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National ID Cards Mandated in the US, If You're Under 50
charleste writes "CNN is reporting that the US Homeland Security Department has mandated Real ID for drivers licenses. According to the article, this will not include a 'chip', but a list of options by state. Despite legislation passed in various states and objections by groups such as ACLU, this appears to be a done deal. Without one of the new IDs you will be unable to board a plane after 2014 if you are under 50."
1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.
THE BLACK HELICOPTERS ARE GOING TO GET US!
Seriously people, I'm all for civil liberties, but theres nothing wrong with have a solid method of making sure people are who they say they are and verifying they are allowed to get the identification they are allowed to get.
"Give someone a program, frustrate them for a day... Teach someone to program, frustrate them for a lifetime."
After this christmas, I'm not boarding a plane ever again. The airlines can all die in some sort of fiery explosion for all I care.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Under 50 is not a permanent exemption. After 2017, those over 50 will have to have a Real ID license as well. The additional 3 years for them was added so the states would have more time to issue everyone new licenses.
Regardless, if we don't want this then the states need to be firm in their opposition to it.
If every state (or nearly every one) opposes it, the DHS can't really do anything, unless they want to be the agent of the economy's collapse because no businesspeople can travel. If enough states do not oppose it strongly, then the ones who do will be forced to capitulate eventually, similar to the 21 drinking age.
It won't make a blind bit of difference, but it might make you feel a little better about your friday.
Even more reason to get out and vote in November.
Dealing with lawyers would be a lot less tedious if they all looked like Casey Novak.
So my current license expired in 2015, but thansk to this I have to get a new one a year early....
sheeeesshhhh
What a pain.
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
REAL ID In Its Death Throes, Says ACLU 315 comments
Even so, I still think this will have to survive court challenges.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Germaine Greer:
Security is when everything is settled. When nothing can happen to you. Security is the denial of life.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
OK, so we'll all be getting fake IDs saying we're 50, like many teenagers get to go to bars. Hey, I've aged pretty well, I work out, I eat healthy, and I've had some work done by a very good plastic surgeon. I only look like I'm 30, but I'm really old enough to not require a national ID card. yea... That's the ticket!
Out of curiosity, why the over 50 exemption?
Will they find a way to get a super secret secure ID card with the rest of us due to legal loopholes?
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
Thank you George Orwe... I mean Bush and God Bless you.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
If you want to fly within the US, you don't really need any ID at all. They just stick you over to the side and give you the extra treatment. My friend lost his wallet and that's what happened. Internationally of course, you need a passport..
I'm very much against Real ID for all of the reasons discussed here on Slashdot: the possibility for ID theft, the possibility for inappropriate use of personal information, the possibility of tracking our movements, etc.
But here's what's particularly egregious about this plan: nobody over 50 will have to get a Real ID for nearly 10 years! If Real ID is so unbelievably necessary to our national security, how can we allow this segment to not have an ID? Should we stop scanning older individuals at the airport because they are "less likely to be a terrorist"?
The Bush administration has repeatedly refused to comment on waterboarding because they say they do not want the terrorists to know which interrogation techniques we use. Well, DHS is telegraphing to the world what sort of security techniques we use: Pssst! We only check people less than 50!
Stupid stupid stupid! Hypocritical, hypocritical, hypocritical!
It may be Godwin, but it's also Harper's Magazine... from 1941.
http://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/0020122
-theGreater.
Leaving out people over 50 leaves a gigantic hole in the supposed effectiveness of such an ID. It basically gives "terrorists" a road map or how to proceed. So, given that the stated goal of such IDs is to deal with terrorists, and there's a built in mechanism of the plan that severely hampers this goal, I can't help but wonder what the actual purpose of these infernal things is. And in so wondering, can't seem to come up with anything remotely good.
"The over-50 exemption was created to give states more time to get everyone new licenses, and officials say the risk of someone in that age group being a terrorist, illegal immigrant or con artist is much less."
I thought this sort of thing was illegal.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
So basically almost all politicians in the legislation will be exempt.
Nice...
1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.
Actually, the appendex in "1984" IS an instruction manual.
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
From the article:
The September 11 attacks were the main motivation for the changes.
First of all, I'd be willing to bet most people who lost someone dear to them in the tragedy of 9/11 is downright insulted by the constant abuse of the memory of their loved one as a tool to cudgel the American public into accepting laws which have no point other than to increase the power and pervasiveness of the Federal government. The 9/11 attackers all had legitimate IDs, so what possible purpose would this have served back then? We might have known the names of the guys that did it sooner after the fact? Yeah, I'm sure that would have come in real handy.
Frankly, I know there's nothing anyone can do to stop the REAL-ID ball from rolling, so I'd just be happier if they came out and admitted they just want the power trip.
Dealing with lawyers would be a lot less tedious if they all looked like Casey Novak.
Finally!! A way to make me look young again!!! In 2014 I'll only be 40 so I can laugh at all the people still using regular driver's licenses and saying "Wow...you're old!!" :)
As opposed to Fake ID? Its about time the government required Real ID's for flying, they seem to get pissed off when you use a Fake ID for driving. I'm glad everyone is now on the same page.
I'm pretty "whatever" on the subject of airplanes, but the US *really* needs a reliable way to prove who you are. A friend of mine has an online payday loan business, and the level of fraud is *insane*. Probably 19 out of 20 applications are fraudulent, because people know that they'll never get tracked down. Most of the fraud can be caught through SSN verification, but it's not a very reliable tool. This business is an extreme example, but credit card fraud happens every day online.
I'm not necessarily in favor of mandatory identification by government on a whim, but there needs to be a way to prove identity. Just as consumers should be able to know they're doing business with a legit business, a business should be able to know exactly who they're doing business with. In the old days when nearly all business was face-to-face and mostly local, it wasn't as much of a problem, but that world is dead.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Not everybody has a drivers license. What happens to people who have
lost theirs (for getting too many tickets), are under age, or just
never WANTED to get a driver's license (some people are scared of driving).
What kind of ID will these people get?
So how do you get on a plane or into a federal building if you don't have a REAL ID compliant license, like um
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
So this is resulting from 9/11 right? How does this stop a terrorist from boarding a plane with his own legit paperwork?
If you are a visitor from a country that does not issue passports that meet the requirements, how do you get on a flight?
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
When I got on the list for US citizenship (I'm a Brit with an American father) the US was a cool, open, free country that was somewhere that I couldn't wait to get too. In less time than it takes the INS to process a form, all of the above have been crapped on.
Mind you, I have been on the list for four years and in that time they have processed six months of applicants. Maybe by the time I get to the front of the queue the country will be cool again, who knows.
I guess it's time to break out those home-made truck bombs I've been keeping in my basement! Washington, here I come!
so now the Real Doll requires a Real ID to prove she is of age?
An executive action (a set of regulations) that doesn't have its first deadline until near the end of the next presidential term, doesn't have its main effect until a year into the following term, and doesn't have its full effect until the end of that term is hardly a fait accompli.
There is plenty of time to push for executive modification of the regulations or legislative modification (or outright repeal) of the underlying law, and elections in between to focus that pressure around.
Are there penalties for the misuse of data on my ID? I am thinking statutory damages of $250,000 for each instance data is retained without my signed, notified, and explicit permission by any non-governmental entity. I don't need more junk mail or people trying to steal my good credit rating or US-born "status".
"In the past week, the civil liberties debate has exploded in Sweden, with numerous mainstream politicians finally having understood the issue. Last week, seven Swedish MPs wrote a prominent opinion piece saying that removing national ID is not just the best solution, it's the only solution. Now their number has increased to 13, and the issue continues to grow. Good summaries at www.aclu.org and ID Consortium. Original opinion piece in English here." One can dream, can't he?
I wish they had just made it 70, since that's when you get your flying mount anyway. Maybe they'll fix it in the next patch.
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
Plus, I'm not really buying the ACLU's arguments about losing civil liberties. Exactly what "civil liberties" are we losing here, anyway? I seriously doubt that, even with RealID, we're going to take a step back to the days of mid twentieth century Russia where they're going to throw you in the Gulag in Siberia for not being able to produce an ID when they ask you for it. In reality, chances are that they just won't let you on the plane, let you into the IRS building, or let you vote, or something like that,...
A smattering of thoughts...
If flying becomes that much of a pain, will we begin to see a resurgence of driving or maybe even privately run railroads? Could Amtrak spin this to climb from the abyss?
If it's a "national" ID/drivers license, does that mean you could get rid of state-specific licenses and just have one that you can use everywhere? As someone who has switched states twice in the past few years, it's a royal PITA to get a new license. Also, what would this do to fake ID's used to get alcohol? What will the underage students do? Which also leads me to...
The FA mentions slashing the costs, making it easier on the states. In at least Michigan and Indiana, the DMV in both are completely overwhelmed already. If they're going to have to do *more* work, how in the heck would they ever pull this off? Michigan already has just recently had to deal with plugging a hole where illegal immigrants would get a state issued driver's license.
What are the chances that we see in the next 10-15 years people from our generation (late 20s) come into power that understand what a clusterfck things have become, and get rid of this crap? Get rid of the DHS, PATRIOT act, and start living a more "enlightened" mindset? Can we hope??
A number of states have already told the feds to "suck their balls" in regards to the "REAL ID" program. This is quite well known, so I'm not sure why /. is serving up a fud sandwich.
At age 57 I love to hear that our government makes arbitrary age limits on this.
As a youth I fully expected to be driving a Jetson model car by now.
Help end the use of Sigs. Tomorrow
"Go back to bed, America. Your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control again. Here. Here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up. Go back to bed, America. Here is American Gladiators. Here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom. Here you go, America! You are free to do what we tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!" - Bill Hicks
I know kids on an airplane can be annoying but to reform national ID law against the will of the states, and many of the people just to avoid that annoyance, seems a bit harsh.
