Windows CE devices, and a few others (like the philips genie cellphones) do voice recognition already.
And voice recognition is GOOD. If we start building small devices, cell phones the size of a com badge for example, how the heck are we going to communicate with them? It's only natural to use voice recognition when dialing with a cellphone and other small devices, unless you want to carry around a toothpick.
It's written by Steven Miller at Microosoft. And it does a heck of a lot more than lsit dependencies, it also tells you what functions of the dependent DLLs are used, DLL versions, base addresses etc etc. It can list dependencies for any valid Win32 module (DLL, EXE, OCX etc). Quite a useful app, and essential for Windows developers.
The executable is called "depends.exe" which comes with the NT Resource kit (amongst some other really cool utilities - many are equivalents of unix commands).
If you have a secret for avoiding DLL Hell, I'd sure like to know it. Yes, I run Windows 2000 with system file protection on;). Windows 2000 also has 'personal dlls' for apps that need to ensure the DLL version doesn't change.
In Windows, well, if you know a way to list all the files that come with MSOffice and all the DLLs it requires, I'd sure like to know.
Yeah, it's called dependency walker, it comes with Visual Studio (with source I believe). I think it comes with the platform SDK too. It lists all DLLs, etc that an app depends on. You can also use "DUMPBIN.EXE" with the/dependents switch to list dependencies from the command line.
If you can get Windows to tell me the files it's about to uninstall, to check program dependencies before uninstalling, or even to present a uniform uninstallation interface instead of the hodgepodge of hundreds of different uninstall.exe's made by dozens of different companies, well, I'd sure like to know.
It's up to an application to do it's installing uninstalling. However, Windows has (since win95) offered installation APIs which are generally followed "ok" by installtion programs such as installshield. Windows 2000 does offer a cooler extended install API set, allowing apps to 'self heal' when files go missing or get deleted. In Redhat, as long as you use RPMs, you'll be fine, but even then it's still a chore to make sure you have the right dependencies downloaded and installed.
Windows, well, if you know a way to get setup.exe to reveal what files it's going to install where, and what DLLs the installed program needs, I'd sure like to know Fault of InstallShield and windows application makers. Maybe a fault of Microsoft for not enforcing it more (i guess even if they did they'd be sued and again for trying to be a bully).
Now you may rightly argue that grandma doesn't need to know anything about DLLs to install her software, but that's no justification for leaving out the capability entirely. System administrators use Windows too, and all the sysadmins I know would be very happy if it could be possible to have Windows make their lives easier in ways that Linux already is.
If you're an experienced Windows programmer, you should know how to do most of the above. Most microsoft setups (like Windows) consist of cab files which you can list contents of etc.
Don't know what kind of crappy setup you had. But Windows is pretty much the same, set it up and it goes on forever. The problem is most people don't have longstanding static configurations. Eventually they'll want to change something/add something and that's where Linux is _STILL_ harder.
But you presume that Windows is unstable....so how is it that the games are stable? When it crashes, how do you know it's windows and not blizzard's games.
First, I have top convince my MS-addicted friends that yes, there are such things as *spreadsheets* and *web browsers* for Linux. I find this gap in understanding amazing. </i>
Yes, but StarOffice5.1 is no where near as advanced as Office 2000 still! Lack of antialising makes documents look horrible and ugly. And well, no need to coment on the web browsers available.
Anyway, the guys at the store thought Linux was a waste of shelf space for awhile at least until the base grew larger. I tried to explain but they were clueless. </i>
Not, how many people buy Linux games compared to windows games? 0.001%?
I've noticed quite a few posts saying that client side is all bad etc etc. Well, I was just reading an msdn mag article today (yes microsoft:|) and it demonstrated some pretty awesome stuff you could do with client side.
Essentially, what it was doing was a client side web app inside IE would query a SQL server over the internet (SQL Server supports queries over HTTP now) and request SQL to send the result as XML. What it queried was vector data for New York city. It would then transform this XML data returned by SQL Server using XSL into VML, then use IE5's VML capabilities to render the VML on the page, and voila, a nice map of new york, all generated DYNAMICALLY over the internet, and just about all client side. The only thing the server had to do was send the database records over as XML (all inbuilt into SQL & IIS).
Sounds a bit like a sales pitch I know, but if that's not COOOOOOL, I don't know what is. It's certainly one of the most impressive demonstrations of SQL+IIS+XML+IE5 together. Microsoft thru all it's flaws can certainly grab onto a technology (like HTML/XML/HTTP, and the Internet) and integrate it into all their products pretty consistantly.
This kind of stuff is the stuff that makes me droool, and really is being used on LANs out there now days, it's a bit too 'new' to be used live on the internet (considering how far behind netscape is:/).
