Thanks! Although, do bear in mind that I live in Seattle, and am on Pacific time as a result (in fact, as I post this, it's 6:45PM). I posted my original response this morning while drinking my morning cup of coffee and eating granola (I'm out of Cap'n Crunch, sadly); I'm sure there are a lot of people who take an hour or so on a Saturday morning to read through Slashdot and post comments on stories that go up. I haven't spent the entire day on Slashdot, though. I went off to a housewarming barbecue for one of my former developers on the Visual Studio IDE, and came back a couple hours ago, at which point I posted another flurry of comments. As soon as I'm done with this post, I'm out the door again! (so I won't be spending the rest of the evening on/., IAC.:-)
Anyway, most of the people I work with at MS are very dedicated to their jobs and to helping out members of the broader developer commmunity be successful with the tools and libraries that we produce. Since we spend 50-60 hours a week, 48 or 49 weeks a year working on this stuff we have every reason to ensure that the most people receive the most benefit from the time we put into them.
Re:Microsoft just seems to be kind of flailing.
on
Web 2.0, Meet .Net 3.0
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Have you logged bugs against the problems you've run into? If you have found migration issues between ASP.NET 1.1 and ASP.NET 2.0 that are not reflected in any of our docs, we'd like to know about it. Please let us know through our feedback portal at http://connect.microsoft.com/site/sitehome.aspx?Si teID=210, or by posting a message on one of our ASP.NET forums
Hey Mike - that's good feedback for the DirectX team to hear. They're not a part of the Developer Division, and I tend not to interact with them on a day-to-day basis. If you ask a question of someone who's involved with DirectX, they'd be much more able to act upon your feedback and give you a sense of where Managed DX is heading than I can. Thanks for passing that along!
Re:Microsoft just seems to be kind of flailing.
on
Web 2.0, Meet .Net 3.0
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Yes, this is absolutely correct. Mods? This is definitely an informative post.
Re:Microsoft just seems to be kind of flailing.
on
Web 2.0, Meet .Net 3.0
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Actually, I can tell you how to do one better than that. Go to the weblog for my Corporate VP, S. Somasegar, and leave that feedback for him there, or by sending him mail through the Email page. He does read the feedback posted there, and tries to always respond back.
Re:Microsoft just seems to be kind of flailing.
on
Web 2.0, Meet .Net 3.0
·
· Score: 5, Informative
I think you mean version 1.1 of the.NET Framework, not 1.3. Also, we published a very detailed list of breaking changes from 1.1 to 2.0 on MSDN. We never take a breaking change lightly, every single one of these would have been reviewed with a great deal of scrutiny to ensure that we really were doing the right thing under the circumstances.
With regard to.NET 3.0 (no longer WinFX 3.0), it's the next version of the.NET Framework. As a result, it includes new features, like WPF (Avalon), WCF (Indigo), and a ton of other cool, new things. This is merely a marketing change, no more.
We have a program like this at Microsoft called Frontline. All of the participants rave about it; it's a great mechanism for those of us in the product groups to figure out how to make our products more supportable and usable, and decrease our customers' need to call Microsoft PSS.
Not to be a total spaz, but this line from the story description is inaccurate: Microsoft's term for a person who creates the specifications for software that programmers implement. Typically, a Lead PM is the person who manages the people who create the specifications for software that programmers implement.
You know that Bethesda bought the rights to the Fallout series, right? I was wary of what this meant until I picked up Oblivion this week. Truly a fantastic game.
Well, no. Technically, IronPython is our answer to Python;-) And I think you also reinforce a point I make shortly after the quote. VB 2005 is too hard for your average 14 year old to pick up because you have to learn about OOP, a ton of syntax, and all this other junk.
The advantage that something like VS has over most command line tools is that it provides more "instant gratification" than many of them can. It'll show them a cool looking GUI instead of a line of text in their shell.
This is part of the reason why I think that KPL is so cool: it provides a great deal of effective motivation to people within that audience (by specifically enabling them to easily create games).
Seriously, the complexity associated with modern development tools is way too steep a curve for your average 14 year old to wrap their heads around. We're trying to address this to a certain extent with the Visual Studio 2005 Express Editions, but it's a tough problem. It's no longer as simple as getting a bare-bones BASIC interpreter built into your computer's ROM. I think there have been some cool advances in this space, though, in the recent past. Take the Kids' Programming Language, for example. It's is expressly aimed at the younger crowd. I've seen a demo of it (the guys from Morrison Schwartz who created it came by to give a talk on it last year), and I must say that I am suitably impressed their work. Check it out if you have a younger child who you want to introduce to development.
When I worked for the Geek Squad way back when (1998-2000, when it was 35 people and not a wholly owned sub of Best Buy) we went out of our way to not have to format a customer's computer. That was considered an option of last resort. We'd spend hours and hours doing everything we could to get the system functioning normally without having to flatten the machine. I can't speak for what it's like nowadays, of course, but some history never hurts.
