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Apple Sics Lawyers on SomethingAwful
bheer writes "Apple has sent a threatening letter to SomethingAwful about a post in its forums that describes how to fix the overheating in some MacBook Pros by applying thermal paste properly, according to a post on Gizmodo. The post includes a brief excerpt from Apple's Service Source Manual which Apple wants removed. Gizmodo continues: 'the real problem [is] that the image shows the extremely sloppy manufacturing process that is causing the MacBook Pro to run at temperatures as high as a 95 degrees Celcius under full load.'"
As I understand it, Apple is only requesting that the page from Apple's copyrighted manual be removed, not the article itself.
I don't know whether fair use applies, but this hardly seems worthy of a Slashdot article. Heck, C-SPAN requesting removal of the recent Colbert video from YouTube (after 500,000+ downloads) on copyright grounds is more deserving of an article.
Oh, wait, it's Apple being accused of something nasty.... that explained it.
The post includes a brief excerpt from Apple's Service Source Manual which Apple wants removed. Gizmodo continues: 'the real problem [is] that the image shows the extremely sloppy manufacturing process that is causing the MacBook Pro to run at temperatures as high as a 95 degrees Celcius under full load.
No, that's not the "real problem". Apple goes after anyone, anywhere, that ever posts or reproduces anything from their service manuals, which it considers proprietary, in whole or in part. It doesn't matter what circumstances in which this was posted: Apple would have gone after them, regardless.
Also, the service manual doesn't represent the "manufacturing process". It represents service instructions for service technicians.
However, all of that aside, Apple applies a stunningly ridiculous and inappropriate amount of thermal paste to the CPU and GPU in the MacBook Pro. It apparently does this both in the manufacturing process and the service process - the description and pictures of about ten times the amount of thermal paste than should actually be applied in the service manual only underscores the magnitude of the mistake. For those who might not be aware, thermal paste is not a case of "the more, the better": after a point, it fails to transfer heat, and the heat gets dissipated in an uncontrolled and unintended - and potentially damaging - way. And that's what's happening in the MacBook Pro. When a proper amount of thermal paste is applied, the MacBook Pro runs MUCH cooler, with heat actually transferring to the heatpipe, and the fans turning on when necessary, resulting in a massive drop in operating temperature (not to mention feeling like you're using a small campfire on your lap).
Inevitable Apple bashing aside, I'm actually quite surprised that, given its attention to detail, no one at Apple in any of its product design, engineering, manufacturing, or service operations, nor anyone at Asustek (the contractor that manufactures the MacBook Pro), realized that this is an utterly stupid amount of paste to be applying. I'm just dumbfounded that this made it through whatever QA is in place (and, again, Apple bashing and first revision products aside, keep in mind that Apple has the BEST QA and least need for service across the entire industry, consistently, and has for years, according to consumer reporting and tracking organizations like Consumer Reports).
In any case, Apple also hasn't commented or acknowledged this because it NEVER does so until there is a fix in place (or when it knows a specific fix is already in the pipeline). And yes, it is a "simple" fix, but as anyone who understands a complicated manufacturing process knows, it can take a while to implement any change.
In any event, because (regardless of what anyone may or may not say) Apple is the best in terms of responding to and remedying these kinds of problems when compared to other vendors[1], I have no doubt this will be resolved. I do hope Apple provides a free process for current owners to have this problem resolved at any Apple service facility.
[1] In other words, if anyone is going to say "Apple sucks" on this front, 1.) anyone can come up with service or product nightmare anecdotes from any vendor, and 2.) all other vendors are worse in all categories, if you accept Consumer Reports' rating processes.
Problem solved. Why is this such a big deal?
I keep referring to them as being run by a turtlenecked sociopath. This behavior, suing anyone they don't like, control freakery and related things that make you want to scream 'cult' at the top of your lungs comes from one place.
They are banking bad karma at a terrifying rate, and as soon as cracks appear in their fashion-oriented views of computing, they are going to fall. Hard.
-Charlie
Perhaps Apple is embarrased by this, but the behavior doesn't really offer proof. Apple has send Cease and Desist letters to sites posting service manuals and images out of service manuals many times before.
Hyperbole is the worst thing ever.
The thread in question:= &threadid=1864582
h readid=1867138
:)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s
Lowtax's response:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?t
Posted anonymously to avoid accusations of karma whoring
Let me save everyone the trouble...
Apple is acting like Apple always does... like an asshole. They are caught out in a fairly major QA problem and trying to lawyer their way around it. Same as every other large company. Mac fanbois will of course totally defend their noble defense of their 'intellectual property' even though this case is a textbook example of fair use. The fanbois will also 'like totally defend the quality of Apple hardware against that Dell crap.' And while they have cause for that in general it will stink of slavish devotion because of just how busted Apple is on this case.
That 'bout cover everything?
Democrat delenda est
Unauthorized reprint of a manual. A take down notice due to valid infringement? Not much to see here.. Sounds to me like someone wants to bash apple and is grasping at straws to do it.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
http://www.somethingawful.com/legal/
lose != loose
Color me stupid, but isn't a reduction of the case temperature a bad sign? Wouldn't you want the heat to be transferred away from the chip? The computer uses a certain amount of power, regardless of the way it's cooled. That energy is transformed into heat which must be removed. If the heat is transferred away from the CPU efficiently, you'd expect it to be where it can be removed from the system, i.e. the case or the air. A hot cooler is a sign of a good energy transport from the CPU to the cooling system. Making the cooler less hot without increasing the energy transport from the cooling system to the environment is bad.
... AMD vs. Intel heating/cooling jokes.
The problem is that Something Awful aren't hosting the picture, it is hosted by someone else elsewhere. Something Awful only have a link to the picture in a thread not the actual picture itself.
Why is it news everytime Somthing trivial regarding Apple happens. Not once have they come up with anything truely innovative that hasn't already been done (allbeit in a more shiny box I'm sure). They rape and pillage FOS software with little attribution.
What I'm trying to say is I'm sick of trivial apple stories all the time.
No, that's not the "real problem". Apple goes after anyone, anywhere, that ever posts or reproduces anything from their service manuals, which it considers proprietary, in whole or in part. It doesn't matter what circumstances in which this was posted: Apple would have gone after them, regardless.
It doesn't matter what Apple considers them, they should be published copyrighted material and governed by the rules that apply to such materials. As such, posting a one page excerpt out of a manual that must be several hundred pages ought to be considered "fair use", in particular given the purpose that it's being posted for.
No, TFA is right: Apple wants this information removed for the sole reason that it embarrasses them. Verbal acrobatics like "considers them proprietary" are just an attempt to hide that fact. In the end, Apple had two choices: tolerate it or send in their legal team, and they have chose the latter.