It's true people who reference 1984 have no idea what 1984 was about.
So I'm assuming the majority of people pissing about these national id cards don't carry any form of id already?
So the national ID says you are who you are, is this opposed to your drivers license, or social insurance card? Or your birth certificate, or your credit card? You don't own a telephone or a computer? Lord knows you can't get tracked with any of THOSE.
Pull your heads out of your asses you fucking Yanks.
No, the US (United States Government) does not need a way to prove who you are. Your friend, the loan shark, gets defrauded for reasons that are his/her own policy.
Liberty is not having to prove who you are, unless faced with a probable-cause affidavit. We have an additional presumption of being not-guilty; having mandatory ID thwarts that presumption based on identity.
Your presumption that the world of liberty is dead because you feel there's a need to finger everyone is fallacious. You deserve what you get.
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" Ben Franklin. Fie on your suggestion.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
It's about fucking time! What kind of an idiot do you have to be to be worried about a national id card? You already have a social security number, the IRS has data on you, all three major credit bureaus have files on you, if you've ever gotten a license to drive the DMV has records. If you've ever traveled to a foreign country other than Canada or Mexico you've got a passport. Enough with the privacy bullshit. Every citizen should have a National ID card that can be easily verified against a database of citizens so employers can no longer pull the "I didn't know" card when they break our laws by employing illegal immigrants and effectively driving down the costs of labor so our unskilled citizens can't make a living wage working in the service sector since the good old US of A sold out and destroyed it's manufacturing industry with "free trade" agreements with countries whose labor laws make the factory conditions during the industrial revolution seem like an upgrade.
Did anybody see that flick? I remember Russo talking about this... but he was sure the chip would be in it.
Will the last person to leave please turn out the lights and lock the door.
If the tax-leeching baby boomers can figure it out, then the rest of the population will have no problems.
Blar.
Hmmn, it says here your license was issued in
Georgia. What is your business here in Moscow?
--dave
davecb@spamcop.net
Yes actually there is a problem with having that if, it is mandatory. Therein lies the problem. If the government or indeed any twit in a uniform can demand your "RealID" and keep a log of it then your activities can be logged, your participation in, say, an anti-war demonstration can be cataloged and perhaps come back to haunt you. Ditto for your other unpopular views or activities.
The theory of valid ID may perhaps be arguable but the practice of what is done with it is very very different.
Post 9-11 there was a push both for RealID and the idea that "for our protection" police should be able to demand id at all times. The place where this and other activities has been exploited the most is in watching anti-war groups. Google it and you'll find a host of nonviolent noncriminal groups that have been catalogued, followed, identified, simply because they oppose the war. I myself have watched the (not so subtle) undercover cops infiltrate gatherings I was at and have probably been videotaped a few times. Add to this the "right" for them to demand my papers at all times and all of a sudden we have national tracking that does nothing to actually protect us.
This may sound like ranting to you but I assure you that it is not. The simple fact of the matter is that if the information is being gathered then it can be used against us by anyone in power or anyone with access. Leaving aside the fact that the biometric requirements of "RealID" are an invitation to identity theft (all info in one handy place).
Let us not also forget that on 9-11 the hijackers had valid ID. Not forged, not illicit, they had the real thing and they would have easily qualified for RealID. When boarding the planes they took their ID, the made no attempt to hide themselves under false names. They were not on the "no fly" lists. They simply walked through security with real drivers licenses and killed thousands. No "beefed up" card will change that.
Airport Security : Id Sir?
Me: Here you go
Airport Security : This is not a real ID, sir
Me: But I'm over 50.
Airport Security : No, you're not. You look like you are 15, not 50.
Me: But, my Id says I'm 50.
Airport Security : But its not a Real ID, could be a fake we only trust Real IDs.
Me: So I need to get a Real Id saying I'm 50 in order to prove to you that i don't need a Real Id?
Airport Security : Please Sir, step into this room and remove all clothing.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
when the only people I ever see screening passengers are Laquisha, Shamika, LaQuinta, and Grandpa Shaky-Hands?
but of course, why not just have EVERYONE be required to have passports and accept that as ID like the rest of the world? It's not like the rest of the world does that or something.
Where are the televangelists? This is so obviously preparation for forcing all citizens to accept the "Mark of the Beast"
Revelations 13-
16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.
There are consequences for complying with this beyond the wrath of the ACLU-
Revelations 14-
9A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
I honestly don't understand what the problem is. There seems to be a hysterical "Show me your papers! OMG 1984!" knee jerk reaction whenever federal laws about driver's licenses are discussed. Why? Licenses exist in all states already. The set of things that licenses are required for is not changing. The states are just agreeing to make their licenses more similar. What's wrong with that?
Fire it up, pussies. Get your snivel on!
13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."
Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
I like the associated linked story: "REAL ID In Its Death Throes, Says ACLU"
I know people are going to flame about this, but seriously, on my list of urgent daily concerns...this ranks somewhere below seeing the replies to my slashdot posts.
National ID mandated? (shrug)
My civil rights are being infringed, somehow? (shrug)
I'll get upset when it gets in my way. Getting all frothy and bothered about something before it happens is the luxury of those with too much time on their hands.
-Styopa
Riiiight. I'm sure the airlines will have no problem with denying people wholesale from their services. They won't have any opinions about this at all. Nope. Not one. And they couldn't possibly have money for lobbyists. Not a penny. And of course Bush and the current administration is now "president for life" so nothing at all will change by then. Nope. Stay the course is a constant in politics.
Are you people seriously fucking STUPID? Non news flame-bait fucking bullshit. Get REAL.
You terrorists are so screwed!
It's just that state issued driver's license meet a set of national standards (take picture at start of process instead of end, make tamperproof via a variety of possible mechanisms, check for valid SSN and immigration status) - and many of these things are already being done by the states.
For example, it is expected that the only difference for California is that the picture for the ID is taken at the beginning of the process instead of the end.
Oh, nazi and 1984 because Californians will have less time to comb their hair before getting a driver license picture!
by 2017, everyone including geezers, will be required to have the new uber-ID (which, actually, looks pretty tame from the sketchy details in TFA).
Now get off my lawn.
RETURN without GOSUB in line 1050
Do I get a REAL way to appeal if I am denied a license? Every system has errors, and so far the US fed hasn't exactly wow'd me with how they run the do not fly list. Not having a quick way to correct a false denial can effectively grind someones life to a halt if they have need to commute/fly regularly.
For once I am happy that I was born in 1962.
-- my sig got
Most states offer non-driver's IDs that are just like licenses, but you can't use them to drive with. I'm sure passports would be REAL ID compliant.
The more important question:
You've just be summoned by a judge to appear in federal court X soon. You don't have a REAL ID, or have just lost yours, and it takes awhile to get a new one. What do you do?
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
First you get an ID.
Then you need that ID to fly.
Then you need that ID to leave the country.
Then you need that ID to get into the country.
Then you need that ID to vote.
Then you need that ID to cross state borders.
Then you need that ID to buy gas.
Then you need that ID to be a legal citizen.
Slowly but surely, it will become a 'Show me your papers' issue. Imagine just walking down the street, a cop sees you, maybe he's having a bad day, maybe you roughly match the description of a wanted criminal, he approaches you and asks for you national ID. You don't have it though, because you were just going for a walk. Next thing you know, you're heading down town, handcuffed in the back of a crown vic. Sure, they'll let you out, once you can get a friend to bring your ID in, or go through the red tape to get the State to produce the paper work, but by that point you've been printed, your arrest has been recorded, and you're out a few hours to a few days getting everything straightened out.
Fear mongers will use it as a tool against illegal immigrants first. By requiring the national ID to be able to do the most mundane of things, they'll push aliens further out of the legal realm. Then all it would take is another attack to spur off a series of knee jerk reactions that lead to certain racial/ethnic groups having their cards pulled, leaving them as 2nd class citizens, virtually outlaws because they have no ID to prove their legitimacy in the US.
Yes, it's a paranoid delusion. But so was the idea that the US would use black site prisons, suspend habeas corpus, and invade a sovereign nation on manufactured intelligence. Given enough time, the system will be abused, and civil liberties will be eroded.
And the whole time, this card will do nothing to make our country more secure.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Now I am Just a Number
Who are under 50, but not yet old enough to get a driver's license. How will they fly?
to be exempt in that first round, all I can say is
Get offa my lawn, you terrorist kids!
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Without one of the new IDs you will be unable to board a plane after 2014 if you are under 50.
Gimme my boarding pass and stay off my lawn! Punks.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
I listened to McCain on MTP, and one of the things that he is pushing is for biometrics, etc for aliens. But the ONLY way that it will work is if ALL of us are required to have an id with fingerprints, eye scan, and quite probably blood typing. IOW, ppl like McCain will be pushing for this and more. It will take somebody like Paul to win to pull out of this insanity. They only way that I want to see this go through is if the ID is at least designed correctly; with the star of david on it. Then at least the feds are acknowledging what it is all about.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Nowhere does this plan call for citizens to carry ID, nor does it affect anything other than driver's licenses.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
It's the MARK OF THE BEAST!!!
... Shoes?
Just like the Euro was...
And credit cards...
And WIndows...
And RFID...
Aaaand
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
What happens if you don't drive? Currently, you don't need a driver's license to fly on a plane, at least here in Canada.
I'm buying a bike.
War is Peace,
Freedom is Slavery,
Ignorance is Strength
Well thanks to Mr. Bush the US has managed to achieve 2 out of 3 so I guess now he's working on the 'freedom' angle...
