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In Greece, 10 Months In Prison For "Blasphemous" Facebook Page
First time accepted submitter etash writes "A bit more than a year ago a man was arrested in Greece for satirizing a dead monk, after the far-right party golden dawn, petitioned for his arrest. A couple of days ago he was given a ten-month sentence. What actually enraged the religious Greek blogosphere was not the satire. He wrote a fictitious story about a miracle done in the past by this specific monk. The story was then sent to [a religious blog] and then in a matter of days it was copy pasted and presented as true by most of the religious and far-right blogs and news sites. The final act of the dramedy took place when he came out and revealed that the story was not real; he intended to show the absurdity and the lack of reliability of these sites."
EU law covers freedom of speech/expression. The question is whether he can stay out of jail while appealing this bullshit. The Mediterranean countries are our own domestic third world, but with really good food.
A bit more than a year ago a man was arrested in Greece for satirizing a dead monk, after the far-right party golden dawn, petitioned for his arrest.
The golden dawn petitioned for the arrest of a dead monk, so this guy satirised the monk and got arrested for that?
He wrote a fictitious story about a miracle done in the past by this specific monk.
If he really wrote it then it wasn't fictitious. You may be looking for the word "fictional".
Yeah, this is serious matter
[/satire]
Thankfully the Separation of Church and state is still "mostly" intact in the USA. Though Texas and several other States like Louisiana and Missouri are working to change that, and a couple have been bitten in the butt by their attempt to get state funded religious Schools mean that ALL religions get to have them!
This is just more proof that religion is just evil. It is a means of controlling what you believe. This is why the religious right in the USA is determined to get creation in the schools. So they can indoctrinate children before they learn critical thinking and realize that it is just a means of controlling them.
EU or specific member countries also have laws that prohibit certain types of speech. For example you can't deny holocaust or promote Nazi ideology. I believe some of EU countries have specific laws that prohibit denigration of religion.
... that Greece is not a backward society. That doesn't mean all Greeks are backward of course. Even a statement like that, if made in Greece, could be construed as anti-Hellenistic, and might even result in criminal charges?
One sheep's "blasphemy" is another man's truth.
Government and law should stay the hell out of religious debates.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Maybe they shouldn't have just copypasta'd itnas true without even a few minutes research? This is why far-right nuts should just be shunned for civilized society. Let them go live in a theocratic paradise on some other planet.
So what if he had? Oh, right, insulting religion is illegal in many European countries.
A Pastafarian after my own heart. You WILL be touched by HIS noodly appendage.
Well -since i am a Greek- let me explain.
That guy did a hoax/satire using a dead Greek Christian monk highly respected in my country - it wasn't his first hoax/satire against Christianity...
That was noticed by a right-wing political group and they used an old law for "protecting the religious beliefs/feelings of people against mockery" (created many decades earlier for protecting the Muslim minority) to instil -in an ironic way... we are Greeks...- a sense of logic!
The guy said in an interview he gave in the Greek media that even the police officers and the prosecutors were really upset that they had to charge him... but "dura lex, sed lex" - don't worry, he is not going to jail or anything like that.
...six months after this story is published the author will reveal that he made it up to show how unreliable stories of bloggers being imprisoned are...
I'm also terribly upset I need to beat these people up, breaking families apart, send them with trains throughout several countries, but it's not like they're going to gaschambers or anything...
By NOT acting, or complying with evil orders, you CAN be tried and convicted, as the Nuremberg trials showed.
Captcha: partly
Denying the Holocaust is illegal here in Germany not because of opinion but because it is a false statement, clearly and irrefutably documented.
Do you arrest people who deny evolution or climate change? These are clearly and irrefutably documented facts. The reason that denying the holocaust is illegal is entirely because of public opinion - or rather public fear as to what it might lead to. It happens to be a false statement too but that is justification after the fact otherwise why single out just the one false statement from all the other false things idiots say?
