Slashdot Mirror
Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi Nuke'
ninjee writes "Historians working in Germany and the US claim to have found a 60-year-old diagram showing a Nazi nuclear bomb.
It is the only known drawing of a "nuke" made by Nazi experts and appears in a report held by a private archive.
The researchers who brought it to light say the drawing is a rough schematic and does not imply the Nazis built, or were close to building, an atomic bomb.
But a detail in the report hints some Nazi scientists may have been closer to that goal than was previously believed.
The report containing the diagram is undated, but the researchers claim the evidence points to it being produced immediately after the end of the war in Europe. It deals with the work of German nuclear scientists during the war and lacks a title page, so there is no evidence of who composed it.
One historian behind the discovery, Rainer Karlsch, caused a storm of controversy earlier this year when he claimed to have uncovered evidence the Nazis successfully tested a primitive nuclear device in the last days of WWII. A number of historians rejected the claim.
The drawing is published in an article written for Physics World magazine by Karlsch and Mark Walker, professor of history at Union College in Schenectady, US."
Second, if you look at the diagram you'll see that it is initiated a gun-type trigger, something that is impossible for Pu. This makes the diagram look like the work of someone that doesn't know what they are doing. Maybe this was deliberate (though rather obvious) misinformation by a scientist who didn't want Hitler to get the bomb.
Third, it is undated, and unnamed, from an unknown source. Not worth even reading.
In any event, Germany had no means of effectively delivering such a weapon. They lacked the heavy aircraft which the USA used. The V2 rocket only had a fraction of the payload capacity needed. The best they could have done is load it on a cargo vessel and attempt to sail into someone's harbour. Or leave it behind in a city like Paris after retreating. Neither of which would have been terribly impressive, since they would be ground-bursts and not much different from a few tons of dynamite.
Slashdot monitor for your Mozilla sidebar or Active Desktop.
Godwin's Law invoked PRIOR to the first post!
Amazing!
That was fast...
This is great! There might be hope after all! Maybe in 60 years the US will find diagrams of WMD in Iraq!
If the Nazis had completed work on the nuclear bomb / rocket nuke then the world would be a very difrent place than it is today .
They most likely would have still lost the war , but the face of europe would be a very difrent one than it is today.
I suppose it is about time for another "What if " ww2 movie
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Rainer Karlsch, caused a storm of controversy earlier this year when he claimed to have uncovered evidence the Nazis successfully tested a primitive nuclear device in the last days of WWII. A number of historians rejected the claim. Hell, that's still more plausible than the evidence produced about about WMDs in Iraq. I say we invade Germany (again), just to be on the safe side.
It's no secret that Heisenberg worked on a nuclear weapon during the WWII. However, some claim that he deliberately didn't make any real progress. There's plenty of more information here.
Underholdning.info
Several unexploded WW2-era bombs are apparently being uncovered in east London. Supposedly the plan was for them to remain unexploded for a long period, then detonate, to act as Hitler's revenge long after the war was lost. Nasty.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
As mentioned elsewhere, the diagram is for a plutonium bomb (and according to the earlier poster, the diagram wouldn't have worked.) The Germans hadn't even gotten a fission reaction going by the end of the war, since they didn't know that purified sufficiently purified graphite could be used to produce slow neutrons, and they kept trying to use heavywater.
The German nuclear scientists were rounded up and kept for a few weeks at Farm Hall where they were secretly recorded. The transcripts of this were declassified less than a decade ago, and there's a lot of debate over whether Heisenberg was doing less than his level best to advance the Nazi nuclear project, or whether he had just made mistakes.
When the allied forces let him hear the news of Hiroshiima and Nagasaki, he was able, (several days later) to give a good description of what happened, though he overestimated the amount of fissionable material required.
