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Apple/NVidia Driver Bug — Question Deleted
Joe Drago writes "I purchased a Mac Pro within the first week that they were available, and immediately upgraded to 3GB of RAM (knowing that OSX loves memory). When playing 3D games (World of Warcraft mainly), the game would Kernel Panic the machine if I had played it for a few hours, or if I swapped in and out of the game a few times, etc. I eventually found out (from an official Blizzard poster) that NVidia has a bug in their drivers that kernel panics a Mac Pro if any memory past the 2GB boundary is addressed in the driver. After waiting months for a resolution to this, I decided to post on Apple's support site. Here is an image of my post.. Within a few hours, they removed it from the site, placing it under 'Posts Removed by Administration.' What's going on here? Is Apple trying to hide this bug, or is there something more serious going on between Apple and NVidia?"
I don't claim to know anything Apple's forum rules, but could it not be that the question was removed because they thought this was an Nvidia bug and as such not their responsibility to discuss?
I eventually found out (from an official Blizzard poster) that NVidia has a bug in their drivers that kernel panics a Mac Pro if any memory past the 2GB boundary is addressed in the driver. After waiting months for a resolution to this, I decided to post on Apple's support site. Here is an image of my post.. Within a few hours, they removed it from the site, placing it under 'Posts Removed by Administration.'
Macs "just work". Everyone knows that. Obviously the "problem" is your fault, and/or you're a troll.
Push Button, Receive Bacon
I have a friend who has the exact same problem but he didn't post it on the forum. We took his MacBook Pro to an Apple store and they said they hadn't heard of this and recommended leaving the laptop there for testing. Blah blah blah.
[This comment has been deleted.]
And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"
So if you found out it's an Nvidia driver bug... why would you post in the Apple forums for an answer? Have you tried contacting Nvidia's support?
The complaint is reasonable and mostly well put, but perhaps the speculation at then end annoyed them enough to make them remove it?
It still comes across as a bit unreasonable to remove it, however. But it's Apple. They don't expect you to upgrade things on your own.
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
You're a user of proprietary software, live with it.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Seems more like a complaint/accusation masked as a question, rather than a serious question and might have been removed for that reason.
How often do people take screen grabs of their posts to a forum?
Was their expectation of it being removed? I find that more confusing then the fact that it was deleted.
Wow, I'm kind of surprised this popped up on slashdot (I figured it would get mentioned in a blog, at most, and forgotten about). I'm one of the admins on that forum, and can confirm that yes, we've been asked to nuke anything regarding nVidia, at least in certain contexts. One recent addition to our arrangement with them (to provide kernel drivers) involves some very restrictive IP deals that upper management has interpreted to mean we shouldn't even acknowledge certain kinds of bugs in a very specific area. It's my understanding that there are some serious showstopper bugs inherent to nvidia's platform independent core code that they really do not want releasing. Most of us think this is utter BS (and management being paranoid), fwiw.
:p
And yes, there are enough forum admins that I'm not too scared about 'leaking' like this. Note that I'm keeping the exact details secret
It's pretty dodgy that they've removed this post with out any indication ...
But it also smells to me that you screenshot your forum posts too ???
So a post got deleted on a forum and the obvious explanation has to do with an inter-company conspiracy to cover for a driver bug? Didn't you bother to look for more obvious conclusions, like e-mailing an admin for an explanation, or maybe posting it again with an inquiry as the former deletion? There has to be less than this than claimed.
Apple and nVidia have both said, in public, many times, that in the specific case of Apple NV cards, the drivers are handled by Apple.
Apple Guy: Hi, I'm an Apple.
PC Guy: Hi, I'm a PC.
Apple Guy: *itching crotch*
PC Guy: Got a problem there?
Apple Guy: No, I'm fine. (*cockroaches fall to floor from pant leg*)
PC Guy: Having a little problem with that "Nvidia card"? (chuckles)
Apple Guy: *walks off set*
PC Guy: Don't mind him, he's just trying to support more than 2GB of RAM...
Authority questions you. Return the favor.
This would have nothing to do with NVIDIA unless there is a hardware bug with NVIDIA hardware that won't let you use more then 2gig of RAM, which is very unlikely. Apple develops the video drivers on their own, NVIDIA and ATI just give them the specs to their hardware.
This is what I would expect. When I bugged apple about their broken NFS support on servers they told us that engineers would get back to us. They never did. So I started asking on forums and mailing lists to see if I could get an answer and as soon as I brought it up the thread would get killed or the post would be deleted. Then when we had issues with MPICH it as the same dang thing. Eventually they admitted that MPICH2 works much nicer on Mac OS than MPICH 1 due to some network implementations stuff. Every time I brought it up on the forums though the thread would get killed. (For the curious, the problem that we where having was that an Apple server running NFS would always seem to forget about the last file in a directory when it cached the directory contents. so running "mkdir a; cd a; touch 1 2 3 4 5 6 ; cd .. ; rm -rf a" would fail one out of four times when being done over NFS. If you waited a half an hour then ran rm -rf a it would work great. This issue didn't happen when Mac OS systems mounted Linux NFS shares, but happened every time a Linux or Mac OS system mounted a NFS share off of a Mac OS based system. This was still happening to all of our PPC based systems as of last summer when we finally switched them over to PPC Linux, which made the problem go away)
I guess what I am saying is that it is not surprising. Apple has always nuked threads that made them look bad so why not this one?
Yes, he is talking about WoW. It runs on the Mac you know....
Yeah seriously.. Macs are just toys. Real computers let you play games!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I really like OS-X, however you have to buy Apple hardware in order to run OS-X. Apple does not support their hardware properly. Therefore, Apple does not support OS-X properly.
Censoring anything but "happy-talk" on their forums is not the answer. Apple are smart people, why can they not understand that simplest of simple concepts?
I spend a fair amount of time on the Apple forums. There's really nothing in your post that would seem to warrant such an action, at least compared to some of the trolls that pop up from time to time. But do bear in mind that the Apple forums are user-to-user support forums for Apple hardware and software. So asking to hear from an official source is a waste of time, because Apple-folk NEVER post on the forums. So in a sense, your post wasn't really aimed at allowing other users to troubleshoot an issue, and therefore not appropriate for the forums.
All that aside, I think its silly the post was deleted, since if this is true, it would be a serious issue. I'm planning on getting a Mac Pro this week (albeit with the Radeon card), and would certainly love to hear Apple's response.
He claims that "NVidia has a bug in their drivers", which everyone in the know should realize is impossible, since NVidia doesn't develop their own drivers for Macs!
AFAIK, these days NVidia cards on macs use drivers written by Apple based on source they liscenced from NVidia.
Clearly a troll.
There's this thing in your browser called a cache that stores a copy of pages you visit...
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
they objected to the use of the word 'crap'. I know some sites object to "offensive" language, and "crap" is included in the list of words not allowed.
/. about it, you should e-mail the site administrator and ask for an explanation.
But also, perhaps rather than whinge on
Try to play HL2 or any demanding Direct3D game in a Windows XP 32 bit system using the 3GB switch and the game will crash within 2 minutes. It doesn't surprise me to hear the same happening in Apple systems since the drivers are probably not so different.
So you dared to report that OS X with over 2GB of ram is crashing with one of the most standard video cards on the market (GeForce series) directly to Apple crew? Don't do that, you can get sued or worse..
Either that, or the tinfoil hat's beginning to cut off circulation.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Without pushing aside the issue of censorship here, The parent to this is right. nVidia are cheaper cards, and do have 'known' issues. Had you done a little more research, you may have ordered the box with the X1900 in it in place of the nVidia. I know it is more expensive, but you get what you pay for.
In a nutshell, pay less money, expect more issues. You paid for the 2GB RAM upgrade, why not the GFX card upgrade!?
FYI, I play WoW on my MacBook Pro with 1GB and a 128MB X1600 and it manages to run at full resolution on my 24" LCD (external) with no drama, plus with the Blizzard engine now supporting dual core properly, will do anything from 25-100 fps. That game on OSX is not as resource hungry as people think.
Dan. -- So what if it's spelt wrong, nobody's perfect
So what? I runs under WINE too.
How we know is more important than what we know.
1 Switch to an ATI card. They always seem to work better with OS X. I don't know why, but the NVIDIA cards never seem to work that well for me in OS X.
2 Take out one stick of memory. 3GB is kind of excessive IMO for OS X unless you REALLY need that much memory. I used to run WoW, iTunes, Firefox, Ventrilo, and other apps just fine (when I played WoW) and never had any memory issues with 2 GB. I think the Mac Pro benefits from interleaving as well (don't quote me on that, I don't have one) and requires a specific memory configuration.
3 Play WoW under windows with bootcamp. It was always a little faster for me under XP than OS X, but my subscription ran out a little while ago.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 is the magic number.
Stop playing WOW and do something useful with your life.
"Using your Mac Pro" might not have been the appropriate section to post your topic in.
The post was clearly redundant, as the bug will be fixed in the future, and the release date back-dated :)
That's kind of lame, eh? You except someone to disassemble a laptop to replace the video card? That's just nuts.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Apple provide the nVidia drivers, not nVidia. This bug is apple's problem, so wailing on nVidia is pretty pointless.
Its WORSE than you think! The bugs are now rampant.
: :
Apple, like all software companies large and small, maintains an internal employee BugBase or bug database.
Other companies also include feature requests in such databases with acknowledgement from engineers.
It was a shining example from apple until a couple years ago some managers at Apple decided to irrationally ban thousands of Apple employees from being able to search and access Apple's bug database. This includes some of thier highest paid sales guys and highest paid "Systems Engineers" (not systems software engineers, but rather people that technically manage Fortune 100 company client accounts).
It is worse than Soviet Russia.
Apple did not hid or ban bugs, it merely BANNED ANYONE WHO NEEDS TO READ THEM FROM READING THEM EVER!
Now the database is a joke these years, as no one bothers to enhance the anecdotal evidence.
2 RETARDED QA EXAMPLES
Apples blatant bugs throughout history are legendary and none were caught by their QA because their QA
1 > NEVER ONCE SET SCSI DRIVES to ID #5 (7 choices, but every machine at apple QA was #1 and #2 I guess) so some PowerPC macs shipped with a bug that crashed when the hardware was issuing an interrupt cascading from a SCSI transfer interrupt on a SCSI drive with ID #5. traces were missing on the board. Apple Workaround was to cripple the OS and ROMS for that machine to make all SCSI smaller requests and not disconnect-reconnect to the bus. All the macs shipped defective.
2> NEVER HIRED PEOPLE for QA department familiar with commercial 300 dollar mac debuggers such as Viacom (ICOM) T/MON debugger, or Jasik's 'Mac Nosy The Debugger"; and only hired people for QA department familiar with crappy no frills free command line based "MacsBug" an ancient tool contracted out from Motorola and maintained sporadically by Apple for decades. MacsBug knowledge, even slight, is a requirement to pass hiring test of Apples gang of retards known as Apple QA department. I know many successful expert Mac software engineers that until a few years ago used T/MON so exclusively that they never once ever bothered to tolerate or use crappy Macsbug. and those were software engineers who thought nothing of spending 300 dollars on T/MON or 300 dollars on Mac Nosy The Debugger. And those were professional engineers! And they would have failed Apples retarded and inept QA hiring process based on use of a defective crappy free debugger.
3> Allowed a bug to go through where a timer chip was missing from the circuit board of a PowerPC mac used for network (802.3) usage and the code horrible stumbled along in a pathological state that ANYONE doing ANY form of file copying in Apples retarded QA department would have seen. All the macs shipped defective.
4> The left and right audio sources fed from the analog connector to the headphone jack of Apples best consumer multimedia macintosh at the time were backwards! Luckily QuickTime audio extraction was also buggy and reversed audio left-right so digital access was not flipped or discovered until Quicktime was fixed. QA did not catch it, QA did not even use a proper test audio CD. QA had no IQ to even imagine that stereo audio had a concept of left or right.
Etc, etc etc, There are hundreds of anecdotes of shipping failures that slipped past Apple's homogeneously low IQ, low imagination, no-creativity, zombie drone hordes at the laughable department of Apple QA (Quality Assurance) that the only way to fix it would be to gut it from the top and install some actual engineers to control the laughable department. Cutting off the FIELD employees at apple from the QA bug database and cutting off the service people and Systems Engineers (sales support dudes) only makes Apples QA five times more incompetent now.
I believe 100% that having memory buffer below 4 GB but above 2GB could fail in an Apple targeted Nvidia driver and believe 1005 that apple only tests with low memory and with 8 GB (now 16 GB) and nothing
[This comment has been removed by CmdrTaco Sunday January 14, @05:31PM]
I don't mind (as much) being "censored" if the removed post
;-)
can later be accessed (hopefully also by others beside its
poster), albeit in an out-of-the-way area.
Only when "censors" simply make it disappear forever, with-
out a trace, do I mind their infringement of my free-speech,
such as it is...
There are lots of things that happen on /. that ppl can not offer direct evidence of it. If you like, assume that all of them are wrong. But I have seen things on here from AC's that I knew to be correct (by having worked at 2 of the places that had been talked about), but were said to be trolls or conspiracy theories. You simply have to ask wether you will accept the possibility. If so, then ask is it possible. Then decide what you want to do with it.
As to the current posting, yeah, it is possible. Apple is not high and mighty. They have been shown to be "evil" at times. Of course, it is not that surprising. Lots of companies do things like this.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
You post about a known bug, demand an explanation and contact info for who's handling it, and then submit a story to slashdot when the post is removed, *before* trying to work it out with their admins? And you say that Apple is mishandling it.
Now, if you really wanted to try to help: you could sign up for a developer account (connect.apple.com, there are free accounts if you don't want to pay for the benefits of being the full developer access), and report the bug at bugs.apple.com. In that venue, you will be asked for clarification if your bug is not considered an outright duplicate or non-issue. And if it's an outright duplicate or a non-issue, they'll notify you as such. In the case of a duplicate, they'll direct you to the original so you can keep tabs.