The danger with laws like this is that they try to force individuals into thinking or believing a particular thing. No matter how well intentioned it is this simply does not work. The only way to fight ignorance, even willful ignorance, is with education not laws. Think of it like a vaccination: education does not seem to take hold in everyone exposed to it but so long as it reaches enough of the population there is sufficient immunity that stupidity and ignorance can't become dangerous and spread.
When Tony Blair first rose to power, he immediately set to using the mainstream media to run a MASSIVE propaganda project that informed the sheeple that ANY 'offensive' behaviour was clearly wrong, and therefore should be potentially subject to criminal penalties. Since that time, the UK has introduced dozens of laws that generally define 'offensiveness' as purely the opinion of the self-defined victim. Obviously, only victims in certain well defined classes find that the police and State take an interest if they claim someone has 'offended' them.
So, for instance, a little time back a protester was convicted in a UK court of a serious criminal offence. The crime? The protester had shouted "WAR-MONGER" at an MP (member of parliament- like a member of the US house of Representatives), and this MP had previously voted for all of Blair's wars of aggression. The court ruled that the protester had 'offended' the MP, and therefore caused distress- a clear and serious criminal act.
Today, Tony Blair has ensured that the UK has far worse Laws restricting the Right to Protest than was the case in South Africa at the height of its Israeli backed Apartheid regime (recall that Israel provided the white Nazis of South Africa with nuclear warheads, should the apartheid regime choose to go down fighting rather than recognise black majority rule- the nukes were removed by the Americans when white-rule ended).
The 'MEME' of a 'polite' society being the only civilised society is taught in all UK schools Blair has direct influence over- which means most of them. 'Politeness' of course being a code word for permanent submissiveness to authority- you should not be surprised to learn that Tony Blair, in the midst of the very worst church scandals ever seen, very publicly 'converted' to a Roman Catholic.
Blair's Laws are being imposed ever more effectively across the entire EU. Each corrupt EU regime sees the incredible usefulness of Laws that force THEIR citizens to give up their right of effective protest- and when these laws are sold in the name of 'reasonableness', they are easily promoted in every form of mainstream media output in that nation. In Nazi Germany, "be passive, be polite, be patriotic, be receptive to mainstream media propaganda" worked incredibly well- understand that the German people, even as they gave absolute passive support to a truly foul regime, were individually about as decent as you could hope to experience. 'Niceness' is no defence against true evil, as Tony Blair truly understands.
Tony Blair is VERY close to over-turning a long standing tradition in UK Law- that written/verbal attacks against the dead are ALWAYS lawful. In UK Law, the dead are currently non-persons, but Blair is using the "common sense" (hahahaha) of the sheeple to have the sheeple themselves THINK they are demanding the same protection for the reputation of the (State approved) dead as the living get. However, this Greek case would have been just as unlawful under current UK Law, because Blair recently extended 'offence' laws to cover every form of general religion- so even attacking non-living religious individuals is a serious offence if ANY member of said religion claims 'distress'.
Meanwhile, in the UK, the blatant racism of Blair's mouthpieces- the newspapers and broadcast TV channels- is running at its most extreme level ever- even worse than the British press in the 1950s and in the 1970s (when the press was used to lay the ground for the election of Thatcher, by stirring up such racial tensions, the MI5 creation, the National Front, was able to claim significant ongoing electoral support- which by no coincidence utterly vanished when Thatcher gained power).
You may ask "what about Freedom of Conscience?" but this freedom is NOT defined by one's specific ability to attack the spiritual beliefs of others, even though most sheeple (including most of you reading this) think it is. Indeed Britain's extreme right-wing zionist, and absolute supporter of Israel- Richard Dawkins- is purposely used to
There, that ought to do it. Come at me homos!
Religion is politics. Religion was the first form of government. Had a dispute? Go to the priestess and she would tell you what God(s) say should be done. It's just ludicrous that in the 21 st century people stiil worship these Iron Age mythical gods.
