Well, I seem to recall such a gaming vest from some ten years ago... designed for Doom II, IIRC...
So the first thing I thought was, wait, isn't that old news? Even by/. standards, really... (or is it another featured article for the 10th anniversary?)
Anyway... I'd say there is a limited level of immersion people are generally comfortable with.
I don't see this being beaten up while playing a game catching on any more than I see the scents accompanying movie pictures catching on. Maybe you'd like the scent of apple pie, but when zombies start walking around, not only the odd teenage girl will walk out to throw up - most people will.
Too much immersion is simply no longer enjoyable, at least when that immersion includes negative stimuli. Someone above said he wouldn't wear the codpiece; I say, if they made the codpiece alone and paired it with a sex game, they might be on to something.
Though I've always wondered whether the day will come when we'll be able to pick fights over the internet, wearing certain clothes to feel the other guy's punches... cyber violence at its most literal...;)
Good thing I'm an engineer, the format of engineering is PDF.
I'm no engineer, but I send my files only as PDFs.
I'm well aware not many people use OO.o, so I take care to provide them with a universally readable document.
The fact that they can't edit it is an added bonus, too.
Though a funny thing happened a while ago... one of my college professors mailed me with a question on how to "open files created with a Linux office suite" (it's a faculty of humanities, and I'm one of the few Linux freaks there).
I offered her to convert the documents for her if there are not too many of them, and directed her to OO.o in any case, as both the likely originator of those files and a free office suite. I think she liked it.
Anyway, she or one of her gay activist friends mailed me and some other people once, asking us whether we could volunteer at organizing a queer festival, and then sent a.doc attachment. So I seized the moment to inform them about open formats, and that they are not the only minority 'round here. And would they please send such attachments as.rtf or.html in the future.
Activists are great if you want to get the message through; you just have to put it in the terms they will readily accept.
I would imagine the sheer volume of "best pr1ce c1ali5" would overwhelm them and probably burn any such details out of their minds in short order - remember they have to read each email very rapidly, can't pause the stream, and would have no facility to record such things. It's a good point though - some filtering may be possible, or you could just assume that the spammer would be humanely disposed of at the end of their sentence.
Well, of course.
They'd be so brain-dead by the end of their sentence that they could safely be disposed of in, say, the government.
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Don't mod the parent "off topic". It's possible that God is posting AC. Check the bottom of of the thread to see if the last post is AC as well.
Interestingly enough, the internal Slashdot ID for AC is 666.
Sorry I'm not as perfect as you. And personally, for a slashdot post, its not worth my time to go back and proofread anything. Especially when its just a post to a crook.
Yet another typical excuse of the illiterate.
Either you are literate or you are not. If you are, mistakes such as its vs. it's are something you just don't make.
Ha! Says the thief that isn't even out of college.
And thus called by a man probably twice my age who still hasn't learned how to read and write properly.
Fsck is typically pronounced F Suck. Notice, its not run together.
And what, language does not change?
Its ok though, I know the only exposure to UNIX that you've had is Linux, its not your fault you're young and stupid.
I grew up around Solaris.
Shows how much you know.
All this badgering over spelling and you've not written two things which aren't even words.
I haven't written two things which aren't even words.
Either you're talking nonsense, or you're using double negatives.
You may think five minutes is a big deal, but its really not. Your argument is crap.
Next time you have to crap really badly, and the only toilet is occupied, meditate upon your words. Five minutes is not really a big deal.
And that's only if you don't have to wait for 20 minutes until someone on the other end answers your call.
If that were the case, people would be switching in droves.
If only that were the case, your logic might be fine. There are other factors, however.
As it is though, MS sales are doing fine. People may not like Vista, but they're still buying XP, and not using RedHat. Besides, I'd rather take MS' "inconvenience" of activation of the nightmare that is RPM hell.
Because DLL hell is stuff of the myths, right.
But you don't have to deal with it, I've given you perfectly valid reasons you don't need MS' software. Hell, I'll give you another one; run VWD under WINE! Or use SharpDevelop or one of the other Linux based.Net IDEs. There are ways for you to be legal, you just choose not to.
When I needed it, VWD would not install under Wine. And it was required. So your arguments, although I wish they were true and that everything ran under Wine, are - as you'd so nicely put it - crap.
Its not? How much did it cost for your pirate copy of Windows?
Translated to dollars, I think the (blank) CD cost me a quarter or thereabouts.
Running a business has nothing to do with you, since you're not running once.
Nor twice.
But you said ALWAYS, in nice big caps as well... so no, not always.
It's so easy to be right when your opponent is overgeneralizing...
Your risk of being caught is low, so it is cheaper. You'd be surprised how many businesses run pirated software as well; its a big problem in China, for example.
If I were talking from the Chinese perspective, I would be talking different still; however, I'm not, so I'm not.
And I'm not surprised; it's a problem here as well, though not as much as it used to be.
I'm sure you could get away with shoplifting too, or murder. But does that mean that because you've gotten away with it, its ok?
Now, now, you're flattering me.
Though I do know a girl who routinely gets "free beers" in one store... can't really blame her, though; if she keeps walking out of the store with eight
I see you bolded typos, where-as you continue to to mispell words.
Ah, yes. Typos.
The eternal excuse of the illiterate.
I know it's hard to accept that a mere foreign "thief" is better educated in your own language than you are, but don't feel too bad; I could point out a dozen more such foreigners... oh, wait...
Its FUCKED, not fscked... unless running a linux filesystem repair tool has something to do with spelling.