Apple is the best in terms of responding to and remedying these kinds of problems when compared to other vendors
Actually, when you look at surveys and analyses of service quality, Apple is in the top, but they are not always the best. My own experience with their service on a top-of-the-line Powerbook has been that they are trying, but that it may take them several tries to fix it.
I showed my father the service manual picture. He said (and I quote) "Holy moley! Nobody uses that much thermal grease!"
Yep, Apple fucked up this one.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
Now, about the first rev thing: why is it only Apple with these problems? you never hear anyone say "dont buy that Dell/HP/Lenovo, its a rev A, wait for the QC issues to be fixed in the rev b"
I thought that these problems werer because they were the only mass-PPC hardware vendor, but that is now de-bunked -- and on that note, no one at Intel evaluated a finidhed laptop?? God knows, as much as Apple throws the I-word around, you would think it is a partnership!
I saw the picture of their service manual on the SA forums. It's shows the guy putting an entire tube of thermal grease on an area that is around 1/2 square inch. So, after all is said and done in the manufacturing process, Macbook pro's probably have around four tubes of thermal grease in them. That really is insane. [b]One tube alone[/b] should be able to do three or four laptops.
g
I'm suprised the laptops didn't outright fail due to the heat.
If anyone is interested, here is what the parent poster is talking about:
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7541/lol1qe.jp
Dell's Service Manuals are available from their support website.
Dell Inspiron 6400/E1505 Service Manual
Couldn't they just provide a link to the Apple manuals online?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_un
I'm not really sure how to address your second point. It's either irrelevant, or Apple should be claiming SA divulged Trade Secrets.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Apple has a right to ask that is copyrighted material be removed. Just like Microsoft has a right to keep its office file formats closed. The problem is that both companies are acting like jackasses. But only Apple seems to get a free pass on Slashdot. I for one am sick of it.
I'm not saying the trick doesn't *work*, but the suggestion shows a poor understanding of how thermal heat sink paste works.
.25cc dollop of paste may help whatever overheating problem the fix seeks to address.
The paste itself isn't supposed to be a big gooey heatsink. It's supposed to fill the microscopic gaps between surfaces so that thermal transfer is maximized for a surface area.
Putting globs of heat sink paste here just makes an insulator. You should put a very tiny amount on the surface, and scrape off all but the thinnest possible layer. Any place where the copper of the heatsink can directly contact the surface of the chip, you should prefer that contact over any paste. Ideally you only want the paste where there are gaps. By "gaps" we're talking mainly about fractions of a micron.
That said, I admit that it is entirely possible that a big
Never respond to a letter threatening to sue you, until the letter actually gives the docket number of the pending suit. Until then, it might as well be the guys grocery list. When they describe the evidence that they plan to take to a judge, and they stipulate the precise section of law that they claim protects them, and when a court has accepted this proposal, only then do you respond to it, and even then, only in a manner which is consistent with the legal process and rules of evidence.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Nobody seems to be addressing the real issue here. As noted in Lowtax's post, what's ridiculous about this lawsuit is that Apple is taking legal action against SA for something that isn't even on their servers. All that is posted in the offending thread is a link to the service manual on someone else's webspace. Apple threatening SA and their ISP is absurd, they have done absolutely nothing wrong.
Link that works, with pic http://uk.gizmodo.com/2006/05/04/thermal_greasy_ap ple_sics_lawy.html
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
- Winston Churchill
is it ok to hate Apple now?
The way Apple behave is worst than Microsoft. I *was* going to buy an iBook, but no more. I won't support that kind of evil behavior.
Serious. Screw apple and their 'intellectual property' bullshit.
e nt/2010-1047_3-5611497.html
They are sueing their own customers! Nobody does that, not even Microsoft. And it's not like Apple hasn't been doing this before..
Putting DRM in their itunes products and then forcing a application that removes the DRM to be developed outside the United States.
Suing multiple websites and blogs for posting information about up and coming products. These are Apple's FANBOYS they are throwing lawyers at.
And now suing SomethingAwful??!! WTF are they thinking?
This goes to show you that between Microsoft and Apple desktops you should be happy that Microsoft won because Apple is worse then Bill Gates and friends... The only difference is that Apple is too small to cause much damage compared to Microsoft.
Seriously. Who do you think said this:
"The PC wars are over. Microsoft won a long time ago. If I were the head of Apple, I would milk the Mac for all it's worth and then move on the next big thing."
Steve Jobs, of course. And he was right, and is still right.
If your a Linux or *BSD user and somebody asks you why don't use just use OS X just point them at these links and remember that quote:
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/antislapp.html
http://news.com.com/Apple+lawsuit+Thinking+differ
Seriously. Do you want to want to give your money to a company that is trying to subvert the First Amendment of the U.S. constitution in the name of protecting their 'Trade secrets'?
I own a Ibook now, but I'll NEVER EVER BUY ANOTHER APPLE PRODUCT EVER AGAIN.
No itunes. No ipod. No Imac, powermac or any such nonsesense. Never again.
So, if I say anything bad about Apple computers, their crack (cocane) team of lawyers will sue me? Well, in that case, I think I'll do something to tick them off as well...
*stands on soap box* Apparently, their voice command program which requires the ESC key to toggle the microphone interferes with any vim commands that require you to escape back into command mode when you are using Darwin, Apple's version of xterm.
Come and get me you lawyer bastards!!!!
PS: Macs are ghey, eat babies, and kill kittens!
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
Apple is going to sue now that /. has a link to a page containing a link to the picture!
English is easier said than done.
The last time I was serviced with that much thermal paste it cost me 50 bucks and I was sore for a week.
Darn, both of them are so full of it, it is hard to choose one side.
Apple sure loves to cover their butt with lawsuits and silencing critics.... But considering the shit SomethingRetarded and its Tards do, I guess I will side with Apple.
GO APPLE!
The entire service manual is available online in various places (e.g. http://www.repairyourmac.com/macbook-pro.pdf). Why is Apple freaking out about a small excerpt in a forum? The simplest explanation is that they are embarrassed and are trying to cover it up.
Remember it as about a giant monochrome ego being challenged by a full color free spirit.
Its called marketing against type. The BW sealed Mac was the child of a Big Brother Ego that through expert marketing convinces people the lining up like robots makes them rebels.
PC owners == free to complain
Mac Owners == complaints are heresy
This is no surprise
What's Apple thinking? Something Awful gave the Ultimate Warrior's "Director of Communications" a flying elbow off the top turnbuckle when he threatened them with a lawsuit, does Apple think they can fair any better?
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON
Hey everyone, after reading through the comments, I'm thinking of adjusting the amount of thermal paste on my machine. Can anyone recommend a good way to remove the old grease? I don't want to leave anything on the heatsink, as I understand that could inhibit the flow of heat when I reuse the 'sink.
