Why should I pay for your kids to go to school? Why should I pay for your roads to drive your car on? Why should I pay for military to die to protect your oil company's profits?
And you don't think you pay anyway?
LOL.
They rip off everyone who can pay, and they charge you for everyone who can't pay-- at much higher rates than the government taxes would be.
---
But I can tell you are "naked self interest" kinda guy... so how about.
1) If you get sick, you lose your job, you lose your insurance, you lose everything. 2) If it is a chronic condition, you lose your insurance, then you run up a huge bill at inflated rates, you lose everything. 3) You want freedom to start a business, but you can't because without insurance, you are screwed- so you are basically a slave to the corporations-- it's a wonderfully designed system of slavery actually. Work or else when you get sick, you are financially ruined.. and then you die. 4) Because, you will eventually go through a period of unemployment- and if you get sick during that period- you are screwed.
"Some have speculated that the vast majority of items on the chargemaster have no identifiable basis, certainly not actual costs, and that changes to the chargemaster have evolved over time to hurt the uninsured. "
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MTA2YmZmODhiOTE3ZDg2NjE0NjgzMDU1ZDUxN2U1MzY= "In case you're wondering what I mean by "extremely expensive," here's one example: The rack rate, so to speak, for my week at Cedars-Sinai last month was about $47,000; the Blue Cross negotiated rate was around $20,000. So that's yet another reason to have health insurance: to avoid paying rates inflated to protect against all the people out there who can't or won't pay -- including those who consider mandatory insurance socialism."
Of course, then there are the problems with private health insurance... "Blue Cross was recently fined $200,000 for improperly voiding members' policies years after they'd been written, apparently just because they got sick and began making claims."
Here is how insurance should work. Acute conditions should be treated up to a certain dollar level and above that requires insurance or private cash. Chronic conditions should be covered at a very low rate ($500-$1000 a year max). You should be able to save a certain amount of your income tax free and use that for medical expenses. It should never expire like the current HSA's.
We can't afford $million treatments for everyone- but we can afford to fix broken legs, heart attacks, and a wide variety of surgeries.
I think we are going to over-breed to the point that we are like a spinning top.
Large parts of the ocean are dying even at our current population levels. They would spring back in under a decade if we could leave them alone but we can't/won't.
I don't think we can wipe out humans- but i think we can take it to the point were we fall back quite a ways and lose progress for a hundred years or so and end up with 3-4 billion.
Without foreign aid, a lot of countries are really uninhabitable in africa and have 100x the number of people that should be there subsisting- barely existing but not really living. If the foreign aid, or the water, or the energy, or etc. is interrupted for 60 days it is going to be a catastrophe.
Any bright idea we have to take the cap off and take our population higher makes whatever the eventual event is that much worse.
In any kind of real war, we'd probably lose electricity very quickly. we might lose water as well. cholera and other diseases we haven't had to deal with in a long time are just waiting for an opening- we are very tightly packed these days.
Any kind of real pandemic is going to hit a lot harder than the 1917 pandemic. -- however, I'll grant that in 20-30 years we might just solve that problem with the ability to extremely quickly model diseases and create counters to them.
I don't disagree that we won't keep inventing better foods, better medicines.
It is just increasingly unstable. Any screwups will make us look like stupid deer outbreeding our food supply.
Let me speak from the programming field and my math in college.
If you *freaking love math and programming* you will probably do better at it.
If you work on math and programming problems in your spare time, you will probably do better at it.
I know female math genius's exist. But in my 200 some odd fellow students, perhaps 3 of the females were really interested beyond getting "a good job" while 60% of the males were sincerely interested and "got" it.
Pretty clear that we are past the carrying capacity already given the number of systems collapsing. More kids are just going to hasten a particularly nasty end game scenario. I hope it happens in 50 years and not 30 years. But it will happen.
Male's natural advantage in aggression causes a difference over time unless society actively corrects for it.
Trivial case, Two scientists make the same amount of money. One asks for raises and pursues them. The other hopes the boss will notice and give them a raise.
One leaves and gets a job paying 25% more. The other stays and gets an 8% raise.
One leaves and gets a more prestigious position. The other stays and competes for the few positions available.
Now run that cycle for a few generations and we are right back where we are now. In the real world, in those fields where aggression matters, it still demands a premium or gains extra success over time.
Physical strength no longer demands a premium.
In some cases, aggression is a draw back-- in those fields, men do worse.
I agree there is a ton of built in sexism, racism, and historical privilege and that is slowly being rooted out. But having gone from low aggression to high aggression- (via hormone therapy), I see the difference it makes for me.
