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CoS Bigwig Likens Wikipedia Ban to Nazis' Yellow Star Decree
We mentioned on Thursday that Wikipedia has banned edits originating from certain IP addresses belonging to the Church of Scientology; reader newtley writes now that Scientology leader (CEO and Chairman of the Board of the linked, but legally separate, Religious Technology Center) David Miscavige calls the ban "a 'despicable hate crime,' and asks, 'What's next, will Scientologists have to wear yellow, six-pointed stars on our clothing?' During World War II, Hitler forced Jewish men, women and children to wear a a yellow cloth star bearing the word Jude to brand them in the streets of Europe, and in the Nazi death camps."
I remember saying very close to the same thing quite a number of times to various people when I was... 10?
He loses the argument. End of story.
For a real argument, editing Wikipedia is not akin to, say, being able to buy food. IPs can and do get banned for all sorts of reasons.
I am officially gone from
So when does he think that the Wikipedia stormtroopers will march up to the scientology homes and round them all up to labour camps that have a Work is Freedom banner at the front gate? Honestly, it's the first time I've ever seen a conversation Godwin itself from the original argument. Reduction Nazium indeed.
i suppose when they actually have to wear yellow stars he'll have a point.
The CO$ got banned because they systematically abused the PRIVILEGE (not a right) to do edits on Wikipedia because they were doing so to silence criticism.
If they'd made edits to correct factual errors instead of their own (since they have already violated Godwin's Law) NAZI like internet tactics this never would have happened.
Now I wish Wikipedia would start banning other corporate abusers, such as Sony, who also notoriously edits out any criticism of them and their ethics. Go look at all the edits on the Star Wars Galaxies article and SOE liar in chief John "Smed" Smedley.
Corporatism != Free Market
not really, there's not much judgementalism when operating on the creators' unlimited supply of newclear power. just more&more energy, process, observation, interaction, connection & separation/intervention as needed, usually based on motive.
So the Jews had to wear the stars due to the fact that they were pushing its own agenda on the 'free encyclopedia anyone can edit?
Being a Jew, I feel strongly that the Jews were treated this way due to the anti-semitism of the times, which is NOTHING to do with the current Church of Scientology situation.
Just because you hate what happened doesn't make it a hate crime.
Written by Church of Scientology, Clearwater, FL
Hahahaha
If they didn't like what Wiki did, they're going to hate being Slashdotted!
"The goal of Scientology is a sane world, without criminals, without psychiatric terror, without war. Ultimately, the goal of Scientology is sanity itself"
Can't even begin to understand where this man is coming from.
Exception Duck - may or may not contain chicken.
They aren't being forced to wear something or being branded. Their HQ IP block was banned because they were violating the Wikipedia terms by editing their own pages and planting false information.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." --Mark Twain
will Scientologists have to wear yellow, six-pointed stars on our clothing?
Actually I was thinking they should be marked with something like a scarlet letter on their foreheads.
Perhaps a big "I" for Idiot.
It would certainly make them easier to spot.
Beta sux! Join the Slashcott! http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4760465&cid=46173047
I'm all for Scientologists wearing something we can easily identify them by, so we can avoid their ignorance.
Comparing your 'religion' to Judaism is ridiculous. I won't go into detail as to why I think so, because I think all religions are absurd, but it's like comparing pop tarts to a t-bone steak. One company, running a website, decided to block all IPs linked to Scientology. You are not being 'persecuted'. No death marches, no concentration camps, no shootings in the street. But we can all hope for that! Just kidding.
And did he just godwin himself?
The Reg article really oversimplified the Wikipedia ArbCom ruling, making it sound more one-sided than it was. If you actually read it, you'll see that it recognizes both pro- and anti-Scientologists as troublemakers, and includes sanctions for some hardcore Scientology critics as well.
This is actually a relief to me, as anti-Scientologists can get as wacked out as the Scientologists themselves. Wikipedia ArbCom has made some bone-headed decisions in the past; it's good that they were level-headed in this case.
David Miscavige ... asks, 'What's next, ... death camps?
Let me get back to you on that idea.
Next thing you know Jimbo will be rounding up Scientologists,forcing them into camps near active volcanos, and then blowing them all up with H-bombs.
They're masters of fooling idiots into thinking that salvation lies in a hokey lie detector, then using any means at all to keep them from leaving once they wake up to themselves. If you want an analog to Jewish yellow stars look no further than their fucking E-Meter
never heard Godwin used as a verb before, but if you can google, then why not.
Who said innovation was dead? (not CoS obviously).
Humorous signatures are over-rated.
A group that uses physical intimidation tactics against journalists doesn't get to ask for fair treatment.
They had their chance, but preferred to act as sociopaths. Too bad. Civilization is for the civilized.
Wikipedia also regularly bans Congressmans' offices from editing because they try to use the site to create fictional accounts of either their own candidates or the opposition. This is actually a show of integrity by Wikipedia (equal treatment of all). They are preventing a certain behavior from occurring -- not certain group of people from behaving.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Yeah, posted AC for obvious reasons.
Persecuted?
From Webster's dictionary:
" to cause to suffer because of belief"
I'm not sure how lack of Wikipedia access is comparable to being thrown in a death camp, but perhaps someone with more perspective can tell me.
The analogy is horribly flawed: The stars identified Jews so they would be discriminated against by other people as well as by the state (e.g. employers, benches, certain events, buildings etc.)
Filtering IPs from the CoS prevents them from contributing or skewing an already established work: it doesn't attach an indelible mark with which others can identify them with (and use against them) and it doesn't promote wide-spread "We hate you" feelings - it's just saying "We don't want your 'contributions'"
Is that like the chewbacca defense with a Jewish twist?
1) It's clear you are a COS member
2) I can go back 15 generations in my family tree because the Nazi's had a habit of being thorough and making sure people were in now way "jewish", even if they were christian for 10 generations, they had to be christian for at least 15. I have a hard time believing they would hire anyone jewish as a soldier or a member of the police.
Jews are from this planet!
I argue because it's the internet....and I can.
Do you know which Jews made it through the Holocaust unscathed?
The ones with money who fled early.
Frankly, you can take your bad analogies & shove them up your... no, scratch that - you'd almost certainly enjoy that.
There's apparently ample evidence that CoS members, located within and with specific support of the CoS institution, were doing the questionable editing practices.
This is the normal "help, help, we're being 'religiously' repressed" nonsense that the CoS always appeals to, even if they commit genuine crimes. In the case of Wikipedia, it's a minor little thing, but still pretty annoying. I think what Wikipedia has chosen to do is a bit much, but on the other hand it isn't going to have much effect, so it doesn't matter in the end.
Regardless, I think the comparison to labeling Jews in the Nazi era is pretty demeaning. Banning edits from certain locations is a hate crime? Give me a break. All Wikipedia is saying, really, is that the CoS will have to set up yet another shell company or have their members post from their home accounts rather than being able to do it from CoS facilities. Oh, boo hoo. Pay their home internet bills and you'll be back in business with the same nonsense in no time, and the admins at Wikipedia can play whack-a-mole with individual IPs.
It's not a ban of CoS followers, it is a ban of IP ranges from which there have been consistent problems -- IPs which just happen to be ones sponsored directly by the CoS. If multiple CoS sockpuppets hadn't been playing games while being behind single IPs, then banning ALL those IPs because of the actions of SOME of the individuals behind them wouldn't be necessary.
"There is nothing wrong with his analogy" says a user with the name BadAnalogyGuy.
Too perfect.
Your argument is hilarious. What does the existence of Jews willing to slaughter other Jews have to do with anything--or even defend the analogy!
Your deflection of the errant analogy with some sort of pointless note of some Jews working for Nazis during the Holocaust is borderline antisemitic in my book.
Grow up. They can't edit an online encyclopedia! How do you compare that with stripping an innocent of their right to live?
My work here is dung.
Several comments note that Wikipedia is a private company and it can ban whoever it wants to. Dangerous. Wikipedia is becoming bigger then itself, it is no longer just a website. Many see it is a realiable and impartial source of information. I often use wikipedia before google as I am more likely to get the result I want. For that matter, the first page in a google result is often wikipedia.
Wikipedia claims to have no agenda, to be impartial. Yet it has for CoS now decided that THIS is the truth, not what CoS says. Fair enough, but where does it end? What truths are going to be determined next. The holocaust? Certainly denial of it is lying so ban the deniers. But others are less clear. Other exterminations by other countries. The turks, the chinese, the dutch, the americans, the japanese. All of which have shown less then favourable reaction to being pointed out that they are equally guilty of mass extermination against others. What is the official version of american, australian, canadian history relating to the natives at the moment?
CoS is being banned for two reasons. First, it is claimed they use underhanded tactics like scaremongering, lawsuits to silence opposition. But that is true for any religious group, should all religious groups be banned? They also violated the terms of the site. But that as I said is dangerous because it is effectively one individual/company saying how they think so called impartial information should be gathered.
I don't have an answer. You can't constantly have highly biased information being inserted and neither can you have someone else decide that their truth is the truth even if it is about someone else.
Sadly, the truth is often hard to get at and depends entirely on your point of view. You can easily point at the antics of CoS and call it wrong, but then I would look at the antics of your school of faith and wonder what the difference is.
All you can wonder now, who is going to be banned next for pushing their view on articles relating to them.
Remember, wikipedia was NOT supposed to be a regular encyclopedia with a choosen set of editors who get to decide what the view of the institution is. It was supposed to be open to all. Now it isn't.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I'm torn between giving someone "equal time" to respond to something done to them by a company, and saying that Slashdot did nothing more than feed a troll by allowing this particular posting.
I talk about stuff.
or six.
*rimshot*
The Church of Scientology can access Wikipedia just fine, they just can't edit it. So this is basically analogous to having your story submits summarily rejected by a newspaper because you've submitted so much crap in the past.
And no, that's not really equivalent to being sent to a death camp, but then again, scientologists aren't exactly known for their sanity or truthfulness, that being one of the reasons why they're being banned.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
...that I see a Scientology ad here.
Circumcision is child abuse.
I'll skip commenting on the "Wikipedia Ban = Nazism" claim. Many, many other people, I'm sure, will point out just how ridiculous it is. After you place that ridiculousness to the side, however, I found something odd. The person making the comparison is "Scientology religion's chief executive officer Mr. David Miscavige". A religion's "chief executive officer"? Since when does a religion have a CEO? Am I just ignorant of the structure of religions other than Judaism (which has a very loose-knit make up - the joke is that if you ask two Jews a question, you'll get three opinions)? Are there other religions with CEO's?
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
It's not even that bad is it? They still have access, they just can't edit... from IP addresses belonging to CoS... from home IPs is fine.
So yes, obviously Mr Miscavige is being repellantly disingenuous here.
If any block of IPs - regardless of who owns it - is routinely responsible for sabotaging the encyclopedia then it seems appropriate that the admins should ban that block of IPs.
OMG!!! Ponies!!!
Hell, if this analogy works then we should all disable our Spam filters and cower in shame for our prejudice, after all, these guys believe in us seeing the best Pr0n on the internet as well as giving us the opportunity to enhance our manhoods.
www.meneguzzi.eu/felipe
What hoops do I have to jump through to see subject lines on Slashdot again?
