"Prior art: the 10NES Checking Integrated Circuit (CIC) in the Nintendo Entertainment System"
Nope: "constantly comparing the locally generated pseudo random sequence with the stream received from the cartridge. When a difference was encountered, the processor reset would be activated"
"the digital signature on games for Atari 7800 game console"
Nope: "when the system starts up, the BIOS performs a mathematical algorithm using the data in the cart and the encryption key. If this algorithm yields a valid result, then the cart must be a 7800 cart, the system is locked into 7800 mode and the cart is executed. If the algorithm fails, the system is locked into 2600 mode and the cart is executed"
Looks like a method of implementing DRM at the application level (eg, "is this app allowed to be run?"). At the document level (eg, DRM music) it may not actually be that important.
"Copyright infringment is stealing, except for fair use, and some other things which aren't legally fair use, but still aren't stealing"
Well no. Firstly, saying "except fair use" means that something can be copyright infringement and fair use at the same time (otherwise fair use couldn't be an exception to where copyright infringement is stealing); if something's covered by fair use, it can't be copyright infringement. As for media shifting, yes I suppose I didn't think that through too thoroughly. I haven't read the law exactly here, so I'm unsure whether media shifting is excluded, or whether it just hasn't been included. I guess the way I see it is that laws are required when there is civil disagreement. Mediashifting [here] hasn't really been challenged, except when it's the precursor to distribution (eg, ripping cds to share them). And so, we haven't needed a law explicitly granting us the right to mediashift, because artists are happy with allowing us to do it. It's long been part of the culture to copy a new CD to tape to play it in the car, for example. I don't know any artist that would wish to deny you that.
But yes, if the artist isn't happy with you mediashifting, then by doing it, you are still depriving them or what is their decision. If they are happy with it, then it is their decision, so doing it isn't depriving them of anything.
Yes, any extensions to copyright law should not be retroactive (why would we give more for something we already have?) and based solely on whether it would increase the works that are released, NOT based on whether creators (or their 'representatives') can get more money from them. RIAA types are BAD, make no mistakes about my opinion there, they're on a rights-grab at the expense of everyone else, but they don't exactly represent the cream of the crop talent wise. If you want that, you have to look to people who don't happen to be trying to milk the system, because that's not what it's about for them. They shouldn't be lumped together with RIAA/etc with phrases like "if copyright owners had not been consistently breaking their side of the contract...", they deserve their rights to be protected as much as anyone.
"They probably don't perceive incorrect spelling of 'lose' to have the same social consequences as misunderstanding of copyright issues"
I don't think it's a misunderstanding of copyright issues, I think it's a language issue. The fact is that outside courtrooms where you need to remove ambiguity, and slashdot (which I shall not comment), using the word 'stealing' is perfectly valid, acceptable, and understood. This is not because of ignorance, it's because it accurately conveys the meaning just fine.
"As an example, copying a DVD I have purchased to my hard drive is illegal in my country"
Ditto (under copyright law, ignoring the whole encryption aspect of it), but just because something's covered by copyright infringment laws, does not make it stealing, as much as it doesn't make it not-stealing.
"How did they become familiar with setting up and using e-mail?"
Well, in my case, as it doesn't really make sense to start going into that much detail for a hypothetical plural case, I think I first got an HoTMaiL account ~11years ago (before it was microsofted). When my family had trouble with our ISP, we switched to Pipex; an action that bought us 5 pop3 boxes, I eventually nabbed one, and (I don't remember when the first version was released) set up the account on Outlook Express, and could start going the read/compose offline thing, to avoid the expense of dialup.
First time I even heard of RSS was a lot more recently, when KDE introduced their newsticker bar, which had multiple RSS feeds preprogrammed, that you just ticked and they appeared on the bar (incidentally, it was the ticking of this thing called 'slashdot' that brought me here!).
I'm not totally unique; the vast majority of people, at least in my country, who use email, have no idea what RSS is, or why they would need it.
"Which will have to adapt to the new Outlook behavior"
Maybe, it's yet to be seen how differently it will render, and how much really needs to be done in the 90% of usual casual-html emails that aren't just going to be trashed, to get them to display properly. I have a hunch it's probably not actually going to be that big a deal.