They also have a policy.. No one on the SAP project is to say anything about the project or raise any concerns to anyone outside the project including their normal supervisors and managers. Breaking the policy is grounds for termination.
My bud at another company said they did this there too.. the result was that after about $300 million, it became clear it was a screwed up situation but management decided so much money had been spent that they should see it through. After 9 years they finally are close to finishing their 3 year project. He said they turned the corner at about 6 years but there were still a lot of missing pieces. They had 5 divisions. Our company has over 50.
For now, I'm avoiding it- if the economy gets bad, they've been set up as a separate company and can be cut loose. The people they let go were told, "this project has no need for you any longer" and "no you can't return to your old job, that's in a different company". I figure at year 3, if the economy is good, I'll angle to get on it.
I'm risking getting laid off less by keeping the tires on the car. I'm giving up a chance at picking up a hot new skill. But I'm also working 42 to 45 hour weeks instead of 50 to 55 hour weeks for the next three years.
I think a lot of people will buy something that is reasonably priced with or without DRM. I think a lot of people will pirate or not buy something that is unreasonably priced.
The longer DRM exists, the lower that price gets however. Because once folks pirate something at $70 because of price + DRM, then they are more likely to pirate cheaper titles.
Some of my titles without DRM from the 1990's still work. I don't know if my titles with DRM work- I lost the original media or it broke. The non-DRM software I was able to back up in multiple places so I have not lost it. Of course Total Annihilation (which still rocks) was DRM'd but a crack came out years ago that allowed me to back it up.
Ned: Hey, hey! Now, don't you tell me you don't remember me because I sure as heckfire remember you. Phil: Not a chance. Ned: Ned... Ryerson. "Needlenose Ned"? "Ned the Head"? C'mon, buddy. Case Western High. Ned Ryerson: I did the whistling belly-button trick at the high school talent show? Bing! Ned Ryerson: got the shingles real bad senior year, almost didn't graduate? Bing, again. Ned Ryerson: I dated your sister Mary Pat a couple times until you told me not to anymore? Well? Phil: Ned Ryerson? Ned: Bing! Phil: Bing.
Running a 60 person guild for 24 months gave me a lot of the skills I use in my job running a team of 9. It gave me a ton of experience dealing with politics. It made me aware that a small core of people are rock solid- so you need to value them. It really opened up my eyes about how many people are users (the best do not even see it themselves- they view themselves as good people). But as long as they get what they need reasonably consistently, they stay. It opened my eyes how fleeting "we'll always be buds" really is.
As an old D&D hound, it was the closest thing to heaven. if my hands had not gone bad, I'd be playing today.
Very irritating dealing with the "ubers" tho. If I play again someday-- it will be when I'm retired and can be "uber" as well.
I know.. gambling is something I've never understood. It feels worse than actually taking a $20 bill and burning it to me.
Meanwhile, dumping $1000 on a computer item is completely entertaining and makes sense.
OTH, remodeling my kitchen made logical sense but emotionally put me under huge stress. It's taken months of the new kitchen to start enjoying it.
OTH, I trade in the stock market. It is very close to gambling (esp. in today's highly manipulated markets). But it feels better than gambling to me emotionally. My winnings are mixed. They were good for 5 years but the last year has been brutal.
As a non-believer, I agree that cults use brainwashing techniques against teens and adults.
However- as some others have pointed out, as a child of christians, you don't have much of a chance- before your brain forms you are taught certain things are reality. It takes a lot to break free of that brainwashing. If churches used cult techniques then most likely a lot less people would break free.
Religions do not use these techniques tho they do use ostracism. In older times, this was very effective since it would cut you away from your entire life with no support. However as cities formed, and we needed communal support less, that has lost it's power.
From my two experiences actually playing (i.e. "throwing money into a hole"), some of the "good odds" bets are apparently socially unpopular. There is a social aspect to the table where you join a shared unreality where dice have memory and so on. I didn't totally get it but my EQ bud had done it a lot so he kept me from making a terrible faux pas.
The electronic slot machines used to be thought of as having worse odds than the mechanical machines.
So what your saying is that perhaps some of the ads in w4m will be real women now instead of computer programs.
---
all kidding aside, I found much better luck posting in m4w and adding a topical question-- "What is the huge shopping mall at the corner of these two freeways". the response I got which had an answer were always human. Call it a personal "Captcha".
As our 25 year old stoves and 15 year old water heaters are breaking, we find that most stoves and hot water heaters break in under a decade and under six years respectively.
As you can imagine, it's irritating because it is so obvious.
It is a real hassle to have to replace these things more often.
