I'm not sure if I understand why you'd need a hybrid of the two. it seems that threaded discussions in the form of a message-board system should work relatively well if some ground rules were set up initially (like... private messages go in a new forum thread, or a system of PM-emails on the forum site was a part of the system)
Keep in mind that generally now, IMs are thought of as more 'disposable', and people write one or two sentence posts (as mentioned above) quite often. in informal discussions, the majority are pretty empty 'hahah' or 'lol' types of things.
additionally, people who are used to this culture of 'fast, short messages' in chat will be a little thrown off if you then ask people to post thoughtful and insightful messages via a chat medium. longer messages take time to read, and the constant automatic scrolling of text as messages come in will be really frustrating to participants.
Besides the advantage of easier readibility due to NOT having automatically scrolling text like in a chat system, an advantage to using a more "lagged" system or "asynchronous" system is the perception of more permanence to the messages. people will generally put more thought into their replies, and people used to the cultural difference between IM and forums won't be annoyed when a person sends a couple paragraphs in what most see as a disposable chat medium. forums "look" like websites, so the content in the forum looks/feels more permanent. EVERYONE can read it, even long after it's posted if the forum itself is kept visible. Even if it's disclosed early on that all forum messages will be deleted after the discussion, there's still the perception of permanence because it's on a solid "static" webpage.
so, technically yes, chat is a non-threaded forum, but there are differences in perception and the effect of those differences that could have a big impact on the quality of discussion by participants.
Even back when IM was first becoming popular, there was a general fuzziness about how "long" messages should be, or what was normal. the first ICQ clients had larger input fields than most IM clients do, and you had to hit alt+s or click the send button to send it (return gave you a new line). As a result, most sent longer messages and that was "normal" because of how the software was designed.
and, haha... when people would send one-line IMs to me on ICQ back then, I'd get really annoyed too... oh the innocent life of the mid 90s.
Anyway, the "percieved lag" or the "percieved permanence" of a message really does influence how someone uses it. chat seems disposable, generally now... so people give one-liners.
This is less like computer-generated music, and more like machine-learning, only through music. Seems hella awesome.
And for the record, art/music is often about context, and the artist is a big part of what makes music "good". An unknown musician doesn't ever make it into the top 20 without the help of producers, promoters, radio spots, stories, etc. This is basic marketing. The product itself rarely sells--it's the story or the artist behind it or the context or just plain mob-consumer mentality that was initially triggered by one of those things that accumulates together to make the thing popular.
if a robot made cool music, and was intelligent, neat. it might be popular, but not because it is good music... more because it was ROBOT-made music.
Otherwise, I'd be a fangirl of the engineer who made the robot... just like I'm getting all woozy thinking about the people who made this software.
The farmer DID give permission. It says so right in the write up. She seemed really excited to have us and was sad that her husband was out of the state and might not see it before the circle goes away.
It's a largely un-talked about fact that the US is a multilingual country made up in part of immigrants with more than one language. If we regionalized the internet, it would encourage the US internet to separate from other countries, and encourage a monolingual internet due to the power structures in place. I'm not saying that it WILL do this, but considering the fact that the vast majority of those people who are in power speak only English, and those who make decisions for citizens about media, industry, advertising, entertainment are generally among the white, monolingual majority, I'm sure that if we regionalized the internet and cut the country off from other countries, it would worsen the problem of minority alienation--only this time it wouldn't be in the economic or employment or education sectors. It would be in the electronic sectors.
with the recent coverage of google bowing to their censor-happy asses and such, it makes this topic a hot one for those interested in information-distribution and dissimination.
I think that makes it more than relevant to/. readers.
I don't think that this will pass. with our government always so concerned about hurting the economy, I think they'll see that making a move like this will hurt businesses and stunt the growth of ALL THE BUSINESSES in the USA that use the internet regularly for communication, advertising, etc... it would place an undue burden on small businesses.
No one is going to let this idea really gather steam... no one's going to be ok with hurting all those businesses just for the sake of these (very large and vocal) few businesses.
What exactly are they trying to fix by discussing something like this? the internet isn't broken. this won't solve any problems... aren't most of the spammers and warez groups international anyway? pirate groups aren't all in the US.
This will only make money for those who own the lines and transmitters.
