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PS3 Launch Details Announced
Sony's conference offered up reassurance that a number of their titles will be playable at this year's E3. The controller will sense movement, allowing the player to move an onscreen avatar 'naturally'. They also released the system's launch details. The North American PS3 launch will occur on Nov. 17th, 2006. The 20GB HDD version will retail for $499, and the 60GB HDD version will go for $599. They promise 4 million launch units by December 31st. Update: 05/09 03:57 GMT by Z : Apparently, not only does the $499 system have a smaller harddrive, but it has fewer features as well.
My two cents:
1.) I'm honestly surprised they're this far along with these titles. They may actually make the November launch.
2.) Even through an internet feed, it was obvious the only truly next-gen title there was Heavenly Sword (from the great folks at Ninja Theory). The EyeToy stuff looked cool, but isn't something I'm likely to try out any time soon. Most of the games could have been 360 or even late-lifetime Xbox titles.
3.) I won't be able to review games for this system at the launch price. There's no way I'm dropping $599 for a game console.
4.) The controller orientation thing is ... I don't have the words. Awkward? Cash-in? Cynical? Whatever their intent, it just seems like a bad idea.
My favorite part was when the Sony rep got up on stage and said that Sony isn't interested in Gimmicks.
And then he demoed a card game that you play with a camera.
And then he demoed a karaoke game.
And then they came out and showed that their fancy new controller is going to be based around the same Goddamn "gimmick" Nintendo came up with last fall.
Just... hilarious. Do these people even think about the things they're saying? There was some absolutely fricking awesome stuff in that press conference, Sony Computer Entertainment would be such a great company if they could just somehow get their executives to stop talking in public.
for it to drop to 299. No way I pay 500 or 600 for this type of device. Especially when games are 60 each.
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
Jesus tap dancing christ, that thing is expensive. Looks like I'll be waiting at least a year or two to grab it.
Step 1: Copy Wii's motion tracking and put it in a clunky two-handed dual shock interface Step 2: Sell PS3 with 1080i support, bunch of other features for $500-600 Step 3: Sell new Sony HDTV's with 1080i to allow games to be seen in full definition Step 4: ??? Step 5: Profit!
I'm sure you mean 60 GB model.
what happened to the boomerang? oh yeah nintendo came out with a real next gen controller and sony copied it. I think this is a good example of why companies like nintendo and apple are so careful about trade secrets. If the ps3 launched with what it had before nintento shoed the wii controller, it would still be a boomerang.
Yikes! $600 console. RIP sony, even FFXIII won`t get me to dish out that much. I feel sorry for people who live in places like the UK. The usual mark up must be even worse over there.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
Wow, Sony as ever shows their originality. I mean, a motion-sensing controller? Who in the hell would have thought of that brilliant idea? Wasn't this one of the same companies who wrote off Nintendo's idea as a gimmick? Wow, ironic the innovation that Sony comes up with. Let's hope for their sake that they didn't take too much away from Nintendo's idea... last thing they need is another company suing them over technology theft in their controllers. BTW, I wonder if Immersion could claim this Dual Shock like controller in violation of their patent too.
As much as the patent system needs to go, companies like Sony almost make you want to have it.
Sony, say hello to third place. Consumers, say hello to an emergency price drop scheduled for Spring 2007.
For those with 360s - and without trying to incite a flamewar - I'm curious how some of the PS3 features (esp graphical ability) compare?
My other sig is a
until Microsoft drops the price of the 360 models by $100 right before the launch.
Um, what's the point with the 20GB hard drive model. Aren't blue-ray disks supposed to start at 25GB, and feasably scale all the way up to 100GB each? I mean, it'd be like putting a 500MB hard drive in a computer with a CD burner.
Ripping off live was bad enough, but ripping off the tilt and motion sensing capabilities? AFTER calling it a gimmick. Comeon. I hope Nintendo and Microsoft have enough patents to bury Sony, because they really, freakin' deserve it. Failing that I hope people are smart enough to go with the leaders and not the followers, but I have little to no faith in that.
At the $500 launch price I thought it was going to be at, it was dead to me anyway, but now I wouldn't take it was half that. I prefer to vote with my dollars in a way that encourages innovation, not me-too copycatting.
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
That was the most pathetic E3 conference I have seen. I felt embarrassed for them when they announced the controller and they kept smiling and saying it was their "innovation." Then the nerdy guy got up and demoed it and it looked like it didn't work very well. He could barely land the stupid plane.
The games they showed real footage of didn't look any better than the 360 titles that are already out.
Really sad. This press conference removed most of my desire for a PS3. If you didn't watch it, go grab a copy from somewhere.
At that expensive of a price do they really think the PS3 will become as popular as the PS2 is now? While I understand that most of the early adopters will pay just about anything they'd better be able to drop the price pretty quickly after that.
That said this will probably mean there won't be PS3 shortages this Christmas like there was last year with the Xbox 360.
I know there's a lot over the web now, but here's one running commentary of the event that I enjoyed.
I can't believe Sony had the cheek to say their new controller is innovative! Ignoring the obvious comparisons with the wii controller, Microsoft released a sidewinder control pad for the PC years ago which had this functionality! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004Z729/103-96 55422-5521442?v=glance&n=172282
Did you get that thing I sent ya?
My first comment is the price. What else can I comment on? $500 FOR THE BASE SYSTEM? You've got to be kidding me! The next step up is $600. And considering you'll probably need a HDTV to get the most out of the system... that is a TON of money.
They got the hard drive right though. MS got that right last time with it built in on the XBox but for some stupid reason they screwed that up with the 360. Now Sony has it right and MS has it backwards.
The games look nice, but nothing revolutionary. The list of titles is all Something 3 and Whatever 4. There wasn't too much new there. Even the new titles were the same old genres.
They "stole" the Wii-mote's features, or at least some of them. It doesn't have the light-gun like positioning. I wonder if they've had this all along or if they did it because of Nintendo. I suspect it was because of Nintendo because I think otherwise we would have heard something about it before, or at least hints. Almost all the demos they showed were the same old control style. I think they just aren't committed to this. And they said they were going to "redesign" the controller from the ugly boomerang thing. They didn't redesign it, they used the PS2 controller with some extra stuff packed in. It looks EXACTLY THE SAME. Don't get me wrong, the PS2 controller was good, but come on. I'm also skeptical about the "it weighs less" part.
I was going to buy a 360 but then they cost too much ($400 for the non-crippled version). Now I'll wait until the redesign. I was going to buy a PS3 but now I'll wait ($500 for the base?). Nintendo has guaranteed that they will launch under $300, with speculation in the $200-$250 range. Nintendo will be able to clean MS and Sony's clocks based on price alone. Not even taking into account all the other great stuff (downloadable library, Wii-mote, great games, etc).
I can't wait for Nintendo's press conference tomorrow.
For the first time since the SNES generation, I won't be buying most of the consoles at launch. I waited a few months on the XBox was I was thrilled to get my PS2. The 360 doesn't excite me that much (mostly a games problem, I'm waiting to see what they show tomorrow). The PS3 doesn't excite me that much (mostly a games problem, we'll see). The Wii has me dreaming. I'll buy 'em all, I'm sure. But you won't see me spend over $300 on the console unless it includes games bundled in.
PS: The Wii is supposed to have a little speaker and some memory in the controller. So when you shoot it like a gun, it makes a gun sound (instead of it coming out of the TV). What a great idea! Your tennis racket makes the sound where your racket is (instead of speakers), your gun too, and anything else. Pure genius.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
That site has some of the most unreadable text i have ever seen...
joel: Kaz Hirai is on the stage.
joel: "Technology is just an enabler." "You'll pay tons of money for this device." (Okay, I made up the last one.)
joel: It's really lots of fluff so far, complaining about how much work it was to develop the PS3.
joel: Now he's just yapping about the PS2. 100 million units sold in the half the time of PS1.
joel: Now talking about PSP titles scheduled for release.
joel: Tons of really busy video, including Loco Roco! Huzzah.
joel: Ape Acadamy 2 - an Ape Escape title.
joel: Planet PSP (Working title)
joel: Looks like some sort of online matchup XBox live-esque service for PSP.
joel: B-Boy, a dancing game.
joel: Syphone Filter - Dark Mirror
joel: Talk Man, a game for douchebags in suits.
joel: Gangs of London, a game for smashing people with pipes.
joel: Killzone: Liberation
joel: Now, greatest hits PSP titles.
joel: Ape Ecape on the loose, atv offroad fury, hot shots gold gpen tee, twisted metal head on and wipeout pure
joel: 250k units and 9months witll get to the Greatest HIts
joel: (Yes, we're doing this live. Refresh your browser for the latest updates.)
joel: (Thanks, Tom and Ryan!)
joel: FIrmware upgrades (garrrr), talking about all the new stuff they've added via the updates.
joel: Talking about all the new stuff that showed up at GDC (camera, GPS)
joel: "Please stick around an denjoy."
joel: Now new yorkers are talking about something re: playstation.
joel: It's like they're trying to convince us that Playstation brand should be close to our heart.
joel: Now, London!
joel: Now, Syney! Blu-ray discs, says a friendly aussie.
joel: Capetown, where all colors love Playstation.
joel: Tokyo, where they DON"T SPEAK ANY ENGLISH!!?!?
joel: (But they love playstation)
joel: Mexico City, home of GRAW
joel: DId you know the whole world loves PS3?
joel: You do now!
joel: Now Kaz is jerking it about the "Key features and benefits of the PS3"
joel: "Supercomputers." Check. "Blu-ray." Check. "Pre-installed HDD." BUH!!?
joel: Built-in Wi-Fi (I think they may have said that before, but huzzah.)
joel: Gigabit ethernet for the BITS.
joel: They need to load the Kaz bot with new propaganda.
joel: "80% of all hollywood content support blu-ray."
joel: Still talking a lot about 1080p, but no word if it's rendering at 1080p natively. (I doubt it.)
joel: They're really talking up a lot of smack about the benefit of HD, but will the PS3 be higher rez than the 360?
joel: (5:15PST)
joel: Worldwide launch in November 2006 (Japan, North America, Europe, Australia)
joel: Clear black color at launch.
joel: (Still looked like the george foreman grill.)
joel: Some games at E3 running on final machine.
joel: (Playables, hopefully?)
joel: Huzzah, yes, playable games at Sony booth!
joel: SCE Worldwide Prez Phil Harrison comes on, looking as death campy as usual
joel: (Eat up, son!)
joel: He's going to share some fruits with us
joel: fruits of LABOR
joel: Or, probably, "labour."
joel: Someone is coming up
joel: jaffe?
joel: Oh, no Gran Turismo reator kazunoir yamauchi is coming on stage
joel: He brought first GT prototype in HD
joel: "Gran Turismo HD" at 1080p
joel: Assets from Gt4 at HD quality
joel: (I'm going to describe all the looks frame by frame, 60fps.) Ready?
joel: A title!
joel: (Nevermind, I'm tired.)
joel: He's holding a different controller
joel: Menus optimzed for HD, he says. Music optomized for lite jazz lovers, still.
joel: Motorbikes? Was that in Gt4?
joel: Here it goes... tokyo track.
joel: It looks... nice.
joel: Not great.
joel: It looks like Gt4 in HD, which is not a bad thing, but not stunning, either.
joel: (Just notice the picture stepping on the text. SOrry abou tthat.)
joel: The demos better get better looking than this.
joel: The way they are talking - and i may be wrong - it sure sounds like they are rendering nat
Yup, sorry... but the price difference is still ridiculous. Especially considering 40GB is the ONLY difference.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
Are you kidding?! This is a revolution in gamepads!
The controller basically has a gyroscope inside that can detect tilt... and an accelerometer that can detect movement in a particular direction.
This is different from the Wii in that it can't determine its location in 3d space. While the functionality is similar, the Wii still has the upper hand in terms of the "unique" functionality of the controller.
It's a smart move on Sony's part, but the Wii will still be able to do things no other system can.
I wonder how many people get the cheaper model and add their own Hard Drive?
I guess I'll be getting a Wii for the kid and myself to play after all. I am a gamer and all, but I have a family too. My wife will kick my balls in if I spend $600 on a friggen video game. I'll have to either get a Wii or wait until the PS3 forces the price of the 360 down in November.
Gee, which motion-sensitive controller system do I pick? The $199 Wii or the $499/$599 PS3? What a tough decision. Especially when you consider that a) the PS3 has been repeatedly reported, by developers, no less, as being way under-powered, whereas many devs have expressed enthusiasm for making games for the Wii, b) the Revolution's game lineup is, IMO, looking much better than the PS3's, and c) we've yet to hear the last about cool stuff in the Wii (that announcement should be pretty interesting) Let us further consider that for the price of a PS3, I can easily build myself a computer with many times the hard drive space, reasonable comparability hardware-wise (assuming we don't buy into Sony's hype), and the ability to do everything a computer can do that a PS3 can't (i.e. everything but play games and DVDs). Oh, did I mention I can upgrade the PC if I want to? Also that my PC has a much wider range of games than the PS3? Yeah...
Sony actually did Nintendo a big favor by introducing a (somewhat) similar control style: the extreme difficulty in porting games to the Wii will now be somewhat alleviated. Just one less excuse for the 3rd parties.
The Guide is definitive. Reality is frequently inaccurate.
Well as a student who's been hanging out for a new console for around a year now I've now seen (almost) clearly what my options are. 1) An expensive and shitty console by ms that is designed to take advantage of my 100" plasma and 2) An expensive and shiny console by sony that is designed to take advantage of my 100" plasma...Oh wait...I'm a poor uni student who can't afford anything more than a 51cm tv and nothing like either of these consoles plus games. All I want to do is play well thought out games that play smoothly and are playable for hours.
Guess it's all up to you now nintendo; provide me with a reasonably priced funbox before the end of the year before I loose faith in the games industry!
I ate your fish.
Don't get too excited about it. It's only a gyroscope. It can only track inclinations, not positions like Wii should.
$499 - $599 vs. Revmote-style control It's like these guys can't decide whether they want to win or lose. not to mention the revmote's amazing new control abilities vs. being called 'Wii' etc.
Well, the Live "rip-off" isn't really much of a rip-off anymore, since Xbox has had it for four years already. At this point if you DON'T have a Live-like service with your console, you're not gonna sell. (Even Nintendo's going that route with the -nameless system-.)
$500 ($550 CDN for me) IS a harsh sting... but compared to the $400 (non-crippled model) Xbox 360, it DOES have a Blu-ray drive, which is a nice bonus. (I may not have an HD set right now, but I will get one eventually.)
But still, I wanna see what Nintendo's gonna offer-up tomorrow.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
If I was Nintendo right now I'd be flipping out.
"That's all they've got? HA!"
You know, I've never owned a PS so I wasn't excited at all about this conference. However, I would have expected a bit more excitement and energy coming from the audience. Where was the roar of the crowd when super-popular games like MSG and FF came on the screen? I expected pandemonium when the controller was revealed, but all I could hear was the deafening silence of an audience completely under-whelmed by the big revelation.
O to be Nintendo at this moment.
wow, the analog stick, the rumble pack, the wii-mote functionality, ALL SONY'S IDEA'S!!!111!!!!one-hundred-eleven!!!!111!1!
seriously, the industry has been copying nintendo for the past 20 years... wow
People who have no sig are cool
I don't understand how companies think parents will keep shelling out more and more for these systems. Also, You're going to be spending half of a good computer for just PS stuff. I know hardware costs alot, but sheesh, that is alot of moolah.
errr, by downloading I mean't "going to a yardsale" and by rom pack I meant "box filled with cartridges."
(you never know when the copyright nazis are snooping)
perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits
Sony copied Nintendo's motion sensing controller. They also reverted back to a cosmetic copy of the PS2's Dualshock 2 controller. I guess they know how to listen to focus groups.
Also the hard drive is officially standard equipment. None of this "core package" bullshit. That bodes extremely well for downloadable content. I predict inexpensive downloadable games will quickly outnumber the $60 bluray discs and become the preferred format by the end of the cycle. Games will come in smaller, more frequent installments and graduate to bluray discs in the form of deluxe collections.