I think they may be cheaper adjusted for inflation- but sometimes a single piece comes up a lot as the source of failure so you have to think that upgrading that one piece from plastic to steel would prevent a lot of failures and raise the cost very mildly.
As you look at hot water heaters- many fail in the first year - and then the companies screw people who bought warranties over for several weeks before replacing them.
In my personal experience, most reasonable religious people will unveil a fundamental unreality if pushed hard enough.
The normal rules of society prevent us from seeing it most of the time-- but if they are pushing me about my lack of believe, I can usually get to it pretty quickly by asking questions about what parts of their holy book they believe or not.
Except when they really don't have a religion and just believe some big spirit that has whatever rules and behavior makes them feel happy.
In the US, my speed matches that of the radar signs and the travel time matches the mileage so I would say most of our cars have accurate speedometers.
You should be able to test your speedometer by driving a known distance. In the U.S. we have markers every mile on major highways-- so you drive 60mph, and as you pass a mile marker note the time. 15 minutes later, you should pass the mile marker +15. Or you have a better idea of how badly calibrated your speedometer is.
Slashdot Mirror
Why should I pay for your kids to go to school?
Why should I pay for your roads to drive your car on?
Why should I pay for military to die to protect your oil company's profits?
And you don't think you pay anyway?
LOL.
They rip off everyone who can pay, and they charge you for everyone who can't pay-- at much higher rates than the government taxes would be.
---
But I can tell you are "naked self interest" kinda guy... so how about.
1) If you get sick, you lose your job, you lose your insurance, you lose everything.
2) If it is a chronic condition, you lose your insurance, then you run up a huge bill at inflated rates, you lose everything.
3) You want freedom to start a business, but you can't because without insurance, you are screwed- so you are basically a slave to the corporations-- it's a wonderfully designed system of slavery actually. Work or else when you get sick, you are financially ruined.. and then you die.
4) Because, you will eventually go through a period of unemployment- and if you get sick during that period- you are screwed.
They don't have to charge less.
Hell, if all the government insurance did was let us pay the same rate as insured people, it would cut the cost of drugs and procedures by over 50%.
http://www.allbusiness.com/health-care-social-assistance/3910880-1.html
"Much of the bad press has focused on the uninsured being charged high prices for services while managed care plans, Medicaid, and Medicare receive deep discounts. "
"Some have speculated that the vast majority of items on the chargemaster have no identifiable basis, certainly not actual costs, and that changes to the chargemaster have evolved over time to hurt the uninsured. "
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MTA2YmZmODhiOTE3ZDg2NjE0NjgzMDU1ZDUxN2U1MzY=
"In case you're wondering what I mean by "extremely expensive," here's one example: The rack rate, so to speak, for my week at Cedars-Sinai last month was about $47,000; the Blue Cross negotiated rate was around $20,000. So that's yet another reason to have health insurance: to avoid paying rates inflated to protect against all the people out there who can't or won't pay -- including those who consider mandatory insurance socialism."
Of course, then there are the problems with private health insurance...
"Blue Cross was recently fined $200,000 for improperly voiding members' policies years after they'd been written, apparently just because they got sick and began making claims."
On top of insurance discounts, the existing national health care system Medicare is half the price for uninsured.
http://www.usc.edu/schools/sppd/research/healthresearch/images/pdf_reportspapers/Professor_Melnick_Congressional_Testimony.pdf
Appendectomy (exhibit 1). Uninsured: $8,143, Insured: $6,100-- get sick when you are insured. Medicare: $4,165!-- get sick when you are old.
---
Here is how insurance should work.
Acute conditions should be treated up to a certain dollar level and above that requires insurance or private cash.
Chronic conditions should be covered at a very low rate ($500-$1000 a year max).
You should be able to save a certain amount of your income tax free and use that for medical expenses. It should never expire like the current HSA's.
We can't afford $million treatments for everyone- but we can afford to fix broken legs, heart attacks, and a wide variety of surgeries.
No- I'm talking beyond that.
I think we are going to over-breed to the point that we are like a spinning top.
Large parts of the ocean are dying even at our current population levels. They would spring back in under a decade if we could leave them alone but we can't/won't.
I don't think we can wipe out humans- but i think we can take it to the point were we fall back quite a ways and lose progress for a hundred years or so and end up with 3-4 billion.
Without foreign aid, a lot of countries are really uninhabitable in africa and have 100x the number of people that should be there subsisting- barely existing but not really living. If the foreign aid, or the water, or the energy, or etc. is interrupted for 60 days it is going to be a catastrophe.
