Again, we don't have pipelines from California to the rest of the country for gasoline anyway. There is a pipeline that runs from Arizona to Texas (that direction), but it never reaches California.
So again, it just isn't an issue for us here in California. We will have to truck it, or tanker it, but we already do so with gas, so it probably won't be a big cost adder for us.
But the problem is that his DNA will be stored forever. If he gives up his DNA to end his probation, they should dispose of their sample and delete any data related to it when his probation ends.
But the problme is, they won't.
So I do see a gray area here, where there wouldn't be on in a similar situation involving tracking anklets or something.
I can see why it is M$ wet dream, but I don't like it.
Sony lets developers run their own service, so you can play against people on the PC without having to pay anyone to do it. That sounds a lot better to me.
"As a result, ethanol is often manufactured close to the point of use or shipped by rail, increasing the cost of its use."
Again, in my state, it's not much of an issue. I know it is for the rest of you. We just don't have as many pipelines as the rest of you.
I can't imagine it would cost much to put a mixing system in. I mean, concrete has to be mixed all the way to delivery and it it's not very expensive at all. So it's an obstacle, but not a big one, at least financially. Logistically, it's probably a bit bigger problem.
It's trucked a lot. In my state (California) it's almost exclusively trucked. The pipelines coming from the rest of the country don't reach here.
Anyway, as the other poster mentioned, a little water is okay. And besides, what you call "sweat" is condensation. Water doesn't spontaneously appear in the pipelines. So any sweat on the inside of the pipe is merely the water that was already there in another form.
So keep the water out of the pipeline, and you won't have problems, sweating or no.
It's no problem to transfer heat to the PCB. PCBs are rated to very high temps. You cannot burn a PCB with heat sink goop. It simply cannot get hot enough. The chip would unsolder itself first.
Besides, on most chips (not CPUs, they produce too much heat energy), the PCB is the primary heatsink anyway. The heat goes from the die to the pins and the pins to the ground plane in the PCB and spreads out across the ground plane, away from the chip.
To think your PCB is at all thermally separated from your chips is incorrect. How could it with all that metal (solder, pins, contacts) connecting them together?
If these people have burnt and bubbled PCBs, they have other problems that reapplying TIM won't fix.
Tomb Raider with the Mystique was the first broad-market game with 3D acceleration.
Yes, I agree 3dfx made a much larger impact in the long run, parly because their output was so much better. But Tomb Raider was available before GLQuake, and I believe Tomb Raider was a lot more popular too.
It's iTunes Music Store, not Apple iTunes Music Store.
And the reason for this must be pretty obvious.
Yeah, I could figure Apple Corps could start their own music service, called Apple iDMS. Steve Jobs is such a Beatles' fan (even after all this), Apple Computer would never sue Apple Corps.
As to a lack of "Fair Play". I just don't see it that way. Apple Computer and Apple Corps settled this issue TWICE over the past twenty years (with payments and agreements). Apple Corps for some reason then decided they didn't need to stick to the terms of the settlement.
In the end, if you feel being there first and occupying a small corner of the music marketplace means you get to be the only one who gets to use the name of a popular fruit, then yes, there was some massive railroading going on here. Apple Computer ran over Apple Corps repeatedly and like a freight train.
This say the GIO64 backplane speed in Indigo2 was 266MB/sec.
This was probably great then, given the limitations of FPM RAM (EDO wasn't even around yet!), but it is peanuts now. Intel's FSBs and AMDs HTs hover at about 30 times this speed now, and there are plenty of slots which exceed this speed too.
Am I missing something? I only looked this up because the amount of time SGI has been out of the loop pretty much means that their systems cannot be anything special compared to current hardware. That doesn't mean they weren't ahead of their time, just that a lot of time has passed and even things that were ahead of their time then are nothing special now.
I had a couple friends who work at SGI and I was heavy into the computer graphics market then. SGI were doomed before they bought Cray. They basically started by taking the work of Evans & Sutherland and bring it to a whole new marketplace. They realized the potential of computer graphics in a broader market, not just defense and similar companies. The problem was, the market was even broader than SGI expected.
