>See, that's just the problem. It takes lawyers and pedantic linguaphiles like you to "not get it." > >For the average person, "copying" a DVD would imply being able to *play* the copy.
Yes. I agree completely. You are 100% correct. For the average person, the two meanings overlap unclearly. This is precisely my point. If the people who DO understand the difference (The EFF, in this example) don't take pains to make sure their meanings are clear, then what chance does the average guy have of really understanding what's going on?
And as to you refering to me as "pedantic," by which I will assume you ment that I was overly concerned with trivial details, let me say that the Devil is in those details. Let's take a trip in time back to the day before DeCSS was available in any form. Here, we see Johnny Pirate, inserting his DVD into his computer.... ripping the encoded contents onto his hard drive... and Lookie! Watching the DVD on his Hard Drive
"But!" you say, "It's still encoded!" Of course it is. It's the PLAYER that does the decoding. As long as you have a working player, you don't need a decoded file. And all DVD-ROM drives come with players... That work under Windows. If you buy that exact same drive, and try to watch your DVD on a non-Windows platform, you're SOL. Or at least you were, until DeCSS came along.
So, now that we've cleared that up, I trust you won't feel the need to be "pedantic" about my spelling, or anything else so crucial.
"In the Universal v. Reimerdes case, discussed above, the court held that section 1201 bans DeCSS software. This software decrypts DVD movies, making it possible to copy them to a PC." (Italics Mine)
You've always been able to copy them. It's PLAYING them that's been the problem. If even the EFF can be confused on this point, what chance do we have to get Joe American to understand?
Did you even READ my post? A Golumb ruler has NOTHING to DO with crypto. Distributed.net works on MANY problems at the same time. Yes, it's got some crypto cracking going on right now. I don't do any of that. I have my node set to only do OGR blocks. A Golumb ruler is a ruler with no two sets of marks the same distance apart as any other two marks. Finding the shortest ruler for X number of marks is the kind of thing mankind only needs to do once, then the information will be available forever. On their website, they give examples of the kinds of science that can make use of this information. Like building radio arrays for... oh, I don't know... Finding life on other planets? Or for optimized scanners for.... oh, I don't know... scanning the human body for cancer cells?
This is a much simpler issue than most people seem to be making it. The Music industry is getting a tarrif, tax, or whatever you want to call it on every blank disc sold. This was to ment to pay them back for whatever amount of copying was going to go on. Now, Sony's making copying impossible. Are they sending those checks back?
seti@home will only be useful if it finds something.
Dnet has already confirmed the longest golumb ruler of length 24 and is working on discovering the longest ruler length 25. This information is IMMEDIATLY useful to people in many fields of science. I'd point you to their OGR page, but for the fear of/.'ing them.
This would be like the the feeling you get after removing roller-skates. Your brain has had a couple hours to figure out that no action=forward movement. Now, without the skates, when you stand still, you feel like you are moving. And that's just a couple of hours. What would it be like if you LIVED on roller-skates (Hi Tootie!) I could easily imagine that person not being able to walk properly for a while. Yes, they'd get over it, but not right away.
Here's something I thought of while reading all of this. If you somehow had the ability to watch yourself from a birds-eye perspective, such that you always knew what was going on around you (Ala many 3D games, like EverQuest) and then suddenly lost that ability, you would be worse off than if you never had that ability. You wouldn't have built the skills to gather that information any other way. Conversly, some people who have been blind from life, and gain their vision either from surgery or whatever, occasionally have so much trouble coping with the world that they have to be re-blinded. The necessary skills just aren't there.
The moderator obviously did not understand the book. It's extreamly un-funny. Maybe it's because I've read both "Ender's Game" and "Peter Pan" this week.
Here we go. I believe they gave too much away when they mentioned that if Saddam had any problems, all he had to do was wait, and the Internet would provide him the answers. This is an Obvious attempt by SONY to reduce reverse-engineering by linking it to Evil-Bad Consequences. Now, it is no longer simply that SONY will get bent out of shape if you figure out how to remove region coding, oh no..... If you hack your PS2, you could be HELPING THE EVIL TYRANT TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!!!