"By 2014, anyone seeking to board an airplane or enter a federal building would have to present a REAL ID-compliant driver's license..."
So, people who live in cities with good public transportation and decide to not bother getting a driver's license (and I know many such people) will be SOL when they try to fly, despite being totally legal and legitimate citizens with entirely valid ID? Nice. Kudos on that.
Any time you need the permission of the state to travel freely that's a problem, especially when that means complete access to travel information for all US citizens that travel by air. I don't think govt agencies need that information and I certainly don't want it at their discretion to access without a warrant. The real purpose behind real ID isn't just to create a data trail, but also to take another step further in disenfranchizing the poor or anyone ineligible, incapable, or unwilling to get a driver's license. It's also inevitably going to become this or another republican administration/congress's wet dream to make it a nationwide requirement at the voting booth in order to deter those same people, who typically vote for Democratic or populist candidates, from casting their votes.
By exempting the over 50 crowd, they cut out the pushback from many of the boomers, who understand the value of privacy. The yungins don't seem to care as much, so pushing it through will be more of a cake-walk.
Clarkson?? ;)
They *could* require us to get a bar code tattooed on our ass and then drop our drawers to be scanned whenever some authoritative somebody wanted to verify our identify.
f*ck you?
Jesus saves souls and redeems them for valuable cash prizes
"homosexuals should be allowed to marry"
conservative fud: "ZOMG! people will marry children and pets!"
no, not really
"realid will become a uniform national id"
libertarian fud: "ZOMG! it's 1984"
no, not really
if you understand why allowing homosexuals to marry is limited in scope, you understand why realid is limited in scope
if, instead, you think it's the beginning of a vast slippery slope into fascism/ the death of the american family, or whatever your retarded fantasies are, you are reacting on fear and hysteria, and nothing else. no reason or rationality about you whatsoever
and frankly, you lose it. where it=a grasp on reality. seriously. realid IS NOT A BIG DEAL. it simply isn't
now don't let me get in the way of you getting your panties in a twist over the coming authoritarian overlords. you go on with your bad selves. i'm obviously an advance guard of the illuminati come to cast aspersions on you
"those who give up a little liberty to gain a little..." PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH THAT OVERUSED QUOTE. IT'S NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR THOUGHT
FRANKLIN HIMSELF WOULD LAUGH AT YOU
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Because we all know that having a license to drive automatically gives you the ability to sit in a plane seat without a bomb or plan to hijack the plane. It is very similar to the realization the government made that knowing how to drive automatically came with the knowledge of how to mix drinks. If you couldn't get a driver's license you clearly shouldn't be drinking. Then someone decided that while you may be able to handle an M-16 in the airport for security reasons and you have a driver's license, you can't drink because they changed that age to 21 and you're 19. But you can surely keep the airport safe with your fully loaded M-16. You have no trouble picking out terrorist because your training has demonstrated that terrorist don't have driver's licenses... although they might be able to drink.
Wait, where was I?
Oh right, so this 'National ID' will allow federal government the same control over flying that it has over drinking alcohol. Gosh, I never see under aged drinking.
So, do these rules only kick in for ID cards issued by the DMV? Drivers licences and non-driver IDs?
Cool. I've managed to go this long without either, I'll just keep doing what I've been doing and I can ignore this.
So you don't need a Real ID if you're over 50 in 2014 ... but how do you prove that you're over fifty. If a non-Real ID will suffice, then a terrorist could get a fake one with his DOB listed as 1963 and he could get on the plane.
Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
It's good to know they have their bases covered when it comes to honest people.
I'm sure they'll get all of the dishonest people with the subsequent Really Real ID.
Without one of the new IDs you will be unable to board a plane after 2014 if you are under 50.
Get off my side of the armrest, you punks!
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
Farnsworth: "53 years old?! Aww, now I'll need a fake ID to rent ultra-porn."
There are two types of people in the world: those who divide people into two types and those who don't.
The US already has a semi-voluntary national ID called a passport. Most US slashdotters, I would assume, are or will be international travelers, in which case, they will have a national ID sooner or later.
I think the issues are the activities for which this ID will be required, the databases that will record these activities, who has access to this information, and what can be done on the basis of that information. If we had any semblance of a right to privacy, there would be less reason to worry, but our government is steadily eroding our rights at the same time it increases the amount of information and surveillance on us. The lack of any balance is where I'm worried. If it's limited to financial fraud, border control, employment verification, and the like, that would be ok, but this info will become another all-purpose tool for any kind of prosecution/persecution.
With that attitude, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think it can be stopped, it is just going to be very difficult (like many things in life). But please don't say it is impossible. At least go to the Real Nightmare action center and email your state legislators and ask them to refuse to implement REALID. The outcome is uncertain; all we know is that fatalism = guaranteed defeat.
$META_SIG_JOKE
It's goats, you insensitive clod!!
I am moving out of the US to somewhere isolated where I can live in the mountains peacefully without being bothered.
Most of what you said is already the case and has been for some time, more or less.
Few people complain about having a birth certificate, social security card and driver's license.
Those are also the component parts to obtain a passport.
That concert of IDs is already tied together and the latter is considered good for all of the above.
I often suspect people who complain about national ID cards are part of the embarrassingly large percentage of Americans who have never been anywhere else and whose future international travel plans were severely curtailed by the recent passport requirement for travel to Canada and Mexico.
These people need to get a grip.
- The federal government is going to issue a federal ID card
- It is going to be absolutely mandatory for everyone to get one
- Because everyone is supposed to have one at all times, we will face strict penalties for not having in on you
That's not so bad IMHO, because in comparison, isn't it practically mandatory for everyone to have a driver's license these days? Yeah, sure, there are people that don't drive, but the 95% of us who do, pretty much have to carry it on us at all times. How is this any different and/or an invasion of civil liberties? I can understand "ZOMG they can plant a chip in it and find me at my favorite whorehouse/stripclub/_insert_shady_place_" but you can pretty much say that about anything.....So why is this such a big deal to everyone?
The world is going to end in 2012, isn't it?
"We shall grapple with the ineffable, and see if we may not eff it after all." - Douglas Adams
How are you supposed to prove you are over 50 without a secure and authentic ID card? I mean, *anybody* can say they're over 50.
CNN is also the network that declared Al Gore the winner of 2000 Presidential election.
"Put your message in a modem, and throw it into the cyber-sea." - Rush
I for one welcome our new Boomer overlords and ... oh, wait, I was born in 1960 and am one of the new Real ID ignoring overlords.
Bow down before your masters, peons!
Let me see your papers, serfs!
(ok, now who's going to do the Soviet Amerika obligatory reference?)
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Does this remind anyone else of the "Mark of the Beast" foretold in Revelation?
Wikipedia quotes Revelation:
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name."
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
The over-50 exemption was created to give states more time to get everyone new licenses, and officials say the risk of someone in that age group being a terrorist, illegal immigrant or con artist is much less. By 2017, even those over 50 must have a REAL ID-compliant card to board a plane.
In other news, there's a rush to recruit terrorist older than 49..
A national ID card is quite a normal thing in Europe.
:p). And it includes a microchip (which can do electronic signatures and a lot of other stuff).
In Belgium for instance, every adult of 12+ yo. is obliged to carry his/her ID-card at all times. It has several anti-counterfeiting features (similar to those used in money... well, in real money like euros, not dollar bills
TSA can't even differentiate between a 5 year old, and a terrorist, and you want to trust these asshats with your private info?
http://www.elliott.org/blog/tsa-nabs-another-five-year-old-security-threat/
Don't Vote for Norm Dicks! http://www.nodicks2008.com Another nutless dirtbag that voted for the FISA bill!
$META_SIG_JOKE
It's about time for good old fashioned mass transit train system in the US. I've flown...once about 3 years ago. Never had a problem, but I won't subject myself to that airport shit willingly any more.
I went to New Orleans last month and took the train. Buy your ticket. Get on. No bullshit searches. No shampoo bottle fluid issues. No terrorist list and no nail file issues. Nothing. All Aboard and away you go, sans the bullshit hassle of the airports and DHS.
I'm old, so I'm the Realest Real. I can't wait to get a white belt matching shoes.
OMG!!!!! We have to get this reversed! I can't beleive that they acutally got this shitty legislation to go through.
Who actually check for all the security features that is included with the new "ID"? Every time I have to show my driver license or any form of IDs, I have never seen anybody that actually go through to make sure that my ID is fake. They just want the information from the ID.
The idea of having an ID that is hard to create a fake is nice idea, but without anybody willing to go through and check for the validity of the ID totally kill it.
Go re-read the appendix to "1984".
Yes, it's written in a past-tense explanatory manner.
However, it is so thorough and detailed and systematic as to be, for most practical purposes, an instruction manual.
The difference between "how did you do X" vs. "how should you do X" is often negligible.
(And as for "-1 Wrong": sometimes the facts presented in a post are, objectively, wrong. A moderator should be able to facilitate downplaying factually erronious material, rather than having to shout among the masses. The whole POINT of a -1 moderation, whatever the reason, is to prevent crap from floating to the top.)
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
OK, so TPTB think we must have Real ID in place for national security.
By the same logic, should be be expecting a barrage of attacks by senior citizen terrorists?
Who else liked internal paper control? Hitler, Stalin, Mao... (and the Neocons/Neolibs now, apparently)
Part of the problem is that NI really is a nice tool in shutting out the undesirables (you can't get a job, you can't travel, you can't use banks, can't rent or even pay a lot of your bills unless the Govt says you can).
So yes, unfortunately National ID really does work against criminals. The question we should be asking is who decides who is a criminal (and can they be trusted).
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
Want to do something about this?
Go to the ACLU's website about REALID, go to the action center, and write your state legislators to reject implementing this act.