If you want to check it out, here's the URL to the article and source.
IE5 is getting there, if you look under [Tools Internet Options] -> [Security] -> [Custom Level] -> [Microsof VM] -> [Custom] -> [Java Custom Settings]
Then there's some pretty funky stuff you can do with twiddling what java can and can not do. Can't do everything you want *yet*.
However, you can always write IE5 plugins to intercept and override the popups and stuff.
Yeah, if your filesystem is 32bit. If you give NT programming a try, you'll notice can read files using 64bit pointers. Notice Win32 functions like GetFileSize etc work with 64bit numbers. GetFileSize as an example, returns the low order dword or the filesize, and takes in a dword pointer which it fills with the high order dword. A bit yucky, but makes it so 32bit users can use ignore the highword parameter (use NULL).
"Technologists often forget the general user," Torvalds said. "Technology is only as good as the user experience. That is something that technology groups very often forget." </i>
Geee, sounds a bit like something Bill Gates and Microsoft have been saying themselves for years. Why do you think they're so successful developer and user wise? And why they have so much public support.
It's not suprising now that Linux has got corporate support that Linus starts leaning in different directions.
And it's nice to know that he now admits NT 'trounced' Linux then. I remember Linus being rather angry about those tests, going on about Marketing, and how Microsoft would do anything possible to survive.
Yes, but I was defending NT's memory protection:). I got the impression that it was thought NT didn't have very good memory protection so as to keep DOS compatability.
There's also nothing stopping Microsoft from emulating standard hardware and marshalling it to the HAL (like VMWare does) except that it's not considered as important. I don't think Microsoft do the DOS emulation for NT tho, they got the guys to do SoftPC to do it.
They can't implement strong memory protection a la NT without breaking a lot of applications
Sorry? NT has just as strong a memory protection as Unix. What you're saying is just as 'ignorant' as when Linus said that a stray pointer in windows would crash windows. Windows/NT is NOT MacOS/AmigaOS etc. You can provide full memory protection but yet have DOS compatability (eg. VMWare). NT does this in a similar way (DOS is supported under emulation).
Yeah, look at what happened. The entire world is using Microsoft's version of Java (which really doesn't exist, it's just language extensions) and Java is flopping like hell.
I was talking more of video cameras etc... however, those science sensors and stuff (the arms etc are controlled by the VME computer) are most likely interfaced with through the standard parallel and serial ports, not 'fancy' devices. Any 'fancy' devices they may have developed as ISA/PCI cards would more than likely have had device drivers written by them, thus i doubt they would have been as big a problem as poorly written drivers by 3rd parties. So yes, I do doubt they have fancy devices and drivers.
Well, many people around here would probably like to point out NT doesn't have Telnet. But they could have installed a 3rd party telnet program. Aparently the VME is supposed to be controlling the robot arm, but almost any system inbetween could have caused the trouble.
Ofcourse NT can be set to reboot when the kernel crashes. And when setup properly it's unlikely NT will BSOD. I doubt anyone will be playing quake or installing fancy devices/device drivers on the box.
What about BeOS? What about *BSD? Solaris? And a multitude of other viable platforms
BEOS & BSD aren't even twinkles in the sky. Microsoft already write some software for solaris.
Oh fer cryin' out loud! Where have you been, anyway? Do you really thing MS buried Netscape because they wanted to promote Explorer for its own sake? Do you seriously believe that MS tried to trash Java with their own, Win-proprietary extensions simply to promote J++? Do you also believe that MS provided POSIX-complient APIs for Ms-WinNT and then promoted nothing but the Ms-Win32 API for a benevolent reason?
Netscape lost cause they couldn't make a browser that could compete, I've previously pointed out what's wrong with your point of J++. J++ could NEVER take over 'java', since it's not even a different language, it just has some keyword extensions - which other people are now adding to their VM implementations because sun is being such an idiot about things. And why shouldn't Microsoft promote Win32 over Posix? You're the one who is being stupid. I mean what do you expect microsoft to do? Promote Solaris, invite Mcnealy over for tea and biscuits? Gee, Microsoft is being a businesss...ooh lets punish them.
Slashdot Mirror
The problem exists with existing cell phones anyway. Just add an earphone to your combadge if you like.
Windows CE devices, and a few others (like the philips genie cellphones) do voice recognition already.
And voice recognition is GOOD.
If we start building small devices, cell phones the size of a com badge for example, how the heck are we going to communicate with them?
It's only natural to use voice recognition when dialing with a cellphone and other small devices, unless you want to carry around a toothpick.
You know you can do almost all of that (and voice recognition) with some of the Windows CE devices out there now.
But Windows CE is evil(tm).
Doh, forgot to mention where you can get the resource kit.
