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Don't Pirate Or We'll Mess With Your Connected Thermostats, Warns East Coast ISP (engadget.com)
Internet service provider Armstrong Zoom has roughly a million subscribers in the Northeastern part of the U.S. and is keen to punish those it believes are using file-sharing services. According to Engadget, "the ISP's response to allegedly naughty customers is bandwidth throttling, which is when an ISP intentionally slows down your internet service based on what you're doing online. Armstrong Zoom's warning letter openly threatens its suspected file-sharing customers about its ability to use or control their webcams and connected thermostats." From the report: The East Coast company stated: "Please be advised that this may affect other services which you may have connected to your internet service, such as the ability to control your thermostat remotely or video monitoring services." All U.S. states served by Armstrong Zoom will be experiencing temperatures around or under freezing over the weekend and into the near future. Bandwidth throttling for customers in those areas who have connected thermostats could mean the difference between sickness and health, or even life and death. Seems like an extreme punishment for any allegedly downloaded Game of Thrones cam rips.
or i will take an axe to your series of pipes
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Bandwidth throttling for customers in those areas who have connected thermostats could mean the difference between sickness and health, or even life and death.
If you are needing to adjust your thermostat using the network, that means you aren't at home to do it manually. You are not where the thermostat controls the temperature. I.e., if you freeze to death because you didn't walk across the room to turn the thermostat up, it ain't the ISPs fault.
Yeah, maybe death of your pet fish if you aren't home to turn it up and the tank gets too cold, but "difference between ... life and death" is not something you usually hear with reference to fish.
Or are people facing death from the cold really so lazy that they'd rather freeze than walk across the room?
This is a dupe post.
All Armstrong Zoom customers cancel/switch your ISP. In a few months they'll either change their attitude or go bye bye. Concast customers should do the same.
I've said it before, and i will say it again: Your internet provider is a conduit on which multiple services rely. It cannot and should not, by law, be used to control or limit access, or police content either of it's own accord or upon request of external parties.
Of course, personally, I am strongly against connecting any devices (other than computers) in my home to the outside facing network, but that's beside the point.
Hooray! I remember reading the exact same story on /. a few days ago.
Let me google it, "connected thermostat site:slashdot.org". Here we go:
https://yro.slashdot.org/story...
Maybe editor should do the same and Google it before posting dupes ;-)
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
and it turns out a thermostat is cheaper than the stuff people are pirating, so I'm guessing they'll opt for the former.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
What kind of moron rely on the internet, for their heating.
If they don't have a physical control panel they can use without the internet, they deserve it.
"Remotely" means outside of your home network. If you're freezing to death at home because you can't control your remote thermostat, then you've got larger problems... like connecting to your own wifi or walking over to the damn thing. They're saying they'll embargo network services to the outside world, not that they'll brick your damn router.
They aren't messing with anything other than saying if you pirate we'll nuke your internet so you won't be able to use all the internet things you like to use. All of this is likely covered in the TOS.
http://armstrongonewire.com/Co...
I bet you think your IoT buzzword is great now, motherfuckers.
Since they are just threatening to throttle, and not cut off, how much bandwidth does a thermostat need? And for that matter, who changes the thermostat settings all that frequently? Seems to me this is just a little bit of a scare tactic on the thermostat issue. Security video, yeah, I can see throttling affecting that, but I guess I am just missing something in how this internet enabled thermostat works and why they need to be changed, apparently, so frequently.
In practice temperatures change slowly enough that even getting a single packet every half hour would probably be adequate for keeping a temperature entirely livable.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Ummm. This is nothing a Cradlepoint and a 4G USB modem can't Fix...
You wouldn't have to worry about your ability to turn it up remotely if you didn't turn it down to start with before you left home.
It's a pretty well know fact that it takes [i]more[/i] energy to change the temperature in a home than to maintain a set temperature. If you're only in the house every other season that's one thing, but it's these people who insist on micromanaging their heating and cooling on an hourly basis who are missing the point.
And as for those people who are worried about pipes freezing -- they shouldn't be turning their furnace completely off to start with. Leave the thermostat at 50 degrees at least. Leave the cabinets open to allow the pipes better circulation with the warm air in the house (it's not like you're home anyway to be bothered by those doors), get pipe warmers and just hook them up and leave them plugged in. Heck. I bet you could set up a smarthome system that would turn them on and off for you using local temperature sensors (no internet needed). But instead, you buy a three hundred dollar thermostat and pay for internet service for an empty house for months you're not there, and you call this "saving money".
