And these people are just looking for an easy way out, a "simple solution" to a problem that they simply don't know how to solve. It's so much easier to point the finger at Quake and say, "Video-games made him do it!!!" than it is to point at society at large.
Add shitty parents that want to abdicate responsibility for their shortcomings to id Software et al...
Far from the RIAA hobbling consumers' use of such services, citizens may end up rewriting copyright law, said Jennifer Granick, a high-tech criminal defense attorney based in San Francisco who has represented Kevin Poulsen and other hackers in court.
"The popularity of Napster shows that copyright law has to evolve," she said. "This ruling may be technically right, but there will be a time when you look back on this as The Early Days."
--From ZDNews
So, the real question for the/. crowd is how many of you have written your Senators and Congressmen about this? If this is the groundswell everyone makes it to be, lawmakers will learn real quick that they can either amend copyright laws in the public--not corporate--interest or they can expect to find other employment at re-election time.
And OpenNap servers are just as easy to target for take down by the music industry goons as they get the IPs for them.
I wonder if anyone has considered opening a Napigator/OpenNAP server on HavenCo/Sealand where the can know the IP addy of the server all they care, but can't do a damn thing about it...
Rosen of the RIAA and Erlich of Sony rapidly responded that legislation was not needed, because the market would work out what was needed.
Bullshit! The unpreparedness of the recording and movie industries to deal with digital technology is a clear indication that the market has *not* "worked out what was needed." Instead of working with digital media pioneers like Napster and MP3.com to distribute works online, the old corporations have been blindsided by people more innovative and more nimble. Instead of changing with the times, RIAA and MPAA just whine to their attorneys and file lawsuits to cloud the issue and draw attention away from their outmoded business models.
That's enough of a start to maybe finger the individual's identity. Once the lawyers subpoena the IP that the comment was posted from, they simply traceroute/nslookup it back to the ISP and subpoena any RADIUS server logs from that ISP which would correlate an IP at a given time and date to a real account holder's name....it happens all the time, though at present, there is no statutory requirement for service providers to maintain such logs....though I can see some anti-privacy lawmaker chomping at the bit to legislate this and add another regulatory burden to ISPs.
I you want any real anonymity, use Freedom from ZKS or get someone to set up an anonymous Web proxy in Sealand/Havenco that doesn't log anything.
So if you accepted drug testing during your service years, then why are you opposed to it now?
I can't speak for the Navy, but people who've been around the Army from the span of Vietnam to the present will staunchy defend the reduction in drug abuse that came about because of piss testing, and if a private employer offers better pay or job security with piss testing as a condition of employment, I can't see why anyone who wasn't a drug user would be opposed.
Think about it...less cash shelled out for insurance and rehab programs and less absenteeism = more cash for salaries....
Let's start taking weekly urine samples, too. Doing drugs are wrong. This step will be sure to put a stop to this illegal activity. We just need to be able to hold people more accountable! Right???? Riiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhht...
I can see you obviously never did a stint in the military or on a professional sports team, where routine random drug testing is normal accepted practice.
Oh, but I forget, this is the Generation X Cyberpunk children of hippies culture that won't accept any authority whatsoever, especially the kind that actually might catch them doing something illegal. We just need a completely anonymous society where it's impossible catch anyone doing anything illegal! Right??? Riiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhht....
Car makers don't keep as a secret the inner workings of their cars, so we have the freedom to take our car wherever we want to get it serviced. If a car maker came along who welded the hood shut and said only they can service your car, then nobody would buy it because it's a bad deal. Even if the car were much better than others available, the option of having your car serviced ANYwhere jumps the worth of the car to more than make up for the difference in quality.
Dude...I really wish this was a true analogy! I think I heard a Red Hat rep at a Linux convention in Amarillo last year lecture on this when describing the concepts of Open Source and Free Software.