Howdy - you should take a look at the VS 2005 setup bootstrapper. It'll simplify the process of getting SQL Server Express (SSE) installed onto a deployment machine. You will need to install an instance of SSE onto the deployment machine, though. SSE is a walking, talking, gum-chewing SQL database. There's a pretty useful article over on MSDN Magazine that will walk you through the basics.
I just purchased a 32" LCD at Costco for $999 on Monday. Considering that I upgraded from a 25" non-flat CRT which I paid $250 for a few years back, I feel like I got my money's worth. As other posters have pointed out, you can certainly purchase a hi-def CRT for not that much more than an SD CRT.
Hey - when you refer to Embedded VC++, which version do you mean? The last product we shipped with that name attached was version 4.0, which came out in 2003. Device development using Visual Studio 2005 is a much more pleasant experience, imo.
There are solutions to the (very real) issue you describe. For example, at Microsoft, the role I'm in as a Program Manager is meant to bridge gaps just like this one. I act as something of a technical liaison between my division's User Experience team (usability engineers, product designers, and interaction designers) and developers and PMs.
Once you have someone in a role where their entire job focuses in on ensuring that necessary conversations and information transfer occur it becomes much easier to make headway and avoid confusion between the Ux and Dev camps.
If I'm not mistaken, Josh actually dropped out of the University of Minnesota, where he was pursuing his B.S. in Aerospace Engineering. Then again, I may have minor details of that wrong...I haven't worked for Josh since 2000.
Yeah, a number of people have already mentioned them, but I have a few extra things to add. First off, the Express Editions are free (as in beer) right now to download and use. You can build commercial apps with the Express Editions.
I'd recommend downloading both VC# and VB Express and using both of them for a little while to see which language you're most comfortable with. In both, you'll be able to use the Windows Forms designer to create your UI, and the process is pretty-much painless with the 2005 products with their new UI design features.
Next, we added a serial port control to the.NET FX v2.0, which is what VS 2005 and the Express Editions all use. This makes it pretty easy to write code that'll grab the data you need. There's a great article on it over at Code Project that walks you through the basics.
You might be surprised, actually. Media Center is a total breeze to use. I listen to all of my music through it (actually, through the Media Center Extender in my X360), watch TV on it, look at pictures, etc. I've found it far and away easier to use than the old digital cable set top box I used to have through Comcast. I don't really see why people complain about having a 25 button remote (which is what I've got on my freebie xbox 360/media center remote); it's not any worse than a normal TV remote. In fact, it's easier to use than my normal TV's remote, which has 35 buttons (just a generic Philips 25" CRT).
SQL Server 2005 (and SQL Server Express, or SSE) launched almost two months ago now. You can go download the full RTM version of SSE from http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/sql/ right this second if you want to.
Slashdot Mirror
Thanks! Although, do bear in mind that I live in Seattle, and am on Pacific time as a result (in fact, as I post this, it's 6:45PM). I posted my original response this morning while drinking my morning cup of coffee and eating granola (I'm out of Cap'n Crunch, sadly); I'm sure there are a lot of people who take an hour or so on a Saturday morning to read through Slashdot and post comments on stories that go up. I haven't spent the entire day on Slashdot, though. I went off to a housewarming barbecue for one of my former developers on the Visual Studio IDE, and came back a couple hours ago, at which point I posted another flurry of comments. As soon as I'm done with this post, I'm out the door again! (so I won't be spending the rest of the evening on /., IAC. :-)
Anyway, most of the people I work with at MS are very dedicated to their jobs and to helping out members of the broader developer commmunity be successful with the tools and libraries that we produce. Since we spend 50-60 hours a week, 48 or 49 weeks a year working on this stuff we have every reason to ensure that the most people receive the most benefit from the time we put into them.
Have you logged bugs against the problems you've run into? If you have found migration issues between ASP.NET 1.1 and ASP.NET 2.0 that are not reflected in any of our docs, we'd like to know about it. Please let us know through our feedback portal at http://connect.microsoft.com/site/sitehome.aspx?Si teID=210, or by posting a message on one of our ASP.NET forums
Hey Mike - that's good feedback for the DirectX team to hear. They're not a part of the Developer Division, and I tend not to interact with them on a day-to-day basis. If you ask a question of someone who's involved with DirectX, they'd be much more able to act upon your feedback and give you a sense of where Managed DX is heading than I can. Thanks for passing that along!
Yes, this is absolutely correct. Mods? This is definitely an informative post.
Actually, I can tell you how to do one better than that. Go to the weblog for my Corporate VP, S. Somasegar, and leave that feedback for him there, or by sending him mail through the Email page. He does read the feedback posted there, and tries to always respond back.
I think you mean version 1.1 of the .NET Framework, not 1.3. Also, we published a very detailed list of breaking changes from 1.1 to 2.0 on MSDN. We never take a breaking change lightly, every single one of these would have been reviewed with a great deal of scrutiny to ensure that we really were doing the right thing under the circumstances.
With regard to .NET 3.0 (no longer WinFX 3.0), it's the next version of the .NET Framework. As a result, it includes new features, like WPF (Avalon), WCF (Indigo), and a ton of other cool, new things. This is merely a marketing change, no more.