$META_SIG_JOKE
Have you considered the possibility that that they're not doing this to stop terrorism?
...
... during these 7 years of Bush administration than in the last 40.
The US government has done more to unconstitutionally
A) restrict civil liberties
B) deny basic freedoms and rights
C) increase its own power
It's not about terrorism. It's about control.
Judging by how slow they come out with passports, they probably picked 50 as the cut off age because most of those people would be dead by the time they actually got these id cards out.
Tomorrow, buying food.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I presume you really believe there's no problem with this, and that Big Daddy will take care of you.
So, please post your Drivers License number and State. I don't need the name.
Or, to put it in terms you can understand, either you're an idiot for spouting off about things you don't understand, or you're an idiot for trying to prove your point. Either way, the outcome is the same. But I'd prefer to have your DL number.
Because there's not fucking way I'm carrying a Real I.D. Since the founding, it used to be that we had protections in this country against being forced to carry any form of ID to travel within the country. Who is the government to tell me I whether I can travel or not. It should be purely the decision of the airline that I am using (barring people found with contraband, etc).
Oh No It Isn't.
This is the reality of life today in a police state.
Like France, for example, where I and my family wasted half a day of our holiday in a police station because I didn't take my passport with me when we went to the beach. (We never did make it to the beach, it was too far to drive there and back in just the afternoon.)
The other symptom of a police state, BTW, besides "show me your papers" is easily recognisable - the police carry guns.
NEED multi-state or multiple ID's?
I posted this to the so-called firehose yesterday, via my Journal, using the Yahoo! link (boy, it's sometimes DISCOURAGING to bother posting to the firehose when one is not worth paying attention to...):
"US to unveil key license rules Friday"
Just after we discussed "ID Tech May Mean an End to Anonymous Drinking"
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/10/2113240
We get:
"US to unveil key license rules Friday"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080110/ap_on_go_ot/secure_driver_s_licenses
"Americans born after Dec. 1, 1964, will have to get more secure driver's licenses in the next six years under ambitious post-9/11 security rules to be unveiled Friday by federal officials."
"The hijacker-pilot who flew into the Pentagon, Hani Hanjour, had a total of four driver's licenses and ID cards from three states. The DHS, which was created in response to the attacks, has created a slogan for REAL ID: "One driver, one license.""
What I think is crap about the "One driver, one license" (and I hope states fight HARD against it on THIS part to obtain accommodation/flexibility) is that some people who are a resident in one state start and maintain a business. That state may have a myriad of laws some of which requiring proof of identity. Also, some one who opens banking and other sensitive accounts in one name (say, someone legally modifies or marries and needs/desires a change of name) may need an audit trail of proof of identity.
Now, said person moves to another state, becomes a resident, and in theory, that state's DMV would seize the old ID and now their ID audit/paper trail is messed up.
The Feds OUGHT to do is (I suppose they already did) get a dump of all ID's and cross-reference them with the legitimately-obtained REALID issues but NOT take the old IDs away. This way, states which can validate/verify their prior issues can allow multi-state residents to satisfy banking/property/other legal issues.
Typically, California would punch a hole through the DOB on the ID obtained in another state when issuing a CA ID to someone who requested to retain their "foreign" ID. I gave legit reasoning and I was allowed to NOT have my DOB punched; I just marked it up NOT VALID IN CALIFORNIA so that if I ever went back to Oregon, I would be able to present both IDs and say, "Here, see, I am the same FACE, same DOB, same F/L NAME, Blood Type, etc."
I HOPE for the sake of those who have legit reasons similar to or better than mine can avoid ID audit trail issues. Some may say/ask "If all that's changed is address and state, then what's the big deal?", but some outside entities may decide THEY want to see ID they feel matches their own files.
As long as there's no fraud involved (and the involved entities determine that), then multiple, instead ONE ID or REAL ID should not be a problem. Still, each state will have its own requirements for demonstrating safer operation of a vehicle. Here is where driving demonstration needs to be separate from ID/Address/domicile/abode and right to vote.
I'll pause here...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
* The federal government is going to issue a federal ID card
The feds will issue some federal ID cards.
* It is going to be absolutely mandatory for everyone to get one
It is not mandatory for anyone who is 50 or older in 2012 to get one. Which means I and the majority of the Boomer population won't have one. Because we hate the man, man.
* Because everyone is supposed to have one at all times, we will face strict penalties for not having in on you
Except for those of us who are Boomers, who will treat the rest of you as serfs. We are a special class of citizens who impose a rule on the rest of you, as our two-tier society continues down the path towards the Master-Serf relationship.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Yay, July 1964. I made the deadline!
Oh damn. I live in New Jersey and my license recently expired. I got one of these pieses of shit already.
Hopefully the ACLU can attack this on the basis that it profiles and discriminates against people under 50. Wild guess that those people making these laws are over 50 and don't want to be bothered with the inconvenience among other more serious implications.
-- Just my $0.02 worth...
After reading this, did anyone else get an urge to run to Snopes and see if CNN just got served a false story. They do have information on it, and unfortuantely, yes, it's true.
Now my question is why is our so-called watchdog press waiting until now. I consider myself a bit of a newsie--I keep up with what's going on. I know there's been a debate every few years over a national ID and each time they say the're not going to do that; now this is essentially the same thing and nothing's said until it's a done deal? Bullshit!
The only quibble that this isn't a national ID is that they're making the states do it instead of the fed. Oh, except that it's MANDATED by the feds, so yes, it's a national ID.
If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
REALID is not a national ID card. It is minimum requirements for state ID cards to be accepted at the national level and database interoperability standards.
Nothing new or exciting.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
I was born and grew up in Germany. ( my mom is American, my faterh German). ,9 ,10 year olds past Liftfasssaulen with the equivalent of wanted posters for terrorists in retorspective is kind of surreal, but didn't register too much with us.
We travelled internationally quite frequently, primarily in Europe, during the time when terrorism was a fairly constant threat ( 1970's). Going to school as 6, 7, 8
Even after mom remarried and we came to the US we travelled back to Europe occasionally. Heck, my American born little sister ( 14 years younger!) even got married in Prague a few years ago.
I detest the idea of this national ID. As others point out it does not promote safety in any sense ( nor did it back then in germany even though papers/IDs where required as well).
All it does allow is for the potentail wholesale abuse by agents of the federal government of its citizenry. The US has certainly shown this in the past, never mind the local governments abuse.
So no, your suspicion is way wrong.
"The hijacker-pilot who flew into the Pentagon, Hani Hanjour, had a total of four driver's licenses and ID cards from three states."
... I didn't know cruise missiles were given names and issued driver's licenses these days.
Cool
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm
When people stay out of the US because of their increasingly-draconian laws, it will be "evidence" that people are staying out of the country because of fear of terrorism, and hence the government must increase the security by tightening the collar one more notch for the good of the economy.
- RG>
Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
Good to know we uppity Boomers don't have to worry about this.
Even if it's illegal to do this according to my State Constitution - and our State Attorney General has already told the feds we and a number of other states will not be implementing RealID and they can jump off a short pier.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I think this may say it better, and I jut bought a house so I really don't want to move yet.
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin
Financial security is a form of security.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
"this appears to be a done deal"
This is an election year. No, its not a done deal.
I voted for the other guys, who lost.
I asked my congressional rep for an appt. Declined.
I wrote my congressperson about it. I got back a form letter thanking me and telling me all is well.
I wrote letters to the editor of my local paper, and other readers called me a criminal/traitor.
I supported the ACLU, who is fighting this tooth and nail. So far, to no avail.
I voted for the other guys again, and lost again.
So what would you have me do next? Quit my job and stage protests full time? Shoot somebody?
"Your paperss pleasss!!"
"Um, but I only have a pipe, man."
"Zen you vill haff to come vith ME."
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
Welcome to the police state known as the USA. Your civil liberties have once again been stolen and whats worse is they've been doing this for ages. Most Americans are so brain washed that they have not even noticed.
Now under the pretext of a government organized 9/11 Americans are willing to throw away all forms of free thought for the exchange of this false sense of security. Whats worse is that it is no longer just in the US. The so called Elite have a global plan to keep man from developing.
Doesn't anyone do any critical analysis anymore? Doesn't anyone stand back for a second and analyze facts anymore? Please wake up America because you still influence a large part of the world.
We have restricted credit, we have restricted opportunity, we have controlled development, and we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world -- no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.
-- Woodrow Wilson
I am what I am
Fortunately the calendar stops at 2012.
Game... blouses.
The problem that RealID solves is how can we milk $3.9 billion from the government... Expect some of these requirements to include patented technology that needs to be leased.
What I've figured out through reading more comments is that this is the fear scenario that the Slashdot crowd can envision all too well because we are the people with careers that involve the technology required to make this all work:
INSERT into citizen_activities (id, place, time) VALUES ("L520-AC38-F09C", "Transit Station 64C", NOW());
It amazes me how many of us Americans talk like we are the greatest country on earth, yet act like cry babies who got beat up too much in high school and now jump at every sound we hear.
National ID cards? What in God's name has happened to this country? Someone yells terrorist and we all line up and bend over, because we are so afraid of the boogie man that we are willingly to do anything, even sell out this country's core beleifs. I long for the day when both the war in Iraq and the war of terror (yes they are two separate things) are over, but it saddens me because these soldiers will come home to a country they do not recognize. We will look more like East Berlin in the early 70's than the United States of America, Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.
To educate those cowards who say things like "whats the big deal", "it will make us safer", "we need to make sure you are who you say you are", "if you haven't done anything wrong, then whats the problem", and other ignorant stuff like that.