The full resource kit costs money, but depends and many other utils from the resource kit are now free.
These are for NT4SP4, but depends will also work on Win9x.
Download it here
It's written by Steven Miller at Microosoft. And it does a heck of a lot more than lsit dependencies, it also tells you what functions of the dependent DLLs are used, DLL versions, base addresses etc etc.
It can list dependencies for any valid Win32 module (DLL, EXE, OCX etc).
Quite a useful app, and essential for Windows developers.
The executable is called "depends.exe" which comes with the NT Resource kit (amongst some other really cool utilities - many are equivalents of unix commands).
If you have a secret for avoiding DLL Hell, I'd sure like to know it. ;). Windows 2000 also has 'personal dlls' for apps that need to ensure the DLL version doesn't change.
/dependents switch to list dependencies from the command line.
Yes, I run Windows 2000 with system file protection on
In Windows, well, if you know a way to list all the files that come with MSOffice and all the DLLs it requires, I'd sure like to know.
Yeah, it's called dependency walker, it comes with Visual Studio (with source I believe). I think it comes with the platform SDK too. It lists all DLLs, etc that an app depends on. You can also use "DUMPBIN.EXE" with the
If you can get Windows to tell me the files it's about to uninstall, to check program dependencies before uninstalling, or even to present a uniform uninstallation interface instead of the hodgepodge of hundreds of different uninstall.exe's made by dozens of different companies, well, I'd sure like to know.
It's up to an application to do it's installing uninstalling. However, Windows has (since win95) offered installation APIs which are generally followed "ok" by installtion programs such as installshield. Windows 2000 does offer a cooler extended install API set, allowing apps to 'self heal' when files go missing or get deleted. In Redhat, as long as you use RPMs, you'll be fine, but even then it's still a chore to make sure you have the right dependencies downloaded and installed.
Windows, well, if you know a way to get setup.exe to reveal what files it's going to install where, and what DLLs the installed program needs, I'd sure like to know Fault of InstallShield and windows application makers. Maybe a fault of Microsoft for not enforcing it more (i guess even if they did they'd be sued and again for trying to be a bully).
Now you may rightly argue that grandma doesn't need to know anything about DLLs to install her software, but that's no justification for leaving out the capability entirely. System administrators use Windows too, and all the sysadmins I know would be very happy if it could be possible to have Windows make their lives easier in ways that Linux already is.
If you're an experienced Windows programmer, you should know how to do most of the above. Most microsoft setups (like Windows) consist of cab files which you can list contents of etc.
I remember when Redhat was the focus of all the civil dispute among the linux community. Now Redhat is regarded with pride etc.
:)....and just when i changed from redhat to debian too.
My how times have changed
Don't know what kind of crappy setup you had. But Windows is pretty much the same, set it up and it goes on forever.
The problem is most people don't have longstanding static configurations. Eventually they'll want to change something/add something and that's where Linux is _STILL_ harder.
But you presume that Windows is unstable....so how is it that the games are stable? When it crashes, how do you know it's windows and not blizzard's games.
First, I have top convince my MS-addicted friends that yes, there are such things as *spreadsheets* and *web browsers* for Linux. I find this gap in understanding amazing.
</i>
Yes, but StarOffice5.1 is no where near as advanced as Office 2000 still! Lack of antialising makes documents look horrible and ugly. And well, no need to coment on the web browsers available.
Yeah, surely Linux will fix all her problems. She'll never have to ask you any computer related questions again!
Anyway, the guys at the store thought Linux was a waste of shelf space for awhile at least until the base grew larger. I tried to explain but they were clueless.
</i>
Not, how many people buy Linux games compared to windows games? 0.001%?
Slightly off topic (but here it goes anyway).
:|) and it demonstrated some pretty awesome stuff you could do with client side.
:/).
I've noticed quite a few posts saying that client side is all bad etc etc. Well, I was just reading an msdn mag article today (yes microsoft
Essentially, what it was doing was a client side web app inside IE would query a SQL server over the internet (SQL Server supports queries over HTTP now) and request SQL to send the result as XML. What it queried was vector data for New York city. It would then transform this XML data returned by SQL Server using XSL into VML, then use IE5's VML capabilities to render the VML on the page, and voila, a nice map of new york, all generated DYNAMICALLY over the internet, and just about all client side. The only thing the server had to do was send the database records over as XML (all inbuilt into SQL & IIS).
Sounds a bit like a sales pitch I know, but if that's not COOOOOOL, I don't know what is. It's certainly one of the most impressive demonstrations of SQL+IIS+XML+IE5 together. Microsoft thru all it's flaws can certainly grab onto a technology (like HTML/XML/HTTP, and the Internet) and integrate it into all their products pretty consistantly.