Back in the day when I was putting myself thru college in the mid 80's before I discovered computing as a hobby (and now a vocation) I used to work in the auto parts (interesting huh?) arena both in the aftermarket and later for a dealer. Seems that auto technology became so advanced and warranties became so restrictive that *nobody* could work on a car anymore except a factory trained mechanic with special factory tools. I guess you technically could work on a modern car, but things seemed alot more "closed-source" than ever starting in the 80's. Makes me wonder if the whole "innovation" was an attempt by the manufacturers to keep cash rolling into the dealerships so that the common aftermarket mechanic, let alone end user/owner, would never have a shot at working on his auto under a shade tree again. Maybe that explains part of the hysteria for old muscle cars....not only are they collectible classics, but an average joe can work on them without proprietary factory training and propprietary factory tools...what better set of wheels for an open sourcer than a VW Beetle/Van or an old (pre 72) Mustang, Camaro, or Vette!
By posting Kerberos to the web, their code lost its trade secret status, but it's still copyrightable and its still theirs.
What would happen if nobody wanted M$'s implementation of Kerberos because it didn't embrace open standards? This already is reason enough to reject it in the geek community. Anyone recall the 80's when *nothing* hardly would interoperate? I say, let Microsoft's version of Kerberos fall flat on its face in the marketplace...already I'm sure many Europeans are worried about some NSA/Echelon backdoor in it and won't go for it because the hood's welded shut. No volume of marketing drivel can cover up the fact that closed source doesn't just keep money in the family, it also allows software manufacturers to hide shoddy workmanship behind a veil of "proprietary trade secrets." It reeks of bullshit as bad as government officials wrapping themselves in the flag and buttoning up in the name of "executive privelege" or "national security" -- it's an immediate tipoff they've got something to hide. Did M$ really innovate much into Kerberos? Probably not, though I admit I haven't read the bloody details...my guts tell me they just want to establish themselves yet another differentiated niche in the marketplace, regardless of whether the technology is better than the open source alternative or not.
I read about this story this at news.com over my morning cup coffee...sure enough, my Napster account was blocked! Between Metallica's harassing Napster with their greed and NetPD's intrusiveness I've had it with them and every other corporate bastard trying to jack over the average Joe...RIAA, MPAA, Metallica, Dr. Dre (not that I listen to rap)...
You built your empire and fame off of people spending money on your records, t-shirts, and concerts. Ironically you'd never be where you are today if it wasn't for the underground/bootleg scene that got you started at the grassroots level.
I had only the Black album and Load before MP3 was big. Had it not been for the MP3 scene and some friends into it I never would have become a bigger fan of yours and probably would never have been exposed to your earlier works.
Well, today I'm pissed. For starters, I busted my Garage, Inc. album in two and *nailed* it to the wall over my desk, then I boxed up my copies of Load, the Black Album, Master of Puppets, and Ride the Lightning and mailed them back to the WHOIS registrant postal address for Metallica.com:
Registrant: Metallica (METALLICA13-DOM) P.O. Box 18327 Knoxville, TN 37928-2327 US
I'm so infuriated at being sold out as a fan that I don't know what else to do with your "commodity" -- you said the word, not me, Lars. You said you were gonna lose fans because of this, well guess what, you're right! I wish I could have been in California last week busting your CDs for the cameras.
About the only thing I respect is you guys grabbing your balls and fighting for what you believe in, damn the consequences -- that deserves some measure of respect, but there is a bigger issue for me and thousands of Netizens here...
The Internet is fast being transofrmed as a place for free expression of ideas to a bastion of corporate greed and government regulation. The Bill of Rights and ideals it was founded on like freedom and privacy are being trampled on left and right, and unless some serious democratic corrections are made to our society, we are headed for an Orwellian future of corporatism or a violent revolution as public outrage mounts. Put down your drumsticks for a minute and read up about the Echelon Project, UCITA, DMCA, DeCSS...they are all storm clouds. I understand if you're pissed off at me for taking an unpopular stance, but it's what I believe in.