Any bright idea we have to take the cap off and take our population higher makes whatever the eventual event is that much worse.
In any kind of real war, we'd probably lose electricity very quickly. we might lose water as well. cholera and other diseases we haven't had to deal with in a long time are just waiting for an opening- we are very tightly packed these days.
Any kind of real pandemic is going to hit a lot harder than the 1917 pandemic. -- however, I'll grant that in 20-30 years we might just solve that problem with the ability to extremely quickly model diseases and create counters to them.
I don't disagree that we won't keep inventing better foods, better medicines.
It is just increasingly unstable. Any screwups will make us look like stupid deer outbreeding our food supply.
And there we disagree.
If you are right, or if it happens after I die, it's okay either way for me.
The system gets more brittle each year.
All it takes is one real war or pandemic and the number of deaths will probably be in billions.
And i'm not saying we can do anything to stop it anyway. I think it's too late to do anything about it.
Let me speak from the programming field and my math in college.
If you *freaking love math and programming* you will probably do better at it.
If you work on math and programming problems in your spare time, you will probably do better at it.
I know female math genius's exist. But in my 200 some odd fellow students, perhaps 3 of the females were really interested beyond getting "a good job" while 60% of the males were sincerely interested and "got" it.
Pretty clear that we are past the carrying capacity already given the number of systems collapsing.
More kids are just going to hasten a particularly nasty end game scenario. I hope it happens in 50 years and not 30 years.
But it will happen.
Nah...
Male's natural advantage in aggression causes a difference over time unless society actively corrects for it.
Trivial case,
Two scientists make the same amount of money.
One asks for raises and pursues them.
The other hopes the boss will notice and give them a raise.
One leaves and gets a job paying 25% more.
The other stays and gets an 8% raise.
One leaves and gets a more prestigious position.
The other stays and competes for the few positions available.
Now run that cycle for a few generations and we are right back where we are now.
In the real world, in those fields where aggression matters, it still demands a premium or gains extra success over time.
Physical strength no longer demands a premium.
In some cases, aggression is a draw back-- in those fields, men do worse.
I agree there is a ton of built in sexism, racism, and historical privilege and that is slowly being rooted out.
But having gone from low aggression to high aggression- (via hormone therapy), I see the difference it makes for me.
"generic" People feels worse.
kittens don't even come close.
Even 99% of specific bad people probably.
They also have a policy..
No one on the SAP project is to say anything about the project or raise any concerns to anyone outside the project including their normal supervisors and managers.
Breaking the policy is grounds for termination.
My bud at another company said they did this there too.. the result was that after about $300 million, it became clear it was a screwed up situation but management decided so much money had been spent that they should see it through. After 9 years they finally are close to finishing their 3 year project. He said they turned the corner at about 6 years but there were still a lot of missing pieces. They had 5 divisions. Our company has over 50.
For now, I'm avoiding it- if the economy gets bad, they've been set up as a separate company and can be cut loose. The people they let go were told, "this project has no need for you any longer" and "no you can't return to your old job, that's in a different company". I figure at year 3, if the economy is good, I'll angle to get on it.
I'm risking getting laid off less by keeping the tires on the car. I'm giving up a chance at picking up a hot new skill. But I'm also working 42 to 45 hour weeks instead of 50 to 55 hour weeks for the next three years.
I think a lot of people will buy something that is reasonably priced with or without DRM.
I think a lot of people will pirate or not buy something that is unreasonably priced.
The longer DRM exists, the lower that price gets however. Because once folks pirate something at $70 because of price + DRM, then they are more likely to pirate cheaper titles.
Some of my titles without DRM from the 1990's still work. I don't know if my titles with DRM work- I lost the original media or it broke. The non-DRM software I was able to back up in multiple places so I have not lost it. Of course Total Annihilation (which still rocks) was DRM'd but a crack came out years ago that allowed me to back it up.
SAP has been replacing one of our systems for over a year now.
SAP feels a lot like fight club.
You don't say anything bad about SAP, or you are out the door.
Our management is going to be different, special, the one to actually implement SAP on budget in only 3 years.
< Thanks! >
Ned: Hey, hey! Now, don't you tell me you don't remember me because I sure as heckfire remember you.
Phil: Not a chance.
Ned: Ned... Ryerson. "Needlenose Ned"? "Ned the Head"? C'mon, buddy. Case Western High. Ned Ryerson: I did the whistling belly-button trick at the high school talent show? Bing! Ned Ryerson: got the shingles real bad senior year, almost didn't graduate? Bing, again. Ned Ryerson: I dated your sister Mary Pat a couple times until you told me not to anymore? Well?
