Its not law, its a contract. And unfortunately they likely get away with it as its software.
When I originally heard this story I assumed they were going to say that the warranty on consumer cards wouldn't be honoured if used in a data center which wouldn't have been unreasonable.
Big corporations likely don't care since they already have negotiating power and aren't paying retail. I imagine this is aimed at some company doing what BackBlaze does with hard drives (e.g. buying whatever is most cost effective, even shucking consumer drives in enclosures).
I noticed yesterday that their "facts" article they're already claiming their processors have no bug and are working as intended:
Is this a bug in Intel hardware or processor design?
No. This is not a bug or a flaw in Intel products. These new exploits leverage data about the proper operation of processing techniques common to modern computing platforms, potentially compromising security even though a system is operating exactly as it is designed to. Based on the analysis to date, many types of computing devices — with many different vendors’ processors and operating systems — are susceptible to these exploits.
Trying to manufacture EVs without being a battery manufacturer is like trying to manufacture normal cars without being able to manufacture the bloody engine.
Car manufacturers already have experience with vast networks of suppliers, the already outsource a significant amount of parts. Batteries are one of the least complex parts of a car.
I think it actually fits the pattern, when they announced their truck a journalist pointed out that every time Tesla missed a target they announced something else to distract the press. I didn't exhaustively look at it but their examples seemed reasonable at the time.
Sure the lifespan is longer, but most cars have 3-5 year warranties and people anticipate 10-15 years. Personally I expect phones to last ~3-years now, and the warranty is 1-year. In both cases the warranty is about 1/3 the expected lifespan.
First of all, ten years isn't the right time frame. For most of that time replaceable batteries were still the norm. You have to focus on the the period in which replaceable batteries had become a rarity. During that shorter period, more phones than just those two developed battery issues over their lifetime.
The battery being user replaceable doesn't matter for this - even if users could replace the battery themselves we would have heard complaints about phones with widespread issues consistently crashing
The Samsung Galaxy S6, for example. That would have been a fiasco, except that by the time it started to be a problem it was overshadowed by a bigger fiasco Samsung was having with its next gen phones.
What Samsung S6 problem? High battery drain after the update? That sounds very much like laziness with software support than a hardware battery issue
No it wasn't a valid choice - users have a reasonable expectation that their device will properly function through the typical lifespans that product - in some jurisdictions there are laws providing legal warranties. Ignoring safety, what would you think if your cars engine would stall when accelerating to highway speeds after 3-5 years?
Except that we've had modern smart phones for 10-years and the only models that I've heard about with widespread complaints about this issue are the Nexus 6P and the iphone 6. If this were purely physics we would be hearing this for every model yet - heck on the Android side we even have phones using the same processor as the 6P but don't seem to have the issue.
Why is the problem endemic in a handful of models? That suggests to me the engineers didn't design the phone or battery correctly or some sort of widespread manufacturing error. Either way the companies behind these problematic devices should be fixing them for free for the device lifespan.
Oh, so they're "hiding" them are they, so, when in 02/17 Apple said [techcrunch.com] that maximum power draws were causing shutdowns and that they were using power management to avoid them, that was their way of "hiding" this.
Did they tell the users they were negatively impacting their phone? No, they made it slower without informing affected user or making note of the behaviour anywhere. And here is the definition for you: the action of concealing someone or something.
And AGAIN, I never said that out of spec batteries are "normal", but as anyone with a brain realizes, they DO occur more and more as the battery ages. And AGAIN, if you have an out of spec battery within warranty period, Apple ALREADY replaces the battery for free.
Again straw man. We were talking about phones spontaenously rebooting, and as per the above Apple hid the fact the device was defective from the user. Users have reasonable expectations about device lifespan, the purpose warranties is to cover one-off flaws not large fuck-ups like we see here or with the Nexus 6P. Here is another example for you, Google the Porsche 996 IMS bearing class action.
Naaah, this is you going to your grocer whining that the new chocolate milk recipe you bought 4 months ago has gone bad, that he only came out with the new recipe to hide your ability to determine that it had gone bad and that you deserve to get all the free milk you want. In fact it you never even bought any of that brand's milk you're just arguing that everyone deserves free milk -- because milk goes bad.
No its more like the milk goes sour before the expiration date because the store failed to refrigerate it, or the store changes the expiration on meat (which is illegal).
Newsflash: Apple already replaces defective batteries for free.
Except now they're hiding defective batteries to avoid doing it by negatively impacting their customers
Now what to do about older out of spec batteries? Apple's patch avoids spontaneous shutdowns.
Again, this is not normal for smart phones, its happening to a handful of manufacturers including Apple who should step up and accept responsibility. Apple is not accepting responsibility, they're fucking over users
Tell us, do you also go whining to your gas station complaining that they "should" give you free gas because you've used up what you bought? To your grocer for free milk? Toothpaste? Toilet paper?