Lars, you said on CNET Radio "...I can barely use AOL...I need help" So get out there and SEE...pull off those blinders that AOL pulls over your eyes and passes itself off as the Internet! Get a second PC -- I know you can afford one -- and your local Linux Users Group will be happy to install an operating system that lets you see the Net as it really is. Go watch The Matrix if you haven't already....FREE YOUR MIND!
I don't know how to show you what's out there, but you just might find the Open Source community to be alot better "against the man" folks than you give us credit for. Anyways, screw it, my envelope with your CDs is on the desk and it will stay there until I see what you guys have to say in your/. interview later this week...
I run an ISP and Qwest is notorious for having a dicked up network. I was getting lots of spam from some node on their network a few months ago and emailed root@qwest.net postmaster@qwest.net and abuse@qwest.net It was about the same time that one of their sales reps was trying to get me to lease a T1 from them...
Guess what...their mail server sent back "no such mailbox" daemons on all 3 addies...that made up my mind about doing business with them more than some short-skirted marketroid ever could.
Qwest: "You may ride the light, but the batteries in the flashlight are dead"
Why are you guys moving from DN to Exodus? I've heard lots of good things about DN and was considering colo'ing a server with them...is this just some consolidation between Andover and VA, or is the reason for moving a performance issue?
Any Editors' feedback welcome, as well as any./'ers who've hosted over at DN.
This wouldn't work because users would quickly figure out which people had shared libraries of unblemished songs
Maybe it would...the l33t d00dz will always find a way to get over and what they want, but the clueless lame masses, which far outnumber the geeks on Napster, might be thwarted.
It might even be a popular way for fans to sample music sanctioned by artists...instead of a "this is a pirate copy" dubbed into it, the tracks could say "this is just a demo...you can get a full copy at...."
At any rate, MP3 was hip but not grossly pervasive a year ago when it was still on IRC and FTP servers....now that Napster's here, people with next to no Net savvy have more MP3'z in their laps in a shorter time than a determined, experienced user could get back in the day.
If you take the stance that the smarties will always get their warez no matter what, and then realize that the dumbasses are easy to shut off, it just might work.
And by the way, some proprietary digital format that limits my ability to copy my owned (not licensed) music for my personal use is not acceptable.
Be careful here....some RIAA lawyer might get it up his arse to try and start including audio recordings under UCITA...then you and I *will* have to license, not buy, tunes and we won't be able to transfer the "licenses" to friends or speak out about music we think is shitty or defective:P
Sound too unrealistic? Consider that many audio CDs these days have some "software" component such as a video in MPEG/AVI/etc and many games have CD-playable audio soundtracks.
My money's on Garth Brooks to test this legal theory first and attempt to invoke UCITA..after all he's the bloke who wanted to ban used CD sales!
yes...the provider *should* respond to the demand....with a price plan for heavy users. Pricing by the byte is the only long term model that is economically rewarding to the ISP/Cableco and assures the customer quality-of-service.
Every time you use Napster you are taking money away from people that have put their time and effort into creating a piece of art which enriches the world.
Oh please! Gimme a goddamn break...you think I really feel sorry for Kid Rock and Van Halen as they sit in their Olympic pools? AOL-TW is just another corporate tyrant that needs to be reigned in like the railroad robber barons of the industrial revolution. (What should we call M$, AOL, et al? 'electron barons?':-) Maybe MP3 and open source will finally be the thing that topples the grotesque excess of superstardom and celebrity -- a scourge upon modern civilization.
And let's not forget that Gnutella allows all kinds of information to be spread across the Internet. Not only illegal MP3s, but other illegal and immoral content - pornography, terrorist manifestos, race-hate propaganda and anti-Christian bigotry.
....you forgot all the kool w4r3z we could trade with Gnutella, d00d!
