> Any company to work that closely with MS always gets burned.
Lets see, Intel,AMD, Nvidia, HTC(who started out as a only-Windows Mobile OEM), Dell, HP, Sony, ASUS, Acer, Samsung, Lenovo... all of these got burnt and didn't make lots of profits because of their partnership with MS right?
Good job submitter, on getting the rabit, rambling and incoherent anti-Nokia troll Tomi Ahonen's article as the main link instead of the many other saner sources of the same news. I am just glad that it's not a rambling ten page mess as his usual articles tend to be.
> I'm just wondering how Eliop got a worse deal than that past the Nokia board and lawyers though?
If you don't think Elop was specifically hired by the board to do precisely what he did, then you're really naive. The board realized that the strategy of trying to create another incompatible ecosystem and trying to attract developers was doomed to fail from the get go and installed Elop as the CEO to do what he did.
Atleast now, Nokia gets lots of advertising dollars and an outright $1bn/yr platform support from Microsoft, a luxury that RIMM does not have.
“Your Content in our Services: When you upload or otherwise submit content to our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide licence to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes that we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content
WP7 does allow apps to run in the background. It does not allow apps to access certain APIs while running in the background, such as VOIP controls (e.g., Skype). That's not too dissimilar from what Apple does on iOS.
With WP7, background tasks cannot run constantly like they can do on Android. The OS schedules them every 30 min(on battery and cellular data) or every 15 mins(on plugged in power and WiFi) or totally shut off (battery is low and the battery saver is enabled).
Windows Phone 7.5 suspends apps when they leave the foreground. The only background activity that an app may do are periodic background agents which run 30 minutes apart and some streaming functionality through the multimedia framework. If your app falls outside that model (as Skype does) then tough shit you're going to have to gimp it to make it work on Windows Phone.
The stupid part is Windows 8 is going to implement a similarly retarded scheme for Metro apps. When they're not in the foreground they're suspended. So tough luck if you were using a video conferencing or VOIP app or a multiplayer game and you want to check an email in the middle of it. Because if you do then you'll probably terminate your session when you step away from it. Multitasking is so yesterday.
Retarded scheme? Haven't we learned anything from the system trays and toolbars of typical users? From Real Player agent, Quicktime agent and everything constantly running in the background? Now imagine all of those, running on a tablet or phone with a limited battery and with limited RAM. can you imagine the battery life and memory bloat? It has been proved that the apps abuse the privilege that they're granted and it's too much of a chore for non-power users to babysit them so they don't slow down the machine or eat up battery in an hour.
Also, Windows 8 desktop won't have such limitations, so you can do all what you want. Not to mention that Windows 8 Metro supports two side-by-side applications unlike iPad and Android tablets, which you have conveniently failed to mention.
The app still doesn't do basic stuff that the Skype app on Android does fine, like being able to receive calls when the app is not active. From what I read, this is a limitation of the platform. I really don't understand the glowing reviews for the Lumia 900 and the relentless praise for Windows Phone 7, in glowing reviews like this one: http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/15/nokia-lumia-900-review-this-ones-a-no-brainer/
It seems people can't stop making excuses for WP7, just because it's different to iOS and Android. It doesn't support dual core processors and resolutions higher than 800x480, and now it looks like no current phone will get an upgrade to Windows Phone 8, which is even worse than Android fragmentation issues. And it sounds like a repeat the HTC HD2 story, the HD2 was never upgraded to Windows 7 despite having the hardware to support it. It comes with a childish and uncustomizable homescreen. The applications screen consists of one long scrolling list that becomes a pain once you have a few apps installed. It was clever when it came out, but as Joshua Topolsky said for WP7 it's time we stopped giving it a pass.
It is not a technical limitation of the platform but a rather deliberate one that was put in place so that the battery does not run down because of background tasks. See Android with it's background services (some that are installed by carriers and that cannot even be uninstalled) and battery life problems. Anyway, this (and other limitations you listed) should be gone in WP8.
>Most of the hardware you describe doesn't exist except for the Yoga which is Intel not ARM. Windows RT is for ARM.
Your OP said, "nothing on the horizon" and now it's switched to something that "exists"?
So you want an ARM tablet/laptop hybrid and x86 ones don't qualify the requirement?
I think ASUS is going to come out with one of those, but they're of limited utility since only Office(comes bundled) will run the desktop and no existing Win32 apps.