It has to do something with pronunciation.
Please turn in your geek card, it has been revoked.
Anyway, I've had to call, um, once, ever. So yea, not really a big deal.
Well, I've had to call, um, nonce, never.
And you are among the lucky ones, mayhaps. Yes, there are millions more just like you, just like there are millions more people not born somewhere where they'd starve to death before turning 10.
Microsoft's anti-piracy measures primarily give lots of grief to their legal customers. I wonder how long before they turn towards something more Red Hat-like.
I don't expect it to be a big deal either, considering I bought the full retail version, which DOES allow me to move to another computer.
Good for you.
Not all of us can afford that.
Having to deal with Microsoft's de facto monopoly, we do what we can.
I never argued it was cheaper; its ALWAYS cheaper to steal. That a no brainer, wouldn't you agree?
No, I wouldn't.
It's not cheaper to steal - or infringe copyright, for that matter - if there is a substantial risk of getting caught. For instance, if you're running a business.
Now, I'd never run a business with a pirated copy of Windows; that would be plainly stupid. However, since nobody ever comes after home users, I read it as a tacit permission to use such a copy at home.
Yeah, I know companies don't want me to do that, but I don't want them to do many things either, but I'm out of luck. And so are they.
I've already addressed your activation argument.
Some hassle > no hassle. Period.
Its never happened to a vast majority,
But the minority that had it happen to them were quite inconvenienced, although they'd paid.
and did you consider that perhaps those users WERE pirating it, although they thought they got a genuine license?
Um... maybe because Microsoft admitted their fault?
How would you really know if some ISV was illegally putting the same key on every machine? You wouldn't.
Oh, great... so even if I pay up, I cannot be sure I got a legit copy.
Nice.
Do you see now why it's more convenient to pirate?
Ah, a mind reader now?
I don't need to be; by analysing an individual's behaviour, you can analyse their motives, intentions and tactics.
It's not much different with companies.
What, I should include comic books in my software as well? Obviously code has value, not everyone can write it.
Well, good code has value; every monkey can write bad code.
OK, perl code at least.
Oh, i see. You think all future products should be supported on all older products.
No, you don't see. I think a course covering the bare basics of an area shouldn't require a proprietary tool running on a proprietary system.
And trust me, the tools we'd used were overkill.
Hell, I can't even get a car to support my car after three years without paying.
Wow, you have your car supported by another car? How interesting.
OTOH, you do have a warranty, and nowhere in the contract does it say that this car is not fit for any specific purpose, including driving it on va
I don't change out my MB every two weeks, so no, its not a big deal.
Yes, you only get fscked in the ass once in a while, no big deal.
I still don't see how you fail to see how much more convenient it is to pirate Windows: it's cheaper, and it's the legitimate users who have to prove they're legitimate.
Nobody ever bothers the rest of us; when Windows Update tells several thousand legitimate Windows users they're pirates, we who use pirated versions are not annoyed at all. And you are the ones who'd paid money for it, too.
I seems to be they tolerated it because until recently there wasn't any good way to stop it. WinXP was the first OS that started to try to address the issue. Win2k was their first OS really designed to be on the internet.
No, they tolerated it because it helped them establish their monopolly.
Now that they are entrenched, they can start milking even more money.
Many more do not; many, like myself, don't even bother attempting to, because I'm afraid piracy wouldn't allow me to earn back as much as I put in.
That means you don't know how to offer something beyond the code.
So then plese tell me, what course exactly requires Windows on your home computer if you're not programming? You already said you use open office. I don't know why you'd wnat to be a windows network admin (and even then, I'm not sure how much homework you could get out of such a class).
Some idiotic obligatory course on web design or whatever required MS Visual Web Developer. Or whatever it's called.
Try installing that on something not WinXP SP2 or newer.
You've deprived someone of money they would have gotten if you didn't pirate it. I don't care how often you repeat that to me or yourself, to make yourself not feel guilty, that doesn't make it true.
Check your fscking laws.
MS did no such thing; there are always workarounds in software, and agreessive licensing is not criminal. Theft of the lines certainly is though. But your telco and MS are not the same. But you tell yourself whatever you need to to sleep at night.
Yeah, as if you'd know...
But it doesn't matter. You're almost MS free already! So just give up the games and get rid of Windows. Drop your course or pay for a license.
Now you've opened yourself for a whole barrage of anti-American flaming, but I'll let it pass.
Mainly because you aren't worth that much of my time.
Aww, starting to feel bad about your stealing? Perhaps you should learn spelling. I'm not goign to sugar coat anything for you, sorry if it hurts your feelings and I'm calling you out.. but your choices are your choices, and you'll have to live with them.
I'm sorry, what did I spell wrongly?
BTW, check your spelling and grammar before even attempting to comment on some foreigner's.
You, sir, are the very stereotype of an American asshole.
Ahh, a nation of criminals. I'll be sure never to visit.
Please, don't. We've already got too many tourists for our road capacity as it is.
And the morons working in tourism still haven't figured out what to offer those tourists.
How much would a license cost you? That's how much you've taken from MS (or any other software vendor who's products you pirate).
Ah, yes, fictive losses...
There you go! You are doing some damage; you're not giving them money, but you're doing it legally! Good for you! Too bad you won't do the same. (Oh, MAC isn't any better than MS, BTW.)
Oh, great; you don't even seem to know the difference between MAC and a Mac.
Other than that, you're not even making sense any more.
Not really. At one time trip to the store, and then I have the CD anytime I need after? No, its not true, its a very lame excuse.