And I know which wires to twist together to make the heat come on. Damn, I'm a human thermostat, no internet required.
Armstrong has a very solid reputation in the NE Ohio area. They invested well into the area and as a result all of their speeds are fast. I always brag about how much better we have it than areas that have companies like Comcast, TW, etc. Then they pull a dumb... dumb... move like this... Facepalm...
Don't bother with the thermostat threat. Go right for where it hurts. Point out that PornHub will buffer like crazy.
and have their bandwidth reduced so there'd be less dupes.
Everyone knows only the man of the house touches the thermostat
A POS of a company if this is true. They are praying on the ignorance of any customer unforunately forced to use them as an ISP. This Company is poison and extremely unethical to scare their customers that do not understand current tech!
;)
Just my 2 cents
Q: Why is starting a comment in the Subject: line incredibly annoying?
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
When your connection gets throttled it throttles everything. That also might affect your VoIP service and everything else connected to your internet.
you're doing something wrong. But seriously, I worked on environmental control systems in the early 80s that used 56k dedicated lines. Even then, bandwidth wasn't a problem.
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Comment removed based on user account deletion
An excellent argument (as if we needed another) of why the "Internet of Things" is and was a terrible idea. Because even if the ISP never carries out such a threat, any network failure could just as easily cripple everybody's Echos and Nests. My computer and smartphones connect to the Internet; my fridge, stove, thermostat and other appliances don't need to.
And never will.
Stop trying to paint this as an NN issue when it is clearly not.
"Bandwidth throttling for customers in those areas who have connected thermostats could mean the difference between sickness and health, or even life and death."
Complete bullshit, how much bandwidth is required to adjust a thermostat?
and don't have anything online that can be seen by any other network.
Keep your home and its needed networks away from the open internet.
Use the ISP internet with a VPN.
Find other ways to secure the CCTV so CCTV keeps working.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Because quite a bunch of you have no idea what a Thermostat is, or why it's even "Internet enabled" to begin with if you think is even remotely close to being an issue. How can you call yourselves nerds and not even have a smidgen of a clue of how a Thermostat operates and what it is used for ?
The heck do Internet thermostats even have to do with this story ? ISP throttles you if they catch you infringing copyright. That's it. That doesn't impact your Thermostat at all.
Even my freaking Grand mother knows what a Thermostat is and how it operates.
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
I said this about Google Post the other day; about them policing the internet and blocking pirating searches and I will say it again here. This ISP is not the police they provide a service how someone uses it is up to them. If they break the law it is up to the authorities to punish them NOT the ISP. I will use and example. This is like buying a car and the dealership says they are not going to fix your engine under warranty because you are using the car to transport cocaine. It is not the dealerships responsibility to enforce laws. It is not the ISP's responsibility to enforce laws. The other take I see here is they are threating their customers a good lawyer could sue them and win for threating to kill them. Just saying!
If you have species that are that sensitive to the cold, not to mention the gradual change given the heavy moderation of all the water in a fish tank, you'll have an automatic heater in there.
But yes, any "internet connected" thermostat should still have a minimum allowed temperature (mine is 55F) that you can program in, and the worst case is that it is a bit chilly when you get home and turn it up manually.
I don't read AC A human right
If I'm paying $50 for 50Mbps service and they throttle me to 1Mbps, do I owe them more than $1?
one lawyer or rich guy to be wrongfully throttled and this isp will have a new owner^h^h^h^h^hmaster
No worries here.
My thermostat is hard wired to my land line.
Isn't even threatening to do that illegal? This is vigilante justice from the ISP and they're not even the injured party here even in the cases where they are actually right that it's piracy and not just a World of Warcraft patch or a work VPN.
That is why I refused to buy a smart thermostat and instead, built my own based on a Raspberry Pi with a TFT touch screen.
Didn't want Nest/Google nor anyone else "managing" my HVAC data, thank you very much.
Seems like I made the right choice, eh?
Details here: https://github.com/chaeron/thermostat
Back then, loading a web page didn't take 3 minutes (literally) on a 56k connection like it does now. Remember that all of these "smart" devices today are also busy harvesting all sorts of personal goodies unlike your environmental control systems.