We have a program like this at Microsoft called Frontline. All of the participants rave about it; it's a great mechanism for those of us in the product groups to figure out how to make our products more supportable and usable, and decrease our customers' need to call Microsoft PSS.
Not to be a total spaz, but this line from the story description is inaccurate: Microsoft's term for a person who creates the specifications for software that programmers implement. Typically, a Lead PM is the person who manages the people who create the specifications for software that programmers implement.
You know that Bethesda bought the rights to the Fallout series, right? I was wary of what this meant until I picked up Oblivion this week. Truly a fantastic game.
Well, no. Technically, IronPython is our answer to Python ;-) And I think you also reinforce a point I make shortly after the quote. VB 2005 is too hard for your average 14 year old to pick up because you have to learn about OOP, a ton of syntax, and all this other junk.
The advantage that something like VS has over most command line tools is that it provides more "instant gratification" than many of them can. It'll show them a cool looking GUI instead of a line of text in their shell.
This is part of the reason why I think that KPL is so cool: it provides a great deal of effective motivation to people within that audience (by specifically enabling them to easily create games).
Seriously, the complexity associated with modern development tools is way too steep a curve for your average 14 year old to wrap their heads around. We're trying to address this to a certain extent with the Visual Studio 2005 Express Editions, but it's a tough problem. It's no longer as simple as getting a bare-bones BASIC interpreter built into your computer's ROM. I think there have been some cool advances in this space, though, in the recent past. Take the Kids' Programming Language, for example. It's is expressly aimed at the younger crowd. I've seen a demo of it (the guys from Morrison Schwartz who created it came by to give a talk on it last year), and I must say that I am suitably impressed their work. Check it out if you have a younger child who you want to introduce to development.
That's awesome, I hadn't noticed Slashdot there before :)
When I worked for the Geek Squad way back when (1998-2000, when it was 35 people and not a wholly owned sub of Best Buy) we went out of our way to not have to format a customer's computer. That was considered an option of last resort. We'd spend hours and hours doing everything we could to get the system functioning normally without having to flatten the machine. I can't speak for what it's like nowadays, of course, but some history never hurts.
interesting, thanks for the link
I think you're referring to a Terry Gilliam movie, there...
Howdy - you should take a look at the VS 2005 setup bootstrapper. It'll simplify the process of getting SQL Server Express (SSE) installed onto a deployment machine. You will need to install an instance of SSE onto the deployment machine, though. SSE is a walking, talking, gum-chewing SQL database. There's a pretty useful article over on MSDN Magazine that will walk you through the basics.
i wish i had the points to mod you up...that just made me crack up. :-)
I just purchased a 32" LCD at Costco for $999 on Monday. Considering that I upgraded from a 25" non-flat CRT which I paid $250 for a few years back, I feel like I got my money's worth. As other posters have pointed out, you can certainly purchase a hi-def CRT for not that much more than an SD CRT.
Hey - when you refer to Embedded VC++, which version do you mean? The last product we shipped with that name attached was version 4.0, which came out in 2003. Device development using Visual Studio 2005 is a much more pleasant experience, imo.
There are solutions to the (very real) issue you describe. For example, at Microsoft, the role I'm in as a Program Manager is meant to bridge gaps just like this one. I act as something of a technical liaison between my division's User Experience team (usability engineers, product designers, and interaction designers) and developers and PMs.
Once you have someone in a role where their entire job focuses in on ensuring that necessary conversations and information transfer occur it becomes much easier to make headway and avoid confusion between the Ux and Dev camps.
If I'm not mistaken, Josh actually dropped out of the University of Minnesota, where he was pursuing his B.S. in Aerospace Engineering. Then again, I may have minor details of that wrong...I haven't worked for Josh since 2000.
Yeah, a number of people have already mentioned them, but I have a few extra things to add. First off, the Express Editions are free (as in beer) right now to download and use. You can build commercial apps with the Express Editions.
I'd recommend downloading both VC# and VB Express and using both of them for a little while to see which language you're most comfortable with. In both, you'll be able to use the Windows Forms designer to create your UI, and the process is pretty-much painless with the 2005 products with their new UI design features.
Next, we added a serial port control to the .NET FX v2.0, which is what VS 2005 and the Express Editions all use. This makes it pretty easy to write code that'll grab the data you need. There's a great article on it over at Code Project that walks you through the basics.
Also, if you ever run into trouble you can get help on our Forums at http://forums.microsoft.com.
Good luck!
You might be surprised, actually. Media Center is a total breeze to use. I listen to all of my music through it (actually, through the Media Center Extender in my X360), watch TV on it, look at pictures, etc. I've found it far and away easier to use than the old digital cable set top box I used to have through Comcast. I don't really see why people complain about having a 25 button remote (which is what I've got on my freebie xbox 360/media center remote); it's not any worse than a normal TV remote. In fact, it's easier to use than my normal TV's remote, which has 35 buttons (just a generic Philips 25" CRT).
no, no, no! this was back when the custom of the time was to carry an onion on your belt!
SQL Server 2005 (and SQL Server Express, or SSE) launched almost two months ago now. You can go download the full RTM version of SSE from http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/sql/ right this second if you want to.