Don't hold your breath for Blizzard to release Diablo II before fall, let alone a collector's edition.....Computer Gaming World's latest "pipeline" says Q3 of 2000:(
I don't see why the people at Nullsoft can't make SHOUTcast into a top-knotch streaming media competitor to these two commercial formats....heck it's almost there as it is. SHOUTcast sound quality blows Real Player and Media Player out of the water, plus Nullsoft has made significant inroads with the Linux/Open Source/BSD community with a de-facto file format--MP3, and support for Linux and BSD servers.
One thing I love about SHOUTcast versus Real Player is that your MP3 player (Winamp, etc.) doesn't shove a bunch of annoying advertising and AOL Instant Messenger into your face.
The new SHOUTcast server released a few weeks ago KICKS ASS! If anyone from Nullsoft is reading this, I think you guys only have 2 additional features to add and you'll be right there with the corporate giants:
1) Add support to Winamp/SHOUTcast for MPEG video 2) Enable SHOUTcast to stream static, prerecorded audio and video files.
AOL never *was* a dman ISP to begin with! Back in the day....a whole 4 years ago....the media called them an "online service" and called ISPs "ISPs."
Somewhere since then the popular media--and I lump ZD, CNET, and Wired in here because they contributed to the problem--started calling AOL an ISP too. In fact you commonly hear the marketroids now calling AOL "America's #1 ISP"
POPPYCOCK! AOL is nothing but a glorified proxy server with substandard interfaces to the Net. Its users are the lamest idiots on earth.
Slashdot Mirror
And these people are just looking for an easy way out, a "simple solution" to a problem that they simply don't know how to solve. It's so much easier to point the finger at Quake and say, "Video-games made him do it!!!" than it is to point at society at large.
Add shitty parents that want to abdicate responsibility for their shortcomings to id Software et al...
Far from the RIAA hobbling consumers' use of such services, citizens may end up rewriting copyright law, said Jennifer Granick, a high-tech criminal defense attorney based in San Francisco who has represented Kevin Poulsen and other hackers in court.
/. crowd is how many of you have written your Senators and Congressmen about this? If this is the groundswell everyone makes it to be, lawmakers will learn real quick that they can either amend copyright laws in the public--not corporate--interest or they can expect to find other employment at re-election time.
"The popularity of Napster shows that copyright law has to evolve," she said. "This ruling may be technically right, but there will be a time when you look back on this as The Early Days."
--From ZDNews
So, the real question for the
Liberty or Death -- Don't Tread on Me
And OpenNap servers are just as easy to target for take down by the music industry goons as they get the IPs for them.
I wonder if anyone has considered opening a Napigator/OpenNAP server on HavenCo/Sealand where the can know the IP addy of the server all they care, but can't do a damn thing about it...
Rosen of the RIAA and Erlich of Sony rapidly responded that legislation was not needed, because the market would work out what was needed.
Bullshit! The unpreparedness of the recording and movie industries to deal with digital technology is a clear indication that the market has *not* "worked out what was needed." Instead of working with digital media pioneers like Napster and MP3.com to distribute works online, the old corporations have been blindsided by people more innovative and more nimble. Instead of changing with the times, RIAA and MPAA just whine to their attorneys and file lawsuits to cloud the issue and draw attention away from their outmoded business models.
That's enough of a start to maybe finger the individual's identity. Once the lawyers subpoena the IP that the comment was posted from, they simply traceroute/nslookup it back to the ISP and subpoena any RADIUS server logs from that ISP which would correlate an IP at a given time and date to a real account holder's name....it happens all the time, though at present, there is no statutory requirement for service providers to maintain such logs....though I can see some anti-privacy lawmaker chomping at the bit to legislate this and add another regulatory burden to ISPs.
I you want any real anonymity, use Freedom from ZKS or get someone to set up an anonymous Web proxy in Sealand/Havenco that doesn't log anything.
