Slashdot Mirror
How Do You Job-Hunt If You Work Overtime?
Lord_Dweomer asks: "As a recent college grad, I took a job to pay the bills, but soon realized that it would end up sucking the life out of me. I work a lot of overtime in a high-stress, tight deadline job. Once you get into that kind of downward spiral, how do you find another job?"
"All my free time, during the week, is completely non-existent, and the weekends are needed to take care of chores, and preserve my mental health. Are potential employers typically sensitive to the fact that I may not be able to interview during the week or during standard work hours? Also, will having left here after a year seem like a real black mark on my resume? My reasons for leaving, aside from the overtime (I am non-exempt), would be that I've basically been promoted in work load and responsibilities -- and have even taken on another job role, IN ADDITION to my current one. All of this without a raise in pay, or new title.
I'd quit if I had a choice, but I really need the money, yet I'm unable to look for a new job because of lack of time. How am I supposed to job hunt under these circumstances?"
I'd quit if I had a choice, but I really need the money, yet I'm unable to look for a new job because of lack of time. How am I supposed to job hunt under these circumstances?"
The same way you found the time to make this post on Slashdot?
You leave the job when you die at age 41.
How bad do you want that job? Willing to subsist on rice & beans and skip beer for a few days to make up for the non-paid time off for your job search? If not, maybe the status quo doesn't suck so bad after all.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
As much as I hate dealing with this festering pool of opportunists, sometimes you just have to contain your revulsion and deal with a headhunter. With the promise of a fat fee, they can be quite motivated to place you and can often get you "in" to places that would just pass your resume by.
You're going to have to burn days off to do the interviewing I'm afraid. I wouldn't worry about the one year issue- from what I hear from recruiters, thats about average for a first job.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
> Are potential employers typically sensitive to the fact that I
> may not be able to interview during the week or during standard
> work hours?
No.
> Also, will having left here after a year seem like a real black
> mark on my resume?
No.
Got any vacation days? Use them up to go job hunting. Failing that, quit this job now and get something convenient (like working in a friend's bar in the evenings) to pay the bills while you spend the mornings interviewing. Or sign up with a temp agency. I did that when I was between jobs once, got me by until I found something permanent, and it had the 'benefit' of not being obliged to work every day in perpetuity. It was a bit nerve-wracking though, my finances were living on the edge, so it depends on how much reserves you have in the bank.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
employers want to interview you during the day, most of the big normal emplyers. Contract employers are more flexible but still normal bussiness hours.
Sounds unhealthy, take some sick days before it gets any worse.
Cut back on some bills. Try, for instance, to reduce your payments on internet, use less water/electricity. Find cheaper sources of food. Then, work less overtime. Now you have more free time to job hunt. You might get real tight on money at the time, but if you can find a better job, it'll be worth it!
Good luck mate!
mysql>SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
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There are lots of positions that you could look for online at any time of the day or night. Why not just look for the job after hours and send off your resume by e-mail then? You're going to have to take a day off or something for the interview, but that's even if you're not working overtime.
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
A lot of people take sick leave to go to job interviews. Maybe it's time for your kids to catch a nasty flu or for you to start come down with strange migraines that require you to leave work often and go to the doctor at least weekly.
I used to just be really brazen about it, showing up for work in a nice suit, disappearing for three hours, and taking phone calls from recruiters in front of my coworkers. It got one employer to give me two huge bonuses, a nice raise, and hire a junior SA to handle some of the work. There's this old proverb about squeaky wheels and grease...
Is there any way you can save some money in the short-term so you can take some time off? I'm paying to live in a house and feed a family all by myself, on a less-than-average wage. There's a lot we live without, and we run on a tight, tight budget, but we manage.
If you're already willing to change jobs, then just slack off at your current job. You've got to figure you'll get a couple weeks at least until they fire you. Plus, if they fire you then you can get unemployment while you look for a job.
Just don't put "ethical" on your resume.
I learned (not quickly mind you) that 14 hour days sometimes 7 days a week quickly suck the life out of you. Take time for yourself.
If you have to use vacation days to attemd interviews but ultimately you may have to find an agency to find jobs for you.
Besides, the agencies usually get word of upcoming positions before any job hunter would. Another tip, it's easier to make your demands when you already have employment and thus aren't desparate for a paycheck.
Just my $0.02
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
the weekends are needed to take care of chores, and preserve my mental health
I call whiny bitch. If you really wanted it, you would skip on the "mental health" part of the weekends and spend the time getting a new job. Then, later, when you had a new job, you'd get the benefit of not being so stressed out all the time.
"How do I get something I want but not have to do any work for it?"
Welcome to real life, bud. No pain, no gain. And in this case, a little pain now seems like it could pay off big-time later. To bad for you you're not willing to do anything to obtain your goal.
You should start doing less hours in order to make time for your job hunt. Yes, your managers will probably frown upon for doing so, but it would probably take a few weeks of you not doing crazy overtime for them to decide to do something major like firing you. So you're really buying yourself some time. I don't think you would be fired for doing a few weeks of "non-crazy" work hours.
If you live in Ontario, this site is great. Just don't go stealing the good jobs, as I'm still looking too!
Religion for nerds. Stuff that really matters
Second: There are two ways out... Hook up with a temp agency to pay the bills and quit or save enough cash to cover a couple months of bills and quit. Either way, move toward quitting. Others have mentioned vacation/sick time but these may lead to "absenteeism" and burnt bridges.
Now that you're in your new job, communicate your workload better so you don't get piled on again. If you notice, the people who get away with doing nothing amplify the weight of their workload (whine). Also, ask about "mandatory overtime" and such in future interviews.
US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
Personal. Time.
Use the "system" to your advantage. Slack off until they lay you off then draw un-employment until you find something else. I've actually had 3 of my friends do this. It worked for 2 of them. One of them had to pickup a job at BestBuy to pay the bills after he could no longer draw unemployment. Eventually he found a better job though.
If you are expected to work long hours in a tech job, I would likely assume that they would recognize your online name. Posting this to slashdot might not have been a great idea as they know that you are both slacking off and looking for a new job.
You have to back away from that requirement to give yourself the needed maneuvering room to refocus your efforts on something more palatable. It takes a lot less than most believe to lead a decent life. Choose your vector first before you start accelerating so hard in that chosen direction - inertia makes it hard to change direction in job and life style, just like it does in physics.
If it is really sucking the life out of you to the point that it is threatening your mental health, save up then quit. Live off of the nest egg until you find another job.
The only problem with this is that there is no telling how large that nest egg will need to be to hold you over until you find the next job.
But I'd say your happiness and mental health are more important than being short on cash for a relatively short period of time.
Faith is a willingness to accept something w/o complete proof and to act on it. Reason allows you to correct that faith.
You just graduated from college yet you sound as drained as someone nearing retirement. Snap out of it, get your resume out there, pound pavement: you don't work 24*7.
Or... are you in over your head? It's one thing to get your degree, another to apply the theory to practical use.
Whatever happens, do not quit your job yet. It's easier to get a job while you already have one. A potential employer may consider you a hothead if you tell them you quit your job with nothing else lined up.
Trolling is a art,
You had time to write a three paragraph question for Ask Slashdot, and, seemingly, edit and correct it for spelling and grammar. Even if that was all you had time to do that day, you could write another couple of paragraphs the next day. Pretty soon you will have a job application. Sending it is a matter of a few minutes at a post office on the way to/from work. Presumably you will have time to read the responses here. You could use that time to peruse job listings.
You have vacation time. Use it for interviews or other needed travel.
Use what time you have, in other words. You won't be applying for as many jobs of course, but on the other hand you are making a living so there's not the same urgency either.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
It matters, because the "cut back on your lifestyle" posts are meaningless if he "has" to work overtime.
Network. Email everyone you can (and by can, I mean everyone who won't get mad at you for eamiling them that you need work). Try getting into some networking groups like Friendster and LinkedIn.com.
Get a Blog and start writing in it, and include the fact that your looking for work and your trials and tribulations etc. It worked wonders for Odd Todd and who knows who might read your blog. Of course to advertise you're gonna have to read/post in others blogs. Do so wisely.
Most importantly -- believe that you can make it happen and you will. But the key is you have to make it happen -- otherwise it won't.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm
Quite often additional job responsibilities are given not because of evil intent of the management, but because employee is eager to take stuff on in hope of a raise or promotion. This is especially true of new employees just out of college. Make things mechanical. Plan how much time your current workload will take, and once there's an attempt to add something on ask what part of the stuff you currently do your manager wants to "load balance" to someone else. If he has no intent to do so, warn him that things will take longer and some things may not be done.
You will end up working a little overtime (just to recoup the time you spend browsing slashdot at work), but things will become controllable. Working more than 10 hours a day and more than 5 days a week is unsustainable. So it only makes sense to do so if you need or want to do it temporarily, to, say, meet a deadline or to get rich in a startup. Pre-deadline crunches shouldn't last more than two weeks, though. If it's more - your management is doing something wrong and you should simply refuse to come in on the weekend or stay late.
if you read /. you have time to search for work offers (no interviews yet). Find few interesting/promising job offers (let's pick a number - like 5 or 10). When you found all of them, then the race begins. Simultaneously send 10 copies of your CV, when you get first few replies, and appointments for interview, then immediatly quit your current job. Now you have time for interviews. It will take some time (without a job) until you will attend all the intervies. Then pick the best one. And later if you don't like it - start over.
yeah I know, that's the most optimistic scenario, assuming that you can quit immediately. That depends on your contract, etc. If you can't quit immediately, then wait with sending all CVs until your nearest deadline comes close. When it passes, and your current work is finished (and you start to receive appointments for interviews), then you quit.
quite radical, but if you stay too long in that downright spiral, then, well, it will be too late.
#
#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
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If you're working a lot of overtime, that should be bringing in some significant money. Bank it. Then when you've saved enough to get you by for a few months, quit. Or use it as your personal "unemployment insurance", as you simply stop with the overtime, scale back to a more reasonable work schedule, and take a chance that they'll fire you for it.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
the amount of time needed to write, proofread, edit, proofread
You must be new here.
Listen, I've been through this... if you've been promoted, and are assuming more responsiblity, etc. NOW!!! Hear me loud and clear, NOW!! is the time to demand for a raise. Tech. work is surprisingly very close to prostitution industry. You're basically a good hoe right now. Recognize it, and firmly ask for a raise. Have a decent figure in mind. 10-20%, more? Whatever you want. Dude, if I've learned one thing, asking never hurts. You've only got money to gain. Rather than looking for another job right now, you probably have a better chance of getting money out of these people. I was able to demand a 50% rate increase, after I got promoted, and I knew I was the shit. Now what made it easy asking for the raise and demanding it? I was ready to walk away from the job, and I knew I could at least get equal or beter pay and better working hours. So recognize you can walk away from this and lose 2-4 weeks, and find something equal and better. To effectively job search from what I've learned, you need the time. This is a whole other subject... After you know you can walk away, you get guts. Free confidence, b/c you've got nothing to lose. And you tell the manager you've got the best relation with (he counts on you like crack): I love this company, the people, etc. I don't want to go, but given everything I've demonstrated (have a list ready), I deserve appropriate compensation. (seem pissed). State a figure (i'd go high, 25%+), and then just shut up and wait for him to respond. Worst case I gaurantee: you'll get a minimal raise. Best case: you find out how afraid they are of losing you, they count on you, you're part of momentum on the project, etc. you get what you ask for. Go for it.
