saddly enough i know of one company that doesnt' allow cameras in the production facility due to posiable OSHA violations - not that the phone would violate OSHA rules - but they don't want photo evidence of OSHA violations being sent out before they company even knows they exist, very paranoid but true.. they are worried that a disgruntaled employee would set up an area to be unsafe take the picture and then turn the company in.
It is easier for the company to disalow cameras without permission than to paranoid polecing of everyone
well i and others that i work with know.. we are out side consultants.. some times we are only cleared for X area and if we have to go through a restricted area well - and it isn't "ultra super top" it is just information that they don't want shared with either the public at large or competting companies.
he doesn't have to work for the CIA.. just about every fortune 500 company doesn't allow camera's (including the ones in phones) into their R&D departments. also any company that has a unique proccess for manufacturing doesn't allow them.
when you go work for the CIA or other places with that level of information security.. you don't get to take any phone and some times you arn't even allowed to see where you are going.
it amazes me how banks are suposted to be secure.. and think they do everything perfect.. then i see the reality..
we had someone apply for a job here.. they where an ex bank data center admin.
in the profolio that they provided to show what they had worked on.. was a detailed layout of the data center and all the interconnects between servers and the branch offices.
looking through it even had detailed info on all the os and software and respective patch levels for each server in the data center.
sadly it was recent - ver recent.. they had printed it out with in a week of handing it to me.. after seeing that.. there was no way we would ever hire them..
you are thinking from your own personal point of view.. and if that was your attitude towards change you wouldn't last long in a changing envoriment. I work with companies that have doen this every day.. some go over board some do it right - we even teach them ways of doing it and help facilitate it.
one key thing is never look at it as "if you where hit buy a bus/beer truck" - that is when people feel they are writing their own jobs so they can be replaced.
you have to take to a level where they see value - suchs as starting with complex tasks that eat away at their time and make their job's annoying. you take that task and you proccess map it and you stream line it and then you document it. once you can show that the proccess works the person will be more than happy to start doing it for other tasks. At that point you can start to put them together to map out everything and see where you need more documentation.
it doesn't always lead to layoffs - that only happens when people up high don't undertand what is happening. and normaly it is a very short sighted thing to do. i will say alot of times it results in reorginization at diffrent level's.. but that can be very good if it is going to help effecinecy.
and the comment of a single employee has nothing to gane and only something to lose - means that that employee doesn't quite undertand what work is and has no motivation to work for that company. all they are looking at is i do X and i get paid Z.. if they would realize that by documenting what they are helping facilitate improvement, which will help them do C and make V.
things change - people need to undertand change - this is why you need people who undertand people and undertand change to facilitate the change.
Where I work we teach people how to do this task correctly with out insulting the worker.
One thing you have to remember when writing job/work packets or single point lesson plans is you assume that the person doing it isn't and idiot... you document what needs to be documented - not the placement of every single screw in full detail but rather what to watch for and a reference to the machine guide which will then have all the screw placements.
On top of that you have your job scheduler be required to update the documentation by getting feed back from the people who use it.
what this allows in plant maintenance is that if you have x people of a certain trade skill some better than others - all will benefit from the added experience and knowledge added in from when the workers submit changes to the SPL's - it also allows you to get new people and hand them what they need to go do a job with minimal supervision and training (they are skilled workers after all)
Documenting your process is one of the best things you can do - you just have to do it in a way which facilitates good information but also leaves out the mundane info that makes the worker feel insulted. Cause if the trades men feel insulted by the documentation they won't use it and it won't get updated and now you have poorly documented job packs that can (if the work has changed and not been updated) cause more harm than good.
You also need to make sure that everyone has the option and ability to submit changes to the job flows but there needs to be only one person that can change that document - and they need to be qualified to it.
well i personaly would assume that as people can do jig saw puzzles - and that people manage to mend broken glass and other broken artifacts quite well that if you take someone with the right equipment (say Intel and their fab lab) they could get it back to a reasonable shape - also mix it with the constant charge in each cell - you may have to read each one manualy but it is like all things if you can do it once you can do it a million times - it just takes time.
