If it were illegal in the US, IBM couldn't back it. What do you think would happen to Linux then? IBM is the 800lb gorilla in the corner backing up the penguin...
Additionally, if it were illegal to use for US businesses, it would be a huge blow. Sure you could use it internationally but no major international company would mix their rollout just for the sake of having linux. Only solely foreign companies would use it. It would be a big blow.
However i doubt Microsoft will sue and anything of this magnitude will ever happen.
There are simply so many software patents, on so many fundamental principles, that no non-trivial software program could exist that was licensed by all patent holders with claims reading on the algorithms used.
... So then, by your own admission, it is crystal clear why SuSE took out this patent protection from Microsoft.
It's odd that this would make you lose "what little faith you have in free software"
It is the fact that the camp that is supposedly based on "freedom" is reacting in a manner that continues to restrict and restrict and restrict further. It started with the tivoization clauses in GPLv3, etc. You can't preserve freedoms by removing them. You shouldn't implement your political agendas in a so-called "free" license.
given that the other side of the argument is the one exercising bad faith. It doesn't sound well-reasoned, or perhaps there's something that would sway you in that direction that you aren't telling us about.
Microsoft/Novell are capitalists. I know what to expect, coming from them. I don't see the bad faith; they are within the letter of the law, and really that is all that matters. The spirit changes...
The fact that someone proposes not even appending a version number but "the latest" becasuse the latest will need to change too rapidly to keep up. You didn't get it.
What about the GPLv3 is good for business? Please do tell... all these changes with respect to patents and needing to share code for web services and the so-called "Tivo" clauses... do you really think businesses want these liabilities?
Is it within the letter? Novell and Microsoft say so,
So... what they did is entirely legal, albeit not what RMS and Eben and whoever else had in mind for Free Software.
Sorry. It just sounds like you guys are just being a bunch of sore losers that they are playing in your playground. And you guys are doing as much, if not more, mudslinging that Microsoft.
And then a lot of stuff that Novell needs will go under those licenses, and Novell will be stuck with the entire version of maintaining obsolete forks without the help of the community.
**cough** BSD **cough**... that's where some/a lot of the original tools for Linux came from anyways, right? And that's free as in free for anything, not free as in 'ask the FSF for permission'. Sorry if I come off as sarcastic but this whole deal has made me lose what little faith i have in free software.
$210M for a name brand and a customer base is cheap (which is really what Novell was purchasing. If all they wanted was a distro, they would have just made a derivative off of RH or someone else). Replacing some gnu tools with BSD would not be a big deal in the shareholders eyes, I don't think. The core kernel, linux, isn't changing along with most major packages... Honestly I like the fact they are shaking things up.
... a fraction of the player base, with a fraction of the number of servers... no, I don't just scream at them all day assuming they are lazy buffoons, but i know a thing or two about networking (Formerly a network technitian and a high level support representative for an isp, currently a engineer who writes code... and yes i have written networking code) and computers and I **have** seen other pay services that operate better. Not just Everquest; virtually every other pay service was better. It is reminiscent of battle.net; granted that was not a pay service although ad-supported. There is obviously still problems in their system that they haven't worked out.
The point is that the entire GPL, and section 7 in particular, binds the community of people who redistribute the software to stand together against a patent aggressor rather than sell out individually and thus weaken the rest of the community against that aggressor.
Since Eben Moglen seems to think that changes are needed to GPLv3 in order to "prevent this from happening in the future"... the GPLv2 must not be adequate. Either you are wrong or he is. Who is it?
She plays on Blackrock, cause Mal'Ganis (where her 2 level 60's reside) now has queue times of 40+ minutes after 7pm, which is when our son goes to bed...
I havn't been DC'ed from my high pop server in a few weeks
Yeah. A few weeks. Game has been out for 2 years. You think they would have it figured out by now...
And my friends and I have been playing EQ since 2001.
And on the flipside (my wife plays WoW)... they still have downtime problems to this day. Even on medium pop servers. Just last week she was getting disconnected every 30 seconds. She put up with it for 15 times and then gave up in frusturation. Meanwhile my trader in Everquest never disconnected...
Interesting theory, I guess, if you are dead-set on dinosaurs having never roamed the earth.