Thanks!
Yes, that should also be on Apples radar and be dealt with in the same manner.. Otherwise they are just covering their ass... ( or at least trying to )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Once again, people are ascribing to malice something that's more easily explained by stupidity. And in situations like this, corporations are profoundly stupid. Apple clearly has a policy that to hassle people who "steal" their IP. The only way to implement such a policy is to assign some low-ranking dweeb to cruise the web and look for this "stolen" IP. When he sees it, he fires off a C&D letter. He does not have the discretion to say "Oh, I should give them a pass, that's probably fair use."
You've obviously never worked in any private organization bigger than a little league team. If you had, you'd know that Apple, and all enterprises like it, have thousands of discretion-free low-level dweebs like the one just described. Ascribing some deeper purpose to such people is silly.
Wrong, it has *EVERYTHING* to do with fair use, as evidenced by the letter from Apple:
By playing the copyright card, Apple themselves are making this about copyright, and thus (by definition) fair use is a factor.
Note that NOWHERE in the letter that Apple sent, do they mention trade secrets (which is what you believe is going on here.)
Remove Apple's copyrighted picture and create a re-enactment picture using toothpaste or something awful like that.
Are you assuming the surfaces are perfectly flat? The reality of these machined items don't live in your simplified model of two smooth flat surfaces meeting up under pressure, sorry.
Fuck, man if don't want it fixed, just say so.
Stealing a photo from a commercial published work, and republishing it on a for-profit website is virtually never considered "Fair Use". I'll wager that the photo disappears due to the good advise of this guy's attorney.
I've been saying for years that Apple's hardware isn't some kind of super-special stuff that's worth so much more than comparable PC hardware. It's overpriced and pretty generic quality, it's the software that matters. And of course that gets all kinds of negative feedback from the fanboys.
That said, though, they're certainly not worse than average here.
you never hear anyone say "dont buy that Dell/HP/Lenovo, its a rev A, wait for the QC issues to be fixed in the rev b"
IBM (and it's still the same ex-IBM division making laptops for Lenovo) laptops have always been teh standard everyone else has to live up to, as far as I'm concerned. DEC... back when it was DEC before Compaqtion... had some great models too, but the Thinkpad is really #1.
HP? Dell? After Compaqtion when refresh time came around at work I wouldn't take a Dell or Compaq laptop, I stuck with an old old DEC, and when they switched suppliers to IBM I was so glad to get a Thinkpad.
Dell in particular is notorious for crappy kit. Had a big debate about this with our IT manager when we were using Dell, and later she came to me and said I was totally right. Never buy a Dell. You'll be sorry.
There's IBM, and all the rest.
I wish Apple would release OSX for generic PCs just so I could run it on a Thinkpad. Not only does it have the best keyboard on any laptop, but it's actually got two mouse buttons *and* my choice of trackpoint or touchpad. I'd pay $500 for the "Generic" version of OS X, no problem.
But I'm probably going to have to put up with a Macbook for a few years before they catch on.
Have they?
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
Ladies and Gentlemen,
After about three and a half years at Apple, I'll be departing to pursue new opportunities following the 2005 World Wide Developer Conference. I've enjoyed my time here, and expect to remain an Apple developer and be active in the Cocoa developer community for the foreseeable future.
I'd like to thank many people, chief among them being my fellow moderators, Malcolm, Scott, and Matt, for the great work they've done with the list, and also all of the Apple engineers who've helped us out so much with answers to developers' questions.
To Ali Ozer and all of the Cocoa team, Bill Bumgarner and the CoreData group, Matt Firlik and the Xcode team, John Geleynse and the Apple Evangelists, my colleagues on the WWDR SWAT team, my fellow DTS engineers, and all of my colleagues in Apple Worldwide Developer Relations: thanks for all the help! You're some of the best people I've ever worked with, and I do intend to keep in touch
As I move on from being an Apple engineer to once again being a customer and developer, I look forward to the business opportunities that Tiger makes possible, and I can't wait to see what Apple comes up with next!
-jcr
Releases fake trolling "reviews" under the lable "Truth Media", so that they can post "witty" responses to those morons who fell for it?
Yep, I *sooo* trust the source on this one! There is nooo way they would be spreading FUD or trying to fool us.
Sure, you don't want thermal paste over everything, but the CPU-to-pipe contact is 100%. You can't put too much thermal paste between two mating surfaces unless the surfaces can no longer properly mate due to containment - an impossibility in this design.
The real issue would be a failure to have 100% surface coverage of thermal paste, which would result localized hotspots on the CPU, leading to failure.
Someone needs to re-take thermodynamics, and shouldn't work in any business that has anything to do with heat transfer.
If you push something down onto thermal grease and it comes out the sides, you put WAY too much on.
Thermal grease is ONLY to smooth out imperfections in the surface. While it has reasonable temperature conductivity properties, it's still a lot worse than a straight metal-to-metal connection, partially due to the lack of electrical conductivity (and therefore, lower overall metal density). When spread appropriately, you should still see the surface of the thing you are coating, along with spots of the grease where the original topography fell below the base surface line (however slightly). Coat both surfaces like this, and you're golden.
Really, what you want is a tiny, tiny drop spread around by a squeegee-like straight edge, like a plastic credit card. Put a little too much on, and your temperatures will rise. Put as much on as it appears in the picture, and your temperatures will be through the roof.
The ______ Agenda
...published all its shop manuals for all its ThinkPads. I don't know whether Lenovo will continue this tradition or not, but I have my shop manual for my 600e and my 600x and my 365x. In glorious .PDF format. They are available for open download.
Apple is being retarded.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Well Rich is sure to make the most of the free publicity; the stupidty demonstrated by Apple lawyers is the kind of material on which he thrives. Apple is dealing with someone who has built his career on the art of savage ridicule. If you want to be mercilessly mocked on the World Wide Web then have a laywer send a letter to Lowtax.
So Apple's clownboat lawyers have just spawned a wave of Anti-Apple publicity. What might have been confined to SomethingAwful has now propagated to Gizmodo and Slashdot and will spread from there. And the lawyers have not only spread bad publicity about Apple, they are generating more of it themselves: Not only has Apple screwed up with heat sink grease, Apple has screwed up AND their lawyers are trying to cover it up. Apple would benefit from keeping a tighter reign on its lawyers; because they see only the legal aspects of any issue, they are prone to do great harm to Apple's public image in pursuit of insignificant legal points.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
that's what apple gets when they hire bakers and don't train them.
there, it's been said.
ps - apple needs to make the daily wtf... front page, first article.
