I'm a Dem and I couldn't image the Democratic politicians I know or met supporting something that's so blatantly a corporate giveaway IF they understood it.
Then maybe you should check out their voting history? I'll bet you a dollar that that will wake you up from your happy little fantasy world. Hollywood and the music industry are the main big corps who own the Democrats. Big oil, the weapons industry, and religious extremists own the Republican party which is why the Republicans are demonstrably so much worse on any sort of morality/integrity/freedom issues as their owners are dependent on war and oppression. That's quite obviously true, but don't let that simple fact delude you into thinking that makes the Democrats anything but scum* either.
* Russ Feingold excepted as he's the only member of congress with a scrap of integrity or patriotism left.
I have fun with it. If you tried it out, and it wasn't totally slow and glitchy for you and you didn't like it, then you would probably still think it sucks. If the mass of bugs it shipped with was the major reason you think it sucks, then a lot of those have been fixed.
You know, I haven't played a 40 hour game in years and thus haven't paid $50 bucks for a 40 hour game in those years. You know why? Because I work most of the day and rarely want to come home and level up and buy better armor and basically waste 35 hours on filler gameplay so I could get to the next part of the story.
Try Civilization IV if you're into that sort of game. I've gotten far more than 40 hours of fun out of that one...well after they patched the hell out of it;-)
And by "all the settings", you mean especially the ones in the text file you have to edit by hand. Turning all the settings available from the GUI up it still ran fine on a 6800GT. It wasn't until somebody pointed out the other settings that I managed to bring my system to a crawl.
Well, talking to people in sweden, it seems more that the supporters are whiny children who want stuff for free than anything else. They appreciate some of the works, yet don't want to pay for supporting a "corrupt" system. Most pirate party members don't have the guts to support actual means of change like boycotts, and instead will continue keeping Hollywood relevant through propogating their memes, all the while claiming to be sticking it to the man. Childish hypocrites, the lot of them.
Well, not having talked with people in Sweden in a number of years, I have no worthwhile opinion on all of that. The extreme sillyness of that particular juxtaposition above was all that set off my ludicrousometer;-)
Do you honestly mean that you completely believe in the destruction of the US government and its replacement with a fascist theocracy?
I'm quite serious. Given that all the old Republican beliefs like small government, responsibility (both fiscal and personal) are the primary things under attack by the current Republican party you certainly can't mean anything like that.
Fascism and theocracy are the only things left that the Republicans stand for, so what, exactly is there in those known brutally evil philosophies that you find appealing? I certainly hope you're not stupid enough to think that if you keep licking their boots that you'll get anything but shit in your mouth.
Nazism was not "Christian," and you won't be able to find any evidence of that (aside from some website run by such as yourself, making yet more undocumented claims to that effect).
You mean no evidence other than every single relevant fact? Are you off your meds, or do you just know nothing whatsoever about the subject and just felt like lying? Extremist religiousness is a critical part of fascism. Christianity just happened to be the common religion chosen by the Italian and German fascists just as it has been chosen by the current fascist administration of America.
some examples pulled from this website which I do not run and which lists numerous sources for the facts that prove you to be either hideously ignorant or a liar:
In 1929 Mussolini signed the Lateran Treaty with Pope Pius XI. This established Catholicism as the official religion of the State, gave the Pope increased political powers, gave papal sovereignty to Vatican City, ensured that the Catholic religion would be taught in all schools, compensated the Pope with $90 million for the loss of papal property since 1870, and cemented broad Catholic support for Mussolini.
In Hitler's 1920 NSDAP 25 point agenda, point number 24:
We demand freedom for all religious denominations in the State, provided they do not threaten its existence and do not offend the moral feelings of the German race.
The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not commit itself to any particular denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health only from within on the basis of the principle: The common interest before self-interest.
Life comes from God and returns to God. All life and all races follow God's ordinances. No people and no race can ignore them. We want the German youth to again recognize the religious nature of life. They must realize that God wants the individual as well as the whole people, and that they lose contact with life when they lose contact with God! God and nation are the two foundations of the life of the individual and the community. We want no shallow and superficial piety, rather a deep faith that God guides the world, that he controls it, and a consciousness of the relationship between God and each individual, and between God and the live of the people and the fatherland. The National Socialist state will promote such a deeply religious educational system. We want parents to support and strengthen this by honesty and by good example.
There are so many other examples that it is extremely hard to believe that you could have done any research whatsoever into the subject before spouting that ignorant nonsense. Try actually using your brain once in a while, it'll make the world a better place for everybody.
A topologist is someone who doesn't know whether to dip their doughnut into their coffee mug, or vice versa...
I always preferred: "A topologist is someone who doesn't know the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground, but who does know the difference between their ass and two holes in the ground".
But that will lead to problems for the commoditizers as well. What happens if wage rates (adjusted for productivity) converge across the globe?