Considering that intel recently showed off some of it's new chip fab equipment where they can take a fabed CPU - remove the heat spreader place it in a special board in a special box where they can control the clock rate al the way down to a basic pause and read each transister state in real time and even change the state and even remove and add traces in real time. that your rather simplistic flash drive compared to a new 45nm cpu would be a walk in the park.
all i was pointing out is that your hammer isn't going to remove the data - sure it might smash the chip into a million peices but the data is still there in each and every cell - all that has to happen is for it to be put back together and then read- sure it isn't going to read by ust shoving it back in your usb port - but there is many more diffrent ways to read the data..
it all comes down to what is the value of the data to the person trying to recover it. if it is worth the time effort and cost then it can be done
i would never agree that "no amount of 'forensics' can recover broken silicon chips"
sure it might be hard.. but it is still more than possiable - the trick is how much is it worth to the person/people trying to get the data back.
i was trying to find a better artical where they went over how ontrack recovered 90+% (don't remember exactly) from the drives on the 2003 shuttle that turned into a fireball and shreaded..
i seriously doubt that your hammer would do much - and as for the other person that responded to you.. flushing it woln't do much good.. as well all they need to do is find it..
again.. it is all dependent on how much it is worth to the person trying to get the data back.
saddly i live in the US.. and i did the math for the "unemployment pay" here you need to be laid off and unable to find a job.. once you get "unemployment pay" you have to show at regual intervals that you are trying to find a job and have attended interviews.. what you get paid (last time i checked) was 50% of what your last job was.... and you don't pay taxes on it......
so i got to thinking.. if i got a t-shirt that said "i kill babies for fun" and didn't bath (basicly making NO one want to employ me).. i could sit at home most of the time and get 50% of what i make..
take my pay now.. realize that i pay 30% to 401k/retierment stuff.. and another 30% to taxes..
i could get laied off and collect unemployment.. get more money per month (take home) than i do now.. and all i would lose is not having a nice nest egg when i am 65.. although i would still get SS.. and the way the market is going right now i may not have a nice nest egg anyways.. hell i have lost 15% of my 401k just this month..
so yea.. as messed up as it is.. unemployment isn't that bad.. sicking really that that 30% taxes i am paying is paying for someone else to do what i jsut discribed
weird.. what where you using that caused w2k to be unstable past sp2? i have never had any issue with it and service packs breaking software - usaualy it increased software support..
w2k was nice - and still is.. too bad it support cycle ended this past summer - while i personaly like and enjoy server2003 (again a very nice small foot print) i am not liking what i see in 2008.. and long for the simplicity of 2k
oh i agree with that - it was just your first post was "car pool" and i was just pointing out that it really isn't an option as trust me if i could i would.. a few years ago my wife was working only 1/2 mile from my office.. and we car pooled almost every day.. i do miss it.. but it isn't always an option (like now)
I agree that this idea of increasing tolls to cut down on the number of drivers could work - but i personaly feel any money made off of it needs to go into increasing public transportation and/or increasing the infrastructure to accommodate for the people it kicked off the roads.
i think you miss understood me.. yes we do look at time frames for past jobs.. but we also ask up front how long they expect to be here - people are more than happy to tell you what they think and how things are going with them.
we don't just go off past jobs - that wouldn't be fair.. we fully understand that if you get a job and afterwards find out it is complete hell hole you are going to get out. but based on the persons personality and their history and how and with what they answer questions you can tell who is going to be here and who is going to take the next job with the smallest increase in pay.
we do alot of work with alot of companies - we tend to build relationships between our people and the companies they are working with - we can't aford to have high turnover as the people we work with don't want a new face every time we come out..
i don't feel it is short-sighted at all as we do take the time to invest in our people - if i have someone who is smart and a hard worker willing to learn.. we will train them from the ground up.. as long as they have a basic understanding and are they type of people that value learning we will train them and even put them through school for the skills they need to do the job. I know this first hand as they did it for me.
that doesn't always work.. the closest person that works in the same area as me (set of buildings) lives a 30min drive from my house.. also we are not on route of each other and work. also my wife works 45min west while i work 40min north.. (that is rush hour times)
also busses don't come within 15 miles of my house and there is no subway..
while it seems i don't live in a big city - it is a large one.. not huge like LA or NY or someof the crazier places..
but car pooling isn't avaliable to everyone and there for shouldn't be forced apon anyone
it already costs me 5$ a day in gas to get to and from work - no i don't drive an SUV.. i drive small cars with decent mpg.. if they where to also start charging me larger and larger amounts until i stopped driving towork.. the answer would be to quit my job and find one closer to me.. NOT something i want to do. NOT something i should be forced to do because others want to make more money off of the people that have no choice.
i fully agree - where i work it takes almost 6-9 months to get a new person completely trained on all of our products. why yes we could do better in training that is how long it takes before you can let them lose and not have to watch them.