Additionally, a move like this will stunt the growth of emerging cyber culture. very human social identies and groups are emerging in online communities and online gaming culture, and this is really really fucking interesting to critical theorists and tech-culture theorists, and just anyone else who's fascinated by how a kid can multitask with a game, IM, do homework, write email, AND eat a corn dog at the same time while his parent's can't. The internet is TEACHING kids how to be productive and think and function on many levels at once. The internet is widening the "generation gap" as far as tech-literacy and ability to use new tools, and all of this change will be totally stunted if the internet switches to a pay-for-bandwidth model.
I wish someone would mod you up. I think you've got a really good point. This whole discussion is very one-sided, and while I agree with the "majority" so to speak, you're an excellent devil's advocate and make a valid point here.
How would this program tell the difference between mp3s you ripped yourself from cds you have on your shelf and mp3s that you downloaded from the interwebs?
I think the "pay $4-5 to make it all legal" idea would only work if all record labels participated, and all ISPs participated. You'd have to basically force every ISP to add this "music-download tax," and implement it across the board... otherwise customers are going to be flocking to the competition that doesn't include this tax, and continue downloading things for free.
Really, we're all whiny brats when it comes to our cable bills, so few of us (especially us poor college kids) are going to be ok with a $5 increase...
The idea of buying a license is interesting though. How would that work for those of us who have multiple copies of files on different machines or different music devices. I don't see how this could be enforced either... all p2p networks would have to participate and count how many files you downloaded, or check some kind of secure file that had a universally readable mp3 file count on your machine.
Both are interesting ideas, but I don't yet see how they could work.
yes exactly. I totally agree. But to say that the original root of the word makes it impossible for that meaning to change depending on usage and interpretation is wrong.
Additionally, it's possible for the intent of a word to not be racist/offensive, but the person can still be offended. for example, saying "that's so gay" isn't intended to offend, but many people are offended because it's equating gayness with something bad.
I also pissed off someone recently by using the word "verbose" to mean simply being wordy... I didn't know that it usually gets interpreted as "loud/rude/obnoxious" to people outside the tech world. so there's an example where pointing out how a word is usually seen helped me.
HOWEVER, you're right... this little tangent is getting totally out of hand because it's obvious that "chink in the armor" had nothing to do with being derogatory to Japanese/Chinese/Korean people and whoever started this thread smells a lot like a troll.
Language changes and meanings change constantly. Just because the "original" root of a word wasn't racist doesn't mean that current usages of it aren't racist.
To say that the "original" meaning should hold priority still is implying that God came down in our History and gave us a Grand Dictionary to use to learn how to talk, and to make any changes to His Grand Dictionary or the Definitions Therein would send us all straight to Hell.
So... seeing as how words like "verbose," "parse," "compile," and "de-bug" (that one's a favorite... ENIAC kids actually went in and collected dead moths and bugs from vacuum tubes) all have different meanings now from what their earlier pre-technology definitions were, it means we're all going to BURN IN HELL!
Besides, if we wanted to say that the "original" meaning of words is the "real" meaning of words, we'd have to go back to how "UHhhHH uhh HUUUHUH huh" meant "wooly mammoth over there. let's get him!"
Last sentence: This leads one to wonder if it is truely a software problem or if there a much larger hardware problem that may affect Core Duo equipped Apple systems.
Did they mean "...Core Duo equipped Apple systems AS WELL" ? Or was it supposed to read "windows systems" still and may be a typo?...meaning that the problem being discussed could be much larger than initially thought in general, and not necessarily making the leap to Apple computers yet.
Clearly there's implications for Duo Core equipped Apple Systems. Just wondering if they meant to implicate that at that point and were just sloppy about it, or what.:)
I don't know if this reply will get moderated any higher than anyone elses or will ever be seen but anyone, but I'd like to say that I know what it feels like to be overwhelmed, want a way out, and feel like I can't find a way to get out.
There's not an easy way to offer suggestions to a problem like this, and i wish that the rest of the commentors weren't so big on saying things like "welcome to the real world" and "nope, no way out" and actually offer some SUGGESTIONS.