Even though the pirated version is already patched and activated, and does not complain if you change your MB?
I could point to you and any COMPANY and say the same thing. Whats your point?
My point is that you do not understand why they tolerate piracy, especially home piracy.
And why they are developing anti-piracy measures only now.
If I were making software, it would be under the GPL or some similar licence. Copy it all you want.
Good luck feeding your family that way.
Many people do.
I, however, am not primarily a programmer; my career choice is a bit different.
Its a waste of time yet you claim its working?
No. Learn to read; I guess English is your first language.
Hmm.. interesting logic there. And I feel really sorry for those that stole something having it not work anymore.
Copyright infringement is not theft.
Moron.
Yes, you could, and many people do. Oh, and then there's also VOIP now too. But those are all relatively recent, which is why the telcos are a monopoly (and still are, because they own the lines, something YOU cannot change).
Well, in Croatia, the telco didn't own the lines until they took them. And though disputes are not over yet, they use them like they own them and cut other companies' lines, just like MS got rid of their competition.
And by this logic, I can't change MS's monopolly either.
Ahh, so that justifies your stealing. Lets be real here, others can compete, there were OSes long before DOS or Windows. This also isn't about what MS has done, its about you attempting to justify your stealing.
You are really the first example of a real asshole I've seen on/.
Learn how to fscking read.
You act as if a majority of home or business users pirate. That's simply not true. They pay for windows when they buy their computer with Windows already installed.
Not around here, they don't.
Unless they're so clueless that not even their friends have a clue.
So that means its ok to steal from them?
Oh, I wish I could steal from them. I'm merely infringing their copyright, though.
I wish I could do some real damage apart from switching people over to Linux or Mac.
Can you punch someone in the gut because they commited a crime once?
No, but if they're close enough, I can punch them in the face if they get on my nerves.
Ya you did. You're using software you didn't pay for.
Still you haven't proved that it's theft.
Guess what: not even lawyers have, so far. That's why it's got a different name.
Software which is BENFITING YOU, but which you have not given any compensation for.
Not much of a benefit, really. Much more pain, and I'm no masochist to actually not only enjoy and benefit from pain, but also pay for it.
With everything else that someone works to produce, you have the option to buy it or go without.
And, if you ask Sony, to buy it over and over and over again.
You stole a product, you're dishonest.
Pray tell, how do you even find the On switch on your PC?
Yup, and you even said you could have bought the student license.
Well, you win teh internetz.
What I understand is that a company is out the money they would have gotten if you were honest.
Oh, no, they wouldn't have.
Besides, the Windows EULA clearly states that the software is not fit for any specific purpose or whatever; how do I benefit fr
How often do you need the cd? Besides, you only need to buy the cd once, and you have it. Seems like a pretty lame excuse to me.
I'm sorry, can you deny it is more convenient? Lame as it may sound, it is true.
I'm sorry, are you actually suggesting that if everyone bought Windows, it would be cheaper?
Yes, quite possibly. If I was making software, and I noticed that about 10% was pirated, I would factor that in to the cost of my next release. Not to mention extra time spent coding any anti-piracy measures.
Well, that's why MS makes billions, and you, apparently, do not.
If I were making software, it would be under the GPL or some similar licence. Copy it all you want.
Besides, spending time coding anti-piracy measures is mostly wasting it, at least if you're mass-producing and mass-selling software. Or if you have an established de facto monopolly, so you can strong-arm former pirates into buying your product through Reduced Functionality Mode etc, which is what MS is doing now.
Anyway, anti-piracy measures waste your time, they will get cracked anyway, and anyone who wants to use your software will use it.
Besides, piracy increases your market share and your mindshare; home users will likely pirate your stuff, while business users likely will not. Home users use software they use at work, and vice versa.
Sorry, you can't compare a telco monopoly to Windows. There are alternatives, and you can switch right now. You even say games are the only reason you keep windows. Sounds to me then you should just give up games on the PC and use software you aquired ligitmately.
Well, I could have given up my phone, too, and only used mobile.
I see, so its ok to steal from people that have worked to earn more than you.
Microsoft's success is not all about work. Do words "unfair business practice" mean anything to you?
For your informatin though, not everyone cheats, not everyone is a criminal.
Microsoft, however, is a convicted abuser of their monopolly.
If you really believe that, perhaps its time to go back to absolutionish rule and let the government do whatever it wants; after all, everyone is a criminal anyway, so why not let them do anything they want.
Are you American, by any chance? From where I stand, it looks like you're doing just that.
I dunno, I tend to think that if one can rationalize stealing one item, they can rationalize stealing something else. You admit you steal, so I don't really have much reason to believe you only stole this one thing. That's the problem with someone that steals, its a dishonest act, and so your honesty gets called into question.
First of all, I do not steal. Copyright infringement is not theft. So sod off.
Secondly, if I were dishonest, I'd simply keep my big mouth shut and you'd be none the wiser.
And this has what to do exactly with copyright? Oh right, nothing.
It has to do with the law in these parts.
Again, does your college not provide a computer lab for which you can do your work? How about a student license for Windows? Those are typically MUCH cheaper than retail.
Did you even read my post?
Why not give up games on the PC? Can I steal a Wii because there's an exclusive game on it I want to play?
Copyright infringement is not theft.
I have not stolen a packed CD; I received a copy of a copy of a copy.
I have deprived no-one of their legal copy, I haven't stolen something someone else would have bought.
I know this difference may be a bit too subtle for someone clearly incapable of reading a whole post, but do try.
