heh, your post made me remember a funny story. My father when I was a bit younger wanted to buy a NES for us and he waited at some ungodly hour of the morning at Toys'r'us only to find they never received any. He then just walked to a nearby Kmart in desperation and they had a stack to the ceiling:)
I too will be one of the first to snag a Revolution, I can't wait for the tables of the game industry to swing back to Nintendo where the game is king, not the hardware.
I find it even MORE funny that people would think Nintendo couldn't fully emulate its own hardware on its own hardware!!! What are you, a nut?!? How do you think they create dev kits? They can 100% emulate their own hardware, they have all the design docs, API's, etc... THEY BUILT IT ORIGINALLY!
If a group of high school/college kids can get 90% complete emulator by reverse engineering I'm pretty sure it's a lock that Nintendo can emulate their own 20 year old systems perfectly on new hardware. Sheesh.
I kinda agree, $20 for the classic line was a bit of a stretch for sure, especially when they weren't exact replica's like Zelda where the resolution was screwed up a bit. Those were perfect candidates for $9.99.
I have a feeling the NES/SNES titles will be ~$5.00, I'm hoping for $1.00 for 30 days or $5.00 for unlimited like cell phones.
I, for one, am glad to pay for digital content, just not out the @ss for a digital medium that is virtually costless. A cartridge based game costs money to produce and circulate/market a file does not.
When the PSP gets buggy emulators everyone creams, but when the Revolution is announced to play old titles (perfectly, no doubt, I might add) everyone is as down on it as can be. Funny how them double standards work.
After reviewing all manner of games for some time, I hear all these people clamoring for better AI. They don't really want it that is why games don't have it. Most dev's spend time *tuning* the AI to be a nice average difficulty because if they didn't no one would play. Now at times dev's simply pull stupid attempts at AI like Gran turismo 3... that was pathetic. Killzone actually had pretty solid AI, but no one cared. Machines can be programmed quite easily to beat a human player using true AI and fuzzy logic, games would not be fun. Humans are better at finding patterns and that has been the defacto standard AI decision over true AI, it isn't that the hardware can't handle it.
I think the article linked to in the article says much more about this next gen gaming: This article sums up the next-gen from the developers perspective, a view I've been trying to get across to those here on/. who seem to overlook this perspective when it is the most important one!
These new consoles (especially the PS3 and Xbox 360) which are all about the numbers are going to suck at housing anything but pretty games. They both use in-order CPU's which kills all attempts at AI and gameplay improvements, these are streamlined for graphics only and this is a big mistake. After playing one or two FPS titles in HD and maybe a sports/racing title what is going to be left to play on your new console? Nothing. Thats why Sony and MS are pushing the "its not a game console" so heavily, they know developers are not going to support these systems with their high priced development costs.
Microsoft is off in left field with their grand idea to take the scum of online MMORPG's and put them on high with their SUPPORTING real life sale of virtual items, and Sony created their own ebay-like site to also support this degenerative practice. WTG, dickheads.
People need to wake up and see these new consoles are 98% marketing and 2% games, they are going to bomb bigtime... maybe not upfront on console sales (which neither of these two care about anyhow because they are taking a loss on the hardware), but on licensing, amount of games developed, and reception of the public.
Only Nintendo is aiming for the true gamers and they have it right this time, cheaper console, simple console, simple games, game delivery system, cheap development costs (this is huge!), innovative titles, and also including families and older gamers.
These are sad times for us true gamers, and when the FPS and GTA games fall flat, I can't wait to see Nintendo standing on the burning rubble of the so-called competitors.
Once again you show your ignorance while trying to find holes that aren't there in my argument. Ya know, sometimes people do actually know what they are talking about, and yes sometimes it is counter to your beliefs. I know I took the low road first with the assclown comment but I truly want you to understand where you are wrong here.
You again are basing your 7 titles and points 1 and 2 on a *summary* of the real article that leaves out huge chunks of what Midway Actually said. Here is the real article: Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360 The amazing thing is the article was edited after the first day to take out the stament where the CEO of Midway calls the Xbox 360 "a niche player" and replaced it with: "pretty small install base..." removing the niche comment. To also puncture your attempt to make it seem as if I'm not up on Midway or the game industry... from your article it states: "Midway is fully supporting the Xbox 360 and we have games in development at all of our internal studios," (emphasis added) The first part also was never actually said by Midway, it was claimed by an update on the gamespot article, I spoke with a rep. (its funny too that they state this statement comes from an un-named "rep.")from Midway and they stated no one would be authorized to make that statement at this time
I have been in contact with five developers for five different studios - one being owned by MS, and he is the only one that had anything good to say but also stated there were issues he was aware of at the moment that he couldn't go into. The others all openly stated their displeasure with the architecture of the 360, the toolsets so far, the costs and time involvement. One even went as far as to breakdown a current game development cycle and approximated a 360 title and the cost rose by over 50%.