"But then again if CSS doesn't work, then it might as well be no html for some people"
Only the younguns, us html veterans got no problem with it, we still use <font face=xyz> and <b> instead of class= and style=, and tables for layout anyway, early html was more of a natural language anyway, not like the machine code it is now;-)
So yeah, Outlook is no longer going to have any style, or class... heh, when you say it like that:-)
"You put on a dealers defence"... "You knowingly violate me"... "doing what the marketer wants, whether I want it or not"
And you can't see how that's perhaps, just a little bit melodramatic?!! Oh the adverts on the TV that burn through the air and impact my retinas, eating like hungry dogs to my enternally increasingly darkening brain, the dollar bondage capitalism that scratches control from the wrists of those who are... well, basically, not responsible for their own actions, by your own assertion. If you can't say "no I won't" more times than these "evil marketers" can say "yes you will", then you are weaker than they are, and as per the laws of nature, the strong will dominate, because the strong make things happen. Don't whine about being weak, that just says how much you need looking after, someone to make your decisions for you, which is exactly what you're complaining about these marketers doing; trying to get you to do their thing. If people trying to make decisions for you is the problem, and you want to solve it by having people make decisions for you, then you're stuck with a problem forever.
"Why would stealing, after a period of time, be not stealing?"
If someone agrees to give you something after 50 years, then it's stealing if you take it before, but not stealing when you take it after. The protection that comes with copyright comes at the cost of giving it away at the end of the period of time. Society goes: "if anyone wants to give us their ideas/creations for us to do as we please with after x years, we will give you protection until that time to make money off it". Quid pro quo. Ideas get shared, and artists get paid; everyone benefits.
"The courts use language in a specific way, also the lawmakers, and it is different to common use of language"
This is slashdot. 80% of people on here don't even know how to spell the word 'lose'. That can hardly be compared to a court of law!!!:-)
By 'readers' I meant the people who are readers of the publication, so 'offline readers' just meaning people who read it offline. I'm rarely on a computer that's offline, so I've no idea what software people would use for it, but I can imagine a case where someone does a 'send/receive' while connected, then goes through all their emails offline (either because connection is charged per-minute, or because they need to travel etc) reading and writing any replies that they can send when back online (as I used to do before an always on connection). When doing this, it is just easier for stuff to come into your inbox, complete and ready to read.
"And what would this handle better than RSS?"
As a non-RSS user (well, rare user), I would have to say, users who are familiar with their email app, but aren't familiar with setting up and using RSS, as well as publications that only exist in email format and don't have an RSS stream.
"One interesting fact... I subscribed to eMusic back when they had an unlimited plan available about 4 years ago. I grabbed about 20GB of music off there in a single month- pretty much the entire collection of everything I liked at the time. I really wish they would bring that back"
Haha, they probably got rid of it because of people doing things like grabbing 20GB of music in a single month, oh the delicious irony!
"Now Microsoft will have TWO HTML renderers to debug and maintain"
That's a good point, a less ubiquitous rendering engine naturally becomes a smaller target. Using a different rendering engine divides the number of people affected by exploits. Now, people wanting to put exploits into emails will have to find them themselves, rather than just using web based exploits found by others. All good.
Of cause you can, you boycot the people they work for, the people they work for go "our sales have dropped since you started, you're fired". It's not rocket science.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah but the constitution does explicitly give you the right to use the sleeves from his first suit, so ya know... that's something, right?
"and instead deposited it with Dane County Circuit Judge David T. Flanagan, pending a ruling on who should control it"
It's like a million lines of source cried out and were instantly silenced...
Angry girlfriend thrown off a roof?
(that's what I do with mine!)
I doubt he thought that far ahead, or thought they were gonna screw him over it. Everything's easy with hindsight.
what, tastes great with his homemade sauce?!