Then they will work to commoditize human rights at the lowest common denominator. i.e. they will basically revert us back to feudalism and/or slave labor. Murder a few democratically elected leaders and install some jackbooted thugs and it's done. Heck, this is the specialty of the CIA.
You know, I absolutely, 100% remember reading a statement like that on that website very shortly after 9/11 - and the paper was from the mid-to-late 90s. I distinctly remember emailing people about it at the time, it was such a shocker even for my own jaded ass.
The particular paper I'm linking the pdf from that same site (your googlefu could use some improvement. I got it on the first hit with this search: "site: www.newamericancentury.org would take pearl harbor iraq") lists its own publication date as September 2000. Page 63 of 90 has the actual pearl harbor reference.
The fact that it's still up on their website (assuming it's the same, I haven't gone that deep;-) is proof of their hubris.
The fact that they've gotten away with it this far let alone the fact that they, most likely, will continue to do so is proof of nothing besides the cowardice of the American people.
Funniest and most telling response to my sig EVAR Be a patriot: Murder a Republican.
Ah. The legendary tolerance of the left. Nice.
Ah. The legendary lack of humor of the right. Nice.
Ah, the old, tired, but oh so inevitable demonstration of the deep seated fundamental flaw in the groundbreaking and for the most part brilliantly designed plan of the original American patriots provided for you entertainment by the foul spawn of that one tragic mistake.
To me, the saddest part of the whole thing is that while the Founding Fathers made, in our country, the jewel on the crown of Liberalism; we are now saddled with two delusional factions who are both involved in a no holds barred, no trick too dirty, no evil too bad to accept bribes to implement war on the very philosophy upon which we were once upon a time the crown jewel of.
To you shitbag ignorant as fuck RepugnatDouchebags: I'm talking Classical Liberalism. "We hold these truths to be self evident: That all men are created equal". The evil shit you're always screeching about, you know.
To you asshat DemoRepugnants: I'm talking Classical Liberalism. "We hold these truths to be self evident: That all men are created equal". The shit you're always trying to coopt.
On the contrary, we know none of these to be facts. We know that Saddam tried to assasinate Bush v1 and that Bush v2 was pissed about that, but we "know" the later only by heresay.
I provided you a link to the web page where the members of this administration stated exactly those facts in no uncertain terms. Go read the website. Then look at whose website it is. Don't say something isn't a fact after I present the proof right to you. It lowers you.
The idea that Bush consciously thought that the only way he could get Saddam would be as a response to a "Pearl Harbor" style attack, is quite honestly insane in nature and...
The idea that you are an American but do not care enough about your responsibilities to have even read the policy papers that the members of the current administration put out back in 1999 stating exactly what I just said is, unfortunately, not insane. It's all too common among Americans these days.
it suggests that you believe 9/11 was not caused by Muslim extremists, but rather was a staged event.
No, it does nothing of the sort. Reread what I said. I was very careful to state verified *facts*. All these facts demonstrate is motive on the part of the administration. Nowhere did I implicate the administration in anything except *using* 9/11 as an excuse to carry out what they had planned in the event of such an attack. The facts arew what they are. The implication is pretty iron clad as well as they stated that they wanted to do exactly what they have done in that event.
Now, clearly the *facts* do suggest (this is the suggestion you mentioned above. You misinterpreted it as if I said it which clearly isn't true) the perfectly reasonable (you automatically came to it yourself once you were made aware of the relevant facts.) question as to whether there was anything else besides incompetence involved in the success of the attacks, but I don't have the answer to that.
These claims have always baffled my mind and makes me feel like everyone who wasn't there to witness the planes hitting those buildings or ditching into oblivion at 600 mph in a field in Pennsylvania merely saw 9/11 as a special TV featured event.
Then you go from making up the idea that I believe something different than what I directly and clearly stated to pretending that I'm claiming that the attacks never really happened.
This is the level of discourse in this country right now. Go back reread the conversation and look at how we went from me making a statement of a trivially verified fact which you don't even give enough of a shit about your own government to verify to you claiming that I'm claiming that the 9/11 attacks never happened.
Complete bullshit, Dude.
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I did. You say it's patriotic to kill a fellow American based on their political affiliation.
I said nothing at all like that. Political affiliation is not even vaguely relevant to the issue. It's direct acts of aggression taken against my country, my constitution and my fellow citizens that is the issue.
If the Republicans give up fascism and give up theocracy as their entire platform, then the issue would go away. They declared all out war on freedom. They declared all out war on the constitution. They declared all out war on integrity.
These are specific actions. That it is a political group that has done this does not in any way indicate that the political affiliation is the problem. It's the actions that count. They speak far louder than words.
Try actually making sense next time rather than mindlessly ranting about something completely divorced from reality.
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1.) You obviously do not understand what a murder/death camp is.
