Also, I watched the memory usage while it was trying to start and there was no unusual activity. It didn't even reach Firefox's usual (high) levels until right at the end, presumably when it actually got past the bug.
There is no security breach involved here at all. It's not even a very bad bug. Clicking an infected link (as I've done) doesn't crash your browser, it doesn't keep it from reopening, it doesn't cause a buffer overflow. All it does is make Firefox take a unusually long time to open the next time. Admittedly, an inexperienced or impatient person might think this is a crash , but it's really not.
I realize that their vastly different games, but nintendo is still pggybacking on the popularity of thier established brands. Guess I should have made my point more clear.
Even with broadband, a game DVD is about 4.5GB, 9 if it's dual-layer (I don't know if XBOX 1 supports this or not but...)Granted, that's mostly animations and textures, but it's still going to be a huge download for complex physics and AI engines.
"There is usually a hardware emulation layer to fall back to when a call can't be translated. Famous emulators of this type include Wine and Executor"
I highly doubt wine has a hardware emulation layer, since a huge percentage of desktop Linux boxes are x86 or some compatible 64-bit architecture, and I doubt many servers would have the need to run windows software.
"It's VERY unlikely Microsoft could simply emulate every chip in the XBox1, the 360's CPU is simply not that powerful. It is impossible to emulate one CPU across multiple cores, so the 360 would be emulating a PIII 733MHz on a single core."
I'm fairly sure a 3+Ghz chip can emulate a 733Mhz one (celeron, not PIII, by the way), especially one with a smaller instruction set like x86(My parents 133Mhz celeron can emulate an N64, which is much more specialised and not-computer-like than the 360 will be, and my PC can do it plus some heavy texture up-scaling and anti-aliasing). The chips are hyper threaded, but I'd bet that can be disabled, if not by games than at least by the OS. Also, most likely one core would emulate the CPU, one core the GPU, and one core everything else.
"The clock speed of the 360 is impressive but the chip is EXTREMELY simplistic, it doesn't even support out of order execution."
Yes, it's simplistic, but so is the xbox CPU, and I'd guess that they're limited in mostly the same areas.
"This leaves Microsoft stuck rewriting Wine from scratch before November, and tweeking the emulator for each and every game."
As several people have already pointed out, they already have a x86-on-PPC emulator, Virtual PC. And the reason wine devs have so much trouble making wine work is that they don't know how windows works. I'd bet that the xbox devs know how the xbox works. Also, as someone has already pointed out, the nature of emulation is that when you get one game working, it makes lots of others start working, so they're not "tweeking the emulator for each and every game" don't assume that everything that applies to PC emulation applies to console emulation.
"I will bet you $10US that less than 20 games for the original XBox are officially supported on the XBox 360 by Microsoft when it launches in November."
$10? Is that supposed to make you seem sure of yourself?
When will they learn that the people who really want to will find a way around this stuff, and they're just screwing the majority of their customer base who "just want it to work"
How is this a response to what I said? I'm just saying the zenon-based beta devkit is faster than the G5 based alpha devkit, not that xbox 360 is faster than PS3
Not quite. Right now I'm seeing an annoying flash ad for vonage. The patent is for someone putting [vonagead] in a page and my computer displaying the file WITHOUT actually downloading it on the spot. In MSN messenger the:) is sent across the net and the receiving computer turns that into a cute and graphically advanced smiley that was installed locally with messenger itself
(sorry for the double post. they needed the same response)
The video game parallel is a lot closer, but actually the images aren't stored locally per se. the textures are stored locally, but the game engine compiles the actual image you see on screen on the spot. It's still alot too close for comfort, and I can see some technophobe judge not understanding the subtlties of it.
Not quite. Right now I'm seeing an annoying flash ad for centrino. The patent is for someone putting [centrinoad] in a page and my computer displaying the file WITHOUT actually downloading it on the spot. In MSN messenger the:) is sent across the net and the receiving computer turns that into a cute and graphically advanced smiley that was installed locally with messenger itself
Ballmer doesn't always represent Microsoft as a whole (CEOs don't have absolute power) and his anti-Linux stance sometimes seems like a personal vendetta.
Anybody else think the repost time limit is a little low?(It's been 6 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment)
"1. If it's likely to make money for Microsoft, they'll sue. The only reason they won't sue it if it would probably fail in the courtroom."
On what do you base this opinion (other that the Linux bashing)
"Abusing a broken system is immoral and unethical. Microsoft have shown themselves to be both, which is why I will never buy or recommend their products."
Again, when has MS been more unethical than any other corporation?
That is exactly the opposite of what they're saying. The article references one person saying that "in some ways" they are slower, and 4 pages of people saying they're faster. The big deal with the XBox architecture was the way the GPU and CPU switched off loads and where the vectors were turned into pixels (This is from memory, so it may be slightly off. Don't flame me on a technicality). That wasn't available on the G5s, so even if the clock speed or the floating-point per sec. are slightly slower, the performance will still be much faster.