"Prior art: the 10NES Checking Integrated Circuit (CIC) in the Nintendo Entertainment System"
Nope: "constantly comparing the locally generated pseudo random sequence with the stream received from the cartridge. When a difference was encountered, the processor reset would be activated"
"the digital signature on games for Atari 7800 game console"
Nope: "when the system starts up, the BIOS performs a mathematical algorithm using the data in the cart and the encryption key. If this algorithm yields a valid result, then the cart must be a 7800 cart, the system is locked into 7800 mode and the cart is executed. If the algorithm fails, the system is locked into 2600 mode and the cart is executed"
Completely different.
"Are you sure [snip]"
Yes.
Looks like a method of implementing DRM at the application level (eg, "is this app allowed to be run?"). At the document level (eg, DRM music) it may not actually be that important.
Not if you unconditionally save state before checking DRM, so that it's already saved should it need to suspend.
"Copyright infringment is stealing, except for fair use, and some other things which aren't legally fair use, but still aren't stealing"
Well no. Firstly, saying "except fair use" means that something can be copyright infringement and fair use at the same time (otherwise fair use couldn't be an exception to where copyright infringement is stealing); if something's covered by fair use, it can't be copyright infringement. As for media shifting, yes I suppose I didn't think that through too thoroughly. I haven't read the law exactly here, so I'm unsure whether media shifting is excluded, or whether it just hasn't been included. I guess the way I see it is that laws are required when there is civil disagreement. Mediashifting [here] hasn't really been challenged, except when it's the precursor to distribution (eg, ripping cds to share them). And so, we haven't needed a law explicitly granting us the right to mediashift, because artists are happy with allowing us to do it. It's long been part of the culture to copy a new CD to tape to play it in the car, for example. I don't know any artist that would wish to deny you that.
But yes, if the artist isn't happy with you mediashifting, then by doing it, you are still depriving them or what is their decision. If they are happy with it, then it is their decision, so doing it isn't depriving them of anything.
Yes, any extensions to copyright law should not be retroactive (why would we give more for something we already have?) and based solely on whether it would increase the works that are released, NOT based on whether creators (or their 'representatives') can get more money from them. RIAA types are BAD, make no mistakes about my opinion there, they're on a rights-grab at the expense of everyone else, but they don't exactly represent the cream of the crop talent wise. If you want that, you have to look to people who don't happen to be trying to milk the system, because that's not what it's about for them. They shouldn't be lumped together with RIAA/etc with phrases like "if copyright owners had not been consistently breaking their side of the contract...", they deserve their rights to be protected as much as anyone.
"They probably don't perceive incorrect spelling of 'lose' to have the same social consequences as misunderstanding of copyright issues"
I don't think it's a misunderstanding of copyright issues, I think it's a language issue. The fact is that outside courtrooms where you need to remove ambiguity, and slashdot (which I shall not comment), using the word 'stealing' is perfectly valid, acceptable, and understood. This is not because of ignorance, it's because it accurately conveys the meaning just fine.
"As an example, copying a DVD I have purchased to my hard drive is illegal in my country"
Ditto (under copyright law, ignoring the whole encryption aspect of it), but just because something's covered by copyright infringment laws, does not make it stealing, as much as it doesn't make it not-stealing.
"How did they become familiar with setting up and using e-mail?"
Well, in my case, as it doesn't really make sense to start going into that much detail for a hypothetical plural case, I think I first got an HoTMaiL account ~11years ago (before it was microsofted). When my family had trouble with our ISP, we switched to Pipex; an action that bought us 5 pop3 boxes, I eventually nabbed one, and (I don't remember when the first version was released) set up the account on Outlook Express, and could start going the read/compose offline thing, to avoid the expense of dialup.
First time I even heard of RSS was a lot more recently, when KDE introduced their newsticker bar, which had multiple RSS feeds preprogrammed, that you just ticked and they appeared on the bar (incidentally, it was the ticking of this thing called 'slashdot' that brought me here!).
I'm not totally unique; the vast majority of people, at least in my country, who use email, have no idea what RSS is, or why they would need it.
"Which will have to adapt to the new Outlook behavior"
Maybe, it's yet to be seen how differently it will render, and how much really needs to be done in the 90% of usual casual-html emails that aren't just going to be trashed, to get them to display properly. I have a hunch it's probably not actually going to be that big a deal.