No, I quite obviously do. It's a camp where people are tortured and murdered. This is what we are doing right now in these places. Or we ship them off to third parties to do it for us. Your best defense is "we're still not as bad as Hitler". Does the insanity of the crap you spew ever even register with you?
2.) If you think it unreasonable to monitor calls made to or from a suspected terrorist, you need to drop the pipe.
Since you think it's unreasonable to have any sort of oversight whatsoever to allow a reasonable person to believe that this has anything at all to do with terrorism, it's clearly you who needs to stop smoking crack.
3.) You need to consult the UN security council resolutions of late 2002 and early 2003. The action was clearly legal from an international perspective, and the US Congress overwhelmingly authorized the action based on the same intel as the administration. No matter how many times you repeat the illegality theme, it does not make it true.
No matter how many times you choose to ignore all of the relevant facts like falsified documents, lies and the treasonous outing of a CIA operative in revenge for pointing out the blatant lies of the administrastion it won't make the tooth fairy real.
You've got your worldview upside down, dude. It's the islamofascist terrorists who are the totalitarians. Just ask the women of Afghanistan...
The islamofascists are totalitarians. The Christofascists are also totalitarians. Just ask the gays in America. Your delusion is that there is magically 2 sides, one magically always right and one magically always wrong. That's ignorant, simplistic, and childish.
But you need to understand something: We are at WAR.
No, you need to understand something. We are not at war. It is not possible to be at war with an abstract concept.
What we have is a situation where the government is making up an eternal war in order to take away our liberties. Take a look at all of human history. Every single time a situation anything like this has happened, there were people like you who were proven wrong to the torture and death of millions.
You clearly aren't using yours so don't care about them in the least. You also don't care in the least about those of anybody else.
Please don't profane this country by claiming you love it when you are indifferent at best. It really disgusts those of us who actually do love it. You sure as hell aren't willing to die for it. You are actively defending the people attacking it for Christ's sake. Save the Orwellian doublethinking nonsense.
If you actually did love this country and what it stands for you would not be complacent about an all out assault on exactly what it stands for. That's really a pretty obvious statement and clearly true by definition. You really should think through these things yourself.
They want to know when, where and how the next attack on our country is going to take place.
Hope this helps. I pointed out the fundamental flaw in your thought process. Are you truly so deeply naive as to think that this is all the want to know?
If you are, think this one through because it is extremely important and it is far and away your single most important responsibility to get these kinds of things right. Take what you know of human history and human nature. Add a dash of what you know about politicians in general and this recent crop in particular. Toss in the knowledge you have about the corrupting influence of power.
Now, after that, please go back and revise your thinking on this issue.
There are millions of people who will never know freedom if you don't start taking your responsibility as a citizen seriously.
America thinks they have some moral obligation to police the world, since when they didn't Hitler came to power. There is a collective guilt trip about not getting into WW2 earlier, and this leads to poor foreign policy.
Ummmmm.... No.
Most Americans were indeed isolationist at the time. You left out a fairly large and extremely powerful group though. Most of the Industrialists, the wealthy elite and the like (The Republican base in other words) supported Hitler wholeheartedly. Some like Henry Ford were gung ho supporters of the holocaust as well, although cetainly not all. Others like our current president's grandfather went as far as to actively support the Nazi regime while we were at war with them. It's critical to keep in mind that while horrendous the holocaust was not the only thing wrong with the fascists. The holocaust certainly had nothing to do with why we went to war with them.
So after Roosevely manipulated us into WW2 he put himself on the receiving end of the undying hatred of the Republicans since after that we were forced to go to war against the people that they most admired.
So now that they have managed to completely demonize anything with a hint of leftism and even moderate right wingers like the Democrats bear the brunt of their screeching mindless hatred. So it took them some time, but at long last they won what they were striving for.
So pretending that they are doing this becasue they feel bad about not acting against Hitler sooner shows a total lack of understanding of the history of these people as well as a complete lack of understanding of their reasoning.
I'd hate to break it to you, but he's not a criminal. A weak president perhaps, but not a criminal.
Sorry, but treason is a crime no matter what else you want to believe.
Because anyone who disagrees with your personal beliefs must be an idiot. Isn't that the start of facist thinking? Perhaps you are heading twards facism, while the US is heading twards foriegn policy bankrupcy.
If you disagree that the sky is blue preferring to say that it's really red, then you aren't an idiot because you disagree with me, you're an idiot due to demonstrated idiocy.
This is my $0.02 about why I do not subscribe to the belief that Bush intentionally mislead Congress and the American public. If blame is to be placed on anyone for the war, it should be on the NSA, CIA and Executive/Congressional branches of the government for crippling our ability to gather reliable intelligence in the field.
You make some very good, well presented points, but you left several major critical facts out of your analysis.
