Does this strategy work? Well, the neo-Nazis here are very marginalized.
Excellent post and as far as I'm aware you're quite right, Neo-Nazism simply hasn't become a real problem in Western democracies. That's despite the full availability of some of the most emotive and powerful imagery ever employed (such as Hitler's speeches, the Swastika, etc.) which is all still here and just as potent even after all these years.
Free speech for these people and other groups like them is a critical safety valve for society. It also allows the public to judge the words and deeds of said groups for themselves without '3am disappearances' hiding the true extent of a movement.
Yet despite this I've had some (quite heated) arguments with otherwise normal people who would have the Neo-Nazis thrown in prison if they could. Why is this concept of freedom of speech so hard for some people to grasp, even as they enjoy the benefits of a free society?
While I support the concept, the risks of getting things wrong are not worth it IMO.
In my (hopefully) humble opinion, this is the sole failing of the death penalty. As they say, "Better a hundred guilty men go free than a single innocent man be punished unjustly".
How can you spot a liberal? When unable to relate to facts on an issue, they break down into insults and run off into wild directions while using ad-hom's.
I'm not sure that particular Modus operandi is monopolised strictly by Liberals. I do agree with you though; ad hominen generally concedes the argument.
Sociopaths rise to the top disproportionately (politicians and other power seeking people)
You're quite correct. It's a phenomenon almost akin to some sort of natural law:
“Society is like a stew. If you don’t keep it stirred up, you get a lot of scum on top.” Edward Abbey
It seems to me that we have the vote as our only real method of agitation. No surprise then, that our vote matters less and less as society marches on.
Now, if only somebody would develop an engine that could run on a cubic millimeter (a microliter) of U-235 (roughly equivalent to a tank of gas). Or even a completely sealed unit with a milliliter of U235 buried somewhere in its innards (a few hundred thousand miles' worth).
Wouldn't it be safer and more efficient to do it centrally on a bigger scale and simply pipe the resulting electricity to the cars over the existing electrical grid? They could even be plugged in recharge overnight!
You can find such people anywhere. Probably fewer in NZ than the USA. But only because of the difference in total population.
Thanks, I appreciate the call for balance. If it makes the people who are (rightfully) upset by this feel any better, I guarantee I am in good company as I writhe with embarrassment over our country's latest proclamation of self-idiocy. As always, the vacuous are the most vocal.
Although somewhat unrelated, the Aussies give as good as they get and the struggle for trans-Tasman supremacy doesn't get any easier for NZ when we busy ourselves with kicking own-goals. They'll be reminding us about this for a while yet I imagine!
That's right, wave a silent hand over the rampant greed. Good capitalist.
Cool, so I assume you'll be quite happy to stand by your ideology and sell your own house at a 20% discount "because housing costs are too high in this area" then?
Can I also assume you'll be genuinely surprised when someone buys your house and immediately re-sells it to realise the 20% gain you left on the table? Of course, I'm also assuming that the inevitable bidding frenzy between the potential buyers doesn't push your sale price right back up to its market value anyway. Is this the 'silent hand' to which you refer?
Further, since the initial cost of cutting too deep is loss of resilience, it's easy to go beyond the point of no return without noticing.
A deeply insightful comment. Finding a balance here is obviously the goal but as I've no idea how to measure resilience (at a company level) this seems to me like a non-trivial challenge for a juggernaut like IBM.
No excuses though - IBM at least has the money and the clout to approach the problem intelligently and figure this out for themselves.
If this were the USA doing the censorship instead of China, the slashdot commenters would be screaming of tyranny. When China does it, censorship is cheered on as fighting the encroachment of the USA and western influence.
So there are a bunch of us nihilistic fuckers on Slashdot? Who knew?
I mostly agree with you, but then there's this point:
We need a war on guns.
Politely, I think we're all a bit 'war-on-things' weary. If anything, it appears that publicly-proclaimed wars on things serve only to exacerbate whatever they seek to suppress.
What you resist, persists.
Unfortunately I cannot offer a solution but I do recall that the first suggested course of action to take when finding oneself in a hole is to stop digging.
Whoa, I wasn't aware I was speaking to a representative of the entire human race. The honour is all mine!
Less intelligent people only see problems while more intelligent people see the solutions.
Rubbish. Less intelligent people don't bother themselves with problems or solutions because thinking is work and it's much easier to just shovel chips into one's mouth in front of Faux News.
Your despair is due to your inability to find your contribution to the solution. Perhaps you should focus on that.