They're not "suing anyone they don't like", they're defending copyrighted material or protecting trademarks- and they are famous for doing so, since long before Jobs was re-hired. Shockingly they HAVE to, or said copyright/trademarks are diluted. If I start using the logo of GrooWanderer, Inc and you know about it but do nothing- and then BigCompany Inc comes along and does it, your case against BigCompany Inc is severely diluted because -I- did it and you didn't seem to care.
Many look at lawsuits as something like the death penalty or a nuclear first-strike. They're not. It is a civil matter taken before authority for resolution. A cease-and-desist is a PRELIMINARY step (MANY steps before a lawsuit) saying "That ain't cool. Do something about it, or we'll have to take it to the courts." The language is written to be clear and unambiguous- and hence valid in court later when the judge says, "Okay, so...did you let them know they were violating your copyright?", you can say "Absolutely and in no uncertain terms." It's not written to impress 15 year old internet commentators.
This isn't about "embarassing photos", and comparing Apple to a genuine cult is a severe dilution of the term "cult"- dangerously so. It is about protecting copyrighted material that is provided exclusively to internal Apple staff and employees of Apple Certified Resellers. I agree that it'd be great if such material were available free, but Apple has made a business decision to leverage "Apple Certified Reseller" qualifications, so they don't want any old Joe Shmoe having access to those manuals. That's their perrogative and their right.
If you don't like it- that's just too bad; don't buy Apple products, speak your mind to your representatives, run for office, whatever you like to try and change the law, or move to a small island with Richard Stallman and enjoy sharing you "copylefted" works- but otherwise, you sound like a guy in court because he punched someone in the face, angry because he doesn't believe in a law against punching people in the face.
I use Apple products (typing this on a Macbook, my 4th powerbook, oops, I mean laptop, oops, I mean "portable.") I have a linux box sitting under an Xserve in the basement. My firewall runs a FreeBSD based distribution. I have a machine under my desk that runs win2k and Ubuntu occasionally, though less-so now that emulation and virtualization work decently on the macbook.
I recognized the strengths of various platforms a decade ago. When someone asks me "should I get a Mac", my answer is a question- "what do you do with your computer?" When they ask "should I install Linux", I judge their experience level and factor that heavily into my answer, because Linux still isn't remotely ready for prime-time desktop use by people who just want their computer to work. I hate Apple fanboys (to paraphrase the author of the "Apple Product Cycle"- I'd love to go to Macworld some time, but strongly suspect I'd end up starting a brawl).
However, my new hatred is for "Appleworms"; people who spout "I hate apple" followed by some moderately insane rambling. If you've got a legitimate beef, fine- and I have a bunch for Apple. Otherwise, for god sakes, please shut up. Anyone remotely intelligent sees you spouting your "opinion" for attention. I've seen people call Apple computer/iPod owners "sheep". Complain about or "cite" a never-ending stream of problems that don't exist (my favorite: "you can't resize the dock, it takes up a chunk of your screen!") Heard people laugh at Apple's single-digit market share and describe it as a "failure" (ignoring the billion dollars in cash reserves, sales on the uptake, stock that consistently meets or exceeds analyst expectations- or the fact that Apple's market valu
Please help metamoderate.
Files are never hosted on the forums, so Apple should be going after the person who is hosting the material. Apple doesn't understand how teh intarweb works.
The really interesting thing is that the Apple legal department uses Microsoft Entourage as an e-mail client. Lowtax posted the headers in his response (posted above by someone else).
Received: from mail-out3.apple.com (mail-out3.apple.com [17.254.13.22])
by mx3.somethingawful.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E4981B523C
for webmaster@somethingawful.com; Tue, 2 May 2006 21:38:35 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from relay8.apple.com (relay8.apple.com [17.128.113.38])
by mail-out3.apple.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k432cUP8027258
for webmaster@somethingawful.com; Tue, 2 May 2006 19:38:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [17.193.14.216] (unknown [17.193.14.216])
by relay8.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 5CB7E17B;
Tue, 2 May 2006 19:38:30 -0700 (PDT)
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.3.060209
Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 19:38:28 -0700
Subject: Urgent Legal Notice from Apple Computer
From: Copyright Agent copyrightagent@apple.com
To: webmaster@somethingawful.com
Message-ID: C07D65B4.1430E%copyrightagent@apple.com
Thread-Topic: Urgent Legal Notice from Apple Computer
v4sw6PU$hw6ln6pr4F$ck 4/6$ma3+6u7LNS$w2m4l7U$i2e4+7en6a2X h
You don't suppose they've been slashdotted, do you?
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include--
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.
---
Do I really need to walk Apple through the factors to prove to them that this is fair use? It's pretty damn clear! Ok, fine, I'll do it anyway.
Preamble) Seems to me it qualifies as criticism, comment, and teaching.
1) This isn't commercial. They aren't reselling your manual. This is an "educational purpose." Get over yourselves.
2) It's a technical manual. There are two types of copyrighted works: 1) factual and 2) creative. This is in the first category. That means less protection for you, Apple.
3) It's only one little picture. The amount is minimal.
4) There is no effect. People still have to buy the manual if they want the manual.
Hey, SomethingAwful wins on all four elements! STFU Apple.
*I am not a lawyer. But I can read a statute.
Lawrence Lessig is my personal hero.
Thermal paste has less resistance than air, but it's far from perfect. It's actually possible to pile it on so thick that it conducts heat more slowly than a small air gap. Use just enough to fill in surface flaws; metal-on-metal does most of the work and you do not want to reduce that.
You obviously didn't bother to check out what happened.
Some guy linked to the entire service manual, hosted on his own site. This isn't over the one image that is still there, it's over the PDF that was removed some time ago.
Read this page on SA to see the second notice, sent directly to the guy who was hosting it.
But really, with a UID that low you should know better. Try to make sure you have the facts before you get all excited and post something that ends up having no bearing on the discussion at hand.
Satire is SPECIFICALLY protected speech under the constitution.
that way sooner or later i'd get sued by apple...
DON'T SUE ME APPLE
but
www.apple.com
actually I am happy to see you, however that is in fact a banana in my pocket.
I got an AMD ASUS motherboard and it had overheating problems, until I applied a good thermal paste to the CPU.
why do u think apple has attention to detail ? bad batteries, keyboards that leave marks on laptop screens, to much paste..these are just the things that i am familiar with off the top of my head.
apple has a highly underserved rep for making quality hardware.
In fact, apple is a marketing comp;any like nike or pepsi (little scully thing for you older folk) every now and then they make a nice thing that appeals to people, but as a technology or as a manufacturing company, aint much there
The single reprinted image is not the problem.
Look at the top of the guy's post. The entire service manual PDF was linked to, hosted on his own site. The file has been removed, as Apple requested.
Mod parent down, they're spewing misinformation.
So Apple's clownboat lawyers have just spawned a wave of Anti-Apple publicity.