We know for a fact that one of if not the most important goals of this administration since before they even got into office was starting a war with Iraq. We know for a fact that they knew the American people wouldn't go for it. We know for a fact that they knew that it would require a "Pearl Harbor" level event to convince the American people to back the invasion. We know for a fact that once said event happened that they immediately began agitating to attack Iraq even though there is no evidence of their involvement. We know for a fact that they intentionally misled people in an attempt to make them think Iraq was responsible for 9/11..
Add in the fact that the CIA specifically told them not to run with the known bad information that they had and they intentionally ignored it in order to make out Saddam to be a big threat and it's obvious that the situation is not even anywhere near as unclear as your argument would indicate.
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You should seek treatment, Darby, for you are a very sick person.
I understand that you desperately need to believe that since your entire deluded world view depends on that being true, but it just isn't true.
Think through what exactly it is that you just called "sick and in need of treatment".
I am a patriotic American who loves my country and what it stands for. I support the death of people who are actively engaged in the destruction of my country, my constitution and my liberty for the defense of myself, my friends, my family and my fellow citizens.
To sane people, this is known as patriotism, love of liberty and freedom and the like.
You however, are such a twisted person that to you these things; which are considered by most to be examples of some of the best parts of human nature, are "sick and in need of treatment". Is it any surprise that people like you with such a warped and evil view of reality elected the most corrupt administration and congress in our entire history and still have the audacity to defend them because you find it easier to deny reality than to take any responsibility for your own actions?
Obviously you think I'm sick because I stand up for what is good right and decent.
You have a blind hatred of these things so you try to pretend that everyone else is sick and you're just fine. It's sad, but there's not much they can do with sociopaths so I won't bother recommending that you seek help.
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1.) Show me a murder camp.
Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the CIA torture/death camps all over third world shitholes. Of course we can't forget the School of the Americas which was Reagan's terrorist murderer training camp. You really are totally out of touch with reality, aren't you? This is the major headline news of our day, Sparky. Maybe you should support your country over your party for once and do your duty as a citizen. It's called being informed.
2.) You didn't seem to go bonkers when Echelon was revealed under a Donkey, which, if reports are correct, was a much more intrusive system.
Typical ignorant Repug idiocy. Of course I went bonkers over that. Why would I as a patriotic American give a shit which party did it? That's you and your sort who treasonously support the party of fascist theocracy against your country and your constitution and attack the "other party" blindly with no sense of integrity, shame or decency.
I ain't like you. I support freedom and liberty. Not fascism regardless of which party does it. You're a typical Republican. You desperately want simple easy black/white answers and so have a tremendously hard time dealing with reality which isn't that way.
3.) You want (maybe need) to believe they lied, the entirety of truth won't be known for some time, and is likely much more innocuous than you'd like
No, I desperately wish it wasn't true, but when every single fact backs that up and nothing at all backs up your delusional idea then a person with any integrity whatsoever is forced into faqcing the truth.
People with no integrity whatsoever, like yourself and the rest of the Republicans need to hold on to the lie because facing up to what they've allowed and supported would involve personal responsibility which as we all know is anethema to Republicans.
In the mean time, why don't you do your bleeding heart right and support the tens of millions of people who now have the right to determine their own destiny.
Because I'm not a bleeding heart, and I'm smart enough to know that when you wage an illegal war and then tell your victims that they're free at gunpoint that that isn't freedom. You clearly despise freedom so have no understanding of it. You couldn't be a Republican otherwise.
Always the Chomsky following butthole bitching about human rights here, and human rights there.
Never read and Chomsky. You really should try just once to actually use your brain. It might be painful, but you might find that you are actually able to address reality rather than spouting out the same old tired Republican hate points. They don't apply and you look stupid when you spout them in the wrong places.
But as soon as somebody goes and does something that liberates 50 million people from totalitarianism, you bitch and moan and attack. It's pathetic.
Yes, the Republicans install totalitarian leaders and then want praise when they are no longer convenient and so they make up lies in order to go through the same old routine again.
Sorry Sparky. I have integrity. You are most likely incapable of understanding that concept. You clearly despise it as you demonstrated so eloquently in your inane ignorant propaganda post.
If you really want to live in a fascist theocracy that badly, why don't you move to Saudi Arabia. They're your kind of people. Since you are too much of a coward to live in a free country, move to one that suits you rather than destroying mine. I'm sick to death of you cowardly lying traitors.
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Enough said.
Indeed it is. It sums up what is currently the single most patriotic act it is possible for a person to engage in. Glad you agree.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm a Dem and I couldn't image the Democratic politicians I know or met supporting something that's so blatantly a corporate giveaway IF they understood it.
Then maybe you should check out their voting history? I'll bet you a dollar that that will wake you up from your happy little fantasy world. Hollywood and the music industry are the main big corps who own the Democrats.
Big oil, the weapons industry, and religious extremists own the Republican party which is why the Republicans are demonstrably so much worse on any sort of morality/integrity/freedom issues as their owners are dependent on war and oppression.
That's quite obviously true, but don't let that simple fact delude you into thinking that makes the Democrats anything but scum* either.