Another note, downloadable Playstation games for the PSP were officially confirmed.
Ballsy moves from Sony. Ballsy. Although I still think the Cell processor is a piece of shit for game development. Unfortunately game developers will be subjected to another era of using a fork to eat soup.
"Revolution" being the keyword.
I imagine this controller was slapped together in about 3 months, seeing as there were no actual games that supported it, aside from a demo that they openly admitted they modified in the three weeks since they got the new controller.
Not unexpected at all, but still quite shameless.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
It might be because I missed the start of the presentation, but I don't understand why they were demonstrating Xbox live, xbox360 games and the Wii controller?
Yeah, hey. Software patents are okay when they're used against people we don't like, right?
Oh, come on, guys. You're all missing the amazing way that the PS3 will interact with the game community--BY SQUEEZING OUT THEIR EVERY PENNY. Notice how long the karaoke-game presentation went on about things you can pay to download? "Now, for a fee, you can download levels, weapons and songs!" Kill me. The last thing the gaming world needs is a company encouraging developers to ship incomplete products so that people will rush onto the Sony service and buy useless, overpriced add-on content. That shop idea might've been interesting if Sony had promoted buying, oh, I dunno, GAMES on it.....but as it stands, it's just a money-grubbing version of XBox Live without any of the interesting Arcade games that make the M$ service relatively worthwhile.
Otherwise, ditto on what most everyone else is saying. The games that were presented looked utterly boring. A couple of hack-n-slashers, a camera-dependent card game... are you kidding? Cute as a tech demo, I suppose, but I think we're way past the tech demo stage in May 2006. Watch the Sony vs. M$ debate take its sharpest, quickest turn ever in the next few hours.
Am I the only one who views these consoles as subsidized computers? For the first time we have consoles which can output to standard displays (vga-15 for xbox 360 and DVI for PS3).
:P
I was going to go for a cheap xbox 360, but microsoft had to add loads of security crap. The PS3 has an interesting processor to boot. I just wish it had more RAM and no expensive blu-ray
As for the lessons of last generation, I think microsoft learned a lot, but sony learned squat.
I haven't seen any footage of the press conference, and got my real time updates by reading comments to Gamespots feed, but from what I can tell the PS3 controler will only be able to detect tilting. This might be fine for looking around in a FPS game but no good for a Duck Hunt/FPS hybrid, where you aim the controler like a gun. It might open up the possibility for more cross platform releases between the PS3 and the Wii though.
That price mans the 60GB version will be about NZ $1000 compared to the XBox 360's NZ$720. It will be interesting to see if the PS3 will catch on in Japan where the 360 is dead in the water, if it doesn't do too well the Wii could well dominate, despite its radical controller.
Has there been any more news on the whole linux proposition? It's pretty much the only thing that the ps3 still has going for it IMO, but then it will probably be horrible and crippled and I will not buy any game console again for at least a few years.
This would be a case of hardware patenting (although there's probably a software system to interpret it as well). As far as I'm aware, slashdot has no issue with patenting engineering innovations in hardware--just software algorithms and such. But then, I could be wrong.
Coming out with another year's worth of development time, and the cheap version is still $100 more than MicroSoft's expensive model. That should tell you that it probably will pack the most graphical punch. I'm sorry, though, $499 is just too much. If MicroSoft announces a price cut for the holidays, say $350 or $329 or some such, or a bundle with HD-DVD playback still at $399, a lot of people will probably find the 360 "good enough." Hell, it's quite possible you will be able to get a 360 and a Wii-volution for the price of the PS3. I thought the 360 was going to be dead as soon as the PS3's launch info was announced. Now, I'm not so sure. Just flat out, $499 is out of the question for "working class" people, especially with rising gas prices etc. It's also out of the question for most kids and college students. It's going to be the new Neo-Geo: sure, everybody would *like* to have one, but they buy something they can afford instead. Hell, I make professional wages and have plenty of spending money, but the 360 was already more than I'm willing to spend for a console.
I predict:
1) The PS2 continues to outsell both the 360 and the PS3 through 2007.
2) The 360 outsells PS3 in the US during holiday 2006 season.
3) The PS3 outsells the 360 in Japan during holiday 2006 season. Duh.
4) The DS Lite continues to be the top seller overall.
5) The tilt-sensing abilities of the PS3 controller will be seriously under-utilized, especially in first-gen software as developers scramble to handle HD and online capabilities.
I won't make any Wii-volution predictions until the details come out tomorrow. However, while the PS3's controller might make things interesting for hard-core gamers, it will utterly fail to attract non-gamers, which is really the point of the Wii-mote. One final prediction, though:
6) Nintendo continues to make gobs and gobs of profits, while MS and Sony continue to lose money hand-over-fist.
It's not the same. I own four Japanese super nintendos, some of which have custom paintwork now. I also have a large collection of titles, which cost from $1 - $20 at most. If I want to play something that's emulator only ( like the english translations of Secret of Mana ) I own a flash card.
Nothing compares to playing on an actual console. I look forward, eagerly, to the arrival of N's virtual console feature on the Wii.
PS3 controllers are gyroscopic! Note that this is similar to, but not identical to the Nintendo control system. Nintendo controllers are gyroscopic, but they also have accelorometers, and a complete 3-d positioning system. You can control a plane with the PS3 controller, but it would be difficult or impossible to swing a sword or lob with a tennis racket, like the Nintendo controller is capable of. But Playstation is doing what it does best, coopting parts of the Nintendo controller (the only truly great thing they have offered for controller evolution is dual analog controls)
The pricing! It could work, as long as consumers realize they are getting a Next-Gen DVD player out of the deal. Figure that a Blue-Ray player or HD-DVD player will retail for $300 or more when the PS3 ships. That means for just $200 (or $300) more you get a next-gen console machine that is as fast or faster than the XBox 360. A $200 savings! The risk, of course, is that noone will care that it plays Blue-Ray, Microsoft will drop the 360 price by $50 when it comes out, and the Nintendo system will have been out for a month selling for only $250. That is tough competition.
Meh!
Well, okay, mostly meh. Lots of promo vids were shown, but you can never trust those. There was a very uninsipiring Gran Turismo HD, lots of "Wow, this is 1080p!" It's fine, but ya know, these resolutions have been running on computers for a long time now, and it isn't that much of a wow factor. What was most impressive was the upgrade in lighting and fluid animation on a few titles. Heavenly Sword looked, well, heavenly. and EA had an impressive line up of sports animation, culminating an an eerily realistic Tiger Woods mug shot. If EA can really put this kind of personality into their sports titles, I could be hooked. But realistically, it seems like this stuff could be showing up on the 360 with little problem. Perhaps the Wii could achieve this too, you know, if it wishes really hard upon its cute little heart.
So the E3 PS3 keynote was a solid performance from Sony, but of course there are still 2 more keynotes to come. PS3 dominance is by no means a sure thing.
Lets see.... You can ask that cute girl out now or you can wait until her boobs are down by her knees and her teeth have fallen out. I think I would rather have the newer version :)
Waiting a year or so for tech prices to come down is something that I usually do but no way am I going to wait a decade.
Comeon everyone, get your priorities right! If this thing works, OpenGl and the community will rule!
It didn't take long for this pic to surface: http://hood.filefu.com/sonysteals5dq.jpg
Isn't it supposed to run Linux natively?
"We kept is a secret for a long time" Sure you did Sony boy.
I'll be buying Nintendo right on launch and the other two I'll buy when they meet the following: it falls beneath $200 and it has a game I consider "must have" that isn't available on PC/Nintendo, or even cheaper with a bunch of decent games.
If I wanted to spend $500+ on a gaming system, I'd spend it on upgrades for my computer.
...like anyone actually cares. I'm waiting for the Infinium Labs Phantom. They've got the better deal from what I hear. And an awesome KB/mousing device as well. Once Infinium comes out with their Phantom all other gaming systems will be like the NES16.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
They've screwed it up so bad that Sony has insured that I'll actually have time to play my 360 on Nov 11th.
:)
Oh, and hopefully a Wii too
There is nothing inherently safe about liberty. That's why so many people died protecting it.
Whoa! That is one expensive rootkit! Seriously, I might have to go with the lay-a-way plan if I hope to buy this console anytime soon. The Wii--despite the weak name--might be first on my list and the PS3 later on when it comes down in price.
$550 CDN? I bet it's going to be more like $599 CDN for the 20GB model and $699 for the 60GB model.
Sony needs to be plowed under anyway, since they felt it appropriate to stick a root-kit on people's machines.
If people voted with their pocketbooks and didn't say, "please Sony, beat me a little more," then we wouldn't have these sorts of problems.
They need to either lower the price of the prenium system to 300$ or bundle Gears of Wars (supposing it's a true killer app) with the console when the title comes out. That would hurt Sony like hell. Anyway, counter the PS3 launch maybe a month or two before it comes out with that. Japan will still buy PS3s like crazy, but the rest of the world will be buying 360s.
I'm surprised that Microsoft didn't try to convince Square to port FF13 to the 360, but then, Square are CG whores so I guess 9 gigs isn't enough for them.
The interresting thing tough is that this generation two of the three consoles will have inferior storage capacity. Since companies will probably want to make more and more crossplatform games to make sure they recoup their investment, I wonder if that won't render the Blu-Ray size advantage pretty much useles unless you are playig a Square game.
To recap: Some features of the Nintendo controller ripped off. Games that don't look any better than the XBOX360 versions. Price tag of $500+ just for the system.
I'd like to thank Sony for rinsing the taste of Wii out of our mouthes.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
The PSWii...
(From the Laws of Japanese Animation) Law of Inherent Combustibility -- Everything explodes. Everything.
they meant for the motion-sensing controller to appear goofy and awkward. What better way to undermine Nintendo? Maybe they're trying to prove to everyone that it's cool in theory, but just doesn't work in practice. Does anyone honestly think that developers will take advantage of that feature? There might be a couple of gimmicky games, but that's about it. At the same time they can strut out there and say, 'hey, we've got a motion sensing controller too'. Meanwhile, everyone can see it's a piece of junk, but at that point can fall back on the tried and true Dual Shock. In any case, it doesn't bode well for SONY. They are clearly worried about what Nintendo is up to.
They already showed the Canadian price, on-screen during the keynote, right next to the US price.
$499 USD / $549 CND
$599 USD / $659 CND
The exchange rate has gotten much higher lately.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
Not necessarily a good copy of the Wii
Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.
Good work covering your tracks.
Bullsh*t. Some of you people bitching about the price are the same who drop $500 every year for the next video card from ATI or Nvidia.
... my god. That was 4, 5 years ago? What a bargain.
$500 for this device is quite fair, considering what Sony's promising it will deliver.
I dropped $300 for my PS2 when it first came out, and it felt like a kick in the nuts, but
Yeah, hey. This would be a funny/insightful comment if we were talking about software patents, but you're apparently too much of an idiot to tell the difference between hardware and software.
This poo is cold.
Why does it always have to be 'ripping off?' Yes, it is one of those me-too things. However, IIRC Live made lots of money for Microsoft. It attracted users. Why would Sony NOT want an online service? It seems to me like integration of previous innovation. Sony saw it worked and decided to try it out. Would you really be happier if they DIDN'T integrate a Live-like service? That's just my opinion on situations like this. It isn't exactly referring to the S/MS/N situation. Feel free to elaborate on what I've said, I'm interested to see what you guys/girls think of my position.
Honesty may be the best policy, but by process of elimination, dishonesty is the second best policy.
there is still time to do it. Just provide a no harddrive version but allow the customer to add in their own harddrve later on and drop the PS3 down to $399 or about. Of course the most likely option will be Sony trying to prevent anyone from adding their own harddrives and instead sell expensive proprietary upgrade options; leaving one to get their PS3 modded in order to add their own harddrives (usually the massive storage drives). Sigh, one can only hope.
If this comes out at $599, I'm going to upgrade my graphics card and buy a Wii before I even think about a playstation 3. This is ridiculously expensive compared to anything I can readily think of, except maybe an iPod, and that's not exactly a favorable comparison.
Okay. The PS3 games look good (great, in fact). That was expected, but what else is there? With all the industry talk about game advanced physics and AI being the future, you would think that Sony would demo something that significantly showcases those aspects and set them apart from Microsoft's machine. Instead the only thing that sets them apart is the 1080 support, the PSP connectivity, and the motion sensing controller. Speaking of which...
Man! The 1UP folks called it when, mere days after Nintendo unveiled it's controller, they said that we would be seeing Sony's next controller. I didn't think they would try to copy it so soon. I wonder if Nintendo's going to have a "Ha! We told you!" moment in their presentation.
BTW. Did the presentation mention anything about backwards compatibility? I don't remember reading about it.
This Pic says that thee will be a chance for PC gaming with the PS3 Controller. I'll pe happily playing Quake 4 and UT2007 on my PC while the rest of you are out waging console wars or working your assess off for some $ to buy into one Big, Expensive, non-upgradable, doomed-to-fail rootkit.
For the Price of a PS3, I could get a Decent Graphics card and a RAM upgrade.
-jX
Don't you just love politics? It's like a comedy of errors.
Nothing compares to playing on an actual console.
Why? On an emulator you can use the same controller, but you can crank up the resolution and use anti-aliasing and filtering to make the games look better than they did when they were new, or pipe it to the TV if you want it like it was originally.
What do you gain from playing on an old piece of hardware?
I feel no sense of loss having waited until I could get one for $200 used. Also, the damned things are pieces of junk. Mine barely works any more and I took good care of it, and my roommate's is struggling a lot these days.
By reading this you acknowledge that you have read it.
158 Units to hardcore movie buffs who want a cheap blu-ray player
2.2 million Units to hardcore RPG fans
15.5 Million Japenese kids who would buy anything from a Japanese company to prove it is better than its American counterpart
100 Million units to spoiled rich American kids who are too fat to use Wii and need something to ask for at Christmas since they already have a 360
The winner and new cham-peen: Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!
Seriously. Both Microsoft and Sony have basically priced themselves out of the market. When a gaming-class PC costs less than a console, you know that you have an overpriced white elephant on your hands.
(I'm sorry, every time I think of that new name Nintendo came up with for Revolution I think of that meme video from a few years back, hence the title.)
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
"This is a revolution in gamepads!"
What will Sonii think of next?
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
I don't know if it's some grand scheme to drop the PS3 at the last moment to $350 or $400 just to trick people into buying it, but announcing it at $500 and $600 is insane. HD resolution is just NOT THAT WIDESPREAD yet. I predict utter failure, at least until the price drops some more. Maybe it will pick up then, if they ever survive long enough for a price drop.
Gigantically stupid move. The average gamer isn't going to be able to spend that much, plus another $60-70 per game, because you know they are going to try to up that a little too.
Look for the XBox 360 to pick up a little and for Nintendo to possibly make a comeback. Hell, I think Sega could jump back in the console wars at this point with Sony practically giving up.
It's got to be a joke.
-- Having a Creationist Museum is like having an Atheist place of worship
The overall conference was barely a passing grade, but Sony is the industry leader. All they had to do was put in a decent performance, and they did. The big number was 4 million units by December 31st worldwide. Are they lying? We'll see. If they can pull that off, it'll really put Microsoft to shame. Huge early numbers could give them the beachhead they need to quickly seal up the next gen war, at least from a numbers perspective. We'll know how realistic this is when we see if they're running things on actual PS3s or dev kits. So far Konami said they were running on a dev kit, so from dev kit to 4 million units in half a year would be quite a feat.
The new PS3 controller not only rips of features from Wii, they droped the rumble support, PS3 gets less and less impressive:
9 be.pdf
"Pursuant to the introduction of this new six-axis sensing system, the vibration feature that is currently available on DUALSHOCK® and DUALSHOCK®2 controllers for PlayStation and PlayStation®2, will be removed from the new PS3 controller as vibration itself interferes with information detected by the sensor."