Is that the approx. 2000 year old Gospel accounts illustrate precisely that this behaviour occurs in organised religion, that it's not right, and that a good teacher teaches against such stuff. How can so many from so many Christian churches read their Bible regularly and not see this???
John_Chalisque
In the EU THOSE people would...!
Blasphemous
Anyone who thinks the EU is a single country (or uniform in any way) clearly has never left his mom's basement.
If they wouldn't get elected, then clearly there IS a requirement.
"RUIZ-JARABO COLOMER the Advocate-General of the European Court of Justice gave a legal opinion (in case C-274/99) in 19 October 2000 that criticism of the EU, its institutions or its leading figures was akin to blasphemy. Further, that, because laws against blasphemy were acceptable both under the common law of England and the existing European Human Rights Convention, it then followed that punishing someone for allegedly criticizing the EU was not an infringement of free speech
This opinion was given as a result of a case against a British European Commission official Bernard Connolly, who had written ‘The Rotten Heart Of Europe’, a book critical of the EU.
The European Court of First Instance found against him, ruling that the EU may restrict political speech to protect its interests."
-- http://www.theeuroprobe.org/?p=469
I'm Greek. What's really amusing is that the Golden Dawn party - right wing nuts that they are - are simply using a thin guise of Christianity themselves, and that only to better appeal to the masses. In the eighties the exact same individuals were in the same party publishing their material openly worshiping the ancient Dodecatheon. That's right, Zeus, Hera, all those deities. It came pack and parcel with preaching their nationalist superiority ideals.
They were at best marginalized if not outright ridiculed until the financial crisis hit. Once they realized a whole lot of people were desperate and looking for someone to hate, someone to blame for their misfortunes they also figured out this was a prime opportunity for them to rise in actual power. They reshaped their speeches, packaged their image a little better to appeal to senior citizens and angry young men then pointed a finger to immigrants, Jews, you name it - while of course suddenly featuring a deep faith in all things Christian. Complete with hatred and barely restrained racism, because of course that's what Christianity is all about.
The worst part of this? They have an excellent chance in being a kingmaker in the next elections. It will come down between the current conservative government and a leftist coalition of political powers in Greece, but it's quite likely neither will have the majority on their own. And the Golden Dawn is squarely third in the polls right now... and of course they'll be able to make a deal so that a government can be formed at all.
Neonazis in power. It's a nightmare.
Meh.
I say we all chip in a little bit - each of us - and kick a little money on his books so he doesn't have to worry about life too much. I think it would be cool for him to get a downpour of small amounts of money here and there - the support from slashdotters would mean far more to him than $5 or so. Can't we slashdot a more than a website?
Instead of all the oppression of Christians and European Americans which has been happening under Obama? Your editor's bias is shining clear.
> He wrote a fictitious story about a miracle ... he intended to show the absurdity and the lack of reliability of these sites.
So, its basically along the lines of Sokal Affair. ...except for the arrest and incarceration of course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair
Anaxagoras, Socrates, Aristotle. In ancient Greece (or Athens, specifically), the charge of impiety was sometimes used for political reasons (i.e. to dispose of people that the public, or at least a few influential individuals, found to be a nuisance or an menace). Sounds like there was a political angle to the modern case as well. The more things change... Here's a link to an article about the history of this practice. That said, what was this guy trying to accomplish by mocking a dead monk? Not a cool thing to do, whatever your religious views.
The truth is that not even the various Churches believe in many of those supernatural gurus or miraculous places. But they can't deny them, because people like to believe in them and they can't afford losing more faithful; because locals earn a lot from religious tourism and the Churches get their share of that money; and possibly because advocating for rationality in religion-based matters for them would be like throwing stones in the proverbial glass house.
I think 'fictitious' caters better to this context: it was an elaborate hoax designed to ridicule the believers. Whereas 'fictional' seems to imply he was writing fiction solely as a form of artistic expression.