Yeah, but the other 112% are incorrect, which makes it nearly 87% more incorrect than blue.
"And if he bought a Dell is it Dell's fault, MSFT's, or Nvidia?"
...if he bought a dell, his nvidia card would work, genius.
"The answer is the same whether you want to admit it or not"
Funny, it doesn't sound the same.
"But then again if CSS doesn't work, then it might as well be no html for some people"
;-)
:-)
Only the younguns, us html veterans got no problem with it, we still use <font face=xyz> and <b> instead of class= and style=, and tables for layout anyway, early html was more of a natural language anyway, not like the machine code it is now
So yeah, Outlook is no longer going to have any style, or class... heh, when you say it like that
"You put on a dealers defence" ... "You knowingly violate me" ... "doing what the marketer wants, whether I want it or not"
And you can't see how that's perhaps, just a little bit melodramatic?!! Oh the adverts on the TV that burn through the air and impact my retinas, eating like hungry dogs to my enternally increasingly darkening brain, the dollar bondage capitalism that scratches control from the wrists of those who are... well, basically, not responsible for their own actions, by your own assertion. If you can't say "no I won't" more times than these "evil marketers" can say "yes you will", then you are weaker than they are, and as per the laws of nature, the strong will dominate, because the strong make things happen. Don't whine about being weak, that just says how much you need looking after, someone to make your decisions for you, which is exactly what you're complaining about these marketers doing; trying to get you to do their thing. If people trying to make decisions for you is the problem, and you want to solve it by having people make decisions for you, then you're stuck with a problem forever.
(see, I can do melodrama too)
"Why would stealing, after a period of time, be not stealing?"
:-)
If someone agrees to give you something after 50 years, then it's stealing if you take it before, but not stealing when you take it after. The protection that comes with copyright comes at the cost of giving it away at the end of the period of time. Society goes: "if anyone wants to give us their ideas/creations for us to do as we please with after x years, we will give you protection until that time to make money off it". Quid pro quo. Ideas get shared, and artists get paid; everyone benefits.
"The courts use language in a specific way, also the lawmakers, and it is different to common use of language"
This is slashdot. 80% of people on here don't even know how to spell the word 'lose'. That can hardly be compared to a court of law!!!
So be annoyed at those succcesfully persuaded targets, who are funding the whole thing.
By 'readers' I meant the people who are readers of the publication, so 'offline readers' just meaning people who read it offline. I'm rarely on a computer that's offline, so I've no idea what software people would use for it, but I can imagine a case where someone does a 'send/receive' while connected, then goes through all their emails offline (either because connection is charged per-minute, or because they need to travel etc) reading and writing any replies that they can send when back online (as I used to do before an always on connection). When doing this, it is just easier for stuff to come into your inbox, complete and ready to read.
"And what would this handle better than RSS?"
As a non-RSS user (well, rare user), I would have to say, users who are familiar with their email app, but aren't familiar with setting up and using RSS, as well as publications that only exist in email format and don't have an RSS stream.
"One interesting fact... I subscribed to eMusic back when they had an unlimited plan available about 4 years ago. I grabbed about 20GB of music off there in a single month- pretty much the entire collection of everything I liked at the time. I really wish they would bring that back"
Haha, they probably got rid of it because of people doing things like grabbing 20GB of music in a single month, oh the delicious irony!
"I agree
What value does html add to email"
Well, for one, you can do things like making the words "I agree" be displayed in bold!
"Now Microsoft will have TWO HTML renderers to debug and maintain"
That's a good point, a less ubiquitous rendering engine naturally becomes a smaller target. Using a different rendering engine divides the number of people affected by exploits. Now, people wanting to put exploits into emails will have to find them themselves, rather than just using web based exploits found by others. All good.
Rendered in ms-word (unsupported tags removed):
"No... instead it'll be vulnerable to Office Exploits"
Oh come on, how can you say that?
"They sure won't like this new no HTML thing"
What new no HTML thing?
Of cause you can, you boycot the people they work for, the people they work for go "our sales have dropped since you started, you're fired". It's not rocket science.