This is a 100% click bait article, and I'm disappointed in you Slashdot. (1) Smart thermostats need very little bandwidth at all to operate remotely (e.g. via a smartphone or web page). It's not like your smart thermostat is constantly streaming videos or downloading updates (although the occasional update does happen). The ISP clearly said that they will throttle your bandwidth if they think you are engaging in illegal pirate activity. So it might take 1 minute instead of 5 seconds to adjust the temperature remotely, even if you are throttled. (2) Most smart thermostats (definitely the Nest) have a set points where you define a minimum temperature that it will not go below. Even if you have no internet connection, your thermostat will ensure that you maintain a minimum, safe temperature level. (3) If you're home, you can still manually adjust the temperature by walking over the the thermostat and turning the dial.
Looks like at least this ISP no longer wants to be a common carrier and it does want to be responsible for all data on its lines. Looks like a trap to me.
What happens when there is a real story about something important and people dismiss it as more senseless noise by know nothing trolls?
I suspect the answer is probably nothing...
And now I can't turn on my furnace from my mobile phone... itttt'ssss cccooolllddd in here. I can't get up to turn it on because the floor is covered with ice after pipes froze and burst after the power company also shut off my power for non-payment. I fall down every time I try to stand.
To make matters worse my phone will only let me dial 911 and the Internet does not work. I tried calling 911 and explained to them not having Internet access is an emergency but the rude person on the other end says I'll be arrested if I call back.
Please help me.
If you pirate we will let your house burn down!
We will make sure your house is burgled!
We will let your dear old Mother or Grandmother freeze to death!
So there!
I wonder if the CEO of Armstrong Zoom has a network connected thermostat, webcams or CCTV surveillance/alarm system?
People that buy thermostat, which depends on external server for proper operation deserve to be frozen to death.
What they'll do if not the evil will of ISP, but natural force would cut them off internet?
For instance if snowstorm would uproot couple of poles and break the wires?
(Really the electricity would also be cut, so you'll need to keep a gasoline generator in the basement if your heating depend on electricity).
...you're getting exactly what you deserve.P
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
and repeat are in a boat...
Have fun with that
Sounds like a threat, mister. How's your family? I see your kid goes to a nice school. Shame about the road he's got to cross. Accidents happened. Just sayin'.
Please allow me to explain again why I REFUSE to use any "cloud connected" IoT devices. It either works on the local lan, not connected to the internet, or I refuse to even power that junk. Period.
My thermistat is dumb, and is going to stay dumb until I can fix it in a way that doesn't try to lock me in to some cloud service.
Why? This article is fucking why. That is not all, but its enough.
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If anyone dies because they don't have heat the 'clever' manager who approved this propaganda may be tried with murder.
Really?
So they said they would do it. What happens if they "kill grandma"? What happens when the pipes in the basement bust, and a third of the value of the home is lost to water damage? They have some level of culpability, right? And in this they just established a minimum level of premeditation.
Have they heard of swatting? You know people die from that right? What happens when someone decides to thermostat-swat using the internet company? The person at the house might not be doing any of the stuff, their system can be hacked without their knowledge.
Yet the ISP can kill grandma by freezing her to death in her sleep.
Yet the ISP can destroy the home with water damage from burst frozen pipes.
This sounds profoundly foolish. That ISP better pray that it never (ever ever) has a hand in an event like these. They will discover a level of very very bad publicity and punitive damages they have to payout that will be existential.
Due process. Rule of Law. Welcome to America.
then maybe you worry!
Once the Internet of Things takes off, we will be even more vulnerable to this sort of threat from our ISPs: Don't be bad or we'll turn off your refrigerator and make all your food spoil. What about that 200 pounds of venison in your freezer, eh?
Is there a single person that has an inkling of how the Internet works that has any device in their home that is controllable via a third-party? If so, they're a moron and deserve what they get. The only people to feel sorry for are those that don't understand what they're buying. People who understand the Internet are waiting for IOT devices that are controlled on the LAN by the owner with no possibility of remote access (unless the owner knows how to set up a VPN or SSH access). No third parties.
A really GOOD reason to disconnect from the IoT, yes?
your thermostat to the net you're a friggin' retard. Pure and simple.
I'll blow a hole into your skull. Because to do so, you have to break into my home.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I can't be the only one who sees some weight of liability in the court of the thermostat designer who made their system unnecessarily dependent on the availability of internet access.