See: http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/06050
here's engadget's link: http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/08/engadget-and-jo ystiqs-live-coverage-of-sonys-playstation-3-e3-ev/
HD Trailers
Listen folks, you can complain all you want about the cost of the base system, but thanks to Microsoft, the market is already proven to handle it. Look at what happened during the 360 launch. You have a system at $399 with a feature-less version at $299. What is the result? You have to wait nearly six months before you can walk into a store and buy one. The demand was that high with the price point where it was at. People were even buying the $299 and paying through the nose to get the features of the $399 unit. So, Sony comes in and sells a feature complete PS3 (albeit with a smaller HD), for only $100 more. $499 will get you in for a fully functional, next gen system. With MS, you have to pay $399 plus what ever they are going to ask for the HD-DVD drive to get to the same level. People will pay, just wait.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
Sony!!! FTW!
Ha! The Joke's on Sony for taking the bait..
Nintendo folks have been saying for some time now that there is still a big secret to be revealed about the Wii. The controller, on the other hand, has been public for some time. Nintendo execs are no fool. They knew that if the public liked the Wiimote one of the other companies would quickly follow. Sony has just hung themselves with their half-assed knockoff attempt.
Now, Sony is really going to feel the fool when Nintendo reveals the true secret of the Wii tomorrow...
Disappointing stuff:
-No real improvements on the dual shock. 360 pad wins in this case.
-Motion detection on the pad feels like a last minute addon prompted by Nintendo's gamepad.
-Price is too high for the average joe. Even if it's a Blu-Ray player too.
-No big names playable at E3
-The xbox marketplace knockoff creeps me out. I don't think sony is going to handle this well.
-Nothing concrete on how they are going to rival xbox live.
Exciting stuff:
-Heavenly sword looks delicious! Feels like a next-gen God of War.
-Final Fantasy XIII is going to be gorgeous. But we knew that...
-some newly announced games look promising.
Verdict: I feel a stronger attraction for Wii....
Yeah, hey. Hardware mishaps are okay when they're used against people we don't like, right?
*cough*Apple*cough*
In comparison to the competition, yes it is too much. It's no good comparing it to another market entirely different to the one it's being launched into (the high end, yearly upgrade, video card market is no way a mass market).
In comparison to the XBox 360's current price, the price the XBox 360 may be by the time the PS3 comes out, and the price of the Wii (*snigger*)... it's making life very hard for itself. Especially if it cannot demonstrate anything far and above what the 360 and Wii can do.
I'm not sure, but I think it's the intangiable air of nostalgia. :-)
And of course, emulation for some of the more esoteric systems ( that can be bought for e.g. under $10 second hand here in Japan ) can be a little dicey at times. Old systems are cheap and charming, imho.
The first thing I thought of when I saw this was how the Playstation originally overtook the N64: it only had half the graphical capability of the N64, but it and it's games were cheaper and there were lots of them that appealed to many different demographics. Nintendo had the advantage of having more SNES consoles that any competitor's in homes coming into that next-gen battle, and wow, they got beaten to a pulp.
I don't see why Sony thinks it can pull an N64-esque move and price the system like this. What's the point of having a 20 GB hard-drive? Why don't they have a base model with only 5 gigs or something? And for god's sake, rehearse your fucking presentations.
If Nintendo dumps a ton of effort and cash into developing lots of cheap and really fun titles for the Wii and maybe throw in some online play with an option of playing for free with ads or something (and maybe change the bloody name back or to something else) they could easily retake their old throne. I don't think they'd have to worry about the 360 too much. I sense monumental blunders from MS in the near future, including pissing off hardcore gamers with more fees for every little thing on their online feature. That, and the price of the 360 ain't going down folks. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Yeah, Microsoft can afford to drop such a hardware intensive unit's price with all the shenanigans going on in the EU and Vista and IE. Sure.
Ex nihilo nihil fit.
Check out this PDF...
It looks like HDMI will only be on the 60GB model. Strange...
It's a little early into E3 to start prophesizing the downfall of Sony, the revival or Nintendo, or the evil dominion of Microsoft. We've seen a pre-E3 press conference for Sony. This is about equivalent to the first segment of the pre-game show. However bad or good the pre-show conferences are, there'll be plenty within the conferences themselves to sway things one way or another.
That said, the impression I've gotten from Sony's press conference is not a good one. The two reasons are as follows.
1) "Innovation" - Sony's best bet for hurting Nintendo was to give their idea no credence. They wouldn't look bad for writing off Nintendo's ideas as gimmicky. Microsoft already ignored Nintendo, Sony simply had to follow suit. Instead, they've copied Nintendo and called it "Innovation". Now when people go to shop for a next gen console, they won't be able to write Nintendo off as a gimmick. Even if Sony did just as good a job as Nintendo, they're $300-$400 more expensive. While the move covers their bases of Nintendo takes off, they're still the copycats and that hurts them.
2) "At What Cost" - $499 hurts. Because that hurts, Microsoft was kind enough to have a core package that was cheaper, lacked features, but didn't hurt so much unless you intended on using live a lot. Sony has another package too, costing $599. That there is good one two punch to the wallet. To top it off, the difference is a 20gb harddrive versus a 60gb harddrive. Last I checked, the price difference between those sizes was not $100. Is there something I failed to garner from the coverage?
Overall, Sony hasn't started off well, meaning they'll need to work doubletime to impress me this E3. However, it's entirely possible they'll succeed. With Nintendo and Microsoft still to come, there's no telling what will happen.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
Can the PS3 use a keyboard and mouse? I know the XBox360 can't.
Its expensive, and yeah its more expensive than an 360 base system, but then again, the xbox base system didn't come with a hard drive, or new dvd-playing capabilites. A lot of people will buy this because it will act as a blue ray drive as well a gaming system, the 360 still can't do that. In the UK those prices are gonna be around £350 and £400-410 I reckon (including markup) respectively which considering the PS2 was £300 6 yrs ago (so taking into account inflation), AND this is including a next gen drive, the cost is probably not that all bad, not what I was expecting anyway. I don't see how they can justify £50-60 or so for 40GB extra though, I'd expect an 80GB or even 100GB for that extra money and a minimum of 40GB in the base system.
>>Also, what's with the $100 price difference between the 20GB and 40GB model? (Guess that's how they're recouping what they're eating to sell the systems...) /not a fanboy of any specific system
I'd say that there will be shortage of the lower price 20gb models...so those who want one in the early days will be forced to take the more expensive models. That's how they will try and stop the bleeding...
Maybe the 60 gigger has some home media center features? It would make sense.
It's not that they took the concept of Live. I wasn't at all upset that 3rd parties and MS hopped on the wireless controller bandwagon after the Wavebird, and I wasn't at all upset about Live clones persay. It's more their history of doing this.
The playstation itself was a joint Nintendo/Sony project for an SNES CD addon. When it fell through they launched their own system.
The original PS controller basically amounted to an SNES controller with extended grips and double the shoulder buttons.
When Nintendo debuted the N64 controller, Sony added in 2 analog sticks, because twice is better. It took until the PS2 for anyone to do anything with it. This is one of their only two contributions, and it wasn't motivated by any gameplay reason. It was motivated by "twice is better."
The PS2 introduced backwards compatibility outside the handheld arena. Score the second thing Sony gave us.
Their first-party titles were all derivative of other dev-houses genre-creations, and had nothing noteworthy until they had the cash and cache to begin absorbing developers like Verant and Polyphony Digital.
The controller they just debutted to try to take the wind out of the Revolution/Wii is a wireless version of a PC gamepad MS debuted years ago, only in a standard dual shock form-factor.
It's not that Sony rips people off, it's that that's pretty much all they do, and if it was up to them we'd never see anything new or evolutionary. They have one success that's not an accidental good side-benny from stealing ideas from the competition, and they've pretty much rode on Nintendo's coattails for the past 14 years.
The playstation brand is a knock-off brand, slightly prettier of course, and they want to charge you a premium for it.
Then you factor in Sony Media, and the fact that they always seem to be calling the shots at big Sony, and torpedoing anything good Sony Electronics comes up with, plus the rootkit fiasco, and it's just not a company I want to financially support. They exemplify everything bad about Japanese corporations. And we're talking about everything percieved as bad about japanese corporations in the 50s.
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
When the first Playstation came out, it was way cheaper than even a modest PC. Now, consoles are going to end up costing more than many entry-level PC's. I know that any serious gaming PC will still cost more than these consoles, but come on...
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
It won't take Sony long to poke a couple of holes in the controller shell and call it a speaker.
Chika Chik-ah... do-e ow ow.
I still have all my old consoles (other than the Master System which broke years ago), but they mostly just take up room in the closet.
Some day they'll release a Sega CD game that doesn't suck, though, and the years of lugging this thing from place to place will have all been worth it...
I just found something they didn't bring up in the keynote:
9 ae.pdf
The cheaper version will NOT have WiFi, flash card slots, or HDMI output.
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/06050
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
Wow, this is rich, and that my good friends is not a pun. $500 - $600 for a 'gimmicky' console created in the image of its cheaper, more functional competitor, loaded with features that people simply probably aren't going to use, all to play what is essentially the same old crap with prettier graphics...
Say, does anyone remember one of the biggest reasons the 3DO didn't sell? Remember the then strong system specifications that ran hand-in-hand with its gigantic price tag? Remember all the stupid crap that people just didn't care about in a game console that came with it? Yeah, I'm getting a distinct feeling of deja vu here, too. I know the situation isn't the same exactly - Sony's a lot bigger than 3DO was, and has a mature console line, and a whole lot of games - but to me this announcement sounds more like a death-rattle for the Playstation unless this thing is launched with a lot of major, must-have titles to justify investing that much money into it. I'm not even sure the Final Fantasy 7 remake is going to be able to keep this thing from crumpling under its own price-tag, and it's going to be interesting to see where they go with this.
I had some hope for this thing, but now all my attention's focused on Nintendo. One, there's no way I'll be able to afford this thing any time soon, and two, the gimmicks they're throwing out with it tell me that they're getting desperate for some good ideas and hunting for reasons their console is going to be any better than the other two besides its system specifications. Unless there is a truly killer title released with this thing that I absolutely must have, there's no reason I'd pay even $400 for it. Just too much money.
Sorry Sony, but you lost me.
There are other differences between the $500 and $600 versions of the systems. According to Sony, the $500 version lacks HDMI output, which means that once DRM gets implemented, you don't get the full HD resolution that Blu-Ray is capable of. Also, the cheaper system lacks a slots for Memory Sticks, SD cards, and Compact Flash cards. The cheaper one also lacks wifi connectivity. Funny how Sony left all of that out of their presentation.
"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."
So when is the Halo 3 announcement?
I'd like to give an alternative view from many posts here.
First, I think Sony is very smart charging for this price. If they don't do this, people would shell out as much on ebay anyway. So, why not make money instead of some ebayers.
Second, this would reduce the number of order from ebay sellers, and give more availability to owners. This gives early adopters chance to buy them. This will reduce the shortage Sony may face giving worldwide release in a same time.
Third, if they sell it cheap, say $400, they cannot fullfill the demand, people would buy from M$ anyway, therefore, they don't loose market share either way.
Forth, after they sense the early adopters have mostly bought the product, they can decrease the price, reduce the lost per unit (as time goes, the unit cost goes down), produce more units and sell more to the average folks.
Fifth, with blue-ray, this thing is dirt cheap for early adopters. Just subtract the price from the average HD-DVD or blue-ray players out there, and see what you get for these 9 cores.
Sixth, complaint about Sony releasing something more (about the remote) makes no sense. It's more that they offer. It's a bonus. If they don't offer that motion sensor, would you complaint less? For those who came and watch the show, they feel bad because of the presentation, like Bill Gates crashes his computer when he demos, but people still shell out billions for XP, and not even know the story. Give more realistic complaint, like less innovative new titles, usability of the controller, etc.
I think Sony would give M$ a huge kick the butt if they release a well function linux (like Suse 10) with all usual apps with it pre-install. Many people would not buy PC because of this and this would hurt M$ revenue. Sony then need to make money on this by putting default pages on the browsers, offers online stores (just own customers like this is big money, seeing how M$ makes money from XP, and dominate the browsers using IE). If they can offense well, they'll have a good defense (this is an old say, I don't remember exact words - best defends is an effective offense?).
M$ will have harder time pouring billions into XBox 360, less discount money, less developers money, etc, and Sony have easier time to survive. I would also recommend Sony to release Linux for these 100 millions PS2. I means official release with a good infra structure for support, sell and marketing. These are big huge opportunities. If they don't take advantage of it, they could disappear.
If you have a HD display, you have to shell out the $600 to use it. 499.99 version: - No built-in Wi-fi - No HDMI port - No Memory Stick slot - No SD card slot - No Compact Flash slot - 20GB hard drive Sorry dude. It is crippled too.
Why is it $100 more for a measly 20gb drive?
Saving the World: One Drink at a Time
What's the point of having a 20 GB hard-drive? Why don't they have a base model with only 5 gigs or something?
The reason that both MS and Sony went with 20GB drives is because that's the cheapest 2.5" hard drive you can buy in quantity. I don't think anyone even makes a hard drive smaller than that anymore. Even the cheapest new laptops lately have been starting at 30GB. Of course, the $100 price differential between 20 and 60GB is still ridiculous (the price differential when looking at Newegg is more like $30-50), but I suspect Sony is trying to make up at least a little for what could be a large loss on the 20GB versions.
Say what you want about the Xbox 360 core versus HD deal, but for that extra $100 you got the hard drive, a wireless controller and the high-definition connector (as well as the remote control early on).
I know a lot of Nintendo fanboys are outraged that Sony would steal Nintendo's ideas. But this just validates what Nintendo has been saying all along. It's the way it's always been, other companies in this industry innovate, Sony steals, but they steal well. It works in all other art forms, so it works in videogames as well. And the real winners are the consumers in the end.
On the other hand, what the hell is Sony thinking? No, seriously, are they completely stupid? Why did they go to all the trouble of holding their press conference before Nintendo?
They revealed too much. The new controller. Motion sensing technology. A firm pricetag. Specific release dates. This is now Nintendo's E3 to "win". They don't have to hold anything back. Anything they know, but haven't told us, they can go ahead and tell now. Sony's already blown their load.
If I were Sony, I would have taken great pains to arrange my conference after Nintendo's, even if it had to be early morning on Wednesday, right before the expo opened. Nintendo would have played things close to their chest (as they always do). Microsoft's conference would have absorbed some (probably not a lot, but some) of the hype Nintendo generated. Then Sony could have come back with a solid blow in the motion sensing controller.
Or, even better, they could have kept it silent, and not announced it until a few months before the Wii launched. This would have given them more time to perfect the technology, as well as giving them the chance to demo it with, I don't know, actual games? You know, like what Nintendo is going to do tomorrow.
So, in conclusion, a big Bravo to Sony Technical Operations. Those guys are on the ball. But a big WTF to Sony Marketing. For the first time in a long while you guys have totally failed. No cookie for you.
just some guy
I think you guys should read this pdf $500 dollars give you a crippled PS3. Notice that, unlike the Xbox 360 cheap SKU, you cannot upgrade later to a HD version. The crippled PS3 won't grow new video outputs.
They're copying Live because it's a good idea, and they need it. But they're copying the motion-sensor thing purely to piss on Nintendo's chips, and that's just nasty. They clearly have no idea what to do with it, and they'll have trouble copying Nintendo's game ideas (which will, I think, require positional information).
If the games don't benefit then the additional cash you pay for those sensors will just be a 'help us kill Nintendo' tax.
What Sony announced today is completely different from what was announced last year. What a let down. And the price?! Insane. Also look at what you DON'T get in the base system:
9 ae.pdf
The base system LACKS:
- An extra 40Gb (base has 20, premium has 60).
- Memory Stick / SD / Compact Flash support.
- Wifi support (802.11 b/g)
- HDMI out
If you want any of those you must buy the $600 premium system! Crazy!
Read the Sony press release here:
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/06050
--
I don't see why Sony thinks it can pull an N64-esque move and price the system like this. What's the point of having a 20 GB hard-drive? Why don't they have a base model with only 5 gigs or something?