Here is another one for you: Dinosaurs did roam the earth. The flood wiped them out. And thats where some of the oil came from. Massive graveyards underground, extreme pressure = oil, over time. Not just dinosaurs of course but other animals. Postflood there were climate changes that didn't allow for their survival (I'm at work and don't have a reference but there were two waters from the flood "the waters of the deep" "the expanse of the sky", some theorize a vapor canopy that protected the earth and provided a much more universal temperate climate. This might also have thrown the world into the first [and presumably only] ice age, allowing animals and humans to walk across Russia to the US and propogate).
Just one of the theories I've heard. Personally I'd like to think Dinosaurs did roam. I don't see why fossils would just be there for no good reason.
Go educate yourself some, you're an embarrassment to modern humanity.
Masters of science in Aerospace Engineering. Many years of religious study on the side. One can have faith and science, it is a matter of perspective. I am sorry you can't see that.
I guess ogre being not particularly good and needing bringing up to speed was why they were one of the Google Summer of Code participants?
Yes, exactly. And its a far cry for UT, lacking physics and other features. And even in rendering other open source packages like OpenSceneGraph are a lot better. (And are used at NASA on other projects). Remember, NASA is looking for results, now, not for a long development cycle...
I tend to agree with you. However I find the same phenomenon occurs for me when I'm playing with my kids, playing Everquest, and reading articles that aren't in my field.
Ralph Wiggum: Oh Boy! Sleep! Thats where Im a viking!
out of thin air, but one things for sure
on
GoogleOS Scenarios
·
· Score: 1
It is all speculation, but one thing is for sure - google thrives off of personal information, so it will be a webOS or at least something that is heavily integrated to their databases online.
If you believe that God created the world in 7 days, then on one of those days He created dinosaurs, and on one of those days He created humans. Therefore, humans and dinosaurs coexisted. (I happen to believe in a literal interpretation of the bible so yes, I share that belief). Also Job 40-41 mentions a "Leviathon" which, if you go back to the original Hebrew (reading a commentary and consulting someone who knows the original language, as all pastors in our synod do) the consensus is a beast **larger** than a modern elephant or hippopotamous.
Slashdot Mirror
If it were illegal in the US, IBM couldn't back it. What do you think would happen to Linux then? IBM is the 800lb gorilla in the corner backing up the penguin...
Additionally, if it were illegal to use for US businesses, it would be a huge blow. Sure you could use it internationally but no major international company would mix their rollout just for the sake of having linux. Only solely foreign companies would use it. It would be a big blow.
However i doubt Microsoft will sue and anything of this magnitude will ever happen.
There are simply so many software patents, on so many fundamental principles, that no non-trivial software program could exist that was licensed by all patent holders with claims reading on the algorithms used.
... So then, by your own admission, it is crystal clear why SuSE took out this patent protection from Microsoft.
It's odd that this would make you lose "what little faith you have in free software"
...
It is the fact that the camp that is supposedly based on "freedom" is reacting in a manner that continues to restrict and restrict and restrict further. It started with the tivoization clauses in GPLv3, etc. You can't preserve freedoms by removing them. You shouldn't implement your political agendas in a so-called "free" license.
given that the other side of the argument is the one exercising bad faith. It doesn't sound well-reasoned, or perhaps there's something that would sway you in that direction that you aren't telling us about.
Microsoft/Novell are capitalists. I know what to expect, coming from them. I don't see the bad faith; they are within the letter of the law, and really that is all that matters. The spirit changes
PvP servers just have more NPC's with a little better AI :). Unfortunately in most implementations they don't drop loot ...
The fact that someone proposes not even appending a version number but "the latest" becasuse the latest will need to change too rapidly to keep up. You didn't get it.
... and without maintainer intervention, then maybe there is something wrong with the license. Or the code. Pick one.
There are **plenty** of sites that can get around FF's popup blocker. And IE 7's popup blocker is getting good. I'd say they are about equal now.
What about the GPLv3 is good for business? Please do tell ... all these changes with respect to patents and needing to share code for web services and the so-called "Tivo" clauses ... do you really think businesses want these liabilities?
Same here. So much for "Open" in open source ... :(
Is it within the letter? Novell and Microsoft say so,
... that's where some/a lot of the original tools for Linux came from anyways, right? And that's free as in free for anything, not free as in 'ask the FSF for permission'. Sorry if I come off as sarcastic but this whole deal has made me lose what little faith i have in free software.
So... what they did is entirely legal, albeit not what RMS and Eben and whoever else had in mind for Free Software.
Sorry. It just sounds like you guys are just being a bunch of sore losers that they are playing in your playground. And you guys are doing as much, if not more, mudslinging that Microsoft.