About 5 euros. Ba dum tish.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Because for some people, the atrocity commited by the nazi overrule the freedom of neo nazi to to praise those attrocities, you see it the other way around, good for you. But as you say freedom of speech so those people opinion are as good as yours, and sicne germany is considered a democracy with freedom, it seems those rule aern't as bad as you purport... By the way in some country like germany, the USA IIRC *requested* those banning rule. So every time you see about nazi stuff banned in germany, recall who put the alw in place....
This issue internationally shames the Greek government. Unfortunately, the crisis has also put a toll to our democracy. The government in order to pass the austerity measures finds allies in the neo-nazi party golden dawn.
Please make this issue known all over the world. Petition to stop the economic pressure on Greece and to protect the freedom of speech of its citizens.
By the way, the guy they sentenced was amazing at redeculling the neo-nazi propaganda of monk prophets and their conspiracies.
Welp, I guess the xtians can't claim that any more.
Dude, eristic argument is the mainstay of civilization. We're always engaged in the internecine struggle to discredit other parties to our own ends. I'm doing it right now.
More interestingly, this is perhaps the founding principle of the human language capacity.
The Argumentative Theory
From the text itself:
What this fellow did is conduct a hack against pompous insularity. Take a turd, disguise it with some food colouring, put it on their plate when they aren't looking, then watch the gobble it up while the pound the table exclaiming "We don't eat turd!"
What you end up demonstrating is that they distinguish turd from non-turd mainly by social optics, and not by its sensory quality.
Always the rule with those engaged in pompous insularity is that no outsider has standing to challenge their practices unless first vetted by the gatekeepers of the pompous insularity itself.
In order to achieve this, you'll have to master the extremely arduous standards of the profession (prestige barriers are usually high) in the pursuit of an outcome (deflating the eminent within that profession) that will have you black-listed from any form of employment where you could ever hope to receive a personal gain in exercise of the mastery you slaved to achieve. And then the gate keepers mock you when you say "thanks, but no thanks".
It's so much easier to sneak a poop pie onto the buffet table and watch them eat it smacking their lips.
It's the same deal with a packet filter in network security: hard crunchy outside, soft chewy inside. The professional walls are exceedingly hard to breach, but the defences inside those walls (which involve hard intellectual work to sustain) have long since gone to the dogs, yet they behave externally as if their house is in perfect order. This is an eternal story.
What it comes down to is whether one regards this kind of hack, which begins with a small deception, as a valid form of whistleblowing.
I hate when people forward some exciting "news" in social sites to make some groundbreaking invention that is clearly false.
But as you say freedom of speech so those people opinion are as good as yours
That is not what freedom of speech means. Although it does mean that government doesn't get to pick favorites with respect to peoples' opinions.
sicne germany is considered a democracy with freedom, it seems those rule aern't as bad as you purport...
Well, sure it could be a lot worse. Getting shot for having insufficiently glowing praise of the Glorious Leader (or because someone had to make quota on their inspiring fear to-do list) is a bit worse than getting fined or whatever for having a fairly radical viewpoint for a rather slimy ideology which lost a big fight a lifetime ago.
By the way in some country like germany, the USA IIRC *requested* those banning rule.
Because the US never does the "Do as I say, not as I do" thing, amirite? All you need to know is that similar attempts to restrict such speech are heavily resisted in the US and have never been successful.
Surely such a nice bunch of Christians would just forgive him?
He should have gotten a nobel for literature instead of a jail term.. Those sites never check their facts. "proof of noahs flood by drowned dinosaur !" "engraved rock proved with carbon 14!" etc etc.. I have a pastor ('Whaaat?') that I check in with often, and I really like him, but he never checks out his stories, and it's seriously affecting his credibility.. Some knowingly misrepresent these facts, not caring, as long as it supports their stories, and these are the worst...