Again, I understand that/. is filled with B.S. and B.S.'ers but I am not one and I can back up all of may claims quite easily, my game and game industry knowledge goes back to the Atari 2600, I wouldn't make a statement if it wasn't fact or couldn't be backed with fact and claim it to be so.
You sure have room to talk linking to a gamespot article that came from summarizing a news.com article. The original announcement was covered by News.com and clearly states exactly what I said. I have been an editor for a number of publications and online gaming sites, as well as a reviewer. (so yeah my spelling must be horrid, I'm at work, typing fast, and on/. not publishing my work... I'm replying to assclowns like you)
Fact of the matter is I do have a number of friends who are developers, and contacts with a number of dev studios, and *gasP* I've even programmed for the SNES... a truly hard piece of hardware to program for. I know what I speak about, have full credentials, and you can believe what you want... when the chips fall you will see who knows whats going on and who doesn't.
umm aparently your not keeping up well, Midway also announced that they are not even going to try for Xbox 360 launch and called it "a niche player" they also have not stated they will definitely develop any games for it. I have many contacts and there are many developers who are not going to be developing for the Xbox due to the constraints and costs of licencing and required toolsets.
So many of you are just not in tune with reality and what goes into game design/development. Strict deadlines and budgets rule today's games which are 1/2 to 1/3 as complex as developing for these systems. Budgets get cut, time gets cut, with these new systems all that will make it out is what comes from co.'s like EA and the big fish... Nintendo is going to be the only option for the small-medium dev studio's.
How in the world do you expect developers to pump out games that meet the requirements of the Xbox 360 (which alone will add to the costs) then add in things like special physics chips that require dedicated code and tools, and the rest of this new hardware everyone throws around like it is nothing... costs and time add up quickly and games take longer to develop and need more money, programmers, and debugging.
If any of you actually knew what went into this, and ACTUALLY TALK to a game developer, they will tell you the Xbox 360 especially does not have them excited due to a number of issues even besides those I have covered here (and XNA is not the be-all end-all answer either).
almost but not exactly, you are missing something though. The Xbox is not going to pull away from Ps3 they will be about equal with the xbox less due to Japan/overseas and PS2 backward compatibility. Also Developers are jumping ship on the Xbox so quick these days that the only thing they will have are the first-party titles and those made by dev houses they buy. The PS3 and Xbox are going to have very few titles over the life-span of these consoles due to the huge costs, barriers to entry, and time needed to produce titles... thats why they are now touting the "it's not just a game machine" line so heavily. The Revolution will have relatively quick development spurred on by the low cost (free? for home dev) initiative for development, built in user-base, backwards compatibility, and the yet-to-be-seen innovative controller.
This round is not going to be dominated by anyone, what it is going to do is splinter gaming up into smaller factions which is not such a good thing. Gamers will go with the Revolution (and more will flock to it when dry spells hit the other two consoles), the other two will be media centers with a few solid titles, porting will be all but dead due to the MS and Sony hardware and MS restrictions on game design (HD, 4xAA, no slowdown, etc.) this is not going to help the state of gaming. This may just be the last console war, after this the PC and console will continue to blur lines and then the face of gaming is changed. I think it a mistake to try to create these half/pc hybrid consoles and they are going to be rejected by a lot of families and gamers. The Nintendo revolution may just be a true revolution and cause new (maybe old, sega?) blood to enter the console market and standardize on a console and end this all with many companies utilizing the nintendo standard console in TV's, consumer electronics, etc.
I've been saying exactly this over the past few days and consistently get flamed for it: The Xbox 360 and PS3 are MEDIA CENTERS that happen to play games, only the revolution is designed as a game console in this round. This has nothing to do with which one is more "1337" it is a simple fact.
Most families are going to be put off by the high price tags, complex nature, and low number of games produced for these two "consoles." Production is going to be very expensive and time intensive, this generation will have fewer games released than any before. Most people with a tivo are not going to shell out the bucks for Xbox or PS3, and no one is going to impulse buy one because of one key title (think Halo), Here is where Nintendo again has the upper hand on the gaming side, small, easy, old games for mom and dad, solid franchise titles, great innovative content and control schemes, and the ability to pick up third-party developers with the low cost development they announced. MS requiring all HD content and 4x AA with no slowdown at all is asking more than most developers care to deal with, Factor 5 (rogue squadron) dropped support already, and Midway will not even try to make Xbox launch with any titles and publicly called the Xbox 360 "a niche player" and talked about how impossible development is so far for it.
All the fanatic loyalists are quickly seeing the man behind the curtain now that the media glitz is wearing thin.
I appreciate the suggestion, but I have been a Linux user since 1995 on very early versions of RedHat... before it was a twinkle in most geeks eyes. I am aware of dual booting, and I did that for a while to justify Linux but it grows old over 10 years. In 10 years linux (and the Mac for that matter) have come very far but they still cannot replace my Win based PC. I wish this weren't the case, I supported Loki Games, I've worked through the hells of Wine for apps/games, I've been there and done that and got the T-shirt. A total switch is very hard if you need specific apps with no alternatives (or easy alternatives), games, and when time eventually becomes more valuable than software pricing. Fighting with dependencies, compiling, troubleshooting, etc. used to be fun... eventually it becomes too costly though and Windows wins. It pains me to say it, but it is the truth.