You're contradicting your own arguments. If Windows RT lacks key enterprise tools because it's targeted at consumers, why would it have "a whole host of enterprise features", as you put it?
There is no contradiction. Have you heard of BYOD? (Bring Your Own Device)
Windows RT is supported in that scenario, that's why it has enterprise features but not to the same extent as on-premise PCs.
My main point was that the article did not even mention the blog published by Microsoft which is the biggest chunk of information ever released about Windows RT's enterprise support.
There are a whole host of enterprise features that Windows RT supports.
If they're not enough, you can get a Windows 8 x86 tablet, which will support anything that a desktop PC currently supports.
Why didn't the article link to that blog post or talk about it? It's plain FUD targeted at people like you and the MS haters have lapped it up hook, line and sinker like they've done with the author's previous articles. I am sure you can make a case that the features are not enough, but not even mentioning them AT ALL shows that it's a FUD article designed to drive page hits.
Microsoft has always had a strong enterprise relationship, so it's more likely that the lack of IT features is due to a rushed release schedule rather than sales strategy, especially considering that the iPad has been seeing rising enterprise adoption rates, which Microsoft is almost certainly aware of. Microsoft just didn't have a choice, because they're so far behind in the tablet market that they needed to release something at all costs.
Exactly, you're perfectly explained why the XBox 360 can't join a domain either.
They must have run out of time! After all they always had a strong enterprise relationship, so the explanation cannot be that the consoles are targeted at consumers. Maybe they'll have time to add domain join and group policy to the XBox 720, I can't wait to run SharePoint and BizTalk on it.
Hybrid tablet/laptops would have been great for Windows 8. But there is nothing on the horizon that remotely fits this vision. Intel is pushing for ultrabooks favoring less weight and more power efficiency instead of multi-touch transformable tablets. Seems like MS designed an OS for hardware that doesn't exist and even if it did is a very small percentage of users instead of optimizing for the hardware that is in the near future.
I think the reason you think the hardware doesn't exist is that they're keeping it under wraps so that they don't cannibalize existing sales now, which makes sense really.
Do you realize that AT&T actually pays Nokia a lot for the device and then subsidizes it?
The phone is $449 unlocked($349 if you count the $100 rebate).
They're not paying the customer when the customer has to sign up for an expensive contract plan for 24 months with the threat of an Early Termination Fee.
I have a book in the iBookstore. I set the price on it. Apple sells it for that price and gives me 70%.
I have the same book in the other bookstores. I have no control over the price. They give me what they want, which is half of what Apple gives me. I have no choice or say in the matter.
And the Department of Justice sues Apple? That's just wrong.
Eh what? The problem is that Apple is forcing the 30% margin on all sellers.
Lets take your example and you set your price at $10 at iBookstore. Apple takes $3 and gives you $7.
You want to sell it at Amazon so you sell the book to Amazon at the same $7. But Amazon HAS to sell it at $10. They cannot take only $2 and sell it at $9 because of your contract with Apple to not have it on sale anywhere else for less than $10. This is price fixing and artificially raises the cost of the books to the consumer for Apple's profits.
Imagine if Walmart put this rule saying that no store can sell any products that they sell at a lower cost.
What is shifty about wanting the best price? If Store A sees that Store B is getting a better price from the manufacturer of course Store A wants the manufacturer to match that price.
The issue is not about the manufacturer's price to stores A and B, but the sale price.
Store B can't discount it below Store A's sale price(which has 30% profit margin built into it). So if Store B is okay with just 20% margin, they can''t sell it for that, because that would violate the manufacturer's contract with store A not to have it on sale anywhere for less. Note that the manufacturer's price is the same to both stores in this example.
And what has that got to do with anything? They spent a significant amount of money buying Android and then for the resources to develop the new versions for over seven years when started copying iOS. And they're dumping it on the market for free just to buy market position.
This article compares Apple, a hardware maker, with Google and Android, who provides software to hardware makers? How is that a fair comparison?
Of course it's not. It's from Asymco, the home of the Apple faithful, who try to manipulate stats into something to crow abot for Apple at every turn.
If instead, Horace was a Microsoft fan, he would be crowing about how Microsoft rules the web server market because IIS captures 80% of the profitshare of web servers whereas Apache and Nginx get close to zero profit.
I'm sure Windows Phone will be as successful as the Zune, the Kin and the Spot Watch.
Anything Apple makes will be as successful as the Newton and Ping. And anything Google makes will be as successful as Buzz and Wave(and G+?).