If someone is looking to move to another job in less than 3 years then we don't even consider them.
personaly i thought w2k was perfect.. truely built on NT with jsut a few usability things added.. the fact that w2k had device management and better error reporting for hardware was a perfect improvement over NT4 - also the support for things like directX and OGL was nice too - made it more usable - while w2k still had a the small (if you wnated it to be) foot print and prety decent preformance.
i am also glad that they updated the documentation from nt4 to w2k under defragment.. i will never forget reading that in the nt4 manual.. the recomended procedure for disk defragmentation was to back up the drive to tape.. format the drive and restore from tape.. just sadly funny for a server OS..
personaly i like w2k and still use it on my laptop.. i don't need the bells and wisles that xp and vista have - and with the lesser over head it makes my old p3 laptop run perfect
thanks.. you and the parent answered what i was looking for.. where i work we don't need this at the moment but i can see something like this being needed in the next 3 years.. although who knows what is going to be avaliable in 3 years.. but it is good to keep a watchful lazyeye on it.
i am wondering.. that sounds like they did a good job.. but from the upstream providers view.. what does the access logs look like? if the transparent proxy is acting as a middle man for the client does it pass info upstream for logs?
it is also an exclusivity thing.. apple doesn't want everyone to get it.. they want a niche group.. they arn't going to price it so that every kid or preson can have one.. they want it to be exclusive.. they can make more money that way..
Do you now have to swipe it each time you use a credit card? Why not...not an infringement...just 'proves' you are the person on the credit card. Heck..why bother with a separate card at all? The credit card companies just start using your swipe to assoc. with an account with them. This is already happening.. on a diffrent level.. not with Drivers Licenses.. and not forced BUT here is the example
when i saw this first open and realize people are actualy doing this - it blew my mind away.
I used to bank at Wachovia - i used to go to NCSU - Wachovia and NCSU parterned together to allow you to use your Student ID as your Wachova ATM/Depit/Check card so you would only have one photo ID to care around and buy things on and off campus..
yea think about that..... i more than happly said no thanks...
luckly i had a metal plate installed in my skull as a child due to a birth defect (still sets off good metal detectors). i consider my self quite hard headed.. there for screw helmets for me..
p.s. if i crack my skull open take some pictures and show them to me later - i want to see what the plate looks like..
The database should require warrants and be overseen by a provacy advocate group as well as some seriously paranoid geeks for security. But the data should be there if required to prove innocence or guilt. you mean like wire taps right?? sure it starts out that way.. but it ends with, well you know what is going on..
give them an inch they take a mile and then drag you down it by your tounge
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saddly enough i know of one company that doesnt' allow cameras in the production facility due to posiable OSHA violations - not that the phone would violate OSHA rules - but they don't want photo evidence of OSHA violations being sent out before they company even knows they exist, very paranoid but true.. they are worried that a disgruntaled employee would set up an area to be unsafe take the picture and then turn the company in.
It is easier for the company to disalow cameras without permission than to paranoid polecing of everyone
well i and others that i work with know.. we are out side consultants.. some times we are only cleared for X area and if we have to go through a restricted area well - and it isn't "ultra super top" it is just information that they don't want shared with either the public at large or competting companies.
he doesn't have to work for the CIA.. just about every fortune 500 company doesn't allow camera's (including the ones in phones) into their R&D departments. also any company that has a unique proccess for manufacturing doesn't allow them.
when you go work for the CIA or other places with that level of information security.. you don't get to take any phone and some times you arn't even allowed to see where you are going.
it amazes me how banks are suposted to be secure.. and think they do everything perfect.. then i see the reality..
.. they had printed it out with in a week of handing it to me.. after seeing that.. there was no way we would ever hire them..
we had someone apply for a job here.. they where an ex bank data center admin.
in the profolio that they provided to show what they had worked on.. was a detailed layout of the data center and all the interconnects between servers and the branch offices.
looking through it even had detailed info on all the os and software and respective patch levels for each server in the data center.
sadly it was recent - ver recent
you are thinking from your own personal point of view.. and if that was your attitude towards change you wouldn't last long in a changing envoriment. I work with companies that have doen this every day.. some go over board some do it right - we even teach them ways of doing it and help facilitate it.
one key thing is never look at it as "if you where hit buy a bus/beer truck" - that is when people feel they are writing their own jobs so they can be replaced.
you have to take to a level where they see value - suchs as starting with complex tasks that eat away at their time and make their job's annoying. you take that task and you proccess map it and you stream line it and then you document it. once you can show that the proccess works the person will be more than happy to start doing it for other tasks. At that point you can start to put them together to map out everything and see where you need more documentation.
it doesn't always lead to layoffs - that only happens when people up high don't undertand what is happening. and normaly it is a very short sighted thing to do. i will say alot of times it results in reorginization at diffrent level's.. but that can be very good if it is going to help effecinecy.
and the comment of a single employee has nothing to gane and only something to lose - means that that employee doesn't quite undertand what work is and has no motivation to work for that company. all they are looking at is i do X and i get paid Z.. if they would realize that by documenting what they are helping facilitate improvement, which will help them do C and make V.
things change - people need to undertand change - this is why you need people who undertand people and undertand change to facilitate the change.