So if you accepted drug testing during your service years, then why are you opposed to it now?
I can't speak for the Navy, but people who've been around the Army from the span of Vietnam to the present will staunchy defend the reduction in drug abuse that came about because of piss testing, and if a private employer offers better pay or job security with piss testing as a condition of employment, I can't see why anyone who wasn't a drug user would be opposed.
Think about it...less cash shelled out for insurance and rehab programs and less absenteeism = more cash for salaries....
Let's start taking weekly urine samples, too. Doing drugs are wrong. This step will be sure to put a stop to this illegal activity. We just need to be able to hold people more accountable! Right???? Riiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhht...
I can see you obviously never did a stint in the military or on a professional sports team, where routine random drug testing is normal accepted practice.
Oh, but I forget, this is the Generation X Cyberpunk children of hippies culture that won't accept any authority whatsoever, especially the kind that actually might catch them doing something illegal. We just need a completely anonymous society where it's impossible catch anyone doing anything illegal! Right??? Riiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhht....
I'd like to see them...
harvardian wrote...
Car makers don't keep as a secret the inner workings of their cars, so we have the freedom to take our car wherever we want to get it serviced. If a car maker came along who welded the hood shut and said only they can service your car, then nobody would buy it because it's a bad deal. Even if the car were much better than others available, the option of having your car serviced ANYwhere jumps the worth of the car to more than make up for the difference in quality.
Dude...I really wish this was a true analogy! I think I heard a Red Hat rep at a Linux convention in Amarillo last year lecture on this when describing the concepts of Open Source and Free Software.
Back in the day when I was putting myself thru college in the mid 80's before I discovered computing as a hobby (and now a vocation) I used to work in the auto parts (interesting huh?) arena both in the aftermarket and later for a dealer. Seems that auto technology became so advanced and warranties became so restrictive that *nobody* could work on a car anymore except a factory trained mechanic with special factory tools. I guess you technically could work on a modern car, but things seemed alot more "closed-source" than ever starting in the 80's. Makes me wonder if the whole "innovation" was an attempt by the manufacturers to keep cash rolling into the dealerships so that the common aftermarket mechanic, let alone end user/owner, would never have a shot at working on his auto under a shade tree again. Maybe that explains part of the hysteria for old muscle cars....not only are they collectible classics, but an average joe can work on them without proprietary factory training and propprietary factory tools...what better set of wheels for an open sourcer than a VW Beetle/Van or an old (pre 72) Mustang, Camaro, or Vette!
By posting Kerberos to the web, their code lost its trade secret status, but it's still copyrightable and its still theirs.
What would happen if nobody wanted M$'s implementation of Kerberos because it didn't embrace open standards? This already is reason enough to reject it in the geek community. Anyone recall the 80's when *nothing* hardly would interoperate? I say, let Microsoft's version of Kerberos fall flat on its face in the marketplace...already I'm sure many Europeans are worried about some NSA/Echelon backdoor in it and won't go for it because the hood's welded shut. No volume of marketing drivel can cover up the fact that closed source doesn't just keep money in the family, it also allows software manufacturers to hide shoddy workmanship behind a veil of "proprietary trade secrets." It reeks of bullshit as bad as government officials wrapping themselves in the flag and buttoning up in the name of "executive privelege" or "national security" -- it's an immediate tipoff they've got something to hide. Did M$ really innovate much into Kerberos? Probably not, though I admit I haven't read the bloody details...my guts tell me they just want to establish themselves yet another differentiated niche in the marketplace, regardless of whether the technology is better than the open source alternative or not.
get real you moron...who the hell is gonna grab MP3's on an acoustic coupler at a payphone....
maybe they can...they do own their own original recordings
I read about this story this at news.com over my morning cup coffee...sure enough, my Napster account was blocked! Between Metallica's harassing Napster with their greed and NetPD's intrusiveness I've had it with them and every other corporate bastard trying to jack over the average Joe...RIAA, MPAA, Metallica, Dr. Dre (not that I listen to rap)...
