I'm gonna throw my karma out the window.
The basic fact that the majority of humans would take the opportunity to rule the universe if it was presented to them means that the demand for the LPs will grow.
By the way, if you think you'll be a really cool human and take control with the purpose of giving back to humanity, there will be hundreds of millions of people who are jealous of you and would like to see you fall because of their different religious belief systems.
You getting the point here? We might as well start thinking about controlling the LPs because our enemys eventualy will too. Guaranteed.
A plastic windshield cover fell 60 feet and damaged several tiles. Forgive me, but I'm a bit skeptical that the problem of debris hitting the tiles at mach 25 has been fixed.
I have nothing against Open Source. I just want to point out that people generaly have priorities. Do you think it's wrong to want a job that pays good so you can support a family? If you answer "yes" then you are an insensitive clod who thinks that volunteerism should be everybody's top priority.
The world works on money. The electric company is not going to accept your OSS as payment. They want money. Until you change that don't be hating on people that have to put making money above volunteerism.
-- This post will get modded down because it comes across as "abrasive" just like Marc Fleury did in his JBOSS story. Oh well:o)
She just voted in favor of removing people's property rights (that was last week). That is a very highly publicized news item recently.
The/. community would be wise to support a replacement that respects the constitution and will vote against any decisions to take your rights away (be it property rights, patent reform, privacy rights, etc.)
.
I agree. Activist chicks are usually pretty smart. And the other thing about them is that they actually believe in something. Some even use logic and reason to convince people that their viewpoint is correct. That takes guts and even a lot of guys will wimp out with the, "Aw man, you know, everybody has different beliefs and that's fine." A girl seems twice as cool if she sticks up for what she believes in.
Slashdot Mirror
And with any luck, I'll get out of this support position and into a nice well-paid programming job at the same time.
Good luck with the "well-paid" part. From what I'v seen HR will tell you, "Just two weeks ago you were working in support with a support person's paycheck. Do you really think you can spend two weeks of company time to learn to write a program and get a significant pay raise?"
Remember, HR exists to pay the employee as little as possible and still keep them.
Yea, but 2 refrigerators could cost $300,000 + yearly support fees. A comparable cluster with a SAN would cost maybe $100k max and perform better in every area. A company could afford to hire an additional person with or two that savings. Plus the cluster would be more reliable and far more upgradable.
The issue is with RPG software. Nobody is learning to write RPG anymore.
Talking about the problem in terms of "Mainframe Programmers" is like a VB.NET programmer saying he's a "Desktop Programmer".
Unlike desktop PCs, these machines are designed to deliver near-perfect reliability. They can be repaired or upgraded while still running, and their software is vastly more stable and reliable than that found on desktop machines. In addition, mainframes use massive data channels that let them process immense amounts of information.
This misses the issue too. All of these features can be found in non-mainframe configurations such clustering/blade solutions as well.
In fact I used to work at a couple companies who had a group of AS400 programmers. Almost every other day they were taking the system down for 15 minutes to install PTFs (program temporary fixes). Sure the hard drives were plug and play, but the software patches weren't. Our non-mainframe Windows and Linux boxes were hardly ever offline.
zero cost? Unless he's going to do all the GPLing on his own time then his company has to pay him to do it and keep up with it on an ongoinng basis.
zero cost? Suppose the software is some sort of sales workflow process that gives the business an edge over the competition. GPLing the code would cost the company it's competitive advantage.
I know I'm gonna get modded down but the sad fact is that most people in a capitalistic economy don't see benefits from giving something away that cost you a lot to make.
The other fact of life is that whether you are a giver or a taker (over the course of your OSS life) is also a matter of perspective.
Here's an example. I'll play devil's advocate. Let's say you own an auto insurance broker company. You have 5 employees. I also have an auto ins. company and I have 5 employees also. We both pride ourselves on providing the best customer service possible and we are both OSS zealots. However, you have 2 of your employees dedicated to developing a proactive customer service website that has really pleased your customers. You also GPL the code every month. I download and install your GPL code monthly for my company.