* Russ Feingold excepted as he's the only member of congress with a scrap of integrity or patriotism left.
Does it not suck now?
;-)
Tough question
I have fun with it. If you tried it out, and it wasn't totally slow and glitchy for you and you didn't like it, then you would probably still think it sucks. If the mass of bugs it shipped with was the major reason you think it sucks, then a lot of those have been fixed.
You know, I haven't played a 40 hour game in years and thus haven't paid $50 bucks for a 40 hour game in those years. You know why? Because I work most of the day and rarely want to come home and level up and buy better armor and basically waste 35 hours on filler gameplay so I could get to the next part of the story.
;-)
Try Civilization IV if you're into that sort of game. I've gotten far more than 40 hours of fun out of that one...well after they patched the hell out of it
Oblivion with all the settings on high
And by "all the settings", you mean especially the ones in the text file you have to edit by hand. Turning all the settings available from the GUI up it still ran fine on a 6800GT. It wasn't until somebody pointed out the other settings that I managed to bring my system to a crawl.
Well, talking to people in sweden, it seems more that the supporters are whiny children who want stuff for free than anything else. They appreciate some of the works, yet don't want to pay for supporting a "corrupt" system. Most pirate party members don't have the guts to support actual means of change like boycotts, and instead will continue keeping Hollywood relevant through propogating their memes, all the while claiming to be sticking it to the man. Childish hypocrites, the lot of them.
Well, not having talked with people in Sweden in a number of years, I have no worthwhile opinion on all of that.
The extreme sillyness of that particular juxtaposition above was all that set off my ludicrousometer
Even though I'm a staunch, evil Republican,
I'm curious what you actually mean by this.
Do you honestly mean that you completely believe in the destruction of the US government and its replacement with a fascist theocracy?
I'm quite serious. Given that all the old Republican beliefs like small government, responsibility (both fiscal and personal) are the primary things under attack by the current Republican party you certainly can't mean anything like that.
Fascism and theocracy are the only things left that the Republicans stand for, so what, exactly is there in those known brutally evil philosophies that you find appealing?
I certainly hope you're not stupid enough to think that if you keep licking their boots that you'll get anything but shit in your mouth.
Nazism was not "Christian," and you won't be able to find any evidence of that (aside from some website run by such as yourself, making yet more undocumented claims to that effect).
You mean no evidence other than every single relevant fact? Are you off your meds, or do you just know nothing whatsoever about the subject and just felt like lying?
Extremist religiousness is a critical part of fascism. Christianity just happened to be the common religion chosen by the Italian and German fascists just as it has been chosen by the current fascist administration of America.
some examples pulled from this website which I do not run and which lists numerous sources for the facts that prove you to be either hideously ignorant or a liar:
In 1929 Mussolini signed the Lateran Treaty with Pope Pius XI. This established Catholicism as the official religion of the State, gave the Pope increased political powers, gave papal sovereignty to Vatican City, ensured that the Catholic religion would be taught in all schools, compensated the Pope with $90 million for the loss of papal property since 1870, and cemented broad Catholic support for Mussolini.
In Hitler's 1920 NSDAP 25 point agenda, point number 24:
We demand freedom for all religious denominations in the State, provided they do not threaten its existence and do not offend the moral feelings of the German race.
The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not commit itself to any particular denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health only from within on the basis of the principle: The common interest before self-interest.
What was ultimately important in Germany was a belief in God, whatever form that belief took, as this 1937 article on education, Educational Principles of the New Germany; What Schools and Parents Need to Know About the Goals of National Socialist Education, states:
Life comes from God and returns to God. All life and all races follow God's ordinances. No people and no race can ignore them. We want the German youth to again recognize the religious nature of life. They must realize that God wants the individual as well as the whole people, and that they lose contact with life when they lose contact with God! God and nation are the two foundations of the life of the individual and the community. We want no shallow and superficial piety, rather a deep faith that God guides the world, that he controls it, and a consciousness of the relationship between God and each individual, and between God and the live of the people and the fatherland. The National Socialist state will promote such a deeply religious educational system. We want parents to support and strengthen this by honesty and by good example.
There are so many other examples that it is extremely hard to believe that you could have done any research whatsoever into the subject before spouting that ignorant nonsense. Try actually using your brain once in a while, it'll make the world a better place for everybody.
A topologist is someone who doesn't know whether to dip their doughnut into their coffee mug, or vice versa...
I always preferred: "A topologist is someone who doesn't know the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground, but who does know the difference between their ass and two holes in the ground".
But that will lead to problems for the commoditizers as well. What happens if wage rates (adjusted for productivity) converge across the globe?
Then they will work to commoditize human rights at the lowest common denominator. i.e. they will basically revert us back to feudalism and/or slave labor.
Murder a few democratically elected leaders and install some jackbooted thugs and it's done.