Historical debate on what Heisenberg knew beforehand tends to focus on the several days he required to figure out how the whole thing was done and whether or not that time span is relevant.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
"Germany had no means of effectively delivering such a weapon"
% 20history/jet%20age/flying%20wings.htm
Oh dear you obviously didn't watch Indiana Jones and The Raiders of The Lost Ark:
http://www.century-of-flight.freeola.com/Aviation
Oh yeah and that 'borrowed' design was used for the Stealth Bomber.
I really don't think so. The US would have tested their A-bombs on Hamburg and Bremen instead of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. War ends, a few years pass, Germans and US-Americans are best buddies. (Cue Bob Dylans "With God On Our Side")
I suppose it is about time for another "What if " ww2 movie
Thanks, but no, thanks.
Kind regards, Udo Schmitz, Bremen, Germany
"Heisenberg was not aware of it," Dr Karlsch explained.
Yet he knew exactly how fast it was moving....
Java: the COBOL of the new millenium.
First of all, Hitler shrugged off nuclear physics as "Jewish Physics" and refused to have anything to do with it. And according to Albert Speer, Reichsminister for War and Armaments, the research to build a Nuclear bomb was in preliminary phases only. USSR knew that US was building an A-bomb and Stalin wanted one for himself too. That was the prime motive for Soviet Union's amazing drive towards Berlin. Anyway,let's be thankful that Hitler had no nukes or there would have been no Slashdot today :-)
Top secret documents mysteriously discovered in forgotten archives! History as we know it must be revised! Read all about it, etc.
For all I know, the document found could of course be both genuine and significant. But when it sounds a little to good to be true,...
Christian Engström, Former Member of the European Parliament 2009-2014 for The Pirate Party, Sweden
-sigh-
When quoting the article, maybe you can mention you are doing so? Or maybe the 'editors' failed to nitice the quote?
I don't suppose anyone who (unlike myself) has some German would care to translate the captions from the BBC's version of the drawing?
Thanks.
And I am an speling nazi (*narf*)
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
This is true.
Godwin's Law invoked PRIOR to the first post!
This is incredible! Someone obviously has the FAQ
--
Don\'t fight Firefox! Let FireFox fight YOU!
So, please someone tell me why in worst days of war, Germans send uranium to Japan in u234?
Also obvious, not secret that the cargo of u234 was used in Manhattan project.
(page picked random as text only it is)
http://www.ww2pacific.com/u-234.html
He claims to have stopped the scientists from developing the bomb any further - not because he was opposed to the concept if such a weapon (he certainly wasn't). The reason was that it was clear it would need much more time than was available in order to complete the work.
What was considered feasible was the idea of an "energy producing Uranium motor" for use in vehicles, and research was switched in that direction around 1944.
Antony Beevor's excellent book on the fall of Berlin also makes it clear that the Germans' nuclear research facilities were well known to the Russian's and were a major influence on Stalin's tactical decisions regarding Berlin. He was determined to obtain the fruits of this research.
The book also makes clear that Heisenburg did not try to sabotage the programme but was eager to succeed. This view is also backed up by the famous meeting between Heisenburg and Nils Bohr in Copenhagen in 1941 and Hesinburg's views at that time.
Of course even though one new where Heisenburg was in 1941 you could never tell what direction he was taking at that time.
Nazis!
I hate these guys.
WAV file here.
3D Printing Tips and Tricks at Zheng3.com
OTOH, my great-uncle might have not been the sole survivor of his regiment of several thousand men - yes, he was a Nazi, but he was a field medic, got hepatitus, and got evacced... Lucky!
Duke Nukem is a Nazi? I suppose Fuzzy Wuzzy is a woman then too?
In the Slashdot moderating system, humourless based offenses are considered especially heinous.
that fascists with nuclear bombs is a bad thing...
how about a theocracy with nuclear bombs (tehran)?
or a tyrant with nuclear bombs (pyongyang)?
what will it take for the world to do something decisive about these regimes and their (soon to be) nuclear arsenals? a nuclear signature over los angeles or madrid?
i fear that to be the case
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Read 'The Man in the High Castle' by Philip K Dick, it explores an alternate reality in which the combined Germano-Japanese forces won the war.
