I see it this way: It shows how pathetic the Linux world of 150+ distros is. They can't agree on what a "common Linux binary" yet every X86 based Unix was able to come up with a Linux compatibility mode that works.
And, when the Linux community gets done with the in-fighting over a common binary, BSD/SCO/Sun will be there with a mode to run them.
How did we end up with a Linux binary as the 'compatibilty standard'? 86Open was an attempt to create a standard X86 op-cde unix binary. And, lo and behold, the in-fighting killed that. Most of the people involved in the project came out with a Linux compatiblity mode.
The people asking for shrink-wraped binaiers need to ask for binaries that work EVERWHERE, not just RedHat. Because people are content to accept redhat only binaries, RedHat has no desire to change this.
Mac Advocacy has the SAME problems that Linux 'advocates' now show.
Flame mail if you do not agree with the unwashed advocacy masses.
Example: Old InfoWorld Columist Stewart Alsop. He wrote that the NeXT deal didn't include the most important part of NeXT - Steve Jobs. He was flamed at the time. Yet, history proved Alsop right, and he *STILL* gets flamed by parts of the Mac community whenever he says anything about Macs.
If one wants to take the time to see how little such flame-based advocacy helped the Mac, you can see the future of the Linux OS, if one bases advocacy on flameage.
Linux is all about choice and OpenSource. Yet, when BSD is mentioned here on/., a dependable group of./ers come out and post whitty comments like "BSD sucks". You are "sick" about when "big media and big business to disparage Linux", so why do you tolerate BSD oses getting the bums rush? BSD doesn't have any hi-flying billion dollar IPO's. BSD has people like ESR saying "BSD should be getting more press than they do". BSD is an underdog, just like Linux. So why then tolerate the Anti-BSD people in the OpenSource tent?
>Linuxer gets angry and vocal in reply to said insult, he/she becomes the bad guy? I know all about the Advocacy HOWTO, and I personally am not a flamey mail-bomber. But I believe it IS an effective form of advocacy.
Then you are as much to blame as the 'flamey mail-bomber' for the view that the OpenSource world is a bunch of lusers.
Take for example THIS classic bit of advocacy:
From: Joe Barr [joe@pjprimer.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 8:02 AM To: sales@mindcraft.com Subject: Industry Scum
Hey, Mindcraft
I am writing an article about asslicking whores in the industry.
You know the sort, they bend over for folks like Bill Gates by producing totally false "benchmarks" based on liess, mistests, biased hardware and software, and scores of other unethical, deceiptful, dishonest, duplicitous means.
Like your reviews of NT vs Novell and Linux. Classic cases of professional prostitution.
Cock sucking the geeks in Redmond.
The question for you maggots, whores, whatever you prefer to be called, is: how much does it cost to buy one of your benchmarks?
tHANKS,
Joe Barr The Dweebspeak Primer
Joe Barr holds a very public position at LinuxWorld. And, if people you are trying to convince that OpenSource is *NOT* a bunch of immature hot-heads, exaclty how does Joe Barr's letter help you convince others that OpenSource is ready for prime-time?
600+ people commented on Metcalfe's latest article. Most of them got down on him for his view of OpenSource and Linux. But, if you were an outsider looking into the OpenSource tent for the 1st time, wouldn't YOU walk away with a similar impression?
And, you have the freedom to write your own code that functions just like it.
This is a great oppertunity for OpenSource. OpenSource advocates can point at the UCITA and mention how, with OpenSource, you can not have the program shut down from outside vendors.
The OpenSource movement might as well take the lemon that UCITA is and make lemon-aide. Send letters to Micro$oft and point out how the heavy handedness of the UCITA will help move people and companies to OpenSource. Be sure to thank Microsoft and the rest of the supporters of the UCITA.
>That would make it more cliquey, less open to interesting newbies and (worst) dominated by the no-life-outside-Slashdot otaku.
Signal 11 has had this theme, and I agree. Moderation on slashdot has little to do with what you say, but more to do with if you say pro-linux or anti-microsoft stuff.
If I post as an AC, the post will get moderated 1-3. If I post as myself, no moderation.
Why? Because in the past I've responded to the poster and told them what I thought of there idea. And I've been a vocal supported on the BSD licence, as opposed to the pro-linux adjenda. (And yes, you are STILL wacked.)