Again, straw man argument. If those companies start selling you a defective product then yes they should replace it
I'd say tis more the constant shilling of people holding bitcoins who've been performing a pump and dump for several years. Unfortunately news agencies haven't done due diligence and often interview these bozos for bitcoin stories without proper disclosure of conflicts of interest as they would with traders. Minimally if most articles had noted that currency creators allocated themselves huge amounts of currencies the average person would have immediately had alarm bells ringing.
This is Apple giving their clients a slower but better experience by NOT allowing the devices to reboot when the battery is unable to deliver enough and the alternative is spontaneously rebooting.
Again you give Apple a free pass - Apple should be replacing the battery for free. This problem has been limited to a handful of devices, it is not something happening to most smart phone models. The responsible party here is Apple for selling a defective product.
Pray google for spontaneous shutdown battery or reboot plus samsung or android or HTC or huawei or nexus or...
Again, couple devices it has not been an endemic problem in the vast majority of smart phones. There are a couple, e.g. Nexus 6p and iphone 6 in which it has been a huge issue.
Apple is merely the first to implement a fix.
Look at the benchmarks, they go from clustering at 2500 to clusters at 2200, 1700, 1400 and 1000. Do you really consider a 60% performance penalty a fix? The users on the bottom end of that spectrum will feel the difference.
This is not Apple doing something wonderful for the customer, this is Apple deciding to protect their bottom line and not replacing batteries or be subject a class action suit for the flawed design or manufacturing process.
Given that the degradation over time is present on _all_ LI-ION phones you're claiming that spontaneous reboots/shutdowns are preferable.
While battery degradation is normal, spontaneous reboots are not and have only been occurring on a couple devices. And no, I'm claiming that manufacturers need to engineer them properly or they need to supply free battery replacements for the lifetime of the devices.
Same argument could be made about Amazon refusing to sell other streaming devices. Amazon also violated the Youtube terms of service when they implemented their Youtube player. Either way it seems pretty unlikely that Youtube can be assailed at this point.
Slashdot Mirror
Its also classic investment psychology, people buy high and sell low.
They do their damnedest to ensure people use their phones as much as possible.
Its not law, its a contract. And unfortunately they likely get away with it as its software.
When I originally heard this story I assumed they were going to say that the warranty on consumer cards wouldn't be honoured if used in a data center which wouldn't have been unreasonable.
Big corporations likely don't care since they already have negotiating power and aren't paying retail. I imagine this is aimed at some company doing what BackBlaze does with hard drives (e.g. buying whatever is most cost effective, even shucking consumer drives in enclosures).
What if Ford said they'd remotely disable your car if you went over the speed limit?
Is this a bug in Intel hardware or processor design?
No. This is not a bug or a flaw in Intel products. These new exploits leverage data about the proper operation of processing techniques common to modern computing platforms, potentially compromising security even though a system is operating exactly as it is designed to. Based on the analysis to date, many types of computing devices — with many different vendors’ processors and operating systems — are susceptible to these exploits.
Trying to manufacture EVs without being a battery manufacturer is like trying to manufacture normal cars without being able to manufacture the bloody engine.
Car manufacturers already have experience with vast networks of suppliers, the already outsource a significant amount of parts. Batteries are one of the least complex parts of a car.
I think it actually fits the pattern, when they announced their truck a journalist pointed out that every time Tesla missed a target they announced something else to distract the press. I didn't exhaustively look at it but their examples seemed reasonable at the time.
Sure the lifespan is longer, but most cars have 3-5 year warranties and people anticipate 10-15 years. Personally I expect phones to last ~3-years now, and the warranty is 1-year. In both cases the warranty is about 1/3 the expected lifespan.
So is the part that they've roped off public property? Or required to be there as part of their building permits?
Again, in the case of the Nexus 6P there are phones with identical processors that do not exhibit the issue.
First of all, ten years isn't the right time frame. For most of that time replaceable batteries were still the norm. You have to focus on the the period in which replaceable batteries had become a rarity. During that shorter period, more phones than just those two developed battery issues over their lifetime.
The battery being user replaceable doesn't matter for this - even if users could replace the battery themselves we would have heard complaints about phones with widespread issues consistently crashing
The Samsung Galaxy S6, for example. That would have been a fiasco, except that by the time it started to be a problem it was overshadowed by a bigger fiasco Samsung was having with its next gen phones.
What Samsung S6 problem? High battery drain after the update? That sounds very much like laziness with software support than a hardware battery issue
No it wasn't a valid choice - users have a reasonable expectation that their device will properly function through the typical lifespans that product - in some jurisdictions there are laws providing legal warranties. Ignoring safety, what would you think if your cars engine would stall when accelerating to highway speeds after 3-5 years?