Excellent book
We've discovered war criminals every couple of months for the last 60 years. Why can we just find a nazi scientist and ask them?
World War 2 brought along radar, jet, microwaves and atomic bombs - probably much more and early computers. All in five years. That's a lot of progress. What if WW2 never happened, how would our life been?
So what I wonder: Isn't it strange that wartime is the best time for scientific progress? Do we really need war to focus our minds and resources in this way?
Too much Star Wars he watched has.
Germany invested a lot in rocketry research, and the V2 wasn't the only thing the had designed.
Ballistic missiles are known by everyone because of the cold war hype, but with that era's technology and bearing in mind that they didn't need to go all the way to america with it, a cruise missile is where it's at. I.e., a rocket with wings. You don't have to launch the thing upwards with a rocket to hit Britain from France, you can just as well launch it horizontally or on a flat arc and use wings to provide the needed lift. Like the V-1 did, for example.
And they did research and build just that too: rockets with wings.
The Me-163 Komet for example was an interceptor aircraft with a liquid-fuel rocket (not turbojet) engine. It reached a speed of approximately 600 mph (almost 1000 km/h) and had a maximum range of about 80 km.
Nasty thing and more dangerous for the pilot than for the enemy, but to chuck a small bomb without a pilot across the channel it would have worked outstandingly.
And I have no doubt that, if they absolutely needed to chuck a 4 ton bomb (the weight of the hiroshima bomb), they could have slapped 2, 3 or 4 of those engines on an airframe with bigger wings.
It's a lot easier to design such a one-shot contraption, when you don't have to worry about being able to land safely, or about structural damage during flight. It can, for all you care, come apart at the end, as long as it does it on the other side of the channel.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
From what I can tell, it looks to be a straightforward version of the "gun design" used in the Hiroshima bomb, which a) is so obvious that I think even I could have figured out the basic concept, and b) won't work with real plutonium as Pu-240 contamination will cause the weapon to blow itself to bits before enough of the plutonium has fissioned. So, even if it was true, they had a very long way to go before they could have made a bomb.
An implosion design, by contrast, would be a much bigger deal, though as I understand it just having the idea is a very long way from making it work.
Two final things: one of the reasons why the Nazis never got very far on their nuclear weapons project is that they could never get a reactor working; one of the key reasons for that was their supply of heavy water was kept from them by Norwegian partisans working with British SOE. Their story is a pretty amazing one.
And finally, while it's not possible to make a plutonium gun bomb now; it should be possible in the very distant future. Pu-240 (the contaminant) has a much shorter half-life (about 6500 years) than Pu-239 (about 24,100 years). So, over (lots of) time, the proportion of the Pu-240 should gradually reduce. So maybe these Germans were just a little ahead of their time...
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
In 1939 Einstein warned the president that the Germans were likely to develop the atomic bomb. That warning is supposed to have led to the Manhattan project. So, do I think a German diagram of an atomic bomb is plausible. Of course.
www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAeinstein.htm
GP is just plain bollox
If I wanted to refine weapons grade fuel, and money was no object, I'd set up a distributed system for doing it in as many places as possible without anyone knowing about it. The ideal method would be to conceal the refining apparatus inside something which is used by the general public every day, consumes significantly more energy than the refining process, lasts for a longish time and has to be recycled at an approved special facility when it is done with.
..... and you aren't allowed to dispose of those in landfill anymore in many countries .....
Now, for successful electrostatic separation of uranium isotopes, you'd need a high vacuum environment and a very high voltage, low current power supply. Such as you would get in a cathode ray tube, for instance
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
So we finally did find Weapons of Mass Destruction?
Robert Oschler - RobotsRule.com
A Nazi world better? It would have been a world full of blonde, blue-eyed people listening to nothing but Strauss & Wagner. This achieved at an unimaginable price in human suffering and death. So - no, it would not have been better. Unless of course the above appeals to you?