How would I even know what country you were in unti this post? At anyrate, it sounds a
Well theft is always cheaper. I'm not sure how its easier; you have no store you can go into and simply buy a copy of software?
Well, yes, I could.
But I'd have to actually go to a store, not just tell any of my friends I needed a Windows CD and get it, sometimes right away. Outside working hours, too.
So don't use if, if it doesn't meet your needs or you don't find value in it. You are damaging someone; your making it more expensive for people who do buy it, you're affecting a company which does employ people.
I'm sorry, are you actually suggesting that if everyone bought Windows, it would be cheaper?
I don't know about you, but I've lived my whole life being sucked dry by monopollies, including the German telco giant abusing the monopolly they'd bought - practically with our own money.
Giants get no sympathy from me, for they sure have no sympathy for me. I may not be any better than them, but I don't aspire to be, either. I live in the Balkans; here, morality is a distant second, or even fifth, to survival. No prisoner's dilemma here; everybody cheats, so you lose if you don't.
MS may have more than enough money to ensure it can give its employees raises, but its an exception. Apply your reasoning to other software, especially from smaller shops, and you certainly are affecting someone's livelihood.
Did I say I pirated any other software?
Even on Windows, I try to use as much F/OSS as possible.
The law would protect you if you were creating software (or any other copyrighted product for that matter). You're not being exploited by paying for things you used.
Well, you obviously know very little about the law in these parts. Let me illustrate this: the Wikipedia article about handshake is locked, primarily because people have tried - several hundred times, I believe - to insert a vital piece of trivia. Namely, one of our judges stated in his verdict that pushing a finger in someone's anus cannot be rape, but is rather more like a handshake. And despite many verdicts of this kind, he is still a judge.
You say the software isn't of value to you earlier, yet here you claim it does benefit you? Its not feasible to track down home pirates, sure, the RIAA is finding this out, but if you really don't like MS or its products, don't use them. It seems you're hurting alternatives more than anything else.
I don't use Windows for anything but the things there is no alternative for. Namely, one or two games that don't work under Wine and the few courses I cannot escape Windows.
Otherwise, I'm a Linux user, and I've put Linux on my father's and stepmother's computers, and I'm building a Linux machine for my grandfather, too.
So why not remove it now? Surely you have computer labs if your coursework requires work to be done on computers.
Well, you obviously know about the education here just as much as you know about the law.
My faculty has over 30 departments and one computer lab. I brought my old Linux machine and put it in one of the students' clubs.
I could actually get a licenced copy of Windows cheap, as there is bound to be some sort of agreement between my university and Microsoft - but I refuse to. As long as I'm forced to use Windows, as long as I have to buy a Mac to get a decent laptop without Windows, and especially as long as Microsoft keeps their unfair business practices, I'm opposed to buying their software under any terms.
My logic may be weird, but I don't expect you to understand it, really.
Anyway, one more thing: even if what I'm doing is so terribly wrong, I see absolutely no reason to agree to having a company audit my system in any way. The government may try to do so if they produce a warrant, should they suspect me of a crime; I'm loath to willingly surrender my system to some company for the same
Re:Congratulations Microsoft...
on
ZOMG New Zunes
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· Score: 1
Its ironic the lengths that MS haters will go to so that they can still have a copy of MS software.
What lengths? Getting a fully patched, updated and activated pirated copy is both cheaper and easier than getting it the legal way, at least in my country.
I find Windows barely good enough for some purposes - definitely not good enough to pay the listed price (which is relatively higher than people in the US have to pay, as my income is much lower). I know that my actions are considered wrong or immoral by some, if not most people; I really and truly do not care. I don't feel like I'm stealing or damaging someone in any way; I may be breaking the law, but frankly, I don't care. Since the law certainly isn't protecting me, I don't think exploitation should go one-way only.
Microsoft has had this tacit agreement with home pirates - while publicly speaking against software piracy, MS used it to their own advantage. They do their best to hunt down business pirates, but home users are too much of a bother, and too useful to stamp out. Thus I live in a strange symbiosis with Windows and Microsoft - I don't like them, they probably don't like me, but we each perceive some benefits of tolerating each other's existence.
For what it's worth, I consider myself done with Windows. I still need it because some of my classes are Windows-only, but that's about it. I'm not even playing games as much as I used to; I no longer have the time. And so the symbiosis will end...
Anyway, one more thing: even if what I'm doing is so terribly wrong, I see absolutely no reason to agree to having a company audit my system in any way. The government may try to do so if they produce a warrant, should they suspect me of a crime; I'm loath to willingly surrender my system to some company for the same purpose.
I guess this is only moderately useful to businesses, as they may get hurt if they're caught.
I, however, don't see a single reason to "upgrade" to a legal copy: I, unlike own^H^H^Hlicencees of legal copies, am not annoyed by WGA, I will never have to deal with their tech support, my Windows installation will never enter Reduced Functionality Mode (RFM? Isn't that kind of like RTFM?)... I only use Windows to play games only available on Windows.
And I see no reason to ever allow Microsoft to audit anything on my computer. Because it's still my computer.
Slashdot Mirror
That's right.
This is more like... GPS Torrent?
He snorted his own uncle, or father, whatever... that's because the guy was already ashes.
Now, the cockroach's uncle, OTOH...
Well, I seem to recall such a gaming vest from some ten years ago... designed for Doom II, IIRC...
So the first thing I thought was, wait, isn't that old news? Even by /. standards, really... (or is it another featured article for the 10th anniversary?)