Well, it will if you tell the new employers that you left because you couldnt handle the pressure. Its best to make up something more light and fluffy. Me for example left a position after 3 months because it sucked ass. So i put in my 2 wks notice and for a reason i put "conflict of interest". Well, it was kinda that too. The boss's wife kept coming in and giving me back rubs while im trying to program (it was a small place). This would have been ok but she was older than my grandma and i was bearly 18.
Menya zovut Shnur
What's stopping you from taking some time off? Will your current employer hunt you down if you take an afternoon off? What's the sick policy like?
I wasn't working all that much overtime, essentially just ten hour days. What I did was to _aggressively_ cut back my spending so I could have a "quit my job" fund. This took a number of months, at least partly due to previous monetary issues (did contract work, didn't get paid...) But eventually, I had about three to four months of living expenses saved up, not counting accrued vacation time. That gave me enough to be comfortable but you may want more.
I saw a t.v. show that taught you how to cut back your spending. It mentioned things like not eating lunch at restaurants (brown-bag it), not going out to the movies, etc. If you need to be told this, you really don't know how to save. You may want to rent a movie from time to time and I don't advise cutting off your telephone line to save money. But forget going out for lunch. Avoid fast-food altogether. No movie theatres. Don't buy a new computer. Basically, cut your spending down to the absolute minimum you can and still keep from going crazy. I also started OVERPAYING my bills (heat, electricity, etc.) so that I was soon a month or so ahead. That helps when you finally do quit your job. You can be late on all your bills by at least a month before they complain.
In the end, I got a job interview due in large part to a mailing list I frequent. The job interview happened after working hours and everything came together. You may need to take a vacation day or even a sick day, though. I don't like taking sick days for anything other than legitimate illness but it sounds like you need a mental health day anyway.
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
Webmail - do all communication, interview scheduling, resume sending ect. through it (since you can access anywhere).
Cellphone - Anywhere access again. Keep it on vibrate, though. You can take a "dinner break" from your horendous hours and streach it out into a phone interview in your car if the weather isn't too bad.
"Emergencies" - If you have an afternoon interview, show up for a few hours and leave due to a family emergency. Come up with a good one. The point here is to use sick time so that they have to pay out your vacation in cold hard cash once you get out of there.
Employers own you far less than you even think you owe them. They have no honor, no loyalty, and no guilt. "It's just business" is what they say when layoffs go around and you have to remember that "It's just business" when you quit their ass for something (hopefully) better.
One last thing: Always leave a one line resignation letter in classic business letter format (google it) that says, "Effective as of (two weeks from today's date) I resign my position as (insert job title) with (insert company name)". It's two weeks customary polite notice, you've put it in writing, and there's nothing either fluffy or derogitory to come back at you.
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
I was in a similar position prior to my current job (yay). What I would do was have a *good* cover letter and resume saved in my web email, and every time they had me work (unpaid) overtime, I'd spend an additional 25-50% of that time to send out resumes. I had a new job within six weeks.
Basically, you have to accept that it's going to suck, and you're going to be spending another 5-10 hours a week on top of your work week just sending out applications.
Also, I had to take some unpaid time off to go to interviews. After the second morning that I couldn't come in, my boss kind of caught on and wouldn't let me use any comp time. Fortunately, that third unpaid morning off was the one that landed me a job.
Nothing is more satisfying than knowing that it was your boss's making you work overtime that landed you a new job.
Causation can cause correlation
Don't worry about the 1 year thing. I know three people under the age of 50 who have kept the same job for more than three years at a time (and they all work for government). If I was hiring, I'd consider 10 years in the previous job more of a detriment than 1 year.
As for finding the next job? Make sure all of your friends/family and their friends/family know you are looking for a job. It's so much easier to get a job when someone recommends you than it is to get your resume noticed replying to an ad. When you do get the interview, a doctor's appointment is a great way to get out for an afternoon (just start complaining about something a few days before)
As a recent college grad what bills do you have that lock you into a dead-end job? If they are anything more then the basics (car, student loan, apt) then I would give up the broadband, cable, going out to eat, buying cool toys for a while and figure out how to live on a tight budget. If you are that trapped in a job then there are other issues then the job pulling at your life.
As one poster alluded to, if you can slashdot, you can look for jobs on Monster, Dice, Career builder, etc. Do you have a plan for looking? like setting a goal of sending out x number of resumes a day or week. Are you willing to relocate? It may improve your chances
If you have family, quit the killer job, get something part time and start hitting the pavement or ether. The only thing keeping you locked in this "horrible" job is you. If it is that bad, get out now otherwise, stay in, build time, learn how to time manage so that maybe you are not working so much overtime, and sometimes just say no. The worst they'll do is fire you and in todays climate, it could be either that or downsized. Take care of Self first for no job is worth an early start to unhappiness.
Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
Honestly... what the hell does this have to do with technology, science, or anything pertinent to this site? This is the most retarded post I've ever seen on /. (no offense to the poster.) Dude, go talk to your parents about this kind of thing. Slashdotters are losers anyways (me included); why would you want advice from us? More importantly though, how did this question make it to the homepage? One will never know...
If you're working overtime, you'd better be getting paid overtime. If not, get out now. If so, save up. You can last out a few months, and in that time you should be able to save up enough to buffer yourself long enough to find another position.
Paying your dues and working your way up the ladder is for suckers.
If you're confident in your abilities, then just quit. A job like that will be easy to find again.
Workin' double shifts, not gettin' any sleep.
Workin' double shifts and I'm not gettin' any sleep.
Tryin' to find a day to spend for myself.
Try to find a day to do somethin' for my health.
Had a little money in my pocket for a minute.
Had a little money in my pocket now it's gone.
Did it all myself and now my choices are few.
Wouldn't look so easy, if you only knew.
Responsibility! Responsibility!
Old people fall. Young people spring. Rich people summer and winter.
I was in a similar position: I dropped out of grad school after a year (not doing well), and got a job in a totally unrelated field. I only had two choices, both of which involve saving money beforehand: after saving money, live cheaply while looking for another job (live out of your car, eat peanut butter sandwhiches) or move in with your parents. I took the second option.
My solution was to save enough cash to survive for 6 months at my current standard of living and resign. Looking full time, you should allow yourself 6 months to find a job that suits your needs.
Burn Hollywood Burn
You can probably deduct the cost of looking for a new job.p a/new_2005/JOBHUNTINGCOSTS/
http://www.boston.com/business/taxes/articles/mac
Just yesterday I got notice of winning a very good Linux Admin position with an up and coming company. How did I get in touch with them? I didn't; they contacted me.
I had a good (to fairly good) resume posted on monster.com. They found it, contacted me last week, and I officially start on Monday.
About time off: you have to ask yourself if that "sacrifice" is worth a new job... at possibly a worse company.
On the other hand, if you have a good grasp on what your talents are (very important) and are a go-getter, then go find out what company(s) you would like to work for and for how much and pursue them and let them know how much they a missing out by not hiring you yesterday!
With that, you need to know what you know and be honest about what you don't know.
Use the weekend a bit wiser and prioritize. What is more important? Chores? or a new job?
Give your two weeks, go on unemployment and go fullbore at hunting. Compromising on how you approach the hunt will produce a compromised job. If you have a nestegg or a SO to lean on, even better. Before you drop, calculate your expenses and cut off any utils or expenses you don't need (no reason to use your unemployment to pay the last month of digital cable if you don't need it). Also that two-weeks is dead man walking time; going to interviews should be easy when they aren't dropping new projects on you.
Exhaust all the avenues given above, its good advice. But don't hinder yourself by thinking you must jump from job to job without ever getting your feet wet.
What is music when you despise all sound?
... I was working 125 hour weeks to meet a deadline that was mandated upon me. Unfortunately the job was salaried so I was only getting payed for about 1/4 of that. It was entry level so it wasn't even payed well to begin with at the normal rate.
Next project came along, they were really happy with my work and wanted me to take on more responsibility and larger projects. I layed down some new ground rules. Hourly pay and I got a x5 pay increase.
If they're giving you more responsibility and work, then it's clear they're happy with what you were doing before. Ask for them to help your paycheck catch-up with their opinions of you.
Simple answer. They can't actually force you to work overtime. It's a myth that a lot of corporate types are all too happy to let continue... but legally, they can't force you to work overtime, and you can sue for wrongful dismissal if they fire you for not doing it. And they know it.
So just stop working overtime. Or cut back on it. It won't take you too long to update your resume, and then maybe an hour a day to check the job sources and send out 2 or 3 resumes a day. And when you get an interview, take a sick or vacation day.
If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
Webmail - do all communication, interview scheduling, resume sending ect. through it (since you can access anywhere).
Just make sure your email address isn't manwhore653@gmail.com
Religion for nerds. Stuff that really matters
Once you get into that kind of downward spiral, how do you find another job?
Honestly...quit. No job is worth that much stress.
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!"
Best move I did 7 years ago.
Take time off when you want too, do the things that interest you.
And the kicker, get paid double what every other 9-5 Joe is getting.
I'm serious. Quit.
Now. You're young. You'll learn---life isn't about this shit. Life is about life, not about these jobs. Take a pay cut, whatever you have to do, but don't let a job take away your life. It's not worth it. This sounds illogical, but trust me, it's not. You'll like back in 10 years and wish you had taken this advice.
[FromTheMorning]
In most instances, it's OK to search at work. Unless you're worried that your employer is going to fire you if they catch you, there's no ethical or legal issues with searching for a job at work.
Head hunters (if you're into that) are fine with calling you at work. Let me rephrase that. If you represent potential income, Head Hunters would be fine with calling you in an opium den.
Even many direct employers are fine with this. Most understand that you are expected to work overtime and that's where they can reach you, at your current employer. You will probably have to answer a few questions about why you're leaving, but otherwise most companies are pretty cool with it.
I'm speaking from experience, and I'm sure anecdotally there will be one or two out there who have opposite experiences. But I will say that 100% of the time that I've searched for a new job, I've had an exisiting job, that required overtime, and potential employers had to call me at work. Not one ever complained.
And the cool thing is, even if you don't get caught, word will get around, and your employer might get scared and start making counter offers. I used to love this, because I never went searching for a new job until I was completely disgusted and had it with my current employer, and no amount of "counters" would change my mind. So it was fun, once I made up my mind to leave, to see them suddenly start asking things like "Is there any thing we can do for you to ensure that you're happy here?" LOL.
-- "In order to have power, I must be taken seriously." -Mojo Jojo
Who ever said you need a "job"? No way am I giving my time over to those capitalist pigs, even if I have to resort to living behind a dumpster and eating left-over popcorn at the movie theater!
But seriously, I have been going two years without a full time job while I work on what I really want to do for a living...I do temp work and "odd" jobs on the side...finances can get a bit tight sometimes but I think that the payoff of working on something I enjoy will be worth what I put myself through right now.
If you are the only one in your dept. working this hard, and you have an understanding boss, let him know, and maybe you can get some relief, like getting some of the work moved to others who aren't working as hard.