The reason is abuse, abuse of power, abuse of trust. The brits abused power and trust during the colonial days and a revolt was the effect of that abuse. It is our job as Americans to stop our government from abusing its power and treating us like servants and peasants. THEY SERVE US, not vice versa. The president and any other elected official are glorified civil servants and at some point we forgot that and made them kings, queens, lords, and earls. Maybe we miss the good ole days before we could come and go as we pleased, before we could speak out against the government without fear of reprisals, before we could vote on things that affected us and not simply have it thrust upon us, before we could travel where we wanted in our own country without having to show 4 forms of id, the American flag you carry in your pocket, and yell out "hail bush", before when we were butt kissers instead of butt kickers.
Our government is abusing its power and will continue to do so as long as sniffling cowards sit around and say things like "they are doing it to help us". Our government is run by HUMANS, not gods. They have a lust for power, money, and control as it is the nature of the human animal when left unchecked and right now they are unchecked.
National Id cards? Can't wait for the required microchip implants to track anyone that has been arrested. How about a palm scan at the airport before you board? But, that would require we all give up our palm prints to build the database, but I am sure we have enough cowards who would sell their mother rather than be afraid, so getting something as unimportant as your fingerprints should not be a big deal.
At some point someone with some common sense will start suggesting security policies. Policies that are thought out and don't rip at the core of this country. I find it funny that the same people pushing for national id cards are against closing the loop hole for buying hand guns at gun shows. I guess a politicians position depends on who is paying for dinner, just like a whore.
it's not doomsday. This is the same shit everyone said when they changed most state drivers licenses from a laminated card to a plastic card with a magnetic strip. relax.
You asked for a government that could give you everything you want...
... you got a government that could take everything you have.
People are getting WAY too knee-jerk emotional about this rather than taking the time to read and understand what the regulations say. Statements "Without one of the new IDs you will be unable to board a plane after 2014 if you are under 50" aren't factually accurate: you can continue to use a passport or other federal ID as well.
People hear the term "National ID" (which Real ID is not) and instantly think Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia and throw up their hands in disgust rather than trying to actually understand what Real ID actually is(which admittedly does take more effort).
Myth: This will be a National ID that all citizens will be required to obtain.
Fact: Each state will continue to issue IDs. There will be little if any change in the actual card itself in most states. No one will be required to obtain a Real ID.
Myth: The card will contain a "chip" that will allow the govt. to track individuals.
Fact: The Act calls for a "machine readable" technology. DHS has explicitly ruled out RFID tags and other chips in favor of 2D barcodes.
Myth: The MRZ on the card will not be encrypted and susceptible to skimming.
Fact: 46 states currently use the 2D barcodes. None are encrypted. The information on the MRZ is exactly the same information found unencrypted on the front of the card (It's even readable by people!).
Myth: All DL information will be housed in one giant database which will make it easier for identity thieves to steal your identity
Fact: Each state will continue to operate independent databases. States will be required to check with other states to ensure that a person only has one valid ID at a time.
Terrorism is only solved when you solve the underlying problem, e.g., typically a bad relationship between two cultures or groups. If we actually worked productively on our relationship with the middle east instead of being hypocrites and supporting terrorism ourselves we are practically begging to be struck again.
To throw out a few hypothetical questions... but what if you're right? What if the ETA is wrong in it's fighting? What if the (P)IRA is wrong in it's fighting? What if Al Qaeda is wrong? Why would you appease someone who is wrong? To quote Winston Churchill "There is no greater mistake than to suppose that platitudes, smooth words, and timid policies offer a path to safety."
To be honest, I only consider Al-Qaeda a terrorist group from that list. A terrorist group strikes fear into all people, not just governments. And does this by targeting civilians, Al-Qaeda is the only one that fits this from my list. Terrorism in this form is ALWAYS wrong. You cannot appease it, you cannot ration with it, it IS a wrong ideology. And it IS WRONG to submit yourself to a wrong ideology, which you inherently do when you by appeasement, you put yourself on their level. This kind of war can only be one by one of two things, you must either convince them they are wrong, or you must get rid of them. The first is hard, and sometimes impossible, the second is sometimes as hard as the first. Although I agree that National ID cards are not the way to go, I think your philosophy to deal with the situation to be flawed at best.
If i had one dollar for every brain you dont have, i would have $1.
Domestically, Terry Nichols (purported to be a conspirator in the Oklahoma City bombing) was born in 1955.
Internationally, everyone's favorite scapegoat/scary name/terrorist is Osama bin Laden, born in 1957.
So, how is it, exactly, that they can claim that the over-50 age group is incapable of terrorist activity? Gotta love governmental smartnessitudism. Limit fluids, because they can blow stuff up. Limit batteries, because they can blow stuff up. Limit shoes, because they can blow stuff up. Require Real IDs for people under 50, because they can blow stuff up. Geriatrics? Oh, don't worry, they are not a threat (admittedly, not a threat for only the years between 2014 and 2017, when everyone will have to have one).
And this says nothing for the insanity of thinking that terrorists would be incapable of making themselves look at least somewhat like they are 50 through the use of disguises (or the fact that some people just look genuinely old).
I feel safer already!
If somebody gets caught with a fake ID, shoot them. I PROMISE you they will never do it again!
And if everybody knows that a fake ID will get them shot, i have a feeling this will make underage drinking drop FAST.
As for Habiam blowing up our buildings: We need to stop being pansies. I promise you this will stop if we stop occupying and start CONQUERING. Most powerful nation in the world? HA! What a JOKE. Can you guess why they still dare challenge us? we can't scare these people any more than Canada. And that's just SAD.
P.S. - I love Canada, great people, but u guys are so damn peaceful!
Plenty of people who use their passport as primary id for employment, entering bars, cashing checks, identifying to police officers etc. etc. Presenting that document is already equivalent to presenting all of the above. Your drivers license is already searchable nationwide and is also tied to your SSN and birth certificate. "RealID" does not present any particularly spectacular changes to the nature of the documents themselves, other than standardizing the format of the physical representation. The data behind those cards, however, is already at the point you are fearing.
I'm not naive of the implications of all of these things, I'm just saying the sky fell a very long time ago.
East Berlin in the 60's and 70's comes to mind
-- I am the NRA, enough said...
Assuming I have to get ANOTHER id in 2015 after mine expires in 2014.
Plus, what about citizens who don't (or can't) drive? Does that mean they can't ride a plane or a train?
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Bottom line, if the airlines don't know who you are, I don't want you on a plane with me.
Well, hell, I can beat that. If you're willing to give up liberty, I don't want you in this country with me.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
What people fear will be possible with this, I was doing for a living twenty years ago.
I will not get one. I will continue leading my regular life. I will avoid airplanes if I must and get to my destination some other way.
I will never carry one of these things. Their intent is evil.
I would rather be dead than live my life as a slave, even a tiny bit.
Happiness does not come from having much, but from being attached to little.
So I guess nobody in my state will get to fly on airplanes in 6 years (unless the state changes it mind and goes with the ID). Too bad...
The Department of Homeland Security (Nazi's of America) can blow me.
There's your problem. You didn't mention anything about a campaign contribution for $2,300.
I'd recommend you write your state representative(s) if you haven't already. If they refuse to go along with the Real ID laws, you won't have to worry much about it. Of course, you won't be able to board a plane without showing a passport, though. If enough states refuse the program, DHS will have to relax the laws lest large swaths of the population not be able to enter federal buildings.
What does this mean for expats? Does that mean I will be denied a chance to board a plane in the US after 2014?
To get a new license in the state I live in, even though I've legally had one for 17 years, I must now show my birth certificate to prove I am a natural-born American citizen. It's my understanding from the license office that this is also the case on the federal/national level (and by that I assume they mean the RealID Act).
Herein lies the true rub: I'm a pre-op M2F transsexual. While I've legally had a female name for years now, my state of birth is unwilling to change the "sex" field until I've had surgery. That means my BC would show an "M" on it next to a female name. The license office insists that my BC must be used as the source of my legal name and sex, despite the fact that the existing license shows "F" and has for years.
So now I have to spend money to obtain certified copies of my legal name-change order (or retrieve my existing copies when I get my stuff out of my storage unit 1300 miles away), spend more money to get my state of birth to switch my BC to my legal female name (I had originally planned to wait until after surgery), and then spend MORE money to actually obtain the revised BC.
Then I have to turn around and take the new BC to the driver's license office and spend MORE money to replace a perfectly valid, legal license with a new one, only to have them put "M" in the sex field right below a female name. The monetary cost may not be too high, but when you're poor, every penny matters, and It's no one's fucking business but mine what my privates look like!
I realize that this only affects the 0.1% or so of the general population who are TS, but for those who don't understand the root problem: If the wrong person finds out that I'm not entirely female yet, I could be outed, assulted or murdered (Yes, I said murdered - it really does happen). All because the US government is overreacting on the issue of illegal immigration and/or terrorism.
ZOMG TEH GOVNEMRNET IS EVIL!!!!1111
Or maybe not: http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/pentagon.htm
Seriously, what is the possible justification for lying about this? If there wasn't a plane crash, why not just tell a lie about an attack that fits the pictures? If the government is so incompetent that it can't even come up with a convincing lie, how come it's so successful at stopping insiders revealing the truth?
Occam's razor suggests that the more plausible theory is that you just don't know what the aftermath of a plane crashing into the Pentagon should look like.
There are a few elections before then, so we can change this if we want.
"The terrorists have won."
...which makes for a satisfying and yet apt if not well-worn sound-byte, ...kinda.
Of course there's more to it. The above-mentioned "win" was not the only goal being sought, and you could also make a very convincing argument that it wasn't only terrorists seeking that specific outcome.