Thanks for the armchair psychological assessment. I suggest you dial back on the conviction with which you write, especially if you're going to post unfounded rubbish like this.
Thirty years and hitting the sauce, not the best of odds, but hey, go for it. (I was lucky, back mid-Eighties after twenty years of hard drinking; about the only thing that hadn't been adversely affected was my liver. Go figure.)
I've actually heard that before, quite surprising. Of course, I've also heard the other side.. with the stabbing pains and the doctors warning "drink again and its curtains for you buddy".
If you can provide for your physical needs, then it's just an uncomfortable state of mind. If your situation is worse, then it gets really annoying, trending to flat-out bad, going by personal experience.
Like many a tool, if what these guys have found gets used, some of the uses will be ungood. But for someone caught up in a situation that by most lights just needs for them to apply a little extra oomph, might be a good thing - with consent, of course.
Wise words for sure. Personally I'm all for (voluntary) wire-heading. If a wee current applied judiciously can assist in some cases the next logical step would be a small device to monitor and manage the 'dosage' and at that point it's probably ready to be of use for the public. We've done pretty well with the SSRI/SNRI series of drugs but it would be nice to have another way of approaching mental health problems and especially if it has the potential to have lesser or no side-effects.
Neither the original Slashdot post (which linked to the BBC) nor TFA (Washington Post) in this post imply that this was anything more than a common-or-garden theft. Maybe you've heard something I haven't.
No - more likely I've got my facts wrong. I was under the understanding that they brutalised the occupants of the truck once they had them out of the cab. I might just have to go re-read that article..
My sister has been mugged before. I've had friends be mugged. It's horrible, but it's a long way from "sadism" or "torture". Just opportunistic thugs looking to make a little bit of money, who absolutely could be rehabilitated.
Actually I couldn't agree more. Mugging is just awful but it's certainly not what I was upset about; my anger was centred on the unnecessary injury inflicted by the two thieves (which may be hearsay, embarrassingly enough).
I can't speak highly enough of alcoholism, myself. It's the only thing that has kept me anaesthetised against the will-to-live-destroying arrogance and stupidity* of the human race.
Still, only another thirty years to go and I can wave this shithole goodbye forever!
* I don't think I'm smarter than the average person, just smart enough to observe our species' behaviour.. and despair.
The speed of light is also by definition the fastest information can travel.
No, it's not.
Sorry, Opportunist, it looks like this eloquent and reasoned rebuttal has not only completely defeated your argument but also dealt a death blow to that silly Special Relativity baloney.
You are factually incorrect, since the recidivism rate for theft and armed robbery are both below 100%.
Where exactly do I mention recidivism? I am talking about recidivists and make no claims to any statistical knowledge of recidivism rates.
I'd point out that societies which treat crime as a social problem which can be solved instead of a moral failure which deserves retribution tend to have lower crime rates. Sweden for example.
That is a good point and it certainly bears further investigation. It still doesn't necessarily negate my point that we should just face the truth: some people like to hurt others and can't be changed, so we pay to lock them up forever. I believe they are a net negative in society when they could be a net positive - as fertiliser!:)
Fantasizing about being a supreme dictator and torturing people to death has nothing to do with law enforcement. Go ahead and daydream about it if that's your thing, but if you post such fantasies publicly, expect your issues to be commented on. Get help.
Really, this is all you can manage by way of response?
My 'supreme dictator' comment was clearly tongue-in-cheek and very obviously a vehicle for getting my actual point across. You don't really need to have it explained to you that no, we don't actually get to have a turn at being ruler of Earth, do you?
Your debating skills are themselves debatable if the only tool you appear to be able to competently wield is the Straw Man.
It's an easy assumption to guess you are from the USA though. Deciding what's 'best' for others seems to be what you like to do the most.
Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.
Personally I think most of the US citizens are a waste of resources(Mexicans too) and should be eliminated. How's that for thoughtcrime.:)
Actually as a card-carrying misanthrope I have no problem with that.:)
In all seriousness though, I don't want to tell others how to live their lives, I just want them to leave myself and other people alone to live theirs. I also happen to think that recidivist violent offenders - those reject rehabilitation - have no place in this picture.
Slashdot Mirror
It took 10 minutes for the Skynet joke? Slashdot, I am disappoint.
No, it took ten minutes for a duplicate Skynet joke. Do try to keep up! :)
One of the linked articles suggests they have analized the make up of the rock
Typical Humans. Landed less than five minutes ago and already we're molesting the locals.