This kind of stuff is the stuff that makes me droool, and really is being used on LANs out there now days, it's a bit too 'new' to be used live on the internet (considering how far behind netscape is
If you want to check it out, here's the URL to the article and source.
Here
IE5 is getting there, if you look under [Tools Internet Options] -> [Security] -> [Custom Level] -> [Microsof VM] -> [Custom] -> [Java Custom Settings]
Then there's some pretty funky stuff you can do with twiddling what java can and can not do. Can't do everything you want *yet*.
However, you can always write IE5 plugins to intercept and override the popups and stuff.
Yeah, if your filesystem is 32bit.
If you give NT programming a try, you'll notice can read files using 64bit pointers. Notice Win32 functions like GetFileSize etc work with 64bit numbers.
GetFileSize as an example, returns the low order dword or the filesize, and takes in a dword pointer which it fills with the high order dword.
A bit yucky, but makes it so 32bit users can use ignore the highword parameter (use NULL).
"Technologists often forget the general user," Torvalds said. "Technology is only as good as the user experience. That is something that technology groups very often forget."
</i>
Geee, sounds a bit like something Bill Gates and Microsoft have been saying themselves for years. Why do you think they're so successful developer and user wise? And why they have so much public support.
It's not suprising now that Linux has got corporate support that Linus starts leaning in different directions.
And it's nice to know that he now admits NT 'trounced' Linux then. I remember Linus being rather angry about those tests, going on about Marketing, and how Microsoft would do anything possible to survive.
yes :P
:)....and it doesn't have a 2GB filesize limit like Ext2/HPFS/Fat etc
NTFS uses 64bit descriptors, so supports up to 16EB (ExaByte) volumes
Yes, but I was defending NT's memory protection :).
I got the impression that it was thought NT didn't have very good memory protection so as to keep DOS compatability.
There's also nothing stopping Microsoft from emulating standard hardware and marshalling it to the HAL (like VMWare does) except that it's not considered as important. I don't think Microsoft do the DOS emulation for NT tho, they got the guys to do SoftPC to do it.
They can't implement strong memory protection a la NT without breaking a lot of applications
Sorry? NT has just as strong a memory protection as Unix.
What you're saying is just as 'ignorant' as when Linus said that a stray pointer in windows would crash windows. Windows/NT is NOT MacOS/AmigaOS etc.
You can provide full memory protection but yet have DOS compatability (eg. VMWare). NT does this in a similar way (DOS is supported under emulation).
Yeah, look at what happened. The entire world is using Microsoft's version of Java (which really doesn't exist, it's just language extensions) and Java is flopping like hell.
Oh wait..
I was talking more of video cameras etc ...
however, those science sensors and stuff (the arms etc are controlled by the VME computer) are most likely interfaced with through the standard parallel and serial ports, not 'fancy' devices. Any 'fancy' devices they may have developed as ISA/PCI cards would more than likely have had device drivers written by them, thus i doubt they would have been as big a problem as poorly written drivers by 3rd parties.
So yes, I do doubt they have fancy devices and drivers.
Well, many people around here would probably like to point out NT doesn't have Telnet. But they could have installed a 3rd party telnet program.
Aparently the VME is supposed to be controlling the robot arm, but almost any system inbetween could have caused the trouble.
Ofcourse NT can be set to reboot when the kernel crashes. And when setup properly it's unlikely NT will BSOD. I doubt anyone will be playing quake or installing fancy devices/device drivers on the box.
Everyone had better setup marches on congress and turn this into a real election issue.
Al Gore: "Seeing as I fathered Linus Torvalds..."
What about BeOS? What about *BSD? Solaris? And a multitude of other viable platforms
BEOS & BSD aren't even twinkles in the sky. Microsoft already write some software for solaris.
Oh fer cryin' out loud! Where have you been, anyway? Do you really thing MS buried Netscape because they wanted to promote Explorer for its own sake? Do you seriously believe that MS tried to trash Java with their own, Win-proprietary extensions simply to promote J++? Do you also believe that MS provided POSIX-complient APIs for Ms-WinNT and then promoted nothing but the Ms-Win32 API for a benevolent reason?
Netscape lost cause they couldn't make a browser that could compete, I've previously pointed out what's wrong with your point of J++. J++ could NEVER take over 'java', since it's not even a different language, it just has some keyword extensions - which other people are now adding to their VM implementations because sun is being such an idiot about things.
And why shouldn't Microsoft promote Win32 over Posix?
You're the one who is being stupid. I mean what do you expect microsoft to do? Promote Solaris, invite Mcnealy over for tea and biscuits?
Gee, Microsoft is being a businesss...ooh lets punish them.