XBox Live is compromised? Exactly how? And compared to the competition (PS2 has almost noexistent online play, Gamecube is literally non-existent) XBox live is pretty superior.
"PC Gaming is why we have innovation, and why 90% of us buy new computers."
90% of who? all humans? slashdotters? Do businesses buy computers to entertain cubical dwellers? Is a forty year old housewife more likely buy a computer to play Doom 3, or to organize recipes? Don't assume that the people you know are representative of society. People tend to gravitate towards people that have similar motives and priorities. I agree with the innovation part, but just because a medium does something first doesn't mean it does it best.
"gaming is why we buy the latest processor when a P2 will do most jobs just fine."
No, we don't buy P2s because they don't make them anymore. And there are plenty of other uses for high end PCs: hardcore graphics editing is pretty close to the same requirement, and video editing in any reasonable resolution is well past gaming in some areas.
Age, Civ, The Sims, Starcraft and (I think) warcraft are all games in which you command large groups of people. This doesn't work well with the limited input on a console. In 3rd and 1st person games where you control 1 person it becomes a matter of preference. Personally I can't aim with a mouse, many people are equally bad with a controller.
Doom 3 is available on consoles.
As for Counterstrike, Quake, Deus Ex, Etc., how many people outside the hardcore gaming community play them, or even know about some of them? They simply don't have the mass appeal of games like Halo and GTA, not because the content is any worse (often it's better) but simply because they are PC games.
"They had already offered to surrender, if the Emperor and his family would be left alive."
If this is truly the only stipulation they had, you've won the arguemnt, but i kinda doubt it since they were left alive, as the your point right before this one states.
"And within a year or two, Japan would be crushed by Soviet ground troops."
i've already pointed out that this would have left us with just another eastern europe to deal with.
Slashdot Mirror
Also, I watched the memory usage while it was trying to start and there was no unusual activity. It didn't even reach Firefox's usual (high) levels until right at the end, presumably when it actually got past the bug.
There is no security breach involved here at all. It's not even a very bad bug. Clicking an infected link (as I've done) doesn't crash your browser, it doesn't keep it from reopening, it doesn't cause a buffer overflow. All it does is make Firefox take a unusually long time to open the next time. Admittedly, an inexperienced or impatient person might think this is a crash , but it's really not.
f ox-1.5-buffer-overflow.txt (note that this is a text file. It needs to be changed to HTML and have a link clicked to work.)
P.S. The original code is found at http://packetstormsecurity.org/0512-exploits/fire
P.P.S. I'm using Firefox 1.5 on Windows XP SP2, both of them fully updated.
I realize that their vastly different games, but nintendo is still pggybacking on the popularity of thier established brands. Guess I should have made my point more clear.
Pikmin = valid point
Luigi's mansion = Mario
Donky Konga = (suprise!) Donky Kong
Animal Crossing = valid point
2 originals to the GPs 100. Great arguement.
Even with broadband, a game DVD is about 4.5GB, 9 if it's dual-layer (I don't know if XBOX 1 supports this or not but...)Granted, that's mostly animations and textures, but it's still going to be a huge download for complex physics and AI engines.
"There is usually a hardware emulation layer to fall back to when a call can't be translated. Famous emulators of this type include Wine and Executor"
I highly doubt wine has a hardware emulation layer, since a huge percentage of desktop Linux boxes are x86 or some compatible 64-bit architecture, and I doubt many servers would have the need to run windows software.
"It's VERY unlikely Microsoft could simply emulate every chip in the XBox1, the 360's CPU is simply not that powerful. It is impossible to emulate one CPU across multiple cores, so the 360 would be emulating a PIII 733MHz on a single core."
I'm fairly sure a 3+Ghz chip can emulate a 733Mhz one (celeron, not PIII, by the way), especially one with a smaller instruction set like x86(My parents 133Mhz celeron can emulate an N64, which is much more specialised and not-computer-like than the 360 will be, and my PC can do it plus some heavy texture up-scaling and anti-aliasing). The chips are hyper threaded, but I'd bet that can be disabled, if not by games than at least by the OS. Also, most likely one core would emulate the CPU, one core the GPU, and one core everything else.
"The clock speed of the 360 is impressive but the chip is EXTREMELY simplistic, it doesn't even support out of order execution."
Yes, it's simplistic, but so is the xbox CPU, and I'd guess that they're limited in mostly the same areas.
"This leaves Microsoft stuck rewriting Wine from scratch before November, and tweeking the emulator for each and every game."