See, I too can make non-sequitur arguments by digging up past failures and ignoring successes like the XBox and Kinect(which is the fastest selling consumer electronic device ever).
>This was a trojan. Trojans are different. They typically need to trick the user into installing them, and they do not self-propagate.
Sorry to break your bubble, but this was a drive-by exploit using a hole in Java.
>But the distinction is lost on people, such as yourself who refuse to believe there is any difference between the Bagel worm and a program that tricks the user to deltree c:\*.* or rm -rf/*
From what I read, the payload is delivered when you visit certain sites, but as a Trojan, it asks for and requires the user to enter their admin password to install.
Read better, the malware infects the machine even if the user does not enter an admin password.
...frankly, misrepresenting what your employer has created.
I was trying to have a civil conversation with you and I am actually in agreement with some of your post (the very reason I pasted Paul's comment here).. but I find your accusations sickening. The only time I was in Seattle was to interview for Amazon for a Linux position and even attended a live Stallman talk, but dumbass anti-MS zealots like you can't even see past your fucking nose and instead hurl accusations of shilling. Fuck you and to hell with you and your types. Go back to Groklaw and Techrights. I am sick of this bullshit.
Slashdot Mirror
> Any company to work that closely with MS always gets burned.
Lets see, Intel,AMD, Nvidia, HTC(who started out as a only-Windows Mobile OEM), Dell, HP, Sony, ASUS, Acer, Samsung, Lenovo... all of these got burnt and didn't make lots of profits because of their partnership with MS right?
Good job submitter, on getting the rabit, rambling and incoherent anti-Nokia troll Tomi Ahonen's article as the main link instead of the many other saner sources of the same news. I am just glad that it's not a rambling ten page mess as his usual articles tend to be.
> I'm just wondering how Eliop got a worse deal than that past the Nokia board and lawyers though?
If you don't think Elop was specifically hired by the board to do precisely what he did, then you're really naive. The board realized that the strategy of trying to create another incompatible ecosystem and trying to attract developers was doomed to fail from the get go and installed Elop as the CEO to do what he did.
Atleast now, Nokia gets lots of advertising dollars and an outright $1bn/yr platform support from Microsoft, a luxury that RIMM does not have.
If you want more details, they are here: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_24/b4232056703101.htm
From http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/how-far-do-google-drives-terms-go-in-owning-your-files/75228
Google Drive terms:
“Your Content in our Services: When you upload or otherwise submit content to our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide licence to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes that we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content
Dropbox's and Skydrive's terms are more sane.
WP7 does allow apps to run in the background. It does not allow apps to access certain APIs while running in the background, such as VOIP controls (e.g., Skype). That's not too dissimilar from what Apple does on iOS.
With WP7, background tasks cannot run constantly like they can do on Android. The OS schedules them every 30 min(on battery and cellular data) or every 15 mins(on plugged in power and WiFi) or totally shut off (battery is low and the battery saver is enabled).
Windows Phone 7.5 suspends apps when they leave the foreground. The only background activity that an app may do are periodic background agents which run 30 minutes apart and some streaming functionality through the multimedia framework. If your app falls outside that model (as Skype does) then tough shit you're going to have to gimp it to make it work on Windows Phone.
The stupid part is Windows 8 is going to implement a similarly retarded scheme for Metro apps. When they're not in the foreground they're suspended. So tough luck if you were using a video conferencing or VOIP app or a multiplayer game and you want to check an email in the middle of it. Because if you do then you'll probably terminate your session when you step away from it. Multitasking is so yesterday.
Retarded scheme? Haven't we learned anything from the system trays and toolbars of typical users? From Real Player agent, Quicktime agent and everything constantly running in the background? Now imagine all of those, running on a tablet or phone with a limited battery and with limited RAM. can you imagine the battery life and memory bloat? It has been proved that the apps abuse the privilege that they're granted and it's too much of a chore for non-power users to babysit them so they don't slow down the machine or eat up battery in an hour.