Who's the giver? Well you're giving OSS code. But your customers are switching to my company because I'm giving much better customer support. I've got 5 people dedicated to customer support and you've only got 3. In the end I'm giving great customer support and you're giving great OSS.
Moral of the story: Can you blame me because I choose not to give OSS and as a tradeoff choose to give my customers the best service possible?
What do the slashdotters think?
You and I actually agree. I was just pointing out a mentality that many OSS zealots seem to have. They love free software (Linux, Firefox, etc.). Who doesn't? But they work from the inside in their respective companies to promote OSS. Their most effective selling point, many times, is that it is cheaper than the M$ solution. Let's be honest, corporate america really doesn't give a rat's rear-end about the advantages of "openness". It's all about reducing costs. The shareholders love Linux because it suposedly reduces costs, not because it is open.
So if the low cost is driving OSS's popularity, it kind of sucks that the volunteerism part is only relegated to the brilliant developers. Meanwile IBM contractors are charging $100/hr to install and maintain the stuff.
I guess it just seems odd to me. All these Linux zealot contractors out there are making a killing off of someone else's volunteer efforts.
Does anyone else raise an eyebrow at this, or is it just me?
As a software developer I find it sort of hypocritical that the entire OSS industry expects to get the software developer's labor for free but its perfectly okay to charge consulting fees for the brainless work of installing and maintaining it.
Seriously, don't you see something wrong with that?
Linux & Star Office too costly? Nope, that's not the problem. That software is free. It's the Linux zealot contractors and employees who do not practice what they preach. They tout the benefits to FOSS then turn around and bill the police department every month for their time.
Maybe if the entire Linux community (not just the software developers) offered their products and services for free Linux would be cheaper than MS.
yea, it's supposed to be, ". . .two clearly defined buttons". Good. Thanks.
Normal 2 button mice have to clearly defined buttons.
Let's consider that you are a tech support guy and there's a new receptionist that you have to train (an older lady).
* If she's using a traditional 2 button mouse with two clearly defined buttons at the top of the mouse, you need only ask her to, "Click the left mouse button." She'll know exactly what you mean.
* If she's using this new mac mouse how would you ask her to perform a left-mouse-click operation?
Hey I've got a great new idea for a fantastic new "Cool Keys" mac keyboard. Just have a flat translucent plastic panel. There are no markings on it whatsoever. But whenever you touch it the letter you touched glows in a pulsing green. People will look at it and declair, "Wow look how user-friendly that is! Microsoft's version is so difficult to use! Some of those Microsoft keyboards have 127 keys. It's amazing how innovative and user-friendly this new mac zero-key keyboard is!"
Thank goodness somebody's got it right! Yep, this mouse has the gee-wiz factor. But it's not user-friendly. I really don't think a two-year old could figure out all of these features hidden behind the facade of a solid plastic shell. Honestly you wouldn't even realize it acts like a single button mouse until somebody tells you you have to push down on the front end.
It's pretty but it's not intuitive. Remember: the definition of intuitive is "immediately obvious even to the most casual observer". Sorry Mac-zealots! The Mighty Mouse is not user friendly.
Most large mission critical systems already support this sort of thing. And if your mission critical system doesn't, I suppose you could always temporarily fake being in a different time-zone till a permanent solution is developed.
You've gotta know sales people are reading this article and thinking to themselves, "I'm not allowd to send spam email anymore but if I can get in on this RSS fad that might help." And corporations will be thinking, "Oh I can send out a RSS to all the employees reminding them to wear their safety goggles when go into the plant!".
Eventually these spam-like uses will annoy the people and they will unsubscribe. I just hope corporations don't require users to require subscription to certain RSS feeds like they require them to check their corporate email account regularly. If this happens RSS will just be another form of corporate communication. No more effective and no less annoying.
Where I work there is an AS400 group. We often work together on projects where I put some "AS400" content on the web. Here are some of the things I had to get used to.
A "Database Table" is to a Windows programmer as a "File" is to an AS400 programmer.