There won't be much price difference between manufacturing a 5 gig drive vs. a 20 gig hard drive these days. As you go down in capacity, the drives don't get all that much cheaper to make, so it wouldn't affect PS3's sticker price much.
wasn't it supposed to support two digital video outputs? Apparently not.
Consoles and gaming PCs used to be separate markets with a wide price gulf between them. MS and Sony have essentially taken what should be $2000 gaming PC's, crammed them into small boxes and then sold them at a huge loss to maintain anything resembling reasonable prices. They can't afford to do this anymore now and that's being reflected in these prices coming out for the 360 and PS3. This is really basic economics, there's no free lunch - if you want a quad core CPU and a GF7900, you need to market them as such and not make people think they can get that type of technology for $199. My prediction - Nintendo massively undercuts both of them with the Wii and wins this round. It won't give you uber transparency AA at HD res with 6 million gigaflops per second of power, but I'll bet you anything it's affordable and will have fun and innovative games. gg MS and Sony!
We already know basically what the PS3's graphics chip is: It's an nVidia 7900 (notice that launched when the PS3 was orignally supposed to).
The major graphics players have tons of R&D working overtime to keep cranking out new cards, and they throw everything they can in it. They don't have time to develop a 100% seperate architecture, nor can they afford to not put out their best technology in their cards. Thus, the console graphics cards are just modifications on their then-current technology. The 360 is more or less an ATi X1900, the PS3 will be more or less an nVidia 7900. They aren't directly comparable, since things are changed for console design, like using embedded RAM, different clock speeds, etc, but the basic technology and thus features is the same.
So fire up a PC with a 7900 in it, you get a pretty good idea what you are going to get with a PS3. You can't run benchmarks and expect them to be spot on, but you get an idea of the kind of visual features and pciture quality you can expect. Given that the 7900 and X1900 are performing in the same class, the 360 and PS3 will do so as well graphics wise. I'm sure certian titles will be tweaked a bit for one or the other, but I wouldn't expect to see either pull ahead a significant amount from the other.
Keyboard and mouse? You're losing the concept of a CONSOLE gaming system.
If you want a keyboard and mouse, save your $600 and keep using your PC for gaming.
...monkeys. Have you forgotten that the P3 will have blu-ray and the cell processor - it will be the most powerful gaming consoles ever made. It will be light-years ahead of 360. So they added a few cheesy gimmicks, big deal. I'll pay the money for this any day, it beats buying a standalone blu-ray player.
His point was legitimate and well stated.
To be fair, I only caught the last few minutes of Sony's press conference. I jumped in right as they were demonstrating the controller while playing Warhawk. From what I did see however, I honestly don't see myself wanting a controller that uses motion sensitivity. A lot of times when I play games, I like to lay on the couch underneath a blanket. This wouldn't really be possible if I had to swing my arms all over the place like the one guy did. I would also have to think my arms would get tired after a while. It's certainly to early to make a final decision about the controller, but my first impression isn't a real good one.
So let me get this straight:
PS3:Pros
Cons
Anything I've missed? The pros are not all that impressive or unique (and are dependant on other factors). The cons on the other hand are like a punch to the solar plexus.
Haven't seen any yet...
Cheers,
-b
One can easily buy a $500 computer that will play every PC game currently sold.
How many same-screen multiplayer PC games are currently sold? I want to build a set-top PC, connect it to my big-screen TV, buy four PC joypads, plug them into a USB hub, and have one control each player on a shared view. But why aren't there enough PC titles to do this? Most PC games require the purchase of a separate computer and monitor per player, even if the game wouldn't need a split screen (e.g. Smash Bros. or Bomberman).
FWIW- I've gotten slashdot crap for years for using that same argument about why I choose Opera as my web browser (back when it was pay)
Why is everyone complaining about the prices for the new consoles? Yes, consoles have traditionally gone for $200 - $300 when they first come out, but then again, consoles have never been nearly this powerfull relative to current computers.
These are the features that grabbed me the most about this keynote. Note that I think there are a lot of other goodies, but these are the "new" ones ...
1) Karaoke. Laugh all you want but that's a killer app.
2) Motion detecting controller. This truly adds some interesting abilities to games you could never have before. Consider the ability to "lean" as you go around a corner on a bike. The possibilities are endless and it's truly cool.
3) Downloadable content.
4) STANDARD HARD DRIVE.
5) Integration with a portable unit (PSP.)
Now, the things that suck. The price. It's $100 too much at launch for each configuration, and Sony will sell out without a problem. I'm sure it'll go down 6 months after release, though. Maybe June 2007.
I'm buying one the nano second I can.
"Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
...because, see, I own a console called the "Playstation 2", and I believe this announcement pretty much seals that the PS2 will be supported for about as long as the PSX was after the PS2, and then some. I'll be seeing new games come out for my system long after Bush leaves the White House!
Anyway. My deeper, thoughtful reaction?
First, the controller.
From what I've seen:
The Wii controller is trying to do this fancy-pants "swing it like a sword - it IS a sword" stuff that is Very Great for fanboys but will probably never pan out in actuality ("oh crap, I moved my controller diagonally left-down instead of straight-down, now I am rolling straight off a cliff instead of ducking")
The PS3 controller is a last minute design, "oh this'll be so kewliez" sorta thing. Only thing is, if it's motion tracking AND Rumble, then that's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. And if it's not Rumble, congratulations, Sony, you took your one best feature from the PS2/Xbox/GC days and threw it off a cliff. HOWEVER - I think this controller will work a lot better for stuff like racing games (some people already tilt the controllers for an extra sharp turn - now it'll be like the SNES, where analog (/the crosspad) will turn you the "maximum", and tilting (/the L/R triggers) will push you past the limit.
Beyond racing games there aren't any situations where this controller is leaping out and attacking me with Perfection, but the truth is that it's a lot more subtle than the Wii, and so probably will result in a more diverse set of games, a few dozen of which will use the tilt to great effect. The tilt is "there if you need it", the Wii-stick is "all you can expect the gamer to have" - barring some sort of original-DualShock controller redesign.
Price, sucks.
Getting everything you need with the console, nice idea
I wouldn't be too surprised if the controller went through another final revision, possibly doing away with the tilt sensing altogether. Or maybe not.
It makes me sad thinking back ten+ years ago... "299." this isn't. Oh, Sony, how the mighty have fallen : (
It could really, really use a quality pack-in. Or two. Is Sony taking a loss on these? Are the internals solid 24k gold and diamond? If they're making a profit, they should srsly throw in a pack-in game that everyone's going to want anyway. It's the least they could do.
This trend of micro-purchasing sucks balls, and all other things equal, the console I'd buy and get all fan-boyish over will be the one with the least amount of this horse-armor^H^H^H^H^Hshit.
In the end, personally, the Wii isn't getting my money no matter how cheap it is. $300 for dogshit is still paying money for dogshit. It's like buying a Peter Frampton CD for $30 because the only other CDs in the store are Linkin Park for $40 ($50 with liner notes) and Boyz II Men for $60 ($70 with bonus tracks). The XBox 360 needs a price drop and a library of offbeat "killer aps" (just to give an idea of what I consider a "killer ap", three "killer aps" for the PS2 were MetropoliaMania!, Katamari Damarcy, and Bombastic - I'm a fan of the sub-$30 game that is fun and long-lasting, fuck that Splinter Cell MGS Gran Turismo bullshit). And the PS3... two great pack-in games, one or two price drops and maybe a free hooker with every game (just to take my mind off of the days of "$299"), choose two, then I'll bite.
I also forgot to mention that my PC has, IMO, a superior human interface in the keyboard & mouse
Try playing a four-player real-time PC game with a keyboard and mouse without buying a $2000 set of four computers and $600 set of four monitors.
(part of the reason for the variety of games - try playing strategy games with a controller...)
Advance Wars and the (Japan-only) rest of the $console Wars series of strategy games from Nintendo handle just fine with a digital controller. So do Ogre Battle, Tactics Ogre, and Final Fantasy Tactics. In addition, the Wii and possibly PS3 controllers have tilt sensors that can be used as a pointing device to select units and the like in the real-time sims you're probably talking about.
With prices like that good luck getting your target audience of teens and young adults to purchase it. Some people may have been lucky enough to have the $300 - $400 to spend on a 360, but I highly doubt most people are going to have enough money to blow $600 on a console.
Im gonna go reserve a Wii, even if it has a bad name, it will probably only cost me $250 at most.
First, "engineering gut feature" -> "engineering gut feeling". Oops.
Second, it turns out they cut rumble to support the sensors, for obvious reasons.
So, they're cutting a long-standing feature to trade in for a novel feature that (after reading more about it) shows every sign of being half-assed that I'd expect to see. This has the stench of a management decision made against the recommendation of the engineers, and I bet the engineers about went ballistic when they were informed it had to be ready for E3.
I don't know about Japan, but I'm smelling Microsoft/Nintendo for this next generation, and I'm increasingly wondering if it might not be ~3:1 in Nintendo's favor in three years (which is about the earliest I'd say we can "call" the results of this generation). The opening lineup for the Wii may even best the Dreamcast's opening lineup, which was spectacular for the time (as long as you could get your RPG fix somewhere else...).
There's a reason the Wii-mote comes in two. It's very hard to use the analog while taking advantage of the motion sensor. Pick up a PS2 controller. Imagine using the analog to move and the motion sensor to look. Now move left and look right. A lot of people that I asked needed a moment to think about it first or they looked to the left first. I don't think they even use the analog when demoing the controller.
A true Slashdotter hates all intellectual property.
I'm a tourist.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
True, Wii supports traditional GameCube controllers in at least GameCube compatibility mode. But does Wii support traditional GameCube controllers in Wii mode? Or are you talking about the "shell" that the Wiimote slides into to form what is essentially this PS3 controller?
The NES debuted at a price of 199.99 back in 1986 (or 249.99 if you got the ROB). Using this as a basis and the Commercial Price Index between now and then: people were spending 364.58 (455.73) in today's dollars for the NES. Given how much I and my friends have played my NES in my lifetime, I'd say that it was money well spent.
Sony's decision to launch this multi-functional techology for 500 or 600 dollars is comparable to what people were gambling back in 1986. And the NES was only a gaming center. The PS3 will be your DVD player (among the first Blu-ray players) as well as a lot more. The price may be high for some, but they will get buyers who will not feel cheated at that cost because it is NOT unreasonable to pay 600 for the brains of your entire entertainment center (although most of us out there already have the majority of our entertainment centers made - minus the Blu-ray).
Would I like the price to be less like the Wii? Yes. Am I going to wait for the price to lower to more traditional prices (200-400)? It depends on if the PS3 can deliver enough games and utility to me to make it worth that money. I know, however, that many of my friends will be spending one morning in mid-November hanging outside of a Walmart or BestBuy waiting to get their hands on some of the first copies of the PS3. Sony knows what they are doing with that price, and I honestly can't wait to see what innovations they bring about. This goes the same for the Wii as well. Gameplay nowadays isn't based on the best graphics for me as much as the most entertaining concepts. Recently, not much has been able to compare with the wonders of the NES and Dr. Mario, Super Mario Bros, or Contra. Bring it on!
What do you gain from playing on an old piece of hardware?
Three things:
I got a PS2 around when it came out (maybe it was the following year, i forget) because it included a DVD player basically for the cost of DVD player. At the time, a DVD showed nice quality movies on the TVs we all had. I hooked it up to the kids TV and everyone was happy.
Its ridiculous to consider Blueray without an HD set. We have fairly large screen working TVs that are hard to get rid of, not to mention, that we'd prefer the console go on the 2nd TV.
Basically, what's different this time around for Sony, is that most consumers don't have the TVs to make the PS3 an attractive value.
being called 'Wii'
How is the name of Sony's "PS3" (pronounced piss three) any better than Nintendo's "Wii"?
>$500 ($550 CDN for me) IS a harsh sting... but compared to the $400 (non-crippled model) Xbox 360, it DOES have a Blu-ray drive, which is a nice bonus.
heck at $600 for the blue-ray with HDTV support, if it has a remote controll that can turn it on and off, I'll buy one, and I don't care about the games. Thats assuming blue ray players are still over $900 when it comes out. (I do have a Xbox with games, but I only got it after/because the encryption was cracked.)
A non blue-ray/HD-DVD XBox would be no comparison (by non, I mean not bulit-in, who wants 2 boxs to cover one job)
Umm, what the f*ck am I supposed to do with a 20GB hard drive? My 3 year old iPod has more space than that. And unless that $100 upgrade comes with a 15k RPM drive, sony can suck my...
It was not totally random. The point is that without same-screen multiplayer features, multiplayer video gaming requires one PC per person and thus costs $2000 plus 3 extra monitors for a 4-player game, not $500 as you claimed.
So Revolutionary! Wii've never seen anything like it! I nINTEND-O to buy one for 500 dollars, but I think I might pay some MARIO and get the 60 gb version, that'd be just PEACHY. Actually I'd say it looks the SAMUS (same as) another controller... Can someone LINK me to some information regarding this controller. Still though, BOWSERS (that's what I say when I'm impressed).
"I'm not religious, but at the same time I don't get why science always has to have something to prove."
I watched this live on the net hoping to catch a glimpse of some revolutionary stuff. Something to redeem the message that Sony has been sending out these past few years about the PS3: "We don't know what we're doing. We hate you, we hate games, we hate gamers, and we hate gimmicks. We might just top ourselves instead of bringing out this console."
What did I catch a glimpse of instead? Pre-render after pre-render after pre-render. They were so ridiculously worried about making sure we thought they were running live PS3 demos it was almost embarrasing. To paraphrase: "Hi. Live on PS3 we've got some live on PS3 games to show you live on the PS3. Live on the PS3 we'll be showing you live on the PS3 some demonstrations live on the PS3 of blah blah 3, live on the PS3. Also, live on the PS3 we've got a live on the PS3 trailer from Hideo 'Live on the PS3' Kojima for MGS4, live on the PS3. Take a look at our new controller, which we'll be demonstrating live on the PS3 in a moment, where you can see we've got the original PS2 controller, minus the parts we got su-- I mean the part that interfered with the operation of the controller-- and we've added a nice litte Xbox Guide button for you, some triggers, and a piss-poor rendition of the thing Nintendo are doing that we called a gimmick so recently. That's right folks, we've got tilt-sensors in the controller. Allow me to plug this into the PS3, live of course, and demonstrate it live on the PS3. s you see, live on the PS3 we can use this controller to play a flight sim live on the PS3. We can controll yaw, roll, etc. live on the PS3 using the 6-way (trust me it's awesome) tilt sensor."
If I was Kutaragi today, I would have been embarrased to have to walk out on stage and show that controller off. It basically said "We know you think we're evil after all the other shit we pulled. What the fuck difference is this gonna make? Here's your fucking controller you zealots. Eat it."
Looks like I'm going to be abandoning those plans to get a PS3 then. PC upgrades, here we go.
A block of code, sufficiently well-written, is indistinguishable from magick.
Having read the PDF detailing Sony specifications for the two models, I retract the above. While I do think the PS3 is overpriced compared to the Xbox 360, the 60GB version is actually a pretty good deal compared to the 20GB version since you get wireless networking, flash capability and the HDMI output in addition to the extra 40GB of HD space. This is particularly true since, supposedly, you can't get full resolution out of Blu-Ray without using either HDMI or DVI with HDCP...
1) Karaoke. Laugh all you want but that's a killer app.
Snicker, snicker, snicker. Every console since the Sega CD has been capable of doing Karaoke. That's a great feature, for people that don't play games.
2) Motion detecting controller. This truly adds some interesting abilities to games you could never have before. Consider the ability to "lean" as you go around a corner on a bike. The possibilities are endless and it's truly cool.
Yeah, let's ask Nintendo about those possibilities.
3) Downloadable content.
Yeah, let's ask Nintendo and Microsoft about that.
4) STANDARD HARD DRIVE.
Well, if it worked for the original XBox...
5) Integration with a portable unit (PSP.)