Also, I'm a little confused about your overtime situation. If you are paid for overtime, then you are non-exempt. If you do not get paid for overtime, you are exempt. (As in: Exempt from overtime laws.)
If everybody at your office is working this hard, then yeah, it's time to take some "flex" time during the day to do at least a phone interview. If they aren't paying you by the hour, then it is perfectly right for you to do so. (You aren't physically chained to your desk, are you?) If they are paying by the hour, just charge them for less OT.
Remember, you work to live, not the other way around.
SirWired
The job I had that was similiar to yours paid over $80k a year, but like you said was "sucking the life out of me...a lot of overtime in a high-stress, tight deadline job". It was actually as an IT worker for a Fortune 100 financial company. The reason I went to Wall Street in the first place was because the dot-coms were crashing after the spring 2000 stock decline. Things got progressively worse in the space of a year there (layoffs, and since I was a contractor, a small salary cut), and in the midst of all the other BS I had it. But the job market was dead which is what gave them the power to do that. After two or so interviews they knew what I was looking for another job and said either I say that I'll stay there or I'd be fired. So I just quit. At the time I had so much in the bank, that I preferred the idea of a clean break and recommendation over them telling future employers I had been fired. Of course this meant I got no unemployment. A month later 9/11 happened and the slump in New York City got even worse.
One piece of advice I'd give is try to be choosy in your interviews. You have to be. In this respect, headhunters are a liability, as they want you to interview for any job you're anywhere near qualified for.
Just quitting would probably be a bad idea. Employers like hearing that you're currently employed. An unemployed person looking for a job gives them cause for concern.
get any 40-hour a week job you can get to shore up the short-term while you find a job you like. work starbucks, barnes and noble, etc, whatever.
MORTAR COMBAT!
I'll just assume that somebody cares about what I have to say:
I dropped out of community college a few years back because of lack of motivation (laziness?). I then worked a shit job for a year and went back to college. Dropped out again, shit! Well now I'm going to try the online college route at Athabasca and work at the same time. I guess my point (if there is one), is that you shouldn't give up. Eventually you'll find something you like, and you'll probably thank yourself in 30 years.
Religion for nerds. Stuff that really matters
I've basically been promoted in work load and responsibilities -- and have even taken on another job role, IN ADDITION to my current one. All of this without a raise in pay, or new title.
If I was you, I'd be learning to say no at some point. If you're the sort of person who'll take on extra work in order to make a good impression, then the same thing will happen to you again and again in your future jobs.
Sometimes saying no will earn you respect, because it'll make your boss realize that you have a life and that you're not there to be taken advantage of. If they're the sort to make your life harder because you're sticking up for yourself, then you probably don't want to work for them anyway, so you've got nothing to lose by trying.
Take a look at this, it makes the point better than I can: http://comicarchive.com/dilbert/index.php?Y=2005&M =09&D=17
...on many online job searching sites you can set up "searches" which will examine all new postings for the criteria you desire and email them to you each day. This is a great way to casually search for opportunities. When you see one you are real interested in, you apply online. If they like you, you talk to them. If they are interested in bringing you in for an interview, you take a day or a half day off. No employer is going to deny your need for a physical or eye doctors appointment.
"Give up hope, dreams are for suckers."
You would be surprised at how much the attitude that you bring with you affects what you are doing, how you feel about it, and your chances for future work. If you came in every day, trying your best, at the end of this, something better will come along. If you slack, or have a bad attitude, this will not only seem longer, more drudgerous, and sucky, it will show, and the impressions that others have of you will be negative, and you are less likely to get a good recommendation or get moved to something better.
Voice of experience. I am an old guy in the IT world, and have always managed to find better and better jobs along the way.
Good luck, and make us Slashdotters proud of you!
I definitely sympathize with you since I've been in your shoes. Here's what I would have dome differently 10 years ago if I had the experience. Any/all of these should lead to more time to look for work and/or an escape from the hellish grind you find yourself in:
/stress leave. If you can't sleep because you're working so hard, or work is desrupting your otherwise normal life, seriously think about this option. Your medical plan covers this and if you don't have insurance, then you can approach this from a workplace health & safety perspective / unemployment insurance. A hunk of every one of your paychecks goes to fund these goverment programs, so USE THEM. There is nothing wrong with this, and it doesn't mean you're 'weak'.
If you are working so hard that you are stressed to the breaking point, see your physician or psychologist, with the possibility of receiving medical clearance to go on sick leave
Recognize that your employer needs you more than you need them. I say this because if you are filling two roles for the price of one, your company probably cannot do without you. While this is tougher for people to do when they have less experience (aren't wise to 'normal' employee / employer expectations), know that you can establish boundaries and expectations. Advise your manager that you will simply not be able to fulfil the duties of BOTH positions and they're going to have to pick the ONE that you will be responsible for. If they won't play ball, tell them you intend to resign. They will do anything to keep a person that does as much work as you, including cutting your hours substantially.
Realize that salary does not mean 'you will complete as much work as we tell you to, even if it means sleeping under your desk'. There are labor laws which govern this type of employee abuse. Spend a few hours calling local government agencies and find out what your rights are. Better yet, consult a labor lawyer. He may actually be able to extract money for all the extra hours you put in. Plus, the company basically can't fire you after this, because that getting fired for attempting to protect yourself from abusive employment practices is called 'wrongful dismissal', and is worth even more money to you in a lawsuit.
All in all, finally I can just tell you to look out for yourself first. Your company isn't looking out for you, so YOU HAVE TO DO IT. I would suspect that you have a strong work ethic, and want to do good for the company and it's clients, but at the end of the day, are you reaping the profits? NO. So always look out for #1.
...you would have figured out that you could just call out sick, and you wouldn't have such a crappy job.
Lord_Dweomer asks: "As a recent college grad, I took a job to pay the bills, but soon realized that it would end up sucking the life out of me. I work a lot of overtime in a high-stress, tight deadline job. Once you get into that kind of downward spiral, how do you find another job?"
Leverage your time and connections.
All of those co-worker friends you have, all of those business cards you've been stockpiling at all of those work meetings? They're not just interesting pieces of paper used to convey notes and/or passwords. :) If you're on good terms with those folk, maybe it's time to take 5-10 minutes out of your lunch break to ring them up?
Alot of people I know post their resumes up on resume sites like Craigslist or to Monster/Dice/hotjobs/etc. Takes 15-30 minutes to post, then check on it once every few days. Not alot of time.
Another option is to have automated searches run for you through one of the aforementioned job sites.
Yet another option would be to get in touch with people through a business networking service like jigsaw.
"All my free time, during the week, is completely non-existent, and the weekends are needed to take care of chores, and preserve my mental health.
Okay... what do you do at lunch? Are you taking a lunch? Taking a lunch helps preserve sanity. Not to mention keeping things all legal in the employment law books.
Are potential employers typically sensitive to the fact that I may not be able to interview during the week or during standard work hours?
Depends on the employer and on your value to them. Personally, when I had a job interview, I made sure that the time we agreed upon was convenient to them, myself, and my current employer. Ie, during lunch breaks, at the start or end of day, or I take a personal day off.
The fact of the matter is, you are looking for a new job. If the new job is worthwhile to you, then you will need to invest something into getting that job. That means taking a day off sometimes.
Also, will having left here after a year seem like a real black mark on my resume?
Nope. Especially with the recent job losses in the market, it will seem pretty typical. If you are in the tech field, staying for around 1 to 2 years is, I think, around average if you are fairly well established at the company you are working for. 2+ years is if you are working towards a goal within the company. Less than that, you are building up your resume with projects, completed goals, and exposure to new technologies.
The other issue is that if the workplace doesn't work out, you really aren't obligated to stay. What's the point unless you have no other choice? If you are interviewing, you are engaging other choices.
My reasons for leaving, aside from the overtime (I am non-exempt), would be that I've basically been promoted in work load and responsibilities -- and have even taken on another job role, IN ADDITION to my current one. All of this without a raise in pay, or new title.
You really need to look at what you want here. If you want to get compensated for over-time, then you are looking at switching to an hourly wage. In which case, joining a consultant group (Taos, Kforce, ManPower, etc) would be a good way to go. If you just want a higher salary, but don't want to go hourly, then interviewing at a medium to larger sized business is the way to go. Small/Medium businesses and dot coms tend to have a small core of people who work extremely hard and long hours. Many of them are salaried. They are willing to do this because they probably either have stock options or don't feel the effort to switch jobs is good for them.
Whatever the reason, you need to look at your priorities. Want time left over for yourself, your family, your life, etc? Then add it to your want/need list. Want more money, add it onto the list as well. Which one comes first? Decide that before going into the interview.
Winged Power Photography
If you stop performing personal hygiene, you will earn about one hour or more per day. With that in mind, you would then have more time to perform leisure activities such as job hunting, etc. Once you start to stink and get real funky, your employer may request you to go home and take care of yourself. Be sure to schedule that mandated time off with an interview. Tip: Shower before the interview and not after. I tell my boss my odor is a medical condition and use it to go to "medical" appointments at my convenience (just kidding). But hey, use what works best for you.
I'm basically in a similar situation. I just finished university about a year and a half ago, I managed to get an intermediate position right out of school. So monday -> friday it was all about work, I didn't get home till about 9:30pm every night and even today I usually don't get home till 8:30 or 9.. And for a time I didn't care I was making oodles of money, I just wanted my life back! But that's the way it is in this industry when you first start out.
:) I guess here's to trying my best to retire early!
The one thing that I find strange is the fact you have been given this additional responsibility but no raise or job promotion. It can be looked at in 2 different ways
1. They're taking advantage of your skills and since your so young they feel it's ok
2. HR is dragging their feet and you'll get that promotion/raise in a few months
Also once you hit 1 year if your company is big enough you can apply to internal positions.
Now my suggestion is to make your pain be known to your manager. It's not like your being a cry baby if your hours reflect your being overworked.. The one thing my manager stressed to me over the last year or so is if you don't ask it's not going to be given.. After working for a year in my current group I did find the balls to say "hey you know what, you guys depend on me way to much, what happens if I jump to this other group" . Well after this discussion I recieved a promotion in title to a Sr. position and a 15% raise. I think it was a fair trade considering I'm now responsible for the infrastructure connecting 4000+ pc's across the country which in turn is attached to 50,000, and I'm only 25. But, it took hard work and half my head of hair
MrJynxx
Since you are being given more responsibility your boss apparently likes what you are doing. Have a frank discussion about what you are feeling and what you want to get out of the job. Do you want X more dollars? Does money not matter and instead you just want less responsibility? People often make the mistake of not telling their boss that they are unhappy or thinking about leaving. Just be clear that you would prefer to stay with the company but you are planning to start looking if you can't work things out.
Every agency or tech company I worked with had management and techs available who'd do weekend interviews if it was the only time some one could get together. Far more often an evening or morning phone call was arranged.
Even if you're working 12 hours a day and commuting an hour each way, that's still only 14 hours. That leaves you 2-3 hours per workday with 7-8 hours of sleep. Your choice, but arranging an interview call might be something to consider doing with that time.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Call in sick like the rest of us.