Fake post is fake..... As much as I find their behavior reprehensible, I can't really say trolling them this way shows any more *cough* maturity.
Hhmm ok I'm just going to say how I feel here, anyone that compares anything to Hitler to make their point needs to be kicked in the head a few times. Due to the reason comparing anything to Hitler and what was done during that time of a monstrous horror it just a cry to make them look good and claim they where not doing anything wrong. They where abusing the system that was out there, so Wikipedia put an end to it.
It's also saddening to see how quickly otherwise liberal minded people revert to the old, dictatorial, oppressive and ultimately ineffective ways of trying to silence people they don't like.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
These people are being persecuted because of their beliefs and their willingness to stand up for their beliefs.
Do you know which Jews made it through the Holocaust unscathed? It was the ones that joined up with the Nazis as soldiers and police. Through their complicity, these Jews were responsible for the millions that were slaughtered in the camps.
"BadAnalogyGuy". Yeah...no kidding.
Nobody at Wikipedia is forcing CoS members to go against their principles and fellow members and kill them, or even speak poorly of them. They aren't being persecuted for their beliefs. They're being told to leave Wikipedia's private property alone, not even because of their beliefs, but because of their track record of propaganda edits. Which is both completely different, and also legal.
Considering the CoS's history of making promotional propaganda edits to Wikipedia articles about them, I'd say it's also a very good idea.
The only way your analogy would work is if certain CoS members were forced to make derogatory edits to Wikipedia, rather than do nothing at all. And they're not even being forced to do nothing; only to do nothing from their own offices. Members can still make edits from home, libraries, Internet cafes, Starbucks' hotspots, and dozens if not hundreds of other places.
I suppose another way to make your analogy work is if the Jews in Germany/Austria were banned from having loudspeakers in the public square making public service announcements about how Judaism is the salvation to all people and things, and how they're much better than all other religions, and won't sue you for leaving the church, and don't force you to buy ridiculous electronics to practise the religion, and don't keep their most holy books locked up under copyright where nobody can even read them, and loads of other crap. (None of which is true about Judaism, BTW....this is just an example)
But the Jews didn't try to do this stuff, and they didn't get banned from it. So your analogy doesn't work.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
If I were Jewish I'd be really insulted by this. I wouldn't want the genocide of my people compared to getting kicked out of McDonalds for repeatedly setting the restroom on fire.
Yes, we want them all to have a badge of Xenu on it, have the abbreviated South Park version printed on their back with the text "this is what I actually believe" bellow.
You know this is a parody, yes?
It's not real.
Wrong. The Jews were persecuted because they were being used as a scapegoat. It wasn't legitimate and entirely made up.
CoS is being "persecuted" here because of a pattern of repeatedly submitting shitting articles. I'd hope Wikipedia does more of this. It's a good step towards establishing legitimacy and reliability.
Thanks,
Bruce
Through their complicity, these Jews were responsible for the millions that were slaughtered in the camps.
Oh dear, it was the fault of the Jews all along, was it...who'd have guessed it!
So there you are, surrounded by all your technology and information - and still...
Maybe you should try our free personality test...?
So, I actually clicked through to RTFA, and was stunned by the article. I'm pretty sure it's a fake. Just to quote it - "There is so much nonsense on the internet about Scientology, all of which was written by anti-religion extremists in the employ of the Psychiatric-Pharmaceutical industry. Many are also being paid by certain depraved, degenerate factions within the German government. You can't believe any of it. If these scumbags had their way, all children would be psych-drugged into oblivion, most eventually becoming high school gunmen; vicious de-programmers would constantly be leaping out from shadowy corners; there would be all-night electroshock parlors on the high street of every village, town and city; and anyone who tried to live an ethical life would quickly receive an icepick lobotomy."
That scans more like Burroughs than anything else. Kind of a satirical send-up of the scientologists, you know? If it *is* real, I think this guy should write more press releases.
I doubt anyone would ever make them wear yellow stars. However, based on this moronic overreaction we could arrange bright red tattoos on their foreheads that say "Dumbass"!
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
How about T-Shirts that say "I'm with Stupid" with the arrow pointing up? How dare they compare their made up religion to someone else's made up religion.
Hitler never banned edits from any IP addresses.
Successful troll is successful. Cool story, bro.
The benefit of censorship of the 'ban' type to clean up poor debates is linear for n banned organisations.
The problems that arise from censorship, the debate and distractions and criticisms, is exponential.
Just wait and see. There will be plenty of articles and discussion around this - next time they ban an entire group of people there will be ten times as much.
It just makes me wonder, is it a David and Goliath type battle or just a Mascavige of Justice?
Smivs on the intertubes!
> David Miscavige calls the ban "a 'despicable hate crime,' and asks,
> 'What's next, will Scientologists have to wear yellow, six-pointed
> stars on our clothing?'
Only on France.
I recommend reading it. It's utterly unhinged. Mental.
"If these scumbags had their way, all children would be psych-drugged into oblivion, most eventually becoming high school gunmen..."
That's a lot of gunmen.
"Scientology has also been declared a bona-fide religion by Mr. Frank Flynn, Adjunct Professor of Sociology at the University of Kansas."
If it's cool with Frank, then it's cool with me.
"Many celebrities are Scientologists, and ordinary public Scientologists sometimes get to meet them."
Awesome!
"...Scientologists deserve to be treated fairly, which means that we should be allowed to do things that other groups may not do."
What?
"We do not find critics of Scientology who do not have criminal backgrounds."
I got arrested for being drunk in charge of a bicycle once. Does that count?
I've always been impressed with how ridiculous the CoS can be, but this is a new low, even for them.
If losing editing rights (on Wikipedia) from CoS IPs is akin to Nazi prosecution of Jews then I wonder what they say about "The Norwegian Ministry of Health and Care Services is considering prosecuting and banning some Scientology practices, in particular the use of the Scientology personality test to sell courses. State Secretary Rigmor Aasrud said that the activities in question might be prosecuted as fraud or as violations of existing healthcare regulations." Or for that matter the trials against them in France.
If just losing editing rights is as bad as Nazi prosecution then by comparison other forms of prosecution must be like killing kittens with sledgehammers.
The Long Now Foundation
Ooooooh!
Right to liVe, not right to lie.
See, it was all a simple misunderstanding. Don't rely too heavily on your spell-checkers, people!
Filtering IPs from the CoS prevents them from contributing or skewing an already established work: it doesn't attach an indelible mark with which others can identify them with (and use against them) and it doesn't promote wide-spread "We hate you" feelings - it's just saying "We don't want your 'contributions'"
Then again the CoS is probably worse than the Nazis since their attitude is closer to pinning the yellow star on everyone else.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
In case any of you don't know, the guy quoted there, David Miscavige, was named heir as the leader of Scientology by its' founder, Lafayette Ronald Hubbard, and from everything I've seen, is equally schizophrenic.
Scientology has destroyed countless lives. There are very few things about which I agree with Anonymous, but their quest for the end of Scientology is one of them.
Eventually, Scientology will be destroyed, all of the lives that it has taken will be avenged, and their wronged spirits will finally be able to rest.
You might have been able to survive everything that came before it, Dave; but you will not survive the righteous wrath of the 'Net.
What's next, will Scientologists have to wear yellow, six-pointed stars on our clothing?
No, just one that says "[Citation needed]".
But seriously, Wikimedia treated CoS the same way they treat any other individual or organization that reliably skews the prose of Wikipedia. CoS should be flattered to be put on the same pedestal as other more reputable and recognized organizations.
while looking at the summary from google reader, i saw a cos advert! it took me to their homepage. i must say though, their website looks quite polished and professional.
Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
So the church of Scientology actually recognises the Holocaust now? Ah well :)
So this is basically analogous to having your story submits summarily rejected by a newspaper because you've submitted so much crap in the past.
Well.... they should come on down to Slashdot, let Kdawson show em' how it's done!
"When you see a unixer brainwashed beyond saving, kick him out of the door." - Xah Lee
Of course the Thetans are going to complain when you try to clear them. If the Thetans didn't misuse their ability to "implant" suggestions then Wikipedia would not have to clear them.
/me listens to the repetitive (and correct) cries of 'Godwins Law!' This is just silly in my opinion. The Church of Scientology is no more special than any other user on Wikipedia, and in the case of other users editing and re-editing articles constantly so as to create a bias of any kind, they are banned and their IP addresses flagged. If they did not see this coming, then they should have read the page 'Wikipedia:Neutral point of view' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view). The first line spells it out clearly "Neutral point of view is a fundamental Wikimedia principle and a cornerstone of Wikipedia. All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view, representing fairly, and as far as possible without bias...". Also; a general tip for David Miscavige, using analogies that stretch things to the extreme rarely work, and more often than not they merely make the creator of the analogy look melodramatic and in this case, whiny and unintelligent.
I hate seeing this argument pop up again and again. Wikipedia has a lot of de facto power. We gave them this power by using the service and promoting it among our acquaintances. We didn't give Jimmy Wales this power so that he could use it to advance a personal agenda of changing social perceptions or silencing arbitrary voices. There's a certain amount of accountability here.
But the decision to ban Scientology's IP's was perfectly in line with a reasonable prior policy. That's what makes this is OK, not the fact that Wikipedia is private property.
'What's next, will Scientologists have to wear yellow, six-pointed stars on our clothing?'
No, a t-shirt saying "I'm With Stupid" and an arrow pointing to a picture of L Ron Hubbard should suffice. . .
I truly believe that L. Ron Hubbard started Scientology as a Joke/Experiment to show how gullable people are to religion. I think it was taken over by people who know exactly how to profit from religion (not unlike the clerics etc. of most religions - especially the T.V. religions). Fuck them! I truly do HATE people who try to force irrationality down the throats of others. They should be killed.
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
Is that they did a lot of bad things. Are you only allowed to say "this person is doing this bad thing" if:
(pick one)
- Nazis didn't do it
- Some person more well-known than the Nazis, who was not themselves a Nazi, did it
- The person you're talking about has ALSO killed six-million jews
Just because the Nazi's killed a bunch of people doesn't suddenly excuse everything they did leading up to killing a bunch of people, or make it okay.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
I think the idea of identifying CoS members has some merit, although a dunce cap might be more appropriate than a yellow star.
Or maybe the Puritans had something: we could dunk them in water, and if their body thetans don't weigh them down, they're truly "clear" and then we can put the dunce cap on them.
I don't know about you all, but I want to be able to identify people with goofy beliefs. At least on Sunday the religious nuts go to church so for a few hours a week we know where they're all at.
Anyway, everybody knows the only true belief system is Thelema.
You are welcome on my lawn.
And their members can, in fact, edit Wikipedia from other locations. But this wasn't "members" editing. This was the cult's own staff doing a planned campaign to distort and eliminate the postings of others.
Remember, few "members" are permitted to deal with skeptical outsiders. That's a task reserved for the "Office of Special Affairs", their group that took on dealing with reporters and former members, after the "Guardian's Office" had its leadership convicted of planting bomb threats to discredit the author Susan Meister and convicted of a large array of other crimes. Look it up: this is _precisely_ the material that these astro-turfing censors wanted to eliminate from Wikipedia. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Affairs, it's fascinating what this cult has done historically to harass writers and former members.
