Microsoft Marketing to OS Pirates, Just Agree to Audits!

Stony Stevenson writes "In the latest sign that Microsoft expects to support its Windows XP operating system for the foreseeable future, the company has introduced a new licensing program designed to let users of fake or pirated copies of the business version of the OS upgrade to fully licensed copies. To qualify, users of illegitimate versions of Windows XP Pro must pledge to use only genuine Microsoft software going forward and agree to have their software infrastructure audited. Resellers who push the Get Genuine Windows Agreement to customers will get a cut of any new license fees they generate, Microsoft said."

Comments

Yeah, right

[sprag]

If someone is pirating windows, why would they self identify and then agree to an eternal audit of their infrastructure?

Re:Yeah, right

[SnoopJeDi]

Well, a significant portion of these "pirates" are supposedly people/groups that have no idea that they are breaking any rules. So, I would imagine those people would be the target, not Captain CheapAss (Yarrrgggh).

Re:Yeah, right

[deniable]

It's called getting caught.

You get a choice of pay up or go to court, unless their looking to make an example of someone. They've been doing it for a fairly long time here.

Re:Yeah, right

[Iphtashu Fitz]

Well, a significant portion of these "pirates" are supposedly people/groups that have no idea that they are breaking any rules.

If they have no idea that they're running a pirated copy of Windows then how would they know they should consider this offer by MS?

Re:Yeah, right

[bogaboga]

To qualify, users of illegitimate versions of Windows XP Pro must pledge to use only genuine Microsoft software going forward and agree to have their software infrastructure audited.

Suppose I were a pirate; what would I get in this? After all, I can still get my copy of Windows software "free".

Microsoft should know better: There is no difference between a pirated copy of its software and a genuine one. They work the same, have the same bugs, crash the same way etc etc. I do not see any incentive to agreeing to these audits at all.

By the way, I do not see any indemnification from a law suite by Microsoft. Or did I miss something?

Re:Yeah, right

[jimstapleton]

1) Some people who weren't certain, and might wonder (i.e. wow, this was rather cheap when I ordered from that seedy web site I got an email from...) might check and agree
2) Some people who later found their copy wasn't legit, after the fact, but didn't have the money to do anything about it, might go for it.

Re:Yeah, right

[apdyck]

I feel that it needs to be pointed out that this program targets business customers. Microsoft isn't going to waste their resources on the average home user who is running a pirated copy of XP Pro (probably after a system wipe to get rid of Vista or XP Home!). This does make some amount of sense in that context. The majority of Microsoft's revenue comes from OEM installations (which we usually don't get much of a choice in anyhow), and from business customers who order thousands of licenses. As a former Microsoft OEM vendor, I have seen the evolution of their policies from the early days of Windows 95 and upwards, and let me tell you - this makes more sense than their requirement for Office 97 SBE OEM to only be installed on an OEM installation of Windows 95 or 98!

With regards to the audits, there are many software solutions for audits of software, and Microsoft keeps a database of all registered licenses (I've seen this database, a friend of mine was a manager at a call center handling Microsoft activations calls), so it would be easy for Microsoft to run an audit of installed software and compare it with their database of registered software. If they notice any discrepancies, they could then conduct further investigation into the cause. Granted, it would be a lot of work on their part to conduct a more in-depth audit, but it would, invariably, result in revenue for Microsoft, so it would be worth-while for them.

Re:Yeah, right

[cp.tar]

I guess this is only moderately useful to businesses, as they may get hurt if they're caught.

I, however, don't see a single reason to "upgrade" to a legal copy: I, unlike own^H^H^Hlicencees of legal copies, am not annoyed by WGA, I will never have to deal with their tech support, my Windows installation will never enter Reduced Functionality Mode (RFM? Isn't that kind of like RTFM?)... I only use Windows to play games only available on Windows.

And I see no reason to ever allow Microsoft to audit anything on my computer. Because it's still my computer.

Re:Yeah, right

[Bert64]

Actually there are differences, very important ones.

The pirated copy is *BETTER*.

You don't have to deal with WGA
You don't have the hassle of re-activating it if you upgrade/change your hardware
You often don't have the hassle of entering and storing (without losing) the license key when you reinstall
And the obvious - that it's cheaper

Re:Yeah, right

[Frosty Piss]

Suppose I were a pirate...

They are not targeting YOU. Keep on running your unsupported pirate copy of XP with unknown security backdoors. Your choice.

But there are actual real businesses, mostly outside the US but certainly some here as well, that are starting to understand that there are liabilities to running unpatched and unsupportable pirate copies of XP. They should and probably will jump at this.

Obligatory Slashdot Disclaimer: Of course they should be running GNU/Linux, nectar of the Gods, panacea to everything...

Re:Yeah, right

[plague3106]

So you don't think you should have to pay for the product that someone else produced? I assume then you didn't pay for the games you play either. Ya, its your computer, it doesn't give you the right to rip of the work of other people. If you don't want to pay for the OS, then don't use it.

Its ironic the lengths that MS haters will go to so that they can still have a copy of MS software.

Re:Yeah, right

[ElleyKitten]

If someone is pirating windows, why would they self identify and then agree to an eternal audit of their infrastructure? Prior employees at my company pirated software instead of get it legitly like management wants. I'm sure they'd benefit from a program like this, and might even thank me for telling them about it instead of yelling at me for telling them there's pirated software on their computers, but I hate my job and do not care. Which is why I'm browsing Slashdot and Monster and calling it "working".

Re:Yeah, right

[Abreu]

Lots of people (at least here in the semi-third world) commonly buy computers from small local stores...
Many times these are generic beige boxes with the store logo (or worse, an Acer/HP/Gateway) logo pasted on them.

These computers are almost always sold "with Windows XP preinstalled", which is obviously pirated. Some will even sell you a windows license separately if requested.

I assure you lots of people don't know they are pirates... they will even show you the invoices for their store-bought computers.

Re:Yeah, right

[WasteOfAmmo]

I was also going to point out the target being business customers but thanks for beating me to it with a better posting.

The other point to make here addresses the comments regarding who would want to change from illegal to legal software. I have ran into several small businesses which have pirated software installed in the office machines. In some cases everyone was well aware of the situation and in others it started out innocently enough and simply grew from there until no one really knew how bad the situation was. A few of these businesses, when informed of the current situation, wanted to straighten the mess out and work towards being completely legit. Others decided outright that they could not afford it and would deal with it later. A few feel their small enough where it does not matter (mom and pop shops usually).

The bottom line is that there are businesses out there that may have found themselves in a situation they wish to correct. How they got there is widely varied but they are now big enough, have enough money, changed management, or have simply grown some morals, that they want to no longer take chances and make sure they are running legal software. Not to mention, sometimes there is a benefit to running legit software: support, upgrades, etc.

This strategy may not reduce the overall number of pirated copies by any significant percentage but it is a great move my MS:

• MS has a more "friendly" face
• MS customer base grows which means more returns in the future
• MS doesn't piss off potential customers by trying to strong arm anyone

Not to mention that if done right, the audit can turn up more business for MS or its affiliates ("your currently legit with our software but we found this situation that you should consider addressing. Here is our solution or our partners solution for only $$$$").

-- Check out a great indi-band's music and help a girl win a guitar: Art Of Dying

Re:Yeah, right

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's take the OP's fallacious justification a bit further:

Microsoft isn't losing any money because he's using some pirated copy of Windows. He would have never bought their software at the price they wanted/with restrictions on his liberties in place/other reason to not use it. So they're not really losing a sale, since he was never going to buy it anyway.

Re:Yeah, right

[kc2keo]

I agree with you... I only use Windows to play games that do not run in Wine/Cedega well or at all or to work on a gaming mod/map. The rest of my every day use I use Ubuntu Linux Feisty Fawn. I have grown to love Debian and Ubuntu. Used to use Gentoo and Mandrake but Gentoo takes to much of my time and Mandrake sucks. Yes I know Mandrake is Mandriva now and I do not care to use it or try it as Mandrake left a bad taste in my mouth.

Re:Yeah, right

[ubrgeek]

> You don't have the hassle of re-activating it if > you upgrade/change your hardware

Funny you mention this. I have a copy of XP that I've installed on different machines which I've then wiped. I had it on a PC and had to reinstall it (yeah, I know: Image it first) and then said to hell with the box and installed it via Parallels. When I had to reinstall Parallels and tried to activate XP, a screen popped up which informed me that, according to MS' records, I had exceeded the number of times the product could be activate (I don't know if that means needing to reinstall on the same box or if you're allowed to install it on X number of other computers you use at home.) Regardless, I called the number provided on the screen and informed the operator that I wasn't using it on any other machines but the one I was interested in installing it on. She asked me to confirm that I was only going to use it on the one machine and then she gave me a new activation number. It wasn't the standard 16-digit one (or however long it is) but more like 16 characters. I thought it was an interesting way of dealing with it, and quiet different than the stories I had heard about a single hardware upgrade nullifying you ability to use the OS you had already bought.

Re:Yeah, right

[sqrt(2)]

What world do you live in? The "unpatched and unsupportable" pirate copies of XP are, in fact, bit-for-bit identical to the legit retail and corporate versions. They update just like the real thing, they work just like the real thing, they ARE the real thing. Everything except for the license/CD key is genuine. The difference between a "pirate" copy and a real one is your authorization to use it, the license, not the software itself.

Re:Yeah, right

[Opportunist]

Nobody claimed it's nullified (in XP, not Vista). Just that you have to go through the Spanish Inquisition as you've noticed.

Re:Yeah, right

[Macthorpe]

Wow, that's akin to the Spanish Inquisition? So I assume, historically, it went:

Inquisitor: "ARE YOU, OR ARE YOU NOT, A CATHOLIC!?"
Prisoner: "Yep."
Inquisitor: "Oh, okay. You can go then."

Re:Yeah, right

[cp.tar]

Its ironic the lengths that MS haters will go to so that they can still have a copy of MS software.

What lengths? Getting a fully patched, updated and activated pirated copy is both cheaper and easier than getting it the legal way, at least in my country.

I find Windows barely good enough for some purposes - definitely not good enough to pay the listed price (which is relatively higher than people in the US have to pay, as my income is much lower). I know that my actions are considered wrong or immoral by some, if not most people; I really and truly do not care. I don't feel like I'm stealing or damaging someone in any way; I may be breaking the law, but frankly, I don't care. Since the law certainly isn't protecting me, I don't think exploitation should go one-way only.

Microsoft has had this tacit agreement with home pirates - while publicly speaking against software piracy, MS used it to their own advantage. They do their best to hunt down business pirates, but home users are too much of a bother, and too useful to stamp out. Thus I live in a strange symbiosis with Windows and Microsoft - I don't like them, they probably don't like me, but we each perceive some benefits of tolerating each other's existence.

For what it's worth, I consider myself done with Windows. I still need it because some of my classes are Windows-only, but that's about it. I'm not even playing games as much as I used to; I no longer have the time. And so the symbiosis will end...

Anyway, one more thing: even if what I'm doing is so terribly wrong, I see absolutely no reason to agree to having a company audit my system in any way. The government may try to do so if they produce a warrant, should they suspect me of a crime; I'm loath to willingly surrender my system to some company for the same purpose.

Re:Yeah, right

[fwarren]

Microsoft isn't losing any money because he's using some pirated copy of Windows. He would have never bought their software at the price they wanted/with restrictions on his liberties in place/other reason to not use it. So they're not really losing a sale, since he was never going to buy it anyway.

But Microsoft still obtains benefit.....

Microsoft will GLADLY claim him as a Windows User when it tells developers not to develope games for Linux or Mac. Micosoft most certainly does not want people running other OS's. No matter how much they complain. They would prefer you to run a pirate copy of Windows to you running a Mac or Linux.

Re:Yeah, right

[Penguinisto]

They are not targeting YOU. Keep on running your unsupported pirate copy of XP with unknown security backdoors. Your choice.

...and this differs from the legit versions how? XP has lots of unknown security backdoors in it, legit or not. The recent stealth update kerfuffle taught us that.

The support? Dude, a typical p2p Windows user just re-installs the thing when it breaks, like the legit users do.

Not that I support pirating the thing (after all, if they couldn't pirate it, they'd be learning to use Linux, BSD, or anything better than Windows), but honestly, you;re not really providing much incentive here.

/P

Re:Yeah, right

[The Spoonman]

And, in those cases, where a company can clearly document that they've made a reasonable effort to ensure they didn't buy pirated software, but can show they were defrauded by a dealer, will always be given a pass by these companies. But, they'll always decide to press the issue if the offending company can't prove they DIDN'T buy pirated software. If they walk in and you've got one licensed copy of Windows on 400 machines and you've got no documentation anywhere that shows you own even one more...they're going to be a little suspicious. And, well they should. The problem is, the Slashdot crowd makes it out that the BSA is bashing down the doors of hundreds of companies a day. From what I've seen, they only go where they've been given a tip, such as from a current or ex disgruntled employee (as I did to a former employer. :)

Re:Yeah, right

[mysticgoat]

Suppose I were a pirate; what would I get in this? After all, I can still get my copy of Windows software "free".