Too bad it doesn't integrate with a portable unit that doesn't suck.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
I honestly didn't think I would dislike the PS3 launch as much as I did. Really wanted a console and thought these next-gen consoles would be the ones that would take me from PC to console. 360 vs PS3. Which one to get? Thought the PS3 would be awesome. The crappy launch today and the awful price tag clinched it for me. 360 it is. Sad to say it, but I have to. If you're going to plan an awesome product, why not think about the price tag BEFOREhand? Simply awful.
Looks like some Nintendo fanboy hit this with -1 Overrated (aka the Coward's Mod). Way to show us all just how chickenshit you Nintendo fanboys are! Go back to drinking your Wii now.
is chairs not being thrown in Redmond tonight. I bet Ballmer is doing his monkey boy dance around the Redmond campus tonight with big skidmarks down his backside he loosed from laughing so hard he almost choked!
...Incoherent Nipponese Mumbling... (pinky reapplied to lips) Six Hundred Dollars!"
I didn't see any of the E3 announcement, but I can just picture Dr. Evil saying, "We will sell them for... (pinky to lips) Five Hundred Dollars...
I would seem as if Sony has, more or less, recreated Betamax by introducing a $500 BD player.
Betamax died because it was a) expensive, and b) unavailable to 3rd party manufacturers. No doubt, Sony has opened up BluRay to 3rd parties who want to develop BD players. That said, with BD disk -drives- retailing at $850, how are 3rd party manufacturers supposed to develop a set-top that will go up against the PS3?
This smells like beta all over again. Sony's opened up BD to third parties, but if they're going to market a $500 set top, they should probably get prepared for a flood of manufacturers producing HD DVD players.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
It seems that what Sony has done with the "new" controller design is exactly what they have been doing with the rest of the PS3 development: same thing, with incremental upgrades. Nothing really new or innovative, no risks, just the same thing rehashed with current technology. I may be alone in this, but I think the old design for the PS3 controller was better. This demo shows how the original design was supposed to work. It just looks like it would fit in the hand much better than the PS2 controllers, which I've always thought were ergonomic disasters. But maybe that's just me.
And everyone knows both the 360 AND the PS3 are selling for a major loss. These companys have to be out of their mind.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
PS3 from the press release:
Approximately 325mm (W) x 98mm (H) x 274mm (D)
The original Xbox
Dimensions: 320 × 100 × 260 milimeters (12.5 × 4 × 10.5 in)...
So how does the PS3 being 2mm taller but 5mm less wide and 14mm less deep equate in any way to it being "larger"? It is heavier, but then it's packing a lot of stuff.
In comparison, the original PS2 was 305mm x 79mm x 184mm. So a little wider, and a lot deeper and taller.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
[It's] $100 more than MicroSoft's expensive model. That should tell you that it probably will pack the most graphical punch.
No. It should tell you they are trying to sell a Hi-Def DVD player that plays games. I think Nintendo is going to Wii all over Sony in this generation.
one thing that this does solidify is that, just like in politics, this will drown the xbox. microsoft will probably be able to come up with a similar controller, most likely third party, but they will likely not be able to successfully impliment the motion sensor ability. If two consoles have something that the other does not, then it will not survive. that means that consumers who have the financial means will purchase the ps3, and the rest of the world will purchase the wii. if i can get a similar experience for half the price, then i will definately take the cheaper route. nintendo is probably thrilled to death that sony has put their real compeitor, microsoft, out of the game. if this does not happen and sony has a crappy version of the wii controller, then microsoft will overtake them and nintendo will get ports of all the games that would otherwise go to microsoft. either way this is a victory for nintendo.
With no hdmi output on the cheap version, how are you going to output bluray content that is drm'd?
Rumble is moderately interesting. But it's not worth paying those fucks at Immersion for it. It never added much to a game anyway.
So I say if it would have added to the cost of the unit, I for one won't miss it.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Many of these complaints are valid, but the fact is sony is still going to own these other companies in worldwide sales, and it won't change anytime soon.
I honestly see Wii smoking the other two, based upon price mostly.
Especially when parents are spending the dough.
I have a 360 already but the games suck.
From the worldwide release and Nov 17 launch date, and $500 price, I won't be getting a PS3 this year.
So I expect I'll be playing Wii on Nov 17.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
The heavenly sword graphics look like they belong on the ps2. Jaggies show a complete absense of anti-aliasing and the polygon count on the faces are quite low. This is quite a bit worse then the tech demos.
Hmmm... Pie...
I hope Nintendo and Microsoft have enough patents to bury Sony, because they really, freakin' deserve it.
Are you sure you've really thought that one through?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
The Sony guy walked up to the mike and said one thing that got the crowd going: "$299"
Somehow, I think that Sony is opening themselves up to exactly what they took advantage of.
I don't want a 360, and I'll probably buy a Wii-volution on release day (as I did with GameCube), but I'm going to hold off on the PS3 until it significantly goes down in price. At least the stripped down PS3 will be more usable than the stripped down 360. (I don't need HDMI, and I don't need WiFi in the console.)
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
With a $500 "core" price tag versus the $300 basic xbox tag its obvious whose going to be the winner these holidays. Sony expects to sale 2 million units during the holidays while microsoft is busy ramping up their inventory. Come this christmas sony will be racing to meet demand while 360's will be flying off the shelves. With an estimated cost of $1k per unit 2 million in sales sony will be $1 billion in debt. Bill Gates: "Buy 'em out boys"
Yes, you are completely correct. Guilty of PWT (Posting While Tired).
So then it's also lighter... interesting.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Sorry, but it comes to branding and games. Sony may close the gap in the US, but I don't see any system outselling the ps3 worldwide, it will hardly be a flop. The ps3 games will still appeal to a more diverse international audience, and hopefully there will be more really good ones compared to the 360. But still, the name brand alone will be hard to overcome.
Yes, I have, and have concluded I lose nothing. I'm not a big realistic racing/rally fan, so no more Gran Turismo isn't a big deal.
If Sony hadn't existed this past generation, we would've lost what? 2 gran turismos, Ico, SoC, and God of War.
If they succeed in continously stealing other company's ideas, and never innovating on their own from a games perspective, we lose everything.
Yea, Sony needs to die. They won't, but they should.
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
man, I remember the last console to ship with support for 7 controllers, advanced video playback capability, strong multimedia features, and a > $500 pricetag.
I wonder what all those people who used to work at 3DO are doing now.
Oh, they're working for Sony.
(All snark aside, mad props to RJ Mical, Dave Needle, and David Morse. These guys together have come up with some of the best-designed and least well-received pieces of videogame hardware conceived in the last 20 years. They deserve better than the market gave them.)
Even Jesus hates listening to Creed.
I don't think Sony originally intended to have two versions of the PS3, the 20 GB w/out HDMI and memory slots and the 60 GB w/everything. I am going to go out on a limb and say the only reason Sony is offering a 20 GB version is that they realize that $200 more than their competitor is too much especially when the differences in graphics performance and overall experience appear negligible.
Add an expected price drop on the 360 around the time of the PS3 launch and Sony is going to have a hard time selling machines. Is the PS3 a better machine? In terms of what you'll see on your TV and how it plays, no. I mean the 360 and PS3 both offer wireless controllers, similar if not the same HD graphics and on-line support. Xbox Live is Microsoft's ace in the hole, but Sony could leverage an advantage if they aren't complete assholes with their service like they are with other areas of their entertainment division.
Sony has the advantage of supporting an HD DVD disc standard out of the box, so you won't see games spanned across multiple discs or the possibility of games sacrificing textures or sounds to squeeze a game on a smaller disc. Sony could also steal some thunder if there are few to no hardware problems, but I expect by the time the PS3 launches Microsoft will have eliminated those issues with the 360 and we might even see a slight redesign or re-jigging of the bundles and the elimination of a no hard drive option. That's just a guess, though.
Well then set down your "paddle" and tell your CONSOLE to get off the internet and stop playing media. Console game systems evolve. I can get a keyboard for the Dreamcast, PS, PS2, and XBox. You can buy DDR pads, guitars, joysticks, etc. for console systems. What's so bad about a keyboad and mouse?
I feel they are a better controller for FPS and RTS games that have made their way to the Console.
benefits far outweigh the tiny fraction of compatibility issues.
Unless one of those compatibility issues affects your favorite game by scrambling the graphics beyond recognition or (worse) causing it to halt. And have emulators of newer systems (PS1, N64) progressed to the point where they don't need settings per game?
24" LCD
Can you get such an LCD for $150 like this 24" CRT SDTV? Not everybody makes a ton of money.
crappy RF switch
The front-loading NES can output composite video. The Super NES, PS1, N64, PS2, and GameCube (and presumably the PS3 and Wii) can output S-video. Who needs an RF switch?
It's not hypothetical. I do like both console-style games and independent games. In addition, I am a game developer, and I would like a suggestion for platforms. I phrase things as hypotheticals in order to avoid a smart-ass "sucks to be you" type of response.
Not at all. The PS3's RSX chip is fairly conventional, but it will only have a 128bit bus, compared to the 7900's 256bit bus. The memory is clocked fast, but it's still almost half the bandwidth. This is going to hurt texturing & AA speeds particularly, relative to a real 7900.
The 360's Xenon chip isn't remotely the same as an X1900. For one, it has a unified shader architecture, and can dynamically devote all 48 shader units to processing vertices, or to pixels, or any mix that suits the game. Secondly, it has 512MB of 256bit memory shared with the CPU (as with Xbox1), so it can read/write direct to CPU memory. Third and not least, it has 10MB of 256GB/s eDRAM with on-die blending & AA logic, which makes AA nearly "free" (at 720p).
In practice, most people consider them reasonably similar, edge to the Xenon perhaps - but characteristics will be different to PC chips. Xenon may take longer to fully utilise, due to its non-standard architecture.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Given that the original specs from Sony mentioned dual-DVI outs, that the A/V multi-out port has had the pins multiplexed to support component video for the PS2, and that there are exactly enough pins in the multi-out connector to support HDMI out, it wouldn't be too surprising if the less expensive PS3 supported digital video out over the MultiOut port. This would have the added benefit (for sony) of allowing them to sell an expensive adapter to people buying the cheaper model, but wanting a digital connection.
The way HDCP works will require the same digital signals internal to the machine that would be used to drive an HDMI interface, so it would actually be more expensive for them to then convert that to an analog signal.
MS had announced they'll ship an HD-DVD drive as addon. I won't be suprised, if MS is going to announce that at least the Premium packs will ship with HD-DVD as default internal drive.
It's amazing to read through these comments. You can string together two major themes: Sony is going down, and Nintendo is rising. Huge role reversal. methinks japan will be held by sony still though, if only because they have an insatiable lust for RPGs of the squarenix kind.
I think Sony is going after too many markets with this thing. First, obviously, it is going head to head with the 360 processing power-wise. They are also trying to convert people to Blu-Ray. Now they have a poor's man version of the Wii controller. They're playing catchup with Microsoft on the online front.
:)
In the meantime, they are trying to compete with Nintendo in the handheld and are clearly losing. Latest figures show 17 million actually sold while Sony shipped 17 million units, and I can see PSPs sitting on the shelves right about anywhere.
So basically, Sony in the coming months will try to win people over to PSP, PS3 and Blu-Ray. Each technology at a higher price point than their competitors. I know of only one company who can do this, and it's Apple. And Sony sure isn't Apple when it comes to marketting.
Now, given that MS's base system is 299$ and Sony's is 499$, and Nintendo's probably 200$, I can see a lot of parents going for the 360 and the Wii instead of the PS3 at Christmas time.
Also, I bet there's a very good reason why Blu-Ray can ship at 500$ with the PS3 while a stand-alone player costs in the nine hundreds. It will have poor playback like the PS2 did.
I have a 360 right now, and from what I've seen from the conference Sony just did, I feel even better about my purchase. Looking forward to buy a Wii right after launch.
Sept two launch titles on the Wii ARE SE games, one of which Dragon Quest being the #1 all time best seling series in Japan. Final Fantasy is popular, but not nearly as much as Dragon Quest.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
The dualshock in its current form (besides the odd feature here or there) was introduced in late 1997. That's nine years of stagnation. For the next 2 console generations the other players have continued to rethink and tweak their user input. Nintendo is building their entire console around the wii controller and its strengths. Microsoft too has been responsive in modifying their controller ( remember the original ginormus xbox gamepad?). Sony's controller though, is an afterthought on an afterthought on an afterthought. The analog sticks of the dualshock were a simple bandaid on the original controller released in 1994(in japan). The original controller itself was only a slightly modified take off the Super Nintendo controller. By not redesigning the controller for the playstation 2 they sent the message that they did not consider the controller an important part of the ps2's development. Now we have the ps3 controller. Its motion sensing is again, an afterthought. The original ps1 controller was not designed with motion sensing in mind, how could it be that it's great grandchild will comfortably support it? Nintendo's controller was built from the ground up as a motion sensing device; this is a last minute tack on. I have serious doubts that many games would actually use the functionality and lets face it, a giant failure to innovate for almost 12 years.
In the end, it's a royal screw up. Sony stopped innovating in 1994, and have been riding the wave of success ever since. Now with this "new" controller, I have to question if they're even trying to compete with the much more compelling offerings from Nintendo and Microsoft. At least those companies have actually considered how they can offer more value to their customers.
Besides, it'd not only the controller; everything coming out of Sony lately has been very questionable. There was the rootkit fiasco(not to mention their drm woes), there's the counterproductive blu-ray war, there's the entire stink over their changes to star wars galaxies, and there's their great loss in the portable music arena due to their failure to innovate against apple. Sony is having real difficulties these days giving the consumer what they want. If I had stock in the company, I'd sell it.. but fortunately I don't.
gugugugugugugugugugugugu.
It'll be awesome.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
Sony and Microsoft both took big losses on the PS2 and Xbox hardware, whereas Nintendo did not. Sony might have made more money in the long run, but selling your hardware at a big loss and hoping to make it up on game licensing is a very risky business model. The only reason we're seeing the 360 is because Microsoft can afford to lose 4 billion here and there to prop up a console system. Sony can't.
Then you have to learn to type while you're tilting your keyboard all over the place.
now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
it would only be ok if assassin's creed is also released for the 360. that is, assuming the game that gets released has anything to do with the trailer.
you probably shouldn't have read this.
Where I work we elaborate communications equipment an order of magnitude more complex than a PS3. Our current design only cost a quarter million to develop. And it's space qualified and rad-hard.
Can someone tell me where all the endless million go in game console development?
http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=8 63/
As I suspected, Sony is trying to dilute Nintendo's innovation. I think most of us here are savvy enough to know that the PS3 controller is going to be far inferior to the Nintendo's "Wii-mote". Yet, how many of your regular consumers are going to know the difference?
I don't think Sony's goal was to out-do the Wii controller's feature and functionality. All it needs to do is dumb it down. Same goes for the Xbox Live experience. Let's deliver crap offerings of our competitors' features so that we can say "meeee tooo!". All they have to hope is that enough consumers figure that the PS3 offering is "good enough".
I cringe at the following scenario, which I know is going to happen:
ME - *trying to explain the Nintendo Wii controller to a non-gamer friend*
FRIEND - "Ohh, so it's like the PlayStation controller I've heard about?"
ME - *cries*
-- jchenx
I bought the PSP so I could play with coding for it and to run old SNES games. Haven't bought a PSP game yet... I will be buying PS3 games, its true, but just imagine the potential when the first mod chips come out, and someone leaks out a devkit for the cell. Oh to be able to play with that processor, its worth the price. You won't be able to get a chip with an architecture like the cell anyway else for the foresable future, and sure it will probably just be a glorified toy for me, but here's to hoping that the mod/indy community does amazing things with the cell.
I used to work for sony in 96-98, and I distinctly remember a prototype controller with an accelerometer being tried out. The tech is not really comparable to the Wii controller and there is a good reason why they never bothered to release it. Which makes you wonder why they suddenly decided to include it now, if not in a feeble attempt to steal Nintendo's thunder.
claiming one personally has to pay for computers for each of four players would be more of a limitation in the speaker, actually.
If you're referring to bring-your-own-computer LAN parties, those generally don't apply to play dates involving minor children. Only in rich households does each family member have a separate PC and a separate copy of each game.