I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
I recommend taking the first thing that comes along your way that is relatively better. Don't try to find the perfect job, just get out of the terrible one. The longer you wait the harder it is to get out. If you do a good job somewhere you will almost always get a semi-serious offer or 2. look at those and find one that you can accept or that will at least give you a year or so to job hunt.
I do security
This should help by relieving some of the stress and give you a few ideas. I was recently in the same situation. I hated my job and just didn't have time or energy to look for another one. To top it off, none of the recruiters would even talk to me because my employer was one of their "big clients." I just started giving attitude, showing up late and leaving early, expressing my displeasure in the position, and what do you know? My position was eliminated and I got a nice fat package to find another job!
Welcome to Corporate America. We are all facing the same issues. More responsibilities and time requirements for the same pay. It really doesn't change no matter who you work for (with a few exceptions). The only real way to do anything lasting about this is to take you career into your own hands. You can either try to start a consulting business, or try to work something from home on the side. Even if you can only spare an hour or two a week, working a home based business can reap great rewards if you apply consistent effort. A real home business won't change your outcome overnight, but it is possible. Here is a good link to a home based business site. Hope This Helps.
Maybe you need a Moment of Zen.
1) In the amount of time it took you to write your ask /. post, you could have, at a minimum, scanned Monster.com for your locale. Figure out who is hiring what jobs. In my area, it's a lot of consulting firms.
/. and post here... interview? Ask for a 4pm and leave early.
2) Call those firms, link up with the recruiter (they're usually assigned somehow)... establish relationships and networks.
3) Use the network. Let them know who you are, what you do, what you're good at, and what you want to make $$.
4) As for the time issue, as has been said already, you found time to read
I told my boss what a spinless weasel he was. He fired me. :)
Now, I'm sitting on unemployment, relaxing, being picky about what jobs I want. A few dozen headhunters are looking for me, and submitted me for some low-stress jobs, low hour jobs.
If they want me to work some ungodly amount of hours, 60+, I tell them I want a huge amount of money. I figure if one hires me, I bank it until my next burnout, and go live overseas on some beach.
Americans work too many hours, not enough vacation, just so we think we can live a good life. I think a good life would be not tired all day, get to see my friends and family, and still afford to pay the mortgage. Crazy thoughts like that.......
I got out of college and was working 12-14 hour days (exempt, which means I didn't get one cent for that overtime) without lunch for a big investment house. I worked in that position for 6 months and interviewed more times during those 6 months than I had in the year I'd been job searching before then (I'd had a job then too, just much lower stress and hours). It's all in how badly you want it. If it's really as bad as you say, you'll find time. You'll take the time off to interview and make it up on the weekend or something. If you do it right, the company won't even know that you're interviewing elsewhere. I know that my former employer never saw it coming when I handed in my notice and walked out.
Do you track your spending and try to stick to a budget? If not, you might be shocked to see how much better you can do if you try. Make some sacrifices and save money. Money in the bank gives you far more freedom.
Then you can quit and and use your savings as a cushion.
Interesting fact: The personal savings rate in the US has fallen so low that the only time it was lower was during the Great Depression. This does not bode well for our long term economic health.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." - Lord Acton
Only 14 hours a day? You must have been there part time.
Fight Spammers!
I solved this many years ago.
Simply start taking your lunch at 11am.
No excuses.
Take lunch at 11 and always have a 'lunch date'. Any company that
is asking you to work through lunch is breaking the law and you can easily
pressure them into letting you take your required 1 hour lunch.
You will smile through the BS 12pm mandatory meetings (as in nice try a--holes).
After a period of time you will be able to schedule interviews for 11
or so. After 1/2hr at an interview you should know if you are wasting
your time. If not then be late back from lunch. Sorry! Traffic you know!
Much of this goes along with, I am sorry to say, growing a set of balls.
Or in the worst case:
Question: "Where were you?"
Answer: "I was in the bathroom".
Q: "Why didn't you answer your page"
A: "I did not have a free hand" (Battery was dead, out of range etc).
OMG now you have an attitude problem. Not exactly.
If you continue to pleasantly do your job and never express
any anger you will be fine.
BTW same goes for you mandatory 4:30PM Dinner break.
"I have a dinner appointment with my dad, he is going in for surgery"
"I am meeting my SO's parent for Dinner"
Etc. They won't panic as long as you come back.
8:30AM interviews work also.
One last thing. Leave your jacket on your chair. Your jacket is there, you
are there (even if no one can find you).
If you're paying a headhunter, you got burned. Headhunters are hired by the big companies to fill the slots, you dolt. And actually, I went from headhunter to headhunter during the dot-com thing and made out like a fucking bandit. If I ever got back into the field, I wouldn't bother with knocking on doors individually, again. That's for schmucks, and recent graduates who don't know better.
I don't respond to AC's.
Well, you have time to hit /., so there's obviously *some* spare time in your day. Learn to be more efficient in your use of time. Spend time on Lifehacker and 43folders instead of Slashdot.
Then find a job you want to go for, and go for it. If you need to take time off for an interview, do it. Right now you're sacrificing long-term interests for short term crises. That's not smart.
I'd quit if I had a choice, but I really need the money, yet I'm unable to look for a new job because of lack of time. How am I supposed to job hunt under these circumstances?"
Quit being a little bitch. You ran up your cards, you bought the car, went to college, or some other expenditure that you're now dealing with. Don't pay the money back. Fuck your credit and start over. Do what is required to do to really do what you want to do. If you don't do it you'll regret that more than fucking up your credit for a couple years.
> I'd quit if I had a choice, but I really need the money, yet I'm unable to look
> for a new job because of lack of time.
If you are working overtime every week (not just an hour or two but considerable overtime, as you seem to imply) and can't afford to take any time off, your budget is out of control. Tighten it.
Are you paying for cable TV? The way you describe your free time quota, it sounds like you don't have _time_ to watch TV, and if you did have time, you could just as well read slashdot, right? Right, drop the cable, save twenty bucks a month, or more.
Now, about food... if you're anything like typical, a little discipline can trim 30% off your food budget without even *messing* with sales or coupons, and without going totally spartan. (Somebody said beans and rice... but you don't necessarily have to go that extreme, just cut out the processed foods and deli stuff.)
You're not renting movies at the video store, are you? Find a public library, and drop them off on time even if you haven't had a chance to watch them. (You can always borrow them again, which costs you nothing, versus late fees which don't cost nothing, typically.)
Besides food, gas, clothes, and regular payments (loans, rent/mortgage, &c), what else are you buying? Don't. You don't need it. Even the stuff you think you need, you don't need it. Speaking of that: never carry money, unless you have a specific need to spend it. Seriously. Your wallet? Keep your ID in it, but leave the money at home. If the thing you're thinking of buying isn't worth planning ahead to buy, it's not worth spending the money. Don't carry a checkbook either, except when you have a specific need to write a check for a specific and unavoidable purpose. Credit cards? Get rid of them, or lock them in a box in the attic and keep the key under something heavy in the basement. Credit cards make it too darned convenient to part with your money.
Basically, what you're doing here, is you're buying your sanity back instead of all the less important things you've _been_ spending your money on. When you've paid off your credit card depts and saved up three months' expenses, then you can decide whether to quit your job and look for a different one (which, if they're still forcing large amounts of unwanted overtime down your throat, will probably be a good idea at that point).
Yes, you *can* pay off your debts and save money on what you're making. I paid off my college loans in four years, and most of that was while I was working fast food and making minimum wage; during the same timeframe I also saved up for and bought a $2000 computer. You just have to spend less than you make. Prioritize the things your money goes into, with the most important ones at the top of the list, and then draw a line through the middle of the list at the point where the stuff above the line adds up to about 80% of your income. Cut off the bottom part of the list, everything below the line.
I say 80%, not 90%, because you will have unexpected things come up that you didn't anticipate, but which are important enough to make the top part of the list. If you plan to spend 90% of your money, you end up saving little or nothing. Plan to spend 80%, and you can actually save 10%. Paying off debts counts as a form of saving and indeed is the preferred form if the debt has higher interest than you can make on a savings account. Low-interest debts are less urgent to pay off, but paying them off still counts as saving, because it improves your net worth. So, when I say, "save 10%", I mean, "use 10% to pay off debts and/or put in savings". If your savings account goes past about six months' expenses, then there are other forms of savings you should look into (mutual funds...), but I get the impression that's not something you have to worry about just yet.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
I'm only half kidding, but try "long lunches" for the occasional interview. It's kind of a running joke in the office sometimes when someone we know wants out ASAP suddenly starts taking "long lunches" twice a week, because we all know they're busy interviewing. Honestly if you're always at work, then you'll probably have to find time AT WORK to look for a new job. We all have our own ways of fitting personal things into our work schedules, and ways of hiding the fact that we're perusing job listings at our current job (or faxing out resumes using the office fax machine). And yet it seems like most people end up doing it at some point.
I don't know if this reply will get moderated any higher than anyone elses or will ever be seen but anyone, but I'd like to say that I know what it feels like to be overwhelmed, want a way out, and feel like I can't find a way to get out.
There's not an easy way to offer suggestions to a problem like this, and i wish that the rest of the commentors weren't so big on saying things like "welcome to the real world" and "nope, no way out" and actually offer some SUGGESTIONS.
If i were in that situation (and I will be shortly), is I would find a way to FEEL like I am not so overwhelmed. If you make specific ordered lists of the things you have to do each day, you can get things done sooner (like chores, or work tasks etc) and with better organization and management of time, you may find you have a few hours a night before you sleep to get on Monster.com or write or revise a resume or start searching for a new job. You can also grab a newspaper during your lunch break at work and scan ads, highlight them and stick them in your pocket before you go back to work. Every day, find a way to do some small thing related to searching for a new job instead of trying to find a large chunk of time to devote to searching.
Obviously, you'll never be able to find a large amount of time to dedicate to this if you're as busy as you say. The best solution is to manage what time you have more efficiently.
Another alternative could be to talk to your boss and discuss the pressure/stress you are under and ask if there is a way that you can delegate some of your responsibilities to others, or explain that your productivity would go up if you were able to do so. (Don't let on that you're looking for another job) Perhaps go to a supervisor instead first, or ask the advice of co-workers as to how to approach your boss or supervisor about the fact that you are completely overwhelmed and about to go insane.
just be smart about it. If finding a new job is a priority, come up with strategies for finding a few minutes or a half an hour EVERY DAY to searching for a new job. I would imagine that "searching-for-new-job" time would help your sanity anyway, so you're killing two birds with one stone if you designate this time also as self-sanity time.
I wore a suit one day and left mid-day to 'get my car inspected', which was actually the truth. When I got back to the office I got a $7,000 raise from my boss. She was frantically making phone calls while I was out, trying to get immediate authorization for the money.
Playing double-or-nothing is a great way to get a raise or get canned, but in my experience, if you're on-the-ball you'll get the raise. I know my workplace would be in a world of pain if I left, just because I know a little about how everything works.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
No, I'm New Here
...and I'm sure your dream job will find you. At least that's what I heard.
If you can read this sig, you're too close.
You'll just have to keep working your days and nights, and then one day, you'll die.
But you should die knowing you gave it your best.