But suppose you are a CIO of a company with a thousand WinXP workstations, and you don't sleep well at night because your predecessor had some lax policies and you've no idea how much of your ass is exposed to any employee who has an ax to grind. You might welcome the opportunity to get clean, before a BSA audit comes your way.

Much as I hate MS business practices in general, I can see where this scheme is beneficial. It could give a lot of small and mid-size businesses the breathing room they need while they decide which version of Linux is right for their future.... now that we all can finally see what the future with Vista would be like....

Re:Yeah, right

[Anonymous Coward]

a tip, such as from a current or ex disgruntled employee (as I did to a former employer. :) Maybe this is a statement that you should have made as ac

Re:Yeah, right

[plague3106]

What lengths? Getting a fully patched, updated and activated pirated copy is both cheaper and easier than getting it the legal way, at least in my country.

Well theft is always cheaper. I'm not sure how its easier; you have no store you can go into and simply buy a copy of software?

I find Windows barely good enough for some purposes - definitely not good enough to pay the listed price (which is relatively higher than people in the US have to pay, as my income is much lower). I know that my actions are considered wrong or immoral by some, if not most people; I really and truly do not care. I don't feel like I'm stealing or damaging someone in any way; I may be breaking the law, but frankly, I don't care. Since the law certainly isn't protecting me, I don't think exploitation should go one-way only.

So don't use if, if it doesn't meet your needs or you don't find value in it. You are damaging someone; your making it more expensive for people who do buy it, you're affecting a company which does employ people. MS may have more than enough money to ensure it can give its employees raises, but its an exception. Apply your reasoning to other software, especially from smaller shops, and you certainly are affecting someone's livelihood.

The law would protect you if you were creating software (or any other copyrighted product for that matter). You're not being exploited by paying for things you used.

Microsoft has had this tacit agreement with home pirates - while publicly speaking against software piracy, MS used it to their own advantage. They do their best to hunt down business pirates, but home users are too much of a bother, and too useful to stamp out. Thus I live in a strange symbiosis with Windows and Microsoft - I don't like them, they probably don't like me, but we each perceive some benefits of tolerating each other's existence.

You say the software isn't of value to you earlier, yet here you claim it does benefit you? Its not feasible to track down home pirates, sure, the RIAA is finding this out, but if you really don't like MS or its products, don't use them. It seems you're hurting alternatives more than anything else.

For what it's worth, I consider myself done with Windows. I still need it because some of my classes are Windows-only, but that's about it. I'm not even playing games as much as I used to; I no longer have the time. And so the symbiosis will end...

So why not remove it now? Surely you have computer labs if your coursework requires work to be done on computers.

Anyway, one more thing: even if what I'm doing is so terribly wrong, I see absolutely no reason to agree to having a company audit my system in any way. The government may try to do so if they produce a warrant, should they suspect me of a crime; I'm loath to willingly surrender my system to some company for the same purpose.

I dunno; it seems rather natural to check in on someone that broke the law. This is done with criminals too.

Re:Yeah, right

[Anonymous Coward]

They update just like the real thing, they work just like the real thing

No, that's not true and you either know it or have no clue what you're talking about.

Re:Yeah, right

[sqrt(2)]

Amazing, I didn't think it was possible for personal experiences to be wrong, but I guess I'll take your higher authority on it Mr. AC.

Log in and post and I'll go ahead and provide proof that I'm right, otherwise you're not worth the time.

Re:Yeah, right

[Provocateur]

The outfit, for one thing. They'd have to give up the faux eyepatch, the requisite inflatable parrot velcro'ed on the left shoulder, and the faux pegleg.

Re:Yeah, right

[ACMENEWSLLC]

>>If someone is pirating windows, why would they self identify and then agree to an eternal audit of their infrastructure?

Not everyone who pirates Windows did so intentionally. What about those of us who spent $80,000 on Microsoft licenses from a VAR in which case the VAR pirated the software? See, some of us are stuck with pirated software that we paid for but Microsoft will not allow us to use.

Re:Yeah, right

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, that sounds like a Linux distrbution!

In a product from Microsoft? no way!

Times, they are a changin

Re:Yeah, right

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to deal with WGA
You don't have the hassle of re-activating it if you upgrade/change your hardware
You often don't have the hassle of entering and storing (without losing) the license key when you reinstall
And the obvious - that it's cheaper

Ahhh, the irony!

I would actually pay more to get this version if it were offered by Microsoft.
Instead, alas, they force me to pirate it and pay nothing!

Re:Yeah, right

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting anon for obvious reasons, but you're absolutely right.

I purchased valid XP licenses for my desktop VMs, and after innumerably problems related to changes in the virtual hardware invalidating the license, I gave up on them. I'm now using a pirated version of XP which seems to ignore all the WGA nonsense quite well.

It's a sad truth, but as is so often the case with DRM-infected software, the pirated version is quantifiably better than the real thing, to the point that I'd willingly pay a premium for the pirated version.

Re:Yeah, right

[leenks]

Perhaps you should take a look at some of the recent hacks? Despite having a legit XP Pro licence for my Macbook, I've used one of these recently to save on the activation and WGA hassles I've had using Bootcamp and Parallels with the same install...

Re:Yeah, right

[cp.tar]

Well theft is always cheaper. I'm not sure how its easier; you have no store you can go into and simply buy a copy of software?

Well, yes, I could.

But I'd have to actually go to a store, not just tell any of my friends I needed a Windows CD and get it, sometimes right away. Outside working hours, too.

So don't use if, if it doesn't meet your needs or you don't find value in it. You are damaging someone; your making it more expensive for people who do buy it, you're affecting a company which does employ people.

I'm sorry, are you actually suggesting that if everyone bought Windows, it would be cheaper?

I don't know about you, but I've lived my whole life being sucked dry by monopollies, including the German telco giant abusing the monopolly they'd bought - practically with our own money.

Giants get no sympathy from me, for they sure have no sympathy for me. I may not be any better than them, but I don't aspire to be, either. I live in the Balkans; here, morality is a distant second, or even fifth, to survival. No prisoner's dilemma here; everybody cheats, so you lose if you don't.

MS may have more than enough money to ensure it can give its employees raises, but its an exception. Apply your reasoning to other software, especially from smaller shops, and you certainly are affecting someone's livelihood.

Did I say I pirated any other software?

Even on Windows, I try to use as much F/OSS as possible.

The law would protect you if you were creating software (or any other copyrighted product for that matter). You're not being exploited by paying for things you used.

Well, you obviously know very little about the law in these parts. Let me illustrate this: the Wikipedia article about handshake is locked, primarily because people have tried - several hundred times, I believe - to insert a vital piece of trivia. Namely, one of our judges stated in his verdict that pushing a finger in someone's anus cannot be rape, but is rather more like a handshake. And despite many verdicts of this kind, he is still a judge.

You say the software isn't of value to you earlier, yet here you claim it does benefit you? Its not feasible to track down home pirates, sure, the RIAA is finding this out, but if you really don't like MS or its products, don't use them. It seems you're hurting alternatives more than anything else.

I don't use Windows for anything but the things there is no alternative for. Namely, one or two games that don't work under Wine and the few courses I cannot escape Windows.

Otherwise, I'm a Linux user, and I've put Linux on my father's and stepmother's computers, and I'm building a Linux machine for my grandfather, too.

So why not remove it now? Surely you have computer labs if your coursework requires work to be done on computers.

Well, you obviously know about the education here just as much as you know about the law.

My faculty has over 30 departments and one computer lab. I brought my old Linux machine and put it in one of the students' clubs.

I could actually get a licenced copy of Windows cheap, as there is bound to be some sort of agreement between my university and Microsoft - but I refuse to. As long as I'm forced to use Windows, as long as I have to buy a Mac to get a decent laptop without Windows, and especially as long as Microsoft keeps their unfair business practices, I'm opposed to buying their software under any terms.

My logic may be weird, but I don't expect you to understand it, really.

Anyway, one more thing: even if what I'm doing is so terribly wrong, I see absolutely no reason to agree to having a company audit my system in any way. The government may try to do so if they produce a warrant, should they suspect me of a crime; I'm loath to willingly surrender my system to some company for the same

Re:Yeah, right

[Lesrahpem]

The pirated copy is *BETTER*.

You don't have to deal with WGA
You don't have the hassle of re-activating it if you upgrade/change your hardware
You often don't have the hassle of entering and storing (without losing) the license key when you reinstall
And the obvious - that it's cheaper

Not only that, but there's kind of a big incentive, aside from the monetary one, for OEM's who install priated copies of windows. I've seen a pirated ISO of XP SP2 that:

• has most general optimizations done already
• comes with stupid stuff, like the alerter and messaging service, and remote assistance, turned off by default
• It also has the option to automatically install a bunch of nice software. It just asks you about it when it's done with the install. It has open office, the sun JRE, a version of notepad with syntax highlighting and tabs, firefox (with the flash plugin, noscript, and adblock), thunderbird, avira antivir, and 7zip.
• After it's done installing it asks if you want to make a backup. You pop in a DVD and it'll make a recovery disk you can boot from to restore the computer to exactly like it was at the time of installation

This means that instead of it taking around an hour and a half to install windows, tweak it so it acts right, and install all that software, it takes about a half hour. Also, customers really like having a recovery disk like that sometimes (the created disk, by the way, also acts as a regular XP install disk if you want it to).

It's better quality, in almost every way, than the "genuine" Windows XP OEM disks.

Re:Yeah, right

[SkyDude]

Not everyone who pirates Windows did so intentionally. What about those of us who spent $80,000 on Microsoft licenses from a VAR in which case the VAR pirated the software? See, some of us are stuck with pirated software that we paid for but Microsoft will not allow us to use.

Call me crazy, but if my former employer budgeted 80 large for anything from one source, you can believe that vendor would get the mother of all anal exams.

Didn't anyone ever hear of references or indemnification clauses?

Re:Yeah, right

[Petrushka]

To qualify, users of illegitimate versions of Windows XP Pro must pledge to use only genuine Microsoft software going forward

What does the meaning of "going forward" mean? Has this submitted story been submitted as a story by the Department of Redundancy Department?

Re:Yeah, right

[ScrewMaster]

the pirated version is quantifiably better than the real thing, to the point that I'd willingly pay a premium for the pirated version.

The good news is, there are plenty of small companies that would be perfectly happy to take your money.

Re:Yeah, right

[GameboyRMH]

I agree with you completely, EXCEPT there's one disadvantage...

Updating is a chore. However a pirated copy is still far better overall.

Just reinstalled WinXP Pro (OEM) on a laptop, same hardware, same disc, same key. And it got deactivated. What would happen to the Average Joe when their kid opens a suspicious email attachment with the AV off, unleashing one nasty mofo of a virus and the OS needs to be reinstalled? They follow the directions and WHOOPS bye bye license key. The biggest joke is that when your "grace period" runs out, it gets difficult to get your data off the PC and under certain circumstances it can be impossible to reactivate (can't change network settings etc)

Re:Yeah, right

[Artifakt]

I've wondered if business execs and such could afford to deal with such problems piecemeal or not. Take a slight variation on your example. Suppose a CIO thinks a subordinate, such as the former head of the advertising department, may have allowed some pirated graphics software onto that department's machines. If the CIO directs an internal audit of just the graphics programs and for just that department, what happens if the BSA later audits the whole business for general software non-compliance? It seems like the CIO could make the decision to only audit a particularly suspect area for normally good reasons such as cost effectiveness, but to the BSA, wouldn't it look like that CIO was suspicious there were other problems and deliberately limited the scope of the internal audit, hoping to bury them?

      And, since an audit of just one department might trigger some slighted feeling employee there forwarding a tip about some other department...

Re:Yeah, right

[vuffi_raa]

actually see it this way:
I start a business and can't afford to set up shop so I am running, say 30 computers with pirated OS's- first quarter comes and I break a profit, but I have taxes to pay- so I call MS for an audit and get a quote to pay full price for licenses. I then write this as a retroactive purchase and gain a tax credit for my first quarter for the purchase. that means- free licenses while I had operating capitol for the first quarter.

Re:Yeah, right

[BungaDunga]

You mean the Department of the DRD, yes?

Re:Yeah, right

[Meski]

Well, a significant portion of these "pirates" are supposedly people/groups that have no idea that they are breaking any rules.

If they have no idea that they're running a pirated copy of Windows then how would they know they should consider this offer by MS? When they go to the Microsoft site to get the latest SP/whatever, and the cute software there tells you that it is a bogus copy?

Re:Yeah, right

[Anonymous Coward]

If you get the right release, updating is not a chore. I have a copy of Windows XP---running under VirtualBox in Linux, so it doesn't make a heck of a difference since running "genuine" copy of Windows under virtualization is still violation of the "license". In for a penny, in for a pound, as the saying goes---and this one came with a WGA crack. Of course, installing the crack was involved enough to need step-by-step instructions, but nothing anyone who can follow installation instructions can't do.