Anyway... I'd say there is a limited level of immersion people are generally comfortable with.
I don't see this being beaten up while playing a game catching on any more than I see the scents accompanying movie pictures catching on. Maybe you'd like the scent of apple pie, but when zombies start walking around, not only the odd teenage girl will walk out to throw up - most people will.
Too much immersion is simply no longer enjoyable, at least when that immersion includes negative stimuli. Someone above said he wouldn't wear the codpiece; I say, if they made the codpiece alone and paired it with a sex game, they might be on to something.
Though I've always wondered whether the day will come when we'll be able to pick fights over the internet, wearing certain clothes to feel the other guy's punches... cyber violence at its most literal... ;)
In the words of Robin Williams: "I smoked your uncle, did you know that? Fuckin' crazy..."
And if the Goatse guy comes to see you, you actually don't have to do anything.
...
Goatse guy coming to see you... with his business end... yes, I knew there was a reason I didn't go to study medicine.
I'm no engineer, but I send my files only as PDFs.
I'm well aware not many people use OO.o, so I take care to provide them with a universally readable document.
The fact that they can't edit it is an added bonus, too.
Though a funny thing happened a while ago... one of my college professors mailed me with a question on how to "open files created with a Linux office suite" (it's a faculty of humanities, and I'm one of the few Linux freaks there).
I offered her to convert the documents for her if there are not too many of them, and directed her to OO.o in any case, as both the likely originator of those files and a free office suite. I think she liked it.
Anyway, she or one of her gay activist friends mailed me and some other people once, asking us whether we could volunteer at organizing a queer festival, and then sent a .doc attachment. So I seized the moment to inform them about open formats, and that they are not the only minority 'round here. And would they please send such attachments as .rtf or .html in the future.
Activists are great if you want to get the message through; you just have to put it in the terms they will readily accept.
Well, of course.
They'd be so brain-dead by the end of their sentence that they could safely be disposed of in, say, the government.
Ah.
So it will become more like Arabic and Hebrew.
To cut the long story short: I don't think you'd like to fuck him.
So just wave and smile...
Interestingly enough, the internal Slashdot ID for AC is 666.
Hmmm... you don't suppose...
What, you never hit the wrong key while typing?
Sure did. But not as... consistently as you.
Sorry I'm not as perfect as you. And personally, for a slashdot post, its not worth my time to go back and proofread anything. Especially when its just a post to a crook.
Yet another typical excuse of the illiterate.
Either you are literate or you are not. If you are, mistakes such as its vs. it's are something you just don't make.
Ha! Says the thief that isn't even out of college.
And thus called by a man probably twice my age who still hasn't learned how to read and write properly.
Fsck is typically pronounced F Suck. Notice, its not run together.
And what, language does not change?
Its ok though, I know the only exposure to UNIX that you've had is Linux, its not your fault you're young and stupid.
I grew up around Solaris.
Shows how much you know.
All this badgering over spelling and you've not written two things which aren't even words.
I haven't written two things which aren't even words.
Either you're talking nonsense, or you're using double negatives.
You may think five minutes is a big deal, but its really not. Your argument is crap.
Next time you have to crap really badly, and the only toilet is occupied, meditate upon your words. Five minutes is not really a big deal.
And that's only if you don't have to wait for 20 minutes until someone on the other end answers your call.
If that were the case, people would be switching in droves.
If only that were the case, your logic might be fine. There are other factors, however.
As it is though, MS sales are doing fine. People may not like Vista, but they're still buying XP, and not using RedHat. Besides, I'd rather take MS' "inconvenience" of activation of the nightmare that is RPM hell.
Because DLL hell is stuff of the myths, right.
But you don't have to deal with it, I've given you perfectly valid reasons you don't need MS' software. Hell, I'll give you another one; run VWD under WINE! Or use SharpDevelop or one of the other Linux based .Net IDEs. There are ways for you to be legal, you just choose not to.
When I needed it, VWD would not install under Wine. And it was required. So your arguments, although I wish they were true and that everything ran under Wine, are - as you'd so nicely put it - crap.
Its not? How much did it cost for your pirate copy of Windows?
Translated to dollars, I think the (blank) CD cost me a quarter or thereabouts.
Running a business has nothing to do with you, since you're not running once.
Nor twice.
But you said ALWAYS, in nice big caps as well... so no, not always.
It's so easy to be right when your opponent is overgeneralizing...
Your risk of being caught is low, so it is cheaper. You'd be surprised how many businesses run pirated software as well; its a big problem in China, for example.
If I were talking from the Chinese perspective, I would be talking different still; however, I'm not, so I'm not.
And I'm not surprised; it's a problem here as well, though not as much as it used to be.
I'm sure you could get away with shoplifting too, or murder. But does that mean that because you've gotten away with it, its ok?
Now, now, you're flattering me.
Though I do know a girl who routinely gets "free beers" in one store... can't really blame her, though; if she keeps walking out of the store with eight
Ah, Mr. AC... don't I know you from somewhere?
Replying to myself since I cannot simply append to the previous post...
Flag burning, you say... well, what a coincidence, then, that the Windows logo is a cross between a flag and a window...
I'm all for both, especially after the still-ongoing flamewar with another Slashdotter.
I see you bolded typos, where-as you continue to to mispell words.
Ah, yes. Typos.
The eternal excuse of the illiterate.
I know it's hard to accept that a mere foreign "thief" is better educated in your own language than you are, but don't feel too bad; I could point out a dozen more such foreigners... oh, wait...