This place is nothing but one big clique. And there is NO WAY to have moderation solve the clique problem.
There *IS* a way to solve the spammer problem: 1) Deny them the venue. Allow someone to post as much as they want, and, from the IP/browser they are at, the posts are there. The rest of us don't see the posts. (I can suggest #1 because I don't have to write the code to implement it) 2) Delete the spam. 3) Some of the slashdot population is willing to mederated down spam. Give people who want to do this the power to do this.
If [1-3] fails:
4) Track down the spammer and give 'em some Open Sores. A beating with the clue stick should result in some Open Sores.
Oh, Oh! you forgot Newton developers and OpenDoc developers (Anyone remember that the official documentation standard for COBRA was OpenDoc?) The Apple ][ developers who were knifed have long gotten medical care, or their corpses were picked clean. (Beagle Bros comes to mind as a company that never made a Mac or MS-DOS transition)
The 1st question is: Is Unix now ready for the desktop?
Apple will be the next company with the faith to try.
(and, to think, Apple's desktop experiment will be using large parts of BSD. So making a BSD port of code used on a Mac should be simple...if they write the code with such portability in mind.)
Think of the potential! You can learn: 1) What toys the boys bought with their IPO money 2) What the next version of/. code will look like 3) Who will by/. next
Like the Netwon. Or OpenDoc (the official documentaion format for COBRA)
Or how Mac OS X was going to run on X86 op-code machines, and all macs made in 1997.
Things change at Apple. The present Apple is run by a man who felt burned by Apple ][ clones, and sees advantages to closed hardware/software.
Re:Linuxites think this is not news; Neither is 2.
on
BSD Quickies
·
· Score: 1
Hey! You forgot how when Be released 4.5, there was a slashdot post. Or that BeOS was to be pre-loaded. Guess that is not news for nerds, stuff that matters either.
I have a better idea, if they can't pay for a booth, they can't be at the show.
No, wait. They allready do that too.
Oh, Oh! If you want a show to only have what YOU want in it, then I guess the only way to do that will be for you to organize it, and decide who can and can't be there.
What's that? You don't have the money to set that up?
What else could be expected from people who get free $25 passes into the show, and go from booth to booth looking for free tee-shirts, whistle rings, and Free CD's with FreeBSD on them. (disk one)
You are what you post.... Re:Arrogance
on
BSD Quickies
·
· Score: 1
>You dont see the Linux community bad mouthing BSD
I don't?
>Linux at a Linux show. Get your own show and leave ours the hell alone!
Ok, so can I say that you consider yourself part of the "linux community"?
Good.
So, if the "Linux Community" is not bad mouthing BSD, then what exactly are you saying when you post: >Arrogant BSD people >BSD camp is they seem to have their heads in the sand. or my favorite: >small number of arrogant shitheads that give their entire community a bad name.
Yup. Looks like a small, select number of Linux users gives the Linux community a bad name.
Lets settle this once and for all.
on
BSD Quickies
·
· Score: 1
Does anyone have a MP3 of the Keynote they can put up on the web?
That way, we can all listen to the speech and decide what Linus did (or did not) say?
1) Ever try to find a GQ OpenSource coder? Most of them sit in front of keyboards all day long, typing and eathing chips/drinking dew. 2) Most show attendees are male. Most males are hetrosexual. Sex sells. (I leave it to you to connect the dots) 3) Think about noteable OpenSource coders. Imagine them in a provocative outfit, holding a pitchfork. Somehow Linus or Maddog in a thong is just not something most people want to see. (the wifes of both parties are excluded)
Funny thing that. WAS Re:This pisses me off a lot.
on
BSD Quickies
·
· Score: 1
>What's with the big chip on (it seems) most BSDers shoulders? and >Why do you get so annoyed about it?
Perhaps you should ask the people who came up to the BSD booth and said: "This is Linuxworld. What are *YOU* doing at *OUR* show?" Seems they were annoyed. Perhaps you can ask them why they felt slighted?
Or the ones who said: "Why should I believe you, the great deciever?" (a reference to the use of the Daemon as the symbol.)
>although with Linux you have to make the source code available, but with BSD you don't.