Oddly, it was the horrible Matrox Mystique video card that signalled the end for SGI. It wasn't the first 3D PC card, but for many people, it was the first one they owned and used. It ran Tomb Raider with 3d acceleration. These kinds of cards created a whole new market for 3D hardware. This board marketbase pumped money into these companies (Matrox, ATI, S3, and soon after, NVidia) very quickly. And this allowed them to advance their hardware rapidly to the point where a well-equipped PC could match the 3D performance of an SGI box.
SGI was addicted to selling $80K workstations in small numbers, and PCs running 3D Studio Max that could be configured for a bit over $10K just overran them. SGI refused to adapt. Because of their overhead, perhaps it was impossible for SGI to adapt. So SGI was in a marketplace where a 3D workstation could only fetch $10K (and falling), with a business model and overhead (like owning your own CPU designer, writing your own OS) that made it impossible for them to compete.
End of SGI.
I don't understand your assertion that SGI was an internet player. The cost of their systems meant you couldn't afford to buy an SGI for anything that didn't involve heavy graphics, or else you'd be wasting your money. SUN really did rule the roost there, for a while. Until a broad switch to PCs whomped them too.
I remember those space helmet stereos...
on
Gadgets, Then & Now
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· Score: 1
I would think you could do okay at 1G/hour in H.264. I would think 2G/hour in H.264 would look nearly identical to the MPEG-2 8G/hour source materials.
That having been said, the poster sets the bar absurdly low. "Better than DVD"? DVD looks like poop. I'm not going to buy a movie in a format that looks only as good as DVD.
In the end, I can play a DVD as long as I want and take it to other places. These downloads will be DRMed to high heaven, locked to a given machine. I'm not real interested in that.
You didn't design the system. You don't know the target temperature.
That's like saying if the furnace in my house runs more, it's a good thing. That's only the case if it is doing so for a good reason. If it's doing so because there's something wrong with the feedback loop, then it isn't a good thing. If it's doing so to keep the CPU down at 50C, it isn't a good thing. There is no evidence that silicon chips last longer if they are kept cooler. As long as they stay below the rated temps, the system is in great shape. Any additional active cooling just wastes energy.
It'd be one thing if someone out there had K-probes on every chip and the fans (for speed/duty cycle) and knew how the system works and made a change and showed it it made the system work better. Instead, there's people putting together a bunch of poor info into an even worse conclusions.
First of all, in the original thread, the person who first did this has "proof" where he measures the temperature of the case with an IR thermometer and it is a few degrees (C) cooler. Although you cannot measure the temperature of a metal surface (the case) with an IR thermometer. IR thermometers actually measure the wavelength of photons coming from the direction they are pointed. Shiny surfaces (metals) reflect photons and so you are measuring the temperature of whatever is reflected in the surface, not the metal surface itself.
Second, the person also says that after doing the "fix", the fan comes on more often. Of course if the fan comes on more often the unit will be cooler, because more heat is coming out as hot air. The question is why does the fan come on more often? Is that a good thing?
See, the basic problem is Apple has designed the MacBook Pro to run as a closed-loop thermostatic system. It has a target temp it is supposed to keep itself at. Presumably the chips and the case both have their own maximum temps. If you want to change the temperature of the system, you have to either alter the temperature of the sensors or change the target temp.
Perhaps these laptops are getting hotter than people like. But are they getting hotter than the target temp? It seems to me that likely people just don't like Apple's max target temp decision, which was selected to minimize running the fan, since running the fan takes power and makes noise.
In the face of this, perhaps Apple should lower the target temp, by altering the control software. Which they can do, they have done it before, the PB G4 12" I am on right now is notable for this. In some OS update they decided to run the fan more often to keep it cooler. But to have people open up units and change things that don't even necessarily alter the feedback loop is probably not something Apple wants.
Actually, all of that is off the point anyway. Remember how copyright works. It doesn't work like patents, if you do not enfore your copyright you lose it. Apple must send something awful a C&D notice, regardless of how their copyright is being infringed and whether the effects are positive or negative.