/. interview later this week...
You built your empire and fame off of people spending money on your records, t-shirts, and concerts. Ironically you'd never be where you are today if it wasn't for the underground/bootleg scene that got you started at the grassroots level.
I had only the Black album and Load before MP3 was big. Had it not been for the MP3 scene and some friends into it I never would have become a bigger fan of yours and probably would never have been exposed to your earlier works.
Well, today I'm pissed. For starters, I busted my Garage, Inc. album in two and *nailed* it to the wall over my desk, then I boxed up my copies of Load, the Black Album, Master of Puppets, and Ride the Lightning and mailed them back to the WHOIS registrant postal address for Metallica.com:
Registrant:
Metallica (METALLICA13-DOM)
P.O. Box 18327
Knoxville, TN 37928-2327
US
I'm so infuriated at being sold out as a fan that I don't know what else to do with your "commodity" -- you said the word, not me, Lars. You said you were gonna lose fans because of this, well guess what, you're right! I wish I could have been in California last week busting your CDs for the cameras.
About the only thing I respect is you guys grabbing your balls and fighting for what you believe in, damn the consequences -- that deserves some measure of respect, but there is a bigger issue for me and thousands of Netizens here...
The Internet is fast being transofrmed as a place for free expression of ideas to a bastion of corporate greed and government regulation. The Bill of Rights and ideals it was founded on like freedom and privacy are being trampled on left and right, and unless some serious democratic corrections are made to our society, we are headed for an Orwellian future of corporatism or a violent revolution as public outrage mounts. Put down your drumsticks for a minute and read up about the Echelon Project, UCITA, DMCA, DeCSS...they are all storm clouds. I understand if you're pissed off at me for taking an unpopular stance, but it's what I believe in.
Lars, you said on CNET Radio "...I can barely use AOL...I need help" So get out there and SEE...pull off those blinders that AOL pulls over your eyes and passes itself off as the Internet! Get a second PC -- I know you can afford one -- and your local Linux Users Group will be happy to install an operating system that lets you see the Net as it really is. Go watch The Matrix if you haven't already....FREE YOUR MIND!
I don't know how to show you what's out there, but you just might find the Open Source community to be alot better "against the man" folks than you give us credit for. Anyways, screw it, my envelope with your CDs is on the desk and it will stay there until I see what you guys have to say in your
surely you jest, O lame one....
I run an ISP and Qwest is notorious for having a dicked up network. I was getting lots of spam from some node on their network a few months ago and emailed root@qwest.net postmaster@qwest.net and abuse@qwest.net It was about the same time that one of their sales reps was trying to get me to lease a T1 from them...
Guess what...their mail server sent back "no such mailbox" daemons on all 3 addies...that made up my mind about doing business with them more than some short-skirted marketroid ever could.
Qwest: "You may ride the light, but the batteries in the flashlight are dead"
Why are you guys moving from DN to Exodus? I've heard lots of good things about DN and was considering colo'ing a server with them...is this just some consolidation between Andover and VA, or is the reason for moving a performance issue?
./'ers who've hosted over at DN.
Any Editors' feedback welcome, as well as any
Cheers
This wouldn't work because users would quickly figure out which people had shared libraries of unblemished songs
Maybe it would...the l33t d00dz will always find a way to get over and what they want, but the clueless lame masses, which far outnumber the geeks on Napster, might be thwarted.
It might even be a popular way for fans to sample music sanctioned by artists...instead of a "this is a pirate copy" dubbed into it, the tracks could say "this is just a demo...you can get a full copy at...."
At any rate, MP3 was hip but not grossly pervasive a year ago when it was still on IRC and FTP servers....now that Napster's here, people with next to no Net savvy have more MP3'z in their laps in a shorter time than a determined, experienced user could get back in the day.