On top of that, if we're assuming that this is a zero-sum contest (are we certain that it is?), then there are certain "levels of defeat" we seem to be prepared to accept - assuming that the terrorists have won a final victory, which they haven't,...
...but you knew that.
A more complete and final victory might take the form of the "defeated" adopting the methods and more importantly, the mindset of the "victors".
So, the nose of the camel is already in the tent, so there is no point trying to stop it now? If anything we need to start the push the other direction and start trying to wake people up to the problems of 24/7 monitoring, before it becomes a reality.
Pull your heads out of your asses you fucking Yanks.
Yup, us Yanks have done a pretty good job of planting our heads up our collective asses recently. Sometime back after WWII we just sort of gave up on personal responsibility, we gave up on taking care of ourselves, we gave up on trying to keep our republic. And look where it has gotten us. We decided that we didn't want to be responsible for ourselves anymore, and we asked the government to do it for us. And, as is its nature, the government was willing to do anything to allow itself to expand.
It has been a death spiral ever since. The more bad things which happen, the more we run to the government to fix it; the government expands to try and do so, and fails because the solutions for most of our problems can only come from the people themselves taking responsibility for themselves and their communities. Undeterred by the continuous failure of government to actually solve social problems, the people keep running back to it and screaming, "fix it!" And the government continues to grow. Eventually, this will come back to haunt us. Eventually, the next step in government growth will be a police state and actual tyranny, and the US people will cheer its coming. It will be to later generations to suffer and die to throw it off again, but at least those with their heads up their asses will have a few brief days of serenity, believing that they are safe. Until the jackbooted thugs show up at their door in the night for thinking the wrong things.
We have a chance to stop this, and the time is now. It will be far easier to stop the growth of a police state, and deflate the government and put it back in its little box before it reaches the critical mass of tyranny. Right now, we still have some dregs of liberty left. We can still dissent, we can still speak our minds and we can still try and change things without the jackbooted thugs arriving in the night. How much longer that will last no one rightly knows; but, the time to fight is not when the boot is on your neck, the time to fight is when you are still on your feet and have a chance.
RealID is not, by itself, much of a threat. It is, though, a small piece in a much larger puzzle of out of control government tyranny. We don't resist it, deride it and try to stop it just because of itself. We do so because we can step back and see the much larger picture which is coming together, and it scares us. Stopping RealID won't stop that picture altogether either, but it will make it harder, it will create a disruption and that is good. Keeping our republic is not a matter of winning any one fight, it is a matter of a continuous struggle against anything which threatens any small piece of it. It is exhausting and will only end when we give up and let our republic die.
"Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?"
"A republic if you can keep it." --- Benjamin Franklin
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
Finally! A benefit to being over 50! Well, besides qualifying for AARP membership and discounts...
Should we be suspicious because the cut off date excludes all boomers?
There's more to it than this.
It's a case of a mistaken identity for a 5-year-old boy from Normandy Park. He had trouble boarding a plane because someone with the same name is wanted by the federal government.
"When his mother went to pick him up and hug him and comfort him during the proceedings, she was told not to touch him because he was a national security risk. They also had to frisk her again to make sure the little Dillinger hadn't passed anything dangerous weapons or materials to his mother when she hugged him."
Cory Doctrow adds: "if you wanted to systematically discredit the idea of a Department of Homeland Security, if you wanted to make an utter mockery of aviation safety, you could not do a better job than this."
This begins to remind one of the Good Germans.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
No worries for me or anyone else who sees the big GLARING hole in this plan. I don't fly commercial airlines nor do I ever plan to ever again, so when I want out of the country, I'll simply buy a boat and leave. No ID necessary. I won't go into exactly how easy it is to obtain citizenship in Caribbean countries but I spend more per month on fuel for my car than it costs to obtain it elsewhere.
0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
New Hampshire, the target of the Free State Project, has outright rejected and will not comply with the "Real-ID" program.
Details, including links to the specific legislation and videos of the protests, are here.
Part of the Second American Revolution!
how will they know you are over 50 without the id card?
I'll just show my ID showing that I don't need to show my realid . ..
hawk
How's that?
Coming from a country with an ID card, whenever I read something about ID theft or SSNs being stolen, I think that that wouldn't work here and thus doesn't happen.
It might also help with no-flight-list mixups like the five-year-old being searched because he has the same name as someone on the list.
But I don't like the card being mandatory by law(*), much less the biometric crap they have started adding by making (BS) claims that they are needed to fight terrorism.
With it being de-facto necessary I'm somewhat ok.
I lived 2-3 years with one that was expired and only needed it for elections (dead people can't vote here..)- and the election helpers didn't bother to check the date.
I'm also pretty sure that voting-by-mail doesn't require ID.
The ironic thing is, the only other time I *really* needed it was when I had to sign personally for a registered letter questioning me/informing me/threatening charges because I didn't have a valid ID or passport for two years.
Without a valid ID it shouldn't have been possible for me to sign for and receive that letter..
(signing was necessary since it contained an ultimatum to get either an ID or a passport or to prove their records wrong within four weeks to avoid penalties. AFTER I had a new ID I got a (very small) misdemeanor fine anyway.)
What is it about being 50+ in 2014 that makes you a security nonrisk? Well... it makes you a Baby Boomer, since you'd have to be born before 1964, and since the life expectancy is about 75, probably dead if you're from the previous generation.
This fake Terror War is really just Baby Boomers attacking the next generation even harder than they did the previous generation when they first started to grab power in the 1960s. Now that they've got all the power, they're the worst tyrants the country has ever had.
If they're so afraid, they should just stay home.
--
make install -not war
Look 9/11 was a frightening day, because 30 minutes later and 50 stories lower and 50,000 people died. For the first time since the War of 1812, the US Mainland was hit in war. We were all generally terrified of becoming like Israel in the early 1990s at the beginning of the upswing that followed Oslo.
It's not the fear of a 3000 casualty hit and loss of buildings... it's the fear of something bigger.
The fact is Al Qaeda is relatively overblown. They may be the only group with a global reach, but their global reach isn't that significant. Think about it, they got 19 guys in to hijack planes when the assumption was don't fight hijackers, they generally let everything go peacefully. They hit two buildings, but before they were supposed to (they obviously wanted to simultaneously hit them after 9 AM to maximize damage), 30 minutes apart, and too high to maximize damage.
The fact is, for all the bluster of Islamic Terrorists, they haven't done anything impressive. The most impressive operation was Hezbollah's holding off of Israel, and even that was a joke. They claimed a military victory, but only in the Arab world can your land be occupied by a foreign power, you hold none of their territory, and your roads and bridges are destroyed yet you are victorious because it took more than a week to wipe you out. That, like 9/11, is overplayed. Israel retooled their military once they had a reminder that "surrounded by enemies" isn't just PR, it's real and requires your military be prepared for an actual war, not just policing malcontents in disputed land, and by the time people heard on the 4th plane that they weren't negotiating, they were blowing things up, the people on the plane took it over and ended the issue.
That said, we should keep an eye on things, because these people do just want to inflict lots of damage... fortunately they aren't that bright. If you haven't noticed, every middle eastern "nuclear weapons program," despite years of effort, somehow is always X years/months away, where X is always longer than the Manhattan project. I have no doubt that the Arab world has it's share of brilliant minds (they were the scientific leaders for centuries), but in the Arab world, decades of oppressive dictatorships have managed to kill or exile every independent thinker, and now they seem incapable of anything impressive, and their government projects are run by total morons.
If Al Qaeda had their act together, 9/11 would have been a start to a wave. Hitting soft targets every week would have caused massive financial collapse in America... if everyone was scared to go to shopping malls because bombs were going off weekly, consumer spending would have contracted and US economic might would have fell apart. Fortunately, the Islamic terrorists aren't that bright, and are more interested in big flashy things to make recruiting videos, not about actually waging war with the US. These movements need a steady supply of naive, bored young teenagers and 20 somethings, so their goal is projects that would be exciting to an upper middle class Arab youth that is bored with life.
Instead of living on daddies money and getting stoned in college while talking up socialism over the pizza put on the Gold Card, like their American counterparts, they can convinced to blow themselves up to fight the US/Israel/Zionism and martyr themselves. The terrorists #1 goal is recruiting more foot soldiers, actually hurting us is a distant second.
I wonder if people freaked out this much when they started using passports or DL's.
Osama Binladen will be over 50 in 2014.
Feel safer now?
--
make install -not war
...it's perfectly reasonable to set a standard for how id is verified and secured. The only part that is unreasonable is anything that causes the info to get moved up to the federal level. Though even that's really a lost cause: ssn already provides that, and with the requirement to have passports even to go to canada and mexico, the vast majority of us already have our "papers".
I wonder if it would be possible to do a physical equivalent to openid?
At what point did this country, partly inspired by the Magna Carta, become more afraid of its government than the government is afraid of the people? THEY represent US. When did we forget that we're in control? Even Ghandi's movement accomplished its successes by choosing to stand peacefully in the way of allowing things to happen to them. Rolling over and taking it seems to be a matter of course any more. I am not sure if I am more surprised or disgusted by my own country's actions.
For example, you can not be arrested for walking down the street and being unable to produce your birth certificate.
But it has already been a very long time since it has been possible to be detained for not being able to produce your state ID that is based on that birth certificate. The limitations on that are so slim as to be non-existent. Probable cause? "Oh, we're looking for someone matching your description." This has happened to me numerous times. In one case, the officer was fortunate enough to be holding a mug shot I could see just enough of to actually justify the encounter, so I gladly complied. My cooperation comes with significantly less ease when the justification is less so.
I don't follow this sheepishly, but I do realize that the sky has already long since fallen and, ironically, a national ID would solve as many problems for the individual as people think it would cause.
...ID is not for old people
I don't think you read my explanation of why that's not so.