Everytime I finally think I've had it and am ready to make the switch something new that I need is Win PC only, Guild Wars ruined the switch this time, the upcoming Fable Lost Chapters for PC, and DVDshrink... there is just too many apps/games keeping me locked. It is such a catch 22, if more supported Mac/Linux then developers would port titles but I can't fully support it because key titles are missing... arrrgh!
you really are dense aren't you? The title I clearly linked was "Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360" they also clearly call the Xbox 360 "a niche player" (you didn't respond to this did you?) These are not kind words of a company enthusiastic about the new hardware is it? Your fooling yourself if you think Midway will actually support the Xbox 360, what they are doing creating the opportunity for Sony to snatch them up as exclusive and it will happen soon, mark my words. You see I, unlike you, actually have been on the business side of the videogame industry and know how the game is played... say what you will, you will see quite soon the amount of public releases by developers against the Xbox 360 will begin soon - I already know three other developers preparing public statements as we speak, so I was referring to you when I said piss off. Get ready to weep with your trusty Xbox360 by your side while you continue to defend a losing platform.
Your argument seems correct, but it isn't in this case. See if I want to produce a PC game in lower-res (think online games/puzzle games, especially) I can. With the Xbox 360 you can't, ALL games have to be created from the ground up in HD... there is a lot of expense involved, especially in toolsets that have to be scrapped and moved over to MS only apps or compliant apps... this all takes a toll on a smaller developer. Barring entry to develop for your new mega-system in any way is a deathblow when third party support is where this round will be won or lost. Nintendo now has the door open to scoop up developers who are turning away from the xbox 360 and regain third-party support... and if you read between the lines you will see Nintendo knows this full well and is OPENING doors to development for the Revolution to capitalize on it. Sony has the third-party support and the toolsets and the hardware with no worries in this area.
Midway also did not state they are supporting the Xbox either, they plainly call it a niche player and are taking a wait and see approach, this is where Sony or Nintendo simply has to put up the money and lock ut the Xbox or even the other players totally (Sony can do this now if they wanted to and lock Midway as exclusive.) I have a lot of experience in the videogame world from the other side, not the fanboy side, but the business side and if you look at the information becoming available you will see the XBOX 360 is going to be a MS only vehicle to sell services and software abandoning third-parties and resting on its laurels of Halo to pull them through... it ain't gonna happen.
Yeah, way to skip past the whole part about how long the productions are going to run on Xbox 360 development which is why they aren't even trying to develop for launch. Except for MS dev studios no one is going to be able to create a title for launch due to the monumental effort involved in programming for it. Requiring every game to be programmed in HD raises costs astronomically and increases timeframes for production due to the vast amount of data that needs to be created/rendered... this is all way above the smaller devs in terms of their willingness to take on this amount of cost and time for what Midway calls the Xbox 360 "a niche player" oh, yeah you forgot to include that part too.
hahaha, mod me a troll all you want and all the claims that "I have no industry inside contacts," but Midway has just announced publicly they have not interest in Xbox 360!
Well your welcome to your wrong opinion, but the truth is that many developers are echoing this... Factor 5 is the first to publicly state it. Developers are not embracing the Xbox 360, I have many contacts in the videogame industry as I have been a member of the videogaming media for some time... this is not an isolated case.
"yesterday development company Factor 5 helped Sony fire another blow to Microsoft's camp by declaring allegiance to the Playstation 3. President Julian Eggebrecht told News.com that the Playstation 3 offered more processing power to more easily simulate the real world for a better game experience. The company had previously stated that it would work on the Xbox 360."
No matter what hype they spin, developers have been grumbling about the Xbox 360 design from day one as the specs were released, and now dev's are already giving up on it before it even begins! It is going to be a bear to program for (on par with the Saturn/PS2), (as can be seen from the amount already running on PS3 which is farther behind in production) So far the only thing to be said for the Xbox is by RARE (who MS bought out for Kameo, which has been scrapped twice) and all they have said is how many characters they can get onscreen at once... Yawn. The graphics look like PS2 or mid-high PC at best.
The Xbox CPU is not going to be 4 times as powerful as the Xbox 1, sorry to say. Number wise you may think so but that is to say that when the MHz doubles the acual performance doubles and it simply does not... you are also comparing apples to oranges trying to equate an x86 CPU to a PPC. The XBOX 360 will be about twice as powerful as Xbox 1.
