I am sorry, I'm neither a shill nor paid. There seem to be a lot of zealots on this site though....
>Then why did Microsoft remove the ability to turn off Metro? You know, for people who sit at a desk and do work.
You make it sound as if they removed the desktop apps. You can still use all the deskop apps and use the start screen instead of the start menu.
Anyway here's the long answer from Paul Thurrott:
. Microsoft could simply have made a Windows 8 that was to Windows 7 as Windows 7 was to Windows Vista; that is, an evolution. And Microsoft could have adapted Windows Phone to work on tablets, following the strategies of both Apple and Google. Certainly, many within Microsoft wanted the company to do just that.
In such a scenario, I personally see Windows on a slow, gradual decline. And I see the very real possibility--almost a certainty, really--that this Windows Phone tablet system follows in the footsteps of Zune and makes absolutely no dent at all. It is like Windows Phone: Technically excellent, highly usable, and utterly ignored. And when you combine that failure with the slow decline of Windows, you get a steep, steep decline for Windows in the overall market for general purpose computing. In other words, a disaster. A disaster that would make people pine for the comparatively stable days of Windows Vista.
Of course, Microsoft is not doing that. They are not going towards certain failure but are instead making a big bet--A. Big. Bet.--on something that is unknown and unproven and not necessarily destined for success. But in making this big bet, Microsoft is, I think, doing the right thing. Not in the details, necessarily, but in the broad strokes.
Then be resigned to stupid UI decisions that make your less computer-savvy friends always ask you the same dumb questions to which you'll have to always ask "is this in metro or is this on the desktop" and they'll say "huh?" Microsoft has always made big claims about consistency of UI, and if they leave the desktop paradigm in with Metro, they'll be making their own biggest cardinal sin.
The desktop paradigm is dead. Microsoft smote the ground and declared it thus with Metro.
-- BMO
Okay whatever, you are entitled to your opinion, however lame or dumb it may be, but don't go spreading canards that the Desktop is going away for RTM.
I doubt you will answer it seeing as you are a "paided" poster.
Why does Metro make you guys so defensive? Isn't it supposed to be superior to the Desktop? Isn't it the latest and greatest from Microsoft? Wouldn't you/rather/ have such a superior interface take over as the premier interface of all operating systems ever?
As a Windows booster, you must think that Metro is the cat's balls.
Well....
Isn't it?
-- BMO
WTF is a "paided" poster? At least get your grammar right.
Metro is good for things like browsers and casual consumer apps and is perfect for something like a portable tablet., but is unsuitable for many productivity apps like Photoshop, AutoCad, Office or Visual Studio, thus the Desktop lives on.
Now how cool is that. A new threat is found for the Mac platform and it's in a Microsoft product of course. It's an improvement on the previous round, though. Last time it was about malware that required you to actually install it:D
However, it's an interesting counter-point to the commenters who regularly comment(and get modded up to 11) "How about MS fix security in Windows instead of taking down botnets/shipping antivirus etc.). There is no way to secure an OS from application exploits short of iOS style lockdown, which these very commenters would slag as "TAKING AWAY MY FREEEDOMZZZ". Sorry, but blaming Windows holes has become passe, especially after malware for OS X and Android(run on a Linux kernel which we are told is secure compared to Windows) has come out.
I think widespread usage is a good metric and not just gloating over profit like the Apple fans like to do. "Apple derived the most profit from the cell phone industry." they say, to put down Android's usage gains. By that metric, IIS is totally killing Apache and Nginx in the web server space, but most folks consider Apache beats IIS. Which of this is true?
Because stock price reflects the next quarter, and everyone knew that the transition, even if ultimately successful, would be painful in the short term.
Microsoft offers free backstabing to all manufacturers, and for Nokia they are offering technical engineering traps and bait, which is a pretty good deal compared to what Android is offering.
There, FIFY. It is like C-people can't bother googling a company name before closing multi-billion dollar deals with them.
Reference? I searched but I only found companies like HP, Dell, HTC, Intel who made hundreds of billions off their deals with MS. Stop with the retarded meme already.
You make some good points. You are right that companies/univs should not upgrade on a whim and should stick with what works. The focus should be on getting work done.
However, as people get used to the new UI at home and with tablets, they may request an upgrade at work too. This might take a long time but it could happen. Also, the new touch based tablets/laptops might be a good fit for students and for employees to take into meetings.