<bart
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Step 1. Look at your financial situation. If you have a car payment and a high rent and carry a credit card balance each month then you are well and truly screwed. You could have bought a used junker and rented a hole in the wall but you didn't and now your ass is pwnd. Suck it up and the next time you have a choice between cheap and nice, choose cheap.
And Craig if you're reading this: A dog is nice but a pet rock is cheap.
Step 2. Okay, so your finances are reasonable. You have little if any debt and your core living expenses don't eat your entire paycheck. Cut your spending. Cut it to the bone. Dump the cable TV. Skip the chips at the grocery store. Don't even bother visiting Best Buy. You need to put enough money in the bank to pay your core expenses for about six months.
Step 3. Okay, so you have enough money to live off of for six months. Quit. Give two weeks notice set to expire in the first week of the next month and walk away. Note that the two weeks notice is very important. Your next employer probably won't call your last one, but wouldn't it suck if you missed out on a great job because they did? Leaving shortly after the start of the month is important too. You don't want to show a large gap on your resume but nobody counts the days.
Step 4. Sleep. This'll take about two weeks. Kick back, let your whiskers grow, shower if the smell gets too bad but mostly relax and recover.
Step 5. Take a two week vacation. Somewhere dirt cheap 'cause this'll put you a month in to your six months of saved money. Heck, go visit some relatives. That's always cheap. It doesn't really matter where you go as long as its away.
Step 6. Come back fresh and start looking for jobs. Apply for anything that looks vaguely interesting. If you're lucky, 1 in 50 will respond with interest. Don't worry about the response rate. Just keep applying for jobs. Go on interviews and if it looks like a suck job, turn it down. You have five months to find a job. Don't sweat it.
Step 7. Accept one of the jobs. Hopefully you found one you liked, but if you ran out of time then take what you can get and go back to step 2. Do make sure you take the new job before the money in the bank runs out. You absolutely don't want to go in to debt in the hopes of holding out for the right job. That'll just land you back at step 1.
Your mileage may vary, but this worked great for me.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
You'll never have time. You'll have to make time.
1. Someone mentioned this before but I'll say it again: use a headhunter agency. This is the quickest and the surest way to get a job quickly.
2. Don't worry about being only 1 year in this position. This is pretty much the norm in the entry level positions, especially in your line of work, that is why they're piling work on, they know you're going to leave soon and they want to get the most out of you.
3. Burn a vacation day, or a sick day, or at least take a half day. Sleep in and then put in the rest of the time into cleaning up your resume and writing a decent cover letter.
4. Be prepared to burn vacation days to interview, or take unpaid leave. Tell your work this is a personal commitment or you need it off for health reasons but you won't get interviews if you can't get there during the normal week office hours.
5. Talk to your manager. Tell them you're almost burnt out. If they're reasonable they'll give you some slack for a week or two. Perfect time to rest up and work on your resume. If not... well, you really don't want to work there then.
If you have problems with working long hours, consider working for a non-profit. I took a position with a non profit, and I've gotta tell you that 35 hr weeks (9-5 days with 1hr unpaid lunch, flexible start time from 8am - 10am) was AWSOME. It allowed me to develop my skills outside of the workplace, get a life, rest and actually have leisure time to enjoy. I took a pay cut, but I count a 15% pay cut for a 50% less hours worth it.
TANSTAAFL
About a year and a half ago I was in a similar situation. It was hard, very hard, overworked and stressed. Then one of my colegues left for a month, and I had to take over some of his projects. And that was it! I have submited the resume on a Friday night, 1:30 am. For the phone interviu I have explained where I was available (morning before 9 or lunch time). Passed that one, I was able to come up with some reasons to disapear for half a day (dentist, way for somebody at airport, moving friend, broken pipe at home, whatever). In two weeks I was gone. And now I am way better. So, think you are cornered, and move your ass. If the house is burning, get out. Forget Slashdot, forget XBox or whatever. Find the door and exit!
Keep you chin up! At least you've seen that the job is sucking the life out of you. This is a good thing. Network with other people as much as you can, even if it is only a minute or two every day.
Keep paying the bills and remind yourself that you've only got "up" to go in your job satisfaction. Every day, send out a resume, talk to someone at another company.
A little each day! I wish the best of luck to you.
A Passionate Independent Musician
I work a lot of overtime in a high-stress, tight deadline job. Once you get into that kind of downward spiral, how do you find another job?"
You must work in a call center. Have you thought about joining the Army? I hear they are looking volunteers. Since you have a degree, you could go for officer candidate school. It's not like you'd go and fight in an unpopular war and work in a high-stress environment.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
What this in Dilbert recently? 'Accidentally' leaving a coworker's resume in the copy machine so that the boss can find it and assume that the person was looking for another job.
That leaves you 2-3 hours per workday
You forgot eating, bathing, brushing your teeth, flossing, masturbating, and putting in/taking out contact lenses if you wear them.
Call in sick ...
My Web Site - www.ocean-liners.com
The real problem here is that you "need the money", so you have a difficult time juggling resources like your time. The one thing that you can control is the amount of money that you spend. You need to be able to create an excess of cash. Once you have that you have options. One of the things is to figure out if you can get "layed off". This may not be so hard, employers who burn through employees also seem to lay off employees at a pretty regular clip. If you have saved money you can push back on overtime. Pushing back on overtime gives you time to look for a job.
That gives you time, money and savings. Then you can start looking for a job.
If you're that seriously strapped for time that you can't even devote, say, 2 hours a week to e-mailing and phoning prospective companies and recruiters, then hire a maid. It's actually fairly cheap. I just priced a local service on their web site, and if I have them come clean my 2-bedroom apartment every other week, it's $59 each time they come. That's not too tough to fit in most budgets.
If they come do that, it should save you a fair amount of time, since they will vacuum, straighten up your clutter, clean your kitchen sink, load your dishwasher, clean the bathroom, dust, take out the trash, etc. Whatever amount of time it saves, you can spend that looking for a job.
By the way, while it is best to really look hard and explore all your options, it is possible to get a new job just by chipping away at the task. It might take you a year to do it if you can't devote much time, but eventually you'll get something.
Also, on a somewhat related note, it wouldn't be such a horrible idea to just stay where you are for another year. It looks better not to switch jobs. It does suck to be given more work without increased pay or even a better title, but this is one of those things that is really pretty common considering the fact that ideally it should never happen. The grass may or may not be greener on the other side.
ask for an application right when you order lunch. That way you won't have to wait in the line twice.
Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
Read the subject. I am sure you have some sort of sick time. Use it. Diarrhea is always a good solid non-doctor excuse requiring reason. "Damn I think I had some bad tacos last night, last time I buy them from a gas station at 2am", the boss laughs, you laugh and spend the day interviewing.
For you (and recent grads), uh, you're currently learning what we all old-timers learned when we were young--it's called time management--it's an important skill and there's no quick hack or quick receipe to it. Time management says you can't do everything, sleep is actually a nice thing and some sacrifices maybe needed. It's all about priorities: if finding a job is a higher priority, then that will pretty much dictate whether you should work the extra 4 hours, do the team lunch with the manager, or hit all the brainstorming/social meetings, etc... Time management in college is much different, even if you worked in college.
This is your boss, get back to work!
They will just take and take and never give.. Seriously, life is too short to waste it in jobs that suck you dry and don't offer anything in return.. When they ask you to work late, tell them you have tickets to the symphony or something.. Don't let them take over your life or they won't ever realize when it's too much.
What I did was save up 6 months of salary and then quit. I had the same problem. I prepared ahead fo time with a resume and perspective employers. Now I'm good to go. It's a risky move, but if you have the credentials to swing it, then that may be one option.
Talk to people and just do it. It sounds like you don't really know what you want.
Take sick days. If you're looking to leave, why do you care if you're taking days off. While I'm not saying get yourself fired, there's no reason you can't let your performance suffer a bit to find a better position.
I know my previous employer was suspicious that I had so many "dentist appointments" in the week or so before I handing in my resignation . . .
You need to learn to say no. Set a personal limit for your work life and stick to it. You are an employee not an owner, right? When they give you an new assignment say "which other task should I delay to do this one?"
If they are keeping you this busy they won't fire you. They are either trying to get you to quit or they are clueless as to the impact.
Say "I can't work this Saturday because I'm . . . whatever"
Say "So can I take off wednesday if I work the weekend"
One of two things will happen. They'll fire you, but trust me if they do you had no future with company anyway.
or they see the light and you get a life back.
You are not a machine. Don't act like one.
Try sending an email to your boss like this: Since I had to work last 3 weekends I would like to take off the following week. If he doesn't respond in a positive manner start refsuing to work weekends
Stop whining.... do some real work. The rest of us do... Welcome to the real world after college... It is not all lazing around at the frat house and delivering a few pizzas on the weekend while your parents pay your credit card, cell phone, tuition, etc etc...
You have to look for a job during your vacation time then. Have the interviews lined up in advance.
An alternative (and I have done this before) is to do interviews on your lunch hour.
Another alternative (and I have also done this) is to just go THIS PLACE SUX! and walk out, then you have plenty of time to go look. Being instantly unemployed and in dire need of cash *soon* is a great inducement to not fool around and actually go find another job.
Another alternative (again,I have also done this) is just go to the boss and make your case, tell them you are burnt out, fried, that something needs to change, then run whatever changes you need by him. That's only if you really want to stay there of course, and be prepared for a compromise solution. Remember, they are making money off of you somehow, if they weren't, you would have been canned already. Modern corps are not shy about firing people if they don't make money for them, so that is about your only bargaining position of note and relevance.
Last one, just make a plan and go into business for yourself. That's the most fun, most risky,and most likely to have a very good payback if you are successful. And if it doesn't work the first time, try another one, eventually you'll hit on something that "works".
Also, will having left here after a year seem like a real black mark on my resume?
It won't be a black mark. A year is actually a pretty good run considering the volatility of the job market-- and actually, if you can move from one job to another job quickly (With a few weeks for personal time or whatever), it's a big plus for your resume.
Although sometimes "worked at company X for 1 year" isn't as impressive "worked at company X for 2 (or more) years".
More importantly, if a job is sucking the life out of you, it's a sure path to burnout and will stall your career. You need to leave and try something new. Don't live so you can work. Work so you can live.
The job market has been incredibly volatile for the last several years. It's very common to see someone work at Company X for a year, Company Y for a year, and then Company Z for a year. That's the way the job market has been.
If a hiring manager is bothered by something like that, it's probably because they have been hiding in a box for the last 5 years and have an unrealistic view of the world. You'll run into fun other "Thinking inside the box" situations like "Linux? MySQL? Apache? But we don't support freeware!" and "But we NEED rlogin. And why would they want OUR passwords?". It probably isn't worth working for them when there are many other good opportunities out there.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
It's called paying your dues. Once you have some experience you can move but you need to put in the shitty time before you can land the job that doesn't suck.
I've definitely been in your position.
First of all, it takes time to find a job/company you really like. But don't give up! Don't give in! I went through several jobs until landing a job AND company that I can truly say I love. Nothing is perfect, but it's magnitudes better than any other job/company I've been at.
It's going to take time. Expect to spend several hours of week. Sometimes your effort may seem fruitless, but that's because this is a difficult mission. It's easy to find bad companies or jobs that you don't want.