Heck, this is the specialty of the CIA.
In a world where the content producers are at the mercy of the consumers with regards to whether or not the consumers elect to pay for the content,
You misspelled "In a free market". HTH
I don't see anything about freedom. I see a lot of stuff about not wanting to bow to the US,
Wow, it's right there staring you in the face. Or, do you have some bizarre definition of freedom?
Wanna swap places? I hate it here. :/
So the Møøse bites really are that bad, huh?
You know, I absolutely, 100% remember reading a statement like that on that website very shortly after 9/11 - and the paper was from the mid-to-late 90s. I distinctly remember emailing people about it at the time, it was such a shocker even for my own jaded ass.
The particular paper I'm linking the pdf from that same site (your googlefu could use some improvement. I got it on the first hit with this search: "site: www.newamericancentury.org would take pearl harbor iraq") lists its own publication date as September 2000. Page 63 of 90 has the actual pearl harbor reference.
The fact that it's still up on their website (assuming it's the same, I haven't gone that deep
The fact that they've gotten away with it this far let alone the fact that they, most likely, will continue to do so is proof of nothing besides the cowardice of the American people.
Funniest and most telling response to my sig EVAR
Be a patriot: Murder a Republican.
Ah. The legendary tolerance of the left. Nice.
Ah. The legendary lack of humor of the right. Nice.
Ah, the old, tired, but oh so inevitable demonstration of the deep seated fundamental flaw in the groundbreaking and for the most part brilliantly designed plan of the original American patriots provided for you entertainment by the foul spawn of that one tragic mistake.
To me, the saddest part of the whole thing is that while the Founding Fathers made, in our country, the jewel on the crown of Liberalism; we are now saddled with two delusional factions who are both involved in a no holds barred, no trick too dirty, no evil too bad to accept bribes to implement war on the very philosophy upon which we were once upon a time the crown jewel of.
To you shitbag ignorant as fuck RepugnatDouchebags: I'm talking Classical Liberalism. "We hold these truths to be self evident: That all men are created equal". The evil shit you're always screeching about, you know.
To you asshat DemoRepugnants: I'm talking Classical Liberalism. "We hold these truths to be self evident: That all men are created equal". The shit you're always trying to coopt.
The left and the right are defined by their opposition to individual freedom and historical American Values you idiotic ACs.
On the contrary, we know none of these to be facts. We know that Saddam tried to assasinate Bush v1 and that Bush v2 was pissed about that, but we "know" the later only by heresay.
I provided you a link to the web page where the members of this administration stated exactly those facts in no uncertain terms. Go read the website. Then look at whose website it is. Don't say something isn't a fact after I present the proof right to you. It lowers you.
The idea that Bush consciously thought that the only way he could get Saddam would be as a response to a "Pearl Harbor" style attack, is quite honestly insane in nature and...
The idea that you are an American but do not care enough about your responsibilities to have even read the policy papers that the members of the current administration put out back in 1999 stating exactly what I just said is, unfortunately, not insane. It's all too common among Americans these days.
it suggests that you believe 9/11 was not caused by Muslim extremists, but rather was a staged event.
No, it does nothing of the sort. Reread what I said. I was very careful to state verified *facts*. All these facts demonstrate is motive on the part of the administration. Nowhere did I implicate the administration in anything except *using* 9/11 as an excuse to carry out what they had planned in the event of such an attack.
The facts arew what they are. The implication is pretty iron clad as well as they stated that they wanted to do exactly what they have done in that event.
Now, clearly the *facts* do suggest (this is the suggestion you mentioned above. You misinterpreted it as if I said it which clearly isn't true) the perfectly reasonable (you automatically came to it yourself once you were made aware of the relevant facts.) question as to whether there was anything else besides incompetence involved in the success of the attacks, but I don't have the answer to that.
These claims have always baffled my mind and makes me feel like everyone who wasn't there to witness the planes hitting those buildings or ditching into oblivion at 600 mph in a field in Pennsylvania merely saw 9/11 as a special TV featured event.
Then you go from making up the idea that I believe something different than what I directly and clearly stated to pretending that I'm claiming that the attacks never really happened.
This is the level of discourse in this country right now. Go back reread the conversation and look at how we went from me making a statement of a trivially verified fact which you don't even give enough of a shit about your own government to verify to you claiming that I'm claiming that the 9/11 attacks never happened.
Complete bullshit, Dude.
I did. You say it's patriotic to kill a fellow American based on their political affiliation.
I said nothing at all like that.
Political affiliation is not even vaguely relevant to the issue.
It's direct acts of aggression taken against my country, my constitution and my fellow citizens that is the issue.
If the Republicans give up fascism and give up theocracy as their entire platform, then the issue would go away.
They declared all out war on freedom. They declared all out war on the constitution. They declared all out war on integrity.
These are specific actions. That it is a political group that has done this does not in any way indicate that the political affiliation is the problem. It's the actions that count. They speak far louder than words.