Scientology is a racket for the gullible and mentally deficient.
Don't You See? It's Da JOOOS.
Wow... way to make your case, there. Nope... not crazy at all. Now, where'd I put that icepick...
You see the my.php part of that? Try again. Take your time, download paint.net or GIMP or whatever, and give us an actual working link.
In a way Wikipedia is just like IRC: +v is a privilege, not a right.
/kick /ban.
Wiki did the equivalent of: "/mode -v CoS"
Just "/ignore CoS" and maybe CoS will stfu and gtfo without requiring a
a pointy little Dunce cap!
There is no obligation to religion/superstition by private groups. It is time anti-religionists went on the offensive to assert ourselves (legally) against superstition.
We don't have to give religionists anything we are not obliged to in law, and we do NOT owe respect to superstition. Scientology in my opinion is a blatant con game, and hence worthy of (legal) denial of support. Supporters should be exposed so those of us who oppose Scientology can (legally) choose the manner of our interaction with them.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I think a better requirement would be to prominently display the amount of their and others' money the Scientologists have siphoned off them.
So...if something is not digitalish does that make it analogy?
Equine Mammals Are Considerably Smaller
This is a fake for many reasons:
1) One of the tags is "Marcab Confederacy." The Marcab Confederacy is part of the confidential OT levels in Scientology (like Xenu) and would never be disclosed publicly.
2) David Miscavige stays out of the public eye. To my knowledge, he has never issued a public statement on anything and the most recent interview he has given was over 10 years ago. If this was
authentic, it would have been issued by a spokesperson, such as Tommy Davis.
3) One of the comments on the article posted by the author is "NOOOOOO IT'S REAL IT'S REAL. "
The author took some quotes and ideas from speeches Miscavige has delivered over the years at Scientology events and tried to present it in a way that is accessible to the public.
Godwin's Law IN THE ARTICLE AND SUMMARY! YES!
A missed opportunity to combine both the infamous "First Post" and "Godwin's Law -- Discussion Over", making the shortest Slashdot comment thread theoretically possible.
If only the article somehow involved Natalie Portman eating Grits and telling CoS "All your base in those Hawaiian volcanoes belong to us"...
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
... it's obviously a Miscavige of justice. I'll get me coat.
Gee, they didn't even wait until the discussion thread to invoke the Nazis. Isn't that an automatic epic fail?
Life needs more saving throws.
+1 hat-stand
Wikipedia is in league with Xenu!!!
Wait, did you just impy that killing kittens is worse than killing people?!?
i see that all my misconceptions about the scientologists and scientology was wrong ! they were quantum angels from the sky. or whatever. yes yes. nazis. and the yellow star. yeees. that. that and a f#@in pair of boots to be fitted into that guy's ass.
Read radical news here
n/t
you had me at #!
"An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind"
So Hitler did not allow the Jews to edit their own wikipedia entries? I'm not Jewish, but I thought they were pissed about the whole genocide thing.
Scientology is an elective class of people, on the whole. It is not an ethnic grouping of some historical standing, with traditional relations - good and bad - with the broader community.
CoS shared some characteristics with Israeli intelligence and guerilla information warfare outfits. Beyond this, the analogy that refers to this effort by the "Church" to control its public perception to the Nazi program to decimate European Jewry is disgusting.
"Calling 4Chan!"
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
I wasn't going to comment at length about this, but this guy's rant just screams for a line-by-line rebuttal.
Sorry, but this isn't a hate crime. Blocking someone from using your privately owned service (which Wikipedia essentially is even if the public contributes to it) is perfectly legal. You can even block groups of people. If an evangelical Christian group started post-bombing a forum I run telling people to accept Jesus or burn in hell, I'd ban the lot of them. They could scream and shout all they wanted, but it wouldn't be a hate crime and they wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on if they tried to sue me for access to my site.
So leaving the Scientology compound is undesirable? Isn't that one of the signs of being a cult? Telling members that they should either reside on "the compound" or else?
I'll have to get back to you on this. Wikipedia's takeover of the US government is still in the pre-alpha stages. Seriously, though, how does a private entity banning a group on grounds of abuse equal Nazism. Oh right, because it happened to them, therefore it is evil incarnate.
Personally, I've always found sanity overrated. *cue Daffy Duck looney laugh as I bounce off the walls*
Brutal? Criminally attacking? I must have missed the news story where Wikipedia sent storm troopers into the Scientology compounds to shoot random people, beat them with their own monitors, and hang them with Ethernet cabling. It didn't happen? It was just an IP ban? The horrors!!!!
I'll give "the world's most ethical people" a pass since every group pretty much thinks they are the best. Otherwise why would they belong to the group. (Yes, I'm stifling a lot of laughter given Scientology's past behavior here.) But presenting their "religion" in "the most positive and truthful light"? Translation: "Wikipedia wouldn't let us mass-edit pages to spin everything to favor us. How dare they not give us the final word on what should be written about us on their own site!!!"
I'll agree with him here. Tons of nonsense. Of course, it doesn't help when your "religion" is nonsense to begin with.
This post brought to you by the letter P, the number 666, and a big honkin' paycheck from Psychiatrists Insistent on Scrapping Scientology.
Perhaps he can instruct me how to receive these payments. I missed out on the "Jews run the world" power position. At least I can settle for "paid by the Psychiatric-Pharmaceutical industry a
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
the wiki reich is imprisoning the scientologists.
I think thats perfect for scientoligy and should perhaps be some sorta confirmation in all other entries before changes are made... or at least some of them that inspire such a debate. As for comparing them to the jews and normal people as nazis here's the thing; yes, I am atheist... Yes, I think alot of stories of bible are nuts but not as nuts as half the stuff I know about scientology. I listen, watch, or read anything on them and the idea of a jewis carpenter walking on water, healing people and dying and comming back seems totally sane and rational to me.. In fact you could tell me the moon conspiracy, bigfoot and lock-ness are real, you have proof and elvis is behind them all and I'd still think you were a million times saner.
Anyways. Rant done, good job on blocking them
Probably a good idea to do this with all organized religion, cult or anything else with such conflict
Take care
Geo
P.s. I don't give a poop if someone hates me for what I said. If you reply with intelligent, replyable answer I will
Otherwise don't bore me
If you Scientologists wouldn't mind, yes. Thanks. Perhaps tin foil hats as well.
cross the CoS, you get reamed. amongst their successful takedown targets: the IRS. yes, the IRS. read all about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_snow_white
see the part where they break into IRS offices? i wonder how many times this section has been deleted by CoS griefers
this is a good article:
http://www.villagevoice.com/content/printVersion/487758
if these assholes have no bringing the god damn IRS to heal, what the hell do you think they are going to do about wikipedia? we all should worry, these CoS trolls are committed, and the splash damage could seriously bring wikipedia's integrity into question if the CoS wins any sort of battle with wikipedia
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
And systematically assault and harass all known critics of his "religion."
I honestly think this world would be a better place if the people who run this sick sham of a "religion" were taken out back and had the shit kicked out of them. Not the underlings, many of whom are probably genuinely confused / lonely / sad people on the margins of society...
But the people who perpetuate it? Fuck 'em. They're the real terrorists and I frankly don't give a shit if they get tossed in some backwater pound me in the ass prison.
From the way people are responding, I'd have to say that either:
a) They didn't RTFA; or
b) This went WHOOSH! over their heads
Some of the replies come from people who clearly did read the "statement," and they still didn't realize it was a parody. For goodness' sake, someone's even tagged it fakepost!
Well, are the kittens Scientologists? Or at least L Ron Hubbard's kittens? What about the people? I think that answers that.
I think they should be issued yellow stars. They can wear them in opposition to the Wikipedia action and everybody who interacts with them can have a reasoned debate knowing they are talking with a religious zealot over a resource striving, however imperfectly, to be somewhat scientifically, socially and economically accurate.
Sometimes religious zealot rants go against that. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with CoS creating a web page refuting every objectionable thing in Wikipedia and adding any color needed to enhance clarity from their perspective. There is nothing wrong with respectfully asking that site be linked in the Wiki article.
The information need not be suppressed. It need not be endorsed by Wikipedia. It needs to be identified as strongly supported by a faction of the society, and refuted on some rational basis by another larger faction of society.
This is a religion invented and created by a science fiction author as a lark. The fact there are so many zealots involved in the day to day "process" of the religion in no way makes it any more or less real than any other religion, but to some it seems more of a fixation than a belief.
But then I suppose plenty of people say that about the genuflections of Jews and Muslims too.
The problem with most scams is the people that do them usually aren't that smart and get caught. Scientology is an extremely well thought out scam operated and organized by the same people who run Amway and other scams. (Yes... I called AmWay a scam because it is). They keep control close to them and only let people *think* they have power. Only the super rich can make it to the top and by then those people are so greedy the truth doesn't bother them at all.
I truly believe in everyone's right to believe in what they want to. However... when your organization is blatant in it's manipulation of desperate people... then i have a problem. Hiding behind the wall of religion to promote an incredible pyramid scam is beyond cowardice. The only reason they haven't been busted is the lack of evidence... but that is because they are so secretive and protective of their "secrets".
Sigh... it's so sad that there are so many people in the world like this.
I want to watch a holocaust survivor walk up and belt him one for comparing the murder and suffering of millions to a packet filter rule.
will Scientologists have to wear yellow, six-pointed stars on our clothing?
Yes.
Hey David Miscavige! Go jump on a couch.
You know the Nazis had pieces of flare they made the Jews wear...
It's FLAIR, you insensitive clod!
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth gets you modded -1 Troll
Nothing wrong with his analogy at all - for people who can't tell horse shit from roses. IF the Jews were only being prevented from trespassing on other people's (intellectual) property, THEN the analogy might fit. CoS has been abusive and arrogant in their dealings with the Wiki. The Wiki isn't exactly "public" property - that is, it is not owned by the government, it wasn't built by the government, and taxpayers don't have a monetary interest in it, in any way. The Wiki, like any private individual, can ban any person or group of persons for almost any reason, and they don't even have to justify it in a court of law. In this case, however, it could be easily justified in any impartial court, without ever once mentioning relious beliefs. CoS needs to change their conduct, plain and simple. Wiki doesn't care that they are a bunch of nutcases, they only care that the nutcases are abusive.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
As long as Wikipedia's "power" does not have force of law, it is not censorship. You don't have to give them this power over you, and you can take that power away from them very easily by ceasing to go there. Make your own "Freepedia" if it really bothers you so much.
These people are being persecuted because of their beliefs and their willingness to stand up for their beliefs.
Hogwash. They're being excluded from using someone else's property because they behaved badly when they had access to that property.
Want to talk about persecution? Google for Keith Henson.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
The IP addresses were banned because they continually broke the terms of service for the site. If you constantly break the rules, expect to be punished. I don't understand how you find this somehow to be prejudice? Its prejudice against people who break the rules constantly, I suppose...