So you can play Gauntlet, Mario Party, and the original NES version of Bomberman.
And Rampage, Rampart, Amplitude, Secret of Mana, subsequent Bomberman games, Smash Bros., and more that I can't think of right now. Not to mention the vertically split games where you're supposed to see the other player's playfield, such as most 2-player puzzle games.
By charging so damn much, Sony's cutting out the possibility of the vast majority of anyone who doesn't have a full time job buying the console. No college students, no teenagers, no kids, no low income families...
Even though the current consoles aren't cheap, they're affordable. This? Sony, say goodbye to your #1 spot - it's gone, and all it took was that one announcement to guarantee it.
Goo goo g'joob.
Remember the rootkit! Don't buy this shit!
They made the Xbox 360 look cheap.
I had to go to wikipedia to check the price of the 360. It's only $399 for the premium system. And I thought to myself, 'That can't be right? That sounds so cheap.' Then I realized, it's because the PS3 is ridiculously expensive.
I'm not going to buy the 360 at $399. I most certainly am not going to buy a relatively crippled PS3 at $499, and $599 is right out. I'll have to get one eventually, but it's gonna be a long, long while before I can justify that sort of purchase.
just some guy
This is supply and demand, folks. And profit optimization. If PS3 launched at 250 dollars, the lines would be horrid and Sony still would anyway not be able to make more consoles in the time until the launch: Remember, production is typically not-so-smooth-and-efficient for the first months.
So, if Sony cannot make more consoles - then they can crank up prices until production capacity increases. The shortages of XBOX360 and PS2 upon launch were caused by the companies setting the prices too low: Props to them for that, but I bet the shareholders would have liked that money not to be wasted.
Still, 599 dollars is quite a bit more than what I'm willing to pay as I don't even have a HDTV.
Stop the brainwash
Am I missing something, or wasn't the point of a feature-set game player that developers would have confidence that they could develop games for a stable machine architecture?
Given the expected initial pricing for a PS3, what incentive is there for a game developer to code for 1080p, wi-fi or flash memory capabilities if most of their audience can't use it because they opted for the less-expensive model?
-- Gary Goldberg KA3ZYW 301/249-6501 AIM:OgGreeb Digital Marketing Inc., Bowie, MD
So you think PS3 will fail? You are watching the PSP, are you? They are pushing it with some serious oomph. You get UMD Versions with every new DVD release of a movie. The games rock. The display rocks. The upcoming games rock. Sticks are getting cheaper by the minute. All the upsides carry well across loadtimes and battery time. If my cash-level rises again I'll maybe even get one. Never thought I would.
Sony isn't a small company. They don't need to fire away crates of cash as MS has to in order to enter the market. They only need to stay downward compatible and build a box that doesn't suck. Add a Linux Kit, a good developer kit and a up-to-date Final Fantasy title and they're in the game again. Actually, they never where out. I gather the PS2 is selling well and still generating revenue, no?
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I know a lot of people are saying Nintendo's going to announce their NEXT big innovation and blow Sony's rip-off controller feature out of the water. And I'm not going to argue with that, not really.
But Nintendo's demos of their OWN controller are going to blow Sony's controller out of the water all on their lonesome. Anybody who's been following this knows that there will almost certainly be a demo of swinging Link's sword with that thing! Hell, it might even be the game that the winner of that contest gets to play, to show how easy it is to use.
There's nothing that you can do with Sony's controller that will come CLOSE to competing with that.
Sony's controller is so much more inferior. It's only a tilt sensitive controller. Heck, the GBA had tilt sensitive games!
The Wii's controller understands 3D space. You can move it forward and back, up and down, left and right, and has a pixel-accurate pointer. Imagine a hand in a room, you can navigate that hand up and down, left and right and towards the far side of the room, or closer towards yourself just by moving the Wii controller in a natural fashion as you would in real life.
Furthermore, the nunchaku add-on has the tilt function and accelerometer that this "innovative" Sony controller provides.
The Sony controller doesn't even come close to what the Wii-mote can do.
Do you beat off to pictures of Mario?
All of the top moderated comments here use "Wii" as a proper noun, as if it was a legitimate moniker (no longer speculative or a belated April Fool's joke). The comments also refer to it with respect as if it was a reasonable control device. Maybe it's easy to see now that Sony has announced such a relatively lame product in comparison, but I find it humorous that there are no more jokes at Wii's expense.
/. has bought into it!
Seems like Nintendo's marketing has worked well. It's been, what, two weeks, and even
I'm a Nintendo Fanboy. I've found the features that have so-far been announced for the Wii to be innovative, and I generally feel the same way as 90 percent of the posters (that its features are far superior to the PS3 and 360, etc). However...
I recall back in 2000-2001. If I had gone off of the slashdot community to gauge the public's opinion to the Xbox vs. PS2 vs Gamecube console wars, I would have thought the gamecube would outsell its competition by 10:1. The opposite was basically true.
I don't put much stock in the predictions of the slashdot community in this case. I foresee PS3 and XBOX 360 as being successful and the Wii, while being my favorite of the generation, as being #3 yet again.
...back in the Dark Forces, X-Wing and Day of the Tentacle days... *sighs*.. :)
The XBox 360 can use any USB HID device as long as the title supports it. Unfortunately...
universal controller standard required
I think the Digital out is a S/PDIF for audio only. One thing about the HDMI - doesn't Blu-ray movies require it to be played in full HD-resolution? Because of the rights management? So the cheaper PS3 could only play them nonHD?
-- Aniseed the Panda
"Apparently, not only does the $499 system have a smaller harddrive, but it has fewer features as well."
pro-ps3: The high end version has even more features!
anti-ps3: The low end version has features removed!
more neutral: there are two versions with different feature sets.
I don't understand the extreme anti-Sony attitude that I've seen from US posters. Most people in the rest of the world are looking forward to the PS2 and think it'll do reasonably well.
/.) reaction against Sony and the PS3. It smacks of racism to me - I can only figure you Yanks are anti Japanese - the vitriol and hatred is beyond reasoned debate.
The PS3 release price mentioned is considerably cheaper than the PS2 was initially released for in New Zealand - and that ended up being a top seller, hugely outselling the XBox. And that was when the XBox was technically superior. This time around, the PS3 is technically superior, it has backwards compatibility with PS1/2 - which has a huge installed user base. The stipped down PS3 doesn't lose any features most of us need (there's little HDTV in NZ) whereas all PS3 models come with a HD and BlueRay, which is a huge plus.
I'm not a console game fan - in fact, I hate console games (much prefer PC games), but I watch the games market, and I can't figure the US (especially
We have fanboys claiming BlueRay is a failure before it's even launched. Posters ignoring Sony's proven track record in this market and (weirdly) ignoring the 360's very poor sales figures. Sony *WILL* do well. They have a good product, they KNOW how to sell consoles. If the initial price is too high, it will drop quickly. The same happened with the PS2 and that was a huge success. Most people without an axe to grind expect that they will do well again.
Guys, grow up.
It seems that the introduction of the motion sensing on the PS3 controller means that dual shock has to be removed from the controller.
From the linked article:
The press release stated that, "Pursuant to the introduction of this new six-axis sensing system, the vibration feature that is currently available on DUALSHOCK and DUALSHOCK 2 controllers for PlayStation and PlayStation 2, will be removed from the new PS3 controller as vibration itself interferes with information detected by the sensor."
IMHO removing the vibration feedback is a big loss for PS3, so this motion sensing better be the bollocks
Look i really need someone to help me out here.
According to the article the system will be launching with a price of 499EUROS/599EUROS and also 499USD/599USD.
Err? excuse me? If i want a cheaper console, what's to stop me buying my console in America? Err...hello? there is almost a £100 price difference in the exchange rates between Euros and Dollars
And don't even get me started on that whole 'fewer features on the cheaper system' thing.
I would almost suggest that this is Sony herding people into buying the better verision of the package, but I can't be sure as it looks like 1up was slashdotted. HeeHee.
>>>Scanning for I.D.I.O.T.S. >>>
>>>I.D.I.O.T.S. FOUND! >>>
Strange that the 2 questions I care about most are unanswered so far.
1/ How are the NOISE LEVELS on this thing? I am looking to replace my settop CD/DVD player with a CD/DVD+bluray player, but if it sounds like a jet taking off.. OK with gaming I suppose that it needs to be cooled, but 'just' playing back some media needs to be quiet, both cooling-wise and optical-drive-whirring-wise.
2/ It must run LINUX. There are plenty of rumours that it does, but snapping back to my 'set top mediacenter' (CD/DVD/BR/etc).. I need it to play HD-DVD avi.. eh.. trailers, yeah, that's it.. trailers..
I think the Digital out is a S/PDIF for audio only. One thing about the HDMI - doesn't Blu-ray movies require it to be played in full HD-resolution? Because of the rights management? So the cheaper PS3 could only play them nonHD?
No, if you think back there wsa a story where Sony was going to publish movies so that you didn't need to have HDMI to play at full res - now you know why.
You can do 1080p over component cables. I've done that from a Dish HD receiver, and the PS2 supported 720p over the component output.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You better check those specs again. The base PS3 isn't "Feature complete"
The $499 base unit does not have HDMI out, does not have memory stick ports, and does not have 802.11b/g wireless.
Well it's lacking a toaster and a heat seeking missile emplacement, but you won't see me crying!!!
Which of those "features" is really needed to play games? The memory stick ports? I thought that's what the freaking hard drive was for! And you can push 1080p over component cables.
Remember that as gamers, what we should be interested in is playing games. Sony has done the right thing by making a system that is basic for basic gaming needs, and a more advanced model for those that might want a sort of HTPC or do online gaming a bit easier (with wireless). If anything we should be wondering about the lack of focus in the high-end system, not berating them for removing usless features not really needed for single player games.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
...which means that once DRM gets implemented, you don't get the full HD resolution that Blu-Ray is capable of..
No, with the majority of Blu-Ray players in the market being unable to play the DRM'ed discs properly, it means that no studio dare turn on the DRM. You are putting the chicken before the egg.
Now perhaps everyone will understand why Sony said they were going to produce discs without the resolution lockdown.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
100 more than microsoft's most expensive model? Gee a parousal at http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000B43OY4/ref=cm _lm_fullview_prod_1/002-0494354-3012017?_encoding= UTF8&v=glance&n=468642 indicates a price of 570.00. 30 dollars seems a tad closer than 100.
FUD? Oh yes. Lotsa FUD.
Sony are not. NOT. pushing 1080p down that component cable, however. You need the more expensive model to play at 1080p.
Also, you need the more expensive model if you want to transfer any data off the hard drive (like the £50 worth of SingStar songs I'll probably want, along with all my saved gamestates) in order to either upgrade it or send it back when it breaks.
Personally, I can live with the lack of wireless today, because my router is about 2 feet from my PS2. But that will change if I switch from cable to ADSL, and I plan to.
All in all, this is far worse than the 360 Core situation, where I'm just saving money in the short run by not getting optional bits (mainly the hard drive) that I might want to buy later. If you buy the shite version of the PS3 now, you need to start everything again from scratch (including re-buying all your downloads) if you want to upgrade.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
I don't know why the price is seemingly so out there. I blew way more than both of those models getting my 360 going. The only ones I could get ahold of at launch were the basic models. Add a harddrive, memory card, etc. Anyway, to get the xbox 360 I purchased to play original xbox games, and play on live it cost around $700 give, or take. To be honest, I still would consider not only the 360, but the PS3 as well to be a good deal. When I take into account what the PS3 can do, and compare that to the PC I use for gaming. Then compare the price I paid for the PC, ($1400, or so), and the PS3. I find that I'd rather pay the $500-$700 for a console than $1400 on a box to play games on.
Random note: I'm not referencing the Wii anywhere here; it isn't directly comparable given the completely different target audience/fanbase.
1: No arguement from me on this one. Hell, if you could get people to pay $2000 for it, why not charge that?
2: It doesn't matter if it sells on Ebay or in the stores. This isn't going to keep these things from selling on Ebay unless demand is so low that units can easily be found in stores -- at which point one could argue that they're asking price is too high.
3: Not quite that simple. If they announced a price of $400, people on the fence willing to buy one for $400 would wait until it launched. If they couldn't get one at launch, then MAYBE they MIGHT get a 360. Right now, people on the fence WILL be getting a 360. This drives more 360 sales sooner, increasing the 360 install base before the PS3 launches.
4: No arguement from me on this one from a business perspective. Assuming, of course, their price/demand ratio is correct.
5a: The PS3 doesn't have "9 cores". It has 1 hyperthreaded core and 7 SPU's. An SPU is not a "core" in the traditional sense; it is more analagous to a DSP or coprocessor, albiet a very fast one.
5b: The "cheap" Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player sells for $500. Given that game consoles make for craptastic players, "cheap" is the market range you should be considering. Compared to other blue-ray players, it is indeed cheaper. Still, not something I'd personally consider a huge checkmark in the win column (seriously, I want to play games on my game console; if I want to play movies I'd break out the 3D0).
6: People are complaining because it is a cheap knockoff of what Nintendo is doing. They're also complaining about Sony's hipocrasy (Sony ridiculed the Nintendo controller). It also removes the "dual-shock" (rumble) from the controller. Minor technical negatives for the removal of the rumble from the controller.
Linux: I hate to break it to you, but you'll never see Sony support it while they're losing money on each console they sell. And quite frankly, gamers don't give a crap about running Linux on their game console. They play games on their game console. People that want to run Linux on their game console are just looking for an inexpensive server/computer, which is a no-win situation for Sony.
Note to mods: how the hell can a post which is based on a "rumour going around" be labeled "5, Informative." There's no information here beyond the poster's bald assertion. I know Slashdot sometimes posts rumors as stories (e.g., Apple products), but come on. We don't even know the source of this rumor, so we can't even confirm it is a rumor!
Gran Turismo? Who said anything about car racing games?
Look, if you think Sony needs to die before Microsoft does then you have major reality issues.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Stuff the dumb consoles I just spent my money on a $500 Gainwood "Gold Sample" 512Mb 7900 GT which leaves these dumb consoles for dead, especially pumped through my projectors DVI port. Oblivion at 1024 x 768 on a 3 Metre screen at full detail and Anti Aliasing, this kicks ass. You enjoy your sad looking consoles now ya hear Mwuahhahahahaaaa. Ahhh... yes I do have green skin and a large axe. :-)
Sony has done the right thing by making a system that is basic for basic gaming needs
Yeah. Now if only we could get Dodge to make a basic viper...you know, one with a 3 speed transmission, crank windows, and a base price of only $82K.
Just like the criticisms on the Wii's silly name and crazy controller, no matter what kind of hardware the PS3 has - Be it ultra-super-cool magical fairy pixie dust-powered graphics that cause your TV to turn into a holographic projection unit, or just an update to the PS2, or something entirely different. The point is, GAMES. That's what a console is for. GAMES.
Can I repeat that last bit for clarity?
GAMES
You can nitpick all you want about Sony and their development process, just like a lot of people are dumping on Nintendo for their Wii, but in the end, the best-selling system will be the one with the games that people want to play. In recent history, Sony's all but dominated the console market (and not doing too badly on the handheld front) in great games that generate a lot of interest, a lot of replay value, and of course, a lot of sales. They've done it for two generations, and now we'll see if they can continue the trend.
If they can, my money's going to Sony. If not, I guess it'll go somewhere else. Whether that's Microsoft or Nintendo is yet to be seen.
Screw the rules, I have green hair!
Remember, Xbox 360s were selling for twice that on ebay. People will pay. People will buy. Everyone is predicting the "Wii" to win on price point alone. It didn't work for the Game Cube. You people have selective memories and a severe antisony problem
Honestly, was rumble ever really necessary? You'd rather have rumble (read: useless extra) features than "motion-sensing" controls?
This sounds AWESOME ... I mean all these feature just have me riveted ... I knew all along I was waiting for the right reasons!
It looks like this iteration of the "console wars" will be between two factions/
Faster, prettier, newer technology
v.