As far as I can see, I can use the Windows Update just fine and there is no downside to using a gratis copy of Windows.

Re:Yeah, right

[focoma]

It's a trap!

Re:Yeah, right

[pixeltrasher]

Or maybe, in the words of Eddie Izzard: CAKE OR DEATH?

Re:Yeah, right

[plague3106]

Well, yes, I could.

But I'd have to actually go to a store, not just tell any of my friends I needed a Windows CD and get it, sometimes right away. Outside working hours, too.

How often do you need the cd? Besides, you only need to buy the cd once, and you have it. Seems like a pretty lame excuse to me.

I'm sorry, are you actually suggesting that if everyone bought Windows, it would be cheaper?

Yes, quite possibly. If I was making software, and I noticed that about 10% was pirated, I would factor that in to the cost of my next release. Not to mention extra time spent coding any anti-piracy measures.

I don't know about you, but I've lived my whole life being sucked dry by monopollies, including the German telco giant abusing the monopolly they'd bought - practically with our own money.

Sorry, you can't compare a telco monopoly to Windows. There are alternatives, and you can switch right now. You even say games are the only reason you keep windows. Sounds to me then you should just give up games on the PC and use software you aquired ligitmately.

Giants get no sympathy from me, for they sure have no sympathy for me. I may not be any better than them, but I don't aspire to be, either. I live in the Balkans; here, morality is a distant second, or even fifth, to survival. No prisoner's dilemma here; everybody cheats, so you lose if you don't.

I see, so its ok to steal from people that have worked to earn more than you. For your informatin though, not everyone cheats, not everyone is a criminal. If you really believe that, perhaps its time to go back to absolutionish rule and let the government do whatever it wants; after all, everyone is a criminal anyway, so why not let them do anything they want.

Did I say I pirated any other software?

Even on Windows, I try to use as much F/OSS as possible.

I dunno, I tend to think that if one can rationalize stealing one item, they can rationalize stealing something else. You admit you steal, so I don't really have much reason to believe you only stole this one thing. That's the problem with someone that steals, its a dishonest act, and so your honesty gets called into question.

Well, you obviously know very little about the law in these parts. Let me illustrate this: the Wikipedia article about handshake is locked, primarily because people have tried - several hundred times, I believe - to insert a vital piece of trivia. Namely, one of our judges stated in his verdict that pushing a finger in someone's anus cannot be rape, but is rather more like a handshake. And despite many verdicts of this kind, he is still a judge.

And this has what to do exactly with copyright? Oh right, nothing.

I don't use Windows for anything but the things there is no alternative for. Namely, one or two games that don't work under Wine and the few courses I cannot escape Windows.

Again, does your college not provide a computer lab for which you can do your work? How about a student license for Windows? Those are typically MUCH cheaper than retail. Why not give up games on the PC? Can I steal a Wii because there's an exclusive game on it I want to play?

Well, you obviously know about the education here just as much as you know about the law.

My faculty has over 30 departments and one computer lab. I brought my old Linux machine and put it in one of the students' clubs.

How would I even know what country you were in unti this post? At anyrate, it sounds a rather cheap university.. maybe you should have investaged better what the courses would require and what kind of facilaties it had before you decided to enroll.

I could actually get a licenced copy of Windows cheap, as there is bound to be some sort of agreement between my university and Microsoft - but I refuse to. As long as I'm forced to use Windows, as long as I have to buy a Mac to get a decent laptop without Windows, and especially as long as Microso

Re:Yeah, right

[rtb61]

I would like to make a corrective addition to your gross misrepresentation, "You don't have the hassle of re-activating it if you upgrade/change your hardware" in point of fact I used all five of my activations, with and changing one bit of hardware.

Somehow in the typical wonderful world of M$ windows, my PC decided all on its own that all the hardware had changed between reboots, it did this at random intervals, requiring me, first up one morning whilst in a rush to beg M$ for the super long code unlock the (P)OS code whilst they implied I was pirating the software.

That'll teach me using a M$ windows PC 'game console' for serious email. M$ Windows, it is just a toy, don't believe me, read the warranty/EULA.

Re:Yeah, right

[Bert64]

Must have been a fairly old crack..
I've seen a pirated XP install CD that installed the activation and wga cracks along with the rest of the OS, as well as all the updates that had been released at the time the CD was made.

Re:Yeah, right

[Bert64]

With more competition in the OS market (ie different vendors following the same set of standards so you could pick and choose easily) this wouldn't happen.
If vendor X only offered a half assed version, aside from pirate versions you'd also be able to get a legitimate system from vendor Y which offered the same or more features.

Re:Yeah, right

[cp.tar]

How often do you need the cd? Besides, you only need to buy the cd once, and you have it. Seems like a pretty lame excuse to me.

I'm sorry, can you deny it is more convenient? Lame as it may sound, it is true.

I'm sorry, are you actually suggesting that if everyone bought Windows, it would be cheaper?

Yes, quite possibly. If I was making software, and I noticed that about 10% was pirated, I would factor that in to the cost of my next release. Not to mention extra time spent coding any anti-piracy measures.

Well, that's why MS makes billions, and you, apparently, do not.

If I were making software, it would be under the GPL or some similar licence. Copy it all you want.

Besides, spending time coding anti-piracy measures is mostly wasting it, at least if you're mass-producing and mass-selling software. Or if you have an established de facto monopolly, so you can strong-arm former pirates into buying your product through Reduced Functionality Mode etc, which is what MS is doing now.

Anyway, anti-piracy measures waste your time, they will get cracked anyway, and anyone who wants to use your software will use it.

Besides, piracy increases your market share and your mindshare; home users will likely pirate your stuff, while business users likely will not. Home users use software they use at work, and vice versa.

Sorry, you can't compare a telco monopoly to Windows. There are alternatives, and you can switch right now. You even say games are the only reason you keep windows. Sounds to me then you should just give up games on the PC and use software you aquired ligitmately.

Well, I could have given up my phone, too, and only used mobile.

I see, so its ok to steal from people that have worked to earn more than you.

Microsoft's success is not all about work. Do words "unfair business practice" mean anything to you?

For your informatin though, not everyone cheats, not everyone is a criminal.

Microsoft, however, is a convicted abuser of their monopolly.

If you really believe that, perhaps its time to go back to absolutionish rule and let the government do whatever it wants; after all, everyone is a criminal anyway, so why not let them do anything they want.

Are you American, by any chance? From where I stand, it looks like you're doing just that.

I dunno, I tend to think that if one can rationalize stealing one item, they can rationalize stealing something else. You admit you steal, so I don't really have much reason to believe you only stole this one thing. That's the problem with someone that steals, its a dishonest act, and so your honesty gets called into question.

First of all, I do not steal. Copyright infringement is not theft. So sod off.

Secondly, if I were dishonest, I'd simply keep my big mouth shut and you'd be none the wiser.

And this has what to do exactly with copyright? Oh right, nothing.

It has to do with the law in these parts.

Again, does your college not provide a computer lab for which you can do your work? How about a student license for Windows? Those are typically MUCH cheaper than retail.

Did you even read my post?

Why not give up games on the PC? Can I steal a Wii because there's an exclusive game on it I want to play?

Copyright infringement is not theft.

I have not stolen a packed CD; I received a copy of a copy of a copy.

I have deprived no-one of their legal copy, I haven't stolen something someone else would have bought.

I know this difference may be a bit too subtle for someone clearly incapable of reading a whole post, but do try.

How would I even know what country you were in unti this post? At anyrate, it sounds a

Re:Yeah, right

[plague3106]

I'm sorry, can you deny it is more convenient? Lame as it may sound, it is true.

Not really. At one time trip to the store, and then I have the CD anytime I need after? No, its not true, its a very lame excuse.

Well, that's why MS makes billions, and you, apparently, do not.

I could point to you and any COMPANY and say the same thing. Whats your point?

If I were making software, it would be under the GPL or some similar licence. Copy it all you want.

Good luck feeding your family that way.

Besides, spending time coding anti-piracy measures is mostly wasting it, at least if you're mass-producing and mass-selling software. Or if you have an established de facto monopolly, so you can strong-arm former pirates into buying your product through Reduced Functionality Mode etc, which is what MS is doing now.

Its a waste of time yet you claim its working? Hmm.. interesting logic there. And I feel really sorry for those that stole something having it not work anymore.

Well, I could have given up my phone, too, and only used mobile.

Yes, you could, and many people do. Oh, and then there's also VOIP now too. But those are all relatively recent, which is why the telcos are a monopoly (and still are, because they own the lines, something YOU cannot change).

Microsoft's success is not all about work. Do words "unfair business practice" mean anything to you?

Ahh, so that justifies your stealing. Lets be real here, others can compete, there were OSes long before DOS or Windows. This also isn't about what MS has done, its about you attempting to justify your stealing.

Besides, piracy increases your market share and your mindshare; home users will likely pirate your stuff, while business users likely will not. Home users use software they use at work, and vice versa.

You act as if a majority of home or business users pirate. That's simply not true. They pay for windows when they buy their computer with Windows already installed.

Microsoft, however, is a convicted abuser of their monopolly.

So that means its ok to steal from them? Can you punch someone in the gut because they commited a crime once?

First of all, I do not steal. Copyright infringement is not theft. So sod off.

Ya you did. You're using software you didn't pay for. Software which is BENFITING YOU, but which you have not given any compensation for. With everything else that someone works to produce, you have the option to buy it or go without.

Secondly, if I were dishonest, I'd simply keep my big mouth shut and you'd be none the wiser.

You stole a product, you're dishonest.

Did you even read my post?

Yup, and you even said you could have bought the student license.

Copyright infringement is not theft.

I have not stolen a packed CD; I received a copy of a copy of a copy.

I have deprived no-one of their legal copy, I haven't stolen something someone else would have bought.

I know this difference may be a bit too subtle for someone clearly incapable of reading a whole post, but do try.

What I understand is that a company is out the money they would have gotten if you were honest. If you don't want to pay for it, GO WITHOUT.

It has to do with the law in these parts.

Really? A case about a guy shoving his finger up someone's ass somehow is linked to copyright?

Are you American, by any chance? From where I stand, it looks like you're doing just that.

And from my comments, can you not tell I don't approve of that methodology?

Of course not. I am only forced to use it. That's what I'm talking about; are you catching on already?

You're forced to play PC games? Oh your college requires Windows. Why not have choosen one that didn't? Do you get upset if they expect you to purchase textbooks for your courses? Pens? Paper? Why is Windows different

Yes, I "promise" never to do it again

[Gothmolly]

So you're going to trust someone who has already pirated at least 1 copy in the past, that they'll stop doing it?

Re:Yes, I "promise" never to do it again

[Aladrin]

No, that's why they force the company to sign a contract to submit to audits... Probably plural. Microsoft clearly expects to use this as an 'in' to monitor criminals... Dream on.

Re:Yes, I "promise" never to do it again

[jimstapleton]

Of course not, that's what the auditing is for!

But all things considered, I wonder where I can get Genuine Microsoft FreeBSD, KDE, OpenOffice, BASH, GIMP, Pidgin, Firefox...

awe screw it.

Re:Yes, I "promise" never to do it again

[ceoyoyo]

From Novell?

Re:Yes, I "promise" never to do it again

[Technician]

So you're going to trust someone who has already pirated at least 1 copy in the past, that they'll stop doing it?

It happens. Sometimes it happens without agreeing to an audit.
http://www.news.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.html

Re:Yes, I "promise" never to do it again

[Anonymous Coward]

So that lying sack of shit dirtbag tried to cheap out on his obligations and then blamed the victim for the crap his dishonest employees pulled? Sorry, but that story rings about as true as getting 20% from some guy in Nigeria.

Re:Yes, I "promise" never to do it again

[Technician]

tried to cheap out on his obligations

He found the BSA audit, business downtime, and the contract under duress far exceeded any value in the software and went with a software source with much user friendly terms. I don't blame him. Read the article. They hit him pretty hard and then tried to squeeze him out of business. They lost him in the process.

The damage to Microsoft and the BSA is long lasting and well deserved.

Actually

[El Lobo]

Actually many here will, of course, disagree with me, but this is a very smart and good move, not only for Microsoft, but for the users. There are a lot of users thta have their Windows locked from further updates, because they installed the GA software and they WERE actually running a pirated Windows. Some of them have, after that , adquired a legal license, but others, just sit there with their pirated copy.

This is actually a good solution for those people and a civilizated solution for the whole problem.

Sure, bring on now the "oh, MS wants just to mantain the monopoly", "oh, they will kill people privacities", etc... No matter waht you say, this IS a good move.

Re:Actually

[ConceptJunkie]

Given that copies of Windows that are locked out of updates are very likely to be parts of botnets, it is a good thing. Microsoft has a responsibility to mitigate some of the mess they've made over the years.