--- Yx3 = Delilah ---
That is not a gun-type trigger. That part that looks like a firing pin is actually more plutonium, which on impact will be fired into the larger mass of plutonium; thus creating a critical mass. It's the same principle that is used in all atomic bombs, and so it actually seems that they did know what they were doing.
I don't know whether the parent was making a subtle joke or not, but I do like the appearance of yet another bad wolf reference in dr who. Good old babelfish.
I can't wait for the series finale now!
In 1945 the Germans put their supply of uranium on a submarine, with the intention of delivering it to the Japanese. I imagine a dirty bomb would have been the most likely purpose. More information here.
Nobody knew about those properties of radioactive materials in WWII. That is one of the reasons the US decided to use nuclear bombs on Japan. You have to remember that bombing was amazingly imprecise back then. If you wanted to take out military bases and industrial production in a city you pretty much leveled the city trying to do so. Bombing strategy was to drop a whole mess of bombs in the general area (we are talking like quare mile here) of your target. By chance some of them would hit it.
So the appeal of the atomic bomb wasn't it's additonal features, those were unknown. It was just thought to be a really big bomb. Rather than needing to send hundreds of bombers and dropping tens of thousands of bombs, you could send in just one bomber and drop one bomb. You'd risk a lot less assets, eliminate targets much faster, and save lives (yours at least) and money.
You also have to remember that, even had it been known what a direty bomb was, nobody would have been impressed. For one thing direty bombs are pretty fucking worthless militarily. Most radio active elements, but particularly the ones we are tlaking about here (uraunium and plutonium) are very, very heavy materials. This means their airborne time is very low. Well if you just spread them around, you really aren't going to cause a lot of effect. They need to get inside people to do real damage, or people need prolonged exposure. Just being externally exposed to a little uranium lying somewhere near you won't do much.
Also you have to remember this was a very, very dirty war. It was pretty much no holds barred. Gas attacks of various kinds, of example, were used. Civilians died all the time just due to the nature of war. As I said, you'd take out an entire city to try and take out it's infastructure. So if you managed to make a few hundred people sick with radation poisining, oh well, big deal, people were dying all the time from the war.
Excellent.
I'm currently reading Karlsch's latest book "Hitlers Bombe" which unfortunately has not been tranlated in English yet.Anyway in this book he's done very good work demonstrating that the Germans were VERY actively conducting nuclear research during the war.They even had a comittee working on the concept of nuclear weapons before the U.S had the faintest idea of what they were about (early 1939).What the germans did wrong was that instead of building a giant research/production complex (like the US did with the Manhattan project) they let various institutes/authorities start individual projects between which there was erratic and irregular cooperation.Research was conducted by the Karl Wilhelm Institute for Chemistry in Berlin, the HWA (Heereswaffenamt...Army Weapons Authority?..or something like that :D),the German Post Ministry (!) ,the Navy,companies like Siemens and Degussa and several other individuals and insitutions.This obviously led to research slowing dowm and ressources being wasted.Now..as to the germans lacking in raw materials ,this is not entirely right since they had the oldest european Uranium mines in Joachimstal ,belgian mines in africa (after they conquered Belgium) and of course the norwegian heavy water production facility of the "Norsk Hydro" company(as norway was under their control as well).Karlsch also demonstrates they did built a reactor which nevertheless was rather imperfect and could not enrich uranium to the extent they required.In the end he claims that research which was recently conducted in the region of Thueringen proves the detonation of a *radioactive* bomb.Combining various elements (information from russian archives,eyewitness reports etc) he estimates that this was most likely a "tactical" fission/fusion nuclear weapon.
Du kan glomma dina ensama stunder, du kan lita paa teknikens under - Wilmer X
Didn't Lucas Arts do a game about that? "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe" Though I read a little about the real Secret Weapons, and about how they were developing blended wing-body aircraft, and were a fair way toward stealth. For instance, radar-absorbing glue in the plywood, and engines buried in the body. They didn't clarify whether the stealthiness was deliberate or accidental.