I suppose this doesn't really help you seeing that you are incredibly busy. I suppose I'm assuming that you can find a couple hours on the weekend to devote to some online job searching. The best thing you can do is keep at it!
Shameless plug: Try out this awesome meta-job search engine (the company I'm currently at): http://www.simplyhired.com/
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
Is the company big enough to have some kind of personnel manual? It likely has an "hours of operation" paragraph. Adhere to it. Not rigidly. Just start packing up when the day is over and go home if there isn't anyone standing over you with an urgent task. If your company has comp time or overtime policy, be sure to make use of it. If it does not, do a little research into what the law requires in your locale. In my opinion, being unemployed and stone broke is better than being abused. As a rhetorical gesture, it probably helps if you can arrive a few minutes before the boss a few times a week.
+5 Spot-On
Tell them that you've got a bad case of the Poo' Lil' Me Sniffles.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Quit Your Bitching. Be happy that you have a job. I'm sure this is probably going to be considered a redundant post but that's because you're complaining about something that most of us have to deal with throughout our lives. If you really didn't like it as much as you say you do, then you'd make it your first freakin' priority to get a new job. When you get home at night, spend an hour to fix up your resume. Once you've done that, then spend an hour each night or day looking for new job postings. Tell your friends, family members, and any acquaintances that you're looking for a job; remember it's not what you know but who you know that lands you the job most of the time. Most importantly, keep a positive perspective on your future.
First, make the deadline. Then take vacation time you have earned, and find another job. Then give the employer adequate notice. One of the remarkable things is how everyone feels employers should be ethical to employees, but fewer talk about how employees should be considerate of employers. Most employers with tight deadlines are struggling to make it..... Managers, including me, were born lazy, so if deadlines are tightly managed it is usually because they need to be for the company to make it, not because the employer has a lot of choice about it.
Oh dear, you can probably tell that I have switched from being an employee to an employer.;-)
If you can't handle a few extra hours, then you should go get a fucking pussy job like an electrician or some other union job for idiots. My guess is that you missed your calling.....
Which is why they make you work overtime. Can't have employees wantin' to LEAVE, now CAN WE?!
(not until we get a nice fat bonus for downsizing or outsourcing them...)
Well, what are your hours during the week? I'm sure if you work a morning shift like I'm about to start doing, you'll get off at a certain time. Maybe 8:00 or 9:00 to 5:00. Just set up your interview after you get off from work one day. Give yourself enough time to go home and change clothes and get ready in general, etc. Just explain to the place you're trying to get a job at and I'm sure there are always ways to flex talking to them about a job around your schedule. It's always worked for me and I've been through a good bit of jobs. Good luck.
"Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher
Pull sick days for interviews, evenings and weekends for updating CV and spamming companies/job agencies.
karem
When all is said and done, nothing changes...
Cheapen up your lifestyle (get a roommate, eat out less, get rid of cable tv, etc, etc...) then quit. Once you quit, you'll have all the time in the world to search for a job. And while you hunt, live off of the money you saved from being cheap. Even consider temping to bring in a few extra bucks while you hunt. In theory, with all the overtime you've been doing and the lack of off-time to spend that money, you should already be able to accomplish this.
I did something similar myself. My first job out of college landed me back in good ol' so cal, so I moved back in with my parents (talk about your cheap rent... doesn't get much better!). After I left that job, I moved back to my college town and was able to spend 3 months vacationing/job hunting, just living off of savings and maybe 10 hours of temp work a week. Good luck!
Get this What Color Is Your Parachute book, which is quite good and goes into much detail on all things you've talked about here.
Works for me!
IANAL, but imagine a beowulf cluster of in Soviet Russia all your belong are base to us welcoming the new SCO overlords.
Recent College Grad Complains That Work Is Hard -- Film At 11.
life sucking...gmafb.
Try a little Corn Husker's Lotion for those chapped wringing hands.
Firstly, realise that you will cause real damage to yourself and it takes a long time to recover - is that worth the money? If you work weekends you have reasonable cause to take a days' rest during the week - use that 'rest'.
Secondly, if you have decided to look around it means you have mentally already left (lesson 1 of staff management - missed by many idiot managers). So you're going to feel even worse now - get on with finding a job.
Having no time is an illusion - it's your choice.
Insert
Don't whine about it. Just do it. I work 50-60 hours per week, and I do 12-15 credit hours at school to get my degree. Any free time I have goes to my family (wife and three kids). Don't tell me about no free time. I just switched jobs a couple of months ago (one that was 65-70 hours per week).
How did I do it? I decided that I was going to do it. I took time off of work, if necessary. Of course, I only interviewed for one job that I really liked, and got it.
Politics, Life, and More on my Aspiring for the Future
Quit the slashdot addiction and try Monster.com or Jobserve.com. Seriously though - perhaps it your time might be better spending it not posting comments on slashdot http://slashdot.org/~Lord_Dweomer (well over 3000 posts, not bad going mate)
;)
. Instead switch your Slashdot time for job hunting time. I can talk though im in a similar position
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
You can't fight The Man, he's too strong. You'll have to stay put. However, there are some extremely effective strategies for showing everyone that The Man don't own you.
1) A Dilbert desk calendar
2) A Tatoo
sincerely,
The Man
Cliff, It's all about how you look at the challenge! I work in the technology arena and like you I worked numerous hours and never really had a life, outside of here. My personal life and health were going straight downhill. I had to think outside the box! Then someone showed me an opportunity in which I could work towards getting some of my life back. I was not sure about it at first, however what was said was that there was an opportunity out there that would allow you to continue doing what you are doing but on the side become a part of a team and basically work on building my own business (other teams) and become financially free. They would show me how the team would work with me, I could put in as much time as I had to develop a full time income by putting in only 1-2 hours a week. It's all about the team. You see it's better to get 1% of a 100 peoples effort than 100% of 1 persons efforts. Anyway take it from me, I have found an Internet business that within 4-5 years I will be doing it full time and will no longer work for anyone but me! I know it's kinda unusual post, and an unusual view point, but its working for me! Albert Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". Have an awesome day!
I think only one of the above applies
All my free time, during the week, is completely non-existent, and the weekends are needed to take care of chores, and preserve my mental health.
Just replace the things you currently do on your free time and start looking for jobs. Nothing will be more satisfying than ending the stress on your mental health.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Simply put... make the time.
Do web and newpaper searches with email responses really late in the evening when you get home.
Use vacation if possible for interviews.
However some employers are really jerks and will do anything to deny vacation time.
So pull an "office space" (must see movie), just don't show up to work on the day of an interview, and if work asks why you were gone respond that you thought your boss had gotten your vacation request memo. Schedule your time wisely, so stack up the interviews on the no-show day (you will not be able to pull this off often). I know, it is almost inconceivable for a dedicated, hardworking, get-the-job-done person as yourself, but it might be the only way to leave other than simply quitting without another job lined up.
Setup a monster account. Get an amail account that supports SSL, or setup your own email server and ssh into your own
email server and check for mail. Try to get your propective employers to do a pre-interview over the phone during lunch or whatever break you have, This way you won't waste your time going on an interview for another dead end job. If you are, and they are interested in taking it further, schedule
an interview and call in sick.
I was in a situation like that working for the huge worldwide leader in ATMs and Financial equipment called NCR. They were working me like a slave and expected overtime in excess of 20+ hours of it a week. I made some time to contact a head hunter and told them what I wanted to do and they got me a dream job with large employer on the top 100 list of best places to work in the US. One needs to make time for themselves even in a job like that. You will bend under pressure, and if the employer is bending the rules for overworking you then you should bend the use of time to accomodate searching for a new job. I have gotten myself out of few bad jobs by taking time during my work day to sneak in a few phone calls and emails. Don't feel guilty because that employer sure isn't feeling guilty about overworking you!
And 23 comments just in the last 5 days. I'm guessing that you spend on average at least 1h per day here on /.
That's 7h a week, which is more than enough to look for a job. Perhaps you need to revise your priorities.
1. There is only one person that can and will hire anyone for a new position in a company and that is the hiring executive or manager or department head [titles change and are not the same in all organizations] of the group. NOTE: The HR depart does not hire anyone; the HR department only acts as a information transfer agent who supply information to the hiring manager.
2. Ascertain what it is you CAN do and what it is you WANT to do. Most often the CAN and WANT are not the same so it is up to you to make them the same. This can be done by either changing the CAN or the WANT.
3. Ascertain what the prospective employer DOES and what it assumed NEEDS are. Again most likely what a company DOES is not the same as what it NEEDS. From this then ascertain what it is YOU can do to solve existing issues and problems created by the conflict between a company ACTIONS and NEEDS.
4. Formulate a plan of attack. From your assessment of what YOU can do to solve the prospective employers pressing issues formulate a plan or presentation of what you can do to solve one or two of these issues. Don't worry you will not be able to solve more than one or two issues but be very though in the ones you can solve.
5. Ascertain who it is in the prospective employer that is the HIRING AUTHORITY [INDIVIDUAL] for the group for which you would like to work. This may take quite a bit of detective work.
6. Make a presentation to the HIRING INDIVIDUAL in paper by means of a letter of what it is that you can do to solve one or two of that individuals pressing problems. DO NOT CALL. DO NOT SEND ANY THING TO HR. DO NOT SEND E-MAIL. INCLUDE YOUR E_MAIL ADDRESS IN YOUR LETTR ALONG WITH YOUR CELL PHONE NUMBER.
The final comments are not part of the procedure but are very relevant.
1. Make sure your paper work - language, spelling, et is perfect.
2. Make a 1 to 2 minute introductory speech which you practice and have perfect of who you are and what you want which you will end by inquiring what the perspective employer would like to know about you. If the speech is longer than 2 to 3 minutes you WILL loose the opportunity as you will NOT be answering the questions the prospective employer wants answered but simply mouthing off with irrelevant bull. Translation: This is a strong indicator that YOU do not know what YOU want or that YOU are trying to force YOUR agenda onto the prospective employer. This presentation should indicate that you WILL DO THE JOB as YOU are A) motivated, B) enthusiastic about the job, C) a self starter, and D) corporative. In any decent firm interviews are about a candidates desire to do the job and weather this person fits into the firm; this is the WILL DO side. Interviews come about only after the firm has ascertained that one CAN DO the job by their having the correct back ground, experience and credentials.
Executive Recruiter
reading a book. One of the best is "What Color is Your Parachute?". You should be able to get it at the library, or any major bookstore. Be careful though to not be seen reading it at work. Management will probably be familiar with it too.
As an alternative, have you tried talking to your manager about the hours? It sounds like you are suffering from burnout. It happens when the hours get long (60 hours a week is not sustainable.) Your boss should know that. Sounds like your workgroup needs more staff. The overtime may be a temporary thing. As you are non-exempt, you should be paid time and a half for it. (US rules) if you're not getting paid overtime, then it's time to move on.
As an employer, I look at how many jobs you have had over time. if you stay less than 2 years, warning flags go up. That's usually over a five year average, though. If it's your first job, that is understandable. there may just not have been a good fit. It's also understandable if you are a job shopper (if you work through a temp agency).