Apple has taken code from Net/Open/FreeBSD. Their OS is called Mac OS X. Linux has taken code from BSD and they call it Linux. And that BSD code taken into Linux can't come back into BSD.
Seems if someone takes the BSD code and CHANGES it, it is no longer Free/Open/NetBSD. It becomes whatever the taker WANTS to call it.
If someone wants to give the code BACK to the BSD community, if the code is well written and passes muster with the community, it will get included. If the code sucks, then it won't make it into the mainstream release.
Apple's Newton 2000 was demoed with voice software from Dragon Systems.
Had a 32 programmable word functioning for the demo. Full details used to be on the Newton FTP site, but Apple dropped that site. So you have to buy one of the compilation CD's that exist if you want to see it/track down the.PDF on your own.
As for Linux on a PDA - No one was talking at LinuxWorld. So no one is close enough to ship anytime soon.
Why is your petition not supportive of OpenSource Operating Systems? Or asking Apple to OpenSource as much of the player as they can?
Why does it only support Linux?
Consider, Mac OS X is based on BSD. Asking them to support BSD *AND* Linux makes sense, because the porting work to BSD has been done. Linux would be an afterthought, as most of the code for BSD is done.
Code theft happens in many ways. Outright theft, where the code is copied. Reading the code of one, and re-implementing is another form of theft. Taking the code, and doing variable replacements.
Is this theft: two screens. One has what you are copying, the other where you are re-tying the code you are using for guidance.
At what level of theft would a judge agree with you that you have been violated?
In the end, it is far more productive for the coders to stop worring about code theft (because it WILL happen) and if others will make money off their code (Example: Linux) and worry more about doing the best they can with the code.
>As a marketing guy it is my JOB to dictate technology.
Your *JOB*? Your JOB may be that...but you are asking the OpenSource community to listen to you.
Exactly HOW do you intend to influence them? Money? Fame? Saying that if they invest thousands of hours of their life so a browser/OS becomes marginally faster and less stable? (When, if they want more speed, they can go buy a faster computer with more memory for less of an investment than the code changes)
>but trust me we in marketing know what sells and that's the bottom line.
Trust me, the bottom line matters. And free at $0 for 250 boxes VS $400 for 250 boxes makes a decision easy.
>My corporation believes that Linux has the potential to become the next "Pokemon".
Well, the cats out of the bag.
(background singers in ()'s and a jamacian accent) Each time a Linux distro is mentioned, a picture of the box is flashed on the screen.
Now on Kids WB
Got install them all Got install them all (linuxmon) Red hat Turbo linux SuSE Zentropics (linxmon!) Storm Corel Debian Mandrake (at least 150 or more to install to be a linux distro geek is my destiny!) Slackware OpenLinux mklinux stampede Watch next time as Taco, Hermos and Roblimo continue their quest to become linux distro masters. You got to install them all! (install, install) (got to install them all, linuxmon) (install, install) (got to install them all, linuxmon) (install, install) (got to install them all. linuxmon!)
The collectable cards you can buy, but you can also download and printout the cards, or just photocopy them and use them in sanctioned play. (the GPL strikes again)
Player 1: I choose RedHat! Player 2: And I choose Corel, because the blue box more powerful against red boxes. Player 1: Ok, you beat my RedHat, so I choose FreeBSD! Player 2: Hey, I didn't think we were able to use Linux compatible modes in the battle! No fair! Player 1: No, I'm using the optional GPL licence compatibilty rules. Player 2: you are truly a Linux Distro master. I yeild.
Emmet: Opens Transmeta PDA "Hi I'm Dexter, your LinuxDex." Emmet: "What kind of linux distro is that?" "Scanning hard drive...RedHat 6.1, the evolved form of RedHat 5.2. Its more powerful packaging includes the RPM, Deluxe and Professional release sets."
And with your Linuxball you can keep only 6 CDs in it, other CD's are left at the office or home.
Slashdot Mirror
Its up on the Internet....you just need to know where to look.
The SGI people had it up at LinuxWorld.
And Linus says fragmentation is OK.
He said that at LinuxWorld.
And, when the Linux community gets done with the in-fighting over a common binary, BSD/SCO/Sun will be there with a mode to run them.