Also, Windows 8 desktop won't have such limitations, so you can do all what you want. Not to mention that Windows 8 Metro supports two side-by-side applications unlike iPad and Android tablets, which you have conveniently failed to mention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOYMCuBbt4E
The app still doesn't do basic stuff that the Skype app on Android does fine, like being able to receive calls when the app is not active. From what I read, this is a limitation of the platform. I really don't understand the glowing reviews for the Lumia 900 and the relentless praise for Windows Phone 7, in glowing reviews like this one: http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/15/nokia-lumia-900-review-this-ones-a-no-brainer/
It seems people can't stop making excuses for WP7, just because it's different to iOS and Android. It doesn't support dual core processors and resolutions higher than 800x480, and now it looks like no current phone will get an upgrade to Windows Phone 8, which is even worse than Android fragmentation issues. And it sounds like a repeat the HTC HD2 story, the HD2 was never upgraded to Windows 7 despite having the hardware to support it. It comes with a childish and uncustomizable homescreen. The applications screen consists of one long scrolling list that becomes a pain once you have a few apps installed. It was clever when it came out, but as Joshua Topolsky said for WP7 it's time we stopped giving it a pass.
It is not a technical limitation of the platform but a rather deliberate one that was put in place so that the battery does not run down because of background tasks.
See Android with it's background services (some that are installed by carriers and that cannot even be uninstalled) and battery life problems. Anyway, this (and other limitations you listed) should be gone in WP8.
The Windows RT tablets will come bundled(for free?) with the Mother of All Enterprise apps, Office and the article doesn't even mention that.
>Most of the hardware you describe doesn't exist except for the Yoga which is Intel not ARM. Windows RT is for ARM.
Your OP said, "nothing on the horizon" and now it's switched to something that "exists"?
So you want an ARM tablet/laptop hybrid and x86 ones don't qualify the requirement?
I think ASUS is going to come out with one of those, but they're of limited utility since only Office(comes bundled) will run the desktop and no existing Win32 apps.
You're contradicting your own arguments. If Windows RT lacks key enterprise tools because it's targeted at consumers, why would it have "a whole host of enterprise features", as you put it?
There is no contradiction.
Have you heard of BYOD? (Bring Your Own Device)
Windows RT is supported in that scenario, that's why it has enterprise features but not to the same extent as on-premise PCs.
My main point was that the article did not even mention the blog published by Microsoft which is the biggest chunk of information ever released about Windows RT's enterprise support.
Take some time to read this:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/04/19/managing-quot-byo-quot-pcs-in-the-enterprise-including-woa.aspx
There are a whole host of enterprise features that Windows RT supports.
If they're not enough, you can get a Windows 8 x86 tablet, which will support anything that a desktop PC currently supports.
Why didn't the article link to that blog post or talk about it? It's plain FUD targeted at people like you and the MS haters have lapped it up hook, line and sinker like they've done with the author's previous articles. I am sure you can make a case that the features are not enough, but not even mentioning them AT ALL shows that it's a FUD article designed to drive page hits.
See the submitter of this fake benchmark article:
http://tech.slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=story&sid=10/02/18/0429258
Look at the submitter of this Slashdot story. It's the same Computer World guy.
Here's Slashdot post about how the above article was a fake.
http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/02/21/2329249/windows-7-memory-usage-critic-outed-as-fraud
They are indeed supporting as a BYOD (Bring Your Own Device), which makes more sense for a lightweight tablet.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/04/19/managing-quot-byo-quot-pcs-in-the-enterprise-including-woa.aspx
Microsoft has always had a strong enterprise relationship, so it's more likely that the lack of IT features is due to a rushed release schedule rather than sales strategy, especially considering that the iPad has been seeing rising enterprise adoption rates, which Microsoft is almost certainly aware of. Microsoft just didn't have a choice, because they're so far behind in the tablet market that they needed to release something at all costs.
Exactly, you're perfectly explained why the XBox 360 can't join a domain either.
They must have run out of time! After all they always had a strong enterprise relationship, so the explanation cannot be that the consoles are targeted at consumers. Maybe they'll have time to add domain join and group policy to the XBox 720, I can't wait to run SharePoint and BizTalk on it.
Hybrid tablet/laptops would have been great for Windows 8. But there is nothing on the horizon that remotely fits this vision. Intel is pushing for ultrabooks favoring less weight and more power efficiency instead of multi-touch transformable tablets. Seems like MS designed an OS for hardware that doesn't exist and even if it did is a very small percentage of users instead of optimizing for the hardware that is in the near future.
Have you been living under a rock?