Anyway, first you should work on having a good resume. Do not be 'cutsy' or use the Word Template without modification. Be honest, include a reason for leaving. The reason should not be longer than 10 words. Don't be critical of your current employer, but be honest.
Second, network. Join a professional organization in your field, volunteer. Get to know people in your office who are leaving. Get to know the ones who are staying too. Most jobs are found by word of mouth. Almost all of the best ones are.
thirdly, get to be the best at doing your job in the office. Even if you don't know it, your competitors do have some indication of who is doing the work and what kind of workers they are. Also, you are going to want to be able to use your current boss as a reference in the future. You want to be remembered as a good worker and a good person.
fourth, study any company you do get an offer from. Are you going from the frying pan into the fire? will you like the work? Is it a fit? As you are now employed, you can afford to be choosy. Remember that we employers like getting people who are currently working for somebody else. It means they will be more likely to be good workers. Somebody else already sifted out the duds.
Finally, don't burn bridges. It may feel good for a few minutes, but it will continue to harm you for many years. Be a stellar employee right up to the minute you last walk out the door. You have an ethical responsibility to do your job well for as long as you are being paid.
Good luck. It's a scary journey, but a worthwhile one in the end.
This is not an article or a serious question worth posting on slashdot. Obviously the poster is a big whiner and can't figure out that he controls the circumstances of his employment. I doubt they'll fire him for knocking off early a few days a month to do interviews. The problem isn't so much the stupidity of the question but the fact that someone found it to be a worthy story to post. Digg would have moderated the crap out of this in 10 seconds, but I'll bet it will hang around on slashdot forever if not at least 10 hours.
Come on slashdot.... we can do better.
Gustave Flaubert "To be stupid, selfish, and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity
Not very long ago I was job hunting while working insane hours. I would always give recruiters and potential employers my cell phone number, and if I got a call duck into a spare conference room to chat. If things progressed, I would always insist of a phone interview before a face to face to see if there was mutual interest, which I could usually schedule during a lunch hour. For face to face interviews (which were rare) I would take personal days, or try and schedule them early in the morning or late in the afternoon. It helps if you have a "Flexible" work schedule. If you work in an office where people stroll in at 10:00 am or 11:00 am, scheduling an 8:00 am interview means you can still get to your regular job on time.
So you say that your days are spent working and your weekends are needed to "Preserve your mental health" and "do chores". Well... I'm in that situation. Among all my friends, I'm the lucky one. Some work in jobs that require them to put in hours saturday and sunday. They work around 95 hours a week of really hard work. Working 60 or 70 during the week is nothing man. I'm a recent college grad and I'm programming in pretty bad conditions. Learn to suck it up and get everything you can out of your job. You're just an apprentice now, there's no reason to go looking for another job. Learn your trade and when you're good and tough and not complaining about working hard, then go find yourself something else. And it's easy... just apply to monster or dice.com, it takes hardly 6 hours a week, which you can squeeze into your "mental health" weekends. Don't be a wuss, look around, those guys working hard and not complaining are going to go into the next interview with a better attitude.
do you have a resume loaded with all your experience ready? if so, spend the time to load it onto the following sites:
Monster
hot jobs
Dice
Career Builder
and www.yourlocalnewspaper.com
Don't worry about your one year at a company so far, people will understand it was your first job, you got your experience and 'want to find somewhere to build your career' (or at least that's a line that used to work).
Unless you're a lame NFL Head Coach who's original team fired your a$$, no one is going to come looking to give you a job. Stay up late one night, get yourself online and order and extra shot of caffeine in the AM.
I forgot what I wanted to say, but honestly, it was important.
No matter what your field, temping while looking for a well-paying permanent, full-time job is the way to go. You continue to get experience and training in your desired field while at the same time earning a decent paycheck. As a temp, there are fewer issues with you leaving to go to a full-time job; you are rarely indespensable. Temp agencies love it when you get the job you wanted because it makes them look good. They will work with you to schedule your contracts around interviews. Also, as a temp there is usually little to no need for you to take your work home at night, leaving evenings free to job hunt.
Since leaving a more-than-full-time position that payed practically nothing, I have been temping for just over six months. Before I started temping, I couldn't get an interview at the company I wanted to work for for the life of me. Now, with the additional skills and varied experience I have from temping, I have scored myself an interview next week. I don't even have to miss work for the interview, as I am between contracts for a few days. Win/win.
Here is my anecdotal evidence:
I applied for a job with a software company some time ago. I was asking for 60 peanuts (peanuts is the currency of my parables) and in fact the advertisment stated that they were offering 65 peanuts.
I went through 3 rounds of interviews, I liked the company, then found my charming and capable (of course) and then we sat dwon to talk peanuts, I mean, money.
Knowing that they were offering 65 peanuts and keeping in mind I wanted 60 peanuts initially I asked for 62 peanuts (unsalted). They looked at me in a combination of anger, disbelief, confussion. Then, with her voice trembling my prospective boss (a readheaded babe worth of a role in a King Kong movie) said "you are a greedy bastard!".
I, feeling aggravated, asked why were they insulting me. Then they told me that asking 12 peanuts more than what they were offering was not on. All of the sudden I realized what had happened, and it just took a couple of phone calls to confirm it: the agency had told me they were offering more (far more) than what they were actually offering, they told the company I was expecting far less than what I was actually expecting, and the agency cynics hoped that somehow we would meet somewhere in between (I mean, boss to be was gorgeous, but still).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Time to get real sick and take some time off...
etc....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
you don't. I'm stuck in that rut, and I've basically given up. go corporate america.
brian botkiller "Condensing fact from the vapor of nuance" - Neal Stephenson, Snow Crash
One of the best things things to do for getting rid of overload is to dump the decision on the head of your manager.
When he brings you an extra task (that would require you to work overtime) put him in an or-or situation and make him decide on something to leave behind;
SayIt is an elegant way of enforcing to your manager the fact that you won't work overtime (or that at least you don't expect to do it on a regular basis).
Tie two birds together: although they have four wings, they cannot fly. (The blind man)
It's not rocket science. Quit and find something better
Labour may kill thuosends of innocent people in Iraq, but at least they keep people back honme in gainful employment (which explains why the murderous bastards got reelected).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Holy cow. If I had borrowed my way through college I would have had needed to assume another identity and grow a mustache to escape that debt. There would have been no way for me to pay that off.
The only reason that I have a job now is because I had gotten a job in college doing operations with an as400. Knowing people on the inside was the only way for me to apply for an internship, a graduation requirement. I wouldn't have graduated if I hadn't been working through college.
Nobody gives a damn about your skills. If you have any aptitude at all I can train you to be an as400 monkey in a week. But the only reason I had gotten the job after college was the experience I had working in college.
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
A new low. This is the dumbest question I've seen posted to Slashdot yet. I can't believe this shit made it into an article.
I probably should be posting as an AC here, but who knows, you may want to follow up with emails. What to do when you're worked into the ground without so much as a thank-you?
Some background first: My wife got her MBA, while working full-time, in a 2-year program. During her last year, she was not only working (for a company whose name I can never divulge), but asked to fly all over the globe (Asia, Latin America) in her role, and was putting in weekends -- time she should have been using for the degree. (She still managed to graduate with honors, by the way.)
Her management team was so fraught with cronyism, however, and so dictatorial that she could never get past their bullying. She never did crack the glass ceiling there, even after trying every strategy in the book to succeed, including writing up new business plans. The plans were in fact implemented, but she never received credit for them.
Instead, her manager told her that the object of employment at this company was to do your job, take orders, and retire. (Nice place, huh?)
It got worse: During a celebratory lunch for her group, her skip-level manager never even acknowledged that she received her MBA from a top-flight B-school. He instead chose to heap accolades on a colleague (who, incidentally, was and is a lazy sack of shit).
She's scarred to this day. She has a new job, and it's pretty nice, but she's still wondering what she really wants to do with her life. Can you blame her?
The moral of the story: No matter how hard you try, there are some management teams that will, for whatever reason, ignore or denigrate you. If you find yourself in such a position, you do two things:
Hope this helps. Good luck with whatever decision you make..
--- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
Work all the overtime you can, and put all that extra money in the bank. Live cheap for a while.
Once you've got enough in the bank, start leaving on time every day. Just plain flat ignore requests to stay late. Eventually they'll fire you, and you'll live off your savings while you look for another job full-time.
Any potential employer who doesn't understand your frustration at being death-marched is probably somebody you don't want to work for anyway, so the fact that you left your previous employment before you had a new job won't hurt you.
I mean, you do three things. And nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
--- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
One important thing that many folks learn on the job it to make their coworkers aware of resource limits. I can't do 200%. So stop doing two people's jobs, stop working long hours, and pressure your employer for compensation for your extra effort. I doubt anyone would fault you for being "let go" from a job because your employer has unrealistic expectations. Most likely as a recent grad, you are young and you do have more free time than you realize, so a couple extra hours won't hurt now and then. Those of us who have a family with small children can attest that, though worthwhile, there isn't time for extracuricular work, chores, or free time.
Set you limits, and take time for yourself. Besides, what do you care if your sweatshop boss gets upset if you leave the office for two-three hours for a job interview?
I am a big fan of working for yourself. (I'm religious, so I would also add working for God in there, too.) This means structuring your own work as much as you can so you won't have people breathing down your neck. This means doing research on your own and taking initiative to lead your own work and contribute to the company. In my job, I live with whatever constraints I have to live with and restructure everything else according to my liking. Remember, your boss isn't your teacher or God; what they say is meant to make themselves money, not help you do your job better. Stand up for yourself and read about what can make you a better worker. You shouldn't let yourself be treated like a slave.
But hey, I'm leaving IT to become a doctor, so what do I know?
I too am a developer. What is your motivation to work so long and so hard? Are you working for a startup with tons of options? Are your coworkers your heartfelt friends? Often, in that kind of environment where everyone's making a grab for the brass ring sometimes you have to settle for your work life and personal life becoming one and the same. Still, though, if you're heart's not in it, it's likely not going to carry you along for the ride anyway.
If you're not making a buttload of money and/or options, then it's time to have a discussion with your boss. The way the market is right now in our field, you don't have to put up with this, especially if you're willing to relocate for a new job. Tell the boss you feel overloaded and you can't do the 8+ thing on a regular basis anymore. Tell him you'll be planning your schedule and your projects appropriately from now on. Do not let management impose deadlines on you--it's an agreement, not a mandate. When my boss gives me something to do, I come up with the timeline--if they try to foist a timeline on me, then I tell them ok, but I'll have to neglect all other work...in other words, nothing else moves until this is done. Then, if the timeline is still too aggressive, I point that out. If they're not willing to hear it, I drop it, work as hard as I can on it 8 hours/day until it is done. In the companies where a reasonable schedule is frowned upon, whenever a deadline slips I write an email to my boss summarizing the status reports I've been sending (see below) and explaining that I feel the project slipped due to mismanagement, not having enough resources devoted to the task. (Always be very professional when impugning management...never petty, never angry, etc.)