How did we end up with a Linux binary as the 'compatibilty standard'?
86Open was an attempt to create a standard X86 op-cde unix binary. And, lo and behold, the in-fighting killed that. Most of the people involved in the project came out with a Linux compatiblity mode.
The people asking for shrink-wraped binaiers need to ask for binaries that work EVERWHERE, not just RedHat. Because people are content to accept redhat only binaries, RedHat has no desire to change this.
Mac Advocacy has the SAME problems that Linux 'advocates' now show.
Flame mail if you do not agree with the unwashed advocacy masses.
Example: Old InfoWorld Columist Stewart Alsop. He wrote that the NeXT deal didn't include the most important part of NeXT - Steve Jobs. He was flamed at the time. Yet, history proved Alsop right, and he *STILL* gets flamed by parts of the Mac community whenever he says anything about Macs.
If one wants to take the time to see how little such flame-based advocacy helped the Mac, you can see the future of the Linux OS, if one bases advocacy on flameage.
*sigh*
/., a dependable group of ./ers come out and post whitty comments like "BSD sucks". You are "sick" about when "big media and big business to disparage Linux", so why do you tolerate BSD oses getting the bums rush?
Linux is all about choice and OpenSource. Yet, when BSD is mentioned here on
BSD doesn't have any hi-flying billion dollar IPO's. BSD has people like ESR saying "BSD should be getting more press than they do". BSD is an underdog, just like Linux. So why then tolerate the Anti-BSD people in the OpenSource tent?
>Linuxer gets angry and vocal in reply to said insult, he/she becomes the bad guy? I know all about the Advocacy HOWTO, and I personally am not a flamey mail-bomber. But I believe it IS an effective form of advocacy.
Then you are as much to blame as the 'flamey mail-bomber' for the view that the OpenSource world is a bunch of lusers.
Take for example THIS classic bit of advocacy:
From: Joe Barr [joe@pjprimer.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 8:02 AM
To: sales@mindcraft.com
Subject: Industry Scum
Hey, Mindcraft
I am writing an article about asslicking whores in the industry.
You know the sort, they bend over for folks like Bill Gates by
producing totally false "benchmarks" based on liess, mistests,
biased hardware and software, and scores of other unethical,
deceiptful, dishonest, duplicitous means.
Like your reviews of NT vs Novell and Linux. Classic cases of professional prostitution.
Cock sucking the geeks in Redmond.
The question for you maggots, whores, whatever you prefer to be called, is: how much does it cost to buy one of your benchmarks?
tHANKS,
Joe Barr The Dweebspeak Primer
Joe Barr holds a very public position at LinuxWorld. And, if people you are trying to convince that OpenSource is *NOT* a bunch of immature hot-heads, exaclty how does Joe Barr's letter help you convince others that OpenSource is ready for prime-time?
600+ people commented on Metcalfe's latest article. Most of them got down on him for his view of OpenSource and Linux. But, if you were an outsider looking into the OpenSource tent for the 1st time, wouldn't YOU walk away with a similar impression?
You have the freedom to NOT use the products.
And, you have the freedom to write your own code that functions just like it.
This is a great oppertunity for OpenSource. OpenSource advocates can point at the UCITA and mention how, with OpenSource, you can not have the program shut down from outside vendors.
The OpenSource movement might as well take the lemon that UCITA is and make lemon-aide. Send letters to Micro$oft and point out how the heavy handedness of the UCITA will help move people and companies to OpenSource. Be sure to thank Microsoft and the rest of the supporters of the UCITA.
>That would make it more cliquey, less open to interesting newbies and (worst) dominated by the no-life-outside-Slashdot otaku.
Signal 11 has had this theme, and I agree.
Moderation on slashdot has little to do with what you say, but more to do with if you say pro-linux or anti-microsoft stuff.
If I post as an AC, the post will get moderated 1-3. If I post as myself, no moderation.
Why? Because in the past I've responded to the poster and told them what I thought of there idea. And I've been a vocal supported on the BSD licence, as opposed to the pro-linux adjenda. (And yes, you are STILL wacked.)
This place is nothing but one big clique. And there is NO WAY to have moderation solve the clique problem.