If i were in that situation (and I will be shortly), is I would find a way to FEEL like I am not so overwhelmed. If you make specific ordered lists of the things you have to do each day, you can get things done sooner (like chores, or work tasks etc) and with better organization and management of time, you may find you have a few hours a night before you sleep to get on Monster.com or write or revise a resume or start searching for a new job. You can also grab a newspaper during your lunch break at work and scan ads, highlight them and stick them in your pocket before you go back to work. Every day, find a way to do some small thing related to searching for a new job instead of trying to find a large chunk of time to devote to searching.
Obviously, you'll never be able to find a large amount of time to dedicate to this if you're as busy as you say. The best solution is to manage what time you have more efficiently.
Another alternative could be to talk to your boss and discuss the pressure/stress you are under and ask if there is a way that you can delegate some of your responsibilities to others, or explain that your productivity would go up if you were able to do so. (Don't let on that you're looking for another job) Perhaps go to a supervisor instead first, or ask the advice of co-workers as to how to approach your boss or supervisor about the fact that you are completely overwhelmed and about to go insane.
just be smart about it. If finding a new job is a priority, come up with strategies for finding a few minutes or a half an hour EVERY DAY to searching for a new job. I would imagine that "searching-for-new-job" time would help your sanity anyway, so you're killing two birds with one stone if you designate this time also as self-sanity time.
You should be able to reclaim your account if you have access to a previously validated email address.
I'm surprised the lj support forums aren't flooded with requests on this. i'm only seeing half a dozen, and they're all being replied to with messages along the lines of "thanks for your report. we're aware of it. the errors happened during regular maintenence." That's interesting.
Actually, the hacks most likely weren't related to user-end features. javascript is disabled on all user-controlled pages (no idea about the internal workings of lj... it's open source, but I know nothing about how it works).
Slashdot Mirror
I'm not sure if I understand why you'd need a hybrid of the two. it seems that threaded discussions in the form of a message-board system should work relatively well if some ground rules were set up initially (like... private messages go in a new forum thread, or a system of PM-emails on the forum site was a part of the system)
Keep in mind that generally now, IMs are thought of as more 'disposable', and people write one or two sentence posts (as mentioned above) quite often. in informal discussions, the majority are pretty empty 'hahah' or 'lol' types of things.
additionally, people who are used to this culture of 'fast, short messages' in chat will be a little thrown off if you then ask people to post thoughtful and insightful messages via a chat medium. longer messages take time to read, and the constant automatic scrolling of text as messages come in will be really frustrating to participants.
Besides the advantage of easier readibility due to NOT having automatically scrolling text like in a chat system, an advantage to using a more "lagged" system or "asynchronous" system is the perception of more permanence to the messages. people will generally put more thought into their replies, and people used to the cultural difference between IM and forums won't be annoyed when a person sends a couple paragraphs in what most see as a disposable chat medium. forums "look" like websites, so the content in the forum looks/feels more permanent. EVERYONE can read it, even long after it's posted if the forum itself is kept visible. Even if it's disclosed early on that all forum messages will be deleted after the discussion, there's still the perception of permanence because it's on a solid "static" webpage.
so, technically yes, chat is a non-threaded forum, but there are differences in perception and the effect of those differences that could have a big impact on the quality of discussion by participants.
Just some stuff to think about.
I would agree with this.
Even back when IM was first becoming popular, there was a general fuzziness about how "long" messages should be, or what was normal. the first ICQ clients had larger input fields than most IM clients do, and you had to hit alt+s or click the send button to send it (return gave you a new line). As a result, most sent longer messages and that was "normal" because of how the software was designed.
and, haha... when people would send one-line IMs to me on ICQ back then, I'd get really annoyed too... oh the innocent life of the mid 90s.
Anyway, the "percieved lag" or the "percieved permanence" of a message really does influence how someone uses it. chat seems disposable, generally now... so people give one-liners.
+342 joy points to you. :)
:)
thanks, hero.
This is less like computer-generated music, and more like machine-learning, only through music. Seems hella awesome.
And for the record, art/music is often about context, and the artist is a big part of what makes music "good". An unknown musician doesn't ever make it into the top 20 without the help of producers, promoters, radio spots, stories, etc. This is basic marketing. The product itself rarely sells--it's the story or the artist behind it or the context or just plain mob-consumer mentality that was initially triggered by one of those things that accumulates together to make the thing popular.
if a robot made cool music, and was intelligent, neat. it might be popular, but not because it is good music... more because it was ROBOT-made music.