Its FUCKED, not fscked... unless running a linux filesystem repair tool has something to do with spelling.
It has to do something with pronunciation.
Please turn in your geek card, it has been revoked.
Anyway, I've had to call, um, once, ever. So yea, not really a big deal.
Well, I've had to call, um, nonce, never.
And you are among the lucky ones, mayhaps. Yes, there are millions more just like you, just like there are millions more people not born somewhere where they'd starve to death before turning 10.
Microsoft's anti-piracy measures primarily give lots of grief to their legal customers. I wonder how long before they turn towards something more Red Hat-like.
I don't expect it to be a big deal either, considering I bought the full retail version, which DOES allow me to move to another computer.
Good for you.
Not all of us can afford that.
Having to deal with Microsoft's de facto monopoly, we do what we can.
I never argued it was cheaper; its ALWAYS cheaper to steal. That a no brainer, wouldn't you agree?
No, I wouldn't.
It's not cheaper to steal - or infringe copyright, for that matter - if there is a substantial risk of getting caught. For instance, if you're running a business.
Now, I'd never run a business with a pirated copy of Windows; that would be plainly stupid. However, since nobody ever comes after home users, I read it as a tacit permission to use such a copy at home.
Yeah, I know companies don't want me to do that, but I don't want them to do many things either, but I'm out of luck. And so are they.
I've already addressed your activation argument.
Some hassle > no hassle. Period.
Its never happened to a vast majority,
But the minority that had it happen to them were quite inconvenienced, although they'd paid.
and did you consider that perhaps those users WERE pirating it, although they thought they got a genuine license?
Um... maybe because Microsoft admitted their fault?
How would you really know if some ISV was illegally putting the same key on every machine? You wouldn't.
Oh, great... so even if I pay up, I cannot be sure I got a legit copy.
Nice.
Do you see now why it's more convenient to pirate?
Ah, a mind reader now?
I don't need to be; by analysing an individual's behaviour, you can analyse their motives, intentions and tactics.
It's not much different with companies.
What, I should include comic books in my software as well? Obviously code has value, not everyone can write it.
Well, good code has value; every monkey can write bad code.
OK, perl code at least.
Oh, i see. You think all future products should be supported on all older products.
No, you don't see. I think a course covering the bare basics of an area shouldn't require a proprietary tool running on a proprietary system.
And trust me, the tools we'd used were overkill.
Hell, I can't even get a car to support my car after three years without paying.
Wow, you have your car supported by another car? How interesting.
OTOH, you do have a warranty, and nowhere in the contract does it say that this car is not fit for any specific purpose, including driving it on va
I don't change out my MB every two weeks, so no, its not a big deal.
Yes, you only get fscked in the ass once in a while, no big deal.
I still don't see how you fail to see how much more convenient it is to pirate Windows: it's cheaper, and it's the legitimate users who have to prove they're legitimate.
Nobody ever bothers the rest of us; when Windows Update tells several thousand legitimate Windows users they're pirates, we who use pirated versions are not annoyed at all. And you are the ones who'd paid money for it, too.
I seems to be they tolerated it because until recently there wasn't any good way to stop it. WinXP was the first OS that started to try to address the issue. Win2k was their first OS really designed to be on the internet.
No, they tolerated it because it helped them establish their monopolly.
Now that they are entrenched, they can start milking even more money.
Many more do not; many, like myself, don't even bother attempting to, because I'm afraid piracy wouldn't allow me to earn back as much as I put in.
That means you don't know how to offer something beyond the code.
So then plese tell me, what course exactly requires Windows on your home computer if you're not programming? You already said you use open office. I don't know why you'd wnat to be a windows network admin (and even then, I'm not sure how much homework you could get out of such a class).
Some idiotic obligatory course on web design or whatever required MS Visual Web Developer. Or whatever it's called.
Try installing that on something not WinXP SP2 or newer.
You've deprived someone of money they would have gotten if you didn't pirate it. I don't care how often you repeat that to me or yourself, to make yourself not feel guilty, that doesn't make it true.
Check your fscking laws.
MS did no such thing; there are always workarounds in software, and agreessive licensing is not criminal. Theft of the lines certainly is though. But your telco and MS are not the same. But you tell yourself whatever you need to to sleep at night.
Yeah, as if you'd know...
But it doesn't matter. You're almost MS free already! So just give up the games and get rid of Windows. Drop your course or pay for a license.
Now you've opened yourself for a whole barrage of anti-American flaming, but I'll let it pass.
Mainly because you aren't worth that much of my time.
Aww, starting to feel bad about your stealing? Perhaps you should learn spelling. I'm not goign to sugar coat anything for you, sorry if it hurts your feelings and I'm calling you out.. but your choices are your choices, and you'll have to live with them.
I'm sorry, what did I spell wrongly?
BTW, check your spelling and grammar before even attempting to comment on some foreigner's.
You, sir, are the very stereotype of an American asshole.
Ahh, a nation of criminals. I'll be sure never to visit.
Please, don't. We've already got too many tourists for our road capacity as it is.
And the morons working in tourism still haven't figured out what to offer those tourists.
How much would a license cost you? That's how much you've taken from MS (or any other software vendor who's products you pirate).
Ah, yes, fictive losses...
There you go! You are doing some damage; you're not giving them money, but you're doing it legally! Good for you! Too bad you won't do the same. (Oh, MAC isn't any better than MS, BTW.)
Oh, great; you don't even seem to know the difference between MAC and a Mac.
Other than that, you're not even making sense any more.