If you think WIndows 8 is too different, how do you think users will adapt to an alternative OS and what will the training costs be? If you choose Apple, the hardware is much more expensive and Apple forces upgrades by taking away support for older software very very quickly while Windows 7 will be supported for a long long time. How will it affect your tight IT budget?
I did not understand why you feel Windows 8 supports only 3 or 4 applications at a time? Also, why do you think Office does not integrate seamlessly with Windows 8? Hit the desktop tile, start Office and it works exactly like Windows 7 (except it's much more lean and faster).
Windows is used by a billion people, if they stopped changing the OS, we would still be stuck at MSDOS 6.22 or Windows 3.11 for Workgroups.
Looks like what you're expecting out of Windows 8 is a Windows 7 Service Pack. That already exists and is called Windows 7 which will be supported for many many years to come. But the rest of us want to move to something better.
The problem comes from Stallman's idea that all software should be FOSS and money should be made from support(Stallman isn't opposed to selling the software, but having a buildable source will allow any user to post the software for any cost or free). So the money to be made is squeezed into only support. Take RedHat. The community immediately took the sources and made CentOS which is used in many small businesses instead of paying for Red Hat.
Maybe some companies and developers can live on giving support, but for the vast majority of software developers, thats not possible when anyone out there can take your code and build their own. Apply this model to the Android or Apple app stores and there would disaster with the software clones. Already games are being cloned without the source code available and this is a huge problem. Forcing the apps to be open source will lead of chaos and there will be no incentive to create big games like Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja and Infinity Blade(cost a million or more develop). What should they do? Sell support for Angry Birds?
Winsupersite is a Windows discussion site- Pro-Tip: See the name.
Slashdot is news for nerds and there's lot of new software and hardware coming with Windows 8. (Linux will start exploiting the new hardware that MS pioneers now). Talking about new technology and posting videos of brand new form factors is not shilling. I did not hate on Linux in my posts.
If you think this is a Linux/centric site, then you're the zealot and the shill. You're just a hater, not a technology lover. Crawl back to techrights.org and/or groklaw with your fellow wankers.
Another pro-tip, the signature goes in the signature option, not in the post. Also, we can see your name on top, why sign it again below like a moron? Oh right, you're just too dumb and stupid to do these simple things that no one here does.
>You may notice those products are each made by a different company than Windows 8 is. Query whether that may change the result.
Slashdot and posters had a TON of FUD and +5 insightful posts dissing Windows 7. It was such a huge failure that only half a billion people bought it right?
Have you paid attention at all to the Microsoft astroturfing that has showed up here in the past few years?
Articles even slightly critical of anything Microsoft are met with a large copy-paste of some pre-written text within minutes. This is especially apparent when it becomes the first post. Like in this thread, itself. Go look at the first post.
-- BMO
First post-er here.
One word for you, STFU you circlejerking karma whore hater zealot. Lets all have 1000 posts all negative about MS and then question anyone who dares post anything contrary to that.
Stop blathering about astroturfing, atleast about me doing it. I copy pasted part of the comment from my own comment on another site, since the point I wanted to make was the same. God forbid there be one post contrary to the hate fest circlejerk on here and the accusers come out. BURN THE HEATHENS.
Don't use Metro apps on your monitor then. It's not as if they stole your apps. They all will run and will continue to run and be made as per user demand. You're acting as if they just turned off your ability to run Win32 apps.
>I find the whole popup cover the screen thing very jarring.
I am sure some people using Windows 3.11 found the start menu in Windows 95 jarring as well.
Slashdot Mirror
It's in the works.
http://www.slashgear.com/google-confirms-metro-style-chrome-for-windows-8-13218100/
I am sorry, I'm neither a shill nor paid. There seem to be a lot of zealots on this site though....
>Then why did Microsoft remove the ability to turn off Metro? You know, for people who sit at a desk and do work.
You make it sound as if they removed the desktop apps. You can still use all the deskop apps and use the start screen instead of the start menu.
Anyway here's the long answer from Paul Thurrott:
. Microsoft could simply have made a Windows 8 that was to Windows 7 as Windows 7 was to Windows Vista; that is, an evolution. And Microsoft could have adapted Windows Phone to work on tablets, following the strategies of both Apple and Google. Certainly, many within Microsoft wanted the company to do just that.
In such a scenario, I personally see Windows on a slow, gradual decline. And I see the very real possibility--almost a certainty, really--that this Windows Phone tablet system follows in the footsteps of Zune and makes absolutely no dent at all. It is like Windows Phone: Technically excellent, highly usable, and utterly ignored. And when you combine that failure with the slow decline of Windows, you get a steep, steep decline for Windows in the overall market for general purpose computing. In other words, a disaster. A disaster that would make people pine for the comparatively stable days of Windows Vista.