They're not being persecuted for their beliefs at all. It has absolutely nothing to do with that. In fact, I'm guessing you're comprehension is on par with Miscavige. His comparison is absolutely flawed so much that I have to wonder if he's either that stupid or if he knows its bad but just hopes that dropping the term Nazis will make people overlook the enormous gaping logical flaw in his argument.
Religous beliefs do NOT give you the right to blatantly break the rules of a website. If you somehow think thats the case, then I don't know what that makes you.
Aaaaa I see Godwin's Law has proved itself yet again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_Nazi_collaborators
There's more if you google around. There were also a number of international very high level zionists who wanted the persecutions, because it served their interests to get more immigrants to go to palestine to help start the jewish state there. Germany even offered a one time bailout/bribery fee to have the whole jewish population moved, but it was rejected by these same rich zionists, it is like they wanted the holocaust so that there would be this huge compelling reason to forcefully takeover what is now Israel, an excuse. Fascinating history. Gruesome, but fascinating, and plenty of odd occurrences and traitorous activities and high level machinations (the bankrolling of the nazi regime is another interesting aspect, some very serious charges could have been levied there but weren't in the allied world, and a lot of these bankers were guess what) and so on to go around. The allies intel knew the camps were in operation, yet failed to ever destroy the rail lines leading into and out of the camps to help shut them down. You have to wonder why this wasn't done.
So, if you didn't know about it, jews working for or bankrolling the nazis and collaborating, etc., consider yourself now informed, and go do your own research. If you live in Germany or a few other nations with so called "hate crimes" laws, watch your step doing the research.
One of the things you will find out is how nasty they get if you try to bring these subjects up, you get immediately labeled anti semite or whatever.
It is actually a crime to bring this up in a public setting in some nations. It is labeled "holocaust denial". One of the more blatantly newspeak big brother thought crimes out there. For instance it is illegal to just dispute total death figures, or try to find details on deaths from dysentery as opposed to direct fast executions. Not that camps didn't exist or that a lot of people died there, but just to try and prove that in some instances the numbers were much lower than the "officially recognized" figures. That is considered an actual bona fide crime that they can and do prosecute people for and lock them up.
I don't think anyone outside the CoS's cultists will take such a comment seriously. All the +5 comments I see here are variants of "Bwahaha! Fool." in discrediting Miscavige's analogy.
However, remember that one way the CoS keeps its claws on its cultists is by appearing to them as a persecuted minority. This /. comment is enlightening.
Hence, I believe this comment rather serves to get his troops to hang tough and together.
Misleading titles? Inflammatory blurbs? Keep in mind that Slashdot is a tabloid.
I supposed it depends on the people in question.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
The best analogy I can think of is the "Index" in medieval times.
It was a list of books that only special educated people (eg. priests) were allowed to read.
Since books were the only mass medium in those times, you couldn't reach the people with your ideas if your book was on the Index.
Now scientology wants us to believe that they are being censored out of everything simply because they are scientology. Not because they have another idea about some things, and are intolerant to most people's ideas. And certainly not because they are effectively vandalising wikipedia that way. Plus, it is only wikipedia.
The Index existed around the same time as the inquisition, so hinting towards persecution after loosing your right of free speech is valid. The thing is they didn't loose their right of free speech.
Wiki-nacht was 'the night of the lost privileges'. It was a major pogrom which marked the overt beginning of large-scale "had about enough of your crap" against the COS.
His official titles are Chairman of the Board Religious Technology Center, and Captain in the Sea Org.
Also, this seems like a parody press release.
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
These people are being persecuted because of their beliefs and their willingness to stand up for their beliefs.
No PEOPLE are being "persecuted".
This has nothing to do with belief or standing up for belief- That specific range of IP's was caught trashing various Wiki pages, deleting posts without cause, adding false information with no support, ignoring all other moderators, and in general completely disregarding the Wiki edit procedure.
Therefore, that range was blocked due to excessive, repeated vandalism. Note that those IP's can still VIEW the Wiki, they just can't CHANGE the Wiki. Anybody who works for the CoC who wants to continue to edit can simply log in from a different IP or use a proxy.
But it just goes to show how out-of-touch with reality the CoC is, if they don't even understand what a proxy is, and continue to launch their smear campaigns from their own registered IP addresses. I believe the phrase my grandfather always used was "Even a dog won't shit where it sleeps".
You do realize the Nazis purged Jews out of the ranks of military, police, and civil service, right?
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
Oh dear, it was the fault of the Jews all along, was it...who'd have guessed it!
Eric Cartman?
Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
The CoS are making themselves out to be the persecuted minority because Wikipedia has banned them from editting pages. It was not because they were making new pages to promote their beliefs, but rather because they were vandalizing pages of other beliefs with their propaganda. What was that saying everyone's mother told them, " If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. They dug their own grave by being disrespectful to other and vandalizing others' pages... now they have to lie in that grave they dug.
Just because you are wrong and I called you out on it doesn't mean I am a Troll.
So the church of Scientology actually recognises the Holocaust now? Ah well :)
Yes but they blame psychiatrists for doing the Holocaust, and 9/11, and blowng us up with hydrogen bombs millions of years ago. Yes really.
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
I believe L.Ron Huber's views of a, "Church of Scientology", are a form of Passive Intolerance. Much of today's news is filled with the antics of those who do not Tolerate. Proud Ignorance, to me, is not a badge of honor, but a cancer of the inner self. Also, in a some-what permissive culture such as what I live in, I find it troubling that the "Scientology Show-off's" find it easier to to sue their detractors, than live by a way where strength in conviction has always proven to be the best offense.
I hope you are not implying that killing kittens is worse than killing people.
Let's try a thought experiment, just for kicks:
Which one feels worse?
Now, of course it's not an even comparison: the kittens are defenseless from the start.
True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
Not only does the story Godwin itself, but it's pure troll.
Lots of sites are carrying this story, and experience has made us all quick to believe the most ridiculous things about Scientology, but this looks incredibly fake, and I can't find any reliable sources.
Does anyone have any evidence that this is real?
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
"generic" People feels worse.
kittens don't even come close.
Even 99% of specific bad people probably.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
From TFA:
The Scientology religion is the only major religion to have emerged in the 20th century.
You're forgetting Jedi - which scored higher than you multiple national censuses. Whats that you say? Its made-up science fiction? Yes, and so is Jedi.
It is the world's fastest growing religion, found in over 264 countries
And this is why they don't let you edit Wikipedia. You only get to 264 countries if you include Narnia, Mordor, Ankh-Morpork, Azkhaban, Ruritania, Elbonia, Grand Fenwick, and about 55 other places that are as real as Xenu.
(sorry if this is a dupe, but my link to /. went down a few hours ago when I was posting this)
From TFA:
NOOOOOO IT'S REAL IT'S REAL.
Posted 22 Hours Ago
Church of Scientology
Clearwater, FL
Given that this is the same author of the original post, and that there is no link to a CoS website source anywhere, I guess that's not really Mr. Miscarriage's opinion. Not that it would surprise me if it were.
I would guess that yellow star would not fit next to big "SS" mark scientologists already wearing. Well, this would be joke if it was not such insane truth :-(
Wow! Open an argument with Nazi reference. Godwin's law closes the discussion and you have the last word!
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
If just losing editing rights is as bad as Nazi prosecution then by comparison other forms of prosecution must be like killing kittens with sledgehammers.
Didn't you know? Scientologists perform a semi-annual rite in which they kill kittens with sledgehammers and then inject their blood with the contents of the kittens' brain stems. I read it on Wikipedia before the Scientologists edited the article to hide these facts.
CoS and Miscavige are FAIL. Over and over again.
(Mod points yesterday, none today..!)
David Miscavige says "With this brutal decision, not only is Wikipedia criminally attacking the world's most ethical people, members of the Scientology religion, but it is preventing Scientologists from presenting our religion in the most positive and truthful light."
With this brutal decision (I woke up this morning and found myself unable to write about how I debated the Dalai Lama to a standstill at the age of 12) not only is Wikipedia criminally attacking (we are so going to sue you non-profit Wikipidea) the world's most ethical people, members of the Scientology religion, (hyperbole is something that happens to other people) but it is preventing Scientologists from presenting our religion in the most positive and truthful light. (I admit we do put propaganda on wikipedia but I really thought that was what it was for I mean look at all the good press that Obama fellow gets on Wikipedia)
Written from The House of the Venerable and Inscrutable Colonel
State Secretary Rigmor Aasrud said that the activities in question might be prosecuted as fraud or as violations of existing healthcare regulations.
Whoa, wait a second. That's actually an excellent point. Are personality tests the domain of psychologists, particularly when used to render a diagnosis (even as simple as "you're depressed") unless clearly being used to entertainment value? If so, then it would seem that Scientology is either:
I can't see how they could avoid being subject to HIPAA if they're presenting their tests as legitimate, informative procedures. If HIPAA does govern them, then I can imagine about 1,000 ways they've violated it based on headlines over the years.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
I felt like it was April's fool when I read this /.. Isn't ironic to read an article about Scientology being bashed when the Google Ads displayed at the top of the page is one about the Scientology Church? This made my day!
Here's a better analogy: Miscavige is upset because Wikipedia erected a fence to stop an ongoing problem of vandalism by CoS members. The whining suggests that the approach is working.
The analogy is horribly flawed
by BadAnalogyGuy (945258)
yathink?
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Parent comment is not a troll. Someone with mod points doesn't want /. readers to know about the RPF camps where they make people run round a pole for 12 hours a day.
"There is nothing wrong with his analogy" says a user with the name BadAnalogyGuy.
Too perfect.
Well, yeah. I'm no old-timer, but even I know that BadAnalogyGuy always comes through with... well, bad analogies.
Your argument is hilarious.
That's the point. /discussion
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
That was an awesome analogy.
More to the point, it is not a belief that has earned the banning, it is a behavior. Break the rules, post self-serving lies (yes, lies, as in deliberate alteration of facts), and so forth and you will find yourself banned. Your race, creed, color, religion, or national origin have nothing to do with it.
Comparing those nuts to the extermination of Jews by the Nazis is interesting. One can't help but wonder if such apparently disingenuous writing won't encourage inhumane treatment of the cult members in the future, as it certainly provides proof to those of us reading this on Slashdot that the cult should be considered a...cult.
The again, isn't Slashdot a cult? ;-)
We just haven't applied for a religious tax deduction, or teach that aliens came down to start our religion, and haven't told people to give us lots of money, take our trainings, and don't go after those who leave the Slashdot cult.
The Church, which is located only meters from Ballo's dormitory, states that the results had shown Ballo was "depressed, irresponsible, hyper-critical and lacking in harmony."
Family blames Scientology for daughter's death
Apparently she suffered from periods of depressions; the critical and negative response she received from CoS pushed her a bit too far. She was twenty years old.
This particular case combined with other reports have caused the Norwegian Government to take a stern look at the practices of CoS; and try to evaluate if their practices comply with the law.
The Long Now Foundation
Kittens are at least consistently cute and affectionate. It's like having a warm snuggly fuzzy ball of love with a "blend" setting. =)
Tell Mr. Miscavige to call me after they have their own Krystalnacht. Until then, perhaps he should watch the hyperbole.
Its more like telling child molesters they can't live near schools and playgrounds anymore. They broke the rules after repeated warnings and now they have to deal with the punishment, that is to say they have people editing Wikipedia from computers not on their company's IP range. Real hardship, that.