In the meantime, I recommend you remove your extra 1 GB of memory, keep working, and adjust your attitude. 2 GB is still a heck of a lot of RAM and I bet it will do quite well. Your hours-long sessions of Warcraft and buying memory on hearsay don't suggest to me that you're putting that extra memory to good use with professional apps anyway.
Apple isn't out to get you.
I read your post, and I'm struggling to figure out just what the hell your question is. You ask "who is fixing this bug?" but in a place where nobody that could actually provide the answer will be looking. You've clearly already made up your mind that there is some sort of "power struggle" or conspiracy going on, so what, if anything, could someone tell you that would satisfy you? I don't know what the criteria for removal is on those forums, but I suspect yours was removed because it was pointless and inflammatory, not because of any conspiracy. That you feel that having one forum post removed is a crisis worth submitting to Slashdot reeks of paranoia.
Why don't you try Apple's bug reporting site instead of the Discussion forums? You know, the place where you actually report bugs?
Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
You can't say "crap" on the internet.
What?
Here are the results for the word "Crap" in the Apple discussion forums. http://discussions.apple.com/search.jspa?search=Go &q=crap
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
nVidia has always given me WAY less problems than ATI. I hate my 9800XT with a PASSION. Their linux support is absolutely shoddy.
Using multiple browsers on the same machine? It was the second attempt at asking the question?
Look Dude, If you can provide good details on a repeatable bug do so.. http://bugreporter.apple.com/ Once thats done I would complain to the developer of the game so they can hit apple in the head with a bug number.. Blake-
Your questions are incomplete. Are you asking these of me? Yes, I do use multiple browsers on the same machine but rarely at the same time. I haven't asked any questions twice today. I hope that helps.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
The poster did not say where he bought his upgraded RAM. Was it apple RAM? Was it paired? This sounds like bad RAM to me.
Oh my god! CmdrTaco is so efficient and deadly at removing posts that he actually removed your post three hours before you even posted it!
On the Mac, the issue is as simple as upgrading your memory to 3GB, and can be done by any user.
On the PC if you upgrade your memory to 3GB, it won't happen, because you still have a 2GB per-process memory limit. You can get 3GB per-process memory limits with the switch you described, regardless of how much physical memory you have (remember virtual memory).
The thing is, you can't really toggle this switch by accident. You have to specifically set it in your boot.ini file. The only thing I can think of in your favor is I have never heard your problem before, and everywhere I see the 3GB switch described it sounded like it could be useful for the right apps... with no mention of this possible bug.
To summarize: Not the same thing. In Mac you simply install more memory. In Windows you have to crack open a system file and add an obscure setting to the boot configuration.
Yes, how about that civil manner you were talking about, Sir? Perhaps you should try to apply that to your own little speech before flaming other people?
You should keep in mind that as an Apple customer, you are entitled to support. You must realize that the forum is part of Apple's customer care.
Yes, the writer may seem to be a little presumptive but text can be interpreted in many ways. You can't be sure if he really intended it to sound like the way it sounds in your ears.
What if he phoned Apple, told them the exact same thing and in the very same context? Would it be OK for Apple to hang up on him?
The best thing Apple could do in this situation is to give a professional reply to any comment that isn't "trolled".
Full Tilt
I'd love to make an on topic comment but I can't RTF original message because the poster's bandwidth has been exceeded.
Anyway, most if not all support sites censor their posts and answers. Of course I can't offer an opinion as to why in this case.
I reserve the right to think for myself. Others' opinions are optional. Puppy on lap = typos...not illiteracy.
http://orange.blender.org/blog/stupid-memory-probl ems
--
- Justin
Parent says "You're a user of proprietary software, live with it."
I see nothing in that post to warrent being modded Flamebait.
When you use proprietory software what are your options? Fix it yourself? All you can do is try to beg, goad, flatter, etc. the developer into fixing it. If the developer doesn't fix it then all you can do is live with it.
Perhaps the person(s) who modded the parent as Flamebait has another idea?
How about this: the forum post deletions are the result of an overzealous moderator, and as a result, your post to slashdot is the result is an overzealous conspiracy theory?
Dumb bug on someone's part, but you're looking for a conspiracy where there is likely none.
Have you ever tried an ATI card in linux? I have... took me several hours to get the damn thing installed and running properly, and then a full weekend with a 9800 pro before i came to the conclusion that hardware overlays on the s-video output were impossible with their drivers.
For comparison, the nvidia card that replaced it was up and running within 5 minutes with full hardware acceleration.
-Tom
Its all about competing with Microsoft to make sure they don't get yet another monopoly, this time on Evil ...
Two years ago, it was Sun's turn to be evil ... last year it was google's ; Novell tried last month, but they pretty much failed it, so Apple got the nod.
I runs under WINE too.How unfortunate -- i just get a headache from wine, never the runs.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
There's been something fishy going on at nVidia for a while.
One is nVidia's policy that *they* don't support nVidia techology; the OEMs do. They tell you if you have problems to contact your OEM. Now Apple is a big company and could conceivably do this, but many nVidia cards are made by small OEMs who slap electronics on a board and sell it. Are they going to help you with a crashing nVidia driver. And when you follow the link on the nVidia to their OEM "support partners", this is what you get:
http://www.nvidia.com/page/partner_support.html "Page not found"
nVidia has gone so far to shut down the feedback page on their website: It says "This module is still under construction." You really believe nobody at nVidia knows how to make a web feedback page?
There's a long running bug in nVidia drivers known as the nv4_disp bug. You'll be typing away on your PC, then suddenly your monitor goes blank. A few seconds later, your PC power down. This was happening to me and I though it was some perculiarity with my PC. It turns out, this is affecting a lot of people, and it has been around for many years. nVidia know about it (they mention it in passing on one of their forums), but haven't fixed it. Windows BSOD diagnoses it as an infinite loop "device driver programming error." Independently some skilled owners worked out it was a timing problem with how nVidia writes to an I/O register. If you're lucky this bug will hit you only once a week. If you're unlucky, several times a day. THIS HAS BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS, yet nVidia won't fix this damned thing!
Want to see how widespread the problem is? Google for nv4_disp. The owner of this web page says he's amazed how many hits this page gets, and theorises a lot of people are affected:
http://s13.invisionfree.com/nv4_disp/index.php?sho wtopic=10 0 /stupid_windows_.html 9 55.html v 4disp-problem/ . html
http://byronmiller.typepad.com/byronmiller/2005/1
http://www.computing.net/drivers/wwwboard/forum/4
http://www.christopherjason.com/articles/nvidia-n
http://www.ntcompatible.com/thread27150-1.html
http://www.daniweb.com/techtalkforums/thread18930
The most frustating thing is that nVidia do everything they can to put you off. A "under construcion" feedback page. The fob-off to their partners, with a support page that doesn't even exist. Ignored e-mail. Ignored forum questions.
One solution is of course to buy an ATI card, but if you're paid hundreds of bucks for an nVidia card, what do you do? Does anyone know how we can make nVidia fix this damned thing?
After waiting months for a resolution to this, I decided to post on Apple's support site. Here is an image of my post.. Within a few hours, they removed it from the site, placing it under 'Posts Removed by Administration.' What's going on here? Is Apple trying to hide this bug, or is there something more serious going on between Apple and NVidia?"
Clearly you are a well-informed, technically savvy person. It seems obvious that the question you posted to Apple's support site posed a major threat the the stability of Steve Job's Reality Distortion Field, so Apple simply removed the immediate threat to their image. You might want to be careful, lest they decide to remove the source of the threat...you haven't seen any unfamiliar non-descript vehicles parked outside your home recently, have you?
"iPod: you can get better, but you can't pay more." is a favorite saying of mine. It has applied to most oh-so-trendy Apple products since the late 80s. As someone who has supported Macs as part of my job in the past, beginning right about the time the Web did, I learned to not bother with official Apple forums and instead turn to the Mac user community sites.
Apple wants to maintain the carefully crafted illusion that Macs are trouble-free, never get infected by malware, and are easy to use even for computer illiterates. Only the last item has an element of truth to it. Macs are reasonably easy to use, for computer illiteres who don't want to actually do much with their computer. Businesspeople who continued to use Macs for various kinds of publishing work when Wintel was clearly the way to go for most purposes quickly discovered that Macs are at least as trouble-prone as PCs and since Apple is often slow to fix bugs and the Mac userbase has always been tiny compared to that of Wintel systems, there aren't as many other places to turn to for help, serious Mac problems often go unresolved for much longer than similar ones do on common Wintel platforms.
The Mac user community has long been fairly close knit and tries to be helpful, in my experience. It tends to lack the sheer numbers of folks with excellent technical skills that the Wintel user community has (due to sheer size) and the Linux crowd enjoys (because Linux users tend(ed) to be geeks by nature, at least until recently as more "user friendly" versions of Linux have appeared.
My bet is that Apple will feel the heat now that you've exposed the way they disappeared your technical question from their support forum and will probably claim that you failed to follow procedure or that someone removed it accidentally. I'd be somewhat amazed if you get a timely, useful reply to your query from Apple. If you do, please post it as a follow-up. Actually, any further responses you get from Apple would be interesting.
I'm more curious as to what nVidia will do now that this issue has been made very public. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to get Ubuntu 6.10 to recognize the nVidia GeForce 7600 GS I installed along with a Dell 2407 WFP on my main machine. Windows XPx64Pro quickly recognized the new hardware and installed the proper drivers for it. Edgy Eft will only boot into CLI mode, complaining that it can't start the X server won't start, probably due to it not being set up correctly. If Linux vendors can come up with an effective Plug&Pray system like Microsoft has (finally, after several years of very gradual improvement), they'll be winning over a lot of people who might otherwise be suck(er)ed into the quagmire known as Vista.
It will be interesting to see which of us obtains a solution first.
"You're young, you're drunk, you're in bed, you have knives; shit happens." -- Angelina Jolie
"Work offline" modes always retrieve copies of the document stored in cache, regardless of the status of the document on the Internet.
This message printed on 100% post-consumer recycled electrons.
Freedom of speech does not provide a free medium on which to speak, it simply guarantees that you can say what you want without fear of prosecution (so long as what you say isn't libel).
I dont know why apple fanboys have to keep modding this to -1 as flamebait its INFORMATIVE and FACTUAL :
: :
Its WORSE than you think! The Apple bugs are now rampant.
Apple, like all software companies large and small, maintains an internal employee BugBase or bug database.
Other companies also include feature requests in such databases with acknowledgement from engineers.
It was a shining example from apple until a couple years ago some managers at Apple decided to irrationally ban thousands of Apple employees from being able to search and access Apple's bug database. This includes some of thier highest paid sales guys and highest paid "Systems Engineers" (not systems software engineers, but rather people that technically manage Fortune 100 company client accounts).
It is worse than Soviet Russia.
Apple did not hid or ban bugs, it merely BANNED ANYONE WHO NEEDS TO READ THEM FROM READING THEM EVER!
Now the database is a joke these years, as no one bothers to enhance the anecdotal evidence.
2 RETARDED QA EXAMPLES
Apples blatant bugs throughout history are legendary and none were caught by their QA because their QA
1 > NEVER ONCE SET SCSI DRIVES to ID #5 (7 choices, but every machine at apple QA was #1 and #2 I guess) so some PowerPC macs shipped with a bug that crashed when the hardware was issuing an interrupt cascading from a SCSI transfer interrupt on a SCSI drive with ID #5. traces were missing on the board. Apple Workaround was to cripple the OS and ROMS for that machine to make all SCSI smaller requests and not disconnect-reconnect to the bus. All the macs shipped defective.
2> NEVER HIRED PEOPLE for QA department familiar with commercial 300 dollar mac debuggers such as Viacom (ICOM) T/MON debugger, or Jasik's 'Mac Nosy The Debugger"; and only hired people for QA department familiar with crappy no frills free command line based "MacsBug" an ancient tool contracted out from Motorola and maintained sporadically by Apple for decades. MacsBug knowledge, even slight, is a requirement to pass hiring test of Apples gang of retards known as Apple QA department. I know many successful expert Mac software engineers that until a few years ago used T/MON so exclusively that they never once ever bothered to tolerate or use crappy Macsbug. and those were software engineers who thought nothing of spending 300 dollars on T/MON or 300 dollars on Mac Nosy The Debugger. And those were professional engineers! And they would have failed Apples retarded and inept QA hiring process based on use of a defective crappy free debugger.
3> Allowed a bug to go through where a timer chip was missing from the circuit board of a PowerPC mac used for network (802.3) usage and the code horrible stumbled along in a pathological state that ANYONE doing ANY form of file copying in Apples retarded QA department would have seen. All the macs shipped defective.
4> The left and right audio sources fed from the analog connector to the headphone jack of Apples best consumer multimedia macintosh at the time were backwards! Luckily QuickTime audio extraction was also buggy and reversed audio left-right so digital access was not flipped or discovered until Quicktime was fixed. QA did not catch it, QA did not even use a proper test audio CD. QA had no IQ to even imagine that stereo audio had a concept of left or right.
Etc, etc etc, There are hundreds of anecdotes of shipping failures that slipped past Apple's homogeneously low IQ, low imagination, no-creativity, zombie drone hordes at the laughable department of Apple QA (Quality Assurance) that the only way to fix it would be to gut it from the top and install some actual engineers to control the laughable department. Cutting off the FIELD employees at apple from the QA bug database and cutting off the service people and Systems Engineers (sales support dudes) only makes Apples QA five times more incompetent now.
I believe 100% that having memory buffer below 4 GB but above 2GB could fail in an Appl
Apple 0wnz you. Shut up and don't complain.
It seems to me, what with the large response to this post, it should be crystal clear to Apple to do something or tell NVIDIA to do something.