There *IS* a way to solve the spammer problem:
1) Deny them the venue. Allow someone to post as much as they want, and, from the IP/browser they are at, the posts are there. The rest of us don't see the posts. (I can suggest #1 because I don't have to write the code to implement it)
2) Delete the spam.
3) Some of the slashdot population is willing to mederated down spam. Give people who want to do this the power to do this.
If [1-3] fails:
4) Track down the spammer and give 'em some Open Sores. A beating with the clue stick should result in some Open Sores.
Be sure to go to their form and in the comments add how BSD is YOUR choice of OS!
And, point out how a BSD-esque licence is a choice.
The last time they asked about Linux, they didn't have checkoffs for BSD. This time they did.
Oh, Oh!
you forgot Newton developers and OpenDoc developers (Anyone remember that the official documentation standard for COBRA was OpenDoc?)
The Apple ][ developers who were knifed have long gotten medical care, or their corpses were picked clean. (Beagle Bros comes to mind as a company that never made a Mac or MS-DOS transition)
>Who is to say that either Linux or Solaris were used in these attacks
/. should believe, correct?
Lets see:
NANOG
FBI
Sys admins who had boxes that were hijacked
No one the Linux-loving readers of
If you come and snoop our packets again, we will taunt you some more!
The 1st question is:
Is Unix now ready for the desktop?
Apple will be the next company with the faith to try.
(and, to think, Apple's desktop experiment will be using large parts of BSD. So making a BSD port of code used on a Mac should be simple...if they write the code with such portability in mind.)
Think of the potential! /. code will look like /. next
You can learn:
1) What toys the boys bought with their IPO money
2) What the next version of
3) Who will by
MkLinux was a pre-Jobs as iCEO project.
Like the Netwon. Or OpenDoc (the official documentaion format for COBRA)
Or how Mac OS X was going to run on X86 op-code machines, and all macs made in 1997.
Things change at Apple. The present Apple is run by a man who felt burned by Apple ][ clones, and sees advantages to closed hardware/software.
Hey! You forgot how when Be released 4.5, there was a slashdot post. Or that BeOS was to be pre-loaded. Guess that is not news for nerds, stuff that matters either.
To only things that can run Linux binaries!
No, wait. BSD does that.
I have a better idea, if they can't pay for a booth, they can't be at the show.
No, wait. They allready do that too.
Oh, Oh! If you want a show to only have what YOU want in it, then I guess the only way to do that will be for you to organize it, and decide who can and can't be there.
What's that? You don't have the money to set that up?
What else could be expected from people who get free $25 passes into the show, and go from booth to booth looking for free tee-shirts, whistle rings, and Free CD's with FreeBSD on them. (disk one)
>You dont see the Linux community bad mouthing BSD
I don't?
>Linux at a Linux show. Get your own show and leave ours the hell alone!
Ok, so can I say that you consider yourself part of the "linux community"?
Good.
So, if the "Linux Community" is not bad mouthing BSD, then what exactly are you saying when you post:
>Arrogant BSD people
>BSD camp is they seem to have their heads in the sand.
or my favorite:
>small number of arrogant shitheads that give their entire community a bad name.
Yup. Looks like a small, select number of Linux users gives the Linux community a bad name.
Does anyone have a MP3 of the Keynote they can put up on the web?
That way, we can all listen to the speech and decide what Linus did (or did not) say?
>I want a daemon dude to pose with!
1) Ever try to find a GQ OpenSource coder? Most of them sit in front of keyboards all day long, typing and eathing chips/drinking dew.
2) Most show attendees are male. Most males are hetrosexual. Sex sells. (I leave it to you to connect the dots)
3) Think about noteable OpenSource coders. Imagine them in a provocative outfit, holding a pitchfork. Somehow Linus or Maddog in a thong is just not something most people want to see. (the wifes of both parties are excluded)
>What's with the big chip on (it seems) most BSDers shoulders?
and
>Why do you get so annoyed about it?
Perhaps you should ask the people who came up to the BSD booth and said:
"This is Linuxworld. What are *YOU* doing at *OUR* show?"
Seems they were annoyed. Perhaps you can ask them why they felt slighted?
Or the ones who said:
"Why should I believe you, the great deciever?" (a reference to the use of the Daemon as the symbol.)