I also don't put Wikipedia, no matter how popular it is, as having the same amount of influence and power as Hitler's Germany. I mean, seriously, its a website anyone (that isn't part of a wingnut cult) can edit, not a government that has a standing army or anything like that. So comparing themselves to the Jews, or the Five Civilized Tribes, or the slaves is completely absurd.
Live by the sword, die by the sword. I'm not in favor of any kind of censorship of any kind (and technically, it's not censorship unless the government uses legal means to stop publication). However, with the Scientologists, it's the chickens coming home to roost. They want to stop other people from exercising free speech so they have no right to demand that right for themselves.
Actually, there were high ranking members of the Nazi Party that were part jewish.
They had loads of fun in Canada, too. You see, Health Canada investigated their "auditing" and found them to be, in fact, pedaling "Alternative Healing" but doing so in a fraudulent manner, and they published this report. There was also a Canadian couple that quit Scientology and was telling their story. Now, fast forward a bit, and the Church of Scientology has infiltrated the US government almost to the top. There is a huge raid on their offices, which uncovers a lot of interesting information. First, it had information all about their undercover ops in the US and Canada. It also had information about how they bound and held prisoner Michael Miesner. For whatever reason, those charges in the USA got themselves vanished, but not before the FBI forwarded this information to Canada! Now Canada finds here in their cabinets, confidential government of Ontario and RCMP memos! They find they have agents infiltrating the hospital where the doctor who wrote that scathing report on their psychic healing works! They find they have guys in Canada Revenue looking for dirt on the couple I mentioned before, anything to bring them down! Not willing to bring charges on that alone, the RCMP sent two undercover agents into the Toronto branch. Using information they gathered, warrants were issued and all kinds of files and audiotapes were seized. They had all the evidence they needed for these break ins and thefts and assorted other crimes. They had also broken into many Toronto office buildings to steal corporate information, too, anything to potentially in the future be used against their enemies (who are legion). In the end, 14 people plus the Church itself were all summonsed. The Church tried to get the warrants invalidated. They failed. They tried to blackmail the judge, they failed. They tried to plea bargain, "we'll donate millions to any charity you want if you drop the charges against the church, you can have our members, fine, but not the church." It was declined. They tried to get all of their files detailing their undercover ops and breakins and criminal harassment ruled as confessional material, and inadmissible in court due to priest-parishioner confidentiality. That failed too. Then they tried a massive smear campaign against the Crown prosecutor. THAT stunt got the church itself a $1.6 million dollar judgment. And since their lawyer was spewing it too in press releases, he himself got a $400,000 judgment. (never libel nor slander a LAWYER). In the end, all of the criminals working for the Church were convicted (some cases are still ongoing I believe, 20 years later). The church is still trying to appeal its own convictions and judgments. Their fine for libel though, and their lawyer's, those have been upheld all the way to the Supreme Court, so that's done, no more appeals, only took 10 years! They repeated their slander every step of the way, too, in press releases and in court, and in every appeal they maintained its truth even though most of it was provably false. I would have thought that continuing to repeat the same lies after a judgment for doing so would be contempt of court, and get their lawyer hauled before the judge in irons, but I guess the Canadian legal system doesn't work like the American versions do on TV? ;)
And yes, the Church called the Ontario government Nazis. The church has its own fake "tolerance" watchdog organization. According to their brochures, they stand up against all intolerance, though in practice only if it is against the CoS. It condemned the government for persecuting a poor religion, when all the religion did was slander, libel, and order criminal acts against Canadians and their government. I believe the argument went, "Members of the church give all their worldly possessions to us, and we support them. So fining the church directly punishes all of our members! You have a slippery slope that says a church is responsible for the actions of its members, and you can punish all members of the church for the actions of one
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
Sledgehammers are too quick... Try a blender.
So, kittens are more important than Jews?
and we don't have a Wiki Admin who is a member or favors them over another group.
Though your criticism of SOE and Smedley is exactly the reason I don't really like COS being banned from edits of articles relevant to them. What is one person's truth can be another persons heresy.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Pasta Be Upon Him!
Ramen.
We must move up our plans! Start shipping those Scientologists to the camps immediately!
Wearing the star in a climate that hates people who wears the star should be a sensible comparison to being outcast from Wikipedia?
Hey, how about this: Make Scientologists wear some symbol that marks them (a big bright L on the forehead would be appropriate IMO), and ask them again if they still feel like this is about as much a problem as being locked out from a Webpage.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Like it's really that hard to find it, or something?
Well no, the first thing they appeal to is the courts to get critics slapped with copyright violations. Then they talk about how they're being repressed, as they try to jackboot all opponents into the dirt.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Repressive systems have no use for facts they can't alter to fit into their world view. Read your 1984 for reference.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The difference here is that Judaism is a real religion and scientology is a fraudulent scam. They should be put out of business in this country as well.
Epic troll is epic :). It pleases me to see that some still practice the ancient art; however you failed to get modded up :(. But I'll play along:
When your beliefs include killing all who oppose you, it's only fair that you get the same in return, no? Not that Wikipedia banning you from editing is the same, but still.
Actually, it was the ones who escaped early. Nazis weren't interested in having Jews as soldiers or police, or in any other position for that matter. Jews were already being soldiers, police and all other imaginable things prior to Nazis taking power; it was the Nazis who removed them from these positions.
What the heck does this have to do with Scientology, thought?
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
The Jews weren't harassing a free service using it to spread lies.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Persecuted? Because they are locked out from editing (not viewing, altering) a webpage? Not because they're CoS, but because that group deliberately and repeatedly vandalised WP and filled it with false information?
That's rich. Wait 'til I (or whoever) fills the Something Aweful forums with that info. Can you see SA swarm over WP, trash it, then cry NAZIS when they get locked out?
They're not locked out for their faith or believes. They are locked out for vandalism. Like any vandal group that tried to dump trash on WP.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Are you referring to CO$ or wikipedia?
I don't see why they're called a religion, *and* given tax breaks, when they don't take "offerings", they charge real money for services.
Worse than a yellow star: make them advertise in the "adult services" section of craigslist.
Point of information: in 1967, at the Worldcon, a number of us were standing around John W. Campbell (go google him, those who don't have a clue, and add "analog" to your search), and someone asked about scientology and LRond, who Campbell knew very well. His answer was that over the years, Hubbard had wandered back and forth between believing it, and thinking it a great scam.
mark "I report, you get the idea"
Just Kidding! (There goes my positive karma rating)
On the other hand, if it comes to a choice between kittens and puppies....puppies win hands down IMHO.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Would anyone here complain if Gitmo were repurposed solely for curing the world of scientology?
It'd be better than its current racist use, at any rate.
Scientolology has long likened themselves to Jews under Nazi persecution. This is nothing new, decades old even. I think it most likely came about the very first time some critic started investigating them. It is sickening, but so again, that adjective applies to most of their activities.
The silly thing is, of course: their own efforts to control public perception of their cult have done more to harm its public perception than any other single thing possibly could. Without the attacking of critics, etc. they'd simply be considered a strange but harmless UFO cult. Funny how that works--it seems like most cults have some kind of self-destruct gene.
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
Nice. Self-Godwinning-Slashdot-Articles...
The IP addresses were banned because they continually broke the terms of service for the site. If you constantly break the rules, expect to be punished.
Maybe we can find a DA somewhere to charge them with hacking?
All scientologists should wear a bright yellow shirt with huge star on the front saying "I'm a gullable idiot - please laugh at me"
Awesome troll is awesome. A round of applause for the Gentlemen under the bridge!
P.S. What Wikipedia really aught to do, is to re-direct scientology IPs to articles which may enlighten lower ranking scientologists, like Xenu, Space_opera_in_Scientology_scripture, etc.
Yah, this is less like WP pining stars on CoS and more like the Jews telling the Nazis to go bother someone else for awhile.
I imagine it may work out slightly better, but if I was WP, I'd be expecting a DoS(network, legal, or R2-45)
Please us smaller paragraphs. I honestly couldn't get past the first few lines as it all started to blur together. You wrote a lot so I hope I'm correct in assuming you'd like people to read it. Please, in the future, make such posts easier to read.
Scientologist should wear tin foil hats, I think that's more appropriate.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
'What's next, will Scientologists have to wear yellow, six-pointed stars on our clothing?' During World War II, Hitler forced Jewish men, women and children to wear a a yellow cloth star bearing the word Jude to brand them in the streets of Europe, and in the Nazi death camps."
Well, if that's a problem, we could force them to wear a colored arm-band around their right arm. This shouldn't be a big deal, since many of their members already do. And if they are extra-good, they get the gold-colored band and they can even spend one night per week with their spouse! /Heebie-Jeebies/
Seriously, name a single other "religion" that charges members "donations" individually for services, complete with a price sheet?
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
No. How about a five pointed one?
Have gnu, will travel.
Actually if the author had looked it up in Wikipedia he would have found that Scientologists would not wear the Star of David.
More accurately;
If they were a religion they would wear a purple triangle
-or-
If they were mentally ill or an "asocial element" they would wear a black triangle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badges
Tisha Hayes
There are three meaningful differences:
1) Nobody is being identified as CoS. The comparison is ridiculous and specious on its face. However, I can understand how Scientologists wouldn't want people to know who they were.
2) CoS is being removed from a private site with limited reach (admittedly an important one), but this in no way affects them outside that site. This is no more "censorship" than would be being removed from the golf course that senators play at.
3) CoS is being removed for a pattern of poor behavior of editing things in their interest, without providing appropriate sources, removing well sourced material, in the hopes of changing their public image. Each of these is against Wikipedia's stated policy, and the group was warned more than a dozen times over the course of several years.
They are merely Godwinning so that they don't have to accept that what happened to them is the result of their organized campaign of unethical behavior (as were it any surprise, given their other activities.)
Routing around in 3, 2...
StoneCypher is Full of BS
Please don't compare all religions with scientology. Scientology is an insult to christians, muslims, buddhists, hindus -- everyone whose religion is more than measly 50 years old, and whose religion has already went through the "H0ly kruz4des!!1" period. Scientology looks like a bad, but dangerous, brainwashing joke. Thank you.
In some respects, I would say yes, as kittens are unable to fight back. But maybe I'm odd... I've never cried for anyone I've known who's died, but I've cried for every pet I had to put down.
Now killing babies vs. killing kittens - there you've got me.
What's your pilot name?
I'm Denidil from Shadowed Command [XSCX], executor corp of Fatal Ascension [FA]
If you cannot keep politics out of your moderation remove yourself from the Mod Lottery.. NOW!
Kudos on the Giant Wall of Text, maybe the CoS will take you seriously and call you a "Berlin Wall"?
Oh, and I agree with what you said. CoS is still corrupt!
There are no perfect answers, only the right questions. More questions at http://foresightandhindsight.blogspot.com/
Perhaps the leaders of the CoS need to take a personality test again. After all, they definitely suffer from delusions and depression, because even a small action is blown out of proportion!
There are no perfect answers, only the right questions. More questions at http://foresightandhindsight.blogspot.com/
It reminds me of a forum where some poster keeps trolling and posting goatse, and then complains when banned.