Yes, having too much heat sink goop between in the thermal interface is bad. Yes, you need to have a very small amount in that area.
But there is nothing wrong with putting more on as long as you apply sufficient pressure to squeeze the extra out. And that is what Apple's picture shows. A thin film in the thermal interface area and big globs around the interface area.
The film on the interface area is slightly thick, but it's not so thick that it would cause significant problems. It's not any thicker than the film that I saw on my NVidia 6800 Ultra or 7800GT when I removed the heatsinks to replace them with other cooling solutions.
And as to the lawyers thing, Apple just said to remove the link. It is illegal in this country to link to copyrighted material, not just to host it. Otherwise, bittorrent trackers would be legal, right?
This story is way out of control lately. I'm glad people are getting the message that putting a lot of TIM (thermal interface material, also known as heat sink goop) on is unnecessary. Maybe next time around they could actually learn enough about cooling to know what to look for in a picture of others' work.
Additionally, note that electrical conductivity is not an important characteristic of TIM. In fact, it is typically electrically non-conductive so that if you have a little spread out onto nearby circuits (say, the multiplier resistors on top of an Athlon) it won't short stuff out. TIM only has to conduct heat. It does it better than air (which is what would otherwise fill a void space), and that's about it. That's why you use as little as possible.
Honestly this is all a mountain out of a molehill. All someone had to do was post a picture of their own laptop and not use Apple's copyright restricted info and this wouldn't have even happened.
Take a look at the Apple specs for the size of an iPod Mini and then measure it yourself. I'm not sure where Apple gets their numbers from, then often have nothing to do with reality.
I will modify my statement in one way: The PB 12" is at least as small in every dimension. In at least one dimension (I forget which), it was so near to the same size that I couldn't tell the difference.
The people who came up with the biohazard symbol also tackled similar problems. How to convey danger properly without words. I think they did a pretty good job. Any human or near-human being will see the pointy biohazard symbol as indicating danger, unlike the classic radioactivity symbol.
I was young too. But I do remember the movie well. And it wasn't there.
But these were older days for movies. Movies started on the coasts and worked their way across the country. It had been out for weeks before it came to Flint, Michigan. So it is possible it had been in early cuts and excised.
But given the clip on youtube is incomplete. Given the unliklihood of an R version of a movie so obviously meant to appeal to young adults (on the "R" cut theory). And given how poor an intro to the movie this scene is. I'd guess it wasn't shown on there in the theatrical release.
The acting sure sucks, I mean even in comparison to the regular acting in Star Wars.
A French descendent was the only one with the balls to stand up? There's a big line of people who would stand up and say that in that room. The only difficulty was GETTING IN THAT ROOM. And that gate was controlled by Tom Curley (head of the AP) and the Bush administration.
Give me a fucking break.
And if France is so goddamn great, what's Colbert doing here?
I respect Colbert, but using him and what he did as a prop for all French is ridiculous.
And btw, my last name is French too! I guess that makes me a French descendent.
Slashdot Mirror
Again, we don't have pipelines from California to the rest of the country for gasoline anyway. There is a pipeline that runs from Arizona to Texas (that direction), but it never reaches California.
So again, it just isn't an issue for us here in California. We will have to truck it, or tanker it, but we already do so with gas, so it probably won't be a big cost adder for us.
Because that is how probation works.
But the problem is that his DNA will be stored forever. If he gives up his DNA to end his probation, they should dispose of their sample and delete any data related to it when his probation ends.
But the problme is, they won't.
So I do see a gray area here, where there wouldn't be on in a similar situation involving tracking anklets or something.
Not just on 360, but on PCs too!
I can see why it is M$ wet dream, but I don't like it.
Sony lets developers run their own service, so you can play against people on the PC without having to pay anyone to do it. That sounds a lot better to me.
As to your link, I don't see the content developers suddently deciding that they should give a fair deal.
CDs are cheaper than cassettes to produce. Which costs more to buy with songs on it?