Otherwise, I'd be a fangirl of the engineer who made the robot... just like I'm getting all woozy thinking about the people who made this software.
of course. :) Don't we both know martial arts or something?
hahaha. thanks for defending our feminine GEEKY honor.
but YOU got to FLY IN THE HELICOPTER!
OMG! We made a Firefox crop circle, Beth!
Actually, that's my OLD BLOG. Don't GO THERE.
I'm at pennyhero.net now. my blogspot one is going bye bye.
me and gordonel!
*does the girl geek dance*
The farmer DID give permission. It says so right in the write up. She seemed really excited to have us and was sad that her husband was out of the state and might not see it before the circle goes away.
This was probably the most fun I ever had in my life. And now it's on slashdot! It can't get any better!
:)
I challenge others to come up with other ways to creatively promote the stuff they love. Try and beat this! muahahaha.
TAKE BACK THE [insert your geek-dom here].
your laundry gets done in 15 minutes? *boggles*
It's a largely un-talked about fact that the US is a multilingual country made up in part of immigrants with more than one language. If we regionalized the internet, it would encourage the US internet to separate from other countries, and encourage a monolingual internet due to the power structures in place. I'm not saying that it WILL do this, but considering the fact that the vast majority of those people who are in power speak only English, and those who make decisions for citizens about media, industry, advertising, entertainment are generally among the white, monolingual majority, I'm sure that if we regionalized the internet and cut the country off from other countries, it would worsen the problem of minority alienation--only this time it wouldn't be in the economic or employment or education sectors. It would be in the electronic sectors.
with the recent coverage of google bowing to their censor-happy asses and such, it makes this topic a hot one for those interested in information-distribution and dissimination.
/. readers.
I think that makes it more than relevant to
I don't think that this will pass. with our government always so concerned about hurting the economy, I think they'll see that making a move like this will hurt businesses and stunt the growth of ALL THE BUSINESSES in the USA that use the internet regularly for communication, advertising, etc... it would place an undue burden on small businesses.
No one is going to let this idea really gather steam... no one's going to be ok with hurting all those businesses just for the sake of these (very large and vocal) few businesses.
What exactly are they trying to fix by discussing something like this? the internet isn't broken. this won't solve any problems... aren't most of the spammers and warez groups international anyway? pirate groups aren't all in the US.
This will only make money for those who own the lines and transmitters.
Additionally, a move like this will stunt the growth of emerging cyber culture. very human social identies and groups are emerging in online communities and online gaming culture, and this is really really fucking interesting to critical theorists and tech-culture theorists, and just anyone else who's fascinated by how a kid can multitask with a game, IM, do homework, write email, AND eat a corn dog at the same time while his parent's can't. The internet is TEACHING kids how to be productive and think and function on many levels at once. The internet is widening the "generation gap" as far as tech-literacy and ability to use new tools, and all of this change will be totally stunted if the internet switches to a pay-for-bandwidth model.
Scholars and geeks need to unite here!
I wish someone would mod you up. I think you've got a really good point. This whole discussion is very one-sided, and while I agree with the "majority" so to speak, you're an excellent devil's advocate and make a valid point here.
How would this program tell the difference between mp3s you ripped yourself from cds you have on your shelf and mp3s that you downloaded from the interwebs?
I think the "pay $4-5 to make it all legal" idea would only work if all record labels participated, and all ISPs participated. You'd have to basically force every ISP to add this "music-download tax," and implement it across the board... otherwise customers are going to be flocking to the competition that doesn't include this tax, and continue downloading things for free.
Really, we're all whiny brats when it comes to our cable bills, so few of us (especially us poor college kids) are going to be ok with a $5 increase...
The idea of buying a license is interesting though. How would that work for those of us who have multiple copies of files on different machines or different music devices. I don't see how this could be enforced either... all p2p networks would have to participate and count how many files you downloaded, or check some kind of secure file that had a universally readable mp3 file count on your machine.
Both are interesting ideas, but I don't yet see how they could work.
yes exactly. I totally agree. But to say that the original root of the word makes it impossible for that meaning to change depending on usage and interpretation is wrong.