Tough luck... you break the rules, you get banned. You can call the admins a nazi all you want, but that's just solidifying their thoughts that they should keep you banned.
The Nazis did not persecute Jews for their beliefs. Just being ethnically Jewish was plenty of justification for killing you. They did persecute Communists, Jehovah's Witnesses and others for their beliefs. But with Jews it was all about race and ethnicity.
Unscathed?. Serving in the Judenrat Police in the ghettoes meant you survived longer, but certainly not that you survived. In ghettos where the Judenrat cooperated with the Germans, many policemen survived the war, but were quickly executed when the ghettos were liberated. If a Ghetto was fully liquidated, its police went with it, albeit last. In ghettoes where the Judenrat resisted, the police were as vulnerable as anyone else to the whims of the occupiers. In the camps, the Nazis conscripted Sonderkommando, who mostly just buried the dead. Then they mudered them en mass at regular intervals. Service in the Sonderkommando bought you a few weeks of life and hurt nobody.
Statistically, your best bet for survival was running away and hiding. My great grandmother escaped from a concentration camp and hid with a Polish woman for the duration of the war. My dad's friend Nechama Tec hid with a Polish family in Lodz (or Warsaw, I forget). Her books on Jewish survival and resistance are very good.
It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man
-James Baldwin
'What's next, will Scientologists have to wear yellow, six-pointed stars on our clothing?'
Bill Engvall has a sign for you to wear.
--You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
As both a Jew and a human being, it deeply offends me that David Miscavige feels that being deprived the right to post on Wikipedia is equivalent to genocide. While I disagree with Wikipedia's decision, I think it is a ridiculous statement to compare the two. Not every wrong committed should evoke the Nazis.
MacroHard - Boning you in a big way! (TM)
Why give air time to that moron? You just fed the stray. Expect further over-the-top religious comparisons -- because, well, you've just proven that it pays.
to be persecuted ? Scientology is FAR from that. Persecuting them is more like pursuing criminals and thieves than persecuting a religion. I HAVE been accused of being intolerant against the Scientologists and the LDS, but I feel it is not intolerant but just returning the behavior I get from them. My cousin is due to be married in an LDS temple soon, as her family we are expected to attend, support, provide financial support, but as NON MORMONS, we are also expected to stand outside the wedding with the doors closed until the ceremony is over and they come out fron for the reception. Needless to say the family has SEVERELY rejected that idea and it has caused no end of stress. My 85 year old grandpa, bless his heart, said what everyone else was thinking and refused to go or support, nor will her father give away the bride. She is screaming we all want her wedding to fail, and we are saying what wedding....
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Hate crime... hardly. You abuse a privilege, you loose it. This is not Nazism by even the most extreme stretch of the imagination.
Scientology is an elective class of people, on the whole.
The church membership is elective. The faith community is a protected class. It's perfectly legitimate to sanction the institution of a Church -- various diocese of the Catholic Church have been sued into bankruptcy because of their malfeasance -- but not the religious believers themselves. You don't choose your faith.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
"Godwin's Law'd!!!!"
"OW! my appeal to emotion!"
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
If that wall of text was too much for you to read, you should perhaps take a remedial English course. Most books written for adults are written with lengthy paragraphs and very few pictures.
Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
A closer analogy, while remaining a false analogy, would be for them to wear purple flying saucers, not yellow stars of david.
In any case, it's a false analogy because the wikipedia ban is a result of their active attempts to destroy a shared resource. Any group so engaged risks a similar response. A more accurate analogy would be prosecuting (as opposed to persecuting) people who actively engage in human sacrifice as part of their religion.
Scientology is not really a church - despite the self-styled moniker. Scientology beleivers DO chose their faith. Or are scammed into it.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Forget finding a different DA, just take the same DA from the Drews case. Then you don't even need to find one.
Almost, yes.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I would think that the church of scientology would jump at the chance to wear an emblem which so accurately represents their origins.
"liquidated"
Here we have a contestant for the most innocuous-sounding word used in 2009 to describe mass slaughter. I'll be in the corner, puking.
Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
If just losing editing rights is as bad as Nazi prosecution then by comparison other forms of prosecution must be like killing kittens with sledgehammers.
I hate to be a grammar nazi here, but I think the word you were looking for was persecution not prosecution
Although, I suppose there are many district attorneys and other government lawyers that can prosecute somebody to death.... and I suppose that Nazi prosecutors often led to capital punishment as well, and prosecutors can persecute based on several concepts of bigotry.
BTW, there were criminals in Nazi Germany during the 1940's that under the laws of most countries would be considered to be wrongful behavior deserving punishment of some variety. The differences is that much of the Nazi prosecution also involved prosecuting innocent people as well, and a government that didn't care (too much) if the innocent were found guilty. Not that that happens today in America.
Now whenever someone does something unexpectedly, sometimes in a negative way. I stop. And I think. Why did he/she do that? Was it something I did, something I said?
Now, as far as Scientology is concerned.. there is a lack of transparency, and well, their direction and the way they handle things is.. somewhat unethical.
Also, bringing your ideological conflicts into a public, secular domain, such a move is unwise by any Religious organisation's standards.
Interesting. From the OS X built in dictionary,
liquidate |ËlikwÉ(TM)ËOEdÄt| verb [ trans. ] 1 wind up the affairs of (a company or firm) by ascertaining liabilities and apportioning assets. â [ intrans. ] (of a company) undergo such a process. â convert (assets) into cash : a plan to liquidate $10,000,000 worth of property over seven years. â pay off (a debt). 2 eliminate, typically by violent means; kill.
It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man
-James Baldwin
We'll make it a yellow volcano.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Good posting. A page turner no less ;-)
Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
Gosh, boys, please read the fine print. This article is a HOAX! It is not true in any way shape or form... And all you "experts" fell for it.
There are two kinds of people. Ones that enjoy killing and ones that do not.
Who should be on the receiving side of the sledgehammer is a question of rationalization and you can rationalize anything. All it takes is framing it as The Enemy.
I'd disagree. Your average person has much more ability to defend himself from the above murderous kidnapper.
Also, a fairer comparison would be kittens vs children (seeing as kittens are the infants of the species)...
I didn't say (or mean) that your usage was wrong. The second definition is vastly more rarely used than the first; it was jarring in the context.
Though a Calvanist might argue otherwise, all religions with some doctrine of "free will" or the like would claim that, yes, you do choose your faith.
It depends-Are the "people" your average "cell phone using while driving down that damned road eating a burger and not paying attention to shit" type of average asshats or are the "RIAA Lawyer" type of super asshats?
Because in my experience we have WAY too many of the two groups above and could use a good thinning of the herd while the worse the kitten is going to do is maybe climb you as it chases that piece of string hanging off your shirt. I'd take that over "cell phone driver" and especially over "RIAA Lawyer" any day of the week. Now if you would have said kitten VS puppy, or kitten VS baby THEN you would have had a head scratcher. Maybe you should have used a car analogy?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
... while the politician does evil deeds, for him to actually start doing something for the public which he should have anyway.
Does this sound encouraging?
Democracy almost ensures that rulers and powerful people have no sense of ownership or belonging in the well being of the public. Sometimes I feel monarchy is better because there could be a sense of belonging and there exists a possibility of benevolent dictatorship.
Democracy needs to have a very strong media and transparency, without which it is rule by proxy through temporarily recruited opportunistic agents who crave for credit at best and for power and control over everyone's life at worst.
DemoNcracy is a better word for this suitable design.
Democracy is useful only if accompanied by mandatory voting.
Obama won on a 4% margin, IIRC 52 to 48, and that too of the 60% who voted. In effect a little over 30% Americans wanted Obama or a Democrat to win.
That's minority rule, in one sense.
Back to what makes politicians act - personal loss or threat of it - whether emotional, financial or psychological.
How do you ensure that democratically and transparently?
Do you know which Jews made it through the Holocaust unscathed? It was the ones that joined up with the Nazis as soldiers and police. Through their complicity, these Jews were responsible for the millions that were slaughtered in the camps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderkommando
Are you thinking of these?
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Black triangle. Scientology is not seen as a religion in Germany, at least not by non-crackpots.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
I just classify Scientology as entertainment... problem solved :)
'What's next, will Scientologists have to wear yellow, six-pointed stars on our clothing?'
Nah, a dunce hat and groucho glasses would be fine.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
As soon as i thought about defenseless little kittens getting their tails ripped out i began to shed a tear...
:'-(
*sniffle*
My blood hurts...
Maybe it is just among Jews or historians, but I think of that usage as common. Especially in reference to the ghettos.
It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man
-James Baldwin
Why not just "impy" the kittens in the first place?
suicide is sad just by itself, but killing yourself because of scientology... well, if there has ever been a more pointless death, i'd like to hear about it.
weinersmith
I think he will be justified in his remark if and only if he and his people are rounded up and sent off to the gas chambers. Personally, I find the comparison of anything so trival as a IP banning to the horror of what happened to the Jews in Europe during WWII disgusting.
"You should wear tin foil hats, SO WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE".
Well, yeah. Kittens grow up to be cats. Puppies grow up to be dogs. Therefore, puppies are better than kittens. QED.
Nice last paragraph.
If just losing editing rights is as bad as Nazi prosecution then by comparison other forms of prosecution must be like killing kittens with sledgehammers.
Are you really saying that killing kittens is worse than killing Jews?
Can any religious person be considered really sane?
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
I have yet to see a book with a paragraph in the length of almost two print pages that would not suck (the book, not just the paragraph).
Ezekiel 23:20
No, it isn't. Europe isn't yet a state and my local law says otherwise.
Ezekiel 23:20
You have a slippery slope that says a church is responsible for the actions of its members, and you can punish all members of the church for the actions of one.
See Scientology v. Cult Awareness Network in the US.
Essentially, Cult Awareness Network works to spread information gathered about cults. One woman at a CAN meeting wants help to get her son out of a cult. Another person volunteering for the group (but not acting on behalf of the group) recommends a cult deprogrammer.
They pick up the son and try to deprogram him. Sadly, the son is over the age of 18, which makes what the deprogrammer did tantamount to kidnapping and illegal imprisonment.
$cientology funds the sons resulting lawsuit against CAN, alleging that CAN was responsible for the actions of its volunteer, even though the action was not taken by the group, but an individual outside the actions of the group.
CAN is bankrupted by the legal bills. In the bankruptcy auction, a $cientologist buys up CANs assets, including name, logo, trademarks, and phone number.
Now, when you call the Cult Awareness Network (New CAN), you're calling a scientologist. If you think you're going to get help, you're not.
has to do with the CoS, I would think a face tattoo saying, "Abusive Con Artist" would be more appropriate.
Maybe as a mandated sig, digital signature, etc... too.
Wherever You Go, There You Are
CoS has a long history of bullying any opposition into submission using methods that can be referred to as underhanded. no ones gonna give them the time of day about this, i guess tom cruise and his groupies cant win them all.
Well, duh. Kittens are waaaaaaay cuter. Besides, while there are undeniably far too many people, cats aren't really such significant spike on the Shelden spectrum. Also, while killing humans has palpable benefits to most of the people left alive, killing kittens really doesn't.