* A centralized ID with RFID chips will be standard among all American citizens
Again, not all American citizens, only you non-Boomers. We Boomers are EXEMPT. Which part of Not Going To Be Required To Have This are you missing?
* Unknown to the general populace, the chip will be scanned using sensors in various public places
It already is. Some terrorist groups have started surveillance of US passports with RFID in Germany, so they can clone the numbers for attacks. While this may not be generally well-known, it is already happening.
* After recognizing the individual, a query gets wrapped up and sent to the fed RDBMS:
INSERT into citizen_activities (id, place, time) VALUES ("L520-AC38-F09C", "Transit Station 64C", NOW());
Unless they shielded it. A number of states have decided not to implement RealID, and are protected from doing so by their State Constitutions, which override presidential authorizations. Only a US Constitutional amendment can override these, or a US Supreme Court ruling to that effect, and most legal scholars have come out saying that such a ruling is highly unlikely.
* Very soon, the government can track all of our activities
No. They can track your activities. I was born in 1960 and I live in one of those states. I also have a 20 year passport that was issued pre-RFID.
Now, get off my lawn, you young wippersnapper!
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Or didnt you notice that foreigners HAVE to show electronically readable passports for years now?
No passport with chip, no passing through immigration.
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
State IDs can be looked up anywhere you are in the US anyway, making them just about equivalent to a national ID. Just think of the State ID system as a distributed National ID.
When they start requiring a RFID chip in my forehead, I might start worrying. So far, it's just a picture ID not much different what current State IDs are with your name and address and birthdate, etc.
As it is, your State ID can be looked up no matter where you are in the USA.
According to the current CNN article, 17 US states have either State Constitutions that legally override this non-interstate commerce regulation or have otherwise sued on behalf of the legal State Privacy rights of their citizens.
You can read about the legal suits by 17 states and decide if this is just Big Brother, or a bunch of privacy-hating anti-American bureaucratic incompetents who hate our values.
But it should be noted that the 17 states represent more than 50 percent of the US economy, and most legal jurists agree that it is unlikely that the US Supreme Court will strike down the states legal objections. Unless they want us to activate our state militias - and considering we control most of the armed forces, that might not be such a great concept.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
You know with all this talk of government invading our lives, I wonder why suicide rates here in New Hampshire aren't higher.
1984 was a totalitarian communist state -- where paper records and free thought were not allowed. Compared to 1984's Oceania, Soviet Russia was a paradise.
Just because the government can watch you does not mean we're heading to a dystopia. All that matters is what the government DOES.
Unless the fed's are changing the history books ("Oh, no, George W. Bush was only elected in 2004"), stop crying wolf. You're only making it easier for the other side to dismiss your argument.
Sure, it will still be a state-issued driver's license (or non-license ID). And many states already meet the pre-license verification and anti-counterfeiting measures required by RealID. But the bigger problem is that it all goes to a "secure," consolidated Federal database. What are the safeguards against abuse, tampering, or theft? DHS won't say. How are they maintaining this massive data warehouse? Nobody knows.
Try not to do anything suspicious, ok?
I'm pretty sure Ron Paul would be against it, but, who of the candidates with a realistic chance of being elected has come out against the Real ID act?
Imagine if everybody who thinks Ron Paul doesn't have a chance votes for him.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
That was pure chance.
The population of the WTC complex at noontime was around 90,000.
We are talking about sixteen acres of prime Manhattan office space, an immense public plaza, world-class restaurants, observation decks, shopping centers, an underground transit center, and so on.
The attack was a coordinated assault on iconic American structures and institutions.
The WTC. The Pentagon. Washington, DC. Stop thinking like a Geek for one minute and imagine the public reaction to the loss of the White House or the Capital Building.
Katrina did not ground U.S. continental air traffic or drive an entire industry towards bankruptcy.
There are few world cities that could have taken the economic shock of 9/11. The WTC alone was insured for $4.1 billion in property damage. World Trade Center Disaster
That we get serious about national identity cards. Well done for the Bush Administration, I only wish we could vote him into office again
Impetuous! Homeric!
You win, fair and square.
Thanks for the laugh. I needed it.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Since I am never going to fly again anyway. ( ozone destruction ).
Its kinda sad, that they could have used hash codes for tatoos.
Your never going to get rid of that...
You're not telling the full story.
If it all went down exactly as you say, then lawyers would be jumping up and down for a chance to represent you, regardless of your financial status. Such a clear cut case of abuse would easily make headlines and create priceless publicity for any lawfirm invovled. Take a look at the recent tazer case compared to your claimed scenario, I doubt he will have any trouble finding free legal representation.
Although you're the boy that cried wolf. But you don't cry, you scream this "I'm oppressed" bullshit every chance you get.
Mods: please mark Homelessinlajolla as a troll. While it is entertaining to refute his delusions every once and a while, it has been shown countless times that he is a fictional character. His conspiracy theories often even contradict themselves.
...I won't carry one. I won't carry any blauscheim no matter what this generation of Nazis wants to call my driver's license. If they don't like my driving they can talk to my .44. They certainly aren't getting my ID. Because I never leave home with it. If everyone in the country stopped carrying their license and started wearing a gun, we could go a long way towards wresting control of our government and laws away from the fascists and back to the people where it belongs.
It's all you license toting cowards that are fucking up the whole democracy thing. You should go ahead and re-read the constitution and then remember how right I am.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
According to the Constitution this would be illegal
...for Guiliani's speech generator.
over 50, no spouse, no kids, no problem :-) Yeah!!!
Be afraid. Be exceptionally afraid!
... (with video and text follows)
... 911 and mind control 101 is so much easier to accept.
Subject: the 'missing' 911 video you were not supposed to see!
Re: The 9/11 druggie (using and/or smuggling?) 'pilots' flying planes?
Hogwash! And there were no legally required criminal investigations! "19 HIJACKERS"? ID or no ID "using box-cutters"? ROFLMAO! All debunked!
The video footage we are not supposed to see is here! http://www.vialls.com/wtc/radiocontrol.html
Flight 175, a 767 jumbo, flew in from the west at 575 mph, and executed a 45 to 90 degree turn at full speed to hit the south side of the south tower! Watch the video!
Flight 175 at 575 miles per hour - was flown by remote control over-ride 'flight director' that will not allow speeds that fast, at that altitude, to be achieved 'manually' (by the pilot)!
That can only be done by using remote control 'over-ride', 'flight director' because 'safety limits of the aircraft and manual control software and systems will not let a human pilot to do it!!!
Subject: re: the 9/11 drug pilots? Hogwash!
Date: sat, 5 Jan 2008 19:25:58 +0000
The 911 planes were flown by remote control. Atta was a stoner and a lush; far too wasted to pilot any airplane - much less a commercial one.
I personally remember when Nixon ordered "remote control over-ride of all u.s. Commercial airliners" to stop domestic hi-jackings - which worked!
It is called flight director by Boeing, and it is installed in all Boeing commercial aircraft - by executive order!
From the late Joe www.vialls.com
Film footage of Flight 175 long-range approach to WTC
http://www.vialls.com/wtc/radiocontrol.html
Dulles 'hijacker' video not filmed on 9-11
Http://www.vialls.com/wtc/clueless.htm
Quote: "during early 1995, Boeing sales experienced an unconnected but serious internal problem in Europe, though the details were never made public. The German flag carrier Lufthansa discovered that its new Boeing 747-400 aircraft had been fitted with flight directors [auto-pilots] that were vulnerable to American remote-control, ostensibly designed to "recover" hijacked aircraft whether the hijackers wanted to be recovered or not. Lufthansa was not informed about this "free extra" in advance, and was furious that its sovereign aircraft might be covertly "rescued" by America, without the knowledge or permission of the German government.
In a mammoth operation rumored to cost in excess of $800 million, Lufthansa stripped every flight director out of every Boeing in its fleet, replacing them in toto with German systems programmed by the Luftwaffe [German air force]. According to a member of the German internal security service in Frankfurt during October 1996, all Lufthansa aircraft had by that date been secured, rendering them invulnerable to remote flight director commands transmitted by any and all American authorities. Under the new intelligence protocols, Russia and France were made aware of these flight director risks."
End quote.
Make no mistake.
The 9/11 mass murder was an inside criminal job and/or criminally negligent!
Lest we forget. When the truth is simply too horrific to confront
Two planes knock down 3 buildings? (hmmm. Only in Hollywood and Saturday morning cartoons.)
Http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/92.html (10 minutes)
Too many 'big-wig' people got warnings not to fly. Too many people made a killing on the stock exchange in airline puts and WTC 7 had the evidence of that - and the dot com swindles - the evidence - automatically archived on the security and exchange commission's computers!
All destroyed! How bloody damned convenient!
Open your eyes! Wake up and sniff the stench around you!
When idiots cannot debate they laugh over
Huh, who would of thought that the AARP would have more clout than the ACLU?
I dream in binary.
Big brother is coming for you...dumb dumb dumb....big brother is coming for you....dumb dumb dumb.....bullet in the back of the head....dumb dumb dumb...
I actually support a nationalized ID. Currently, we have 50 states with 50 different ID systems. A state issued ID is already required to fly in most cases, and some sort of ID or drivers license is required to execute many government services. If somebody wants to live in a hermit hole and be paranoid, that's their choice, however unifying the ID system in the US will cut down on infrastructure in the long run because every state will use the same system. People are worried about needing to publicly present their ID when asked by the cops, and while it is still your right in some areas not to present it, prepare to get a hard time by the cops if you do in those cases. In my opinion, the people opposing a unified ID system are, for the most part, conspiracy whackos.
Anyone over 50 is jussssst fine.
Sorry. Just plain true. See 10th Amendment.