Eagerly awaiting....
I don't know why Apple fanboys have to keep modding the following to -1 as flamebait : its INFORMATIVE and FACTUAL :
: :
----
Roporting bugs does not help, apple restricts access to reported bugs even to vital employees.
Its WORSE than you think! The Apple bugs are now rampant.
Apple, like all software companies large and small, maintains an internal employee BugBase or bug database.
Other companies also include feature requests in such databases with acknowledgement from engineers.
It was a shining example from apple until a couple years ago some managers at Apple decided to irrationally ban thousands of Apple employees from being able to search and access Apple's bug database. This includes some of thier highest paid sales guys and highest paid "Systems Engineers" (not systems software engineers, but rather people that technically manage Fortune 100 company client accounts).
It is worse than Soviet Russia.
Apple did not hid or ban bugs, it merely BANNED ANYONE WHO NEEDS TO READ THEM FROM READING THEM EVER!
Now the database is a joke these years, as no one bothers to enhance the anecdotal evidence.
2 RETARDED QA EXAMPLES
Apples blatant bugs throughout history are legendary and none were caught by their QA because their QA
1 > NEVER ONCE SET SCSI DRIVES to ID #5 (7 choices, but every machine at apple QA was #1 and #2 I guess) so some PowerPC macs shipped with a bug that crashed when the hardware was issuing an interrupt cascading from a SCSI transfer interrupt on a SCSI drive with ID #5. traces were missing on the board. Apple Workaround was to cripple the OS and ROMS for that machine to make all SCSI smaller requests and not disconnect-reconnect to the bus. All the macs shipped defective.
2> NEVER HIRED PEOPLE for QA department familiar with commercial 300 dollar mac debuggers such as Viacom (ICOM) T/MON debugger, or Jasik's 'Mac Nosy The Debugger"; and only hired people for QA department familiar with crappy no frills free command line based "MacsBug" an ancient tool contracted out from Motorola and maintained sporadically by Apple for decades. MacsBug knowledge, even slight, is a requirement to pass hiring test of Apples gang of retards known as Apple QA department. I know many successful expert Mac software engineers that until a few years ago used T/MON so exclusively that they never once ever bothered to tolerate or use crappy Macsbug. and those were software engineers who thought nothing of spending 300 dollars on T/MON or 300 dollars on Mac Nosy The Debugger. And those were professional engineers! And they would have failed Apples retarded and inept QA hiring process based on use of a defective crappy free debugger.
3> Allowed a bug to go through where a timer chip was missing from the circuit board of a PowerPC mac used for network (802.3) usage and the code horrible stumbled along in a pathological state that ANYONE doing ANY form of file copying in Apples retarded QA department would have seen. All the macs shipped defective.
4> The left and right audio sources fed from the analog connector to the headphone jack of Apples best consumer multimedia macintosh at the time were backwards! Luckily QuickTime audio extraction was also buggy and reversed audio left-right so digital access was not flipped or discovered until Quicktime was fixed. QA did not catch it, QA did not even use a proper test audio CD. QA had no IQ to even imagine that stereo audio had a concept of left or right.
Etc, etc etc, There are hundreds of anecdotes of shipping failures that slipped past Apple's homogeneously low IQ, low imagination, no-creativity, zombie drone hordes at the laughable department of Apple QA (Quality Assurance) that the only way to fix it would be to gut it from the top and install some actual engineers to control the laughable department. Cutting off the FIELD employees at apple from the QA bug database and cutting off the service people and Systems Engineers (sales support dudes) only makes Apples QA five time
It's been tagged as flamebait because Apple users do not like being reminded that they paid Apple AND gave up their freedom to use, modify, study, and distribute software. And when their complaints about bugs are being ignored or suppressed, they suddenly realize that they want to have their cake and eat it too.
The answer is simple. His message stated he was looking for an "official" response from Apple. However, he posted this message on a forum that, albeit hosted by Apple, is a user-to-user support forum. Apple employees very, very rarely respond to any messages on those forums and when they do, they never, ever, provide "official" responses to real or perceived bugs. That's why his message was deleted. It violated the terms of use.
I realize by defending Apple I risk being labeled a "fanboy" by many of the juvenile idiots that troll this board. So, for those tempted to falsely apply that petty and overused label to me, I would ask them to provide evidence that any major computer products vendor (hardware or software) distributes official status on product bugs through their user forums. Note that by "major" I mean companies like Adobe, Dell and Microsoft. I'm aware that small developers communicate to users via their forums, but none of the big guys do.
By the way, I'm not saying that the guy doesn't have a legitimate complaint. I'm sure there are hundreds of undisclosed bugs in Apple products. Apple is no different than any other vendor in this regard. It's just that his expectation that he would get an official response through the user forums is naive and his suspicions of some conspiracy to hide the bug is just plain silly.
Someone needs to make that as a fan made commercial. :)
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Depends on your the time zone you have set for the forum. Some people will see that Cmdr Taco was a few hors too slow...
I don't think there are very many people who haven't run into something like this at one point or another. If it hadn't been a forum, if it instead had been a telephone support call, and they ignored it, that would not have been slashdot worthy, because that happens to everyone. Support for any company has always been PR-tically correct. Companies many times will admit only to problems they have a fix for. This is just the way it is, and if every case of this was Slashdotted, the site would be flooded with it. OMFG THEY DELETED MY POST! IMMA SLASHDOT THEIR ASS! Get over it and suck it up princess. While I sympathize with you, we've all been through this. Had forum posts deleted, questions avoided or answered in PR-speak, issues ignored.
Good point. I had forgotten about that.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
lol
The jobs ( some of them at least ) are in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA.
Last I 'eard, most folk round these parts speak some cobbled up thang called English
I take it from your sarcastic post that you feel that putting a reply on a post that Apple may feel is off topic is going WAY beyond a reasonable effort.
Rather than being sarcastic you could have just said so... or...
You could snail mail me, call me, call my mother, write it in a TPS report, stick it on a post-it on my monitor, write it on my forehead with a sharpe, and then have a 6 month board review and mock trial to allow me to object to your post.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Who wants a wor... i mean troll in their Apple?
Besides, "intellectual property" is a weasel expression, use "copyright" or "patents" to make it clear what this refers to, there's no law about "intellectual property" as far as I know but there is about copyright and patents (although there shouldn't be any software patents in my opinion).
IAmNotALawyer. However, "intellectual property law" is a commonly recognized category inclusive of those. Incidentally, you forgot "trade secrets" and "trademarks"; and see also 15 USC 1128 et alia.
And dude, your attempt at trolling was pitiful.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
File a complaint with BBB, after a while they can't delete history with BBB, you can always post their dealings with customers too, out to dry on the web.
http://bbb.com/
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I have the same problem with a MacPro bumped up to 2 gig ram. Happens when I run all 4 processors at max load for several hours. Strange thing is I am not accessing any opengl functionality when the kernel pannic happens. I've taken it to the local Apple store and they will not do anything because I have not added 'official Apple ram'.
Looking at the backtrace, I suspect there is some issue in the interupt controller, AppleAPIC. I'm not exactly sure what the AppleMCEDriver does, this is not in the darwin source, but in Linux land, mce.h is machine check handlers. I've looked at the AppleMCEDriver kext binary, and it does have the string "uncorrectable Fbd memory error detected. ferr", so looks like whatever traps the memory handle calls a function in AppleMCEDriver to write it to the kernel panic log.
Anybody have any ideas how to get Apple to acknowledge this error and do something about it???
Anyway, the error, which apperently quite a few people have is this:
Why did you write "picoodle bandwidth exceeded" on Apple's support forums? They probably didnt understand what you meant either.
Just suck it up and buy an ATI card.
I don't buy that one bit. I was a ATI fan for many years and jumped them for the same issues on PCs AND THEY WROTE the drivers, but in this case Apple did. So Apple aught to fess up and fix it. There is no way a driver in a BSD based kernel should crash a machine unless it is defective.
I would just take it back, if they can't fix it get a refund. If they will not give a refund, small claims court. Be a pain and they will refund. Posting here too was a good move, lets others know it isn't a one of....
The mac pro is NOT a laptop...and it currently is the only macintosh in the intel line that comes with a NVidia chipset.
It was widely reported (and appears to be confirmed by my experiences) that Apple laid off all personnel that monitored their support forums last summer. This begs the question who deletes posts? I think volunteer Mac geeks have been given administrator rights to the forums and perhaps do whatever they want. Apple screwed up by laying off its forum support staff, but may not have had anything to do with the elimination the nVidia thread.
Which I've had extremely good help from. And they speak English.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
I recently bought a mac pro along with the Parallels software so I could run windows as well. Sorry, no go. Parallels wouldn't work on the mac pro. No way will you ever convince me that Apple didn't know that one of their biggest selling points was a dud. Caused kernel panics. It works on the mac book pro but not the tower. Took the parallels software back and the apple rep had never heard about any problems with it.
Next I found that the keyboard has the worst key-bounce since the Shadio Rack Mod I. A bit of searching uncovered the fact that this has been going on a long time and Apple refuses to admit there is a problem or fix it. The best you will get out of them is another keyboard that does the same thing. There is one company that makes a decent replacement and when I tried to get one, they were out of stock indefinitely at the manufacturing level. hmmm.
I got the computer primarily for vector illustration using Adobe Illustrator. Guess what. Adobe Illustrator is completely unstable on the Mac Pro. This is another little tidbit of information that Apple seems to be squelching. I have found that memory management seems to be the main prob. keep the files small and save often. The program tends to go POOF! on a regular basis, but they do give me the opportunity each time to send a message to Apple telling them what slime-balls they are.
The list goes on and on, but my time to write it doesn't. Look...I knew I was buying a new system design and there would be bugs, but I would expect Mr. Jobs to have at least some modicum of professional ethics and be up front about MAJOR problems so people can make informed choices. These aren't small matters. Adobe CS2 and Parallels are two of the biggest selling points for the Mac. Neither one worked, they knew it and they lied about it. simple as that.
Cause now you want us to all go and buy Mac Books and try it the "bug" out right?
At the end of the day did you contact NVIDIA and find some kind of answer?
Look, this is not about a person's life and/or our rights. This is NOT that important. Keep things in perspective. All in all, if Apple decided to do this, then more issues will show up. It will come out and be reflected in their attempts to sell more. Besides, I would assume that you like your job AND do not wish to end up in court losing against Apple. And yes, they will win this one.
Besides, this is an easy test. Just submit the same bug by 1000 or more different ppl on this list. Once that happens AND it comes out that it did not make the list, then Apple will either have to admit it and deal with it or simply allow bad PR. In light of how they have treated some of the support issues recently, I am guessing that they do not want to allow this to escalate into another support issue.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
First and foremost messages can be easily lost forever due to software or hardware failures, they can be censored by individuals who want them gone (Nazi Moderation). They also tend to not exist after a finite amount of time due to companies closing up shop or local retention limits. With usenet messages are propogated throughout the planet to thousands of separate stores.
Second using a browser even with all the modern trinkets and features still stinks compared to a real editor/news client.
Third to get answers that people take the time to post publically as a service to others tend to expose you to mounds and mounds of crap due to the proliferation of sites that exist to make money from google adwords.
Fourth categorization and search is much easier with a common protocol vs ad hoc web applications.
Fith access performance and just plain getting crap done factor was generally much higher in the good ole days before PHPBB and similiar technologies.
I know the above is one sided and there are lots of advantages to local systems.
Anyway I remember posting a message to one of the most popular soft phone forums a while back basically saying how stupid they were for allowing hyperlinking to SIP uris that just dial phone numbers without any kind of user say or any way to disable it short of registry hacks. A rediculous, stupid and obvious security problem. My post disappeared 20 minutes later but eventually after many months and lots of counseling I got over it and still use their software :) I figured at least they were smart enough to realize they were being stupid.
nVidia doesn't do Apple drivers. They may have their engineers help write them, but they don't support or distribute them. Apple is solely responsible for supporting the hardware they ship with their systems because they want it that way. You go to nVidia's site you'll find drivers for Windows of all varieties, Linux 32 and 64-bit, FreeBSD, and even Solaris, but no OS-X. So when you have problems with nVidias on OS-X, it's Apple that you need to talk to.
and operated society, please refer to luminaries like Noam Chomsky for details no how you're being savagely ass fucked every day of your life whether you know it or not, so some fortune 500 executive can make that payment on their 3rd yacht while you're busy trying to get enough money to take your kid to the doctor.
i have never understood why treatment like this by companies is a.) accepted and b.) suprising to anyone after submitting to "a" by purchasing from known shitty megacorporations (aka, all of them, ever bought a cellphone? how about opened a bank account or shopped at wal-mart? guess who is the problem)
3
waspleg
(Couldn't access the article's screen capture - site's bandwidth exceeded.)
I did some googling around, and it appears that Mac Pro systems have been known to Kernel Panic in a number of cases after a memory upgrade. Have you considered that you might have TWO (intermittent) problems?
According to this http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/Mac_Pro/mac_pro _ram.html upgrade memory should have larger heatsinks than standard heatsinked FB-Dimms. It has links to: memory test utilities, ECC correction reports, and most notably:
Questions:
Hope this helps!
How can you give up something which you do not have? Apple users never had the freedom to modify, study and distribute NVidia's copyright code in the first place. Owning an Apple computer does not stop you using, modifying, studying and distributing software which you are entitled to use, modify, study and distribute. The only thing stopping Apple users from writing their own drivers is the fact that they already have access to one which offers substantially more functionality than the FOSS alternatives.
What they actually chose was a machine on which you have fully-featured accelerated 3D graphics with broad software support - it seems they value the freedom to play WoW and have whizzy 3D desktop effects more highly than the freedoms the FOSS alternatives offer.
Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
I identified a serious flaw in all USR "Sportster" and "Courier" modems (only the ones with flashable firmware). It was reproducable (at least to me) and caused a dropped connection under certain conditions. After making it past the tier 1 support folks, I got in touch with the product engineering group. I gave them enough info that they took me seriously but they claimed that they could not reproduce the problem. They sent me a brand new computer with modem so I could configure it like mine. I did so and they dialed into it and saw the problem. I sent the system back and kept in touch with them until they fell off the face of the earth about 2 weeks after I returned their computer. I have all of the e-mail threads to document this.
USR apparently did not want to deal with the product liablity. It would have bankrupted them to fix all of the modems. Instead they quietly dropped the product line and completely ignored me. I solved my problem by buying a bunch of modems from another manufacturer.
JSL
This isn't the only video bug related to the MacPro platform. You also can't use an ATI and nVidia card in the same unit or an Application which uses CoreImage will crash when displaying a window on a screen powered by the ATI card. This is the first time I've ever had a problem running video cards from different vendors in the Mac, and the first time since the original Mac II era that I haven't had at least 4 screens running on my primary production machine. According to one report on MacFixit, this was known to Apple, but reported on Apple's developer pages only. However, the linked page provided (sorry, I no longer have it), did not actually contain the claimed information. I expect Apple edited the page to remove reference to this bug after MacFixit reported it.
Apple support did not know about the bug and had no idea if / when it would be addressed.
Since the Mac Pro isn't a laptop, I wonder what you are referring to?
- nk
The 24-inch iMac comes with either a GeForce 7300 GT 128MB or a GeForce 7600 256MB.
I bet you can't replace the video card in that!
We apologize for the inconvenience.
It's being tagged as flamebait because it is flamebait. Just because I bought something I don't know how to repair myself (hint: My car, TV, microwave, washing machine, digicam and a kazillion other gadgets fall into that category) doesn't mean I can't expect a working product, and if the producer refuses to repair or even acknowledge the fault I'm sure going to make a stink about it. "STFU and take it" means "Eat the cost of defective products yourself" - like hell I will. If it was an elitist Linux user which made that comment, it was about as mature as Nelson pointing and saying "HA HA!".
As for "the freedom to use, modity, study and distribute software", I'd just like to quote what the parent said: "When you use proprietory software what are your options? Fix it yourself? All you can do is try to beg, goad, flatter, etc. the developer into fixing it. If the developer doesn't fix it then all you can do is live with it." Well, for 99% of the population, that's exactly the same choice they have with open source software. Even if you have all the required skills, digging into a project to track down a bug will almost certainly cost you more than it's worth. Of course then you'd get back on that high horse and say "Well, you didn't pay anything for it so STFU." In either case you end up paying in time or money, that is money, if you want working software.
Fortunatly, most of the time the developers are interested in fixing bugs, but that applies equally well to open and closed source software. If the bug is ugly or rare or difficult to fix, neither of them will and you're screwed in both cases. Sure, I could just make the software work the way I want to - it'd just take me a few centuries if not millennia.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I saw this on TV, two goofy guys pretending to be computers.
One kept on pretending to freeze up.
I remember one of them was pretending to be a Mac.
This was suppose to be make you laugh.
This is not a bug, just a feature to make you giggle --kernels can't panic.
I, for one, welcome our new Apple Administrative Post Remover Overlords.
Your ad could be here!
Okay, so I bought the ATI card. Now where do I plug it in on my pbook?
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
Nooooo... I can't fill out all my memory slots - AND - play WoW... damn.
Why render images / photos / video / sound clips with Burning Crusade releasing this week ?
BE Pallies will rule !
Once upon a time, a soon to be mommy and daddy loved each other very much (the lust was strong as well as the drinks)
I get:
http://img02.picoodle.com/bandwidth.png
Something more esoteric that new Mac buyers might not be aware of, is that Apple's Nvidia drivers do not support display rotation. If you want to rotate your displays under OS X, you need a Mac with an ATI video card (I haven't tested it on a Mini, their GMA might support it as well).
I'm beginning to think Nvidia video cards are considered something of a red-headed stepchild on the Macintosh platform...
From the Apple site, it appears that the Nvidia option is not available anymore?
I can't say that I spend any time on those forums, but did they delete it because the post is about a product configuration that is no longer an option and is otherwise unhelpful?
...but isn't the OSX kernel open source? Has anyone taken a look at the driver to see if it's something stupid that can be fixed quickly?
[This reply has been removed by CmdrTaco due to a cease and desist letter received from the Church of Scientology and in a blatant attempt to continue a running gag]
09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
A central file in the nVidia display driver for Windows is named nv4_disp.dll.
Well, Duh.
> Googling for nv4_disp and noting the large amount of search results does not
Why do you think people are posting about it? You think we're appreciating it as modern art?> prove the existence of a single, unfixed widespread nVidia "nv4_disp bug".
> "nv4_disp bug".
Read those damn posts! What are the people talking about? Lock ups and blue screens of death. Suggest you check your facts before you shoot off your mouth.
And when my nv4_disp crashes and the BSOD reports a device driver error and forces a reboot, that's a bug, without the inverted commas. :-|
The subject says it all. It's really important in terms of protecting our rights as consumers. And it's hilarious too.
I have a MacBook Pro... one of the first few ones. The Laptop is great EXCEPT for running World of Warcraft. It's got 2Gb or RAM and using an ATI X1600 Gfx card. My entire machine would periodically lock up. I've decided that I'm going to keep on replacing the motherboard until the problem goes away... if it IS a software issue then sooner or later Apple will get the message and fix the damn problem as it will start costing them otherwise. No really, the machine is a dream otherwise. But they really should look into stablity a bit...
I probably shouldn't take your bait, but since someone marked you "Insightful" I felt compelled.
First of all, the switch to Intel has been an incredible boon for Mac laptop owners. The new MacBook Pros are faster at running Photoshop in emulation than the old PowerBooks are running it native. Secondly, Apple's DRM position hasn't changed at all since the move to Intel. Finally, if moving to Intel is about DRM, why do you say your next laptop will be Intel?
Anyway, Apple has always been about having the most pleasing, efficient, and hassle-free experience, not about expandability or mod-ability, although some of Apple's products aren't bad in that respect.
E pluribus unum
You're freaking nuts, and ignorant to boot. DRM was not the reason Apple switched to Intel - there's nothing DRM-specific about the Intel architecture. Apple switched because IBM was not able to deliver a PowerPC laptop chip that met modern performance targets (yes, we all know the G5 was fast, but it also sucked down power and spewed out heat).
And, name me one thing that Apple has done that involves DRM, besides the iTunes Music Store. You can't, because they haven't done ANYTHING. And the music store only has DRM at the insistence of the record labels.
As for the iPhone, I can't argue there - I can only hope that Apple will come to its senses in the next six months, and open it up for public development.
This space intentionally left blank.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Blizzard and Apple engineers worked on a resolution to this (at least regarding WoW). I have a 4GB Mac Pro and am happy to say that once Blizzard releaseed the 2.0 ('Before the Storm') patch, my kernel panics disappeared. WoW was the only app with which I ever experienced this problem, so if you're still experiencing it with other stuff, my condolences. But Blizzard must have employed a work-around, because my machine hasn't KP'ed since.
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
Who sucks at the teat of capitalism and free markets while shitting all over the place?
That Noam Chomsky?
And, name me one thing that Apple has done that involves DRM, besides the iTunes Music Store. You can't, because they haven't done ANYTHING. And the music store only has DRM at the insistence of the record labels.
What else do you want? iTunes is the medium through which they provide all the entertainment that people want, which means that all of it is under DRM. Looking at it this way, everything Apple has done regarding popular multimedia entertainment has been through DRM. And even worse, many of the capibilities are only available via Apple hardware and software. Yes, you can use iTunes on a PC or Laptop but that's as far as it goes. In my book this makes Apple more restrictive, not less. But it makes sense, hardware is one place where Apple makes money. I don't fault them for defending their business, but I won't pretend they are somehow more user friendly.
I love my sig.
The nv drivers don't work with anything over a geforce 5xxx, so a 6xxx or 7xxx card will have a garbled screen and X won't load. You'll need to toggle to another console and change the xorg.conf file to start vesa, then restart the X server. This is why people who say we should use only OSS drivers for linux annoy me, because the OSS graphics drivers don't work on the newer systems.
How do you kill that which has no life?
Released to developers on 12/22.3 6518
http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=
ITunes was DRM'ed long before the Intel switch, is still DRM'ed on both PPC and Intel, and doesn't require TPM to operate. So, in actuality, the Intel switch and the DRM issue are completely separate things, not related at all, and has nothing to Apple "going down the Intel DRM path."
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
That's quite a tall statement not to back up with statistics. I call you a liar sir, until you do so.
Horns are really just a broken halo.
This has nothing to do with NVidia drivers. My guess is you just have some bad RAM.
I use a Mac Pro with 3GB of RAM every day. When I first got it, it would kernel panic when I went past the 2GB mark too. However, swapping out the RAM with some known-good RAM fixed that.
Mmmm.. Donuts
The picture of your post isn't showing up either.
I shopped around quite a bit before buying the mac pro and every apple rep I talked to was pushing Parallels, not boot camp...and the sales floor is where it really matters. And it was one of their top sales points. This is mainly because they are focusing strongly on people jumping ship from windows. You can still run your windows software right along with the Mac software until you get your mac software built up. This is the only way they can get people to jump. Then when they jump they find out it was all lies. No...this was a flat out scam by Apple. No way around it.
while it's not notebooks, the statement holds mostly true for quad g5 vs quad xeon:
http://www.barefeats.com/quad16.html
Don't call me back. Give me a call back. Bye. So yeah. But bye our, well, but alright we are on a shirt this chill.
This seems to indicate that Photoshop runs significantly faster on the G4 compared to the Macbook Pro. (First Google search result for benchmarks macbook pro photoshop)
A binary blob is an opaque binary object from a 3rd party, for which no source code is available. To quote Jonathan Gray of the OpenBSD team: "Drivers that are binary-only or contain a binary-only portion (binary blob) run on the computer, in the computer's memory. They typically run at the most privileged security level possible due to their requirements to talk to system memory and the like. This gives them access to anything on your system, and if they screw up it can be a disaster.... People who use binary drivers become dependent on the vendors who provide them for fixing bugs and if a vendor decides to drop the driver, you're out of luck. Not running the latest hardware with the latest approved software? Sorry, too bad"
-- "At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1" -- PC Magazine, Nov. 1994
I love apple but they do this all the time. When I bought one of the rev A macbook pros and was running into problems with it overheating and the fans not turning on, they would remove all posts discussing that on their website. They are obnoxiously closed lipped when calling them directly as well, it is only engineers way up on the chain of command that have a clue what is going on and the steps that apple is taking to correct it. They wouldn't clue me in at all but out of nowhere one day there was a fix to download from their website. To answer your question, I'm sure they know and are trying to fix it but they are basically trying to cover it up until they have a fix for it. It's too bad really for those of us who are educated about computers because I wish they would just give us the truth about what they were doing. I would respect that a lot more than the way that they currently handle it. It probably stems from the level of secrecy they have to product releases that borders on psychotic...
Yes, how about that civil manner you were talking about, Sir?
This isn't a business situation and I'm not asking for anything. If I was asking for help, I'd likely be sweet as mollasses. OTOH, this fellow was being a prick, so I'm more than happy to call a spade a spade. However, since I'm flaming him, I can rightfully expect animosity in return. See how that works?
You should keep in mind that as an Apple customer, you are entitled to support.
Entitled? Did I miss a constitutional amendment or something? Support is offered by a company to maintain good customer relations, but don't ever make the mistake of thinking you're entitled to it. You are entitled to the warranty service as outlined by the company, but that usually amounts to replacing defective gear and nothing more. Anything else is, so to speak, out of the goodness of their hearts.
Yes, the writer may seem to be a little presumptive but text can be interpreted in many ways. You can't be sure if he really intended it to sound like the way it sounds in your ears.
Yes... It could be interpreted in many ways, but he clearly wasn't making any effort to be anything other than combative and accusatory. I don't expect any business to be friendly about that in an open forum.
What if he phoned Apple, told them the exact same thing and in the very same context? Would it be OK for Apple to hang up on him?
Would it be OK? I'm not judging whether anything that's happened was OK or not. I'm pointing out that people who act like asses from the get-go shouldn't expect a warm reception... which I'd hope everyone would have learned back in kindergarten.
Regardless, this was not a phone call. If he'd chosen to call them, I'd bet that he would've been a damned bit more respectful. Instead, this was a post in an open forum open to public scrutiny. Apple is well within their rights to remove random accusations from customers who haven't even bothered to consult them about a problem they're having.
Man, aren't slow sundays a gas?
"nVidia doesn't do Apple drivers."
To an extent Apple does do Nvidia Drivers. Nvidia doesn't distribute the drivers on their site; Apple only includes the drivers with OS X. If you want the update drivers you have to get them through Apple and Apple only. So, Apple has the grips on what can and cannot be distributed with OS X. Nvidia could release a patch or an update driver but not until is has been cleared by Apple.
Now what happens if you decided to re-install an older version of OS X on some older hardware. Now lets suppose that Apple doesn't support that release any longer. Now how do you get the latest or last release of that driver? You don't; you get stuck with the buggy one on the CD. Sorry to rant about it; but you have no recourse about drivers unless Apples says something about it. So, yes, they control the chain; so they do drivers. They may not code the driver or maybe very little; but they are in charge of the supply.
That is one of the few things that drive me up the wall about Apple; their total control of hardware as well as the drivers. Well, one last thing gets on my nerves; the anemic integrated video in the mac minis. Ok, rant mode is off now. Really it is.
Why do you need 3GB of RAM on a Mac? Granted I don't do much on my Macbook, but I get along just fine with the built in 256MB (and my Windows XP Media Center box runs fine on 1GB which I play my games on, do video & photo editing, share music on my home network, and record TV on).