An
Not really. At one time trip to the store, and then I have the CD anytime I need after? No, its not true, its a very lame excuse.
Even though the pirated version is already patched and activated, and does not complain if you change your MB?
I could point to you and any COMPANY and say the same thing. Whats your point?
My point is that you do not understand why they tolerate piracy, especially home piracy.
And why they are developing anti-piracy measures only now.
If I were making software, it would be under the GPL or some similar licence. Copy it all you want.
Good luck feeding your family that way.
Many people do.
I, however, am not primarily a programmer; my career choice is a bit different.
Its a waste of time yet you claim its working?
No. Learn to read; I guess English is your first language.
Hmm.. interesting logic there. And I feel really sorry for those that stole something having it not work anymore.
Copyright infringement is not theft.
Moron.
Yes, you could, and many people do. Oh, and then there's also VOIP now too. But those are all relatively recent, which is why the telcos are a monopoly (and still are, because they own the lines, something YOU cannot change).
Well, in Croatia, the telco didn't own the lines until they took them. And though disputes are not over yet, they use them like they own them and cut other companies' lines, just like MS got rid of their competition.
And by this logic, I can't change MS's monopolly either.
Ahh, so that justifies your stealing. Lets be real here, others can compete, there were OSes long before DOS or Windows. This also isn't about what MS has done, its about you attempting to justify your stealing.
You are really the first example of a real asshole I've seen on /.
Learn how to fscking read.
You act as if a majority of home or business users pirate. That's simply not true. They pay for windows when they buy their computer with Windows already installed.
Not around here, they don't.
Unless they're so clueless that not even their friends have a clue.
So that means its ok to steal from them?
Oh, I wish I could steal from them. I'm merely infringing their copyright, though.
I wish I could do some real damage apart from switching people over to Linux or Mac.
Can you punch someone in the gut because they commited a crime once?
No, but if they're close enough, I can punch them in the face if they get on my nerves.
Ya you did. You're using software you didn't pay for.
Still you haven't proved that it's theft.
Guess what: not even lawyers have, so far. That's why it's got a different name.
Software which is BENFITING YOU, but which you have not given any compensation for.
Not much of a benefit, really. Much more pain, and I'm no masochist to actually not only enjoy and benefit from pain, but also pay for it.
With everything else that someone works to produce, you have the option to buy it or go without.
And, if you ask Sony, to buy it over and over and over again.
You stole a product, you're dishonest.
Pray tell, how do you even find the On switch on your PC?
Yup, and you even said you could have bought the student license.
Well, you win teh internetz.
What I understand is that a company is out the money they would have gotten if you were honest.
Oh, no, they wouldn't have.
Besides, the Windows EULA clearly states that the software is not fit for any specific purpose or whatever; how do I benefit fr
How often do you need the cd? Besides, you only need to buy the cd once, and you have it. Seems like a pretty lame excuse to me.
I'm sorry, can you deny it is more convenient? Lame as it may sound, it is true.
I'm sorry, are you actually suggesting that if everyone bought Windows, it would be cheaper?
Yes, quite possibly. If I was making software, and I noticed that about 10% was pirated, I would factor that in to the cost of my next release. Not to mention extra time spent coding any anti-piracy measures.
Well, that's why MS makes billions, and you, apparently, do not.
If I were making software, it would be under the GPL or some similar licence. Copy it all you want.
Besides, spending time coding anti-piracy measures is mostly wasting it, at least if you're mass-producing and mass-selling software. Or if you have an established de facto monopolly, so you can strong-arm former pirates into buying your product through Reduced Functionality Mode etc, which is what MS is doing now.
Anyway, anti-piracy measures waste your time, they will get cracked anyway, and anyone who wants to use your software will use it.
Besides, piracy increases your market share and your mindshare; home users will likely pirate your stuff, while business users likely will not. Home users use software they use at work, and vice versa.
Sorry, you can't compare a telco monopoly to Windows. There are alternatives, and you can switch right now. You even say games are the only reason you keep windows. Sounds to me then you should just give up games on the PC and use software you aquired ligitmately.
Well, I could have given up my phone, too, and only used mobile.
I see, so its ok to steal from people that have worked to earn more than you.
Microsoft's success is not all about work. Do words "unfair business practice" mean anything to you?
For your informatin though, not everyone cheats, not everyone is a criminal.
Microsoft, however, is a convicted abuser of their monopolly.
If you really believe that, perhaps its time to go back to absolutionish rule and let the government do whatever it wants; after all, everyone is a criminal anyway, so why not let them do anything they want.
Are you American, by any chance? From where I stand, it looks like you're doing just that.
I dunno, I tend to think that if one can rationalize stealing one item, they can rationalize stealing something else. You admit you steal, so I don't really have much reason to believe you only stole this one thing. That's the problem with someone that steals, its a dishonest act, and so your honesty gets called into question.
First of all, I do not steal. Copyright infringement is not theft. So sod off.
Secondly, if I were dishonest, I'd simply keep my big mouth shut and you'd be none the wiser.
And this has what to do exactly with copyright? Oh right, nothing.
It has to do with the law in these parts.
Again, does your college not provide a computer lab for which you can do your work? How about a student license for Windows? Those are typically MUCH cheaper than retail.
Did you even read my post?
Why not give up games on the PC? Can I steal a Wii because there's an exclusive game on it I want to play?
Copyright infringement is not theft.
I have not stolen a packed CD; I received a copy of a copy of a copy.
I have deprived no-one of their legal copy, I haven't stolen something someone else would have bought.