Only on Slashdot. Only amongst the /. crowd that has nothing better to do than follow every Apple story. Wake me up when this is being repeated every half-hour on CNN Headline News.
It's not being repeated every half-hour on CNN headline news? Guess what? Apple's lawyers won--in the real world, those fancy degrees were a lot better than your random geek postings after all.
Lies about crimes
Skimming through that leaves me with a cold, empty feeling that I fear will linger with me until the end of time.
Screw the rules, I have green hair!
It could be that Apple does not wish people to be looking at service manuals because it makes them believe they can fix their own computers, when in fact they usually screw those things up AND void their warranty, after which they would blame Apple, not themselves for screwing it up. Could it possibly be a better option to let APPLE repair your computer, instead of doing it yourself? Apple's usually pretty good about fixing this stuff - or giving you a new machine, if they feel that makes more sense. Posting pages from a service manual will lead to no good - just because SOME of the people reading the article MIGHT be able to do this themselves without damaging anything doesn't mean that ALL of the people who try it will be successful - and Apple will be stuck cleaning up their mess. Just my $.02.
Does this mean we can stop this myth yet?
Or are the zealots just going to play the "it's only the paste" line?
These were the ads right below the Article:
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whomever leaked the page to AomethingAwful broke the law. SomethingAwful broke the law by posting it. Apple doesn't care about the post, there just worried about the fact that the manufacturing SUCKS.
It's not -1 Flamebait! It's +5 Funny. You just didn't get the joke...
Apple had slathered on far too much thermal grease, he found that using a more modest amount dropped his MacBook Pro's temperatures by [a few] degrees
Before: Running at 95 degrees Celcius, and
After: Running at 93(?) degrees Celcius
I would certainly not open up a laptop to change this.
At any rate, what can happen? You may get some bit errors (Soft errors) at 125(?) degrees Celcius, but no damage to anything. Aluminum melts at over 700 degrees Celcius.
"Fix it"
Yes, having too much heat sink goop between in the thermal interface is bad. Yes, you need to have a very small amount in that area.
But there is nothing wrong with putting more on as long as you apply sufficient pressure to squeeze the extra out. And that is what Apple's picture shows. A thin film in the thermal interface area and big globs around the interface area.
The film on the interface area is slightly thick, but it's not so thick that it would cause significant problems. It's not any thicker than the film that I saw on my NVidia 6800 Ultra or 7800GT when I removed the heatsinks to replace them with other cooling solutions.
And as to the lawyers thing, Apple just said to remove the link. It is illegal in this country to link to copyrighted material, not just to host it. Otherwise, bittorrent trackers would be legal, right?
This story is way out of control lately. I'm glad people are getting the message that putting a lot of TIM (thermal interface material, also known as heat sink goop) on is unnecessary. Maybe next time around they could actually learn enough about cooling to know what to look for in a picture of others' work.
Additionally, note that electrical conductivity is not an important characteristic of TIM. In fact, it is typically electrically non-conductive so that if you have a little spread out onto nearby circuits (say, the multiplier resistors on top of an Athlon) it won't short stuff out. TIM only has to conduct heat. It does it better than air (which is what would otherwise fill a void space), and that's about it. That's why you use as little as possible.
Honestly this is all a mountain out of a molehill. All someone had to do was post a picture of their own laptop and not use Apple's copyright restricted info and this wouldn't have even happened.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
The post includes a brief excerpt from Apple's Service Source Manual which Apple wants removed.
I have mod points, but I couldn't find anyone pointing this out to mod up. The post includes a link to the entire service manual. Apple's complaint is NOT about the single page showing the thermal grease, it's about the posting of a PDF of their copyrighted service manual in its entirety. Now, they're still threatening the wrong person, since the file is hosted somewhere else, but there is real infringement going on.
I am concerned about what I just read in this thread. I am about to order two of these Probooks. I am an educator and cannot afford to have these overheat in the middle of a lesson. I also don't want to lose all the data that I will be transferring to these new laptops (despite the fact that I'm constantly uploading to our Server this "overheating" could occur at any moment.) I really need the features that the ProBook offers so what do you suggest I do? Should I ask the Apple Service Center to check the "paste" before I take possession of these laptops? I don't want to wait for their "fix." On an aside note: I currently have a G4 that runs "hot" too. Finally, do you have any info about the dual processor that they just incorporated into these new machines?
The only shoddiness on Apple's part is to have approved that photo for the manual. On the other hand, if the termal grease was not evident, someone would surely have forgotten to put it.
So the photo does not prove anything. If the laptops overheat, that's bad, and THAT is a problem.
It demonstrates that the service manual gives bad instructions, which may damage the potential market for this and ALL of their service manuals. Apple lawyers would find any US judge viewing such a position with a highly jaundiced eye, but it might work better overseas where Truth is not ipso facto a perfect defense against Libel.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
"followed by some moderately insane rambling. "
Wow. Pot. Kettle black.
Oh wait, you're being ironic.
No, you're not.
Or...maybe you are.
Anyway, don't you think Apple is a bit kooky with these lawsuits over nothing? They seem to be jerks like that, don't you agree?
Love the hardware and the design. Hate the idiot lawyers who fsck things up and the sales evangelists who couldn't sell an umbrella to a man standing in the pouring rain. And hate the management when it's run by anyone other than Steve Jobs.
Apple has always been a designer's company and an engineer's company--but their corporate sales team (I mean the guys out of Cupertino, not the guys at the Apple Store) have always been flaming idiots (I know; I've dealt with them), and when management was run by anyone other than Steve Jobs, management of Apple simply Didn't Get It.
its all lawyers who have nothing to do who are looking to fill their timesheets to earn more
$$ to get those bonuses to buy that new BMW or 6bdroom mansion.
All they have to do is request the website licence the content, for a one time fee for $1 per page per article.
Done.
No dilution, just b2b and because its private/contract no one knows that it was $1.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
There are multiple photos of opened MPBs on the site...all of them have a mass of goop on the chips.
It's sickening to see evidence of such shoddy manufacturing processes.
The temperature drops 20C after the "fix".
So much for your "demo picture".
I'm a Mac user. I've hardly ever been 100% happy with a PowerBook I bought. Sometimes the hinge feels too soft. Sometimes I don't like the touch of the keys. Sometimes it makes whiny sounds.
I used to think that Macs were not really well built, but I bought them anyway because I prefer Mac OS to Windows.
However, I've had to work with several different PC notebooks (IBM (when they still had a PC business), Dell, Sony and others), and I've figured something out: They're way worse than Macs. It's just that PC users don't care. The hinge on your notebook isn't properly attached to the screen? Well, it works, right? A key constantly falls off? Well, you can put it back on, right?