If you take the stance that the smarties will always get their warez no matter what, and then realize that the dumbasses are easy to shut off, it just might work.
And by the way, some proprietary digital format that limits my ability to copy my owned (not licensed) music for my personal use is not acceptable.
:P
Be careful here....some RIAA lawyer might get it up his arse to try and start including audio recordings under UCITA...then you and I *will* have to license, not buy, tunes and we won't be able to transfer the "licenses" to friends or speak out about music we think is shitty or defective
Sound too unrealistic? Consider that many audio CDs these days have some "software" component such as a video in MPEG/AVI/etc and many games have CD-playable audio soundtracks.
My money's on Garth Brooks to test this legal theory first and attempt to invoke UCITA..after all he's the bloke who wanted to ban used CD sales!
Anyone know what the feasibility of having a national referendum on the DMCA and the No Electronic Theft Acts would be?
And then having a campaign to vote any Senator or Congressman/woman out of office who voted for either of these instruments of evil corporate greed?
yes...the provider *should* respond to the demand....with a price plan for heavy users. Pricing by the byte is the only long term model that is economically rewarding to the ISP/Cableco and assures the customer quality-of-service.
hmmmmmmm the Ole "Slashdot Effect" again....
/. ?
Anybody wonder if we spun a story (or just commented on one) if we could affect a company's stock trading price? Has this ever happened from
What was it Andy Warhol said about everyone being famous for 15 minutes....?
Every time you use Napster you are taking money away from people that have put their time and effort into creating a piece of art which enriches the world.
:-) Maybe MP3 and open source will finally be the thing that topples the grotesque excess of superstardom and celebrity -- a scourge upon modern civilization.
Oh please! Gimme a goddamn break...you think I really feel sorry for Kid Rock and Van Halen as they sit in their Olympic pools? AOL-TW is just another corporate tyrant that needs to be reigned in like the railroad robber barons of the industrial revolution. (What should we call M$, AOL, et al? 'electron barons?'
And let's not forget that Gnutella allows all kinds of information to be spread across the Internet. Not only illegal MP3s, but other illegal and immoral content - pornography, terrorist manifestos, race-hate propaganda and anti-Christian bigotry.
....you forgot all the kool w4r3z we could trade with Gnutella, d00d!
Don't hold your breath for Blizzard to release Diablo II before fall, let alone a collector's edition.....Computer Gaming World's latest "pipeline" says Q3 of 2000 :(
Preach on brotha YoJ!
You forget that Microsoft owns some preferred stock in Apple....so they have a vested interest in seeing Apple succeed to some extent.
I don't see why the people at Nullsoft can't make SHOUTcast into a top-knotch streaming media competitor to these two commercial formats....heck it's almost there as it is. SHOUTcast sound quality blows Real Player and Media Player out of the water, plus Nullsoft has made significant inroads with the Linux/Open Source/BSD community with a de-facto file format--MP3, and support for Linux and BSD servers.
One thing I love about SHOUTcast versus Real Player is that your MP3 player (Winamp, etc.) doesn't shove a bunch of annoying advertising and AOL Instant Messenger into your face.
The new SHOUTcast server released a few weeks ago KICKS ASS! If anyone from Nullsoft is reading this, I think you guys only have 2 additional features to add and you'll be right there with the corporate giants:
1) Add support to Winamp/SHOUTcast for MPEG video
2) Enable SHOUTcast to stream static, prerecorded audio and video files.
AOL never *was* a dman ISP to begin with! Back in the day....a whole 4 years ago....the media called them an "online service" and called ISPs "ISPs."
Somewhere since then the popular media--and I lump ZD, CNET, and Wired in here because they contributed to the problem--started calling AOL an ISP too. In fact you commonly hear the marketroids now calling AOL "America's #1 ISP"
POPPYCOCK! AOL is nothing but a glorified proxy server with substandard interfaces to the Net. Its users are the lamest idiots on earth.