"As a result, ethanol is often manufactured close to the point of use or shipped by rail, increasing the cost of its use."
Again, in my state, it's not much of an issue. I know it is for the rest of you. We just don't have as many pipelines as the rest of you.
I can't imagine it would cost much to put a mixing system in. I mean, concrete has to be mixed all the way to delivery and it it's not very expensive at all. So it's an obstacle, but not a big one, at least financially. Logistically, it's probably a bit bigger problem.
It's trucked a lot. In my state (California) it's almost exclusively trucked. The pipelines coming from the rest of the country don't reach here.
Anyway, as the other poster mentioned, a little water is okay. And besides, what you call "sweat" is condensation. Water doesn't spontaneously appear in the pipelines. So any sweat on the inside of the pipe is merely the water that was already there in another form.
So keep the water out of the pipeline, and you won't have problems, sweating or no.
First of all, because if unburned gasoline evaporates to the air, it's pollution.
So you can strike that off the list.
I honestly see Wii smoking the other two, based upon price mostly.
Especially when parents are spending the dough.
I have a 360 already but the games suck.
From the worldwide release and Nov 17 launch date, and $500 price, I won't be getting a PS3 this year.
So I expect I'll be playing Wii on Nov 17.
Rumble is moderately interesting. But it's not worth paying those fucks at Immersion for it. It never added much to a game anyway.
So I say if it would have added to the cost of the unit, I for one won't miss it.
It's no problem to transfer heat to the PCB. PCBs are rated to very high temps. You cannot burn a PCB with heat sink goop. It simply cannot get hot enough. The chip would unsolder itself first.
Besides, on most chips (not CPUs, they produce too much heat energy), the PCB is the primary heatsink anyway. The heat goes from the die to the pins and the pins to the ground plane in the PCB and spreads out across the ground plane, away from the chip.
To think your PCB is at all thermally separated from your chips is incorrect. How could it with all that metal (solder, pins, contacts) connecting them together?
If these people have burnt and bubbled PCBs, they have other problems that reapplying TIM won't fix.
I said it was the beginning of the end.
Tomb Raider with the Mystique was the first broad-market game with 3D acceleration.
Yes, I agree 3dfx made a much larger impact in the long run, parly because their output was so much better. But Tomb Raider was available before GLQuake, and I believe Tomb Raider was a lot more popular too.
Where did you see it referred to as Apple iTMS?
It's iTunes Music Store, not Apple iTunes Music Store.
And the reason for this must be pretty obvious.
Yeah, I could figure Apple Corps could start their own music service, called Apple iDMS. Steve Jobs is such a Beatles' fan (even after all this), Apple Computer would never sue Apple Corps.
As to a lack of "Fair Play". I just don't see it that way. Apple Computer and Apple Corps settled this issue TWICE over the past twenty years (with payments and agreements). Apple Corps for some reason then decided they didn't need to stick to the terms of the settlement.
In the end, if you feel being there first and occupying a small corner of the music marketplace means you get to be the only one who gets to use the name of a popular fruit, then yes, there was some massive railroading going on here. Apple Computer ran over Apple Corps repeatedly and like a freight train.
But I just don't see it that way.
What's the backplane speed you refer to?
This say the GIO64 backplane speed in Indigo2 was 266MB/sec.
This was probably great then, given the limitations of FPM RAM (EDO wasn't even around yet!), but it is peanuts now. Intel's FSBs and AMDs HTs hover at about 30 times this speed now, and there are plenty of slots which exceed this speed too.
Am I missing something? I only looked this up because the amount of time SGI has been out of the loop pretty much means that their systems cannot be anything special compared to current hardware. That doesn't mean they weren't ahead of their time, just that a lot of time has passed and even things that were ahead of their time then are nothing special now.
I had a couple friends who work at SGI and I was heavy into the computer graphics market then. SGI were doomed before they bought Cray. They basically started by taking the work of Evans & Sutherland and bring it to a whole new marketplace. They realized the potential of computer graphics in a broader market, not just defense and similar companies. The problem was, the market was even broader than SGI expected.