I've yet to see a PC notebook which is made as well as my MacBook Pro.
So the problem is not that Apple's computers are crappy. PCs are even crappier, it's just that Mac users are whiny bitches (and I'm one of them, too, so don't flame me for that) while PC users simply don't care and don't expect any better.
I kind of hate the the 'infringing until proven non-infringing' nature of current copyright law. It feels 'guilty until proven innocent' to me. Anyway, IANAL, so check with your lawyer first, but it seems like it is copyright infringement until they mount and win an affirmative defense (the four-pronged fair use defense) to retain the material. I know there are lawyers here, so maybe one of you can chime in here.
Read Heinlein's 1953 Revolt in 2100, now more than ever.
keep in mind that Apple has the BEST QA and least need for service across the entire industry
I'm sorry, I know too many people with broken iPods to let that "least need" bit slide. Sheer volume and lack of DIY'ability lay that statement flat on its face...if a consequence is the indictment of CR's numbers, they need better statisticians. Anyone who's had his electronics collection sans iPod serviced repeatedly feel free to contradict me.
If you were speaking of "tech support via phone" and not "product repair," I'll concede the point as wildly out of context.
Apple's great, go Mac, I've just driven about 10 too many university desktops to the Apple store not to get hung up on your statement. I don't have a horse in this race, only the experience that when a Mac breaks, nobody knows how to fix it.
*rubs sticks together to create fire*
you can have my violent video games when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.
Prime UID Club
You can thank the DMCA for that, it created the whole notion of just C&Ding the forum instead of going after individuals...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Inf
I hate the DMCA... but I wonder if "Something Awful LLC" does. I would imagine they just love being able to have a legal leg to stand on when they say "we're not responsible for what users put on our machines."
Then why the fuck do you act like one, fuckhead? Jeezus, umpty billion people in this thread have pointed out the concept of Fair Use (It's the same as you photocopying one page of a book at a uni library to use in a school assignment), and yet the Apple Fanbois, yes, including you, moron, continue to fucking bleat about how fair and innocent and morally fucking righteous Apple is.
Talk about sheer mindless stupidity.
I don't get why people seem to think apple make good hardware. Ever opened up a macbook? Ever opened up a thinkpad? World of difference...
I'm sorry, Sir, but that court opinion is protected by U.S. Copyright Law. It is the property of Westlaw and may not be copied into slashdot comments without prior permission. Please withdraw your remarks or face a cease and desist order.
"Lowtax versus Jobs.
Sounds like Econ 101 class."
We all love Google's "Don't be evil" philosophy.
Yet, when it comes to Apple, the fanboys don't want to accept that Apple has the opposite philosophy, and is a lawyer-ridden evil empire that will sue anyone who frowns in their general direction.
It's not pretty.
95 degrees is rather hot to touch, but chips are usually rated to 125 or 150 deg continuous.
Still, Apple seems to have goofed - the heatsinking should be done properly...
For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
What they have done is blasphemy and of course they should take it down and apologise. To insult Apple believers in this way is not acceptable, religious insults are not acceptable and only serve to fuel hatred.
Praise Jobs the Enlightener, the Finder,
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Is that a violation of intelectual property law, is there not an exception for portecting public safty?
A good portion of the people I know (including my family) have had the pleasure of a broken ipod. My battery and hard drive failed, my daughter's battery failed, my wife's display died.
I mean, we keep buying them, but based on the price, they should be a lot more reliable.
Apple makes nice computers, but for the most part, it's worth getting the extended warranty from Apple, because you'll use it. At least once.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
"Apple makes their own parts."
Maybe their own private parts, but Apple hasn't made their own computer parts in at least 10 years if not longer.
Your argument boils down to this:
1) Mac are special
2) Apple is special
3) If Apple says not to do it it's because (see #2) and (see #1)
4) Apple is special
5) Apple computers are more complicated than other computers (see #1)
The truth of the matter is, all laptop computers are made by a handful of manufacturers, all of them located in the far east. These companies are good at customizing and branding so that the computer bears a family resemblance to the manufacturer's other stuff.
Apple is just another computer company that happens to make nice looking computers, and a really great operating system. But that doesn't give them carte blance to be asshole. In fact, as a company that tries to "think different", they have a special responsibility to be an example, but in a good way, not the way they do in situations like this.
Two, if you got the information in a way that you knew, or must know was illegal. If you broke into the doctors office and stole the medical files, it's perfectly acceptable to hold you liable for the damages that ensue if you sell those files to the slander-press.
I don't think those anologies work in this situation.
It would be like you have a bulletin board at your local general store and then some guy comes in and posts the "offending" information on your bulleting board. Not only that, it wasn't the information, but rather a map to the house to where you could contact the person with the information.
That is what happened with Somethingawful. The non-employee of somethingawful posted a link to a document on another website.
When trying to make analogies with anything on the internet... They don't really work that well because... Well the internet is more... different than real physical life...
When you compare real world situations to the internet... I dunno... It is as if you were trying to explain the rules of football by comparing it to the mating and gestation of crustation anthropods or maybe faster than light travel engines.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
* They have consistently chosen to make the computers quieter
It may well be Fair Use in theory But in practice, well, we'll see how the lawsuit turns out.
I never stated, and never meant to state, that publicising this page from the Apple manual falls in under any of my two exceptions.
My comment was a general one, in reply to the direct parent. He seemed to be protesting limitations on usability of information in *general*, and I wanted to point out that there's some situations where, I think, limitations are warranted.
I never said, or meant to say, that this particular situation is such an example.
Re: It is illegal in this country to link to copyrighted material, not just to host it.
Wrong. Seriously, think about it. What else does Google do but link to copyrighted material?
Yes, steve Jobs was caught eating a baby and bludgeoning a seal to death with his bare hands, but he is a genius and can be forgiven the odd eccentricity because I am a big fan of the products he makes, and they make me feel special because I am part of a smart cliche of users who know better than everyone else. Who are you, though? A nobody, thats who. So I don't care what you say, the problem here is clearly with the other party, not Apple.
Aww gee... A threatening letter from corporate lawyers.
Apple's law dogs send out thousands of these, but most people who get them don't whore them for attention.
Dog is my co-pilot.
As a MacBook Pro owner myself, I followed this whole thermal paste debate since the beginning. In my own situation, my MacBook Pro runs with the CPU at an average operating temp. of around 75-78 degrees C. (At complete idle to the point where the LCD panel blanks, I've seen a low temp. of 47C.) Under 100% processor load for several minutes, the highest peak temperature I ever was able to observe was around 87 degrees C, and that quickly dropped back down after both cooling fans kicked in. I've never opened my unit to check on it, but it was an earlier production model than many people are complaining about - so I have no doubts it has too much heatsink paste applied inside of it.