Innovative and unique gaming experience.
Two of the competitors are betting heavily on the first option, one is on the second. Sony just slipped back to the betting window just before race time to also put a little money on number 2.. just in case.. since the odds are heavy against it.
If what the Time article (sorry no link) said about Wii is right I might just buy one hoping for a Star Wars franchise game to come out so I can get some immersive light saber action in.
I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
was the lack of HDMI on the cheap model. Now this hasn't saved Sony any money - they've deliberately done this so if you want to guarantee HDTV playback, you have to stump up the extra money.
Now there may be a couple of reasons - they don't want to stop 3rd party BR players producing systems (you're not going to sell many if the PS3 has all the same features as your product for less), or it may just be they're taking such a bit on the low cost (?!?) machine they have to produce they're inventing reasons for those with the cash to upgrade.
I mean FFS, how much does a socket cost? A memory card reader? The difference in HD prices?
It just seems the 360 core system was OK, but the premium pack was worth the extra as you saved a load by buying stuff you'd probably get anyway upfront.
The PS3 basic pack just seems to be the full priced one, just deliberately hobbled to make you regret buying it. The bundled extras just don't justify the cost - you could go out and buy all the USB peripherals/upgrades yourself for less than the difference.
ohh Clam...
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http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=183531&thresh
Looks like the real numbers you speak of are actually imaginary and my rumored numbers are much more realistic.
Imagine that.
It's not that much better. The games will have to be stellar to justify that kind of price over the 360. Game over.
Not just screwed themselves in the games but this will hurt BD.
Wow, does their motion-sensing controller seem like a horrible idea.
First, they dismissed the Revolution controller as a gimmick. That's fine, their prerogative to do so and all that. But then shutting up about it for a while and announcing "Hey guys, our controller does that gimmick also!" makes it sound like a last-minute hack rather that the product of a conscious and reasoned set of design priorities.
Second, the Wii controller was designed from the ground up to "sense movement, allowing the player to move an onscreen avatar 'naturally'." The shape, the button placement, the flying dongle, all are part of that design. Sony seems to have just taken their standard two-handed controller and added motion sensors to it. I can't even imagine how you'd grab that controller and move it to swing a sword or aim and gun and have it seem 'natural.'
What most people seem to be missing is that no HDMI output means no Blu-ray movie support.
Movies need HDCP encryption which will only come on the PS3 through an HDMI socket.
So, unless you fork out the extra cash...
I eat Karma for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. That's why I don't have any.
Here's something a lot simpler: just goto your local Wal-mart, Target, Kmart, Best Buy, Circuit City, Meijer, EB Games, Babbages, Software Etc, Media Play, Toys R Us and pay $399 for the full version. And you get it that day to boot!!
that already made you millions. Sony should look at the success of the PS2, and keep the interface similiar. What happened to studies determining what is a good idea, and what isn't, and who the hell did they poll that wanted alot of these features. The rumble may not seem like much to some, but to alot it added more to the game (racing games, Socom, very helpful in baseball games in 2 player mode, and some games to let you know when you're player is fatigued).
That still doesn't make sense though, because they already have the digital signal. It would be surprising to me if they didn't make it available, even if that means re-using a connector to save money/generate additional accessories revenue.
If an additional 40GB hard disk, Memory Sticks, SD and Compact Flash cards, built-in Wi-Fi and HDMI output cost only $100 extra then what are the other costs of $499 associated with?
MGS3:Subsistance for the PS2 can use a USB keyboard and the PS3 will have USB ports so it seems likely.
The Xbox 360 has USB ports and the Final Fantasy Online beta for it can use a USB keyboard.
If the developer wants to add support for keyboard/mice then they can but it's unlikely they'd bother because the demand for it is low and it would unbalance some multiplayer games (such as FPS and RTS titles).
I believe the other secrets have been announced. I remember Iwata or Miyamoto mentioning that the secret had to do with the controller, and since then we've found out 2 things. The nunchaku with the analog stick will have accellerometers (sp?) and the wiimote will have a small speaker inside of it. I doubt there are many more secrets. The focus now is getting the media attention that MS and Sony have been so good at in the past.
Kent Simon Multitheft Auto
So, is it that there will be no HDMI support on the lower priced version or is it that there will only be single monitor HDMI?
It seems unreasonable to remove it completely from the less expensive unit and more likely that it would only have a single HDMI connection.
"Those are speed holes. They make the system go faster."
This, sir, is the crux of the argument I and no doubt many others use as a justification.
If company X will no longer sell product Y, why exactly is it evil to get it by other means? That's what I want to know and no pro-eternal-copyright nutcase has been willing or able to answer. I'm seriously willing to entertain arguments on why copying a 25 year old tape or ROM that hasn't been sold since the 1980s is such a dire threat to our impoverished entertainment industries.
I'd hold my breath waiting but suffocation really isn't a priority for me.
"Which of those "features" is really needed to play games?"
I just recently got an Xbox 360 as an upgrade from my PS2 for my Final Fantasy XI fix. Something I've noticed is that all of the differences between the core and the pro kits for the Xbox 360 can be bought separately if you really wanted to, so that even if you got the core kit, you can get yourself a wireless controller, hard drive and Live subscription later on and the only difference between the two will be the color of the drive tray.
But how are you going to easily add new inputs and outputs to the base PS3 system without making it look like a kludge? Odds are it's going to be nothing but a bunch of USB dongles for you if you get the base PS3, taking up shelf space and making your console look (and behave?) more and more like a PC.
"The memory stick ports? I thought that's what the freaking hard drive was for!"
We already know that the PS3 will not accept PS2/PS1 memory cards at all, and that transferring your old saves to play on the new system will require a dongle at least, to move your saves onto a memory stick. But if the base system doesn't even have that option, then that could seriously hurt launch sales. As I recall, the PS2 launch lineup wasn't spectacular, but people could still buy it at launch and use it as a PS1 replacement until good games came out. But this could guarantee that most players will need to keep out their PS2 alongside their PS3 to get their fix of older games, taking up shelf space, TV inputs, etc.
I have seven consoles hooked up to my TV right now. The Wii has the potential to replace 5 of my consoles at once (and I won't have the urge to get a TurboDuo, either, unless they don't bring out Rondo of Blood in the US). But unless there's a damned compelling reason to get one, the PS3 will replace nothing without spening even more money on accessories.
And before you try to say "Final Fantasy XIII," I'm patient enough there to wait for a price drop before I get it especially at those prices. Besides, I'll have Dragon Quest IX for my Wii.
"Remember that as gamers, what we should be interested in is playing games."
What, does "saving money" not enter into the calculus? Have you seen the price of gas lately?
"Sony has done the right thing by making a system that is basic for basic gaming needs,"
Except that their "basic needs" package is priced like the luxury packages from their major competitors. It's like saying the price point of a bare-bones Mercedes puts it in the same market as a Honda Civic. As somebody already pointed out, at the price they're charging for their basic kit, I can get the luxury kits from either Microsoft and Nintendo and get actual games along with it, which, as you say, is all that we should really be interested in.
You know, I'm a bit surprised that anyone is upset that the rumble is missing in the PS3 controller. The first thing that a lot of people do when they play a game is turning the damn thing off. It's annoying, breaks your concentration and is used ad nausea. I have several third party controllers that do not have that feature installed and I have never even considered that it was an issue.
/.'ers are smart right ??? Why do we support all these companies with the consoles ?? Don't we all have computers already ?? what happened to running games that looked good... you know.. at 1600x1200... or something.. and with 24" panels available, on your desk, 2 feet from your face, I don't buy the argument that you have to get a console to run it on your TV.... besides most new TV's do DVI anyway... All I know is I'm pissed off, I have a perfectly good PC, and there are few if any good games for it, because everyone is jumping on this stupid console bandwagon and supporting all the corporate crap out there that sees the console as a way to force people to buy yet another device for their house (or 2 or 3 if you want all the different games) ...
$599 for something that ONLY plays games that you can't upgrade as time goes on ?!?!??!?!
makes me sick !
I've only skimmed through about half the comments, but I keep seeing the mention of a price drop several months after release. Are you crazy? Sure, a price drop from whatever it flies up to based on shortages, but not from the base $500 or $600. Sony, even at these prices, will sell the PS3 AT A LOSS. As such, you won't see a price drop until the cost of manufacture drops to at or below the current price point, possibly well below.
So no, the average Joe will not be buying the PS3 for quite a while.
You think that's bad? I expect that to translate pretty much directly to £499/£599 over here.
I just bought a Seagate 250gb Barracuda for $95. A 60gb hd isn't even worth owning anymore much less a 20gb.
http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200604/N06. 0427.1154.38678.htm - Near the bottom
GI: It's been rumored that the new big Revolution secret is the fact that the nun chuck controller is also motion detecting...
Nintendo of America's Public Relations Manager Matt Atwood: Really. That's interesting. I would say 9:30 in the morning on Tuesday of E3 will be filled with surprises and I would just show up. Because there's been a ton of speculation. Some of it's right. Some of it's not. We'd say that if that's the only secret you're expecting you're going to be very surprised.
I think whatever the big secret may be is still securly under wraps. After all, the controller was a complete surprise when it hit. I have a feeling whatever the big surprise is, it hasn't been leaked. Whether anyone else outside of N thinks its that awesome is up for debate.
The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe.
Right, just like Nintendo dominates the current generation of consoles by pricing the GameCube below the competition.
I remember playing with one at a CES in Chicago many many years ago. It worked fine but our first question was, can we turn it off? It was just lame.
Okay. I have to admit that while I had heard about the nunchuck accellerometers, I did not know that they announced a small speaker in the Wiimote.
Now that I know about it, I'm even more excited though... why? Well, hopefully Nintendo will be using the speaker the same way that Logitech did in their "iFeel" mouse. The mouse came and went many years ago, but was still cool though completely unsupported. The speaker in it was used to give tactile feedback as you moused over buttons and desktop items. By modulating low frequency sounds, they were able to generate quite a few physical textures. In my opinion, this feedback scheme produces much more natural feedback than the basic rumbling that console controllers use today.
This technology would also play excellently into the wiimote strategy -- using bits of tech that are not new in themselves, but have never before been brought together and well supported in a single device.
Wasn't there something about the Revolution having a fancy displacement mapping 3D graphics scheme? (link) Whatever happened to that?
The way I see it, if the Bluray drive is worth 200$ then that puts the two systems on even footing at 299 and 399. Both Xbox360s do not have a HDMI port, but you can get a cable from third party vendors, I don't know about first party. I am sure that sony will do the same so as not to cripple the Bluray player. I think that sony will sell out there supply within the first 5 months. 6mill/~5months. launching it in Japan a week earlier will get them off to a good start and might encourage sales in the US. I hope that Nintendo has a solid plan outside of the controller my wife and I always love playing the group/family games than any of the other systems. Right now we will just stick with WoW at least through the expansion that takes up so much time we haven'y played any console in awhile. I think it would be good if all three companies did well in the market, in the end it would force them to lower prices and make some great games.
I think the true gauge of the battle will be Holiday season 2007, all three systems should be in full swing and picture will be a lot clearer.
One question do the EA games for the 360 have the "footwork" stuff, all I remember about the 360 launch was the sweat on the guys faces?
"If you like Battlestar Galactica, you're probably a huge nerd." -Stephen Colbert
Well, I have the opposite problem. The PS2 controller I can use for hours without a problem.
The GameCube controller has an edge on the underside in the wrong place, and wears a blister onto one of my fingers.
I also don't like the looser feel of the analog stick on the GameCube.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
I'm obviously behind the curbe on this one (600+ comments is too much to read) but I feel the same urges all of you do to register my oh-so-significant $0.02 ($0.03 Canadian).
While I'm unimpressed that sony is this far delayed to release what is the same controller plus bluetooth/wireless and a motion sensor, and a very bland looking console (subtle spiderman plug in the font not withstanding). But the guts should make it worth the wait. And hopefully the delay has allowed more dev's to get more launch games ready.
Having said all that - all I hear is the whining from all sides that they copied Nintendo with the gyro controller. Yes - they put the same ingenius functionality in their controller as their competition did. It will only be a matter of time before Microsoft does the same thing on their 5th re-release of a controller.
Guess what? in the business of consumer electronics - EVERYONE copies EVERYONE. Whatever is selling - that's what people want a piece of. It's stupid to deny the opportunity to make money and satisfy an obvious consumer want for what? Honor? Respect? So some nintendo fanboys get defensive that their precious gyro controller has been mimicked. Big deal - I'm sure nintendo has done their share of ripping off ideas.
As Scott at vgcats said so eloquently - "I go where the games are" - I have had the 3 majors in my AV rack for the past 3 years and love them all equally. But if I had to choose one console to sell to EBGames to buy my sister a PS2 and Guitar Hero last week - totally losing the Xbox. Hypothetically speaking of course.
In short - stop arguing about the inconsequentials. When the system debuts and there are real hard facts about "this sucks" or "this rocks" then, and only then, should I here complaints of "it's too expensive" or "360 is totally the bett0rz! Cereally!"
Really, I was at BestBuy yesterday, saw the premium bundle for $399 You can buy them right now, at walmart, bestbuy, etc for 399!!! You are the one spreading FUD
~nate
The talk of some magical graphics tech that Nintendo will release upon the world was mostly people trying to come to grips with the fact that Nintendo isn't playing the my-cock-is-higher-resolution-than-your-cock anymore. While the Wii's games will look just fine in their own right, I doubt there will be anything magical that will make them on par with the other consoles.
Unless, of course.... About 8 years ago, Nintendo ran a contest in Nintendo Power inviting readers to design a future Nintendo console. The winner was a small ring that you'd put on your finger that would knock you out and let you play games in your sleep. Maybe that's the final secret! You insert the Wii controller (into an orifice of your choice), bash your head against the wall until you pass out, and then dream happy gaming dreams. That'd be awesome.
Graphics aside, I think its a gameplay-related secret. The best news to me would be a $150 price point, but I'd buy a Wii even at $400 without so much as a second thought.
Honestly, was rumble ever really necessary? You'd rather have rumble (read: useless extra) features than "motion-sensing" (read: useles extra) controls?
Fixed that for you.
Personally, I agree with you. But it seems to be a big deal to a lot of people. I don't get why, but people are allowed to have different opinions than me.
The ironic thing is the CAD and USD haven't been this close on the money markets in decades. Canadain vs. US pricing don't really seem to be based on exchange rates.
Beyond racing games there aren't any situations where this controller is leaping out and attacking me with Perfection, but the truth is that it's a lot more subtle than the Wii, and so probably will result in a more diverse set of games, a few dozen of which will use the tilt to great effect. The tilt is "there if you need it", the Wii-stick is "all you can expect the gamer to have" - barring some sort of original-DualShock controller redesign.
And by "more subtle" you mean "less useful." Look, if you're going to be waving your controller around for whatever reason, it ought to be comfortable to do so. The Wii is, while a Dual Shock by its two-handed nature is not. You're also discounting two things. First, you're not giving developers enough credit. I contend that diversity is much more likely with the Wii interface than with a rehash of the Dual Shock simply because you can do more with it. Second, you're not taking the controller's expansion capabilities into account. Nintendo has already said that GameCube controllers will work with Wii, and the Wiimote has a slot for expansion built in. A DualShock shell would be quite easy to implement, similar to IGN's gamecube cradle mockup, so a redesign isn't necessary.
In the end, personally, the Wii isn't getting my money no matter how cheap it is. $300 for dogshit is still paying money for dogshit.
You are of course welcome to your opinion, but I don't understand why you're so quick to write off Nintendo.
-f
Your brain is not a computer.
That can't really be considered a pro since none of the current games they are showing proves that.
"Hi-def"
That can't really be considered a pro solely in its favor with the Xbox (as you mentioned) having the same capability. There won't be any 1080p games on this set of consoles. Maybe a Pong remake could run at that res.
"Massive back catalog of PS1 and PS2 games"
I never understood this. I buy new systems to play new games. Granted I may feel a bit nostalgic every now and then but I would rather plug in my old system than have Sony, MS or whomever put all this time and money into making games BC when it could be used in a more productive manner...like in the 360's case, giving it a quieter DVD drive.