Of course, Microsoft is not doing that. They are not going towards certain failure but are instead making a big bet--A. Big. Bet.--on something that is unknown and unproven and not necessarily destined for success. But in making this big bet, Microsoft is, I think, doing the right thing. Not in the details, necessarily, but in the broad strokes.
Then be resigned to stupid UI decisions that make your less computer-savvy friends always ask you the same dumb questions to which you'll have to always ask "is this in metro or is this on the desktop" and they'll say "huh?" Microsoft has always made big claims about consistency of UI, and if they leave the desktop paradigm in with Metro, they'll be making their own biggest cardinal sin.
The desktop paradigm is dead. Microsoft smote the ground and declared it thus with Metro.
--
BMO
Okay whatever, you are entitled to your opinion, however lame or dumb it may be, but don't go spreading canards that the Desktop is going away for RTM.
Furthermore, I have a question.
I doubt you will answer it seeing as you are a "paided" poster.
Why does Metro make you guys so defensive? Isn't it supposed to be superior to the Desktop? Isn't it the latest and greatest from Microsoft? Wouldn't you /rather/ have such a superior interface take over as the premier interface of all operating systems ever?
As a Windows booster, you must think that Metro is the cat's balls.
Well....
Isn't it?
--
BMO
WTF is a "paided" poster? At least get your grammar right.
Metro is good for things like browsers and casual consumer apps and is perfect for something like a portable tablet., but is unsuitable for many productivity apps like Photoshop, AutoCad, Office or Visual Studio, thus the Desktop lives on.
You seem to think that the Desktop paradigm will survive the RTM.
It won't.
Have fun with Metro, Windows guys.
--
BMO
It will. Microsoft will not make existing apps incompatible with Windows 8.
Stop spewing lame FUD.
Now how cool is that. A new threat is found for the Mac platform and it's in a Microsoft product of course. :D
It's an improvement on the previous round, though. Last time it was about malware that required you to actually install it
However, it's an interesting counter-point to the commenters who regularly comment(and get modded up to 11) "How about MS fix security in Windows instead of taking down botnets/shipping antivirus etc.). There is no way to secure an OS from application exploits short of iOS style lockdown, which these very commenters would slag as "TAKING AWAY MY FREEEDOMZZZ". Sorry, but blaming Windows holes has become passe, especially after malware for OS X and Android(run on a Linux kernel which we are told is secure compared to Windows) has come out.
I think widespread usage is a good metric and not just gloating over profit like the Apple fans like to do. "Apple derived the most profit from the cell phone industry." they say, to put down Android's usage gains. By that metric, IIS is totally killing Apache and Nginx in the web server space, but most folks consider Apache beats IIS. Which of this is true?
Does this mean that Microsoft is actually putting some thought into their OS for a change?
An example of too much thought being put into an OS: Hurd.
You can't convert all images to SVG. Try zooming a PDF which has images, and see how the images get blurry while the text remains sharp.
All the images seem to loading fine, maybe you need to upgrade the RAM of your Hurd machine to 32MB.
The app developers are the ones that will be using bitmaps, not MS.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/cc817881
Seems to work pretty well and fast in my limited use.
Because stock price reflects the next quarter, and everyone knew that the transition, even if ultimately successful, would be painful in the short term.
There, FIFY. It is like C-people can't bother googling a company name before closing multi-billion dollar deals with them.
Reference? I searched but I only found companies like HP, Dell, HTC, Intel who made hundreds of billions off their deals with MS. Stop with the retarded meme already.
They have recently declined to pledge that they won't sue over standards essential patents like H.264, instead of demanding 2.5% of proceeds of devices(ad revenues in this case). Apple and Microsoft have pledged this.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/02/regulators-to-google-you-can-buy-motorola-but-we-still-dont-trust-you.ars
Interesting to see Google becoming the patent trolls over H.264 that it previously warned others over and recommended WebM.
You make some good points. You are right that companies/univs should not upgrade on a whim and should stick with what works. The focus should be on getting work done.
However, as people get used to the new UI at home and with tablets, they may request an upgrade at work too. This might take a long time but it could happen. Also, the new touch based tablets/laptops might be a good fit for students and for employees to take into meetings.