Where I work we teach people how to do this task correctly with out insulting the worker.
One thing you have to remember when writing job/work packets or single point lesson plans is you assume that the person doing it isn't and idiot... you document what needs to be documented - not the placement of every single screw in full detail but rather what to watch for and a reference to the machine guide which will then have all the screw placements.
On top of that you have your job scheduler be required to update the documentation by getting feed back from the people who use it.
what this allows in plant maintenance is that if you have x people of a certain trade skill some better than others - all will benefit from the added experience and knowledge added in from when the workers submit changes to the SPL's - it also allows you to get new people and hand them what they need to go do a job with minimal supervision and training (they are skilled workers after all)
Documenting your process is one of the best things you can do - you just have to do it in a way which facilitates good information but also leaves out the mundane info that makes the worker feel insulted. Cause if the trades men feel insulted by the documentation they won't use it and it won't get updated and now you have poorly documented job packs that can (if the work has changed and not been updated) cause more harm than good.
You also need to make sure that everyone has the option and ability to submit changes to the job flows but there needs to be only one person that can change that document - and they need to be qualified to it.
well i personaly would assume that as people can do jig saw puzzles - and that people manage to mend broken glass and other broken artifacts quite well that if you take someone with the right equipment (say Intel and their fab lab) they could get it back to a reasonable shape - also mix it with the constant charge in each cell - you may have to read each one manualy but it is like all things if you can do it once you can do it a million times - it just takes time.
Considering that intel recently showed off some of it's new chip fab equipment where they can take a fabed CPU - remove the heat spreader place it in a special board in a special box where they can control the clock rate al the way down to a basic pause and read each transister state in real time and even change the state and even remove and add traces in real time. that your rather simplistic flash drive compared to a new 45nm cpu would be a walk in the park.
all i was pointing out is that your hammer isn't going to remove the data - sure it might smash the chip into a million peices but the data is still there in each and every cell - all that has to happen is for it to be put back together and then read- sure it isn't going to read by ust shoving it back in your usb port - but there is many more diffrent ways to read the data..
it all comes down to what is the value of the data to the person trying to recover it. if it is worth the time effort and cost then it can be done
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/113080/what-does-it-take-to-destroy-a-hard-disk/page1.html
i would never agree that "no amount of 'forensics' can recover broken silicon chips"
sure it might be hard.. but it is still more than possiable - the trick is how much is it worth to the person/people trying to get the data back.
i was trying to find a better artical where they went over how ontrack recovered 90+% (don't remember exactly) from the drives on the 2003 shuttle that turned into a fireball and shreaded..
i seriously doubt that your hammer would do much - and as for the other person that responded to you.. flushing it woln't do much good.. as well all they need to do is find it..
again.. it is all dependent on how much it is worth to the person trying to get the data back.
saddly i live in the US.. and i did the math for the "unemployment pay" here you need to be laid off and unable to find a job.. once you get "unemployment pay" you have to show at regual intervals that you are trying to find a job and have attended interviews.. what you get paid (last time i checked) was 50% of what your last job was.... and you don't pay taxes on it......
..
so i got to thinking.. if i got a t-shirt that said "i kill babies for fun" and didn't bath (basicly making NO one want to employ me).. i could sit at home most of the time and get 50% of what i make..
take my pay now.. realize that i pay 30% to 401k/retierment stuff.. and another 30% to taxes..
i could get laied off and collect unemployment.. get more money per month (take home) than i do now.. and all i would lose is not having a nice nest egg when i am 65.. although i would still get SS.. and the way the market is going right now i may not have a nice nest egg anyways.. hell i have lost 15% of my 401k just this month
so yea.. as messed up as it is.. unemployment isn't that bad.. sicking really that that 30% taxes i am paying is paying for someone else to do what i jsut discribed
weird.. what where you using that caused w2k to be unstable past sp2? i have never had any issue with it and service packs breaking software - usaualy it increased software support..