Thanks Fjord, some interesting information and links.
Does this strategy work? Well, the neo-Nazis here are very marginalized.
Excellent post and as far as I'm aware you're quite right, Neo-Nazism simply hasn't become a real problem in Western democracies. That's despite the full availability of some of the most emotive and powerful imagery ever employed (such as Hitler's speeches, the Swastika, etc.) which is all still here and just as potent even after all these years.
Free speech for these people and other groups like them is a critical safety valve for society. It also allows the public to judge the words and deeds of said groups for themselves without '3am disappearances' hiding the true extent of a movement.
Yet despite this I've had some (quite heated) arguments with otherwise normal people who would have the Neo-Nazis thrown in prison if they could. Why is this concept of freedom of speech so hard for some people to grasp, even as they enjoy the benefits of a free society?
While I support the concept, the risks of getting things wrong are not worth it IMO.
In my (hopefully) humble opinion, this is the sole failing of the death penalty. As they say, "Better a hundred guilty men go free than a single innocent man be punished unjustly".
Ooohhhh!
So how to do you convert from Dollars, or Euros for that matter?
With a set of balance scales, naturally.
How can you spot a liberal? When unable to relate to facts on an issue, they break down into insults and run off into wild directions while using ad-hom's.
I'm not sure that particular Modus operandi is monopolised strictly by Liberals. I do agree with you though; ad hominen generally concedes the argument.
Sociopaths rise to the top disproportionately (politicians and other power seeking people)
You're quite correct. It's a phenomenon almost akin to some sort of natural law:
“Society is like a stew. If you don’t keep it stirred up, you get a lot of scum on top.”
Edward Abbey
It seems to me that we have the vote as our only real method of agitation. No surprise then, that our vote matters less and less as society marches on.
this metal stays hot because it's its own heat source.
WTF? Correct apostrophe usage with "it's" and "its" juxtaposed in syntactically-accurate fashion?
Slashdot really *has* gone to the dogs.
Now, if only somebody would develop an engine that could run on a cubic millimeter (a microliter) of U-235 (roughly equivalent to a tank of gas). Or even a completely sealed unit with a milliliter of U235 buried somewhere in its innards (a few hundred thousand miles' worth).
Wouldn't it be safer and more efficient to do it centrally on a bigger scale and simply pipe the resulting electricity to the cars over the existing electrical grid? They could even be plugged in recharge overnight!
*cheekygrin*
You can find such people anywhere. Probably fewer in NZ than the USA. But only because of the difference in total population.
Thanks, I appreciate the call for balance. If it makes the people who are (rightfully) upset by this feel any better, I guarantee I am in good company as I writhe with embarrassment over our country's latest proclamation of self-idiocy. As always, the vacuous are the most vocal.
Although somewhat unrelated, the Aussies give as good as they get and the struggle for trans-Tasman supremacy doesn't get any easier for NZ when we busy ourselves with kicking own-goals. They'll be reminding us about this for a while yet I imagine!
That's right, wave a silent hand over the rampant greed. Good capitalist.
Cool, so I assume you'll be quite happy to stand by your ideology and sell your own house at a 20% discount "because housing costs are too high in this area" then?
Can I also assume you'll be genuinely surprised when someone buys your house and immediately re-sells it to realise the 20% gain you left on the table? Of course, I'm also assuming that the inevitable bidding frenzy between the potential buyers doesn't push your sale price right back up to its market value anyway. Is this the 'silent hand' to which you refer?
Further, since the initial cost of cutting too deep is loss of resilience, it's easy to go beyond the point of no return without noticing.
A deeply insightful comment. Finding a balance here is obviously the goal but as I've no idea how to measure resilience (at a company level) this seems to me like a non-trivial challenge for a juggernaut like IBM.
No excuses though - IBM at least has the money and the clout to approach the problem intelligently and figure this out for themselves.
If this were the USA doing the censorship instead of China, the slashdot commenters would be screaming of tyranny. When China does it, censorship is cheered on as fighting the encroachment of the USA and western influence.
So there are a bunch of us nihilistic fuckers on Slashdot? Who knew?
I mostly agree with you, but then there's this point:
We need a war on guns.
Politely, I think we're all a bit 'war-on-things' weary. If anything, it appears that publicly-proclaimed wars on things serve only to exacerbate whatever they seek to suppress.
What you resist, persists.
Unfortunately I cannot offer a solution but I do recall that the first suggested course of action to take when finding oneself in a hole is to stop digging.
Well said, sir.
Nobody else thinks you are either.