Additionally, it's possible for the intent of a word to not be racist/offensive, but the person can still be offended. for example, saying "that's so gay" isn't intended to offend, but many people are offended because it's equating gayness with something bad.
I also pissed off someone recently by using the word "verbose" to mean simply being wordy... I didn't know that it usually gets interpreted as "loud/rude/obnoxious" to people outside the tech world. so there's an example where pointing out how a word is usually seen helped me.
HOWEVER, you're right... this little tangent is getting totally out of hand because it's obvious that "chink in the armor" had nothing to do with being derogatory to Japanese/Chinese/Korean people and whoever started this thread smells a lot like a troll.
Language changes and meanings change constantly. Just because the "original" root of a word wasn't racist doesn't mean that current usages of it aren't racist.
To say that the "original" meaning should hold priority still is implying that God came down in our History and gave us a Grand Dictionary to use to learn how to talk, and to make any changes to His Grand Dictionary or the Definitions Therein would send us all straight to Hell.
So... seeing as how words like "verbose," "parse," "compile," and "de-bug" (that one's a favorite... ENIAC kids actually went in and collected dead moths and bugs from vacuum tubes) all have different meanings now from what their earlier pre-technology definitions were, it means we're all going to BURN IN HELL!
Besides, if we wanted to say that the "original" meaning of words is the "real" meaning of words, we'd have to go back to how "UHhhHH uhh HUUUHUH huh" meant "wooly mammoth over there. let's get him!"
Last sentence: This leads one to wonder if it is truely a software problem or if there a much larger hardware problem that may affect Core Duo equipped Apple systems.
...meaning that the problem being discussed could be much larger than initially thought in general, and not necessarily making the leap to Apple computers yet.
:)
Did they mean "...Core Duo equipped Apple systems AS WELL" ? Or was it supposed to read "windows systems" still and may be a typo?
Clearly there's implications for Duo Core equipped Apple Systems. Just wondering if they meant to implicate that at that point and were just sloppy about it, or what.
I don't know if this reply will get moderated any higher than anyone elses or will ever be seen but anyone, but I'd like to say that I know what it feels like to be overwhelmed, want a way out, and feel like I can't find a way to get out.
There's not an easy way to offer suggestions to a problem like this, and i wish that the rest of the commentors weren't so big on saying things like "welcome to the real world" and "nope, no way out" and actually offer some SUGGESTIONS.
If i were in that situation (and I will be shortly), is I would find a way to FEEL like I am not so overwhelmed. If you make specific ordered lists of the things you have to do each day, you can get things done sooner (like chores, or work tasks etc) and with better organization and management of time, you may find you have a few hours a night before you sleep to get on Monster.com or write or revise a resume or start searching for a new job. You can also grab a newspaper during your lunch break at work and scan ads, highlight them and stick them in your pocket before you go back to work. Every day, find a way to do some small thing related to searching for a new job instead of trying to find a large chunk of time to devote to searching.
Obviously, you'll never be able to find a large amount of time to dedicate to this if you're as busy as you say. The best solution is to manage what time you have more efficiently.
Another alternative could be to talk to your boss and discuss the pressure/stress you are under and ask if there is a way that you can delegate some of your responsibilities to others, or explain that your productivity would go up if you were able to do so. (Don't let on that you're looking for another job) Perhaps go to a supervisor instead first, or ask the advice of co-workers as to how to approach your boss or supervisor about the fact that you are completely overwhelmed and about to go insane.
just be smart about it. If finding a new job is a priority, come up with strategies for finding a few minutes or a half an hour EVERY DAY to searching for a new job. I would imagine that "searching-for-new-job" time would help your sanity anyway, so you're killing two birds with one stone if you designate this time also as self-sanity time.
well, I'm sure they want to make it sound like they knew it was happening and that it isn't the fault of something beyond their control.
Lj doesn't want to instil panic in all their emo angsty users. They might cry or something.
You should be able to reclaim your account if you have access to a previously validated email address.
I'm surprised the lj support forums aren't flooded with requests on this. i'm only seeing half a dozen, and they're all being replied to with messages along the lines of "thanks for your report. we're aware of it. the errors happened during regular maintenence." That's interesting.
Actually, the hacks most likely weren't related to user-end features. javascript is disabled on all user-controlled pages (no idea about the internal workings of lj... it's open source, but I know nothing about how it works).