ATI is not going to produce s majorly inferior GPU for the Revolution... it would actually COST them more to go backwards in performance and fabrication than at least the top of the line current GPU's. These GPU's will end up about equal, Nintendo's last GPU was superior to all of the other current gen systems allowing 8 layers of textures/bump mapping per poly! However nothing useful could be done with it due to other issues. Nintendo will not forsake graphics that much, maybe not 300 Million transistors but it will compare quite well to the Xbox GPU.
The PS2 is the only system of the three to have any real third party support, and even then most AAA titles were not exclusive... this will never be the case, AAA titles are meant to sell so restricting them to one system doesn't happen that often.
And to also validate my claims here is one developer publicly denouncing the XBOX 360 and dropping support for it already:
"yesterday development company Factor 5 helped Sony fire another blow to Microsoft's camp by declaring allegiance to the Playstation 3. President Julian Eggebrecht told News.com that the Playstation 3 offered more processing power to more easily simulate the real world for a better game experience. The company had previously stated that it would work on the Xbox 360."
Spoken Like a Good Twitch Gamer
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"while in reality should be one of the first places where your hard earned cash should be invested in"
OK, sure because mouse resolution and "mousing surfaces" are what most people really care about. I've been a system builder for better than 10 years and while a good mouse is important, good can easily be a $6.00 optical mouse made by Mitsumi. The first place to spend my cash? I think not. While twitch gamers get so hyped up on mice and surfaces its almost retarded, and regular users just want a mouse that works doesn't cripple them and responds well. Personally I still use my trusty iFeel Optical Mouseman by Logitech, probably about 7 years old with no issues or problems... cost? $12.99
After being attacked numerous times for my statements that developers do not have good things to say about the Xbox 360 this news today was released by developer Factor 5:
"yesterday development company Factor 5 helped Sony fire another blow to Microsoft's camp by declaring allegiance to the Playstation 3. President Julian Eggebrecht told News.com that the Playstation 3 offered more processing power to more easily simulate the real world for a better game experience. The company had previously stated that it would work on the Xbox 360."
Now all the pro-MS Xbox crowd can start to see my inside contacts ARE CORRECT, and that this will not be the last such statement by developers as they become available in the main stream press.
ha, your post actually made me laugh at the absurdity. FYI the revolution and the Xbox 360 will be about equal in terms of power... and BOTH of them are only going to be about 2 times the power of the original Xbox. This is pretty apparent.
The dreamcast and the gamecube fit exactly into my argument, not counter to it. Most hardcore gamers own PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube... and I'd venture to say they all still have a DC too! I do. It doesn't mean they lose.
The graphics chip in the Revolution is designed by ATI as well as the Xbox 360's they will be near identical. The nostalgic games being made available will be a selling point to a lot of gamers who still want fun, easy to pick up and play titles... this will hardly be the MAIN selling point. Oh, and you want to bring up third party support??? Look at PS2, ho wmany of the major AAA *exclusives* were third-party? Yeah. How bout the Xbox? Yeah. Nintendo has first-party titles that blow the door off the competition when they want to fully utilize them... Nintendo software sales beat out every other console overall (including GBA)... yeah they sure are in trouble, oh and the massive support in Japan really hurts them against rivals as the Xbox... which the WonderSwan outsold!
This is what happens at every E3 with console releases. And yet everyone still puts down the Revolution and Nintendo because they didn't spout off crazy numbers and show pre-rendered FMV... when will people learn?
OK on one hand you have two companies generating hype on unfinished products, most of which will never come true or be restricted in some way and on the other we have the honest approach where things are still being worked on and final numbers and gameplay is not available. So at the end of the day you still know absolutely NOTHING, they make you think you do... but you don't. I've been to my share of E3's and I will never again because it is always the case, then rinse and repeat. Give me a break. Nothing will change:
* MS will create a few new franchise titles, rehash Halo a couple times, feature sports titles and Live and tie in the Xbox to sell other MS services and their MCE software.
* Sony will continue to create endless sequels of their main titles with no gameplay improvements just graphics and tie in the PSP and Sony only media devices with a few must have exclusives
* Nintendo will produce a sleek console at a low pricepoint, create new titles based on old favorites with new gameplay elements, bring unique control schemes into some of their games, still be labled as "kiddy" even if it isn't true and sell steadily.
A cup of coffee used to cost about 25 cents, now they cost over $3.00... when will people realize this and stop supporting Starbucks? Seriously though, this is not meant as an attack... I agree to a point with your post.
I think this round of consoles is going to come down to the people and where they vote with their dollars. Either people are going to support the cheaper, more "fun" based Revolution or are going to be willing to buy expensive media centers that are also much more complex. Sure hardcore gamers will go for all three or their brand-loyal console regardless of price/performance/games but the average gamer and family I think will be voting on the Revolution.
I'm really hoping this is the case, and knock the rust off of the gaming industry and force companies to focus on the games and not the hardware and basically expensive tech. demos. This current trend needs to stop and now is the time to show it to the industry by supporting the one console with true gaming in mind and a reasonable pricepoint.