Oddly, it was the horrible Matrox Mystique video card that signalled the end for SGI. It wasn't the first 3D PC card, but for many people, it was the first one they owned and used. It ran Tomb Raider with 3d acceleration. These kinds of cards created a whole new market for 3D hardware. This board marketbase pumped money into these companies (Matrox, ATI, S3, and soon after, NVidia) very quickly. And this allowed them to advance their hardware rapidly to the point where a well-equipped PC could match the 3D performance of an SGI box.
SGI was addicted to selling $80K workstations in small numbers, and PCs running 3D Studio Max that could be configured for a bit over $10K just overran them. SGI refused to adapt. Because of their overhead, perhaps it was impossible for SGI to adapt. So SGI was in a marketplace where a 3D workstation could only fetch $10K (and falling), with a business model and overhead (like owning your own CPU designer, writing your own OS) that made it impossible for them to compete.
End of SGI.
I don't understand your assertion that SGI was an internet player. The cost of their systems meant you couldn't afford to buy an SGI for anything that didn't involve heavy graphics, or else you'd be wasting your money. SUN really did rule the roost there, for a while. Until a broad switch to PCs whomped them too.
I remember the space helment stereos. Those and computer perfection games:p ace_age_transistor_game.htm
http://www.designandfun.com/computer_perfection_s
Were used as props in 70s Sci-Fi shows all over the place.
Those trailers are encoded in H.264 (MPEG4 AVC).
I would think you could do okay at 1G/hour in H.264. I would think 2G/hour in H.264 would look nearly identical to the MPEG-2 8G/hour source materials.
That having been said, the poster sets the bar absurdly low. "Better than DVD"? DVD looks like poop. I'm not going to buy a movie in a format that looks only as good as DVD.
In the end, I can play a DVD as long as I want and take it to other places. These downloads will be DRMed to high heaven, locked to a given machine. I'm not real interested in that.
You didn't design the system. You don't know the target temperature.
That's like saying if the furnace in my house runs more, it's a good thing. That's only the case if it is doing so for a good reason. If it's doing so because there's something wrong with the feedback loop, then it isn't a good thing. If it's doing so to keep the CPU down at 50C, it isn't a good thing. There is no evidence that silicon chips last longer if they are kept cooler. As long as they stay below the rated temps, the system is in great shape. Any additional active cooling just wastes energy.
It'd be one thing if someone out there had K-probes on every chip and the fans (for speed/duty cycle) and knew how the system works and made a change and showed it it made the system work better. Instead, there's people putting together a bunch of poor info into an even worse conclusions.
Reading the original thread provides some clues.
First of all, in the original thread, the person who first did this has "proof" where he measures the temperature of the case with an IR thermometer and it is a few degrees (C) cooler. Although you cannot measure the temperature of a metal surface (the case) with an IR thermometer. IR thermometers actually measure the wavelength of photons coming from the direction they are pointed. Shiny surfaces (metals) reflect photons and so you are measuring the temperature of whatever is reflected in the surface, not the metal surface itself.
Second, the person also says that after doing the "fix", the fan comes on more often. Of course if the fan comes on more often the unit will be cooler, because more heat is coming out as hot air. The question is why does the fan come on more often? Is that a good thing?
See, the basic problem is Apple has designed the MacBook Pro to run as a closed-loop thermostatic system. It has a target temp it is supposed to keep itself at. Presumably the chips and the case both have their own maximum temps. If you want to change the temperature of the system, you have to either alter the temperature of the sensors or change the target temp.
Perhaps these laptops are getting hotter than people like. But are they getting hotter than the target temp? It seems to me that likely people just don't like Apple's max target temp decision, which was selected to minimize running the fan, since running the fan takes power and makes noise.
In the face of this, perhaps Apple should lower the target temp, by altering the control software. Which they can do, they have done it before, the PB G4 12" I am on right now is notable for this. In some OS update they decided to run the fan more often to keep it cooler. But to have people open up units and change things that don't even necessarily alter the feedback loop is probably not something Apple wants.