The trick is to use status reports, and be honest in those reports. The worse your boss is, the more status reports you give him, up to one every day (or more, if you're putting out a fire). If you feel the quality is low because of time pressure, say so as soon as you realize it. Give the boss a list of tasks in those status reports you need to finish to accomplish what you're given to do, and show each time you send him an update what you've finished. (The scale of the tasks should fit the frequency of the reports.) They don't need to be long--just a sentence or two, but make sure the subject line says "Status Report - mm/dd/yyyy" or something similar.
This works two ways--first, it lays out what you're doing and where you are, the boss can never claim to have been surprised by it because he always knows where you are, and second, you keep him updated on your obstacles (if you spent the afternoon noodling around with your revision control system because something wasn't working, you say you didn't get anything done for four hours and why in your status report). It establishes a written record of what's going on so the boss can't surprise you at the 6-month review--if that boss has a problem with you, there's ample opportunity for him to deal with it. I did this with my first job out of college. At my 6-month review, my boss tried to give me a bad review. I scheduled a meeting with him and his boss, and armed with a digest of the reports I'd been sending, I said, look, I think I have a legitimate complaint here--if I was doing such a bad job, how come I only hear about it when it's too late for me to correct it? If I was leaving too early and not accomplishing any of my tasks on a reasonable timeline, why didn't he tell me as it was happening? (Always in a professional, non-confrontational way, yadda yadda.)
If this approach doesn't work, then you're done at that place. If you're a developer, you're making decent money for a single guy, so ultimately the ball is in your court. You should have some cash banked (you don't have time to spend it, right?). If you give it this last shot and it doesn't work, then just start looking. Schedule interviews with as much regard for company time as they have for your personal time, and then take that time off and do the interviews. I'd star
but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
Stays the same right? Interesting thought question, does the U.S.S. Enterprise displace the same amount of water on the Moon as it does on Earth? I would think so since displacement is a mass equation and not a weight equation, but I have plenty of so called self-taught geniuses who think otherwise.
Use jobs sites, lots of them. Set up agents on Monster, Dice, CareerBuilder, etc. Each night when you get home, spend some time checking those agents and applying for jobs.
Use a recruiter that does not charge you a fee. Most recruiting companies today make their money from the hiring company. Call recruiters during your lunch break and ask up front how they are paid. If they want a fee from you or (worst I've ever heard) half of your first year's salary at the new job, then leave. If they want your business, they'll do something about it.
Before serving as the TI Manager, I regularly worked 10 hours days. I'm one of those people that believe hard work will get you somewhere, and if you do a good job, surely someone will notice and reward you. UTTER BS, at least at this company. I'm not to the point of refusing projects when my plate is already full, but I do not let anything other than emergencies keep me from leaving by 6:30 every evening. Because I'm in infrastructure, evenings and weekend work are par for the course, but often that's planned and I can work my personal life around it.
I too want something better. After reading http://www.paulgraham.com/love.html , I did a bit of soul searching. I'm definitely not happy in IT after 22 years. Computers used to be fun to me. Now even tinkering with mine at home feels like work. I have a need to help people, and I think I'm supposed to be some kind of healer. I know I'd be happy if I knew my work helped someone else. I haven't taken action yet, but I know of opportunities for massage therapy and possibly chiropractic care. In order to have time to work on this, I'll need a less demanding job....
My interview is next Wednesday. Wish me luck.
I think others have summed it up well here: take care of yourself, say "no" when warranted, and make the time to make a change.
Just take some minutes to program automated searchs in websites such as Monster, Hotjobs, Infojobs...
Tutorial: Ubuntu
Depends. For an object to float it must displace a volume of water equivalent to its weight, but of a smaller volume that it - ie it has a density less than 1. If the cinderblock sinks then the water level will drop, however if it floats then the water level will stay the same (I don't know about the density of cinderblocks so can't state either way definitely)
To see this effect use a bowl of water, a saucer and some fairly large object with a density greater than 1. When on the saucer it will displace the volume of water equivalent to its weight (unless that is such that it is larger than the volume of the sauce and the water overflows and floods the saucer); however, when in the water it will displace a volume of water equivalent to its volume, which will be less than the volume of water of equal weight to it; and thus the level of water in the bowl will drop.
No question about it, the USS Enterprise displaces more water on earth than on the moon as there isn't any water on the moon for it to displace...
I had the exact same issue with uparts.com i was working 10+ hours a day plus had a 2 hour bus ride there, and a 2 hour bus ride back. and my boss constantly told me i should stay more hours. I was litterally in the habbit of wake up, catch the bus, goto work, catch the bus home, eat dinner, goto sleep repeat.... day in and day out... mon-fri, then he started asking me to come in on weekends.... This was my first 'real job' in that it wasnt some shit retail store like circuit city... it was a career based job. he low balled the hell out of me on the salary too. i think it was 1150 a month before taxes.
But anywaay... i know your pain.. my solution really wasnt the correct one. my girlfriends friend's place needed another programmer, so i said screw it... (i got a car by now, after months of this) told my boss that my car wouldnt start,and that id get there as soon as i could. went in for the interview, got low balled again... 7.50 an hour, but i took it just cause i'd have a life again. then i just stopped talking to my ex boss, blocked him on my IM client, and wouldnt answer his calls. started my new job after a few days of well deserved 'rest'.
long story short, it turned out to be one of the best moves i have ever made.... in the past 2 years i have been with the same boss, and i make better $$ not great.. but enough to survive. but, if i ever need a new job... i really cant use either as a reference.
my advice to you... www.monster.com www.jobseekusa.com www.indeed.com www.craigslist.com (be warned... everyone low balls here) post your resume, spend an hour every night applying to jobs. if your in the southern california area, drop me an email.... i know of a few places that are desperatly looking for people.
Do NOT goto this URL http://www.forthesims.com
I understand your problem and my advice is to use websites like LinkedIn.com to create a "support network" of friends and co-workers. Then, you may be able to find new opportunities and make new connections.
he's exempt.
Perhaps OpenSkills.org would be of interest to you.
We are a non-profit association set up to help people make the most of their Skills. In many ways what we do is like other on-line resume sites, but that's only one part of what we are. People from 14 countries have signed up so far.
Anyway, have a look. You may find OpenSkills useful.
(I'm one of the founders and the current chairman of the board, BTW)
He was funny, as as he suggests , FUCK OFF.
/.ing fuckheads have no sense of humor.
You dont sign in as AC, you dumb shit, he goes AC because
Corporate ladders = fuckoffery. If you do your own business or make real money, sell shit or do real shit for a company, then you make moolah. Otherwise, fuckoff.
You are most likely a company FUCKOFF because you get defensive when you hear people describing your very own fuckoffery.
FUCK OFF
Lord Tsarkon has Spoken.
Sorry for the levity, not being insensitive. I am on line because I just got pulled out of a restful sleep on a Saturday AM to handle an emergency at work. Hey its part of the job, and I knew it when I accepted the offer. We hire a lot of folks through various contracting agencies who shall remain nameless. I just conducted an extended, and finally successful, search for a qualified candidate for addition to my team. I scanned many resumes mailed via email by reps from these agencies and conducted many screening interviews of potential candidates via telephone. Lots of these folks were obviously ducking into the john or into the parking lot (or scheduling interviews during their lunch)to make this call. This required no missed work on the interviewee's part, and a minimum of effort. The fact that a candidate had the potential of being such a good match for the job that we brought him in for a second, face to face, interview would have been a good clue to him that it was worth taking some time off from work, whatever the means, to attend the interview. The fellow we hired is doing a great job, has the realistic expectation of a long term contract and the potential for full time employment with my company in the future. My point is that contracting agencies are great way to find long term and potentially permanent positions, a great way for someone new to the industry to broaden their experience and make contacts, and in this situation to find a more suitable job. Contracting agencies are used to dealing with situations like the gentleman who posted this entry finds himself in. I worked as a contractor three or four times in my career, so far, when laid off, continuing my education, or after relocating. It has been a generally positive experience, though a couple of these agencies treated me like their bitch, they served their purpose. There was no fee to pay and the agency did the legwork for me. I have been with my current employer for 8 years, after working for them as a contractor for 1 1/2 years. The downside is that there is always a little discomfort with the insecurity of contracting, but that is an incentive to save money, and, by the way, the contractor doesn't get paid unless you are working so they are motivated to find you your next job. For a young, single person that can be part of the adventure.
KWQD
As a recent college grad, I took a job to pay the bills, but soon realized that it would end up sucking the life out of me. I work a lot of overtime in a high-stress, tight deadline job.
Most Managers/Corporation will exploit you if you let them. They respect you more for being a Wolf than a sheep. Use your geek given skills to attack the problem.
Say No to the next piece of work you're given, if you Manager insists you have to do it, ask them what task from your existing work load it replaces. Make the workload his problem. You can only do one task at a time.
Saying no is in some ways the most difficult and the easiest thing to learn to say. Practice it. It's not actually that difficult if approached in the right way. The only person that is allowing this to happen is you and the only person who can stop it is you.
Once you get into that kind of downward spiral, how do you find another job?"
Start on time, Leave on time. If somebody ask, or makes a sarcastic comment just say you have something you HAVE to do. Use an excuse if you have to, but keep it something simple. You don't have to explain what it is. 'That's my business not yours' is better than a lame excuse.
Despite what you may think they are not going to sack you for leaving on time. They cannot do it legally, it would be a breach of your contract. You would have them by the short and curlies. As long as you fullfill you contracted hours they cannot sack you. They cannot sack you for looking for another job.
Use your Holiday leave, sick leave but sometimes you just have to quit.
"All my free time, during the week, is completely non-existent, and the weekends are needed to take care of chores, and preserve my mental health.
I don't think you are preserving your mental health. Your question is ozing a fatalism that suggests some level of depression. Dont dismiss this, don't consider it an insult. I've been there.
Are potential employers typically sensitive to the fact that I may not be able to interview during the week or during standard work hours?
Generally not unless you use the proffessionalism angle to spin it. However Im my experience those that understand the long hours your talking about are likely to exploit you just the same.
Also, will having left here after a year seem like a real black mark on my resume?
Yes and no, be honest, tell prospective employers you made a mistake working for the company. Pick one or two examples of bad practice your existing employer uses as examples. Dont turn this into a moan. Keep it subscinct and neutral.
My reasons for leaving, aside from the overtime (I am non-exempt), would be that I've basically been promoted in work load and responsibilities -- and have even taken on another job role, IN ADDITION to my current one. All of this without a raise in pay, or new title.
This is a good basis. I suggest that you say something along the lines that you feel you are taken for granted and your contribution is not recognised. This tells any prospective new employer that you are prepared and able to contribute. It has also turned a possible negative question into a positive answer.
I'd quit if I had a choice, but I really need the money, yet I'm unable to look for a new job because of lack of time. How am I supposed to job hunt under these circumstances?"
Sometimes you just have to quit, take a rest and start again.
When you interview, walk slowly when being led to the interview room, take a good look around and try to gauge the culture. Do the staff look happy ? A good question for interviews is to ask about the corporate culture. Don't be taking in by rhetoric, 'like we work hard and play hard' which is the biggest bunch of bollocks I've heard. Look for examples.
Finally you should be interviewing the company as much as them interviewing you.
No. Water level goes *up*. When the cinderblock is in the boat, it is displacing water equal to its mass. When it's in the lake, it's displacing water equal to its volume.