Have you checked out the Ideapad Yoga with 10 multitouch points? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIGUwyAXpgQ
And the news that around 32 touch models will debut this year with Windows 8? http://www.informationweek.com/news/hardware/handheld/232900536
More: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/04/intel-cove-point-ultrabook-tablet-hybrid-running-windows-8/
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9226083/Intel_working_with_10_vendors_on_Windows_8_tablets?taxonomyId=12
I think the reason you think the hardware doesn't exist is that they're keeping it under wraps so that they don't cannibalize existing sales now, which makes sense really.
What? I believe he was referring to the auto loans. You can get a car with zero down these days.
Do you realize that AT&T actually pays Nokia a lot for the device and then subsidizes it?
The phone is $449 unlocked($349 if you count the $100 rebate).
They're not paying the customer when the customer has to sign up for an expensive contract plan for 24 months with the threat of an Early Termination Fee.
Indeed
http://gizmodo.com/5700063/apple-bans-android-magazine-from-the-app-store
I have a book in the iBookstore. I set the price on it. Apple sells it for that price and gives me 70%.
I have the same book in the other bookstores. I have no control over the price. They give me what they want, which is half of what Apple gives me. I have no choice or say in the matter.
And the Department of Justice sues Apple? That's just wrong.
Eh what? The problem is that Apple is forcing the 30% margin on all sellers.
Lets take your example and you set your price at $10 at iBookstore. Apple takes $3 and gives you $7.
You want to sell it at Amazon so you sell the book to Amazon at the same $7. But Amazon HAS to sell it at $10. They cannot take only $2 and sell it at $9 because of your contract with Apple to not have it on sale anywhere else for less than $10. This is price fixing and artificially raises the cost of the books to the consumer for Apple's profits.
Imagine if Walmart put this rule saying that no store can sell any products that they sell at a lower cost.
What is shifty about wanting the best price? If Store A sees that Store B is getting a better price from the manufacturer of course Store A wants the manufacturer to match that price.
The issue is not about the manufacturer's price to stores A and B, but the sale price.
Store B can't discount it below Store A's sale price(which has 30% profit margin built into it). So if Store B is okay with just 20% margin, they can''t sell it for that, because that would violate the manufacturer's contract with store A not to have it on sale anywhere for less. Note that the manufacturer's price is the same to both stores in this example.
Most of the OS wasn't written by Google at all.
And what has that got to do with anything? They spent a significant amount of money buying Android and then for the resources to develop the new versions for over seven years when started copying iOS. And they're dumping it on the market for free just to buy market position.
This article compares Apple, a hardware maker, with Google and Android, who provides software to hardware makers? How is that a fair comparison?
Of course it's not. It's from Asymco, the home of the Apple faithful, who try to manipulate stats into something to crow abot for Apple at every turn.
If instead, Horace was a Microsoft fan, he would be crowing about how Microsoft rules the web server market because IIS captures 80% of the profitshare of web servers whereas Apache and Nginx get close to zero profit.
I'm sure Windows Phone will be as successful as the Zune, the Kin and the Spot Watch.
Anything Apple makes will be as successful as the Newton and Ping.
And anything Google makes will be as successful as Buzz and Wave(and G+?).
See, I too can make non-sequitur arguments by digging up past failures and ignoring successes like the XBox and Kinect(which is the fastest selling consumer electronic device ever).
>This was a trojan. Trojans are different. They typically need to trick the user into installing them, and they do not self-propagate.
Sorry to break your bubble, but this was a drive-by exploit using a hole in Java.
>But the distinction is lost on people, such as yourself who refuse to believe there is any difference between the Bagel worm and a program that tricks the user to deltree c:\*.* or rm -rf /*
Looks like that applies to you, not him.
From what I read, the payload is delivered when you visit certain sites, but as a Trojan, it asks for and requires the user to enter their admin password to install.
Read better, the malware infects the machine even if the user does not enter an admin password.
Well they won't on the ARM edition...
Exactly. And Microsoft is throwing Firefox and Chrome a bone by making special exceptions for browsers on ARM tablets.
Ask Mozilla how that iPad port is turning out....
...frankly, misrepresenting what your employer has created.
I was trying to have a civil conversation with you and I am actually in agreement with some of your post (the very reason I pasted Paul's comment here).. but I find your accusations sickening. The only time I was in Seattle was to interview for Amazon for a Linux position and even attended a live Stallman talk, but dumbass anti-MS zealots like you can't even see past your fucking nose and instead hurl accusations of shilling. Fuck you and to hell with you and your types. Go back to Groklaw and Techrights. I am sick of this bullshit.