So we can keep from annoying EVERYONE, could someone please update the article to mention A) The Mirrors, and B) The fact that these are BIG files. (I know the first file is ~9.2 Megs)
Oh, BTW. I'm done downloading now, so someone else can have my spot:)
Nipok_Nek - The opposite of Light is Unlight
(Yes I know: It's Scott Adams, Not Infocom)
I just had another thought, moments after I posted.:)
Think about it in different terms. View CS as a missionary of the OS/FS movement. He's come to show the pagans what they are missing. Now, if RMS had his way, if the pagans didn't immediatly accept the missionary's way of thinking, or even more correctly on the point, if they didn't think that way BEFORE the missionary arrived, then to heck with them. Our missionary would of course be the first of his kind, and would have to insulate himself against becoming contaminated by the pagan beliefs (the Closed Source 'wrapper') but once the pagans saw how much better things were on the missionary's side of the fence, they would all surely begin acting like him, and demanding that they be allowed to believe the way he does.
Show all the closed source PS2 programmers that when they program for the PS2, they could ALSO be programming for a multitude of other platforms, and eventually they will all be SCREAMING for the chance. Greed is a wonderful motivator.
It doesn't strike you as a major difference that, in one case, we have a fanatic who wants to dominate the world, control all standards, and crush his competition, and on the other, we have a fanatic who wants to tear down the walls of secrecy, give us all the freedom to examine the tools we use, and give everyone, from the richest developers to the poorest college student, the same level of access?
And if you can't give him everything he wants, he'll have nothing to do with you. He reminds me of some of the cartoon protesters from the movie "PCU." If you aren't 100% with him, then brother, you're against him.
About the gun issue. Suppose a I close all the gun shops and have to go elsewhere to get guns. Now suppose I make sure that I close my borders to all trade and make sure that said trade is strictly monitored if I indeed want something to get into the country. Now unless you are very cleaver and can manage to sneak guns from China into a black maket and then find a person who can sell them to you (usually at a high markup) then you won't be able to get a gun
Right. And this method works SO well with drugs, doesn't it?
I just love the way everyone references mozilla for the open source success story. the project that still isn't done.
Well, since you decided to post as an AC, no one cares what you love.
Oh, and also... Open Source projects are NEVER done. When will Linux be done? The whole point of not closing the code is that the code never closes. If it did, it would just be Closed Source programming with a lot of Beta testers. If you don't even understand THAT much about it, just cut your keyboard cable now.
That's not obscure, it's secure. Only you know the system used to encode that data (although, I suspect it's a direct substitution type code, where something is simply replaced by something else according to a predefined look-up table.) Now, if this look-up table were published somewhere, or available for the asking if you could figure out who to ask, and how to ask them, then yes... that would be Security through Obscurity - The belief that noone who doesn't deserve to have access to the data would go to the trouble of working out how to get it. Otherwise it's just encryption. (An strange sort of encryption, to be sure, but still encryption)
The keystroke monitors can capture what you type, even before it is encrypted!
Then encrypt it BEFORE you type it in. Print up a page of barcodes representing the standard printable keys on a keyboard, and use your:CueCat scanner to type. Let them try and decipher THAT plain text:)
Your problem is described very well in the book "The Peter Principle" Basically, it states that, in a hierarchy, people tend to rise to their level of incompetence. It describes why this happens, and what you can do to keep it from happening to YOU. And if I could find my copy, I'd tell you what to do, but I can't so I'll have to let someone else do that:P
So, what you are saying, is that this nifty little device (when connected to my tv, and left running 24/7) will keep loading pages all day long? Gee.. aren't there programs out there that PAY YOU to do that? They might be able to complain about hacked browsers, but this is a LEGITIMATE product. Who says I wasn't watching TV all day long, and letting my computer bring up the web pages?
You want to HONOR him? Take the money, and use it to increase Human Knowledge, and forget about quibbling what they call the bloody thing. How much are your warm and fuzzies worth?
If and When they ever come up with a cure for Aids, I could care less if it's named after the inventor, called the 'Aids Cure', or The Microsoft Anti-AIDS Virus vaccine, as long as it works. And if it comes a DAY sooner because they took the money, that's LIVES SAVED! (No, I don't have Aids. I knew people who did, tho. If I did, I would have just chosen a different example.)
If anyone ever turns down money and puts my name on something instead, I'll come back from the dead and bitchslap them personally.
(Lets see who can come up with the original reply - If they put YOUR name on it, Nip, *I'LL* bitchslap them for you. - Ha Ha. It wasn't funny when I thought if it, it's still not funny now.)
Slashdot Mirror
I see we're gonna have to do this the hard way.