Phil: Ned Ryerson?
Ned: Bing!
Phil: Bing.
Everquest was addictive.
Running a 60 person guild for 24 months gave me a lot of the skills I use in my job running a team of 9.
It gave me a ton of experience dealing with politics.
It made me aware that a small core of people are rock solid- so you need to value them.
It really opened up my eyes about how many people are users (the best do not even see it themselves- they view themselves as good people).
But as long as they get what they need reasonably consistently, they stay.
It opened my eyes how fleeting "we'll always be buds" really is.
As an old D&D hound, it was the closest thing to heaven. if my hands had not gone bad, I'd be playing today.
Very irritating dealing with the "ubers" tho. If I play again someday-- it will be when I'm retired and can be "uber" as well.
Ooooo OOOOOO Weeeeee, oodle, oodle, TSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
1200 connect
Welcome to the Atomic Cafe
login:
(grr. first one ate the greater than less than symbols.)
\"
/
.
can't remember the escape for angle brackets.
~
'
Ooooo OOOOOO Weeeeee, oodle, oodle, TSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
Welcome to the Atomic Cafe
login:
I know.. gambling is something I've never understood. It feels worse than actually taking a $20 bill and burning it to me.
Meanwhile, dumping $1000 on a computer item is completely entertaining and makes sense.
OTH, remodeling my kitchen made logical sense but emotionally put me under huge stress. It's taken months of the new kitchen to start enjoying it.
OTH, I trade in the stock market. It is very close to gambling (esp. in today's highly manipulated markets). But it feels better than gambling to me emotionally. My winnings are mixed. They were good for 5 years but the last year has been brutal.
As a non-believer, I agree that cults use brainwashing techniques against teens and adults.
However- as some others have pointed out, as a child of christians, you don't have much of a chance- before your brain forms you are taught certain things are reality. It takes a lot to break free of that brainwashing. If churches used cult techniques then most likely a lot less people would break free.
Religions do not use these techniques tho they do use ostracism. In older times, this was very effective since it would cut you away from your entire life with no support. However as cities formed, and we needed communal support less, that has lost it's power.
Assuming your number was 1 to 100,
I think best odds you can get in craps is a little over .48 so that would be one reason people wouldn't accept it.
This seems to support that: http://scoblete.casinocitytimes.com/articles/30.html
From my two experiences actually playing (i.e. "throwing money into a hole"), some of the "good odds" bets are apparently socially unpopular. There is a social aspect to the table where you join a shared unreality where dice have memory and so on. I didn't totally get it but my EQ bud had done it a lot so he kept me from making a terrible faux pas.
The electronic slot machines used to be thought of as having worse odds than the mechanical machines.
So what your saying is that perhaps some of the ads in w4m will be real women now instead of computer programs.
---
all kidding aside, I found much better luck posting in m4w and adding a topical question-- "What is the huge shopping mall at the corner of these two freeways". the response I got which had an answer were always human. Call it a personal "Captcha".
Bad example.
We all know that prostitution never occurs at strip clubs or between their employees and patrons off grounds.
Look, I'm a computer programmer. I don't have time for a girl friend, but a talking frog is cool!
http://michelesworld.net/dmm2/frog/jokes.htm#Frog%20Joke%20IV
As our 25 year old stoves and 15 year old water heaters are breaking, we find that most stoves and hot water heaters break in under a decade and under six years respectively.
As you can imagine, it's irritating because it is so obvious.
It is a real hassle to have to replace these things more often.
I think they may be cheaper adjusted for inflation- but sometimes a single piece comes up a lot as the source of failure so you have to think that upgrading that one piece from plastic to steel would prevent a lot of failures and raise the cost very mildly.
As you look at hot water heaters- many fail in the first year - and then the companies screw people who bought warranties over for several weeks before replacing them.
In my personal experience, most reasonable religious people will unveil a fundamental unreality if pushed hard enough.
The normal rules of society prevent us from seeing it most of the time-- but if they are pushing me about my lack of believe, I can usually get to it pretty quickly by asking questions about what parts of their holy book they believe or not.
Except when they really don't have a religion and just believe some big spirit that has whatever rules and behavior makes them feel happy.
In the US, my speed matches that of the radar signs and the travel time matches the mileage so I would say most of our cars have accurate speedometers.
You should be able to test your speedometer by driving a known distance. In the U.S. we have markers every mile on major highways-- so you drive 60mph, and as you pass a mile marker note the time. 15 minutes later, you should pass the mile marker +15. Or you have a better idea of how badly calibrated your speedometer is.