Re:Actually

[El Lobo]

Critical updates are not locked out even for pirated copies, so don't worry, it's not about that, they take responsability even for pirated copies.

Re:Actually

[Txiasaeia]

"Some of them have, after that , adquired a legal license, but others, just sit there with their pirated copy."

And some of them just reinstall Windows, turn on Automatic Updates (don't download, let me choose) and deselect "WGA" in the updates. After this, Windows can be updated through Automatic Updates without a hitch.

Re:Actually

[InvisblePinkUnicorn]

Please note: the adjective form of "civilization" is not "civilizated".

Re:Actually

[Anonymous Coward]

You make a valid point, but, where is the fine print? (I'm sure some law student will find it before this thread vanishes from the front page, as to what Microsoft really gains by this) Microsoft (and big business in general) isn't the type to just give up revenue (on purpose).

I in the past have worked for many many small computer shops. It seems like small computer shops are almost exclusively owned by people that at one point in their lives were used car salesmen, and they bring that same mentality to the table. Sadly small computer shops are the modern day auto mechanic, 'fixing' things that aren't broken, selling you things you don't need at one hell of a markup, and blatantly lying to their clients with all the confidence that the client doesn't understand enough to know that they are being ripped off. I've spent many hours pleading the case for going legit, and feeling bad for our customers that didn't even know how short the end of the stick they got actually was.

In all honesty, I'd -love- to see Microsoft go after these shops.

I remember being very apprehensive when Microsoft did the 'rat on the place that installed pirated software and we will give you a legit license', but in all honesty.... that was probably the best decision.

The customer loses out on this all around. It's the dishonest business men that should have to pay.

Re:Actually

[Anonymous Coward]

MS wants just to mantain the monopoly and they will kill people privacities

Re:Actually

[ozmanjusri]

No matter waht you say, this IS a good move.

It's nonsensical.

I'm pirating Windows.

I own and have paid for a copy of XP for every computer I'm running it on, but I run pirate (volume license) copies because product activation and WGA are such a pain in the arse that it's better to firewall unpatched machines than license them.

Microsoft has made pirated copies of Windows better products than legitimate versions. That's why this "initiative" is bullshit and will fail.

Re:Actually

[El Lobo]

nope, some newer downloads can only be downloaded (without hacking the system) if you have WGA. Those are not critical updates, though.

Re:Actually

[ConceptJunkie]

Good for them. I totally understand about not wanting to reward pirates, but MS has a responsibility to disarm the millions of ticking time-bombs they've loosed on the 'net and it sounds like they are.

I know, maybe they could rig up some way for pirated copies of Windows to remain secure (such as it is) but be huge, bloated and slow, without offering improved functionality over legitimately-licensed copies of XP. Oh, wait, I just described Vista.

I'm no big fan of Microsoft*, but I do like XP by the way, since you are a "proud" Windows user and developer, I thought I would mention that for almost 20 years I was a user and developer for Windows, but my work these days is all on Linux and I run Linux on all my machines. There are actually two machines I would like to run XP on, but one would blue-screen all the time so and the other machine currently has Windows 2000 and blue screens when attempting to install XP, so the first machine stays strictly Ubuntu and the latter Windows 2000). As it is I have two Vista licenses I will never use and 4 XP licenses that are sitting idle, although I think I'm going to upgrade the Windows 2000 VM on my box (for games, you know) to XP.

*Actually it was a love-hate relationship, but when I bought a laptop with Vista, it became hate-hate.

Re:Actually

[plague3106]

I own and have paid for a copy of XP for every computer I'm running it on, but I run pirate (volume license) copies because product activation and WGA are such a pain in the arse that it's better to firewall unpatched machines than license them.

How is it a pain? Activation happens once typically, and you never even see WGA unless you go to MS downloads and see a Validate button instead of download.

Re:Actually

[rucs_hack]

You must not have installed WGA on an illegal XP install. I've seen it, it pops up messages all the time, and becomes so annoying as to render the machine unuseable. However the simplest fix as it turns out was supplied by Microsoft. Just do a system restore to before WGA was installed and forbid it to download again.

Then again of course if you re-install you're boned, because microsoft require WGA to be installed before any other updates.

Re:Actually

[Anonymous Coward]

because product activation and WGA are such a pain in the arse...

Huh? Is this some wierd psychological block or something based on that one guy who blogged about some edge case problem? Most users don't even know activation exists it's so transparent. It takes maybe 10 seconds when you first install Windows. WGA is not quite as transparent (maybe a whole 2 minutes of download + install) but once it's installed you hardly ever have to touch it.

Re:Actually

[Anonymous Coward]

How is it a pain? Activation happens once typically, and you never even see WGA unless you go to MS downloads and see a Validate button instead of download.

Because unlike the masses who keep their computers until they replace it completely, geeks make upgrades. And then they have to call MS because the online activation won't work.

Re:Actually

[Anonymous Coward]

Duly notivizated.

Re:Actually

[broggyr]

As it is I have two Vista licenses I will never use...

Can I have one? LOL

Re:Actually

[ConceptJunkie]

I know you're kidding, but come to think of it, Microsoft doesn't allow the transfer of OEM licenses, do they?

Man, what a racket. I wish I could get a $50 or so for every computer sold for doing absolutely nothing.

Re:Actually

[plague3106]

Fine, it a two minute phone call is too much trouble, then why use it at all? I suppose that says more about the alternatives than anything else.

Re:Actually

[Anonymous Coward]

But you're okay with "privacities"?

Re:Actually

[toddestan]

So far, everything that comes down through Automatic Updates hasn't required WGA. Things like .NET and the latest Windows Media Player that you have to get by going through Microsoft's site do require WGA.

Re:Actually

[Xybre]

My good friend just had this issue, he upgraded his PC and online activation wouldn't work. He had to give a 64 digit number to the tech on the phone and then had to receive a 32 digit number. That sounds like a pain in the ass to me. The alternatives are, not wasting a moment of your life trying to relay a sequence of numbers to some guy in another country so you can use something you bought and paid for a license to use.

Re:Actually

[sakasune]

and I have no idea what he meant by "privacities" - privacy maybe? it doesn't sound right in contextcities

Audit? Idiot.

[Aladrin]

The audit is idiotic. They have the choice of grabbing lots of cash from a company that wants to get legal, or scaring companies that want to get legal and not getting the money.

I suppose the third choice is the company that pays the money, despite being scared, and ... WTF. Why would they do that? The only possible outcome is giving a monopolistic corporation unlimited access to your tech infrastructure. That just can't be a good idea.

Re:Audit? Idiot.

[Bert64]

Well, if you run modern versions of windows you already give a monopolistic corporation unlimited access to (and control over) your infrastructure... You even explicitly agreed to it in the EULA.

Re:Audit? Idiot.

[Opportunist]

And now for those of us who are not bound by the EULA, since it violates part of local consumer rights laws and thus becomes void?

msoft:

[kevin.fowler]

Hey mister pirate... will you help us find our lost OS? I last saw him with candy and a puppy running into that unmarked van other there.

What do they mean, exactly?

[scribblej]

In what sense do they mean "use only genuine Microsoft software?" Do they mean if you are using MS software you must agree to pay for it which is so obvious it hardly bears saying, I mean, they will be auditing you... of course you will not get away with using more MS pirated software.

Or do they mean you must avoid software from any vendor but MS?

I read the article but it doesn't clarify.

Re:What do they mean, exactly?

[darthflo]

IANAL but AFAIK there's no legal way for Microsoft to force you not to use software from other vendors, so it's about not using non-geniune Microsoft products.

Re:What do they mean, exactly?

[Anonymous Coward]

> In what sense do they mean "use only genuine Microsoft software?"

"use only genuine Microsoft software" = use only microsoft software that is genuine
"use genuine Microsoft software only" = use genuine Microsoft software, not non-genuine MS software, or another vendor's software, whether genuine or not"

is my reading of the syntax.

Re:What do they mean, exactly?

[davidsyes]

By telling them and making them agree to using ONLY GENUINE windows XP software, they probably also mean NO OPEN SOURCE.

Using Samba, Webmin, Cups, Apache, K-Mail and open source mail servers? Look OUT. Here comes OUTLOOK! Using any Python/Pearl/PHP/Eclipse? Here comes active x, and various incarnations of windows framework stuff.

If you comply with this audit, AND dump Open Source, then you don't value nor deserve "freedom". Give rise to inertia, momentum, impetus to FREEDOM of CHOICE of software AND operating system. Don't fall into the coercion tactics. Come clean, or else. Coming clean can mean buying the LEGIT copies BEFORE your employees rat you out. THEN after getting ONLY the copies of windoze you NEED, put everyone else on OO.o or Lotus SmartSuite, EXCEPT where you NEED the exact ms copies. Otherwise, get creative. Stop being lazy.

Didn't the RIAA try this

[techpawn]

Just tell us who you are, we'll help you get legal... After we slap you for being pirates first of course

What's the Point?

[darthflo]

What exactly is the goal of this new program? They offer businesses the chance to license their (currently mislicensed) installed versions of WinXP, don't seem to offer a huge discount on that and want an assurance of no more mislicensing and an audit?
Why would any business do that instead of just buying a normal volume license? What's the advantage in this?

Re:What's the Point?

[silent_artichoke]

Maybe the point is to make it easier to just do it the legitimate way in the first place.

Re:What's the Point?

[TechForensics]

I might guess that M$ is anxious to convert copies of XP they can never control (pirated and / or not using Windows Update) into copies they CAN control (fully updated, SP3, less cloneable, user bent over far and wide for the new WGA crap / DRM / rootkits M$ would like you to have).

Simply, they may wish to decimate the number of XP installations that can be easily cloned and installed on other machines so as to be off the Microsoft control grid.

Re:What's the Point?

[ednopantz]

WGA crap / DRM / rootkits M$ would like you to have).

What, did you use a slashdot post generator or something here?

"Make sure you mention DRM and rootkits, and call Microsoft M$. Then finish cleaning your room."

Re:What's the Point?

[mithras invictus]

"Resellers who push the Get Genuine Windows Agreement to customers will get a cut of any new license fees they generate"

Sounds like they want to turn resellers into the windows police.

And?

[mpapet]

In my limited experience in the U.S., there are two kinds of shops, ones that are good about not stealing software and the other that steals as they see fit. In the case of the shop that steals, they generally swing into compliance if the business takes off. In my limited dealings with my counterparts in Taiwan and China, they operate similarly.

As much as I really, really don't like Microsoft's business practices, this kind of program is just fine by me. It is the brain child of some manager at Microsoft who figured out a novel way to further monetize their customers. Will this manager get a gold star on her review? Probably. Will it fail? (e.g. cost Microsoft a bunch of money) No. Will there be limited/no market penetration? Probably.

Re:And?

[DoofusOfDeath]

Will this manager get a gold star on her review?

Isn't it kind of sexist for you to assume that this idea came from a woman?

Re:And?

[somersault]

I thought that saying 'her' was an attempt at being PC, as I generally do when I see 'she' in coding or whatever books..

As a man, I don't give a toss that he said she. I do get offended that there are some companies that sell car insurance to *only* women, because you know the women would all be bitching if there was an insurance company only for guys..

Re:And?

[ILongForDarkness]

In my limited experience in the U.S., there are two kinds of shops, ones that are good about not stealing software and the other that steals as they see fit. In the case of the shop that steals, they generally swing into compliance if the business takes off. Exactly. So sad we can't trust people. It would be great if there was a freeware until you can afford it type of licensing. Maybe a profit-sharing solution? I propose:

License: You have use of this software, blah blah, which has a value of 300US in todays dollars. Present value shall be amortized at the going federal reverve rate. Payments shall be made at a rate of no less than 10% of the buyers profit per annum until software is paid off. Supporting documentation of the corporations revenue shall be provided, if complete payment for outstanding purchase amount isn't made in any given calendar year.

I think something similar to this could work. If the company is really small they won't have a lot of software and probably will be able to pay it off within the first year (otherwise they would be forced to go back to their "real job"). If your at the point where you need expensive software (exchange server, SQL Server licenses etc), you "should" be at the point where you can turn a profit.

Re:And?

[ILongForDarkness]

Sorry it probably goes without saying, the idea behind this would be to get start ups familar with your products, so when they are profitable they continue to buy the products. If the company doesn't work out, you don't make the sale. But the bonus is, you still have had an impact on the customer, they know how to code in .Net say. They go somewhere else, and are more likely to recommend your solution (and you get revenue from their employer/consultee etc).

Re:And?

[linuxci]

As a man, I don't give a toss that he said she. I do get offended that there are some companies that sell car insurance to *only* women, because you know the women would all be bitching if there was an insurance company only for guys.. In the UK at least they actually do sell to men even though they *market* it as women only. I was told a while ago that's how they get round any gender discrimination law. To check it I went through the application form on shelias wheels website and it would quote me a price at the end (didn't buy it obviously).

Re:And?

[somersault]

Ah, I have wondered about that occasionally, thanks for clearing it up :p Yet another reason to hate the whole concept of marketing!