</bwahahaha>
"The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."
i accidentally my whole wikipedia privilege. is this a bad thing?
'What's next, will Scientologists have to wear yellow, six-pointed stars on our clothing?
I hope so, it will help me recognize those insane/evil people, so I can avoid them like the plague that they are.
Actually, I think he was refering to jews.
You do know that there is a difference between persecution and prosecution right? One can sometimes lead to the other but they are not the same.
Well the kitten could grow up and pass toxoplasmosis to humans, causing many of those humans to have slower reflexes and thus be less able to drive. :).
That wall of text would have filled up at least a page or two in a book. The problem is not that it's "Too much to read. " It's just that poorly organized structure of the comment is a strain on the eyes, and requires extra, unnecessary concentration. Just like run-on sentences can make perfect sense, but sometimes you are forced to read it multiple times before the idea the writer is trying to convey forms in your head, and then you can continue reading the next sentence without the uncertainty of possibility of losing track of your position in the text, or trying to think too much about what the fuck the author is trying to say because the sentence is so god damned long you forgot how it began, and you start to wonder why the asshole couldn't just separate his thoughts into a few sentences just to make things a little bit easier on you.
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
BadAnalogyGuy is a troll/tongue-in-cheek comedian (depending on your viewpoint). His analogies are deliberately bad. Look at his post history and you'll see.
yes. So he is. How can you tell? His lips move...
I mean really IMO thats all it was ment to be in the start. A nice religious based tax exemption and then they realized people were buying the BS they had to sell so they took it a step further. If you want a lovely afternoon of Scientology hating you can always watch the Anonymous videos on Youtube. I like to watch Scientology try to make moves and totally screw up. It really makes my day.
Also, we need a new mod rank called "BUSTED!" IMO. Or how about a +1 where you get to write your own little thing. Put a character limit like 12 letters?
And this has been another installament of Captain Obvious!
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[It has been suggested that this page or section be merged with Space opera in Scientology doctrine (discuss)]
Like all Scientologists, I am outraged that in the 21st century, it is acceptable for Wikipedia's ArbCom to commit such a despicable hate crime as blocking Scientology parishioners from editing Wikipedia in the comfort and security of Scientology-owned properties. Blocking the IP addresses of computers located at Scientology's Pac Base, Int Base and Celebrity Centre is just a way to force Scientology parishioners into an undesired beingness [citation needed]. What's next, will Scientologists have to wear yellow, six-pointed stars on our clothing?
The goal of Scientology is a sane world, without criminals, without psychiatric terror, without war [citation needed]. Ultimately, the goal of Scientology is sanity itself [citation needed]. Only the insane would attempt to stop Scientology. With this brutal decision, not only is Wikipedia criminally attacking the world's most ethical people, members of the Scientology religion [citation needed], but it is preventing Scientologists from presenting our religion in the most positive and truthful light [neutrality disputed]. There is so much nonsense on the internet about Scientology, all of which was written by anti-religion extremists in the employ of the Psychiatric-Pharmaceutical industry [citation needed]. Many [who?] are also being paid by certain depraved, degenerate factions within the German government [citation needed]. You can't believe any of it [citation needed]. If these scumbags had their way, all children would be psych-drugged into oblivion [citation needed], most eventually becoming high school gunmen [citation needed]; vicious de-programmers would constantly be leaping out from shadowy corners [citation needed]; there would be all-night electroshock parlors on the high street of every village, town and city [citation needed]; and anyone who tried to live an ethical life would quickly receive an icepick lobotomy [citation needed]. This is why it is necessary for Scientologists to try to present a balanced perspective, by showcasing all the good things [citation needed] about the Scientology religion, and removing all the lies.
The Scientology religion is the only major religion to have emerged in the 20th century [citation needed]. It is the world's fastest growing religion [citation needed], found in over 264 countries, with tens of thousands of new people becoming Scientologists every day [citation needed]. Scientology was accepted as a religion by the United States Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in 1993 [citation needed]. Scientology has also been declared a bona-fide religion by Mr. Frank Flynn, Adjunct Professor of Sociology at the University of Kansas [citation needed]. Scientologists in the United States enjoy tremendous tax advantages, not available to members of other religions [citation needed]. Many [who?] celebrities are Scientologists, and ordinary public Scientologists sometimes get to meet them [citation needed]. As members of a minority religion, Scientologists deserve to be treated fairly [citation needed], which means that we should be allowed [citation needed] to do things that other groups may not do. In this way, we are just a little bit compensated for all of our humanitarian efforts [citation needed] and our sharing of Mr. L. Ron Hubbard's extremely workable [citation needed] technology.
Make
were you expecting to see a sig here? perhaps you'd rather see the inside of an ambulance!
So what you're saying is that if Scientology lasts a while longer, it will gain legitimacy? Sorry, not just no, but hell no. If anything, Scientology demonstrates that all these little cults are just crocks of excrement. Old excrement, but excrement nonetheless.
Wait, did you just impy that killing kittens is worse than killing people?!?
how do you impy? Is that something you do with an imp?
Whoops, looks like I claimed that, although it's not my opinion.
However, if Scientology survives and proves to be something more than a fad, and actually becomes peaceful, then it might become legitimate. You can't tell me John Paul II wasn't a holy man, no matter if you're an atheist or some other religion. Now, if you lived in 1100s and were a Muslim, you probably wouldn't be able to say much about those crazy sadistic Christians. However, some things stand the test of time.
I may be crazy, but not because of my religion. And I feel quite insulted when my religion is compared to Scientology. Compare my religion to tribal animal worshipping, but please don't compare it to Scientology. Or I'll unleash a horde of Psychlos and a horde of Xenu's thetan-torturers against you.
Scientology is an elective class of people, on the whole. It is not an ethnic grouping of some historical standing, with traditional relations - good and bad - with the broader community.
Like a, Church?
That may be, but they also don't usually confuse "peddling" with "pedaling".
I do not have a signature
That's exactly how David Miscavige writes and speaks. Remember - to a large degree he's not communicating to you, he is being consistent to the line he has already fed to his followers...
Wouldn't being "depressed" probably be a legitimate diagnosis of someone who does *anything* and goes and kills themselves two hours later?
I mean, okay, they're a bunch of charlatans, we all know that. The thing is, do you hold some fortune teller responsible for your depressed kid's death when the fortune teller makes an obvious read off the kid's demeanor and tells her what is effectively, the truth? Would she have not killed herself if a shrink told her that? I've read nothing to indicate that they made that judgment and then somehow completely broke down her entire psyche so that she's suddenly suicidal after having a great day. I mean, if they really have that super-villain power, maybe there's something in this Xenu shit after all.
These guys need to be investigated completely, but I'm a little annoyed that the reason they are doing it is something like this and not perhaps, the tax evasion, criminal mischief, slander and threats they have made against people in the past. Or maybe those aren't really as important as some MP's kid under the law.
Hey, by all accounts the movie sucked, but the book is actually a lot of fun. And unlike "Mission Earth," it's not preachy or didactic - Hubbard's beliefs are kept to the background, becoming a bit more explicit towards the end.
Though it tends to attract "love it or hate it" reactions: either you love it as an exciting, page-turning thrillride in the pulp style, or you think it's pulp drivel filled with ridiculous science. Suspend your disbelief!
I see it just as valid as any other religion. Heh, heh, heh.
That depends, do we get to bbq the kittens afterwards? I'd ask the same but people taste funny.
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
Hubbard cats? I would hope not. Hemmingway has his own line of cats (and deservedly so), but a schlock writer like Hubbard? He may well deserve a gang of idiots and morons so stupid they'd believe, not just a religion, but one concocted by a failed sci-fi writer. But he does NOT rate his own brand of cat, sorry. Maybe there's an L. Ron Hubbard cockroach... that's a fitting tribute.
-Dave Haynie
I guess Tom Cruise will try to leave a briefcase bomb in Wikipedia's headquarters.
The book of the century has an entire chapter with no punctuation. But I suppose James Joyce would fall under the category of suck, huh?
Disclaimer: Paragraphs or not, I don't read most posts longer than 500 words, unless I have a compelling reason to... and trust me, I'm a message-board junkie.
I hear Emo ninja freaked out and killed himself because someone dropped a spoon.
It's been a long time.
>> Scientology in my opinion is a blatant con game Hah! Your opinion?! It's a fact! Their FOUNDER, L. Ron Hubbard even said the GOAL is to "Make money. Make more money. Make other people make money." with that last part intending to mean make money ... for HUBBARD.
Want to find more fun? Google is your friend!
Don't blame him. Everyone knows kittens control the media, this is just part of their raggamuffian propaganda campaign.
It's been a long time.
Saying you can't edit a specific website isn't the same as killing people. It isn't even the same as government censorship. Private organizations can do whatever they more or less please with regard to IP addresses. In this case, we have a community deciding they are sick of systematic problems being created by a large organization trying to push its POV.
If one wants to really say that there was something bad about this decision one should look at what the ArbCom did to ChrisO who was banned from editing Scientology related articles. Chis is a long-time Wikipedian who has multiple featured articles (that is, articles that got on the front page as featured articles) about Scientology. But, the Arbitration Comittee in its usual brilliance decided that it couldn't possibly be the case that all the blaim was on one side of the dispute so they decided that Chris must have been pushing an anti-Scientology and they threw the book at him.
>> There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with CoS creating a web page refuting every objectionable thing in Wikipedia
... And their auditing methods are ridiculous, namely things like learning to control people and TO BE CONTROLLED. Most of their methods for auditing are brainwashing techniques.
But isn't there some rule in Wikipedia about citing FACTUAL sources? Scientology claims to not be responsible for any death, though the evidence for it is mounting.
There is much evidence that Scientology is a fraudulent pyramid scheme to funnel money into its leaders' pockets.
Scientology DOES use psychiatric methods, mainly REGRESSIVE therapy, which can be mentally harmful -- especially when such methods are used by improperly trained people. But they also use a primitive lie detector (roughly $50 in parts, including the case, sold for thousands to its members-- more proof of the profit-based intent of the cult)to 'detect thetans'
Hubbard said not to talk to critics; only to ask about critics' crimes. They believe that everyone critical of Scientology only does so because they have crimes to HIDE.
Hubbard has made statements about how Scientology will BECOME the government. Who wants a State controlled by any "religious" group? I sure as hell DO NOT, and even oppose the amount of action currently based on Christian values.
Scientology CLAIMS to help people. But when videos of "auditing" sessions is leaked, it becomes clear how much of a FRAUD Scientology is.
L. Ron Hubbard made up a LOAD of crap. Dianetics mentions research often, but none is ever cited. Most people in the profession of his claims will refute everything he says.
He lied about his military record, his education, and SO much other stuff.
So can you PLEASE tell me what good there is in Scientology?
Scientologist: Hurrr Ima pushin mah agendaaa!!!
Wiki: No.
Scientologist: FUUUUUUUUUUU-
It's one thing to be skeptical of Scientology from reading second and third hand articles on the Internet. It's another thing to see directly how this is likely a cult headed by people with serious psychological problems by reading an article written by none other than the CEO of the organization. It's so over the top it's hard to believe this isn't a hoax.