And then a lot of stuff that Novell needs will go under those licenses, and Novell will be stuck with the entire version of maintaining obsolete forks without the help of the community.
**cough** BSD **cough**
$210M for a name brand and a customer base is cheap (which is really what Novell was purchasing. If all they wanted was a distro, they would have just made a derivative off of RH or someone else). Replacing some gnu tools with BSD would not be a big deal in the shareholders eyes, I don't think. The core kernel, linux, isn't changing along with most major packages... Honestly I like the fact they are shaking things up.
... so the rules don't apply ... it is not viral. Unless they change it, which **will** cause an uproar in the community.
... a fraction of the player base, with a fraction of the number of servers ... no, I don't just scream at them all day assuming they are lazy buffoons, but i know a thing or two about networking (Formerly a network technitian and a high level support representative for an isp, currently a engineer who writes code... and yes i have written networking code) and computers and I **have** seen other pay services that operate better. Not just Everquest; virtually every other pay service was better. It is reminiscent of battle.net; granted that was not a pay service although ad-supported. There is obviously still problems in their system that they haven't worked out.
The point is that the entire GPL, and section 7 in particular, binds the community of people who redistribute the software to stand together against a patent aggressor rather than sell out individually and thus weaken the rest of the community against that aggressor.
... the GPLv2 must not be adequate. Either you are wrong or he is. Who is it?
Since Eben Moglen seems to think that changes are needed to GPLv3 in order to "prevent this from happening in the future"
name names
says the anonymous coward
She plays on Blackrock, cause Mal'Ganis (where her 2 level 60's reside) now has queue times of 40+ minutes after 7pm, which is when our son goes to bed...
...
I havn't been DC'ed from my high pop server in a few weeks
Yeah. A few weeks. Game has been out for 2 years. You think they would have it figured out by now
BURMA SHAVE
And my friends and I have been playing EQ since 2001.
... they still have downtime problems to this day. Even on medium pop servers. Just last week she was getting disconnected every 30 seconds. She put up with it for 15 times and then gave up in frusturation. Meanwhile my trader in Everquest never disconnected...
And on the flipside (my wife plays WoW)
Interesting theory, I guess, if you are dead-set on dinosaurs having never roamed the earth.
Here is another one for you: Dinosaurs did roam the earth. The flood wiped them out. And thats where some of the oil came from. Massive graveyards underground, extreme pressure = oil, over time. Not just dinosaurs of course but other animals. Postflood there were climate changes that didn't allow for their survival (I'm at work and don't have a reference but there were two waters from the flood "the waters of the deep" "the expanse of the sky", some theorize a vapor canopy that protected the earth and provided a much more universal temperate climate. This might also have thrown the world into the first [and presumably only] ice age, allowing animals and humans to walk across Russia to the US and propogate).
Just one of the theories I've heard. Personally I'd like to think Dinosaurs did roam. I don't see why fossils would just be there for no good reason.
Go educate yourself some, you're an embarrassment to modern humanity.
Masters of science in Aerospace Engineering. Many years of religious study on the side. One can have faith and science, it is a matter of perspective. I am sorry you can't see that.
I guess ogre being not particularly good and needing bringing up to speed was why they were one of the Google Summer of Code participants?
Yes, exactly. And its a far cry for UT, lacking physics and other features. And even in rendering other open source packages like OpenSceneGraph are a lot better. (And are used at NASA on other projects). Remember, NASA is looking for results, now, not for a long development cycle...
I tend to agree with you. However I find the same phenomenon occurs for me when I'm playing with my kids, playing Everquest, and reading articles that aren't in my field.
Ralph Wiggum: Miss Hoover, I ate my paste.
Miss Hoover: Thats ok Ralph just go to sleep.
Ralph Wiggum: Oh Boy! Sleep! Thats where Im a viking!
It is all speculation, but one thing is for sure - google thrives off of personal information, so it will be a webOS or at least something that is heavily integrated to their databases online.
If you believe that God created the world in 7 days, then on one of those days He created dinosaurs, and on one of those days He created humans. Therefore, humans and dinosaurs coexisted. (I happen to believe in a literal interpretation of the bible so yes, I share that belief). Also Job 40-41 mentions a "Leviathon" which, if you go back to the original Hebrew (reading a commentary and consulting someone who knows the original language, as all pastors in our synod do) the consensus is a beast **larger** than a modern elephant or hippopotamous.
(I am not a theologian)