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heh, your post made me remember a funny story. My father when I was a bit younger wanted to buy a NES for us and he waited at some ungodly hour of the morning at Toys'r'us only to find they never received any. He then just walked to a nearby Kmart in desperation and they had a stack to the ceiling :)
I too will be one of the first to snag a Revolution, I can't wait for the tables of the game industry to swing back to Nintendo where the game is king, not the hardware.
I find it even MORE funny that people would think Nintendo couldn't fully emulate its own hardware on its own hardware!!! What are you, a nut?!? How do you think they create dev kits? They can 100% emulate their own hardware, they have all the design docs, API's, etc... THEY BUILT IT ORIGINALLY!
If a group of high school/college kids can get 90% complete emulator by reverse engineering I'm pretty sure it's a lock that Nintendo can emulate their own 20 year old systems perfectly on new hardware. Sheesh.
I kinda agree, $20 for the classic line was a bit of a stretch for sure, especially when they weren't exact replica's like Zelda where the resolution was screwed up a bit. Those were perfect candidates for $9.99.
I have a feeling the NES/SNES titles will be ~$5.00, I'm hoping for $1.00 for 30 days or $5.00 for unlimited like cell phones.
I, for one, am glad to pay for digital content, just not out the @ss for a digital medium that is virtually costless. A cartridge based game costs money to produce and circulate/market a file does not.
When the PSP gets buggy emulators everyone creams, but when the Revolution is announced to play old titles (perfectly, no doubt, I might add) everyone is as down on it as can be. Funny how them double standards work.
After reviewing all manner of games for some time, I hear all these people clamoring for better AI. They don't really want it that is why games don't have it. Most dev's spend time *tuning* the AI to be a nice average difficulty because if they didn't no one would play. Now at times dev's simply pull stupid attempts at AI like Gran turismo 3... that was pathetic. Killzone actually had pretty solid AI, but no one cared. Machines can be programmed quite easily to beat a human player using true AI and fuzzy logic, games would not be fun. Humans are better at finding patterns and that has been the defacto standard AI decision over true AI, it isn't that the hardware can't handle it.
I think the article linked to in the article says much more about this next gen gaming: This article sums up the next-gen from the developers perspective, a view I've been trying to get across to those here on /. who seem to overlook this perspective when it is the most important one!
These new consoles (especially the PS3 and Xbox 360) which are all about the numbers are going to suck at housing anything but pretty games. They both use in-order CPU's which kills all attempts at AI and gameplay improvements, these are streamlined for graphics only and this is a big mistake. After playing one or two FPS titles in HD and maybe a sports/racing title what is going to be left to play on your new console? Nothing. Thats why Sony and MS are pushing the "its not a game console" so heavily, they know developers are not going to support these systems with their high priced development costs.
Microsoft is off in left field with their grand idea to take the scum of online MMORPG's and put them on high with their SUPPORTING real life sale of virtual items, and Sony created their own ebay-like site to also support this degenerative practice. WTG, dickheads.
People need to wake up and see these new consoles are 98% marketing and 2% games, they are going to bomb bigtime... maybe not upfront on console sales (which neither of these two care about anyhow because they are taking a loss on the hardware), but on licensing, amount of games developed, and reception of the public.
Only Nintendo is aiming for the true gamers and they have it right this time, cheaper console, simple console, simple games, game delivery system, cheap development costs (this is huge!), innovative titles, and also including families and older gamers.
These are sad times for us true gamers, and when the FPS and GTA games fall flat, I can't wait to see Nintendo standing on the burning rubble of the so-called competitors.
Once again you show your ignorance while trying to find holes that aren't there in my argument. Ya know, sometimes people do actually know what they are talking about, and yes sometimes it is counter to your beliefs. I know I took the low road first with the assclown comment but I truly want you to understand where you are wrong here.
/. is filled with B.S. and B.S.'ers but I am not one and I can back up all of may claims quite easily, my game and game industry knowledge goes back to the Atari 2600, I wouldn't make a statement if it wasn't fact or couldn't be backed with fact and claim it to be so.
You again are basing your 7 titles and points 1 and 2 on a *summary* of the real article that leaves out huge chunks of what Midway Actually said. Here is the real article: Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360 The amazing thing is the article was edited after the first day to take out the stament where the CEO of Midway calls the Xbox 360 "a niche player" and replaced it with: "pretty small install base..." removing the niche comment. To also puncture your attempt to make it seem as if I'm not up on Midway or the game industry... from your article it states: "Midway is fully supporting the Xbox 360 and we have games in development at all of our internal studios," (emphasis added) The first part also was never actually said by Midway, it was claimed by an update on the gamespot article, I spoke with a rep. (its funny too that they state this statement comes from an un-named "rep.")from Midway and they stated no one would be authorized to make that statement at this time
I have been in contact with five developers for five different studios - one being owned by MS, and he is the only one that had anything good to say but also stated there were issues he was aware of at the moment that he couldn't go into. The others all openly stated their displeasure with the architecture of the 360, the toolsets so far, the costs and time involvement. One even went as far as to breakdown a current game development cycle and approximated a 360 title and the cost rose by over 50%.