Re:And?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're obviously missing the point...

If it is even the slightest bit biased towards men it is "sexist" and thus evil

If it favours women then it's "feminist" and thus to be encouraged without question.

eternal audits

[Presto Vivace]

Eternal audits don't sound like a very good idea. Windows survives, at least in part, because the aggravation of migrating to something else is just too great. The more Microsoft raises the aggravation factor, the greater the incentive to migrate to another system.

What does this do for their sales?

[t_ban]

So now the cheapest way to get a brand new legal copy of 2k/XP/Vista is to d/l it from a bittorrent source and get it authenticated by M$?

Disclaimer: haven't read TFA.

Re:What does this do for their sales?

[toddestan]

After they send the BSA goons after you to do the required audit, you'd probably be wishing you had just bought a valid XP license in the first place.

your choice

[htricia]

I don't think Microsoft is doing anything wrong here, if they make a bit of profit on this good for them. But if you are using a pirated copy and pay & agree to them then you are the idiot. Microsoft banks on making money off of idiots.

Re:your choice

[fritz1968]

Microsoft banks on making money off of idiots.

Interesting... I thought this was the goal of all companies.

Re:your choice

[htricia]

good call

Re:your choice

[webmaster404]

Well then your forgetting Red Hat who has open code, Open source and still makes a profit and Canonical who have the fully open source Ubuntu. Sure they don't make billions like MS, but they have something that MS doesn't have and thats respect and loyal customers. Thats what gave Apple it's edge (even though they seem to be loosing it with iPhone price cuts and the like) and something that MS doesn't have and its killing them.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Hmmm....

[kevin.fowler]

Does that mean that they will they give me a letter of Marque to Pirate Apple software?

Tinfoil Hat

[suv4x4]

To qualify, users of illegitimate versions of Windows XP Pro must pledge to use only genuine Microsoft software going forward and agree to have their software infrastructure audited.

That's very subtle, they're signing to use only genuine Microsoft software, not signing to never use non-genuine Microsoft software. Could they come after me if I signed this and decided to go for BSD, or Linux or whatever?

You think I'm paranoid? Check the universities, schools, and OEM's and if it's easy for them to ship/use non-Windows machines after their "exclusive" MS agreement.

Then throw the audits in. Why would someone come out and say "ok I had 100 hacked XP machines. Audit me and lock me into agreement to buy your software", versus just silently buy the licenses they need?

There's something bigger here, could possibly start going after illegal users based on data phoned home (during Error Reports, Autoupdates, etc.). If they do, I can see audits + mandatory Windows could be suddenly heaven compared to having unleashed the entire legal team of MS on your ass.

Re:Tinfoil Hat

[Bert64]

I would actually welcome a software audit, it would be fairly amusing...
The only commercial software i have, is a copy of OSX that came with my macbook, and a significant number of machines running mostly linux, one or two running solaris.

Arrrrr righty then....

[LinuxGeek]

Everyone knows, once you go Pirate you never go back. Free lovin' of something ( even as bad as windows vista) makes it hard to go back to payin' for it... Thats why I love Linux, versions range from expensive business server to cheap and loose floozy, your choice! :)

Seriously though, how is this position not monopoly abuse by MS? Can other software companies adopt this position and still survive? Letting people steal your software, knowing about it, and then getting them to agree to a contract to keep using the stolen version. This must make people that have been busted by MS and the BSA feel pretty mad. When can they expect refunds of the fines they had to pay? And a public apology too?

I think I've seen this before?

[Steauengeglase]

1.) Join the Empire
2.) Get assessed and taxed or be punished for breaking the Empire's laws as a citizen.
3.) Get conscripted to go fight for the Empire.

Rinse, wash and repeat.

Cripes!

[Tau Neutrino]

It's bad enough I have to use XP. No way am I going to pay for it. Get real!

Re:Cripes!

[Echolima]

You must mean VISTA

Re:Cripes!

[Echolima]

I must have a hard time seeing in my old age.... I hit reply to the wrong post.

Re:Cripes!

[strcpy(NULL,...]

You mean this time, or the previous one?

Re:Cripes!

[HeLLFiRe1151]

Microsoft will have to pry my pirated copy from my cold dead hands.

Audit - Scaarrryy

[mrpacmanjel]

Allowing businesses to legitimise thier Microsoft software is fair enough and a good idea...

but...then allowing them to 'audit' your software collection?
I sincerley hope Microsoft have strict policies on what they are *allowed* to audit and limit it to Microsoft software only.

Can you imagine if you were using a competitive product and after the 'audit' receiving sales calls(bullied?) on why you should be using *thier* products instead?
(believe me when thay start they don't when to shutup)

I find the idea of an audit pretty extreme.

From personal experience no other software company stipulates this 'requirement'.

Does anybody have more details on what an audit from Microsoft entails?

Re:Audit - Scaarrryy

[Cherveny]

Along these lines, if the audit had to be done before the old, invalid license is updated, what's to prevent them from allowing you to upgrade, but then later charging you with software piracy using the audit's findings as evidence.

Improving security

[athloi]

The botnets out there are composed of Windows computers that are unpatched. Some are unpatched through user cluelessness, but more commonly, through pirated copies of Windows XP. If it costs $200 to get Geek Squad to (fail to) clean viruses and trojans from your PC, and you can upgrade to a self-updating copy of Windows XP for the same price, wouldn't you?

Re:Improving security

[tomstdenis]

Cuz most people don't know they have problems to start with. They just assume that a 130 second boot-time or hard-drive churning opening of Word is "normal."

My parents download every single app they can find, and they're generally not stupid. It wouldn't surprise me that their box has at least a dozen viruses competing.

Re:Improving security

[sqrt(2)]

XP updates automatically even if it's not validated. Only certain things like DirectX, IE7, WMP11 require validation (interesting that none of my illegal* installs ever failed to validate anyway). Security patches are automatic for everyone, pirate or not. I believe the default setting is to download them automatically and inform the user when they're ready to be installed. This would be the same no matter where they got their copy, unless the user changes that setting.

*computer came with a copy of XP, complete with every piece of software the OEM decided I needed so I reformatted and reinstalled with a clean copy of XP Pro.

This is just a ploy..

[GonzoTech]

.. just wait, I see a lot of thrown chairs.

It's a trap!

[Anonymous Coward]

Paging the itsatrap tag, seems appropriate here...

Ummm...

[Anonymous Coward]

In this situation using "her" is a grammatically correct due to the limitations of the English language lacking a third-person non-gender-based identifier seen in other languages. It helps being a multilingual minority in the United States. I guess the worst bit is teaching the locals how to speak and write their own language.

Re:Ummm...

[fnord_uk]

You might wish to consider the use of the word "their" under these cicrumstances.

same wit kb repository

[da5idnetlimit.com]

it's a lot more work, but you can download all the updates manually, too...

Yaaar!

[valkabo]

Yaar Matey! Just let us board ye' ship and we promise! We won't steal ye rum!

definitely needs more details

[poetmatt]

details are a bit sketchy. According to the actual microsoft partner website it seems that the license is not for vista or anything, just for XP. Which is completely pointless since you can download updates without validating your system anyway, not to mention shady depending on more "hidden updates" that break features. Just get the list of updates that haven't been done and download. Voila.

In addition another of sketchy aspect is the questionable nature whether this will be used as a marketing tool for MSFT, aka "we sold xyz more copies of windows, even though we nobody really bought anything". They claim "40 million is lost in piracy" from their own bullshiat study which was debunked about a million times .

Why does it also talk about financing for the actual copies of XP that companies will receive won't be free, as they original stated? I suspect they will go after people who inquire but don't follow through.

Beware of ex Employees

[Anonymous Coward]

This happened at a former company of mine. They were happily misusing MS applications Office, windows, ect ( Ie one valid license installed on 20 computers). Then they laid off an employee who wasn't doing a very good job. As he was leaving the building, he swore he was going to snitch to the BSA. I recommended, as I always had, that we go legit as the risks were too great. But they didn't, he snitched, and the company had to pay a huge fine along with buying the licenses at full price and agree to internal audits at their cost.

So yeah this could have some benefit to companies.

Affiliate program?!?

[dotancohen]

I want in just to cash in on the affiliate program:

Resellers who push the Get Genuine Windows Agreement to customers will get a cut of any new license fees they generate

I love bandwagons!

[Godai]

I know it's trendy to clap our hands with glee that Vista is apparently not being taking up with the gusto Microsoft hoped, but what the hell does this story have to do with that?

In the latest sign that Microsoft expects to support its Windows XP operating system for the foreseeable future...

You know how Microsoft made their case for OOXML weaker by stacking the deck at every opportunity? It works that way for other things too. If something's wrong, don't keep tossing in arguments that are stupid, that undermines your case. Making comments like that make you seem peevish, and your opinion or argument suffers by association.

Re:I love bandwagons!

[mattgreen]

Hate to break it to you but a great majority of people here don't really believe in logical arguments. Most posts are emotional appeals that try to appeal to the consensus in the hope that they too can receive positive moderation and hence be viewed as important.

No, it's Judical Extortion.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called getting caught. You get a choice of pay up or go to court, unless their looking to make an example of someone.

WGA has never made a mistake and there is no chance an innocent user would get to be the example, now is there? Once you agree to audits that the EULA have already granted M$, there's no way the BSA will find all sorts of stupid things like that four year old "free" version of Paint Shop Pro. No, all is well in the friendly world of non free computing.

The more M$ pulls these stunts the happier free software users are. The only way to win the M$ game is to never play it.

Re:No, it's Judical Extortion.

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep up the good shilling, twitter.

Re:No, it's Judical Extortion.

[deniable]

I was talking about businesses who aren't getting stung by WG(D)A. These people have volume licenses that do allow audits and thus it's easy to go and ensure 'complete' compliance with licensing. I've never heard of personal licenses having audits in the EULA.

It almost reminds me of a song...

[Cleon]

Desperado, why don't you come to your senses...

It works on a couple of different levels. :P

In other, related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Florida state police department will now allow cocaine dealers to own coke, if they allow themselves to be searched and have arbitrary values of their assets seized, with each cop getting a small bonus. The commisioner stated that they will still be "actively perusing the sale and other distributions of cocaine".

Wait...this sounds...vaguely....familiar...somehow... Oh I know!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_racket

Re:Your Microsoft Account

[dotancohen]

MS should just offer them an Ubuntu download. Won't cost anyone a penny.

Dear Microsoft

[Sounder40]

An open letter to Microsoft:

Dear Microsoft, The reason I am stealing a copy of Windows XP in the first place is because I like [PhotoShop, Quicken, (insert your own app)] and I was too lazy to switch to something that doesn't require your over-encumbered OS. But now that you're forcing me to, I'll be more than glad to.

So kindly sod off and die.

Sincerely,

Joe Sixpack

That's what I would do. If I were actually running an illegal copy of Windows and got that offer from Microsoft; not that I am, mind you. But that's just me.

pyramid scheme?

[jgarra23]

It almost sounds like one of those referral-program schemes. Or I could be completely wrong.

Are they also going to let me continue running XP

[mmell]

under Xen?

Vista (as preinstalled on my Acer) horked within forty-five minutes of initial boot. The "PC Angel" software (which was supposed to do a reinstall from a hidden partition on the HDD) likewise barfed. After three weeks, I got the "Restore DVD's" from Acer, which likewise vomited. Long story short, Vista only stayed up long enough to get me registered, now it won't run at all.

Funny thing . . . I got ahold of a student version of XP Pro - ran it up in a Xen domain to prove that I could, then it failed to install directly onto the hardware. That's right - my dual-core AMD X64 machine with a SATA drive can't seem to handle Windows XP, but Xen (under OpenSuSE 10.2) can. WGA works, the virtual XP system is fully updated and ready to rock, but I still have a three year old copy of Doom III which I've never run because I don't have a platform to run it on! So far, I'm only out thirty bucks for Doom III (plus an OEM Vista license, whatever that's worth), but I find it mildly irritating that I have to run a pirate version of WinXP just to get back some of what Best Buy/Acer/Microsoft owe me. Oh, and don't think about calling any of the above for help - M$ doesn't want to hear about it (after all, they didn't sell me a Windows OS), Acer's tech support people in New Delhi don't speak English well enough to understand what I'm trying to tell them, and Best Buy's response was (quite correctly) to offer to give me my money back on the hardware as a warranty issue.

So . . . if I buy into this, will M$ continue to tell me that I have an OEM license and don't desserve support, or will they help me to actually get their software to install and run correctly (well, as correctly as M$ software runs, anyhow)?

I think I'll keep my eyepatch and cutlass, thank you - at least, I know that they work. Arrgh!

To some businesses,

[gillbates]

This makes sense. They don't want to think about license compliance. They'd rather just let Microsoft do the audit for them and send them a bill, than risk someone installing a few extra, unlicensed copies of XP, and getting a nastygram from the BSA. From the standpoint of executives, any time spent on non-core-business activities (i.e. license compliance) is wasted time and lost money.