Whoa, I wasn't aware I was speaking to a representative of the entire human race. The honour is all mine!
Less intelligent people only see problems while more intelligent people see the solutions.
Rubbish. Less intelligent people don't bother themselves with problems or solutions because thinking is work and it's much easier to just shovel chips into one's mouth in front of Faux News.
Your despair is due to your inability to find your contribution to the solution. Perhaps you should focus on that.
Thanks for the armchair psychological assessment. I suggest you dial back on the conviction with which you write, especially if you're going to post unfounded rubbish like this.
Thirty years and hitting the sauce, not the best of odds, but hey, go for it. (I was lucky, back mid-Eighties after twenty years of hard drinking; about the only thing that hadn't been adversely affected was my liver. Go figure.)
I've actually heard that before, quite surprising. Of course, I've also heard the other side.. with the stabbing pains and the doctors warning "drink again and its curtains for you buddy".
If you can provide for your physical needs, then it's just an uncomfortable state of mind. If your situation is worse, then it gets really annoying, trending to flat-out bad, going by personal experience.
Like many a tool, if what these guys have found gets used, some of the uses will be ungood. But for someone caught up in a situation that by most lights just needs for them to apply a little extra oomph, might be a good thing - with consent, of course.
Wise words for sure. Personally I'm all for (voluntary) wire-heading. If a wee current applied judiciously can assist in some cases the next logical step would be a small device to monitor and manage the 'dosage' and at that point it's probably ready to be of use for the public. We've done pretty well with the SSRI/SNRI series of drugs but it would be nice to have another way of approaching mental health problems and especially if it has the potential to have lesser or no side-effects.
Thanks, this was an interesting reply.
Neither the original Slashdot post (which linked to the BBC) nor TFA (Washington Post) in this post imply that this was anything more than a common-or-garden theft. Maybe you've heard something I haven't.
No - more likely I've got my facts wrong. I was under the understanding that they brutalised the occupants of the truck once they had them out of the cab. I might just have to go re-read that article..
My sister has been mugged before. I've had friends be mugged. It's horrible, but it's a long way from "sadism" or "torture". Just opportunistic thugs looking to make a little bit of money, who absolutely could be rehabilitated.
Actually I couldn't agree more. Mugging is just awful but it's certainly not what I was upset about; my anger was centred on the unnecessary injury inflicted by the two thieves (which may be hearsay, embarrassingly enough).
Maybe I'll take up alcoholism, for the holidays.
I can't speak highly enough of alcoholism, myself. It's the only thing that has kept me anaesthetised against the will-to-live-destroying arrogance and stupidity* of the human race.
Still, only another thirty years to go and I can wave this shithole goodbye forever!
* I don't think I'm smarter than the average person, just smart enough to observe our species' behaviour.. and despair.
+1 for the obscure RD reference!
The speed of light is also by definition the fastest information can travel.
No, it's not.
Sorry, Opportunist, it looks like this eloquent and reasoned rebuttal has not only completely defeated your argument but also dealt a death blow to that silly Special Relativity baloney.
You are factually incorrect, since the recidivism rate for theft and armed robbery are both below 100%.
Where exactly do I mention recidivism? I am talking about recidivists and make no claims to any statistical knowledge of recidivism rates.
I'd point out that societies which treat crime as a social problem which can be solved instead of a moral failure which deserves retribution tend to have lower crime rates. Sweden for example.
That is a good point and it certainly bears further investigation. It still doesn't necessarily negate my point that we should just face the truth: some people like to hurt others and can't be changed, so we pay to lock them up forever. I believe they are a net negative in society when they could be a net positive - as fertiliser! :)
Really, this is all you can manage by way of response?
My 'supreme dictator' comment was clearly tongue-in-cheek and very obviously a vehicle for getting my actual point across. You don't really need to have it explained to you that no, we don't actually get to have a turn at being ruler of Earth, do you?
Your debating skills are themselves debatable if the only tool you appear to be able to competently wield is the Straw Man.
It's an easy assumption to guess you are from the USA though. Deciding what's 'best' for others seems to be what you like to do the most.
Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.
Personally I think most of the US citizens are a waste of resources(Mexicans too) and should be eliminated. How's that for thoughtcrime. :)
Actually as a card-carrying misanthrope I have no problem with that. :)
In all seriousness though, I don't want to tell others how to live their lives, I just want them to leave myself and other people alone to live theirs. I also happen to think that recidivist violent offenders - those reject rehabilitation - have no place in this picture.