Again, I understand that
You sure have room to talk linking to a gamespot article that came from summarizing a news.com article. The original announcement was covered by News.com and clearly states exactly what I said. I have been an editor for a number of publications and online gaming sites, as well as a reviewer. (so yeah my spelling must be horrid, I'm at work, typing fast, and on /. not publishing my work... I'm replying to assclowns like you)
Fact of the matter is I do have a number of friends who are developers, and contacts with a number of dev studios, and *gasP* I've even programmed for the SNES... a truly hard piece of hardware to program for. I know what I speak about, have full credentials, and you can believe what you want... when the chips fall you will see who knows whats going on and who doesn't.
umm aparently your not keeping up well, Midway also announced that they are not even going to try for Xbox 360 launch and called it "a niche player" they also have not stated they will definitely develop any games for it. I have many contacts and there are many developers who are not going to be developing for the Xbox due to the constraints and costs of licencing and required toolsets.
So many of you are just not in tune with reality and what goes into game design/development. Strict deadlines and budgets rule today's games which are 1/2 to 1/3 as complex as developing for these systems. Budgets get cut, time gets cut, with these new systems all that will make it out is what comes from co.'s like EA and the big fish... Nintendo is going to be the only option for the small-medium dev studio's.
How in the world do you expect developers to pump out games that meet the requirements of the Xbox 360 (which alone will add to the costs) then add in things like special physics chips that require dedicated code and tools, and the rest of this new hardware everyone throws around like it is nothing... costs and time add up quickly and games take longer to develop and need more money, programmers, and debugging.
If any of you actually knew what went into this, and ACTUALLY TALK to a game developer, they will tell you the Xbox 360 especially does not have them excited due to a number of issues even besides those I have covered here (and XNA is not the be-all end-all answer either).
almost but not exactly, you are missing something though. The Xbox is not going to pull away from Ps3 they will be about equal with the xbox less due to Japan/overseas and PS2 backward compatibility. Also Developers are jumping ship on the Xbox so quick these days that the only thing they will have are the first-party titles and those made by dev houses they buy. The PS3 and Xbox are going to have very few titles over the life-span of these consoles due to the huge costs, barriers to entry, and time needed to produce titles... thats why they are now touting the "it's not just a game machine" line so heavily. The Revolution will have relatively quick development spurred on by the low cost (free? for home dev) initiative for development, built in user-base, backwards compatibility, and the yet-to-be-seen innovative controller.
This round is not going to be dominated by anyone, what it is going to do is splinter gaming up into smaller factions which is not such a good thing. Gamers will go with the Revolution (and more will flock to it when dry spells hit the other two consoles), the other two will be media centers with a few solid titles, porting will be all but dead due to the MS and Sony hardware and MS restrictions on game design (HD, 4xAA, no slowdown, etc.) this is not going to help the state of gaming. This may just be the last console war, after this the PC and console will continue to blur lines and then the face of gaming is changed. I think it a mistake to try to create these half/pc hybrid consoles and they are going to be rejected by a lot of families and gamers. The Nintendo revolution may just be a true revolution and cause new (maybe old, sega?) blood to enter the console market and standardize on a console and end this all with many companies utilizing the nintendo standard console in TV's, consumer electronics, etc.
I've been saying exactly this over the past few days and consistently get flamed for it: The Xbox 360 and PS3 are MEDIA CENTERS that happen to play games, only the revolution is designed as a game console in this round. This has nothing to do with which one is more "1337" it is a simple fact.
Most families are going to be put off by the high price tags, complex nature, and low number of games produced for these two "consoles." Production is going to be very expensive and time intensive, this generation will have fewer games released than any before. Most people with a tivo are not going to shell out the bucks for Xbox or PS3, and no one is going to impulse buy one because of one key title (think Halo), Here is where Nintendo again has the upper hand on the gaming side, small, easy, old games for mom and dad, solid franchise titles, great innovative content and control schemes, and the ability to pick up third-party developers with the low cost development they announced. MS requiring all HD content and 4x AA with no slowdown at all is asking more than most developers care to deal with, Factor 5 (rogue squadron) dropped support already, and Midway will not even try to make Xbox launch with any titles and publicly called the Xbox 360 "a niche player" and talked about how impossible development is so far for it.
All the fanatic loyalists are quickly seeing the man behind the curtain now that the media glitz is wearing thin.
I appreciate the suggestion, but I have been a Linux user since 1995 on very early versions of RedHat... before it was a twinkle in most geeks eyes. I am aware of dual booting, and I did that for a while to justify Linux but it grows old over 10 years. In 10 years linux (and the Mac for that matter) have come very far but they still cannot replace my Win based PC. I wish this weren't the case, I supported Loki Games, I've worked through the hells of Wine for apps/games, I've been there and done that and got the T-shirt. A total switch is very hard if you need specific apps with no alternatives (or easy alternatives), games, and when time eventually becomes more valuable than software pricing. Fighting with dependencies, compiling, troubleshooting, etc. used to be fun... eventually it becomes too costly though and Windows wins. It pains me to say it, but it is the truth.