>See, that's just the problem. It takes lawyers and pedantic linguaphiles like you to "not get it."
>
>For the average person, "copying" a DVD would imply being able to *play* the copy.
Yes. I agree completely. You are 100% correct. For the average person, the two meanings overlap unclearly. This is precisely my point. If the people who DO understand the difference (The EFF, in this example) don't take pains to make sure their meanings are clear, then what chance does the average guy have of really understanding what's going on?
And as to you refering to me as "pedantic," by which I will assume you ment that I was overly concerned with trivial details, let me say that the Devil is in those details. Let's take a trip in time back to the day before DeCSS was available in any form. Here, we see Johnny Pirate, inserting his DVD into his computer.... ripping the encoded contents onto his hard drive... and Lookie! Watching the DVD on his Hard Drive
"But!" you say, "It's still encoded!" Of course it is. It's the PLAYER that does the decoding. As long as you have a working player, you don't need a decoded file. And all DVD-ROM drives come with players... That work under Windows. If you buy that exact same drive, and try to watch your DVD on a non-Windows platform, you're SOL. Or at least you were, until DeCSS came along.
So, now that we've cleared that up, I trust you won't feel the need to be "pedantic" about my spelling, or anything else so crucial.
I'm glad we agree.
Nipok Nek
Next time, please use the PREVIEW button! Ick.
Nipok Nek
"In the Universal v. Reimerdes case, discussed above, the court held that section 1201 bans DeCSS software. This software decrypts DVD movies, making it possible to copy them to a PC." (Italics Mine)
You've always been able to copy them. It's PLAYING them that's been the problem. If even the EFF can be confused on this point, what chance do we have to get Joe American to understand?
Nipok Nek
That's all I had to say. :)
Nipok_Nek
Did you even READ my post? A Golumb ruler has NOTHING to DO with crypto. Distributed.net works on MANY problems at the same time. Yes, it's got some crypto cracking going on right now. I don't do any of that. I have my node set to only do OGR blocks. A Golumb ruler is a ruler with no two sets of marks the same distance apart as any other two marks. Finding the shortest ruler for X number of marks is the kind of thing mankind only needs to do once, then the information will be available forever. On their website, they give examples of the kinds of science that can make use of this information. Like building radio arrays for... oh, I don't know... Finding life on other planets? Or for optimized scanners for.... oh, I don't know... scanning the human body for cancer cells?
Or we can just keep listening to static.
Nipok Nek
This is a much simpler issue than most people seem to be making it. The Music industry is getting a tarrif, tax, or whatever you want to call it on every blank disc sold. This was to ment to pay them back for whatever amount of copying was going to go on. Now, Sony's making copying impossible. Are they sending those checks back?
Nipok Nek
seti@home will only be useful if it finds something.
/.'ing them.
Dnet has already confirmed the longest golumb ruler of length 24 and is working on discovering the longest ruler length 25. This information is IMMEDIATLY useful to people in many fields of science. I'd point you to their OGR page, but for the fear of
This would be like the the feeling you get after removing roller-skates. Your brain has had a couple hours to figure out that no action=forward movement. Now, without the skates, when you stand still, you feel like you are moving. And that's just a couple of hours. What would it be like if you LIVED on roller-skates (Hi Tootie!) I could easily imagine that person not being able to walk properly for a while. Yes, they'd get over it, but not right away.
Here's something I thought of while reading all of this. If you somehow had the ability to watch yourself from a birds-eye perspective, such that you always knew what was going on around you (Ala many 3D games, like EverQuest) and then suddenly lost that ability, you would be worse off than if you never had that ability. You wouldn't have built the skills to gather that information any other way. Conversly, some people who have been blind from life, and gain their vision either from surgery or whatever, occasionally have so much trouble coping with the world that they have to be re-blinded. The necessary skills just aren't there.
Nipok Nek
He wasn't trying to Enter Canada. He was already there (and got in no problem.) He was trying to LEAVE.
Nipok Nek
I'm no fan of off-topic First Posters, but how can a first post be called Redundant?
Nipok Nek
Line Item Veto
Nipok Nek
The moderator obviously did not understand the book. It's extreamly un-funny. Maybe it's because I've read both "Ender's Game" and "Peter Pan" this week.