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
I supposed it depends on the people in question.
that reminds me of the joke about the guy who wanted to kill every single jew and a clown
If you've taken the time to learn a language that doesn't, necessarily, "believe in" sentences as a grammatical structure, then I suspect you would find your opinions dramatically altered; at least, you would find it more reasonable to hold multiple concepts and ideas in your mind at the same time, much like is required to understand grammar such as, to provide an example, the Chinese "ba pattern", where the verb of a sentence could be a hundred words away from the subject, although the longest sentences are generally limited to scholarly works, which tend to be both excessively lengthy, but also quite eloquent in their use of idiom. Newspapers and novels have short sentences for the ADD public.
Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
Their existence as a "church" is a tax dodge, and an attempt to avoid the FDA. They presented themselves as a "science of the mind" for many years until the FDA finally stepped and ruled that their claims were fraudulent, and _boom_. They campaigned, long and hard and illegally, to get declared as a "501c3", the US tax classification of religions.
The secret agreement between the IRS and the cult, eventually published by the Wall Street Journal, is here (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/essays/agreemnt.html). It's fascinating reading if you're a bit cynical and realize why a government agency, exhausted with wasting their time on such a group that always screamed bloody murder and had been caught in criminal activity to harass and discredit anyone who bothered them enough, would wash their hands of the matter and settle for this.
Best I can do: inside Wikipedia is EVERYTHING and outside a death camp is EVERYTHING. in one is removed from the other. Of course in this instances there might be other slight differences. But as Victor Fankel said (paraphrased) "suffering is suffering".
6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
People taste like pork, kittens taste like chicken.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
I would think that a CoS Personality test would fall under the same criteria as a psychic's character reading; except the psychic's read is usually much more accurate.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
I read this, then I $#! bricks.
BadAnalogyGuy is a troll/tongue-in-cheek comedian (depending on your viewpoint). His analogies are deliberately bad. Look at his post history and you'll see.
That would require effort. And I'm lazy....
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
That's not the way I read it, he understands what happened completely. What happened to CoS in this matter isn't even unique, if memory serves me correctly Wikipedia once banned all IP addresses from the US Congress at one time.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Maybe there's an L. Ron Hubbard cockroach... that's a fitting tribute.
Actually, it should be clams.
Wikipedia did not ban Scientology, it did not ban Scientologists, you do not get banned for being a Scientologist.
An IP address which belonged to the CoS was banned, not because of its affiliation, but because it has a history of taking a dump on Wikipedia articles, which Wikipedia's administrators don't take kindly to.
Mr. Miscarriage is more like someone who would like the rest of us to walk around with yellow stars. That's probably where he got the idea in the first place. Wait, I feel something attaching itself to me. Could I be a 'Suppressive Person'?
It ain't that simple. EU law can only overrides local law in the areas that belong to the primary EU pillar. Even then the guiding principle has been adopted that local administration should always be the preferred approach.
The German Wikipedia entry explains this in some detail. When I try to follow your link I get a bad URL so I am not sure if and why an English Wikipedia entry wouldn't convey the same level of detail information.
The EU is not yet and may never be a state. Of course it is easy to see that Americans may be confused by this given the lack of legal and administrative integration within the United States.
I;m just making the point that there are Scientologists out there that don't belong to the Church of Scientology. The CoS is everything you say it is, but the faith system is a separable entity. It's an admittedly strange one by my standards, but there is in fact a community of people that read Dyanetics and distribute the schematics of E-Meters and audit each other for free, because they believe in it.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
If only you were a Jew and a Jew with a brain, you might have RTFA'd and spotted the giveaway troll line: Scientologists deserve to be treated fairly, which means that we should be allowed to do things that other groups may not do. You, amongst all the other accidental humourists here in Slashdot-im-morally-outraged-land, have been trolled. Congratulations, ya jackass !
(Y) --- Official AssHat Designation
People are probably better at predicting the horror that is to come, which adds a dimension to their suffering that maybe kittens don't have? Mind you, it's easy to understand the motives for killing people ...
I supposed it depends on the people in question.
that reminds me of the joke about the guy who wanted to kill every single jew and a clown
http://www.bash.org/?171987
[Th3No0b] Im going to be the next hitler
[Th3No0b] Im going to kill all the jews and 1 clown
[RageAgainsttheAmish] why the clown
[Th3No0b] See? no one cares about the jews
[RageAgainsttheAmish] lmao
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
2) I can go back 15 generations in my family tree because the Nazi's had a habit of being thorough and making sure people were in now way "jewish", even if they were christian for 10 generations, they had to be christian for at least 15. I have a hard time believing they would hire anyone jewish as a soldier or a member of the police.
Didn't Hitler have a Jewish grandparent?
Yes, but the Scientologists hate their guts. These "freezoners" (as they call themselves) or "squirrels" (what Hubbard called them) do not call themselves Scientologists, because that is a trademark of the Religious Technology Center etc. etc.
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
I don't know how big the pages are in the books you read, but I didn't think this text was longer than maybe half a page - one page max - of an average book (of the books I read, anyway).
Actually I believe that killing kittens with a sledgehammer ist still much better than putting millions of humans into gas-chambers.
It was the ones that joined up with the Nazis as soldiers and police. Through their complicity, these Jews were responsible for the millions that were slaughtered in the camps.
Please recheck your facts. You really underestimate the efficency of the holocaust. The jews that survived did so because they flew. The jews that joined (or stayed in) the wehrmacht were killed (or at least put into detention camps) with the rest. Yes, they even killed honored soldiers that were considered heroes in WW I.
I once read on the Christianity page that it taught about talking snakes and rules for selling your daughter into slavery and polygamy, so I edited out that obvious vandalism.
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Wait.... you mean BadAnalogyGuy is also the Goatse guy?
Wow, the interwebs never cease to shock and amaze.
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Next up, eldavojohn will engage in a +5 Insightful critique of the Goatse guy's photography technique.
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Cats have a higher rate of "cute" retention though, I think. Although mine's started back into the habit he had when a kitten of trying to smother me in my sleep by laying over my mouth and nose, but that's just him being affectionate. He's usually good with being moved to being an earmuff, because he just wants to snuggle.
I think this is completely different, it's quiet annoying if someone alternates data to fit their ideology, .. this is not what wikipedia was meant for, I can understand that they got banned because they did alternate data intentionally for their benefit and not because it is the truth, worse is that often students look a lot up on sites like wikipedia it is bad enough that sometimes wikipedia publishes wrong information, .. that some moronic group who thinks the universe is only 3000 years old is changing all the input to fit their needs.
If you go on a IRC server and do not respect the rules of that community you will be banned as well, .. if those guys would of respected the rules they wouldn't of been banned, it's because they did it over and over and over again. Worse they did it intentionally to brainwash others, to tell people see it's on wikipedia so it must be true. It is them who are the nazi's, it is them who want everyone to think like them, not wikipedia for banning someone who doesn't respect their rules.
'...'What's next, will Scientologists have to wear yellow, six-pointed stars on our clothing?' ...'
No, your group will wear the other symbol popular at the time.
LOL, CoS stitched on their own stars long ago. All they have to do to draw ridicule is open their stupid mouths. Like the morons handing out the mini- condenced MMPI tests in public( so they can evaluate your needs and fix them of course, for a ridiculous price) Like their spokesmodels melting down on video. Like any discussion of wacked out paranoid bad science friction writers on private yachts. Like anything anyone with a mind of their own hears about SEAORG. Like any of the hush, hush yet openly public screw ups CoS has caused that made the press over the last few decades. Yeah, they need to take responsibility for sewing on their own stars and quit blaming others for their screw ups.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
What you are saying is true, but I spoke of this particular issue, and I doubt that ordinary EU laws can override our national Charter of Fundamental Rights and Basic Freedoms (on par with our constitution), the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union (though this one has yet to become legally binding), and the provisions of the European Convention on Human Rights. All of these actually seem to support support the idea that "an ideology that pushes childrape should be opposed" so I can't see why anyone could be possibly prosecuted for stating the obvious.
Ezekiel 23:20
No. Just so you know. I'm an ex-drug addict. I wouldn't mind going through it all again, just so I can keep myself and family members safe from any sort of religion.
These chemicals are simple and direct, if you have the will and/or support, you can fight them, or possibly live with them. You can't do that with something that messes your head up so much that you don't even realize it. There ain't no drugs that can do that.
It's getting late, and I'm creeped out by my own words, so I bid you good night, and remember kids, keep it logical.
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
FTFA. From Mischievous Guru Miscavige: "(...) Scientologists deserve to be treated fairly, which means that we should be allowed to do things that other groups may not do.(...)" Here we are, we have the explanation why Church of Abuse, Church of $cientology, Church of money extortion do all what they do: because they should be allowed to. Can I be allowed to be happy when such a double-standard people are silenced ? Please ? Why not ? C'mon!
One Godwin point awarded to Co$.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
I'm a Canadian periodically receiving CoS junk mail.
I've been just throwing it away unopened but maybe there's a better (more fun) course of action.
What would you suggest?
Religion is just a sophisticated superstition. If you research it a bit you can easily see a spectrum from the most simplistic beliefs right through to the most modern and complex religions. And all of it is untrue. Apart from that, it's totally wrong that religions get special treatment in law and society. Why TF should they? Especially when the result is they get more money and power to spend on promoting their lies and fucking up people and the world even more than they already are. It's utterly stupid, utterly despicable.
Christianity is NOT better than Scientology. Superficially, it might seem so. But if you look at the reality of what it's doing in the world RIGHT NOW, and worse, what it's done in the past, it's actually far, far worse than Scientology is (so far anyway). Christian religions have been directly responsible for war, death, torture, rape, persecution, suppression, and more, of millions. Also their history is one of greed, power, corruption, lies, manipulation and just about every other negative you could think of. To use just one tiny example, if I'd said this in the past in Europe I'd be tortured and murdered by those same Christian churches. And these things continue to this day. Christianity is killing people right now. And it continues to accumulate money and power and influence. (I won't spell out how, it's not so hard to find out.) If you don't already know this, that means you don't know what kind of organisation you belong to. So how can you reasonably associate yourself with it? You need to research your religion's history. And not what they tell you either. That's just propaganda. More lies, like all religions, all lies. If you believe in that stuff, there's something wrong with what you know and / or the way you think. Some are a lot worse than others (in so many varied ways). But all of them are bad because they teach people to be stupid and they teach outright, provable lies. That's bad for all of us, for all humanity, for the whole planet. (Sorry to be direct, I'm sure you're a very nice person, but that's all the more reason not to be sucked in by those evil organisations. And it doesn't matter if the liars are sincere and believe in what they say. It's still untrue. What I've written above is true, as much as any of us can know about our past.)
But Jonh Travolta has got a really hairy head of hair nowadays, despite bemoaning his incipient baldness long, long ago. So it seems Lord Xenu has The Power to Cure Baldness! Sh*t! I'm going to check out my local CoS tomorrow! Hmmm... I wonder if he can increase penis size too? I guess he could. After all, he could fly all those DC-8-like spacecraft (hahahahahahahahahah - sorry) around the universe so an extra few inches should be easy enough, surely?