A "File containing code" is to a windows programmer as an "Object" is to an AS400 programmer.
A "Database" is to a windows programmer as a "Library" is to an AS400 programmer.
They don't realize that their "Files" reside in a IBM DB2 database. Some of them still think the data is in huge text files!
Also, the 400 guys where I work don't even use SQL. So I'll write a SQL report for them and they'll come in and say something like, "I know you're going to kill me for this, but can you rearrange these columns." I don't know how the heck they are writing their reports that makes the columns a major pain to rearrange, but whatever!
The funny thing about their terminology is that all of their apps actually run off of a DB2 database. But there are a couple of them that look at me like I've got a third eyeball when I say something like, "Just hit the database and grab the account number from the Account table." They don't even have any idea what a database is. Just crazy.
Thanks for the intellegent detailed reply (no, seriously, that was good). The discussion seems to be revolving around the conservatives role in these problems.
My question is:
What do Americans need to do to be aware of things that concern them? And how can we get more people to get out there and vote on their convictions or beliefs?
It's been a good chat, brsmith! I wish more people were thoughtful about their positions like you are!
The economy is strong. I don't know what you're talking about. 94+% of the country is employed. The stock market is doing well. Are you better or worse off today than when the libs started their downward fall in popularity (after y2k election)?
And the reason entrepreneurs are mostly conservatives is because they work hard for their money and they don't like it when the government taxes it away.
Entrepreneurs need to keep all the capital they can to move their business forward. I guess the libs don't understand that since their preferred method of raising capital is to just raise taxes (while conservatives would rather stimulate the economy to generate more tax dollars).
This means Firefox would cross the 10% market share by October.
What effect do you think the release of IE7 (maybe before October) will have on Firefox market share?
I know the IE haters won't switch. But what about the Firefox users who are using it because it's the latest thing and because of features IE6 doesn't have but IE7 will(tabbed browsing, RSS reader, etc.)?
Yes, I agree. This is a great discussion. I see the need for an opposing view in this discussion. Most people on /. don't seem to understand Human Depravity.
So I'm gonna throw my karma out the window.
The basic fact that the majority of humans would take the opportunity to rule the universe if it was presented to them means that the demand for the LPs will grow.
By the way, if you think you'll be a really cool human and take control with the purpose of giving back to humanity, there will be hundreds of millions of people who are jealous of you and would like to see you fall because of their different religious belief systems.
You getting the point here? We might as well start thinking about controlling the LPs because our enemys eventualy will too. Guaranteed.
A plastic windshield cover fell 60 feet and damaged several tiles. Forgive me, but I'm a bit skeptical that the problem of debris hitting the tiles at mach 25 has been fixed.
I have nothing against Open Source. I just want to point out that people generaly have priorities. Do you think it's wrong to want a job that pays good so you can support a family? If you answer "yes" then you are an insensitive clod who thinks that volunteerism should be everybody's top priority.
:o)
The world works on money. The electric company is not going to accept your OSS as payment. They want money. Until you change that don't be hating on people that have to put making money above volunteerism.
--
This post will get modded down because it comes across as "abrasive" just like Marc Fleury did in his JBOSS story. Oh well
Yep, I was wrong about her support for that decision. Sorry about that. And thanks for correcting me.
But supreme court justices will eventually effect YRO. That's why it's important.
She just voted in favor of removing people's property rights (that was last week). That is a very highly publicized news item recently.
/. community would be wise to support a replacement that respects the constitution and will vote against any decisions to take your rights away (be it property rights, patent reform, privacy rights, etc.)
The
.
Good point. But on the same note I've always noticed that that site is slow. Hopefully the new servers that Yahoo is providing will help with that.
So which high-traffic website have you written in PHP?
I agree. Activist chicks are usually pretty smart. And the other thing about them is that they actually believe in something. Some even use logic and reason to convince people that their viewpoint is correct. That takes guts and even a lot of guys will wimp out with the, "Aw man, you know, everybody has different beliefs and that's fine." A girl seems twice as cool if she sticks up for what she believes in.