Except that we've had modern smart phones for 10-years and the only models that I've heard about with widespread complaints about this issue are the Nexus 6P and the iphone 6. If this were purely physics we would be hearing this for every model yet - heck on the Android side we even have phones using the same processor as the 6P but don't seem to have the issue.
Why is the problem endemic in a handful of models? That suggests to me the engineers didn't design the phone or battery correctly or some sort of widespread manufacturing error. Either way the companies behind these problematic devices should be fixing them for free for the device lifespan.
Oh, so they're "hiding" them are they, so, when in 02/17 Apple said [techcrunch.com] that maximum power draws were causing shutdowns and that they were using power management to avoid them, that was their way of "hiding" this.
Did they tell the users they were negatively impacting their phone? No, they made it slower without informing affected user or making note of the behaviour anywhere. And here is the definition for you: the action of concealing someone or something.
And AGAIN, I never said that out of spec batteries are "normal", but as anyone with a brain realizes, they DO occur more and more as the battery ages. And AGAIN, if you have an out of spec battery within warranty period, Apple ALREADY replaces the battery for free.
Again straw man. We were talking about phones spontaenously rebooting, and as per the above Apple hid the fact the device was defective from the user. Users have reasonable expectations about device lifespan, the purpose warranties is to cover one-off flaws not large fuck-ups like we see here or with the Nexus 6P. Here is another example for you, Google the Porsche 996 IMS bearing class action.
Naaah, this is you going to your grocer whining that the new chocolate milk recipe you bought 4 months ago has gone bad, that he only came out with the new recipe to hide your ability to determine that it had gone bad and that you deserve to get all the free milk you want. In fact it you never even bought any of that brand's milk you're just arguing that everyone deserves free milk -- because milk goes bad.
No its more like the milk goes sour before the expiration date because the store failed to refrigerate it, or the store changes the expiration on meat (which is illegal).
Newsflash: Apple already replaces defective batteries for free.
Except now they're hiding defective batteries to avoid doing it by negatively impacting their customers
Now what to do about older out of spec batteries? Apple's patch avoids spontaneous shutdowns.
Again, this is not normal for smart phones, its happening to a handful of manufacturers including Apple who should step up and accept responsibility. Apple is not accepting responsibility, they're fucking over users
Tell us, do you also go whining to your gas station complaining that they "should" give you free gas because you've used up what you bought? To your grocer for free milk? Toothpaste? Toilet paper?
Again, straw man argument. If those companies start selling you a defective product then yes they should replace it
I'd say tis more the constant shilling of people holding bitcoins who've been performing a pump and dump for several years. Unfortunately news agencies haven't done due diligence and often interview these bozos for bitcoin stories without proper disclosure of conflicts of interest as they would with traders. Minimally if most articles had noted that currency creators allocated themselves huge amounts of currencies the average person would have immediately had alarm bells ringing.
This is Apple giving their clients a slower but better experience by NOT allowing the devices to reboot when the battery is unable to deliver enough and the alternative is spontaneously rebooting.
Again you give Apple a free pass - Apple should be replacing the battery for free. This problem has been limited to a handful of devices, it is not something happening to most smart phone models. The responsible party here is Apple for selling a defective product.
There is disagree - what about something like no-mans sky for example? Such a game has to be fully procedural but can work.
Wait.... you're pointing at No Man's Sky of all things as a positive thing? You realize that game bombed and was universally panned.
Pray google for spontaneous shutdown battery or reboot plus samsung or android or HTC or huawei or nexus or ...
Again, couple devices it has not been an endemic problem in the vast majority of smart phones. There are a couple, e.g. Nexus 6p and iphone 6 in which it has been a huge issue.
Apple is merely the first to implement a fix.
Look at the benchmarks, they go from clustering at 2500 to clusters at 2200, 1700, 1400 and 1000. Do you really consider a 60% performance penalty a fix? The users on the bottom end of that spectrum will feel the difference.
This is not Apple doing something wonderful for the customer, this is Apple deciding to protect their bottom line and not replacing batteries or be subject a class action suit for the flawed design or manufacturing process.
I believe the site you wanted to comment on is over there
Given that the degradation over time is present on _all_ LI-ION phones you're claiming that spontaneous reboots/shutdowns are preferable.
While battery degradation is normal, spontaneous reboots are not and have only been occurring on a couple devices. And no, I'm claiming that manufacturers need to engineer them properly or they need to supply free battery replacements for the lifetime of the devices.
Same argument could be made about Amazon refusing to sell other streaming devices. Amazon also violated the Youtube terms of service when they implemented their Youtube player. Either way it seems pretty unlikely that Youtube can be assailed at this point.
Yes, its other companies trying to detract from the market leader.