You *do* know that the IMF introduced these "austerity measures" to collapse the Greek economy, right? Just like they're doing it to collapse the others with "austerity measures" It's all based on "neo-classical" economics. the main goal of which is to introduce a global currency market. They (the fed) have already swiped all the gold from these countries that relied on them to keep it safe. That prevents any countries from trying to create a currency based on a gold standard. Now that that's done, all they have to do is bankupt the smaller countrires such as yours, and then go to the bigger ones such as Spain, Portugal, and Germany etc, Only China, Russia, and, believe it or not, Iceland, stand in the way. This ain't yer granny's economics 101, that's for sure!
Blasphemy makes no claim about whether the statement is true or false (like some interpretations of libel). So yeah, GP can be considered blasphemy depending on how hard-ass one is about it.
"Blasphemy is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God, to religious or holy persons or things, or toward something considered sacred or inviolable."
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
Why not ban religion. After all, how many people has it killed since someone thought of it.
It's worth noting that Holmes came to reconsider his "yelling fire in a crowded theater" idea, and in fact later wrote a minority opinion in strong defense of expansive Free Speech in Abrams v. United States.
I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
Historical circumstances notwithstanding, I'm far from convinced the Catholic school system here in Canada has any right to exist. Certainly I don't believe it should be receiving any funding from the State particular to its outdated special status.
I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
I'm a street photographer and here in Greece we don't have freedom of speech because the EU-backed personal data privacy law forbids us from taking and publishing candid photos of identifiable people in public places, such as in the street. The law says we need the written permission from the subject of the photo, so our freedom of speech for journalism and fine art purposes is non-existent. The same happens in France, where street photographers have stopped publishing their books, and in Germany where Google Street View is forced to delete pictures of shops or homes if the owner makes a privacy complain. America is still free because it has got the First Amendment, but many EU countries still don't even have a constitution at all, like the UK. As long as we can't photograph, publish and sell candid photos of people in the street without their permission, I refuse to believe that we have a democracy here in Greece. The freedom of speech enjoyed in America and my interest in publishing and selling candid street photography is what makes me want to become a US citizen and leave Greece and EU with its crazy privacy laws.
Larry Flynt sums it up best himself: "If the First Amendment will protect a scumbag like me, then it will protect all of you. Because I'm the worst.
Hmm. Let's have a recap, shall we?
Thou shalt remain ignorant of anything not printed in this book.
It is not a tenet of most religions. It is a tenet of a few religions, and some of them have been very loud.
Even if it's a tenet of numerically few religions then it's not simply that those religions have been loud... So what you're really saying is that 300m of 7bn people may not have a religious scripture to adhere to... So unless you're going to pretend that you were just referring to the Koran and that the bible doesn't exist or whatever then I don't really understand where you're coming from.
Oh, but I do know where you're coming from. You're so eager to make your point that you didn't read carefully what was being written. That's not what I said at all. Read it again. Better yet, read what I was responding to. Parse it carefully. Don't read what you thought that it said, or want it to say; read what it actually does say.
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
For anyone that has missed what is going on in Greece since 2010, with the extreme austerity packages and the humanitarian crisis that is evolving because of them for 4 years now, this decision comes as a surprise.
Of course, anyone living in the country knows that the upcoming elections cause similar and will cause even more extreme measures. There is no real politics going on in Greece right now, only taming the natives, by "whatever means necessary".
"Abashed the Devil stood, and felt how awful goodness is..."
This is not exactly freedom of expression. The guy was busted telling a lie. There is no reason to suppose there is an absolute human right to go around telling lies. You might think the lie is justified, or you might think telling lies is ok. Well that's fine as an opinion, but telling lies is not a noble pursuit, even if his end goal was worthy ( which in itself is questionable. What institution is beyond the reach of liers and scammers?). Pretty much ALL societies ban certain kinds of lies.
We should go find a more worthy subject off our pity.