Most businesses would rather hand MS a blank check and be done with the issue than spend time auditing their own systems. That audit takes time away from their employees that could be better spent on making sales, a better product, better customer service, etc...

Of course, if they used Linux they could do away with the whole license thing as well, but that would require thought on the part of their employees. And getting the employees in the average business to think is a lot more difficult than convincing the shareholders that a blank check to Microsoft is a good idea.

Re:Are they also going to let me continue running

[Anonymous Coward]

and the sata drive didnt give you a hint as to what the problem was installing windows xp?
hint - its the drivers, or lack thereof on the install disk.....

Preferential pricing?

[jabber]

It seems to me that people/companies who unknowingly pirate Windows are few and far between. Also, voluntary self-identification as a pirate, and exposure to future audits, doesn't seem like that good a deal. There has got to be an advantage of some sort to sway people to go through this program instead of just going out and buying a new and valid license.

In short, how much cheaper is it to self-id as a pirate and give MS a door into your infrastructure?

In super-short, what's in it for me?

botnets

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the botnets are composed mostly of *patched* MS Windows boxes. MS patches don't do a whole lot. Even leaving aside the problem that they often break more than they fix, they often fail to address a lot of problems. Read up on some of the security lists and you'll see that there's no foundation, beyond marketing, that the botnets are mostly unpatched systems.

Smells like Microsoft alright

[HangingChad]

Sounds like a way for VAR's to approach small to medium size companies with an offer to "get legal" on their software installs. Which arises from the assumption that all small to medium size companies are running some unlicensed copies of something. The VAR's get a piece of the action and Microsoft has plausible deniability. Oh, those darn VAR's! They're such scamps (wink-wink, nudge-nudge).

Reminds me of some of the things RIAA did. I could see VAR's dressing up like they're some type of investigator and showing up at some company unannounced, claiming the company might be running illegal software and this is their one chance to come clean or face legal action. Or maybe Microsoft tips them off because someone there is using a volume license key that doesn't belong to them. And it won't stop at OS software, I'm sure they'll audit everything. Workstations, servers, the whole enchilada. A VAR might be pimping for a number of different software companies.

To me this is more of a sign of how desperate Microsoft is to keep up their quarterly numbers. When they need numbers they go back to the well of their existing user base and squeeze. After all, that's free money. Collecting on what's already out there.

It seems so strange to me that companies take the most incredible crap from Microsoft. Switch already. If you can't handle the Linux tech stuff get a Mac.

Are they going to make it mandatory via clickthru?

[Marrow]

Exactly how am I going to know when I have "Agreed" to these audits?

code signing

[tepples]

AFAIK there's no legal way for Microsoft to force you not to use software from other vendors It's called code signing, and Microsoft has implemented it in its Xbox and Xbox 360 platforms. The legal backing behind this is the anti-circumvention provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and foreign counterparts.

Re:code signing

[darthflo]

Code signing is not a legal way to prohibit an enterprise from running whatever software they please to on their computers, it's a technical, legally backed way to prohibit a game console user from running unsigned software on their Microsoft game console.

By legal way I meant some kind of contract prohibiting whomever signed it from running anything non-Microsoft (and thus non-Genuine Advantage) on whatever kind of (usually non-msft) hardware said signer was using.

OffTopic: Yeah, Right

[Anonymous Coward]

This linguistics professor was lecturing the class.
  "In English," he explained, "a double negative forms a positive. In some languages, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative."
  "However," the professor continued, "there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative."
  Immediately, a voice from the back of the room piped up: "Yeah..... right...."

http://bash.org/?734797

Smoking pig?

[tepples]

What do you expect from an outfit whose logo is a pig smoking a joint? Whose logo is that? Microsoft doesn't really have a logo apart from its wordmark, and K5's FAQ states that its logo represents a failed bridge.

wait, I think I've heard this before

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't that make it shareware?

bkd

Re:Sometimes backfires.

[Technician]

but it would, invariably, result in revenue for Microsoft, so it would be worth-while for them.

Not always. Sometimes the move isn't as dramatic or as public as the story in the link below.

http://www.news.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.html

Often it is much more quiet as the gears start rolling. For me personally, this stuff is a major factor in why I avoid Microsoft EULA licenses and discovered the wonderful world of open standards and open source.

It started with WGA and product activation. I have way too many computers to keep up to date at retail prices. Due to the MS way of doing things, my family has 3 versions of MS Office. My old PIII has a copy of Office 97. It still has the OEM Windows 98 on it. (Don't fret, it's dual boot and only boots Windows for the GPS software which is Windows only) The Wife's XP machine has my copy of Office 2000 which was free from work. Her new laptop for her masters degree came with Vista. Through my employer's homeware agreement with Microsoft we picked up a copy of Office 2007 for a nominal fee of about $20. It is valid only while I am employed with the company. The compatibility issues between versions is a pain in the backside, but providing the same version on all machines is way too expensive.

On the other side, all my machines have Open Office. The license is such that I am permitted to install it on every machine in my home (and give away copies to friends). Do you see a trend here? Incompatibile versions and single install licenses or a a site wide license so all machines can have the same version for the home.

As the Open Document Format becomes standardized it should be obvious to anyone why Open Office and other ODF compatible office software is going to erode Microsoft's market. Tightening the screws is only going to accelerate the adoption of alternatives.

If you have more then 2 computers (laptop and desktop) because you have a family, keeping them all in sync with per seat software is expensive. You either have to decide to spend a lot, or figure out which machine gets the office software. With the competition, everyone can have a legal copy on their desktop and laptop.

After introduction to Sum Microsystems Star Office (home site license for all machines) and then Linux and Open Office, The Microsoft License doesn't look very good for a family SOHO. I can deal with slightly less mature software instead of the big dent in the bottom line.

When I truly need the Microsoft product due to some requirement, I can borrow the wife's laptop. For everything else, Open Office is what I am using. It is on both my laptops, my kids machine, my daughters laptop, my main machine, and my old PIII Dual boot machine. This is the migration that MS can't stop.

Re:Sometimes backfires.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, well, obviously you never tried to do a mail merge or embed an image in a spreadsheet. The only reasons I run microsoft is for Office, and Pokerstars.

The Atrocity Archives

[Anonymous Coward]

Haven't I read this story before?

So how big is the discount

[mdarksbane]

So how I read this is...

If I am using pirated software and want to stop, I can either

1) Buy a legitimate copy of windows, replace my pirated software, and have no one ever know I was being illegal.

2) Buy a legitimate copy of windows, replace my pirated software, and be forced to submit microsoft audits any time they want.

So how big is the discount to make the second option sound better, ever?

Pledge? To Microsoft??

[Anonymous Coward]

We can see it now? ... Microsoft standing upon the soapbox of corporate morality singing to the jury, "hey, we gave them a chance .. chances actually..." as they prosecute man, woman and child ala MPAA/RIAA in another last ditch attempt to remain viable, to collect at least some additional money.

And of course Microsoft has the resources to do this. After all they have one of the grandest legal departments in the world far surpassing in effectiveness and capability anything their software development divisions have ever accomplished. Or probably ever will.

Not that I advocate pirating Microsoft operating systems and programs. I do not defend the practice. I acknowledge it occurs with minimal effect to Microsofts bottom line since acts of piracy serve to bolster the company's monopoly status giving them greater leverage in the market place.

As a value proposition Microsoft products cost to much in times historically when it was advantageous to use them. Now the liability of using Microsoft products far outweigh any possible advantage.

Once again Microsofts intentions are laid bare before us. To eradicate illegal installations of the company's software in an attempt to uphold the purity and the profitability of their products. And to accomplish that they need to invade your privacy which in a nutshell, is the bottom line. Your privacy versus some marginal, potential, wishful improvement to Microsofts floundering profitability.

And you relinquish your privacy, knowingly or not, in establishing your innocence or guilt via Microsofts serendipitous investigations as precipitated by your own computer!. What? You didn't read the fine print?

There is no question that Microsoft has mechanisms in place to support their intentions. They hardly need to resort to clandestine updates to ones system to accomplish that although demonstrated that they can and have. Nor is there any limits to what Microsoft can do with your computer. They care not about your privacy and they have the ability to exploit your Microsoft operated computer in its entirety. In essence Microsoft has created the greatest for profit intelligence gathering network in the history of man.

At a whim, all can be laid bare at the feet of Microsoft for corporate perusal and exploitation, enabled via rubric devolved from the guise of catching a handful of pirates who themselves served as cornerstones to Microsofts monopoly.

No, I cannot advocate pirating Microsoft operating systems and programs any more than I can advocate using them legitimately. To borrow a catch phrase from another venue, Microsoft exists to 'serve man.' Their software is the cookbook.

Research Labs refuse to install Win servers

[WillAffleckUW]

just because we have a few dual-boot Linux/Win machines in our labs, doesn't mean we agree to host MSFT audit software on a dedicated non-Linux server, when most of those dual-boot computers are running Linux 80 percent of the time.

You want audits? Ship disks and boxes when you sell us software. Then we'll talk.

Re:Sometimes backfires.

[Technician]

Yeah, well, obviously you never tried to do a mail merge or embed an image in a spreadsheet.

I've never wanted to embed an image in a spreadsheet. That's what Power Point is for. I don't need photos to keep track of my stocks, loan, or gas mileage. I use email to keep in touch with family and friends. I don't run a mass mailing. My wife is more into the upscale power user stuff. That is why she is the one with MS Office. For the rest of the family, Open Office or an older version of MS Office is fine. If we have a super need for one of the features in the newer version of MS Office, we do have a machine that will take care of that. It is inconvenient that MS Office is permitted on only one machine (Sometimes 2 for desktop and laptop), so for the most of the rest of the stuff we do, Open Office is good enough. It was Microsoft's business plan to do either Enterprise Licensing or Single Seat licensing. This left a big hole for SOHO site licenses which the GNU LGPL software takes care of very nicely.

I share my Internet, printers, file server, fax, and now my OS and Office Suite with the entire home office.

Here is my cunning plan:

[Ant P.]

1. Install XP Home on 1 PC, Linux on any others
2. Replace the bootsplash on the one XP PC with the one from XP Pro
3. Waste auditors' time with your 100% fake XP Professional
4. Sell unused discounted XP Pro for full price
5. Profit!!!
(optional 6. Piss them off even more when they return by removing that last windows install)

I've never been on the wrong end of such an audit.

[jimicus]

So perhaps someone who has can enlighten me:

1. How do they do the audit? Do they install some sort of software or what? What if my systems are locked down tight, do they expect me to give them a user account with admin rights? Or visit every system in turn?
2. Who pays the auditors? Because as far as I can tell, if I'm going to have to buy licenses for everything anyway, and they expect me to pay the auditors, I may as well just buy the licensing and have done with it.
3. No business on Earth is 100% compliant. Mainly because the goalposts are set to make it impossibly difficult.

Example 1: Adobe let you upgrade to Creative Suite CS2 from a variety of other packages. But you need a license for those other packages. Let's say you find an invoice and license documentation for the package you upgraded from - and find that it was itself an upgrade of some earlier package. But that was bought so long ago that you've destroyed the invoices. Most countries limit how long you have to keep such documentation for tax reasons, but there's no such limitation for software licensing.

Example 2: The Microsoft SQL Server 2003 License. I'm not going to reproduce it here; google it and read it. First person who can explain it in plain English in less than 3 paragraphs gets a beer.

Given this, and assuming your level of compliance is otherwise pretty good, do they give you the opportunity to say "Really? We've missed out a single £500 license? Not to worry, we'll buy one now" or do they immediately sic the attack dogs on you for all they can get?

Must use only genuine MS software?

[RealGrouchy]

To qualify, users of illegitimate versions of Windows XP Pro must pledge to use only genuine Microsoft software So... no Firefox or OOo, then?

- RG>

Re:I've never been on the wrong end of such an aud

[Don't be a Zealot]

Earn credibility...research your examples. There is no such thing as Microsoft SQL Server 2005. I don't want your beer. Also, this is for people/companies who STEAL software, not for people/companies who are "a few licenses" out of compliance.

No big deal

[^_^x]

At first it sounded worrying, especially with the recent WGA outage and subsequent OS failures. ...but it sounds like it's squarely aimed at businesses, so what's the big deal? It's a way for businesses with poorly tracked licenses to go legit without penalty. Nice - we could use that at work probably.

They generally don't care about the home user since that's not where 200 copies of Windows slip through the cracks...

Re:I've never been on the wrong end of such an aud

[jimicus]

Earn credibility... read the post you're replying to. There is such a thing as Microsoft SQL Server 2003, which was what I posted. Also, at least one company has been on the wrong end of an audit despite being little more than "a few licenses" out of compliance - eg. http://www.news.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.html - I don't know how big the company is but if it's any significant size, "a few dozen licenses" is nothing.