w2k was nice - and still is.. too bad it support cycle ended this past summer - while i personaly like and enjoy server2003 (again a very nice small foot print) i am not liking what i see in 2008.. and long for the simplicity of 2k
oh i agree with that - it was just your first post was "car pool" and i was just pointing out that it really isn't an option as trust me if i could i would.. a few years ago my wife was working only 1/2 mile from my office.. and we car pooled almost every day.. i do miss it.. but it isn't always an option (like now)
I agree that this idea of increasing tolls to cut down on the number of drivers could work - but i personaly feel any money made off of it needs to go into increasing public transportation and/or increasing the infrastructure to accommodate for the people it kicked off the roads.
i think you miss understood me.. yes we do look at time frames for past jobs.. but we also ask up front how long they expect to be here - people are more than happy to tell you what they think and how things are going with them.
we don't just go off past jobs - that wouldn't be fair.. we fully understand that if you get a job and afterwards find out it is complete hell hole you are going to get out. but based on the persons personality and their history and how and with what they answer questions you can tell who is going to be here and who is going to take the next job with the smallest increase in pay.
we do alot of work with alot of companies - we tend to build relationships between our people and the companies they are working with - we can't aford to have high turnover as the people we work with don't want a new face every time we come out..
i don't feel it is short-sighted at all as we do take the time to invest in our people - if i have someone who is smart and a hard worker willing to learn.. we will train them from the ground up.. as long as they have a basic understanding and are they type of people that value learning we will train them and even put them through school for the skills they need to do the job. I know this first hand as they did it for me.
that doesn't always work.. the closest person that works in the same area as me (set of buildings) lives a 30min drive from my house.. also we are not on route of each other and work. also my wife works 45min west while i work 40min north.. (that is rush hour times)
also busses don't come within 15 miles of my house and there is no subway..
while it seems i don't live in a big city - it is a large one.. not huge like LA or NY or someof the crazier places..
but car pooling isn't avaliable to everyone and there for shouldn't be forced apon anyone
it already costs me 5$ a day in gas to get to and from work - no i don't drive an SUV.. i drive small cars with decent mpg.. if they where to also start charging me larger and larger amounts until i stopped driving towork.. the answer would be to quit my job and find one closer to me.. NOT something i want to do. NOT something i should be forced to do because others want to make more money off of the people that have no choice.
i fully agree - where i work it takes almost 6-9 months to get a new person completely trained on all of our products. why yes we could do better in training that is how long it takes before you can let them lose and not have to watch them.
If someone is looking to move to another job in less than 3 years then we don't even consider them.
personaly i thought w2k was perfect.. truely built on NT with jsut a few usability things added.. the fact that w2k had device management and better error reporting for hardware was a perfect improvement over NT4 - also the support for things like directX and OGL was nice too - made it more usable - while w2k still had a the small (if you wnated it to be) foot print and prety decent preformance.
i am also glad that they updated the documentation from nt4 to w2k under defragment.. i will never forget reading that in the nt4 manual.. the recomended procedure for disk defragmentation was to back up the drive to tape.. format the drive and restore from tape.. just sadly funny for a server OS..
personaly i like w2k and still use it on my laptop.. i don't need the bells and wisles that xp and vista have - and with the lesser over head it makes my old p3 laptop run perfect
thanks.. you and the parent answered what i was looking for.. where i work we don't need this at the moment but i can see something like this being needed in the next 3 years.. although who knows what is going to be avaliable in 3 years.. but it is good to keep a watchful lazyeye on it.
i am wondering.. that sounds like they did a good job.. but from the upstream providers view.. what does the access logs look like? if the transparent proxy is acting as a middle man for the client does it pass info upstream for logs?
all i can say is that whom ever started that hummor over there died or dies of AIDS - very slow very painfuly
i don't think there is a better way of putting it..
+1 perfect
it is also an exclusivity thing.. apple doesn't want everyone to get it.. they want a niche group.. they arn't going to price it so that every kid or preson can have one.. they want it to be exclusive.. they can make more money that way..
mods please fix parent.. this is not flamebait.. it is relevent to the direction of the previous comments.
if i isn't Intresting or informative use the hardly ever seen "under rated"
when i saw this first open and realize people are actualy doing this - it blew my mind away.
I used to bank at Wachovia - i used to go to NCSU - Wachovia and NCSU parterned together to allow you to use your Student ID as your Wachova ATM/Depit/Check card so you would only have one photo ID to care around and buy things on and off campus..
yea think about that
luckly i had a metal plate installed in my skull as a child due to a birth defect (still sets off good metal detectors). i consider my self quite hard headed.. there for screw helmets for me..
p.s. if i crack my skull open take some pictures and show them to me later - i want to see what the plate looks like..
give them an inch they take a mile and then drag you down it by your tounge