We're talking about people who are paying their bills who may be violating copyright.
Cutting off someone's heat or AC could in extreme cases lead to death and in lesser cases could actually lead to property damage. I do worry that my pipes might freeze every time the temperature dips below zero (Fahrenheit).
Fortunately I can pay my bills so I'm not too familiar with the process but I do know that my local utility just can't shut you off for missing one or even 2 bills (maybe after three). I'm not going to test the system but I am blessed in many ways and can pay the bills. What if I couldn't? Would homelessness be the next logical step?
At least where I live they're not going to make you freeze to death even if you don't pay your bill on time. So what if I pirated the last season of Breaking Bad? (that was in fact the last thing I torrented).
Walter White wants his paycheck and if you don't come up with the money you're gonna freeze to death!!
Just don't trust ANY programmable thermostat, never mind the Internet-connected ones which are vulnerable to hacking and stuff like this.
Up here in Ottawa, Canada - which is damned cold at the moment, -25C but cools things as fast as if it was -40C with the wind chill - any heating system outage could do serious damage to your home.
You're not worried just about frozen pipes. I've personally seen the water in the bowl of a toilet freeze, split the bowl, and cause the tank to fall over. The fill valve in the toilet then helpfully tried to keep the tank full... tens of thousands of dollars in damage, and, to add insult to injury, a huge water bill.
It could be an asshole ISP, North Korean hackers, or it could be a pair of weak AA batteries while you're away on vacation, but the more complicated something is, the more prone it is to failure. Even a top-quality Honeywell Commercial can't turn on the heat if it's got dead batteries.
When you install a programmable thermostat, keep the old one!
Most central heating systems have thermostat terminals labeled R and W (or W1). When R is connected to W, the furnace will go through its startup rituals and produce heat. As soon as you disconnect them, the furnace will start its shutdown rituals.
Startup/shutdown may take a few seconds before the furnace appears to do anything. Any relatively modern (since 1990 or so) gas or oil furnace will do things like start the drafting fan (blows air up the chimney) and heat the igniters before it turns on the fuel, and once it has the fuel burning, it will wait until the heat exchanger is warm before it turns on the blower that moves the warm air into your home. Likewise, shutdown may take a few seconds, usually with the main blower running until the heat exchanger has given up all its heat.
Mount the old mechanical thermostat someplace where it will ensure the house never gets below about 15C. Connect its R and W (W1) terminals in parallel with the R and W terminals on your new thermostat, so that they work as an OR gate (two switches in parallel).
That way, even if the programmable - or those silly/dangerous Nest things - fails, the old-school mechanical thermostat will click the heat on.
Keep the old thermostat set to a lower temperature than the house should ever normally reach and it won't interfere with the energy-savings provided by the programmable thermostat.
When you're connecting the old thermostat as a failsafe, don't assume that the colors on the wiring mean anything - not all R terminals are connected to the red wire, and not all W terminals are connected to the white wire!
The G and the Y terminals control other functions in your furnace, no need to touch them.
R - transformer common, 24V AC
W - call for heat (W1, W2, etc. are for multistage furnaces - use W1)
Y - call for air conditioning - leave it alone
G - call for fan (the fan will start automatically when the furnace is heating or cooling, connecting R-G will cause the fan to run continuously for air flow)
Other terminals can be Googled.
Do the wiring carefully, using proper thermostat/doorbell wire. Put a sticker on your furnace to remind you of where you mounted the backup thermostat. If you're in the least bit unsure of what I'm describing, call a licensed HVAC contractor.
A final warning is that while this COULD be done with baseboards and other line-operated electric heat, it would require suitable thermostats and a licensed electrician to do it - burning your house down to save a flood is counterproductive.
This is a great way to recycle an old mercury-filled thermostat; you've changed it from hazardous waste into a safety device.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
Power is one of the most recurrent themes in human history: Sooner or later it falls into the hands of someone who will abuse it. In this case it was even sooner than expected.
Armstrong Zoom wants to be judge, jury, executioner, awesome, must be nice to live in a non-democratic country. In the United States of America, companies can not be a court system. Turn off the client or let them continue, but kill someone, company is out of business & mgmt. should be killed since locking them up in jail is not good enough.
Internet connected thermostat - what a fucking stupid idea. Regardless of the apparently abysmally implemented security.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"