I've also read where a laptop technician claimed that very similar instructions to over-use the heatsink paste are found in service manuals for Toshiba, Dell, HP, and other popular brands.
Since there are also reports from other MacBook Pro owners on Apple's forums claiming the re-application of thermal paste the proper way didn't address their high temp. issues, I'm starting to think the heat problems may involve more than just thermal paste issues.
After all, even if I put 2 or 3 whole tubes of paste between a CPU and a heatsink, after the heatsink is pressed down and locked/screwed into place, there can only be so much paste left between the two parts. The rest just gets squeezed out around the edges, where it would hopefully get wiped off by the installer - or at least, no longer have anything to do with the cooling of the processor itself.
Reading the original thread provides some clues.
First of all, in the original thread, the person who first did this has "proof" where he measures the temperature of the case with an IR thermometer and it is a few degrees (C) cooler. Although you cannot measure the temperature of a metal surface (the case) with an IR thermometer. IR thermometers actually measure the wavelength of photons coming from the direction they are pointed. Shiny surfaces (metals) reflect photons and so you are measuring the temperature of whatever is reflected in the surface, not the metal surface itself.
Second, the person also says that after doing the "fix", the fan comes on more often. Of course if the fan comes on more often the unit will be cooler, because more heat is coming out as hot air. The question is why does the fan come on more often? Is that a good thing?
See, the basic problem is Apple has designed the MacBook Pro to run as a closed-loop thermostatic system. It has a target temp it is supposed to keep itself at. Presumably the chips and the case both have their own maximum temps. If you want to change the temperature of the system, you have to either alter the temperature of the sensors or change the target temp.
Perhaps these laptops are getting hotter than people like. But are they getting hotter than the target temp? It seems to me that likely people just don't like Apple's max target temp decision, which was selected to minimize running the fan, since running the fan takes power and makes noise.
In the face of this, perhaps Apple should lower the target temp, by altering the control software. Which they can do, they have done it before, the PB G4 12" I am on right now is notable for this. In some OS update they decided to run the fan more often to keep it cooler. But to have people open up units and change things that don't even necessarily alter the feedback loop is probably not something Apple wants.
Actually, all of that is off the point anyway. Remember how copyright works. It doesn't work like patents, if you do not enfore your copyright you lose it. Apple must send something awful a C&D notice, regardless of how their copyright is being infringed and whether the effects are positive or negative.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Seriously, why doesn't the poster of the diy article take a picture of his and apple's (shoddy) work and post them as a side-by-side comparison?? This would eliminate Apple's legal complaint while having an equal or greater effect on his reader base.
Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine -- Robert C. Gallagher
He will lawyer the fuck out of Apple!
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
Thanks for replying. I realized after I posted that I should have researched the claims more closely. It's true that I will not be having the MacBook Pro "sitting on my lap" for any extended periods of time. It will be sitting on a desk hooked up to a LCD projector and Smartboard throughout the day. I was more concerned with any glitches that would compromise my data and the software compatibility with the new dual processor. We've had more problems with the iBooks than any of the G4's. Several iBooks have overheated with smoke over the last couple of years. We are no longer purchasing these for our District. So, you can see why I was hesitant about going ahead with the Mac Pros. If anyone else has any other comments about these computers, please post.
This is exactly the sort of behavior which keeps me from buying any kind of Apple hardware whatsoever, and I am betting I am not alone in this sentiment.
They want to come across as cool, modern, fun, etc. but then they're suing the pants off people left and right for really minor 'infractions'.
Apple, wake up! People don't want to give their money to assholes!
I don't know why I'm really bothering since you're so unable to express yourself you had to use "fuck" almost a half dozen times in one paragraph, but here goes.
Jeezus, umpty billion people in this thread have pointed out the concept of Fair Use (It's the same as you photocopying one page of a book at a uni library to use in a school assignment), and yet the Apple Fanbois, yes, including you, moron, continue to fucking bleat about how fair and innocent and morally fucking righteous Apple is.
Or I read Standford University's webpage on Fair Use. Emphasis added:
Fair use is a copyright principle based on the belief that the public is entitled to freely use portions of copyrighted materials forpurposes of commentary and criticism. For example, if you wish to criticize a novelist, you should have the freedom to quote a portion of the novelist's work without asking permission. Absent this freedom, copyright owners could stifle any negative comments about their work.
Unfortunately, if the copyright owner disagrees with your fair use interpretation, the dispute will have to be resolved by courts or arbitration. If it's not a fair use, then you are infringing upon the rights of the copyright owner and may be liable for damages.
The only guidance is provided by a set of fair use factors outlined in the copyright law. These factors are weighed in each case to determine whether a use qualifies as a fair use. For example, one important factor is whether your use will deprive the copyright owner of income. Unfortunately, weighing the fair use factors is often quite subjective. For this reason, the fair use road map is often tricky to navigate.
Please help metamoderate.
Could it be that Apple legal never sent the request, that it was a fake one sent by a prankster?
Dell and HP don't sell "propietary" service manuals to authorized service representatives.
Any document the person on the forum who would have cared to link to a supposedly incriminating page could have linked directly to Dell's or HP's support sites.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
"I mean, we keep buying them, but based on the price, they should be a lot more reliable."
And then the obvious question... why do you keep buying a product if you consider it overpriced and unreliable?
I realize the interface is nice and if you have invested in iTunes songs you're shit out of luck using them on another brand mp3 player but still it's amazing how many people have had problems with their iPods and yet keep on buying them.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
You didn't design the system. You don't know the target temperature.
That's like saying if the furnace in my house runs more, it's a good thing. That's only the case if it is doing so for a good reason. If it's doing so because there's something wrong with the feedback loop, then it isn't a good thing. If it's doing so to keep the CPU down at 50C, it isn't a good thing. There is no evidence that silicon chips last longer if they are kept cooler. As long as they stay below the rated temps, the system is in great shape. Any additional active cooling just wastes energy.
It'd be one thing if someone out there had K-probes on every chip and the fans (for speed/duty cycle) and knew how the system works and made a change and showed it it made the system work better. Instead, there's people putting together a bunch of poor info into an even worse conclusions.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Those are all Apple IP addresses in the subject line (Apple owns all IP addresses that start with 17).
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Q: What is the only difference between MS and Apple?
A: Market Share.
What I don't understand is why an Apple fanatic would think Apple was well served by preventing the release of information which comes plainly within the "fair use" copyright doctrine (ONE page out of HOW many?) which will protect users from serious injury and/or serious machine damage and the company from serious legal liability when some poor sucker has discovered that his computer has set his lap on fire. Not unreasonable, a CPU meltdown could easily ignite a battery.
Would you sue Apple if a CPU melted down in your lap and you wound up in the ER, perhaps missing... never mind, I doubt you've got a pair anyway.