Everytime I finally think I've had it and am ready to make the switch something new that I need is Win PC only, Guild Wars ruined the switch this time, the upcoming Fable Lost Chapters for PC, and DVDshrink... there is just too many apps/games keeping me locked. It is such a catch 22, if more supported Mac/Linux then developers would port titles but I can't fully support it because key titles are missing... arrrgh!
you really are dense aren't you? The title I clearly linked was "Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360" they also clearly call the Xbox 360 "a niche player" (you didn't respond to this did you?) These are not kind words of a company enthusiastic about the new hardware is it? Your fooling yourself if you think Midway will actually support the Xbox 360, what they are doing creating the opportunity for Sony to snatch them up as exclusive and it will happen soon, mark my words. You see I, unlike you, actually have been on the business side of the videogame industry and know how the game is played... say what you will, you will see quite soon the amount of public releases by developers against the Xbox 360 will begin soon - I already know three other developers preparing public statements as we speak, so I was referring to you when I said piss off. Get ready to weep with your trusty Xbox360 by your side while you continue to defend a losing platform.
Your argument seems correct, but it isn't in this case. See if I want to produce a PC game in lower-res (think online games/puzzle games, especially) I can. With the Xbox 360 you can't, ALL games have to be created from the ground up in HD... there is a lot of expense involved, especially in toolsets that have to be scrapped and moved over to MS only apps or compliant apps... this all takes a toll on a smaller developer. Barring entry to develop for your new mega-system in any way is a deathblow when third party support is where this round will be won or lost. Nintendo now has the door open to scoop up developers who are turning away from the xbox 360 and regain third-party support... and if you read between the lines you will see Nintendo knows this full well and is OPENING doors to development for the Revolution to capitalize on it. Sony has the third-party support and the toolsets and the hardware with no worries in this area.
Midway also did not state they are supporting the Xbox either, they plainly call it a niche player and are taking a wait and see approach, this is where Sony or Nintendo simply has to put up the money and lock ut the Xbox or even the other players totally (Sony can do this now if they wanted to and lock Midway as exclusive.) I have a lot of experience in the videogame world from the other side, not the fanboy side, but the business side and if you look at the information becoming available you will see the XBOX 360 is going to be a MS only vehicle to sell services and software abandoning third-parties and resting on its laurels of Halo to pull them through... it ain't gonna happen.
Yeah, way to skip past the whole part about how long the productions are going to run on Xbox 360 development which is why they aren't even trying to develop for launch. Except for MS dev studios no one is going to be able to create a title for launch due to the monumental effort involved in programming for it. Requiring every game to be programmed in HD raises costs astronomically and increases timeframes for production due to the vast amount of data that needs to be created/rendered... this is all way above the smaller devs in terms of their willingness to take on this amount of cost and time for what Midway calls the Xbox 360 "a niche player" oh, yeah you forgot to include that part too.
hahaha, mod me a troll all you want and all the claims that "I have no industry inside contacts," but Midway has just announced publicly they have not interest in Xbox 360!
Midway to support PS3 at launch, but not Xbox 360
Time for a number of you to piss off now, realize developers are not supporting the Xbox.
Well your welcome to your wrong opinion, but the truth is that many developers are echoing this... Factor 5 is the first to publicly state it. Developers are not embracing the Xbox 360, I have many contacts in the videogame industry as I have been a member of the videogaming media for some time... this is not an isolated case.
"yesterday development company Factor 5 helped Sony fire another blow to Microsoft's camp by declaring allegiance to the Playstation 3. President Julian Eggebrecht told News.com that the Playstation 3 offered more processing power to more easily simulate the real world for a better game experience. The company had previously stated that it would work on the Xbox 360."
No matter what hype they spin, developers have been grumbling about the Xbox 360 design from day one as the specs were released, and now dev's are already giving up on it before it even begins! It is going to be a bear to program for (on par with the Saturn/PS2), (as can be seen from the amount already running on PS3 which is farther behind in production) So far the only thing to be said for the Xbox is by RARE (who MS bought out for Kameo, which has been scrapped twice) and all they have said is how many characters they can get onscreen at once... Yawn. The graphics look like PS2 or mid-high PC at best.
The Xbox CPU is not going to be 4 times as powerful as the Xbox 1, sorry to say. Number wise you may think so but that is to say that when the MHz doubles the acual performance doubles and it simply does not... you are also comparing apples to oranges trying to equate an x86 CPU to a PPC. The XBOX 360 will be about twice as powerful as Xbox 1.