Why would I want to commit criminal acts ? Well, I don't know, *yet*. What is criminal tomorrow may be something that is perfectly legal to do today. Even if it is illegal today, I may find myself in a situation where I am compelled to commit a criminal act, for whatever reason, be it for my own safety or liberty. Laws, after all, are formulated for the masses, they are not suitable for imposing on 100% of the people 100% of the time. That sounds elitist, but every person is an elite of one.
Take drugs for instance. (I don't want to get into specific examples, because they detract from the main principle, but)- If I grow and smoke my own cannabis, who exactly am I harming ? I am not financing terrorists, I am not financing columbian warlords or the Taliban, and as I consume all I grow, I am not corrupting schoolkids, by hanging around the playground trying to push it on others. The only "crime" is that I am not paying tax on my pleasure. But because the law works in respect of the masses, I am penalised for a purely personal action, because you can't trust everybody to be so honest and responsible. Why should I suffer the loss of my freedom because others can't be trusted ? (This is why I don't want to get into examples, there will be loads of posts spouting crap about we all have to give up certain freedoms for the good of society).
To get back to the main point, my ability to break the law. Freedom includes the ability to break the law, if I so choose. If we are to have a moral society, it must be at the choice of that society, not imposed upon it. I don't murder, steal, rape etc, not because they are illegal, but because I have no inner drive compelling me to do so. I don't need a law to tell me not to do these things. The law is not designed to prevent me from doing these things either, it exists to provide a framework in which those who do commit such acts can be punished. Remember that part, it's important - Law provides a framework for punishment.
Now while I may not commit murder, I do quite often break the speed limit, or watch a downloaded movie. These are not unspeakably evil acts, but they are breaking the law. There are other situations in which I could conceive of breaking more serious laws. The point is, until I reach a situation, I have no way of knowing what I might have to do. To voluntarily submit to laws which restrict my freedom of action now, without knowing how that will affect my future freedom would be dumb.
I use Linux. One of the main reason for that choice is, Linux is not Microsoft. If there were a law passed which made the use of unauthorised operating systems illegal, then you can bet MS would be the legal choice. Windows is already one of the most controlling environments available, so if it were influenced by govt. then all sorts of horrible scenarios present themselves. Under such a system, Linux (or another free OS) would be the only sane choice. But of course it would be illegal. Oh dear, I'm a criminal.
Now we come to REAL ID and other such governmental record keeping. This kind of lawmaking serves no purpose other than to make the lives of those in power easier. That is to say, they get to consolidate their power over the rest of us, by closing off all avenues of escape or evasion. Well if you haven't paid taxes for 5 years and the govt. is chasing you, then the law makes sense. But if you just want to remain quietly anonymous, the the law works against you. You are part of the system, whether you are a criminal or not. And don't give me any of that "if you've got nothing to hide" crap. That's a childs argument to trick you into showing your hand. How many people who use that argument walk around naked ?
Maybe I'm getting old, but
"unable to board a plane after 2014". I think that may be literally true. I doubt people over 50 will be safe either.
With the move to inspect laptops, invasive scanning, shoe removal, carry on limitations.... boarding a plane after 2014 will mean something a little different.
More likely, you will be stripped naked, groped, scanned, chipped, sedated, stuffed into a one size does not fit all orange jumpsuit, and CARTED onto the plane in a Hannibal The Cannibal Psycho Dolley (TM). First class would of course get the courtesy of a reach-around when going through "security".
It may turn out to be, in a tragically ironic twist, that felons flying "Con-Air" will be treated better then the citizens.
That's going to be awesome, when the President of Mexico has to put forward measures to stop the rampant illegal immigration from the US.
Living in Canada, I'm getting more patriotic by the week with these stories.
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
It will be by the time this law passes though.
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
This is not good.
The other interesting thing: as a foreign visitor to the US, I won't have any of these IDs. So will foreign visitors now no longer be allowed to board internal flights?
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
"California takes your right thumbprint when getting a driver's license"
"And that's tolerated? WTF?"
Fine, tough guy, one day you'll go into your local DMV and when they ask for your thumb print, you'll just walk away without a drivers license.
Yeah, sure, you will.
I was outraged as well, when I first had to do it (in CA).
But submitting one's thumb print seems paltry, compared to trying to get around without a vehicle, and learning just how much productive/leisure time is lost from your life, while waiting for public transportation, rides, riding a bike, walking, etc..
Oh, and do send us a postcard from whatever third world country you wind up moving to that doesn't require a thumb print for a drivers license, will you?
If it don't GO... chrome it. ~ Frank Banks
Seriously, as a masterpiece of PR the attack was and as sad as the pointless waste of lives and people's loved ones was, more than 40,000 people get killed on US roads every year. The administration's response is way beyond the magnitude of the threat. I think back to when I was in London and the subtle but effective manner the brits handled similar efforts by the the IRA.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
In other news the AARP is to investigate al quada's discriminatory hiring practices.
I live in Californiia and I don't carry an ID. AFIK, since i don't drive, there are very few occasions when i'm leggally requirtred to carry it.But what you say is the opposite. So, according to you, it's required to carry one? As in a police state. And if i get caught without it, say minding my own business walking down the street, i can be cuffed and deatained/arrested ?
Oh yeah, what do you think of my wifi-fuzzer? I rigged it from a TV remote and some other common electronic pieces.
"What happens when you get to another country that isn't perfect? Why not stay here and fight?" I wonder if that's what some Germans/Jews said to the first round of Jews who left Germany.
That's what I feel like as an American permanent resident of Canada - like the first round of Jews fleeing Germany must have felt. I didn't leave *solely* because the US seemed headed toward Fascism, but it was one reason. How do you fight it when (at that time anyway) fully half the country was in favour of Bush's Orwellian vision of the state? Sorry, but I didn't want to wait around for Dick Cheney's concentration camps in Virginia. I've lived here in Ontario for nearly three years now and the healthcare setup *alone* will keep me here forever. Things aren't perfect here but I'm under less stress than I was in the US. In a few more years, no one's going to give a crap about their loss of civil liberties there because they'll be too busy living hand-to-mouth in their neighbourhood Tent City. I felt the squeeze on the middle class before I left, and I live better now in Toronto - more money (even before the dollar fell), I don't have to own a car anymore, and I am about to sign a lease for a bigger apartment than I had in CT.
I admit...I gave up. The Fascists and inbred Jesusland rednecks won. I'm just waiting to see how long it will take before I refuse to cross the border because I'm not sure the US will let me go back to Canada again.
One thing I will state about the CAnadians. Too many of them live with a bit of a rose-coloured view of life here, thinking what happened in the US can never happen here. However, I see two huge problems here that I saw twenty years ago in the US: Apathy and ignorance. Retarded 9/11 conspiracy theories are the Creationism of Canadians, so never let one ask you why Americans are stupid enough to believe in Creationism. And they are apathetic - voter turnout is dropping and Canadians are whining the way Americans did before they realized that not voting gives you a President with the brain of a garden weed and a Congress with the morals of the Mafia..."My vote doesn't matter. What's the use, it won't change anything anyway. I don't have time. I have to pick up the kids on voting day. Waaaaah waaahh waaahh."
No one seems to grasp that Stephen Harper and the Tories are just as dangerous as the Republicans - it's just that they don't have the power or the popular support (yet) of the people. Of course, if Canada ever suffers a real terrorist attack here, I wonder if that could change on a dime.
Flamebait?
You have to be joking!
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Didn't know that about WW II, interesting, thanks. That said, in 1812, the Brits burned down Washington. On 9/11, lower Manhattan was decimated. A few isolated hits on the West Coast don't quite have the same impact on the country as the others.
Absolutely, the threat is real, and we need to keep them contained. That means acknowledging that 9/11 did NOT change everything, just our perspective. These people are dangerous and crazy, but it's not terrorism that did it.
Despite these lunatics making life hard and expensive on Israelis for 15 years, Israel's economy and per capita income grew faster than just about any other "Western" country in that time frame. They may have half the per capita income as the US, but they've caught up with a bunch of European states, despite spending 7.5% of GDP (with US Aid kicking in another 2%) on defense. While it would be better for Israel to not have crazy people wanting to blow up pizza parlors, they are functioning with far worse than we are.
The bigger issue, as I see it, is the increased concentration of wealth over there because of high oil prices, and Europe's inability to integrate their Arab and Muslim immigrants. Leave them angry and isolated, and not only are they a growing percentage of the population there, but the percentage of "useful idiots" to appease them goes down. If 25% of France becomes crazy immigrants, then a party capturing 1/3 of the rest of the population (including integrated Arabs and Muslims that aren't crazy immigrants) can form a majority with the crazy people.
Containing radical Islam involves a war of ideas, spreading wealth to the common people in the middle east (because middle class people are more likely to rebel and depose of the current dictators), and some momentum shifts on population. If they just grow faster in the "war of the womb" then anywhere they go, they gain in power. There is a lot to worry about, but crazy assholes with box cutters just isn't one of them. Them getting nuclear material from Iran, Pakistan, or France is FAR more of a risk than more planes being hijacked.
How many people do you know that only conduct transactions in cash, do not own a vehicle or own or rent a home, do not subscribe to any professional organizations, don't file taxes, don't maintain any professional licenses or certifications, and are self-employed?
Who lives like this?
I do.
I achieve all those requirements by living in my mother's basement, you insensitive clod.
"I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace."
President George W. Bush, June 18, 2002.
This law targets one group and one group only: Illegal immigrants. This is an attempt by the anti-immigrant crowd to make life a little harder for the filthy wetbacks pouring across our borders by making them pay more for fake documents. Just like the increased border patrols are designed to make more of them die crossing the deep desert.