Nipok Nek
Here we go. I believe they gave too much away when they mentioned that if Saddam had any problems, all he had to do was wait, and the Internet would provide him the answers. This is an Obvious attempt by SONY to reduce reverse-engineering by linking it to Evil-Bad Consequences. Now, it is no longer simply that SONY will get bent out of shape if you figure out how to remove region coding, oh no..... If you hack your PS2, you could be HELPING THE EVIL TYRANT TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!!!
Very clever of them, I say.
Nipok_Nek
So we can keep from annoying EVERYONE, could someone please update the article to mention A) The Mirrors, and B) The fact that these are BIG files. (I know the first file is ~9.2 Megs)
:)
Oh, BTW. I'm done downloading now, so someone else can have my spot
Nipok_Nek - The opposite of Light is Unlight
(Yes I know: It's Scott Adams, Not Infocom)
Anyone know why this story isn't coming up on the front page?
Nipok_Nek
I just had another thought, moments after I posted. :)
Think about it in different terms. View CS as a missionary of the OS/FS movement. He's come to show the pagans what they are missing. Now, if RMS had his way, if the pagans didn't immediatly accept the missionary's way of thinking, or even more correctly on the point, if they didn't think that way BEFORE the missionary arrived, then to heck with them. Our missionary would of course be the first of his kind, and would have to insulate himself against becoming contaminated by the pagan beliefs (the Closed Source 'wrapper') but once the pagans saw how much better things were on the missionary's side of the fence, they would all surely begin acting like him, and demanding that they be allowed to believe the way he does.
Show all the closed source PS2 programmers that when they program for the PS2, they could ALSO be programming for a multitude of other platforms, and eventually they will all be SCREAMING for the chance. Greed is a wonderful motivator.
Nipok_Nek
And if you can't give him everything he wants, he'll have nothing to do with you. He reminds me of some of the cartoon protesters from the movie "PCU." If you aren't 100% with him, then brother, you're against him.
Nipok_Nek
Right. And this method works SO well with drugs, doesn't it?
Nipok_Nek
Well, since you decided to post as an AC, no one cares what you love.
Oh, and also... Open Source projects are NEVER done. When will Linux be done? The whole point of not closing the code is that the code never closes. If it did, it would just be Closed Source programming with a lot of Beta testers. If you don't even understand THAT much about it, just cut your keyboard cable now.
Nipok_Nek
That's not obscure, it's secure. Only you know the system used to encode that data (although, I suspect it's a direct substitution type code, where something is simply replaced by something else according to a predefined look-up table.) Now, if this look-up table were published somewhere, or available for the asking if you could figure out who to ask, and how to ask them, then yes... that would be Security through Obscurity - The belief that noone who doesn't deserve to have access to the data would go to the trouble of working out how to get it. Otherwise it's just encryption. (An strange sort of encryption, to be sure, but still encryption)
NipokNek
Then encrypt it BEFORE you type it in. Print up a page of barcodes representing the standard printable keys on a keyboard, and use your :CueCat scanner to type. Let them try and decipher THAT plain text :)
A very evil NipokNek
Your problem is described very well in the book "The Peter Principle" Basically, it states that, in a hierarchy, people tend to rise to their level of incompetence. It describes why this happens, and what you can do to keep it from happening to YOU. And if I could find my copy, I'd tell you what to do, but I can't so I'll have to let someone else do that :P
NipokNek
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& item=439351024
NipokNek
So, what you are saying, is that this nifty little device (when connected to my tv, and left running 24/7) will keep loading pages all day long? Gee.. aren't there programs out there that PAY YOU to do that? They might be able to complain about hacked browsers, but this is a LEGITIMATE product. Who says I wasn't watching TV all day long, and letting my computer bring up the web pages?
Nipok Nek
You want to HONOR him? Take the money, and use it to increase Human Knowledge, and forget about quibbling what they call the bloody thing. How much are your warm and fuzzies worth?
If and When they ever come up with a cure for Aids, I could care less if it's named after the inventor, called the 'Aids Cure', or The Microsoft Anti-AIDS Virus vaccine, as
long as it works. And if it comes a DAY sooner because they took the money, that's LIVES SAVED! (No, I don't have Aids. I knew people who did, tho. If I did, I would have just chosen a different example.)
If anyone ever turns down money and puts my name on something instead, I'll come back from the dead and bitchslap them personally.
(Lets see who can come up with the original reply - If they put YOUR name on it, Nip, *I'LL* bitchslap them for you. - Ha Ha. It wasn't funny when I thought if it, it's still not funny now.)
Nipok Nek