Not to be confused with the much abused Tolkien Ring of Evil.
"...and in the darkness bind their hands behind their backs and stuff an apple in their mouths."
"there's nothing DRM-specific about the Intel architecture"
Actually, you're the one who is 'freaking nuts' as you like to say. The trusted platform module (tpm) that is an integral part of the intel architecture on both pc & mac.t ure#Trusted_Platform_Module
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple-Intel_architec
Microsoft had the foresight with Windows NT to make PHYSICAL_ADDRESS, representing a hardware-level memory address, a 64 bit value in kernel mode even on 32-bit platforms. This means that an issue like this is less likely to occur, since driver authors have that drilled into their head. This is why enabling PAE with the /PAE kernel command line option generally works without problems.
When there are problems with NT, they're generally caused by devices being physically unable to access addresses above 4 GB. However, such a case would be a driver bug because the driver can tell the kernel that such a limitation exists.
Melissa
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
In 32-bit Windows NT, you can enable PAE (paging address extensions) mode and the kernel can support more memory. No process can access more than 2 GB memory, but more than 2 GB can be accessed among multiple processes. This works fine because no 32-bit program will access more than 2 GB anyway.
(Yes, there is a mode to go from 2 to 3, but that has problems with newer video cards, and few programs support it.)
Melissa
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
While you are correct about the module being present, it is not currently enabled on any Apple hardware.
When CmdrTaco/Hemos disagree with the content, they just use permanently moderate it down. The moderation system is user-driven, but some users are more equal than others. The trick to posting here successfully is to never post something that CmdrTaco disagrees with. Many of you do that quite well.
read this information at your own risk.
Each time I have posted to /. with relevant information well outside what is commonly known, it has been modded down to a 0. There is much truth overlooked in the 0 Trolls.
Silly boys!!! Clearly this is not an Apple issue. They only write perfect code. Only Microsoft products crash! Why should any unclean heathen spoil the sanctity of all that is sacred and APPLE!
}
#endif
Yep...don't get me wrong from my original comment...I like my Mac. It's a great machine for a competitive price. There is just no excuse for all the lies that just end up costing people more time and effort in setting up a new system. I don't think that knowing any of this information up front would have changed my choice of computer but it certainly would have changed my plans for setting it up. I ended up scrambling to throw together a plan C when A and B both turned out to be bogus.
"And the music store only has DRM at the insistence of the record labels."
I don't believe that for a minute. My guess is that Fairplay is at least as much about keeping people using iPods as it is about preventing copyright infringement. If it weren't then Apple would have licensed it. More people buying from iTMS is a good thing, right? Not if you're more worried about selling your mp3 players than the music.
/. is one of the original power blogs. It carries a LOT more weight than is commonly assumed. As such, marketers are in here FUDing and modding what happens. As it is, I have seen ppl here (and at other sites) who are straight from the manufactuers. One that I am certain of, was on Linuxtoday, about 7 years ago, Novell decided to offer their LDAP stuff for free on MS and sell it on Linux. There were several ppl on the sites saying what a wonderful opportunity it was for Linux that Novell would sell their closed source approach. When I lit into the posting and pointed out Novell had it backwards and it would cost Novell the company, then I was pounced on. In fact, 2 ppl who had earlier pushed this as a great idea were suddenly ripping into me with data from marketing studies. After a few back and forth it was painfully obvious that there were 2 Novell marketers who were clueless about the markets and tech. In addition, they underestimated MS, much as they are doing it again.
Right now, I have little doubt that every major tech company's market staff has ppl here making sure of what is covered. In addition, the will pose as regulars who build up their karma so that they can control those who support or hurt them.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Do you always take a screenshot of your postings in case there is a conspiracy to stop you from speaking your mind?
"screenshot or it did'nt happen?"
Macsbug? The fuck? Nobody's used Macsbug since 2001. And Jasik? That old cunt is still doddering around with his overpriced debugger?
I think all your knowledge is about six years out of date. Drown in beige and die, PC user.
And now, a PSA from David Lynch.
Mac users, bless their idealistic souls, need not kid themselves. Apple is at least as evil as MS, but has not had the market share to demonstrate it as effectively. I was convinced of apples demonic tendencies a long time ago through two events: a) they allowed clones, then after deciding it wasn't such a great idea, drove the clone makers into bankruptcy and bought out their assets b) the 603e came out with bugs in it that made the first pentiums look fantastic. I had C programs that would compile 1 out of three times and run fine, but 2 out of three would crash randomly due to random errors the processor was making. Trying to learn a programming language on a platform that couldn't number crunch without getting 2+3 = 17 was impossible, so I went to the dark side and bought a pc. MS was evil too... so when redhat 7.3 came out I switched to linux. Unfortunatedly redhat has sold its soul as well... so the switch to Gentoo is going to be my next step, since everything after fedora 4 is bloody useless.
http://www.apple.com/getamac/drivers.html
/Sarcasm on
/Sarcasm off
"And you shouldn't have to go off on a scavenger hunt, searching doggedly for device drivers, so that your computer can see and get along with that shiny new peripheral."
"You can have absolute confidence in your Mac because it comes prepared with all the drivers you're likely to need for the peripheral devices one generally connects to computers. Thanks to Mac OS X, they're all there, so you don't have to give it a moment's thought."
So there, WHAT did you do? You went on a scavenger hunt while Apple said you shouldn't and it is very clear that you had NO CONFIDENCE whatsoever in your Mac. SHAME!
But noooo, you had to go and put 3 Gig of RAM in, like your running Vista! So if your having a PC attitude with your Mac, you got what you deserved!
Next time you want to whine about buggy drivers and your OS taking a crap you better be doing it on a PC, tinker boy!
Supporting MS products doesn't mean you have to like them.
I noticed when a friends ipod shuffle had an issue, the 'flashing lights of doom', I believe it was classified by the general populace. On the apple site, apparently the shuffle never suffered this problem, and any indication to there being an issue was promptly removed. You know the deal...A Mac never breaks down...total BS there, when a Mac dies, it dies in a marvellous way that a reboot can't fix :)
VMware Server doesn't seem that memory intensive with a VM (Win98SE) running over Linux, I've got 1G of DDR2 and I hardly ever touch the cache short of doing something stupid like running Opera/Linux with 50... oops, make that 65 open sub-windows.
Make that not all that memory intensive under normal operating conditions.
Would memory utilization be all that much worse under OSX?
Tech Public Policy stuff
Apple has chosen to take responsibility for sole distribution and release and thus support. That's what I mean by nVidia doesn't "do" Apple drivers. For other platforms, they distribute them directly, and they support them. However that's not the case for OS-X. Thus the proper channel to go through is Apple.
Also you'll have to excuse me if I don't trust you because of a random claim you make on the net. If I had a nickel for the number of people on the net claiming to have insider information on something and being full of it... Regardless the point is that telling the person it's not Apple's problem is wrong. It's similar to buying a Dell computer and the harddrive breaks. You don't call Maxtor or WD or whoever made it, you call Dell. They are supporting the whole package.
The keyword is currently.
"The Federal Reserve is a fraudulent system."--Lew Rockwell
End The FED. -
Apple sucks. There. I said it. I'm sorry, but I don't see a point to them. And don't you dare tell me because they are excellent for video and audio editing. I don't care. You can do it on Windows. It would be cheapy and easier. Don't bother trying to fight me on it, because you cannot win, and I do not care what you have to say. There is absolutely no reason to have a Mac. Ever.
Your analogy is just wrong. The tires are not part of the mechanics of the car. They can be replaced and have no influence on the mechanics that make the car a car. A problem with a third party mouse would be a fitting analogy to bad tires.
A better analogy would be a problem with an on-board computer in the car. And sure, the person could go to the manufacturer of the on-board computer, but why should they? Ford (my apologies to Ford... but continuing from your analogy) is the vendor of the package that is the car. We don't know what they might have had done to customize it to meet the needs of the specific vehicle design. And maybe it wasn't the on-board computers fault at all. Maybe it was something in the way it was connected or in the communication interface from the rest of the system. As a customer it is not reasonable to be expected to find the answers, so you go to the manufacturer of the car to get them to fix the faulty device. They can deal with the chip manufacturer because you paid the car company for a properly functioning product. The same is true when you purchase anything, including a computer. Just because you can troubleshoot computers you build doesn't mean you should have to when you purchase a computer. That is why you spend the incredibly big bucks that it costs to buy a Mac. It is supposed to work. And they are supposed to give good customer support.
Bottom line is you as a customer should never have to return or troubleshoot a part that makes up a piece of a larger product you purchased. The people who sold it to you (in this case Apple) should take the responsibility to fix it.
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
Apparently it wasn't obvious to you that most of those issues were with machines from the Classic era (hence MacsBug)--of course, now that Apple doesn't ship defective hardware as often, they just ship defective software instead. Radar is about as transparent as mud; better hope you're the first person to ever submit any given bug, or you'll never know the status of it, or even when it's fixed, since it's not like Apple provides useful changelogs...
How did you know they will remove your post? You definitely anticipated it because you made a screenshot beforehand. Could it be that they received and answered this question 100+1 times before?
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
That's what every actual test finds. That's why I ran out and got a G4 when I realised that CS3 was 12 months away last year :)
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
...you're a liar. Everyone knows that everything Apple makes Just Works®.
Sincerely,
Steve Jobs
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Seriously, you missed the most obvious reason. Who on earth REBOOTS the computer just to play a game? Hell, I'm too lazy to game on consoles as switching disks is too much of a hassle. Rebooting, snort.
If they have a problem in embedded processor? I don't think so.
The nvidia driver is to the Mac what the code managing the ABS is to my car. You think that Pep Boys is going to debug the ABS code? I'm not saying that Apple is right here, but since non FOSS tends to be rife with trade secrets and whatnot, be it ABS code, nvidia drivers, or the magical calculations that ensure my popcorn never burns, we're talking about a situation that exists pretty broadly - and likely exists in all of the products that you quoted.
Knoppix 5.02 tried to load nv onto my Biostar 6100AM2... and after what looked like several tries, loaded vesa... which got me to a working desktop. (which I couldn't manage with FC6 after a week of trying kmod-nvidia, drivers direct from Nvidia, different entries in xorg.conf, etc.) Luckily, somebody read my post on the nvidia forum and told me that Knoppix was using the same video configuration setup Debian Etch uses.
When I installed Debian Etch, the vesa driver loaded immediately and shortly after, I installed the Debian-packaged nvidia driver... and have had no video problems since.
I'd rather have used nv , but... if it doesn't work, there's no point.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Is nvidia too small and insignificant to fit into your personal universe?
While I won't label you troll or fanboy, I will state that you apparently don't know what the hell you are talking about. I'm sure you're used to people telling you that. You should listen to them, and in technical forums, listening is all you should be doing. Only rabid fanboys want to hear lame excuses for Apple.
Tech Public Policy stuff
You need to stop playing World Of Warcraft?
If I had mod points I'd mod it "-5 triple redundant". Do you HAVE to post the same damn comment THREE times, I think you took to the /. dupe idea rather well, but give it a rest.
The first time might have been informative, but now I think it is a bloody flamebait.
Mod him down at will.
What else do I "want"? ... well there are quite a few TV stations in the UK. offering downloadable "watch again" versions of their TV programmes and films for rent. Not available for Mac users of course because, according to their FAQs there is no viable OS-supported DRM video standard for the Mac.
I leave it to you to decide whether this is a good or bad thing.
See for instance Channel 4 on demand.
Will you offer 4oD for the Macintosh?
Unfortunately not at the launch of 4oD.
This is an industry-wide issue caused because the accepted Digital Rights Management (DRM) system used to protect online video content, which is required by our content owners, is not compatible with Apple Mac hardware and software. The closed DRM system used by Apple is not currently available for licence by third parties and there is no other Mac-compatible DRM solution which meets the protection requirements of content owners. Unfortunately, we are therefore unable to offer 4oD content to Mac users at this stage.
That's been my experience. When Windows fails, it's usually some strange registry corruption or chunk of spyware, taking down the entire system, and generally, you won't be able to fix it -- or it will be simpler and cheaper to reinstall the OS.
When Linux fails, either it's something in hardware (Linux seems to be more sensitive to bad RAM than Windows, which I consider to be a Good Thing), or it's something easily fixable -- not even by a kernel hacker, but by a competent admin with a little shell scripting ability. Even Gentoo isn't usually that hard to fix.
When OS X fails, it's going to be some annoying little thing. You'll contact Apple about it, they'll get back to you -- sometime this century -- and in the meantime, it'll piss you off enough to want to install Linux, or even Windows (if you're lucky enough to have an Intel Mac -- mine's PPC).
My bug is simple and stupid, and very annoying. My Powerbook has f1 through f10 or so mapped to hardware functions, which is actually quite nice, and I don't know if I'd easily get used to using the fn key to trigger those functions. That is, just hitting f1 would adjust monitor brightness (I think), whereas the alternative is having fn+f1 do that. But it also means that in order to pass it through to apps, or even the OS (other than hardware controls), I have to hit fn... So, to tell Expose to show me all windows, it's fn+f9.
Well, of course that was annoying as hell, and I often used Expose to peek in case something got lost -- my virtual desktops being buggy (still waiting on Spaces), often I'll accidentally move a window to another desktop and have it somehow bury itself under everything. Also, Adium has a habit of opening popup windows of any kind under what you're doing, which is nice, but a few kind of popups in particular don't trigger any notification (no growl, no sound, no duck bouncing in the tray), so the only way to see them is to hit Expose and check under your windows every few minutes to see if, say, someone had invited you to a chat, or sent you a file, or whatever.