ATI is not going to produce s majorly inferior GPU for the Revolution... it would actually COST them more to go backwards in performance and fabrication than at least the top of the line current GPU's. These GPU's will end up about equal, Nintendo's last GPU was superior to all of the other current gen systems allowing 8 layers of textures/bump mapping per poly! However nothing useful could be done with it due to other issues. Nintendo will not forsake graphics that much, maybe not 300 Million transistors but it will compare quite well to the Xbox GPU.
The PS2 is the only system of the three to have any real third party support, and even then most AAA titles were not exclusive... this will never be the case, AAA titles are meant to sell so restricting them to one system doesn't happen that often.
And to also validate my claims here is one developer publicly denouncing the XBOX 360 and dropping support for it already:
"yesterday development company Factor 5 helped Sony fire another blow to Microsoft's camp by declaring allegiance to the Playstation 3. President Julian Eggebrecht told News.com that the Playstation 3 offered more processing power to more easily simulate the real world for a better game experience. The company had previously stated that it would work on the Xbox 360."
"while in reality should be one of the first places where your hard earned cash should be invested in"
OK, sure because mouse resolution and "mousing surfaces" are what most people really care about. I've been a system builder for better than 10 years and while a good mouse is important, good can easily be a $6.00 optical mouse made by Mitsumi. The first place to spend my cash? I think not. While twitch gamers get so hyped up on mice and surfaces its almost retarded, and regular users just want a mouse that works doesn't cripple them and responds well. Personally I still use my trusty iFeel Optical Mouseman by Logitech, probably about 7 years old with no issues or problems... cost? $12.99
After being attacked numerous times for my statements that developers do not have good things to say about the Xbox 360 this news today was released by developer Factor 5:
"yesterday development company Factor 5 helped Sony fire another blow to Microsoft's camp by declaring allegiance to the Playstation 3. President Julian Eggebrecht told News.com that the Playstation 3 offered more processing power to more easily simulate the real world for a better game experience. The company had previously stated that it would work on the Xbox 360."
Now all the pro-MS Xbox crowd can start to see my inside contacts ARE CORRECT, and that this will not be the last such statement by developers as they become available in the main stream press.
ha, your post actually made me laugh at the absurdity. FYI the revolution and the Xbox 360 will be about equal in terms of power... and BOTH of them are only going to be about 2 times the power of the original Xbox. This is pretty apparent.
The dreamcast and the gamecube fit exactly into my argument, not counter to it. Most hardcore gamers own PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube... and I'd venture to say they all still have a DC too! I do. It doesn't mean they lose.
The graphics chip in the Revolution is designed by ATI as well as the Xbox 360's they will be near identical. The nostalgic games being made available will be a selling point to a lot of gamers who still want fun, easy to pick up and play titles... this will hardly be the MAIN selling point. Oh, and you want to bring up third party support??? Look at PS2, ho wmany of the major AAA *exclusives* were third-party? Yeah. How bout the Xbox? Yeah. Nintendo has first-party titles that blow the door off the competition when they want to fully utilize them... Nintendo software sales beat out every other console overall (including GBA)... yeah they sure are in trouble, oh and the massive support in Japan really hurts them against rivals as the Xbox... which the WonderSwan outsold!
This is what happens at every E3 with console releases. And yet everyone still puts down the Revolution and Nintendo because they didn't spout off crazy numbers and show pre-rendered FMV... when will people learn?
OK on one hand you have two companies generating hype on unfinished products, most of which will never come true or be restricted in some way and on the other we have the honest approach where things are still being worked on and final numbers and gameplay is not available. So at the end of the day you still know absolutely NOTHING, they make you think you do... but you don't. I've been to my share of E3's and I will never again because it is always the case, then rinse and repeat. Give me a break. Nothing will change:
* MS will create a few new franchise titles, rehash Halo a couple times, feature sports titles and Live and tie in the Xbox to sell other MS services and their MCE software.
* Sony will continue to create endless sequels of their main titles with no gameplay improvements just graphics and tie in the PSP and Sony only media devices with a few must have exclusives
* Nintendo will produce a sleek console at a low pricepoint, create new titles based on old favorites with new gameplay elements, bring unique control schemes into some of their games, still be labled as "kiddy" even if it isn't true and sell steadily.
A cup of coffee used to cost about 25 cents, now they cost over $3.00... when will people realize this and stop supporting Starbucks? Seriously though, this is not meant as an attack... I agree to a point with your post.
I think this round of consoles is going to come down to the people and where they vote with their dollars. Either people are going to support the cheaper, more "fun" based Revolution or are going to be willing to buy expensive media centers that are also much more complex. Sure hardcore gamers will go for all three or their brand-loyal console regardless of price/performance/games but the average gamer and family I think will be voting on the Revolution.
I'm really hoping this is the case, and knock the rust off of the gaming industry and force companies to focus on the games and not the hardware and basically expensive tech. demos. This current trend needs to stop and now is the time to show it to the industry by supporting the one console with true gaming in mind and a reasonable pricepoint.