Re:Your Microsoft Account

[ADHDYoshi]

I read the title as "Microsoft Marketing to Ass Pirates".

Audit me.. Please?

[Anonymous Coward]

Inviting a big corporate entity with extremely deep pockets to audit you is unwise. It would even be unwise if you've been trying to only use legitimate, legal copies of their software for a decade -- what happens if they decide you have something unlicensed just because you can't produce the decade-old license that fell behind the filing cabinet? The legal costs for even one little infraction would far outweigh the cost to just go out and buy legal copies of every piece of MS osftware on your own at retail prices.

Re:I've never been on the wrong end of such an aud

[Don't be a Zealot]

LOL...

No sir...there simply is NO PRODUCT from Microsoft called Microsoft SQL Server 2003. Sorry.

Also, a "few dozen" is hardly "a few", unless we are talking about a few dozen out of thousands of licenses. When the BSA is involved, it is because of EGREGIOUS issues involving compliance. THe company I work for was involved with the BSA and nothing of what "Mr. Ball" detailed had occurred. THere were no "damages" and all we had to do was "true up" what was missing, which was more than just "a few dozen" missing licenses. I question the math Mr. Ball used and I also question what really happened on his side. This is a one-side-only story.

Re:Are they going to make it mandatory via clickth

[Genda]

...Exactly how am I going to know when I have "Agreed" to these audits?

When you find yourself bent at the waist, suddenly staring at your ankles, while a trained professional from M$ demostrates for you in excrutiating detail, one or more of the more intimate aspects of the M$ EULA!

- Microsoft and Buggery... like Like George and Dick... they were just made for each other!

Re:Are they also going to let me continue running

[KozmoStevnNaut]

You are aware that Doom III runs under Linux and FreeBSD as well as Windows?

http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/linux/doom/

is this really new?

[jnf]

I'm not positive this is a new program, possibly a modification of an existing program as I seem to recall getting a 50% discount on an XP Pro disk maybe two to three years ago by letting microsoft/windows update detect that my version of windows was not legit, and then turning myself in. In doing so I had to promise not to do it again and fill out a check-box questionaire about where I obtained the software. I paid them the $150 or whatever it was (which I think is a fair price) and I got a legit copy of XP. I've never encountered any of the licensing issues despite installing the OS on at least half a dozen computers over the years (although to the best of my recollection never concurrently on more than one machine), and in general I've never had a problem.

only genuine Microsoft software

[Anonymous Coward]

am I misreading the article or does "only genuine Microsoft software" mean they'll sue you if an audit turns up some boxen running Linux, or OSX, or Firefox, or OO.o?

they must be really shitting their pants over in Redmond, huh?

Tried disabling the onboard SATA...

[mmell]

Even unplugged the thing. No dice.

That's okay - I'm used to this sort of idiocy from M$ products - just like I'm used to crappy A/V hardware support from Linux (personally, I like OpenSuSE - very well engineered on the whole). *Sigh*

That wasn't my point . . .

[mmell]

If I wanted to run DOOM III under Linux, I'd have bought (downloaded?) DOOM III for Linux.

My hard-earned is gone, where's my value?

Re:That wasn't my point . . .

[KozmoStevnNaut]

You hard-earned for Doom III is right there in the box. There is no particular Linux edition, only a set of CDs (or a DVD) with data files, which just so happens to have a Windows installer included. How this prevents you from grabbing the Linux installer and using that, I have no idea.

But the OEM Vista not working on the hardware it was provided with is either an Acer problem or a Microsoft problem. I would keep bugging them until they give up.

No way - WGA already damaged my setup

[Anonymous Coward]

I have refused to install WGA on my machine because of the risks it generates. When I was using the media player 10 it announced I could upgrade to 11. It downloaded the files, but then started with requiring a WGA check before it proceeded. So I can't roll back because it nuked the old setup (with no option of recovery), and I can't run v11 because it requires me to risk the stability of my system - something it did NOT tell me before it upgraded.

I think a nice chat with MS support is in order, because I'll file this with Trading Standards tomorrow. There's no way I'll be blackmailed into WGA - I've installed VideoLAN instead..

(and my other systems don't run Windows anyway :-).

Oh, and I don't plan to be on the phone too long - if they think they can make it hard we'll just add that to the complaint.

What happend when they find other Illegal warez

[Anonymous Coward]

I would think the point of this is to get in there and find the unlicensed version of 2003 Server, MSSQL, etc in the audit, then charge you full price to get them legit. After all if you're using a pirated copy of XP why would the rest of the software be legit?

c'mon, people, mod us both down into oblivion

[cp.tar]

Not really. At one time trip to the store, and then I have the CD anytime I need after? No, its not true, its a very lame excuse.

Even though the pirated version is already patched and activated, and does not complain if you change your MB?

I could point to you and any COMPANY and say the same thing. Whats your point?

My point is that you do not understand why they tolerate piracy, especially home piracy.

And why they are developing anti-piracy measures only now.

If I were making software, it would be under the GPL or some similar licence. Copy it all you want.

Good luck feeding your family that way.

Many people do.

I, however, am not primarily a programmer; my career choice is a bit different.

Its a waste of time yet you claim its working?

No. Learn to read; I guess English is your first language.

Hmm.. interesting logic there. And I feel really sorry for those that stole something having it not work anymore.

Copyright infringement is not theft.

Moron.

Yes, you could, and many people do. Oh, and then there's also VOIP now too. But those are all relatively recent, which is why the telcos are a monopoly (and still are, because they own the lines, something YOU cannot change).

Well, in Croatia, the telco didn't own the lines until they took them. And though disputes are not over yet, they use them like they own them and cut other companies' lines, just like MS got rid of their competition.

And by this logic, I can't change MS's monopolly either.

Ahh, so that justifies your stealing. Lets be real here, others can compete, there were OSes long before DOS or Windows. This also isn't about what MS has done, its about you attempting to justify your stealing.

You are really the first example of a real asshole I've seen on /.

Learn how to fscking read.

You act as if a majority of home or business users pirate. That's simply not true. They pay for windows when they buy their computer with Windows already installed.

Not around here, they don't.

Unless they're so clueless that not even their friends have a clue.

So that means its ok to steal from them?

Oh, I wish I could steal from them. I'm merely infringing their copyright, though.

I wish I could do some real damage apart from switching people over to Linux or Mac.

Can you punch someone in the gut because they commited a crime once?

No, but if they're close enough, I can punch them in the face if they get on my nerves.

Ya you did. You're using software you didn't pay for.

Still you haven't proved that it's theft.

Guess what: not even lawyers have, so far. That's why it's got a different name.

Software which is BENFITING YOU, but which you have not given any compensation for.

Not much of a benefit, really. Much more pain, and I'm no masochist to actually not only enjoy and benefit from pain, but also pay for it.

With everything else that someone works to produce, you have the option to buy it or go without.

And, if you ask Sony, to buy it over and over and over again.

You stole a product, you're dishonest.

Pray tell, how do you even find the On switch on your PC?

Yup, and you even said you could have bought the student license.

Well, you win teh internetz.

What I understand is that a company is out the money they would have gotten if you were honest.

Oh, no, they wouldn't have.

Besides, the Windows EULA clearly states that the software is not fit for any specific purpose or whatever; how do I benefit fr

Re:c'mon, people, mod us both down into oblivion

[plague3106]

Even though the pirated version is already patched and activated, and does not complain if you change your MB?

I don't change out my MB every two weeks, so no, its not a big deal.

My point is that you do not understand why they tolerate piracy, especially home piracy.

And why they are developing anti-piracy measures only now.

I seems to be they tolerated it because until recently there wasn't any good way to stop it. WinXP was the first OS that started to try to address the issue. Win2k was their first OS really designed to be on the internet.

Many people do.

Many more do not; many, like myself, don't even bother attempting to, because I'm afraid piracy wouldn't allow me to earn back as much as I put in.

I, however, am not primarily a programmer; my career choice is a bit different.

So then plese tell me, what course exactly requires Windows on your home computer if you're not programming? You already said you use open office. I don't know why you'd wnat to be a windows network admin (and even then, I'm not sure how much homework you could get out of such a class).

Copyright infringement is not theft.

Moron.

You've deprived someone of money they would have gotten if you didn't pirate it. I don't care how often you repeat that to me or yourself, to make yourself not feel guilty, that doesn't make it true.

Well, in Croatia, the telco didn't own the lines until they took them. And though disputes are not over yet, they use them like they own them and cut other companies' lines, just like MS got rid of their competition.

MS did no such thing; there are always workarounds in software, and agreessive licensing is not criminal. Theft of the lines certainly is though. But your telco and MS are not the same. But you tell yourself whatever you need to to sleep at night.

And by this logic, I can't change MS's monopolly either.

But it doesn't matter. You're almost MS free already! So just give up the games and get rid of Windows. Drop your course or pay for a license.

You are really the first example of a real asshole I've seen on /.

Learn how to fscking read.

Aww, starting to feel bad about your stealing? Perhaps you should learn spelling. I'm not goign to sugar coat anything for you, sorry if it hurts your feelings and I'm calling you out.. but your choices are your choices, and you'll have to live with them.

Not around here, they don't.

Unless they're so clueless that not even their friends have a clue.

Ahh, a nation of criminals. I'll be sure never to visit.

Oh, I wish I could steal from them. I'm merely infringing their copyright, though.

How much would a license cost you? That's how much you've taken from MS (or any other software vendor who's products you pirate).

I wish I could do some real damage apart from switching people over to Linux or Mac.

There you go! You are doing some damage; you're not giving them money, but you're doing it legally! Good for you! Too bad you won't do the same. (Oh, MAC isn't any better than MS, BTW.)

No, but if they're close enough, I can punch them in the face if they get on my nerves.

And it'd stil be illegal, imagine that.

Pray tell, how do you even find the On switch on your PC?

Hmm, well I'm not the one too stupid to move out of a country filled with criminals and find good employment. Unlike you, I've actually already completed my degree program as well, and people pay me because I am smart. Oh and honest too.

Well, you win teh internetz.

I guess you are realizing you don't really have a point.

Oh, no, they wouldn't have.

Well you REQUIRE it for your course right? So yes, they would have.

Besides, the Windows EULA clearly states that the software is not fit for any specific purpose or whatever; how do I benefit

Re:c'mon, people, mod us both down into oblivion

[cp.tar]

I don't change out my MB every two weeks, so no, its not a big deal.

Yes, you only get fscked in the ass once in a while, no big deal.

I still don't see how you fail to see how much more convenient it is to pirate Windows: it's cheaper, and it's the legitimate users who have to prove they're legitimate.

Nobody ever bothers the rest of us; when Windows Update tells several thousand legitimate Windows users they're pirates, we who use pirated versions are not annoyed at all. And you are the ones who'd paid money for it, too.

I seems to be they tolerated it because until recently there wasn't any good way to stop it. WinXP was the first OS that started to try to address the issue. Win2k was their first OS really designed to be on the internet.

No, they tolerated it because it helped them establish their monopolly.

Now that they are entrenched, they can start milking even more money.

Many more do not; many, like myself, don't even bother attempting to, because I'm afraid piracy wouldn't allow me to earn back as much as I put in.

That means you don't know how to offer something beyond the code.

So then plese tell me, what course exactly requires Windows on your home computer if you're not programming? You already said you use open office. I don't know why you'd wnat to be a windows network admin (and even then, I'm not sure how much homework you could get out of such a class).

Some idiotic obligatory course on web design or whatever required MS Visual Web Developer. Or whatever it's called.

Try installing that on something not WinXP SP2 or newer.

You've deprived someone of money they would have gotten if you didn't pirate it. I don't care how often you repeat that to me or yourself, to make yourself not feel guilty, that doesn't make it true.

Check your fscking laws.

MS did no such thing; there are always workarounds in software, and agreessive licensing is not criminal. Theft of the lines certainly is though. But your telco and MS are not the same. But you tell yourself whatever you need to to sleep at night.

Yeah, as if you'd know...

But it doesn't matter. You're almost MS free already! So just give up the games and get rid of Windows. Drop your course or pay for a license.

Now you've opened yourself for a whole barrage of anti-American flaming, but I'll let it pass.

Mainly because you aren't worth that much of my time.

Aww, starting to feel bad about your stealing? Perhaps you should learn spelling. I'm not goign to sugar coat anything for you, sorry if it hurts your feelings and I'm calling you out.. but your choices are your choices, and you'll have to live with them.

I'm sorry, what did I spell wrongly?

BTW, check your spelling and grammar before even attempting to comment on some foreigner's.

You, sir, are the very stereotype of an American asshole.

Ahh, a nation of criminals. I'll be sure never to visit.

Please, don't. We've already got too many tourists for our road capacity as it is.

And the morons working in tourism still haven't figured out what to offer those tourists.

How much would a license cost you? That's how much you've taken from MS (or any other software vendor who's products you pirate).

Ah, yes, fictive losses...

There you go! You are doing some damage; you're not giving them money, but you're doing it legally! Good for you! Too bad you won't do the same. (Oh, MAC isn't any better than MS, BTW.)