If you think WIndows 8 is too different, how do you think users will adapt to an alternative OS and what will the training costs be? If you choose Apple, the hardware is much more expensive and Apple forces upgrades by taking away support for older software very very quickly while Windows 7 will be supported for a long long time. How will it affect your tight IT budget?
I did not understand why you feel Windows 8 supports only 3 or 4 applications at a time? Also, why do you think Office does not integrate seamlessly with Windows 8? Hit the desktop tile, start Office and it works exactly like Windows 7 (except it's much more lean and faster).
Windows is used by a billion people, if they stopped changing the OS, we would still be stuck at MSDOS 6.22 or Windows 3.11 for Workgroups.
Looks like what you're expecting out of Windows 8 is a Windows 7 Service Pack. That already exists and is called Windows 7 which will be supported for many many years to come. But the rest of us want to move to something better.
http://www.windows7hacker.com/index.php/2012/02/when-the-official-support-to-my-windows-expires/ [windows7hacker.com]
If there is a OS that is better supported, let me know, I might switch to that too.
Or maybe you just think all this are FUD and marketing too. In that case, let me know what you're smoking. I might switch to it too.
Stallman is some person now?
The problem comes from Stallman's idea that all software should be FOSS and money should be made from support(Stallman isn't opposed to selling the software, but having a buildable source will allow any user to post the software for any cost or free). So the money to be made is squeezed into only support. Take RedHat. The community immediately took the sources and made CentOS which is used in many small businesses instead of paying for Red Hat.
Maybe some companies and developers can live on giving support, but for the vast majority of software developers, thats not possible when anyone out there can take your code and build their own. Apply this model to the Android or Apple app stores and there would disaster with the software clones. Already games are being cloned without the source code available and this is a huge problem. Forcing the apps to be open source will lead of chaos and there will be no incentive to create big games like Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja and Infinity Blade(cost a million or more develop). What should they do? Sell support for Angry Birds?
I copy pasted some parts from another comment I just wrote on another site, since the subject was the same(see how some links are broken).
Nothing sinister about it, relax :)
Winsupersite is a Windows discussion site- Pro-Tip: See the name.
Slashdot is news for nerds and there's lot of new software and hardware coming with Windows 8. (Linux will start exploiting the new hardware that MS pioneers now). Talking about new technology and posting videos of brand new form factors is not shilling. I did not hate on Linux in my posts.
If you think this is a Linux/centric site, then you're the zealot and the shill. You're just a hater, not a technology lover. Crawl back to techrights.org and/or groklaw with your fellow wankers.
Another pro-tip, the signature goes in the signature option, not in the post. Also, we can see your name on top, why sign it again below like a moron? Oh right, you're just too dumb and stupid to do these simple things that no one here does.
Look who's talking.
I think most rational people have already left this site in disgust because of people like you and the moderation.
>There is no shortage of Microsoft PR sites. Go back to ZDNET.
You hang out at BoycottNovell/Groklaw right?
>Because Windows 8 needs defenders, since it can't stand on its own on its merits.
I thought this site was about discussing things with nerds, not haters, accusers and zealots like you. But looks like I am wrong.
>You may notice those products are each made by a different company than Windows 8 is. Query whether that may change the result.
Slashdot and posters had a TON of FUD and +5 insightful posts dissing Windows 7. It was such a huge failure that only half a billion people bought it right?
Have you paid attention at all to the Microsoft astroturfing that has showed up here in the past few years?
Articles even slightly critical of anything Microsoft are met with a large copy-paste of some pre-written text within minutes. This is especially apparent when it becomes the first post. Like in this thread, itself. Go look at the first post.
--
BMO
First post-er here.
One word for you, STFU you circlejerking karma whore hater zealot. Lets all have 1000 posts all negative about MS and then question anyone who dares post anything contrary to that.
Stop blathering about astroturfing, atleast about me doing it. I copy pasted part of the comment from my own comment on another site, since the point I wanted to make was the same. God forbid there be one post contrary to the hate fest circlejerk on here and the accusers come out. BURN THE HEATHENS.
"Try doing that with an iPad."
there was nothing in the video you can't do with an iPad.
You can also make an octopus by nailing more legs to a dog, but it will be a very shitty octupus.
Don't use Metro apps on your monitor then. It's not as if they stole your apps. They all will run and will continue to run and be made as per user demand. You're acting as if they just turned off your ability to run Win32 apps.
>I find the whole popup cover the screen thing very jarring.
I am sure some people using Windows 3.11 found the start menu in Windows 95 jarring as well.