As several people have already pointed out, they already have a x86-on-PPC emulator, Virtual PC. And the reason wine devs have so much trouble making wine work is that they don't know how windows works. I'd bet that the xbox devs know how the xbox works. Also, as someone has already pointed out, the nature of emulation is that when you get one game working, it makes lots of others start working, so they're not "tweeking the emulator for each and every game" don't assume that everything that applies to PC emulation applies to console emulation.
"I will bet you $10US that less than 20 games for the original XBox are officially supported on the XBox 360 by Microsoft when it launches in November."
$10? Is that supposed to make you seem sure of yourself?
execute as in "put into effect" not execute as in kill
IIRC, just saying someone should be killed is not illegal (no matter how serious you are), but having an actual plan that you intend to execute is.
In the US at least, most of the stuff like right to due process only applies to citizens
'Cause we've ad probes there for more than ten years?
When will they learn that the people who really want to will find a way around this stuff, and they're just screwing the majority of their customer base who "just want it to work"
An only moron?
Actually more of the thread was about that than about scholar itself.
How is this a response to what I said? I'm just saying the zenon-based beta devkit is faster than the G5 based alpha devkit, not that xbox 360 is faster than PS3
Not quite. Right now I'm seeing an annoying flash ad for vonage. The patent is for someone putting [vonagead] in a page and my computer displaying the file WITHOUT actually downloading it on the spot. In MSN messenger the :) is sent across the net and the receiving computer turns that into a cute and graphically advanced smiley that was installed locally with messenger itself
(sorry for the double post. they needed the same response)
The video game parallel is a lot closer, but actually the images aren't stored locally per se. the textures are stored locally, but the game engine compiles the actual image you see on screen on the spot. It's still alot too close for comfort, and I can see some technophobe judge not understanding the subtlties of it.
Not quite. Right now I'm seeing an annoying flash ad for centrino. The patent is for someone putting [centrinoad] in a page and my computer displaying the file WITHOUT actually downloading it on the spot. In MSN messenger the :) is sent across the net and the receiving computer turns that into a cute and graphically advanced smiley that was installed locally with messenger itself
So now we've graduated from MS bashing to religious bashing?
Ballmer doesn't always represent Microsoft as a whole (CEOs don't have absolute power) and his anti-Linux stance sometimes seems like a personal vendetta.
Anybody else think the repost time limit is a little low?(It's been 6 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment)
"1. If it's likely to make money for Microsoft, they'll sue. The only reason they won't sue it if it would probably fail in the courtroom."
On what do you base this opinion (other that the Linux bashing)
"Abusing a broken system is immoral and unethical. Microsoft have shown themselves to be both, which is why I will never buy or recommend their products."
Again, when has MS been more unethical than any other corporation?
That is exactly the opposite of what they're saying. The article references one person saying that "in some ways" they are slower, and 4 pages of people saying they're faster. The big deal with the XBox architecture was the way the GPU and CPU switched off loads and where the vectors were turned into pixels (This is from memory, so it may be slightly off. Don't flame me on a technicality). That wasn't available on the G5s, so even if the clock speed or the floating-point per sec. are slightly slower, the performance will still be much faster.
XBox Live is compromised? Exactly how? And compared to the competition (PS2 has almost noexistent online play, Gamecube is literally non-existent) XBox live is pretty superior.
"PC Gaming is why we have innovation, and why 90% of us buy new computers."
90% of who? all humans? slashdotters? Do businesses buy computers to entertain cubical dwellers? Is a forty year old housewife more likely buy a computer to play Doom 3, or to organize recipes? Don't assume that the people you know are representative of society. People tend to gravitate towards people that have similar motives and priorities. I agree with the innovation part, but just because a medium does something first doesn't mean it does it best.
"gaming is why we buy the latest processor when a P2 will do most jobs just fine."
No, we don't buy P2s because they don't make them anymore. And there are plenty of other uses for high end PCs: hardcore graphics editing is pretty close to the same requirement, and video editing in any reasonable resolution is well past gaming in some areas.
Age, Civ, The Sims, Starcraft and (I think) warcraft are all games in which you command large groups of people. This doesn't work well with the limited input on a console. In 3rd and 1st person games where you control 1 person it becomes a matter of preference. Personally I can't aim with a mouse, many people are equally bad with a controller. Doom 3 is available on consoles. As for Counterstrike, Quake, Deus Ex, Etc., how many people outside the hardcore gaming community play them, or even know about some of them? They simply don't have the mass appeal of games like Halo and GTA, not because the content is any worse (often it's better) but simply because they are PC games.
Network Interface Card card
"They had already offered to surrender, if the Emperor and his family would be left alive."
If this is truly the only stipulation they had, you've won the arguemnt, but i kinda doubt it since they were left alive, as the your point right before this one states.
"And within a year or two, Japan would be crushed by Soviet ground troops."
i've already pointed out that this would have left us with just another eastern europe to deal with.