Try actually making sense next time rather than mindlessly ranting about something completely divorced from reality.
1.) You obviously do not understand what a murder/death camp is.
No, I quite obviously do. It's a camp where people are tortured and murdered. This is what we are doing right now in these places. Or we ship them off to third parties to do it for us.
Your best defense is "we're still not as bad as Hitler". Does the insanity of the crap you spew ever even register with you?
2.) If you think it unreasonable to monitor calls made to or from a suspected terrorist, you need to drop the pipe.
Since you think it's unreasonable to have any sort of oversight whatsoever to allow a reasonable person to believe that this has anything at all to do with terrorism, it's clearly you who needs to stop smoking crack.
3.) You need to consult the UN security council resolutions of late 2002 and early 2003. The action was clearly legal from an international perspective, and the US Congress overwhelmingly authorized the action based on the same intel as the administration. No matter how many times you repeat the illegality theme, it does not make it true.
No matter how many times you choose to ignore all of the relevant facts like falsified documents, lies and the treasonous outing of a CIA operative in revenge for pointing out the blatant lies of the administrastion it won't make the tooth fairy real.
You've got your worldview upside down, dude. It's the islamofascist terrorists who are the totalitarians. Just ask the women of Afghanistan...
The islamofascists are totalitarians. The Christofascists are also totalitarians. Just ask the gays in America.
Your delusion is that there is magically 2 sides, one magically always right and one magically always wrong. That's ignorant, simplistic, and childish.
But you need to understand something: We are at WAR.
No, you need to understand something. We are not at war. It is not possible to be at war with an abstract concept.
What we have is a situation where the government is making up an eternal war in order to take away our liberties. Take a look at all of human history. Every single time a situation anything like this has happened, there were people like you who were proven wrong to the torture and death of millions.
You clearly aren't using yours so don't care about them in the least. You also don't care in the least about those of anybody else.
Please don't profane this country by claiming you love it when you are indifferent at best. It really disgusts those of us who actually do love it. You sure as hell aren't willing to die for it. You are actively defending the people attacking it for Christ's sake. Save the Orwellian doublethinking nonsense.
If you actually did love this country and what it stands for you would not be complacent about an all out assault on exactly what it stands for. That's really a pretty obvious statement and clearly true by definition. You really should think through these things yourself.
They want to know when, where and how the next attack on our country is going to take place.
Hope this helps. I pointed out the fundamental flaw in your thought process.
Are you truly so deeply naive as to think that this is all the want to know?
If you are, think this one through because it is extremely important and it is far and away your single most important responsibility to get these kinds of things right.
Take what you know of human history and human nature. Add a dash of what you know about politicians in general and this recent crop in particular.
Toss in the knowledge you have about the corrupting influence of power.
Now, after that, please go back and revise your thinking on this issue.
There are millions of people who will never know freedom if you don't start taking your responsibility as a citizen seriously.
Although, we're there at the invitation / permission of the local countries.
Which are some of the most brutal dictatorships in the world today which we're there to help prop up. Don't ever forget that simple fact.
America thinks they have some moral obligation to police the world, since when they didn't Hitler came to power. There is a collective guilt trip about not getting into WW2 earlier, and this leads to poor foreign policy.
Ummmmm.... No.
Most Americans were indeed isolationist at the time. You left out a fairly large and extremely powerful group though. Most of the Industrialists, the wealthy elite and the like (The Republican base in other words) supported Hitler wholeheartedly. Some like Henry Ford were gung ho supporters of the holocaust as well, although cetainly not all. Others like our current president's grandfather went as far as to actively support the Nazi regime while we were at war with them. It's critical to keep in mind that while horrendous the holocaust was not the only thing wrong with the fascists. The holocaust certainly had nothing to do with why we went to war with them.
So after Roosevely manipulated us into WW2 he put himself on the receiving end of the undying hatred of the Republicans since after that we were forced to go to war against the people that they most admired.
So now that they have managed to completely demonize anything with a hint of leftism and even moderate right wingers like the Democrats bear the brunt of their screeching mindless hatred. So it took them some time, but at long last they won what they were striving for.
So pretending that they are doing this becasue they feel bad about not acting against Hitler sooner shows a total lack of understanding of the history of these people as well as a complete lack of understanding of their reasoning.
I'd hate to break it to you, but he's not a criminal. A weak president perhaps, but not a criminal.
Sorry, but treason is a crime no matter what else you want to believe.
Because anyone who disagrees with your personal beliefs must be an idiot. Isn't that the start of facist thinking? Perhaps you are heading twards facism, while the US is heading twards foriegn policy bankrupcy.
If you disagree that the sky is blue preferring to say that it's really red, then you aren't an idiot because you disagree with me, you're an idiot due to demonstrated idiocy.