Actually, all of that is off the point anyway. Remember how copyright works. It doesn't work like patents, if you do not enfore your copyright you lose it. Apple must send something awful a C&D notice, regardless of how their copyright is being infringed and whether the effects are positive or negative.
Yes, having too much heat sink goop between in the thermal interface is bad. Yes, you need to have a very small amount in that area.
But there is nothing wrong with putting more on as long as you apply sufficient pressure to squeeze the extra out. And that is what Apple's picture shows. A thin film in the thermal interface area and big globs around the interface area.
The film on the interface area is slightly thick, but it's not so thick that it would cause significant problems. It's not any thicker than the film that I saw on my NVidia 6800 Ultra or 7800GT when I removed the heatsinks to replace them with other cooling solutions.
And as to the lawyers thing, Apple just said to remove the link. It is illegal in this country to link to copyrighted material, not just to host it. Otherwise, bittorrent trackers would be legal, right?
This story is way out of control lately. I'm glad people are getting the message that putting a lot of TIM (thermal interface material, also known as heat sink goop) on is unnecessary. Maybe next time around they could actually learn enough about cooling to know what to look for in a picture of others' work.
Additionally, note that electrical conductivity is not an important characteristic of TIM. In fact, it is typically electrically non-conductive so that if you have a little spread out onto nearby circuits (say, the multiplier resistors on top of an Athlon) it won't short stuff out. TIM only has to conduct heat. It does it better than air (which is what would otherwise fill a void space), and that's about it. That's why you use as little as possible.
Honestly this is all a mountain out of a molehill. All someone had to do was post a picture of their own laptop and not use Apple's copyright restricted info and this wouldn't have even happened.
You: going by some numbers Apple put out.
Me: held them both in my hands at the same time.
Take a look at the Apple specs for the size of an iPod Mini and then measure it yourself. I'm not sure where Apple gets their numbers from, then often have nothing to do with reality.
I will modify my statement in one way: The PB 12" is at least as small in every dimension. In at least one dimension (I forget which), it was so near to the same size that I couldn't tell the difference.
Steve Jobs said it when he announced the PB G4 12", and a friend who happened to have both showed them to me.
It's true. It's smaller in every dimension.
So get yourself a PB 12" and you've got the Duo 230 beat.
I know it's supposed to be since it is Mach and all, but Mach hasn't been a microkernel in a long time.
The filesystem is in the kernel.
Networking? In the kernel.
Address space management? In the kernel.
The pager isn't in the kernel though I don't think.
Drivers aren't compiled as a unit with the kernel, but are dynamically loaded at boot into the kernel context.
Basically, the NeXT/Apple guys migrated from a microkernel to a regular kernel because of performance and general feature bloat.
I have a couple red shirts. Maybe I like to dress like Tiger Woods or something.
Anyway, if I wear one to Target, I often get questions from customers, sometimes even if I'm wearing jeans.
The people who came up with the biohazard symbol also tackled similar problems. How to convey danger properly without words. I think they did a pretty good job. Any human or near-human being will see the pointy biohazard symbol as indicating danger, unlike the classic radioactivity symbol.
I was young too. But I do remember the movie well. And it wasn't there.
But these were older days for movies. Movies started on the coasts and worked their way across the country. It had been out for weeks before it came to Flint, Michigan. So it is possible it had been in early cuts and excised.
But given the clip on youtube is incomplete. Given the unliklihood of an R version of a movie so obviously meant to appeal to young adults (on the "R" cut theory). And given how poor an intro to the movie this scene is. I'd guess it wasn't shown on there in the theatrical release.
The acting sure sucks, I mean even in comparison to the regular acting in Star Wars.
A French descendent was the only one with the balls to stand up? There's a big line of people who would stand up and say that in that room. The only difficulty was GETTING IN THAT ROOM. And that gate was controlled by Tom Curley (head of the AP) and the Bush administration.
Give me a fucking break.
And if France is so goddamn great, what's Colbert doing here?
I respect Colbert, but using him and what he did as a prop for all French is ridiculous.
And btw, my last name is French too! I guess that makes me a French descendent.