So far that means only one Pro which is still up in the air. Great Job SONY!! This extra year you got is real evident.
Because there really are no great game on the PC. Last one was Oblivion, and that kicked my computer's nads.
I wonder how many people are going to remember that after the RootKit(TM) they were going to boycott?
Say bad words about my book, in cold oatmeal, or I shall sue!
Come Xmas time, Moms and Dads all around America will be weighing in the options...
Playstation 3, or a tank of gas.
Tank of gas wins... Sorry kids.
PS3 for $600?! It better come with solid gold dual shock controllers.
Sony has some nerve as a company. Consider this on launch day, you will be forced to buy them in bundles with 3 games and an extra controller for $1000
How much with the PS3 be in Japan? Is the price compariable to the US price or are they just using the old US as a cash battery again?
I'll grant that there are very few games that use Rumble well, but those that do use it well enough that I absolutely would rather have Rumble.
(See: any of the Silent Hill line (except 4, when they broke down and added a health bar...), Shadow of the Colossus)
Yawn... Yeah, I think I'll wait for the PS4 or hopefully they will be a bit more revolusionary and daring and decide to bring out a newer,better product than the aging playstation platform. Even if they brand the new one under a completely new name - they can call it X1 for all I care. But as an old fan of Sony products and owner of both PS1 and PS2, I have in the last couple of years decided to move away from most Sony products because of their lack of vision and just plain bad quality.All of a sudden I find my house full of other high-quality products that is NOT Sony. And I believe that they lost the plot somewhere. Hell, I was eagerly awaiting the PS3, but think I might look in to the Wii-volution now. Here's my reasons for not liking the PS3: 1. Blueray? That's like using UDM.That's why I don't have PSP. I wanted one before they came out though.. 2. Price? You gotta be kidding me. If I want to pay ONLY $500 instead of $600 I don't want to give up half of the cool features! And $600 is too much. I'll pass. 3. New Controller? Why not offer a choice? Either you have the motion thingy or rumble.Well, Not so sure about nose-diving a controller that you have to grasp with both hands anyway...Cool idea, but bad implementation. 4. Blueray again! Damn man! It sucks.I know Sony wants to sell more movies and expensive games and shit, but damn! And another small niggle that some people will most likely disagree with me on, but Backwards compatible? I don't care about that. Make the games better and I will NEVER play my old games again.Or I will use my old PS2 if I really want to play my PS2 games again.
contradicts everything else you say. The X360 is easier to develop for. Even these PS3 games weren't really ready, and there's only half a year left. I know we'll only get the ps3 equivalent of Bandit's Run for launch titles anyway - but long-term PS3's game will be harder or impossible to port. MS can always release a motion sensing controller at a later date (which I assumed Sony and MS would anyway) but Sony can't change from the Cell.
I'm shocked that hard drives are standard equipment. Looks like MS bet wrong in that direction.
And I just wanted to say, I don't see backwards compatibility being a big deal for PS3. There are so many sequels and so few original role-playing games on all the systems, I can't see it being a major selling point. Whereas, on the PS2, I was still working through classic squaresoft titles like FF7,8,9 and Tactics, there just isn't a compelling reason for backwards compatibility - especially when we start viewing everything on HDTVs. Yes, it would be cool to see GT4 on the big screen, but not $600 good.
FUD indeed.
The rest of us are talking about *list price*. The 360 sold for more than $400 in the first few months, and you can bet your ass the PS3 will sell for more than $600 in the first few months... that's the nature of the beast. It happened with the PS2 and original Xbox as well, remember? Or is your memory that short?
List price is the price that Microsoft/Sony says it should sell for. Stores can choose to sell it for whatever price they want in whatever bundles they want... that's how the free market works.
If you truly don't know the difference between list price and street price, you really shouldn't be commenting on this issue at all. Seriously. I don't expect Slashdot posters to have a PHD in economics or anything, but that's pretty damned basic.
Also, ignore Amazon. You can walk into a Costco or Best Buy right now this instant and get a 360 off-the-shelf for $400 no problem.
Comment of the year
Personally, I find that anything over $300 for a console to be far too excessive, especially considering that the gap between "PC"s and console video power has shrunk considerably. Video power/decent graphics coupled with "console style" and arcade game ports used to be the major strengths of game console, along with the ability to, usually, have them be relatively portable, i.e. you only have to carry around what used to be a power cord the console and a couple of games which was pluggable into any TV.
As to being able to play music and movies, big deal, I've got notebooks that I carry around now that do both FAR better than any console seen to date, and I certainly don't expect to be using the console for anything other than gaming.
As to games: well, at least Sony and Nintendo have still been producing/sponsoring/etc. mainly "console style" games, e.g. Final Fantasy XYZ, Zelda blah blah blah, etc. while the XBOX has been hijacking "PC" games onto the XBOX which I just don't care for, especially when the "PC" version is ported FROM the XBOX version along with all the limitations that the game had to have added just to run adequately on a low-end-relative-to-pc platform, i.e. memory, storage, input, etc. restrictions.
For $5-600 I can build a "PC" that WILL blow the doors off of the XBOX360 wrt base CPU/GPU power RAM, and storage, not to mention that if components are carefully selected, e.g. motherboard, the system will be further upgradeable as newer GPUs & CPUs appear furthering the performance/utility gap between the console and the PC while, at least in the XBOX's case being able to play pretty much all of the same games.
Overall, I find that console manufacturers seem to be losing sight of exactly what kind of product they are producing, or at least to me, as it will take one hell of a killer game to entice me into plunking down $500 or even $600 on a console. Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior just aren't going to be able to do that with those pricing schemes any longer, although I'd hazard that Nintendo and Sony stand a better chance of producing a game that might eventually entice me into a purchase, although I rather doubt it. M$ and the XBOX stand a zero chance.
Also of note is that the introduction of differing versions of console begins to restrict what was also one of the main strengths of consoles, which I neglected to mention above. This being platform uniformity, which allowed productionof relatively bug/glitch free games, although this too has been waning as consoles increase in complexity...
They stole the rumble from N.
They stole the analog stick from N.
Now they steal the gyro from N.
Sony hasn't come up with an original idea that has worked yet.
All their original ideas have been a massive failure. Blu-Ray will be the next one.
Because PC games suck compared to console games? Aside from first person shooters and RTSs, there aren't any PC games worth playing.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
right... that's my point...
... and all the companies that make the consoles have their own proprietary games......middle america... eats it up...
there used to be good games for PCs...
and nobody seems to be asking the question: "I have a computer already... why doesn't anyone make games for it ???" or should I say demanding that game manufactures make the games by not buying the console versions....
we are shooting ourselves in the foot... by buying games and supporting the console paradigm WE are the cause of no good games for the PC !!... and we are condemming ourselves to hand over our hard earned $$$ to console manufactures year after year...
the whole thing makes me very very sad
Understandable reaction, but a bit daft. Sony is a weird entity and it is huge.
Sony MUSIC needs to be plowed under, badly, yesterday. SCEE has never really wronged me in any significant way, other than putting crap lasers in the original PS2. I don't punish the Xbox team for Windows DRM, or IE6 security flaws. Stop buying Sony Music CDs and you get the message across. Stop buying Sony altogether and they don't know what the reason is. To each his own of course.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Sony are not. NOT. pushing 1080p down that component cable, however. You need the more expensive model to play at 1080p.
Are you sure? I know I've personally run 1080i out through component cables, and believe I've read about 1080p also over component (not much of a stretch).
Also, you need the more expensive model if you want to transfer any data off the hard drive (like the £50 worth of SingStar songs I'll probably want, along with all my saved gamestates) in order to either upgrade it or send it back when it breaks.
I'm not sure that will be totally true if USB devices can be used for transfer as well.
All in all, this is far worse than the 360 Core situation, where I'm just saving money in the short run by not getting optional bits (mainly the hard drive) that I might want to buy later...
I don't see in any way how it can be worse, when a developer for the 360 cannot assume the presence of a hard drive and a PS3 developer can. That's a pretty huge difference as far as actual game features and design go - the things you mention are nice from a media management standpoint but again if you can also transfer over USB (or possibly even to a shared network drive) then the card slots you loose are just anoother way to transfer data, ones you may not need.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I have read ona few sites for several months that there is a shortage of the "Driver" chip for HDMI output. that is why we have seen no graphics cards from ATI or Nvidia with HDMI out and now it is occurring to me that is why the xbox360 launched without HDMI and their HD-DVD add on will also not have HDMI out (I think?).
The HDMi chip shortage must be pretty serious, I can now see why Sony did a model without it, or else there might only be 10's or 100's of thousands of console available at launch.
Can anyone remember the fate of some of the most expensive systems to come out? 3d0? $700, major flop. I find it in a used game store 4 years later for $30. Neo-geo? $650 with a game, 2 controllers, and a memory card. I have never even seen a Neo-geo in person.
Agreed, I was hard pressed to even consider recommending a Sony laptop to my (ex)girlfriend a couple of months ago due to the whole root-kit incident. I know it will take a lot to get me to buy anything else Sony branded for a long time. (Hell, I'm not even sure I feel okay using the Sony stuff I already own.)
Except for FPS, RTS, MMORPG, FS, and racing games, consoles really rip it up! All of those cartoon platformers and sports games are badass!
The D-pad, shoulder buttons, and four standard buttons are pressure sensitive.
Only L3, R3 (the "screw up your direction" buttons), start, select, and the analog-enable switch are not encoded as 8-bit variable buttons.
It's the reason that, say, this pad claims 12 pressure-sensitive buttons and this write-up on wikipedia says that all of the buttons except the aforementioned buttons are pressure-sensitive. They're admittedly hard to press lightly, but they're pressure sensitive.
Yes i have this mouse :) It was mostly unsupported, but it is really quite cool in Tribes2, you can feel the rumble of your jetpack when you use it. I believe Serious Sam also supported this mouse. Definitely brought some of the console benefits to the precise gameplay that you get with keyboard and mouse.
Kent Simon Multitheft Auto
" It happened with the PS2 and original Xbox as well, remember? Or is your memory that short?"
I paid 299.00 for my ps2 on launch day - Sony Metereon SF. Poor little FUD. The haters do like using it don't they?
Granted, most of your choices are racing or sports games, but that's largely the case on a console, too.
So why aren't games such as Secret of Mana, Guitar Hero, two-player "tris" games (other than Microsoft's Tetris 3.1), and the like ported to PC more often? And why hasn't Bomberman for PC seen an update in the last 9 years? And why did Dance Dance Revolution for PC stop at 3rd Mix when the consoles are up to 9th Mix? And where's the Mario Party knockoff for PC like there were for PS1, PS2, and Xbox?
most fighters aren't ported to the PC
Why not? By refusing to port their products to the PC, SNK, Capcom, and other publishers of 1on1 fighting games are leaving themselves open to widespread thef^W pira^W copyright infringement of their games through ROM sites.
And you could have bought an Xbox 360 at list price on launch day. For instance, my local Fred Meyer here in western Washington got 34 360s to sell, and they didn't have any kind of bundle or pre-order requirement that the Gamestops and Best Buys of the world did. If you were in line there at midnight, you'd have bought a 360 at list on launch day. In fact, I missed one at a local Target by only 5 minutes... damn me and my sleeping through the alarm.
However, that doesn't mean that Xbox 360 you just bought at list is *worth* list. You could have turned around and sold it at $550 or more easily. Your PS2 wasn't worth list after you bought it, it was worth quite a bit more... I saw the lines to get them on the news.
And, of course, you're ignoring all of my other points to instead refute a mostly pointless example. My main point is the same whether or not the example applies.
Comment of the year
re:"Also, ignore Amazon"
Also - ignore that man behind the curtain - pay them no mind - my version of reality is bright and shiney! OMG! Ponies!
Instead of getting an Xbox 360 or a PS3, I'm going to buy a PS2 this week. The price just dropped to $129 CAN. There are plenty of used games on the market. There are many reduced priced titles (since they're best-sellers). And I won't have to pay $69.95 + per game.
By "Microsoft's most expensive model" I think they mean the one that Microsoft produces for $399 and NOT the bundles that businesses sell, or marked up auctions... because everyone knows that Sony isn't quoting prices for a bundle.
I thought Assassin's Creed was hitting the PC as well(I remember reading that somewhere, may be rumor, meh). That would imply an eventual 360 port.
It's a traditional-style ubi game, so, I doubt any exclusivity is permanent.
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
ya know when little kids play video games and they move the controller all around thinking that it'll affect their character's motion? or when people go bowling and they lean their entire body over after they throw the ball in hopes that their unrelated motion will curve the ball to where they want it? that's pretty much exactly how it's going to look playing a PS3 *applause*
and you do the best you can. Being a software developer, this is the tool of my trade. I couldn't support my family without it. That said, I can still make choices to limit my impact. Not buying a PS3 is one of them. Squeezing 5 years out of a computer is another (and after reading that article, believe me, I'm going to be even more miserly). Riding my bike to work instead of driving is yet another.
Besides, I wouldn't call the device that allowed me to read about Congolese slave mines and research the Congo Wars entirely frivolous. More and more, it's a necessity for an informed citizen. You definitely can't say that about a Playstation.
Dude, read the article. It's the most horrendous real thing I've read in a long time.
Now, the PS3 is double the PS2 launch price.
You have to remember that a) US prices don't include tax, whereas Australian prices do, and b) we're not in North America. In fact, the Sony guy lumped Australasia in with Europe, at a price of 499-599 euros.
Allowing for the tax differences, expect about AUD$799 for the base model, and $949 for the full banana. This lines up nicely with the Xbox 360 prices over here (AUD$499 and $649). Add a $79 second controller and a couple of $110 games, that's $1248. Too rich for my blood.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
I agree with you that they should really just have kept quiet about it a bit longer, since it suffers in comparison. Personally, I'd rather have the missing rumble back.
All this is largely beside the point, though. People will forgive a lot if the price is right, but if you price yourself over the norm, then perfection will be demanded, and any slight lack will be seized upon regardless of the features or overall value.
Basically, Sony may have significantly misjudged the Western market's price tolerance, and might as a consequence lose their lead in most of their markets (not Japan, of course).
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Stupid Corporates, is australia delayed by 1000 days?
Shipping time from Singapore is shorter, and flight time for 2 747s worth of 25000 consoles is trivial, but will they do it?
No!!!
They are lame assholes. Money talks, ie bribary talks, if you wont cush up 6* hotels and hoockers to the sales
managers, they wont deliver.
Sony's PS2 only was good because of sooo much hype, they were lucky with PS1, they had to be, it was their first shot
they had to doooo their best, and psygnosis coders helped them, after all, ex-amiga dudes, not long after amiga died.
Now its 2006 and well, 10 years after amiga died, a new world.
Price wise - electronics is supposed to be cheaper, not more.\\
A $600PC in 1996 only did so much, a $600 PC in 2006 does so much more. So do the comparison of silicon to a console.
If you want mass sale from students and tenners parents, price it right, ie no more than 3 weeks of 20% weekly wages added up.
Inflation may be at X, but wages growth has been at 1/2 inflation for most common folk, except professionals, which can afford
all 3 systems.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I bet its a webcam 640x CCD in the controller.
Each player has a live link to the system at 15fps.
If eye toy is so popular , imaging it inside each controller, and CCD/webcams are dirt cheap now.
What else could you possibly think of thats cheap and cool and visible?
unless it prints US dollar bills , nothing.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Think back to 1999 when Sony announced the PS2. You were on a Pentium 2 using a 28.8 modem renting VHS tapes at Blockbuster. You have to remember that consoles have an extremely long life span for a consumer electronic product. You have to "future proof" it with extremely new and expensive technology, aka Cell and BRay.
DVD players cost $1000 when PS2 first came out, much like BRay now. The Cell will someday run your refrigerator, but for now its very expensive.
The price will come down quickly and XBox homers will be out spending hundreds on an external HDDVD (or BRay someday..) drive.
AU$830 / $999. Ouch.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?