This is my $0.02 about why I do not subscribe to the belief that Bush intentionally mislead Congress and the American public. If blame is to be placed on anyone for the war, it should be on the NSA, CIA and Executive/Congressional branches of the government for crippling our ability to gather reliable intelligence in the field.
You make some very good, well presented points, but you left several major critical facts out of your analysis.
We know for a fact that one of if not the most important goals of this administration since before they even got into office was starting a war with Iraq. We know for a fact that they knew the American people wouldn't go for it. We know for a fact that they knew that it would require a "Pearl Harbor" level event to convince the American people to back the invasion.
We know for a fact that once said event happened that they immediately began agitating to attack Iraq even though there is no evidence of their involvement. We know for a fact that they intentionally misled people in an attempt to make them think Iraq was responsible for 9/11..
If you are not aware of all of these facts, then feel free to read it in their own words.
Add in the fact that the CIA specifically told them not to run with the known bad information that they had and they intentionally ignored it in order to make out Saddam to be a big threat and it's obvious that the situation is not even anywhere near as unclear as your argument would indicate.
You should seek treatment, Darby, for you are a very sick person.
I understand that you desperately need to believe that since your entire deluded world view depends on that being true, but it just isn't true.
Think through what exactly it is that you just called "sick and in need of treatment".
I am a patriotic American who loves my country and what it stands for. I support the death of people who are actively engaged in the destruction of my country, my constitution and my liberty for the defense of myself, my friends, my family and my fellow citizens.
To sane people, this is known as patriotism, love of liberty and freedom and the like.
You however, are such a twisted person that to you these things; which are considered by most to be examples of some of the best parts of human nature, are "sick and in need of treatment".
Is it any surprise that people like you with such a warped and evil view of reality elected the most corrupt administration and congress in our entire history and still have the audacity to defend them because you find it easier to deny reality than to take any responsibility for your own actions?
Obviously you think I'm sick because I stand up for what is good right and decent.
You have a blind hatred of these things so you try to pretend that everyone else is sick and you're just fine.
It's sad, but there's not much they can do with sociopaths so I won't bother recommending that you seek help.
1.) Show me a murder camp.
Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the CIA torture/death camps all over third world shitholes. Of course we can't forget the School of the Americas which was Reagan's terrorist murderer training camp.
You really are totally out of touch with reality, aren't you?
This is the major headline news of our day, Sparky. Maybe you should support your country over your party for once and do your duty as a citizen. It's called being informed.
2.) You didn't seem to go bonkers when Echelon was revealed under a Donkey, which, if reports are correct, was a much more intrusive system.
Typical ignorant Repug idiocy. Of course I went bonkers over that. Why would I as a patriotic American give a shit which party did it? That's you and your sort who treasonously support the party of fascist theocracy against your country and your constitution and attack the "other party" blindly with no sense of integrity, shame or decency.
I ain't like you. I support freedom and liberty. Not fascism regardless of which party does it.
You're a typical Republican. You desperately want simple easy black/white answers and so have a tremendously hard time dealing with reality which isn't that way.
3.) You want (maybe need) to believe they lied, the entirety of truth won't be known for some time, and is likely much more innocuous than you'd like
No, I desperately wish it wasn't true, but when every single fact backs that up and nothing at all backs up your delusional idea then a person with any integrity whatsoever is forced into faqcing the truth.
People with no integrity whatsoever, like yourself and the rest of the Republicans need to hold on to the lie because facing up to what they've allowed and supported would involve personal responsibility which as we all know is anethema to Republicans.
In the mean time, why don't you do your bleeding heart right and support the tens of millions of people who now have the right to determine their own destiny.
Because I'm not a bleeding heart, and I'm smart enough to know that when you wage an illegal war and then tell your victims that they're free at gunpoint that that isn't freedom.
You clearly despise freedom so have no understanding of it. You couldn't be a Republican otherwise.
Always the Chomsky following butthole bitching about human rights here, and human rights there.
Never read and Chomsky. You really should try just once to actually use your brain. It might be painful, but you might find that you are actually able to address reality rather than spouting out the same old tired Republican hate points.
They don't apply and you look stupid when you spout them in the wrong places.
But as soon as somebody goes and does something that liberates 50 million people from totalitarianism, you bitch and moan and attack. It's pathetic.
Yes, the Republicans install totalitarian leaders and then want praise when they are no longer convenient and so they make up lies in order to go through the same old routine again.
Sorry Sparky. I have integrity. You are most likely incapable of understanding that concept. You clearly despise it as you demonstrated so eloquently in your inane ignorant propaganda post.
If you really want to live in a fascist theocracy that badly, why don't you move to Saudi Arabia. They're your kind of people. Since you are too much of a coward to live in a free country, move to one that suits you rather than destroying mine.
I'm sick to death of you cowardly lying traitors.
Enough said.
Indeed it is. It sums up what is currently the single most patriotic act it is possible for a person to engage in. Glad you agree.