I know this difference may be a bit too subtle for someone clearly incapable of reading a whole post, but do try.
How would I even know what country you were in unti this post? At anyrate, it sounds a
Unfortunately a little common sense goes a long way and most people have even less (common sense) than that.
As I read the summary, the very same thing crossed my mind.
Well, duh, I don't run any software to detect phishing attempts for me. Am I any more at risk?
Of course I'm not; I can very well detect them on my own.
Besides, what would running such software prove? Would I somehow be miraculously unable to be terminally stupid?
Well theft is always cheaper. I'm not sure how its easier; you have no store you can go into and simply buy a copy of software?
Well, yes, I could.
But I'd have to actually go to a store, not just tell any of my friends I needed a Windows CD and get it, sometimes right away. Outside working hours, too.
So don't use if, if it doesn't meet your needs or you don't find value in it. You are damaging someone; your making it more expensive for people who do buy it, you're affecting a company which does employ people.
I'm sorry, are you actually suggesting that if everyone bought Windows, it would be cheaper?
I don't know about you, but I've lived my whole life being sucked dry by monopollies, including the German telco giant abusing the monopolly they'd bought - practically with our own money.
Giants get no sympathy from me, for they sure have no sympathy for me. I may not be any better than them, but I don't aspire to be, either. I live in the Balkans; here, morality is a distant second, or even fifth, to survival. No prisoner's dilemma here; everybody cheats, so you lose if you don't.
MS may have more than enough money to ensure it can give its employees raises, but its an exception. Apply your reasoning to other software, especially from smaller shops, and you certainly are affecting someone's livelihood.
Did I say I pirated any other software?
Even on Windows, I try to use as much F/OSS as possible.
The law would protect you if you were creating software (or any other copyrighted product for that matter). You're not being exploited by paying for things you used.
Well, you obviously know very little about the law in these parts. Let me illustrate this: the Wikipedia article about handshake is locked, primarily because people have tried - several hundred times, I believe - to insert a vital piece of trivia. Namely, one of our judges stated in his verdict that pushing a finger in someone's anus cannot be rape, but is rather more like a handshake. And despite many verdicts of this kind, he is still a judge.
You say the software isn't of value to you earlier, yet here you claim it does benefit you? Its not feasible to track down home pirates, sure, the RIAA is finding this out, but if you really don't like MS or its products, don't use them. It seems you're hurting alternatives more than anything else.
I don't use Windows for anything but the things there is no alternative for. Namely, one or two games that don't work under Wine and the few courses I cannot escape Windows.
Otherwise, I'm a Linux user, and I've put Linux on my father's and stepmother's computers, and I'm building a Linux machine for my grandfather, too.
So why not remove it now? Surely you have computer labs if your coursework requires work to be done on computers.
Well, you obviously know about the education here just as much as you know about the law.
My faculty has over 30 departments and one computer lab. I brought my old Linux machine and put it in one of the students' clubs.
I could actually get a licenced copy of Windows cheap, as there is bound to be some sort of agreement between my university and Microsoft - but I refuse to. As long as I'm forced to use Windows, as long as I have to buy a Mac to get a decent laptop without Windows, and especially as long as Microsoft keeps their unfair business practices, I'm opposed to buying their software under any terms.
My logic may be weird, but I don't expect you to understand it, really.
Anyway, one more thing: even if what I'm doing is so terribly wrong, I see absolutely no reason to agree to having a company audit my system in any way. The government may try to do so if they produce a warrant, should they suspect me of a crime; I'm loath to willingly surrender my system to some company for the same
I stand corrected.
Well, duh. Every little girl wants a pony, but how many have said "Daddy, daddy, I want a Zune!"?
So, basically, it's just like any other Microsoft product compared to an equivalent Apple product.
What lengths? Getting a fully patched, updated and activated pirated copy is both cheaper and easier than getting it the legal way, at least in my country.
I find Windows barely good enough for some purposes - definitely not good enough to pay the listed price (which is relatively higher than people in the US have to pay, as my income is much lower). I know that my actions are considered wrong or immoral by some, if not most people; I really and truly do not care. I don't feel like I'm stealing or damaging someone in any way; I may be breaking the law, but frankly, I don't care. Since the law certainly isn't protecting me, I don't think exploitation should go one-way only.
Microsoft has had this tacit agreement with home pirates - while publicly speaking against software piracy, MS used it to their own advantage. They do their best to hunt down business pirates, but home users are too much of a bother, and too useful to stamp out. Thus I live in a strange symbiosis with Windows and Microsoft - I don't like them, they probably don't like me, but we each perceive some benefits of tolerating each other's existence.
For what it's worth, I consider myself done with Windows. I still need it because some of my classes are Windows-only, but that's about it. I'm not even playing games as much as I used to; I no longer have the time. And so the symbiosis will end...
Anyway, one more thing: even if what I'm doing is so terribly wrong, I see absolutely no reason to agree to having a company audit my system in any way. The government may try to do so if they produce a warrant, should they suspect me of a crime; I'm loath to willingly surrender my system to some company for the same purpose.
I guess this is only moderately useful to businesses, as they may get hurt if they're caught.
I, however, don't see a single reason to "upgrade" to a legal copy: I, unlike own^H^H^Hlicencees of legal copies, am not annoyed by WGA, I will never have to deal with their tech support, my Windows installation will never enter Reduced Functionality Mode (RFM? Isn't that kind of like RTFM?)... I only use Windows to play games only available on Windows.
And I see no reason to ever allow Microsoft to audit anything on my computer. Because it's still my computer.