The company should already have put out a recall notice on the affected computers. Their alternative is winding up on the losing side of lawsuits announced with newspaper headlines describing how Apple laptops aren't safe to have on your lap and accompanying stories describing *dangerous* manufacturing incompetence. I'm sure MS and a whole lot of Windows laptop vendors would be happy to highlight this in future product ads. A recall makes them look like good guys and shows they've made an honest try to protect their customers rather than waiting for somebody to sue them. Besides, once they lose a lawsuit or two, they'll have to do the product recall anyway.
Improper application of heat sink grease to a modern CPU/cooler by a manufacturer certainly looks like negligence to me. Seen the image? I have, and if I owned an affected machine, I'd either take it to the dealer or open it up IMMEDIATELY.
They also should have posted that page and the fix on their own company website for independent service technicians and end users whose machines are out of warranty.
If you think Apple's desire to protect its intellectual property trumps user safety and product liability... it's a good thing for Apple you don't work there.
As for me... while I'm likely to buy a Mac anyway sooner or later, reading this tells me that I won't be buying stock in the company and that I'd better keep my eyes open for more ugly surprises from Apple if I do buy. Since I generally do my own computer maintenance anyway, this is no big deal as long as Apple doesn't keep the bad news to itself. If I get my computer screwed up or get hurt because Apple's protecting its IP, I'd sue in a heartbeat.
Yes, this would make me disloyal to Apple. Since I've never wanted to be known as a fanboy and believe that a vendor should only get whatever loyalty to me it can earn with a good product or by going "above and beyond the call of duty" to help me with problems, that isn't a problem for me.
Any product liability lawyers reading this should go NOW to this page and save a copy along with the info on Apple's attempt to suppress this information. I'm sure that there will be lawsuits soon.
Speaking as a Linux user, I'm not fanatic about any company or OS... just about getting my work done. All this tells me is that Apple's already started its slow descent into being "just another company". Too bad, but it happens to just about all companies sooner or later.
They are if one can't afford an attorney to respond to the IP owner in court, and that includes most people.Tech Public Policy stuff
Plus, we've got the heads-up so if we get one of these boxes and it seems to be running REALLY FUCKING HOT, we can take it to the dealer along with the picture of what's wrong and tell the tech what to fix, or just open the box and fix it. It's an easy fix, just remove the heat sink grease and replace it with the right amount.
If you are J.Random User who doesn't read slashdot or other Mac sites, unless Apple recalls the boxes, your first notice of a problem will be when the CPU melts down, possibly igniting the battery.
Do you really think having a laptop catch fire in your lap is minor?
Tech Public Policy stuff
"Several iBooks have overheated with smoke over the last couple of years. We are no longer purchasing these for our District."
This is absolutely astonishing. Hope and trust that you sued? I have never heard of a computer doing this, and if any other supplier's machines of any sort did this, there would be an instant total recall. Cars get recalled for smaller safety defects than this. We are talking about something here that could burn people or start fires and burn down schools. This, if its really true, is amazing and horrifying. What was Apple's reaction when you told them?
Well, if you want anecdotal evidence, I have a second generation iPod 10GB.
It's functioned perfectly since I got it new, it stays in my car, which can be very hot or very cold.
I've never even had to put a battery in it.
It's no problem to transfer heat to the PCB. PCBs are rated to very high temps. You cannot burn a PCB with heat sink goop. It simply cannot get hot enough. The chip would unsolder itself first.
Besides, on most chips (not CPUs, they produce too much heat energy), the PCB is the primary heatsink anyway. The heat goes from the die to the pins and the pins to the ground plane in the PCB and spreads out across the ground plane, away from the chip.
To think your PCB is at all thermally separated from your chips is incorrect. How could it with all that metal (solder, pins, contacts) connecting them together?
If these people have burnt and bubbled PCBs, they have other problems that reapplying TIM won't fix.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
It isn't so much that I don't believe documenting procedures is good or even that ISO can't halp the process along, just that I've seen far too many shops use ISO as a marketing point as if it was some sort of assurance that the product was high quality or delivered in a timely manner.
I agree that CEOs generally shouldn't be micro-managing the assembly line, but in this case, it would be a good thing if SOMEONE at apple could just say "use less grease" and have it happen right away. I also point out that there is no reason an ISO shop CAN'T change things like that instantly and remain ISO as long as they have and follow a document update procedure. Such a procedure need not be long, complex, or laborious, they just often are.
Just means Apple has outsourced evil to Microsoft?
I'll try to explain what I'm trying to say: In my experience, PC users will simply put up with and accept most problems their computer have, while Mac users will whine about every little imperfection.
I mentioned some examples of this. Somebody I know has a IBM laptop whose escape key fell off after less than a year. He didn't do anything about it, after all, it still works. At my workplace, somebody's Dell bluescreened regularly about twice a week. He didn't do anything about it for half a year, then replaced a few hardware parts and when that didn't help, he simply had a new Dell ordered to replace the crashing machine. A former girlfriend of mine simply did not start her PC for a few months after she caught a virus and didn't know what to do about it. A friend's dad has three external CD burners at home, none of them connected to his PC. He tried to install them, and when one didn't work, he simply bought the next one. He has wireless internet, but when he couldn't get it to work with a Nintendo DS, he simply bought one of Nintendo's USB thingies instead. Another former girlfriend has an IBM laptop whose battery only lasted for about ten minutes after half a year of usage. Did she complain to IBM? Nah, she simply doesn't use it unplugged anymore. She bought a bluetooth USB stick, and when it didn't work after a few tries, she put it in a drawer never to be seen again. I had to install her wifi card after she wasn't able to do it for a few months and finally simply stopped trying. Most PC users don't actually seem to expect their stuff to work, and they aren't surprised or annoyed if it doesn't.
Mac users, on the other hand, write pages upon pages of blog entries because their Macs make an almost inaudible sound when the energy consumption of their Macs changes, they scream bloody murder if their tranparent Cubes aren't perfectly clear and they generally whine about whatever little problem they can find.
Of course, this is just my own experience. I'm simply saying that in my experience, most PC users would be better off if they expected a little more of their computers. Reading online blogs about Macs doesn't really give you a good impression of the quality of Apple's products because Mac users will complain about every little imperfection.
Apple should just fess up and admit they fucked up. Bite the bullet, and admit what the world already knows, that their MacBook assembly team didn't know what the hell they were doing. Maybe fire a few people. And give all their customers full replacements or refunds.
Suing to cover this up just makes them look like assholes. Apple's reputation depends on people seeing them as a straight up company that stands by the quality of its hardware. They fucked up with the thermal grease and now they fucked again when they tried to cover it up.
Well better late than never to start acting like they've got half a brain...