So I mapped Expose to cmd+semicolon. Which is very nice on Dvorak, as the semicolon is where Z is on QWERTY -- looking on your keyboard, they are right next to each other (for PC people, that "Windows" key is the cmd key). The only problem is, the OS forgets this mapping every reboot. And, this being a Powerbook, I often just let it sleep -- for weeks at a time -- until an upgrade forces me to reboot, or I feel like showing off the Ubuntu livecd (or trying to get Linux to work again), or whatever. So it's not like this is part of my morning ritual -- boot computer, login, remap Expose. No, this is pretty random, and every time, it annoys the hell out of me.
Well, I submitted a detailed report on this issue. I would paste it here, but after digging up the original email, it seems that Apple places bug reports under a blanket non-disclosure agreement -- so certainly I may not paste their response here. However, I do know how to make a detailed and helpful report.
Their response: It's a known issue, currently being worked on by engineering. On the website, the bug's state is: Dupe. The website also confirms: I submitted this bug on July 25th, 20006. Their reply -- the email basically telling me it was a dupe, and that they're working on it -- came on September 22nd, 2006. As far as I know, the issue has not been resolved.
Frankly, I'm not surprised that Apple has been deleting bug discussion -- I don't know if they actually use their bug database for anything other than reassuring consumers that they know what's going on, but I now know that their standard response to bugs (or any flaw or deficiency) is to bury their head in the sand and pretend it never happened... until they fix the problem, and then claim it was always a good idea, and always what they were planning. Remember how they toted the G5's "Intel-crushing" performance (or was it "Pentium-crushing"? Whatever), before they suddenly switched to Intel, and now they're all a
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Just because the card is standard in his machine, it does not mean that Apple developed the drivers for it. If the way windows drivers are developed are any example, Nvidia submits drivers to apple which tests them and includes them in their OS. The driver would appear to be from apple (since its included with the OS or delivered through system updates), but is still developed by the hardware manufacturer in most cases.(basic 256 color vga drivers are the only exception).
It would be prohibitively expensive for Apple to develop all the drivers for all the hardware that works on their system including 3D graphics drivers for all ATI and Nvidia product lines that ship with Apple desktops and laptops. 3D Graphics cards are extremely complex pieces of hardware which require complex drivers to operate correctly. It is extremely unlikely that apple would have the financial resources to develop drivers for ALL 3D graphic cards (all product lines, product families, variants) from ALL manufacturers (ATI, Nvidia, SGI - not sure about Intel, Matrox and others) which ship standard with an Apple computer.
If you check out http://wiki.duskglow.com/tiki-index.php?page=Open- Graphics, you will find that they work on an open hardware design, at the moment based on a FGPA. That card will not be as fast as a current high end cards, so you are (for now) right about the performance.
But at least, it will be an alternative for when the age-old cards that have open drivers NOW are no longer available.
C - the footgun of programming languages
It's a toss-up. My new MacBook Pro is much faster than my old PowerBook. On the other hand, my old PowerBook never randomly refused to come out of suspend mode (or, if it did, closing the lid and opening it again fixed it; no data-loss). My old PowerBook didn't ever decide to reboot because I had closed the lid. My old PowerBook didn't kernel panic regularly, telling my that the ATi drivers had broken again (although it did have an ATi GPU). Oh, and my old PowerBook didn't need to run its fans quite so constantly to keep the CPU temperature at a sane level.
An incredible boon? No, just another step on Apple's gradual decline in quality.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
That's the CS3 Beta, you idiot. It's not running under emulation on Intel, it's native code, universal binary. It's also not out yet.
because in the old days, let me assure you, a post like yours would have been deleted and/or you would have been banned and/or marked 'troll' and/or 'bad karma', etc etc etc. anyone remember the 'bitchslap' code?
It's a trade secret that there are bugs in the NVidia driver code...
Not that I, or anyone I know likes DRM, but this is a perfect example of what the rabid haters of DRM conveniently choose to ignore. That in many cases, without DRM we would not have access to the content that we do, or have the choices we enjoy today.
I also think that excuse from Channel4 is pathetic. Apple have a vehicle for delivering content is a secure way -- iTunes.
Even when it is enabled it'll take a while for TPM-using software to come out and even longer for content to start using that. You can be pretty sure that TPM does NOT mean that they'll randomly start locking your word documents, it's about DRM and DRM is only used for delivering content into "hostile" territory. Unless you start downloading media from sources that insist on TPM it means exactly nothing.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Don't use the scientology thing to put slashdot down for censorship. When Scientology threatened to sue, they did delete the post, but they then posted a frontpage story about being forced to take the post down that was basically an extended critique of Scientology, complete with a huge list of links to sources about the abuses of scientology, xenu.net links, etc., including links to the very material that they had been forced to remove. The offending material, of course, was reposted in another comment (probably several times over) in the new discussion. The net effect was not censorship at all but a huge expose against scientology that was probably seen by half a million readers. The offending material was removed from a single comment on slashdot where it probably would have been ignored, but links to the same material along with a coherent explanation of many of the things wrong with the church of scientology was posted to the front page where it was read and discussed publicly by a much larger audience than would have ever been exposed to it. It was a victory for free speech, and it's unfair to criticize slashdot for censorship based on that example.
Seems a bit off to me, but why are all the comments on the forum I see you posted on. html )
( forums.appleinsider.com/archive/index.php/t-46888
Dated back in 2004?!?!?
JACK: I'm a recall coordinator. My job is to apply the formula. It's a story problem ... A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 miles per hour. The rear differential locks up ... The car crushes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now: do we initiate a recall?
... Which... car company do you work for?
JACK: Take the number of vehicles in the field, (A), and multiply it by the probable rate of failure, (B), then multiply the result by the average out-of-court settlement, (C). A times B times C equals X...
JACK: If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
WOMAN: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
JACK: Oh, you wouldn't believe.
WOMAN:
JACK: A major one.
Wake me up when I can run OSX on generic x86 hardware. You can't even run OSX in an emulator unless the host system is OSX running on Mac hardware. Geez, fanboy much?
Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
Known bug 1: Nvidia craps out when it accesses over 2G.
Known bug 2: Switching in and out of Warcraft leaks memory (Apple bug, not Blizzard)
Combine the two together and its only a matter of time before nvidia tries to access somewhere over 2G
If there is a known defect that Apple is aware of that could conceivably hit its financial outlook, are they not bound by data retention laws to NOT delete said communications? Otherwise would they not be fooling investors by not disclosing product failures etc.
This might be a stretch but surely they cannot just delete the data if it concerns a potential investor issue?
Be alert, the world needs more lerts.
First nvidia chipset for intel had a bug, bit31 of usb memory BAR was not decoded properly so usb could only use memory below 2GB. Nvidia's reference bios would always re-map any physical memory above 2GB to be above 4GB. If apple is trying to use ram above 2GB in the address range of 2GB-4GB and they are using the buggy version of the nvidia southbridge then you can get random hw hangs as the usb controller trashes memory. This is just one of the many serious hardware bugs in this chipset.
Wow, such a hostile response to my comment.
It seemed pretty logical to me.
Fact: There is a *known* bug between nVidia, Apple, and three gigs of ram that is a "show stopper".
Fact: Apple is actively trying to cover this, or at least not deal with this issue, by removing support requests about it.
Fact: There is apparently no fix in site. This is extrapolated from the above.
Therefore, there are only three solutions:
1) Suck it up and deal with the crashing
2) Take out 1/3 of your RAM
3) Buy a video card from the competition
I'm not trolling or trying to incite flames. It's fairly obvious to me, if company A doesn't have their crap together, you take your business to company B.
To my knowledge, I wasn't wailing on nVidia, and I'm sorry if you took it that way. Just the other day I was considering an nVidia card for my next upgrade. I have nothing against them. I've had issues with reliable hardware on both sides of the fence (though I admittedly have had more trouble on the nVidia side ever since my geforce 2 mx400 gave up the ghost. What a great card that was, "back in the day").
That aside, if nVidia is serious about selling to the Mac crowd, I would suggest that it *IS* their problem. This doesn't mean it is not Apple's problem too, far from it. Of course, this is looking at it from the business side of things. Looking at it from the tech support side, yes it's all Apple's problem if they are the driver providers and maintainers.
Mac Pros come with the ATI video card as an option, not standard. The standard video card is an NVIDiA.
I own a Mac Pro. I ordered it without any customization. The video card is an NVIDIA. The card inside my Mac Pro is an NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB RAM and is the standard video card offered for the Mac Pro at the time of this article.
Not sure where you are getting your information.. But on the Store (www.apple.com) Mac Pros come with ATI as option, NVIDIA standard.
The ATI card is an (costly) option if you want to customize your Mac Pro.
We weren't talking about Linux, were we?
/. mods today) This does not mean I dislike, hate, or am "ragging on" nVidia or ATI. If I'm ragging on anything, it's Linux-in-general's (lack of) friendliness to new users migrating from Windows.
And talking as a completely newbie to Linux, I've not had any luck with either ATI nor nVidia in stalling card-specific drivers. The only thing that would work is what was provided from the distro's installation. (Now a disclaimer for all the apparently very sensitive
You deal with this by giving the "content producers" two choices: 1) Release non-DRM content in a customer-friendly way, suffer a minor amount of unauthorized copying, but still make lots of $$$ 2) Release no content at all -- take every music recording and every video and lock them up in a safe somewhere and throw away the key, since this is the only chance (outside of skilled safecrackers) that no one will ever obtain an unauthorized copy, and make absolutely no $$$.
For some reason we have collectively decided to allow a third option, which is where we act like their "content" is our crack habit and since we forgot how to make our own entertainment, we just can't live without it. Therefore, we think it's perfectly acceptable to give third parties any degree of control over our information systems in exchange for a few movies and some songs. Makes about as much sense as trading liberty for security but people are still willing to do both due to stupidity.
The "content producers" seem to have forgotten that they need us a hell of a lot more than we need them. We can survive without them; they could not survive one day without us to buy what they produce. I would much rather remind them of this fact and quit trying so hard to forget that ourselves. This isn't really about music or video or whether you download it or buy a copy at the brick-and-mortar store; this is about rights and the erosion thereof, particularly your right to control your own systems. The *AA's involved have repeatedly shown that they have no problem playing hardball -- we are going to lose our rights if we are unwilling to do the same.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
Oh, I'm not saying Apple shouldn't fix the drivers. In fact, they SHOULD. It's just that it appears they have no intention of doing it anytime soon. At least from ther response to support posts about it. So if the guy wants to play games with out the crash, and without waiting for who-knows-how-long, he should just go ahead and buy an ATI.
When did you stop using ATI? I haven't seen an issue (at least any long-standing issues) with their drivers for the last 5 years I've had an ATI card. Honestly, I've had just a lot of issues with both ATI and nVidia hardware, with only slightly more from nVidia. So I do tend to lean ATI when looking at cards (that, and I'm more familiar with their performance capabilities.), but that doesn't mean I won't consider an nVidia card (in fact I was just the other day. Haven't bought anything yet.).
If you had calmed your need to post a smarmy remark for a few moments, you may have noticed that the article is referring to a *desktop* computer, not a laptop.
$ uname -a
Darwin Eris.local 8.8.0 Darwin Kernel Version 8.8.0: Fri Sep 8 17:18:57 PDT 2006; root:xnu-792.12.6.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC Power Macintosh powerpc
And from the Sytem Information utility :
GeForce FX 5200:
Chipset Model: GeForce FX 5200
Type: Display
Bus: AGP
Slot: AGP
VRAM (Total): 64 MB
Vendor: nVIDIA (0x10de)
Device ID: 0x0329
Revision ID: 0x00b1
ROM Revision: 2103
I'm running a windows system with 3Gb of memory, and an Nvidia video card. The extra Gb comes in handy when working in Photoshop or Cinema 4D. However, it will cause just about any game you can mention to lock up. I have to have a switch in my boot.ini file so that at system boot up, I can choose a system configuration that works with games and just about everything else, but basically does not use that last gig of RAM at all, or I can choose a configuration that makes the last Gb available, but will not allow any game to function, at all. Cinema 4D, which does use OpenGL rather aggressively, does not seem to tip the graphics driver over in the same way that games do - it must manage memory differently.
W So soft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /usepmtimero soft Windows XP More Memory" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /3GB /usepmtimer
I realize this doesn't have much to do with the original poster's problem (he's on OS X) but it does seem more than coincidental that going past 2Gb of memory causes issues on both platforms, with the only common denominator being the presence of an Nvidia card and associated drivers.
Here is my boot.ini for anyone who has a similar set up and wonders what to do about the issues:
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDO
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Micr
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Micr
planet texture maps and more
English is not my native language, mr Anonymous Coward
Ga even fijn een hondenreet likken tot ie bloedt.
Supporting MS products doesn't mean you have to like them.
http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/
Good work guys! Keep working.. show what Apple has inside (a lot of bugs) =P
Music is the sedative for mind...
About a year ago I updated Quicktime on 10.3. Several of my applications failed to compile due to link error. After several days of searching and trying to get an answer I found a tool to remove the most recent Quicktime update. "Why would you want to remove the update?" There is NO information at Apple about the fact that they released a version of Quicktime with link libraries for 10.4 only. What bothers me is that Apple will not admit the error. I have had a great experence with Apple. I just need to keep my eyes open. If it was not for MS we would be ruled by Apple.
Apple's poor quality control for har disks is a bigger problem. I've seen enoumous numbers of bad hard disks from Apple. For other examples see here:
http://ask.metafilter.com/mefi/53999
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
The Real Time Zone. Pacific Time. The default time zone of Windows.
The masses are the crack whores of religion.
hmm... When the PowerMacs first came out, they only worked with specific memory from a specific manufacturer. I had the
original Dual processor 2.0Ghz G5. well, when I discovered a memory timing issue I was able to return the box for full
credit and got a Dual Core G5 with PCI/Express slots. I used standard Corsair PC-4200 memory when I upgraded to 4GB or RAM
and have had no problems. I looked at the design of the new Intel MacPRo.. I decided that I would rather stay with my trusty
G5 dual core. It runs Linux and OS/X well, I haven't had any lockups at all. I just wish the NVIDIA drivers were open source so
I can get 3D with Linux. For now I need two boxes, my AMD barton based PC Shuttle, and my Dual Core G5, both connected to my
belken USB/audio KVM.