>although with Linux you have to make the source code available, but with BSD you don't.
Apple has taken code from Net/Open/FreeBSD. Their OS is called Mac OS X. Linux has taken code from BSD and they call it Linux. And that BSD code taken into Linux can't come back into BSD.
Seems if someone takes the BSD code and CHANGES it, it is no longer Free/Open/NetBSD. It becomes whatever the taker WANTS to call it.
If someone wants to give the code BACK to the BSD community, if the code is well written and passes muster with the community, it will get included. If the code sucks, then it won't make it into the mainstream release.
Apple's Newton 2000 was demoed with voice software from Dragon Systems.
.PDF on your own.
Had a 32 programmable word functioning for the demo. Full details used to be on the Newton FTP site, but Apple dropped that site. So you have to buy one of the compilation CD's that exist if you want to see it/track down the
As for Linux on a PDA - No one was talking at LinuxWorld. So no one is close enough to ship anytime soon.
Why should you get any support?
Why is your petition not supportive of OpenSource Operating Systems? Or asking Apple to OpenSource as much of the player as they can?
Why does it only support Linux?
Consider, Mac OS X is based on BSD.
Asking them to support BSD *AND* Linux makes sense, because the porting work to BSD has been done. Linux would be an afterthought, as most of the code for BSD is done.
This is a re-hash of what others have said but:
Code theft happens in many ways. Outright theft, where the code is copied.
Reading the code of one, and re-implementing is another form of theft.
Taking the code, and doing variable replacements.
Is this theft:
two screens. One has what you are copying, the other where you are re-tying the code you are using for guidance.
At what level of theft would a judge agree with you that you have been violated?
In the end, it is far more productive for the coders to stop worring about code theft (because it WILL happen) and if others will make money off their code (Example: Linux) and worry more about doing the best they can with the code.
>As a marketing guy it is my JOB to dictate technology.
Your *JOB*?
Your JOB may be that...but you are asking the OpenSource community to listen to you.
Exactly HOW do you intend to influence them? Money? Fame? Saying that if they invest thousands of hours of their life so a browser/OS becomes marginally faster and less stable? (When, if they want more speed, they can go buy a faster computer with more memory for less of an investment than the code changes)
>but trust me we in marketing know what sells and that's the bottom line.
Trust me, the bottom line matters. And free at $0 for 250 boxes VS $400 for 250 boxes makes a decision easy.
>My corporation believes that Linux has the potential to become the next "Pokemon".
Well, the cats out of the bag.
(background singers in ()'s and a jamacian accent)
Each time a Linux distro is mentioned, a picture of the box is flashed on the screen.
Now on Kids WB
Got install them all
Got install them all
(linuxmon)
Red hat
Turbo linux
SuSE
Zentropics
(linxmon!)
Storm
Corel
Debian
Mandrake
(at least 150 or more to install
to be a linux distro geek is my destiny!)
Slackware
OpenLinux
mklinux
stampede
Watch next time as Taco, Hermos and Roblimo
continue their quest to become linux distro masters.
You got to install them all!
(install, install)
(got to install them all, linuxmon)
(install, install)
(got to install them all, linuxmon)
(install, install)
(got to install them all. linuxmon!)
The collectable cards you can buy, but you can also download and printout the cards, or just photocopy them and use them in sanctioned play. (the GPL strikes again)
Player 1: I choose RedHat!
Player 2: And I choose Corel, because the blue box more powerful against red boxes.
Player 1: Ok, you beat my RedHat, so I choose FreeBSD!
Player 2: Hey, I didn't think we were able to use Linux compatible modes in the battle! No fair!
Player 1: No, I'm using the optional GPL licence compatibilty rules.
Player 2: you are truly a Linux Distro master. I yeild.
Emmet: Opens Transmeta PDA
"Hi I'm Dexter, your LinuxDex."
Emmet: "What kind of linux distro is that?"
"Scanning hard drive...RedHat 6.1, the evolved form of RedHat 5.2. Its more powerful packaging includes the RPM, Deluxe and Professional release sets."
And with your Linuxball you can keep only 6 CDs in it, other CD's are left at the office or home.
Good luck on your plans. *waves fingers bye-bye*
Go for the name LinuxMon!