Oh, great; you don't even seem to know the difference between MAC and a Mac.

Other than that, you're not even making sense any more.

An

Re:c'mon, people, mod us both down into oblivion

[plague3106]

Yes, you only get fscked in the ass once in a while, no big deal.

I see you bolded typos, where-as you continue to to mispell words. Its FUCKED, not fscked... unless running a linux filesystem repair tool has something to do with spelling. Anyway, I've had to call, um, once, ever. So yea, not really a big deal. I don't expect it to be a big deal either, considering I bought the full retail version, which DOES allow me to move to another computer.

I still don't see how you fail to see how much more convenient it is to pirate Windows: it's cheaper, and it's the legitimate users who have to prove they're legitimate.

I never argued it was cheaper; its ALWAYS cheaper to steal. That a no brainer, wouldn't you agree? I've already addressed your activation argument.

Nobody ever bothers the rest of us; when Windows Update tells several thousand legitimate Windows users they're pirates, we who use pirated versions are not annoyed at all. And you are the ones who'd paid money for it, too.

Its never happened to a vast majority, and did you consider that perhaps those users WERE pirating it, although they thought they got a genuine license? How would you really know if some ISV was illegally putting the same key on every machine? You wouldn't.

No, they tolerated it because it helped them establish their monopolly.

Ah, a mind reader now?

That means you don't know how to offer something beyond the code.

What, I should include comic books in my software as well? Obviously code has value, not everyone can write it.

Some idiotic obligatory course on web design or whatever required MS Visual Web Developer. Or whatever it's called.

Try installing that on something not WinXP SP2 or newer.

Oh, i see. You think all future products should be supported on all older products. Should they make it work on Win95 too? DOS? WinXP is seven years old at this point.. I see no reason to support anything older than that. Hell, I can't even get a car to support my car after three years without paying.

Check your fscking laws.

I'm not using legal terminology; stealing is depriving someone of something of value. Lawyer can quibble over the diffence, but in the end its the same thing... depriving someone of something of value.

Yeah, as if you'd know...

I do actually; I'm much older than you, I was around during MS' rise.

Now you've opened yourself for a whole barrage of anti-American flaming, but I'll let it pass.

Mainly because you aren't worth that much of my time.

Again you have no real counter argument. Its not worth your time to continue bashing me? You already have. BTW, its FUCK, not fsck, as I've written earlier.

BTW, check your spelling and grammar before even attempting to comment on some foreigner's.

You, sir, are the very stereotype of an American asshole.

You misspelt fuck multiple times. I've made some typos. A bit of a difference there. My grammar is fine thank you, but I don't expect someone that never lived in the US to understand. But I suppose YOUR language has not changed at all in the last 200 years, has it?

You're rationalizing again; I bring up points, you fail miserably to address them, so you feel the need to stero-type you. I've done no such thing, YOU yourself said most people in your country steal.

Please, don't. We've already got too many tourists for our road capacity as it is.

And the morons working in tourism still haven't figured out what to offer those tourists.

Hmm, for a poor country I'd think you'd want tourists so that they would add to your economy.

Oh, great; you don't even seem to know the difference between MAC and a Mac.

Other than that, you're not even making sense any more.

Guess you never saw an Apple computer when the Macs first came out. But I guess you need filler, since you don't really have an argument whi

Re:c'mon, people, mod us both down into oblivion

[cp.tar]

I see you bolded typos, where-as you continue to to mispell words.

Ah, yes. Typos.

The eternal excuse of the illiterate.

I know it's hard to accept that a mere foreign "thief" is better educated in your own language than you are, but don't feel too bad; I could point out a dozen more such foreigners... oh, wait...

Its FUCKED, not fscked... unless running a linux filesystem repair tool has something to do with spelling.

It has to do something with pronunciation.

Please turn in your geek card, it has been revoked.

Anyway, I've had to call, um, once, ever. So yea, not really a big deal.

Well, I've had to call, um, nonce, never.

And you are among the lucky ones, mayhaps. Yes, there are millions more just like you, just like there are millions more people not born somewhere where they'd starve to death before turning 10.

Microsoft's anti-piracy measures primarily give lots of grief to their legal customers. I wonder how long before they turn towards something more Red Hat-like.

I don't expect it to be a big deal either, considering I bought the full retail version, which DOES allow me to move to another computer.

Good for you.

Not all of us can afford that.

Having to deal with Microsoft's de facto monopoly, we do what we can.

I never argued it was cheaper; its ALWAYS cheaper to steal. That a no brainer, wouldn't you agree?

No, I wouldn't.

It's not cheaper to steal - or infringe copyright, for that matter - if there is a substantial risk of getting caught. For instance, if you're running a business.

Now, I'd never run a business with a pirated copy of Windows; that would be plainly stupid. However, since nobody ever comes after home users, I read it as a tacit permission to use such a copy at home.

Yeah, I know companies don't want me to do that, but I don't want them to do many things either, but I'm out of luck. And so are they.

I've already addressed your activation argument.

Some hassle > no hassle. Period.

Its never happened to a vast majority,

But the minority that had it happen to them were quite inconvenienced, although they'd paid.

and did you consider that perhaps those users WERE pirating it, although they thought they got a genuine license?

Um... maybe because Microsoft admitted their fault?

How would you really know if some ISV was illegally putting the same key on every machine? You wouldn't.

Oh, great... so even if I pay up, I cannot be sure I got a legit copy.

Nice.

Do you see now why it's more convenient to pirate?

Ah, a mind reader now?

I don't need to be; by analysing an individual's behaviour, you can analyse their motives, intentions and tactics.

It's not much different with companies.

What, I should include comic books in my software as well? Obviously code has value, not everyone can write it.

Well, good code has value; every monkey can write bad code.

OK, perl code at least.

Oh, i see. You think all future products should be supported on all older products.

No, you don't see. I think a course covering the bare basics of an area shouldn't require a proprietary tool running on a proprietary system.

And trust me, the tools we'd used were overkill.

Hell, I can't even get a car to support my car after three years without paying.

Wow, you have your car supported by another car? How interesting.

OTOH, you do have a warranty, and nowhere in the contract does it say that this car is not fit for any specific purpose, including driving it on va

Re:c'mon, people, mod us both down into oblivion

[plague3106]

Ah, yes. Typos. The eternal excuse of the illiterate.

What, you never hit the wrong key while typing? Sorry I'm not as perfect as you. And personally, for a slashdot post, its not worth my time to go back and proofread anything. Especially when its just a post to a crook.

It has to do something with pronunciation. Please turn in your geek card, it has been revoked.

Ha! Says the thief that isn't even out of college. Fsck is typically pronounced F Suck. Notice, its not run together. Its ok though, I know the only exposure to UNIX that you've had is Linux, its not your fault you're young and stupid.

Well, I've had to call, um, nonce, never.

All this badgering over spelling and you've not written two things which aren't even words. You may think five minutes is a big deal, but its really not. Your argument is crap.

Microsoft's anti-piracy measures primarily give lots of grief to their legal customers. I wonder how long before they turn towards something more Red Hat-like.

If that were the case, people would be switching in droves. As it is though, MS sales are doing fine. People may not like Vista, but they're still buying XP, and not using RedHat. Besides, I'd rather take MS' "inconvenience" of activation of the nightmare that is RPM hell.

Good for you. Not all of us can afford that. Having to deal with Microsoft's de facto monopoly, we do what we can.

But you don't have to deal with it, I've given you perfectly valid reasons you don't need MS' software. Hell, I'll give you another one; run VWD under WINE! Or use SharpDevelop or one of the other Linux based .Net IDEs. There are ways for you to be legal, you just choose not to.

No, I wouldn't. It's not cheaper to steal - or infringe copyright, for that matter - if there is a substantial risk of getting caught. For instance, if you're running a business.

Its not? How much did it cost for your pirate copy of Windows? Running a business has nothing to do with you, since you're not running once. Your risk of being caught is low, so it is cheaper. You'd be surprised how many businesses run pirated software as well; its a big problem in China, for example.

Now, I'd never run a business with a pirated copy of Windows; that would be plainly stupid. However, since nobody ever comes after home users, I read it as a tacit permission to use such a copy at home.

I'm sure you could get away with shoplifting too, or murder. But does that mean that because you've gotten away with it, its ok?

But the minority that had it happen to them were quite inconvenienced, although they'd paid.

And MS quickly fixed the problem, didn't they? Of course, if people were just honest they wouldn't need to buy such systems to try and stop piracy, would they?

Oh, great... so even if I pay up, I cannot be sure I got a legit copy. Nice. Do you see now why it's more convenient to pirate?

And if you legitimately didn't know you were using pirated software until their tool told you, they give you a legal to use key when you report the person that sold you the pirated copy. Again, that's a small, one time process.

Well, good code has value; every monkey can write bad code. OK, perl code at least.

Well you seem to think its good enough, since you're not willing to say no to using it. Perl? Funny. I can see you've never programmed anything worthwhile in your life.

No, you don't see. I think a course covering the bare basics of an area shouldn't require a proprietary tool running on a proprietary system. And trust me, the tools we'd used were overkill.

Yet your complaint was that it didn't work on Windows 2000. If you feel that way, drop the course. Or run the freely available VWD on WINE on Linux.

Ah, so you're redefining words...

Well, I'm no native speaker, but the first definition says something to the point "unlawfully taking som

Re:c'mon, people, mod us both down into oblivion

[cp.tar]

What, you never hit the wrong key while typing?

Sure did. But not as... consistently as you.

Sorry I'm not as perfect as you. And personally, for a slashdot post, its not worth my time to go back and proofread anything. Especially when its just a post to a crook.

Yet another typical excuse of the illiterate.

Either you are literate or you are not. If you are, mistakes such as its vs. it's are something you just don't make.

Ha! Says the thief that isn't even out of college.

And thus called by a man probably twice my age who still hasn't learned how to read and write properly.

Fsck is typically pronounced F Suck. Notice, its not run together.

And what, language does not change?

Its ok though, I know the only exposure to UNIX that you've had is Linux, its not your fault you're young and stupid.

I grew up around Solaris.

Shows how much you know.

All this badgering over spelling and you've not written two things which aren't even words.

I haven't written two things which aren't even words.

Either you're talking nonsense, or you're using double negatives.

You may think five minutes is a big deal, but its really not. Your argument is crap.

Next time you have to crap really badly, and the only toilet is occupied, meditate upon your words. Five minutes is not really a big deal.

And that's only if you don't have to wait for 20 minutes until someone on the other end answers your call.

If that were the case, people would be switching in droves.

If only that were the case, your logic might be fine. There are other factors, however.

As it is though, MS sales are doing fine. People may not like Vista, but they're still buying XP, and not using RedHat. Besides, I'd rather take MS' "inconvenience" of activation of the nightmare that is RPM hell.

Because DLL hell is stuff of the myths, right.

But you don't have to deal with it, I've given you perfectly valid reasons you don't need MS' software. Hell, I'll give you another one; run VWD under WINE! Or use SharpDevelop or one of the other Linux based .Net IDEs. There are ways for you to be legal, you just choose not to.

When I needed it, VWD would not install under Wine. And it was required. So your arguments, although I wish they were true and that everything ran under Wine, are - as you'd so nicely put it - crap.

Its not? How much did it cost for your pirate copy of Windows?

Translated to dollars, I think the (blank) CD cost me a quarter or thereabouts.

Running a business has nothing to do with you, since you're not running once.

Nor twice.

But you said ALWAYS, in nice big caps as well... so no, not always.

It's so easy to be right when your opponent is overgeneralizing...

Your risk of being caught is low, so it is cheaper. You'd be surprised how many businesses run pirated software as well; its a big problem in China, for example.

If I were talking from the Chinese perspective, I would be talking different still; however, I'm not, so I'm not.

And I'm not surprised; it's a problem here as well, though not as much as it used to be.

I'm sure you could get away with shoplifting too, or murder. But does that mean that because you've gotten away with it, its ok?

Now, now, you're flattering me.

Though I do know a girl who routinely gets "free beers" in one store... can't really blame her, though; if she keeps walking out of the store with eight

Updates require WGA validation, by my test

[athloi]

XP updates automatically even if it's not validated.

This may have changed. On a friend's pirated copy I turned updates on this last weekend, and then went to the updates web page. After it scanned the machine, the Microsoft Windows Update page demanded we go through a validation process. We could not go further without the validation. Unless someone has evidence otherwise, I think this is how almost all computer users will try to update, and they cannot with the WGA check if they're using pirated or hacked copies of Windows.

I think this is a losing strategy for Microsoft, but that's another issue. Most people want a computer to work and view the operating system as part of what they paid for that computer. If it isn't on a machine, or they upgrade, they find someone with a copy and use it. I think it makes more sense for Microsoft to use the operating system as a way of opening a contract with the user, and then to sell them more services and products, much like artists giving away MP3s makes them rich and fat on tshirt sales.