My son managed to get OS/X running on his AMD Dual Processor Clone! My G5's Disk I/O is faster, We are still comparing CPU/Memory
video speed. Some benchmarks his box is faster, but not all.. even though his cpu clock speed is faster my box beats many of his
benchmarks. I've always been a fan of the PowerPC CPU. And at work, I use it's big brother, the P5.. it's a kick ass processor.
I would like to see Apple use the P6 processor for new designs. That would be awesome!
They *could* debug it, if it was open. Jesus, why is that hard to understand?
How we know is more important than what we know.
Neither likes any negative publicity and will do what they can to stifle public discontent.
Sorry for this off-topic post, but I don't know of any other way to contact martyb. I'm curious what your name is because martyb happens to be my login name at work (my last name and first initial). Is Marty your last name or first name?
OK then, show me another North American-run online music store that has major label content and no DRM, smartypants.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
I haven't had a single problem since, even though now I only have 512 Mb of RAM.
All the memory checking utilities that I ran did not find anything wrong with this memory. But I guess they don't stress it like games do.
I read the post placed at Apple Discussions. It says "crap out and KPs my machine"
I'm not a native english speaker, but isn't "crap" an offensive word?
If so - many companies, including mine, have policies about offensive language on user forums.
It might be the reason for removal.
--
Tomek
This [zdnet.com] seems to indicate that Photoshop runs significantly faster on the G4 compared to the Macbook Pro. (First Google search result for benchmarks macbook pro photoshop)
Yeah, the MacBook Pro is running a Mac version of PS under Rosetta EMULATION. The comparison was bogus - if you want real numbers, compare against a Windows version of PS running on a quad core Intel box.
I've got a Mac Pro as my primary machine now, with 3 GB of RAM in it. My keyboard has never, ever, ever bounced a key, ever. Its in use for 12 hours / day for 4 months now.
And as I write this, I have 3 Parallels' VMs open, all running Visual Studio with different client's code bases in each one. Works like a dream. Better than any development setups I ever had on a PC.
And yes, I run Adobe CS2 on my Mac Pro with no problems. Incidentally, I also run WoW on it with no problem, I just have to be sure to close all my VMs first to make sure there's a good chunk of memory available for it.
Sounds like yours is broken IMHO... Mine doesn't do any of that.
How many computers are too many?
It should be painfully obvious that very few commercial software houses care that much at all about _real_ bugs. They care most about "this button isn't in the right place" or "this should have a shortcut key" rather than actually making sure their software works.
For example, the new Inten Mac simply DOESN'T WORK. Because of the overheating problem, I can't leave mine on for more than 6 hours without the hard drive starting to sound like a jackhammer. It takes MORE than SIX HOURS to make a freakin full-length DVD! Therefore, I can't make DVDs on my mac. $3000 paperweight.
(And when I took it back to the apple shop to fix it, they wiped my hard drive without warning me and cleaned out about 3 months of video and web work, bastards.)
They care about keeping the "brushed metal" look, not making sure the damned machine can run long enough to make a freakin dvd. Screw Apple.
-dave
6th Street Radio @ddombrowsky
Am I missing something, or is it impossible for you to have an nVidia graphics card in your Mac Book Pro? If you could update it to 3GB of RAM, that means that you have a Core 2 Duo based MacBook (second generation.) Apple only uses ATI Radeon x1600 cards in the MacBook pro line of computers.
Long story short, your post was probably pulled because it's INACCURATE.
"Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
Well, it could be the basis of a parody, since the painting you're referencing is copyrighted.
"I'm guessing you could use Illustrator on your old Mac(?)"
Man, that's quite the straw man you built there, but let's get back to my situation shall we?
I was in the target group for this scam...overdue for a major upgrade of my windows box and decided to switch to Mac because they had supposedly made it so easy. No Prob...just run my old windows software in parallels until CS3 comes out, right? Just like all the Apple reps told me I could. oops...they lied. ok...next solution...just do a gross platform upgrade on my adobe to hold me over til CS3 comes out. Oops! Well imagine that. Two major programs that make the mac a good choice are actually lies...ok...um...running out of plan Bs here...
So no...the blame falls squarely on Apple for Lying about this.
My name is Pink Tinkletini and I'm an elitist asshole
The real time zone is, by definition, the one with the zero offset. All your strange UTC[+-][1-9][0-9]? time zones are clearly derivative.
Time was invented in Britain, at Greenwich, and you colonials should considers yourselves lucky that we let you carry on using it.
Actually, you're the one who is 'freaking nuts' as you like to say. The trusted platform module (tpm) that is an integral part of the intel architecture on both pc & mac.
The TPM is such an integral part of the Intel Architecture no both PC and Mac that it's not even included on the latest Mac hardware, such as the Core 2 Duo iMac, the Mac Pro, or any of the Core 2 Duo portables.
"The power of Steve compells you! The power of Steve compells you!"
Didn't you hear? OS X is perfect; it does not have any bugs --- or so my graphic designer will claim.
(I'm kidding, Jerry, I'm kidding.)
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
> As for the iPhone, I can't argue there - I can only hope that Apple will come to its senses in the next six months, and open it up for public development.
screw it. the ipod is closed, and so we don't have any tird party crap. And yet, you can run linux on the damn thing.
i just wishes that people start doing this kinda of time waste on better hardware. ipod is just crap for it's price. And so iphone.
also, everyone knows that their products are so closed because they know everyone could do better software then they can.
At least that's the case for every MBP I can find from the original series. It's also the case with their website specs.
Maybe your post was deleted because you were just trying to sound technical, when you couldn't even be bothered to click "About this Mac"?
-WS
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
From the Apple store: "Please note: Selecting the ATI Radeon X1900 XT may delay the shipment of your Mac Pro." The only other option is the 7300, or the $1649 Quadro FX 4500. I don't see an option on the site for 3GB of ram, though. 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, etc. Anyway, most people will be purchasing the Mac Pro with a 7300 card, both saving money over the ATI and avoiding the "delay" of shipment.
I for one welcome our time inventing British colonial overlords
Never put down to conspiracy what can be explained by incompetence.
It could also have something to do with the entirely snarky attitude of your post. Next time, try stating facts and asking for help instead of being sarcastic and finger-pointy about it. It's really amazing how tech support people DON'T react well to bullying.
I'm still going for incompetence, though.
Blizzard's synopsis, while it may be technically correct isn't guarenteed to be so because they aren't Apple or Nvidia. Asking whether or not it is true before assuming it to be fact may be advantageous to your case.
You indicate that there may be a power struggle, which is just bad for business. I'm not sure if the forum is a public forum, but people don't typically walk into a Barnes and Noble and exclaim "Wow, you and Addison Welsy must have some real issues!" even if it's true. I'm sure that Apple will figure something out, if this continues I would definately use what you have on your warranty to get a replacement. Something to note: it could be related to the ram you purchased. I have had a similar sounding problems with 3rd party ram on other laptops over the years and, and yes I too was mad.
Have you see this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/19/pasemi_app le/
r e_ti/
2Ghz at 7watts.
They also have plans for 16 cores.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/17/pasemi_co
I concur, this new article is ridiculous. "Stuff that matters"?? Sure... deleted thread postings fucking matter. They're all I really care about anymore.
Give me a break...
So if you are so scared about the TPM chip, buy a new Mac, because they are no longer in them .
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
Now I know why they call it Greenwich Mean Time. Sheesh!
Man, you really need that seminar!
Posting as an AC, but with an actual link! I have several times reported bugs to http://bugreport.apple.com/ and received updates as the issue progressed. Granted, these were not highly technical steps that required knowledge of the terminal, the memory stack, or anything high-end such as that. It was something that an everyday user could do in an everyday situation that would cause problems for an everyday user.
I'm not saying Apple doesn't look at "deeper" problems as readily, but if you need to be an OS developer to even set up the test case... well, I'd imagine that an iTunes bug would take precedence since the people that use iTunes vastly outnumbers OS developers.
OK then, show me another North American-run online music store that has major label content and no DRM, smartypants.
amazon.com
Let's back up here a bit. This all happened back in August of last year...long before all these great posts you read all over the place. But the parallels/mac pro problem wasn't just a bit buggy. It caused kernel panics every time anyone tried use it on any mac pro. It was dead, dead, dead for months while the whole Apple team was pushing it like mad on an unsuspecting public. And all information on it at the time was well buried. But Apple knew. No way they could have avoided knowing. It's one thing to sell a product with a few bugs. We have all come to expect that. But deliberately selling a solution that flat doesn't work under any circumstances is way over the line. Apple lied. That is the bottom line. Fact is, even today the fact that parallels was dead on the mac pro is news to the vast majority of the /. crowd. I wasn't the only one caught on this one by a long shot. There are even people in here faulting me for not digging through all the forums on the web sites of every piece of software I buy. Complete nonsense.
I experience a similar bug with Linux kernel 2.6.17, 1.5 GB RAM, nVidia driver 9746. Haven't seen anything useful from the usual sources. Using 800 MB of Ram lessens the problem. Error messages generated just before the freeze always list memory addresses. I'm hoping a driver update will "fix" this and not introduce new bugs.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
welcome to my foes list.
Don't call me back. Give me a call back. Bye. So yeah. But bye our, well, but alright we are on a shirt this chill.
I was befuddled this past summer as to why I couldn't view network shares on Windows PCs at my work site using my PowerBook over a secure wireless network. Just now, I found out that Samba has been broken since at least 10.4.7, and Apple still hasn't fixed it, but there is a supposed workaround posted here:2 6956
http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=
This sort of thing really pisses me off, as Apple continues to sell new machines that are advertised as being fully compatible with Windows networks. Has anyone re
Sent from my iPhone
"name me one thing that Apple has done that involves DRM, besides the iTunes Music Store. You can't"
i've been an emphatic mac user for about a year and a half. and i can tell you it's annoying as hell that OS X forbids you from taking screen captures of a dvd you're watching in DVD player. totally idiotic implementation of DRM.
--of course there's no such thing as fair use of a single frame of a motion picture, and nobody ever wants to screen capture content from their own dvd content, right.
you can probably screen-cap with VLC. i'm tired and i forget. all the same the DRM is there.
a much more flagrant example is the native prohibition against copying mp3s from your ipod to your computer. even a per-5-computers "licensing" scheme would be better than that, though still contemptible.
Something other than the truth that is.
Why would you take a screen-capture of a post you made in a forum, unless:
a) You never did, but you instead manipulated an image in Photoshop to make it appear that you did.
b) You posted something that you knew would be removed because it ran afoul of some regulation, and you wanted to turn it into a scandal.
c) Were really REALLY anal about recording your every move you make on the internet so that future generations of internet users had full details of your 773t skillz.
Basically, bring it down to this. Who has more motivation in this instance? Someone with a vendetta against Apple, or Apple risking a scandal?
RTFA troll. They test BOTH CS3 and CS2 on Mac Pro Quads and G5 Quads.
Jesus, is the title really all you looked at?
Only CS3 was faster for Intel, for all but one test.
bberens, time to wake up to get schooled
http://osx86project.org/
http://insanelymac.com/
Irrelevant to the statement "That's the CS3 Beta, you idiot. It's not running under emulation on Intel, it's native code, universal binary. It's also not out yet." They tested both. Had you said "The article shows CS2 slower on nearly all tests", kudos. Instead, you were an idiot.
I guess you're right. Then again, I do like flaming people.
If a modern Mac is kernel panicking EVER, you've got a serious issue under the hood.
/Library/ folder (which would result in PPC drivers and kexts from your old Mac getting shoehorned into the clean system).
1. You have bad memory
2. You have a f-ed up or non-Intel compatible device driver or kernel extension/prefpane loaded
3. Your OS install is corrupt
I've seen this a ton of times when experienced Mac users get their hands on their new toy. They install their old versions of DiVX, APE, Adobe Bridge, scanner drivers, Quicktime extensions old HP all in one 3 gig "printer drivers" or just do something rash like copying over their entire
Friends don't let friends transplant their cobwebs between machines.
Back up your users folder (and ONLY your users folder), nuke & pave, and use the migration assistant to move the old account over to the clean system. Don't copy them by hand.
Then get the absolute latest drivers for your devices (only get Intel/Universal compiled drivers, prefpanes and kexts) and do NOT install Adobe Bridge CS2.
Do this, and unless you've got crap RAM, you'll have a clean system that doesn't flake out on you.
Ever try report a bug to apple? Me. "Hi Apple, this thing is broke and here is why and even how to fix it." Apple. "You need to pay for a support incident." Me. "This isn't me asking for help, this is me reporting a bug and a bug fix." Apple. "You need to pay for a support incident." Me. "Are you freaking insane?" Apple. "You need to pay for a support incident." Me. "Are you reading from a script? You aren't some fancy machine are you? Let me talk to a supervisor or something." Apple. "You need to pay for a support incident."
Suffices to say, I don't use Apple products much anymore.
/\/\icro/\/\uncher
Please don't blame the wrong company. It's Apple who deleted the post and Apple who is responsible for supporting this driver. Even if NV's Windows drivers are open source, Apple will still makes that decision for Mac drivers.
I almost forgot.
/Applications/Utilities/Console.app and take a look at your crash logs. This will tell you what software is taking down the system if you don't feel like committing to a full nuke & pave (although, to achieve a pristine system you really really really should).
You can go to your
If ATI drivers are coming up and erroring out, they got loaded in there somehow, which means that you have other cobwebs in there deep.
Best of luck,
droog
World of Warcraft Expansion comes online tonight at Midnight EST. 8 million people worldwide disagree with you on the most important time zone ATM :)
"welcome to my foes list."
Oh Noes teh Foes!!!
I know, and what's sad is Apple could have become the first, they still could (with the massive market share they have) but they don't... I have 5 ipod devices (ipod, shuffle, nano, etc) for my 5 household members, none of us use the ITunes store because of the DRM involved. If I am paying for a song I should be able to play it on any device, like my son's Zen.
I inquired as to the NVidia driver similarly and my message is still there. Further, a search of the Apple forums yields a number of articles with regard to the bug.
I don't know why your message disappeared, but your assumption doesn't seem to be valid.
The interesting thing is that this even works for Windows! (There are only two reasons why Windows is less stable than OS X: the first is that it gets run on lower-quality hardware (often with lower-quality drivers), and the second is malware.)
I did have some Finder problems from a context menu plugin that didn't play nicely with Intel, but I've now deleted all Finder plugins. However, nothing that doesn't run in ring 0 should be able to cause a kernel panic, and so far they have mostly happened when Parallels has not been running, so I blame Apple.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Still doesn't explain why your machine is getting registered as needing the ATI drivers at boot (hint, it didn't come from the factory like that if you got it new).
Blame Apple all you want, but it won't help solve your problem. Nuking & paving WILL likely solve all the problems you're having unless it's a deep-seeded hardware thing, in which case you should nuke & pave to make sure so you can get the 'book back to the repair depot while you're still covered under warranty.
If you talk to Apple support or go to a genius bar, they'll send you a replacement machine after just a minute or two if you describe going thru the process I mentioned in detail.
Remember, though. It's IBM that's the Lord of the Token Rings, not Apple.
We are the 198 proof..
As if that changes anything -- the record companies may also want it, but one of Apple's reasons for using it is clearly to limit people to using their hardware. If it weren't at all for that, then why would they do it, smartypants?
MBP uses ATI, not NVidia
I bet you wish you could delete your message, now, because he said "Mac Pro" not "Macbook Pro".
You can claim censor but in reality it qualifies as a cover-up. Not necessarily by the removal of the post on their forums but by the mac-addicts here.
I own a few Macintosh computers and have over the years. The reputation Apple had over the years was amazing but to hear about this bothers me greatly.
Hell, bugs are bugs. Just address them as bugs. Who cares about what nVidia says. Address the problem to the customer who paid you for the product. It is that simple. Don't start claiming Apple has the right to censor their boards. They do, but they should not--actually never should. It is indicative of a company with something to hide, such as an inability to provide a fit product that they sold this paying customer. If the product is bad and Apple knows it Apple has to come clean about it instead of hiding it and covering it up.
Potentially this could mean thousands if not 100s of thousands of customers coming back for a swing at Apple. The mac addicts that are here defending the policy of covering up the flaw is ridiculous.
Considering that Apple has had some very questionable moral conduct concerning the shares/options this seems to fit right in with that same behavior. We can call this Apple-Gate because literally this is a cover-up. It hurts the consumers while protecting Apple.
Apple needs to come out on this issue, explain why they took the post down, fix the problem, and apologize to the poor soul they have suffered this upon.
I'm a mac user and I say you guys defending this cover up just suck.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
When Linux fails, either it's something in hardware (Linux seems to be more sensitive to bad RAM than Windows, which I consider to be a Good Thing), or it's something easily fixable -- not even by a kernel hacker, but by a competent admin with a little shell scripting ability. Even Gentoo isn't usually that hard to fix.
When Mac OS X fails, either it's something in hardware, or it's something easily fixable -- not even by a kernel hacker, but by a competant admin with a little shell scripting ability.
At least if it had been Linux with a stupid keybinding problem, I could fix it myself -- and I'm no expert, but it would take me less than a fucking year to fix it.
Did you even try? OS X is UNIX, it's got all the UNIX shells and pretty much all the configuration is in files you can edit automatically if you have "a little shell scripting ability".
In this case it sounds like a startup script to poke an NSUserKeyEquivalents entry in ~/Library/Preferences/.GlobalPreferences.plist would be the UNIX way to do things.
When it Just Works, it's beautiful, and when it Just Doesn't, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.
Wehn it Just Works, it's beautiful, and when it Just Doesn't, it's no harder to fix with "a little shell scripting" than Linux. If you CHOOSE to treat it as a black box, that's YOUR problem, not Apple's.
"Apple switched because IBM was not able to deliver a PowerPC laptop chip that met modern performance targets (yes, we all know the G5 was fast, but it also sucked down power and spewed out heat)."
You buy that? You must've been a good boy then and drunk down ALL the Kool-Aid.
The real reason why they went Intel? Better deal. Cheaper processors. Going to one company to produce one type of processor that (even with all the Xbox 360s/PS3s/Wiis in the world) is still vastly outproduced in mass quantities by good old x86 would be stupid.
So, Apple did what any company would do: keep 2 versions of OS X on the boiler. When IBM started charging more for the chips (right around the first new console launch, by the way) they could turn around and say "Guess what, we don't need you." My gut is that IBM called their bluff (their stock was going up with all these new contracts involving PowerPC-esque tech) and Apple was forced to ship with Intel.
Not that it's necessarily a bad decision. Intel chips are very fast and they are certainly cheap. But that price per watt garbage? Please...
If you forked over $1300 for a brand new notebook, and treated it like with the utmost care, you'd probably be concerned if the plastic got "stained" just by using it with clean hands after just a few weeks... And if you read that hundreds of other people had the same problem, you'd probably be upset, too! I bought my Macbook the day they came out, and the palmrest had turned from white to dark grey within 10 days.
You remember the story, but do you remember the conclusion? Apple admitted to a manufacturing defect (where they neglected to apply a coating of some chemical), and repaired the affected machines, including mine. Now it's been over 6 months, and still looks like new.
BTW, to the people talking about Intel vs PowerPC, it's not really entirely a question of efficiency or of benchmarks, but differences in the chip architechure itself. PowerPC chips follow a more RISC-like style where they rely a lot on, well, let's just call them shortcuts (in a good way.) That lets them get certain tasks done a lot more quickly. In particular, certain really repetitive tasks (like graphics processing) tend to be done quite efficiently this way. On the other hand, x86 architechure relies on pure speed. By running at insanely high speeds, they are able to do things like branches better. It's also easier to program for in some ways since you can usually just sort of brute force something while with RISC-type processors you have to optimize things a little more typically. That said, if I had to choose between the two at the same speed, I'd pick PowerPC if I didn't have to give up having a PC to do it. Put in just a bit of optimizations and the PowerPC chip comes out ahead if both run at the same speed.
IMO Apple chose to go to Intel architechure for the sake of trying to get more customers. I think it's their hope to make it easier for people to switch now that they can run Windows and their favorite software on an Apple computer, but as they said, it's their intention that the software not run as well so that ultimately people will end up using Mac OSX and the equivalent software for it. I'm not sure how well it really can work though. I think they should have stuck to PowerPC since that was, after all, one major thing that gave Apple the advantage since it was so great at multimedia processing and such.
Did you even read the summary? When the parent said "STFU and take it" he meant the attitude, not bugs. No one is talking about bugs here. Bugs are everywhere and we always have the expectation that they will be fixed; and when we pay for software, we tend to have a very strong such expectation. But that is totally besides the point. What is happening here is that Apple is suppressing and ignoring bug reports, all because (I can only assume) it helps their bottom line to treat you guys as their personal cash pile, rather then a community which is capable of providing meaningful feedback and, on occasion, a bug fix! So, again, if you don't like being treated in that manner, don't use the bloody proprietary software. And if proprietary software is so great, then stop bitching about defect cover-ups: if it protects the shareholders, it must be good, eh?
Pacific time? No way! I've never even been to the west coast. I'm not even sure it really exists. I think California is probably no more real than Middle Earth. Isn't the Federation Academy on the "west coast," too? So now Star Trek is a documentary? God, I hate nerds.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Thank you, that was the point I was fishing for them I started this thread, I bless you for your wisdom, wise one.
Horns are really just a broken halo.
You mean like all the 4GB Windows boxes that run WinXP (which was hard-coded in SP2 to limit itself to 3GB)?
Maybe Apple is copying Microsoft? MS should sue 'em. They probably have a patent on wasting user memory.
Are people still measuring raw performance in GHZ?
Slow Down, Cowboy! It's been 60 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment.
"show me another North American-run online music store that has major label content and no DRM"
http://www.bittorrent.com/
And the best part is their subscription price.
DISCLAIMER: yes I know Bittorrent is NOT a real online music store. It's called humor so, Lighten Up Francis...
"But this one goes to 11!"
Ok, that's enough. I won't stand for that kind of Appletalk around here.
"But this one goes to 11!"
I very much doubt there is any conspiracy here. Take a look at all of the "This is dangerous! It should be recalled!" comments posted about the MagSafe power adapters in Apple's own online store. If Apple doesn't care about that, I don't think they'd be concerned with an obscure video driver bug.
Actually I am all about assigning blame where it lies. Apple has made some down right bad software decisions, and they deserve the blame for that. BUT they do not deserve blame for an early adopter being inconvenienced. Inconvenience and incompatibility is the price of being an early adapter, no matter what the platform. No one forces you to be an early adapter, mactel still doesn't offer much more in functionality over the PPC versions.
Granted I think they phased out traditional hardware to fast, meaning switchers and people with dead hardware ARE forced to use a new system that still isn't fully supported.
Partly, btw, this is just me. I don't think ignorance of flaws is an excuse, we're geeks, we research our tech, and we should damn well know what we're getting into. A quick Google search would have shown that his critical app sucked under rosetta, and that mactels have some deficiencies still. Hell the guy at the apple store told me my new mactel would run Photoshop better under rosetta ("longer boot, but the program seems to run faster once its running"), with no mention of Word becoming so unstable to be unusable, and the processor driven graphics slowing down to a chop when running a process, and using expose on multiple windows, that even a core duo could bog easier than a G4 or G5 at lower clock speeds. But, I figured there would be problems such as these. Caveat Emptor, and all.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
Since the bug seems to be quite reproducible under relatively well known conditions, then the action that would make the most sense would be :
- write a small program exhibiting the bug
- publish it on the internet, send it to several tech bloggers and newspapers as well as slashdot (don't forget to mention Apple's thread deletion)
- wait for about one month for Apple to fix the bug under media pressure
Apple deletes the bug threads because it knows that as long as the problem is not an easily reproducible one, the media won't bother them too much about it.
But should a hacker release a proof of concept program demonstrating that any Mac Pro with more than 3GB of RAM can be kernel panicked by a simple user program will cause them to act.
I will I'm at it, I have to say that I like Apple tools (I switched from the PC one year ago and bought a macbook, an ipod nano, an imac 20 since then), but I really despise the way Apple treats its customer. So far, I stay with them because Apple products are (according to my set of criterions) globally superior to the competition but if Steve Jobs doesn't change is set of mind sooner or later, they'll count me out of the party.
Apple is currently not a better economic citizen than Microsoft is, only their small market share prevents them from doing real evil, I'm quite sure that as soon as they will be a major player we will be able to clearly see the limits of Steve Jobs "enlighted tiranny" on product evolution and consumer support/respect.
This has happened to me. I went overboard like the author of this article and posted a very critical reply in a support thread. Apple not only deleted my post but barred me from posting for several months with no notification.
So I took the time to read Apple's posting guidelines. More than that I tried to read between the lines to see what it is Apple's support forums are trying to be. And, I had to agree with Apple. Whether I "liked" their response or not, it made the appropriate impression.
People get pissed off when their technical junk doesn't work, but knee-jerk reactions do no one any good. The author's post was inappropriate for the atmosphere Apple is trying to create in its forums.
The best way to deal with Apple's forums is to ask short, exploratory questions. Explain your problem and ask if it is a known issue. In the author's case, he was asking Apple about a bug he saw in Warcraft, not one that appears to affect the whole system. But he could test this easily by allocating 2GB of RAM and then running any OpenGL software on his system - like Chess for example.
If he has indeed gone to these lengths, the next thing to do is to ask Apple if they know about it. The issue will go up the chain and get tested, and if Apple can release a patch, they will. It will happen on their time, in tandem with all the other issues they face. If it turns out to be a wide-scale problem without a software fix then Apple will offer a replacement to affected customers. (This is what they did with the problematic G4 power supplies in 2001, and there are many other examples.)
So overall, the author should have simply limited his comments to: "Hey I have this problem and it seems to be.... Just thought you should know." and then just do himself a favor and restart his machine before playing 3D games.
Frankly, it sounds more to me like he has a bad RAM stick.
-- thinkyhead software and media
Back when apple had a boat load of LISA that no one would buy, they relabeled as macXL. mac XL would not run the mac software and apple promised versions that would run. customers never got them. The XL was a very expensive machine. Put my aunt out of business because she had no $ to replace the XL and the XL never worked.
if you think only *****ONE***** mac pro / nvidia has > 2gb ram.....
i sell them everyday. poor ram f's up a lot. buy good ram.
fools all...
Ditto this. I've done development of MacOS X kernel extensions for PCI hardware. It is very rare to see a crash that wasn't the fault of my own kext. We did, though, have boxes arrive with bad RAM that caused kernel crashes. These inevitably turned out to be due to bad DIMMs installed by MacConnection or MacMall or whoever offered a free memory upgrade with purchase. I know Apple charges faintly ridiculous amounts for their memory so I can completely understand going with another vendor for RAM, but I'd encourage people to go with Crucial RAM and not unknown RAM from one of the big resellers.
Na na naaa na. Na na naaa na.
Heyyyyyyy
Goodbye.
I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
If it weren't my post you were replying to I'd have mod'd you up for that reply. You've certainly made me think about it some more. I love the way you worded the 2nd paragraph. I'd add to that by saying that the kids of today are born into a world where TV is served with their morning milk, so they don't really learn to how to make their own entertainment. Even worse, they think that's normal.