On a different note, we have this abiding urge to build flying saucers, and have made many poor attempts. Imagine for a moment that there really are ETs, and they really did fly saucers around Earth. (One sf book claims they were alien adolescents buzzing us, stirring up trouble by being seen.) Then let them see our attempts to make flying saucers - and wonder if they think we're all cargo cultists.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
If you look at the diagram on this page, there seems to be what looks like a date on the upper right side. It seems to say "Halteose fur AS/12/44". Any ideas what that means?
Also, the associated article states that the bomb appears to be a hybrid fission/fusion device, which was far more advanced than the two fission-only devices used on Japan.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
If Hitler was a complete madman, you would think he would have used chemical weapons on the invading Russians. The 2 sides had basically brutalized each other, themselves and anyone who got in their way for 4 years... the only answer must be they lacked the means of delivery?
Great. So some engineering student in Nazi Germany got bored and drew some doodles and now there's "proof" that the Nazis were on the brink of producing nuclear weapons and now every blog or slashdot comment about Nazis will claim that Nazis had nuclear weapons.
Really? You say he was a Nazi, but if he was with the WherMacht, he wasn't, that was just drafted personel. He probably has a few stories to tell though?
Ummm the current world was achieved at an "unimaginable price in human suffering and death" too. The Allies winning the war didn't erase any of that. FURTHERMORE had say, the U.S. not gotten involved, the Nazi's could have ended the war more quickly and caused a LOWER amount of "human suffering and death".
Think before you speak.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
Firestorms
Ok, sorry, poor phrasing - he fought for the Nazis, as a member of the Wehrmacht - not a member of the political party, which I suppose defines someone as being a Nazi. He wrote his memoirs last year, so I should probably read them - they're entirely in german however. In fact, all the more reason to read them :)
The Germans had an atomic weapons program to the extent that there were special groups of American soldiers at Normandy (on D Day) with geiger counters.
They were taking it seriously then.
Nobody knew about those properties of radioactive materials in WWII.
There is a well recorded event during the nuclear research in Germany during WWII where an accident happened and many researchers died of radiation poisoning. And while I don't know for sure, I assume that the western researchers also knew of the dangers of radiation, since even Marie Curie had suffered from radiation poisoning. Most probably no one expected there to be so much from a bomb, however.
Also you have to remember this was a very, very dirty war. It was pretty much no holds barred. Gas attacks of various kinds, of example, were used.
Poison gas was NOT used by any side in WWII. It was in WWI where poison gasses were used by both sides.
No, I believe that's BS. I was in the navy and I worked on bombs (including the MK 20 Rockeye and the APAM). I was an Aviation Ordnanceman 2nd class. I know what I'm talking about.
There were ignition failures in submunitions (but nowhere near 50%) but those failed bomblets would not be sensitive enough to detonate from someone stepping on them or driving over them after surface impact. A bigger problem is failure to function in the fuse that forces separation in the casing and releases the bomblets.
There was a weapon (called Gator) that dropped landmines as submunitions, but it was never popular because of the strong resentment against landmine usage in general.
This reminds me of the belief that the US planted tracking chips in printers and monitors that were being sold to Iraq before the first Gulf War so that the US could more accurately bomb those offices. It's not just wrong, it's conceptually stupid.
The mystery of The German Bomb is explained in its entirety here .
Just some strategically placed oil reserves!
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Until of course the Nazis decide that your particular racial heritage becomes a bad thing. Instead of stopping the suffering at the end of WWII, the Nazis would have continued it forever.
The Aryan Master Race
Website
After all, wasn't it US fear that Germany was working on the bomb the very impetus for the Manhattan Project?
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I'd like to thank the three highly modded posts which chain I'm replying to. Three intelligent, well formed posts with a common discussion and no one resorted to namecalling!
They had a very informative special on Discovery about Germany and the nuclear research during WW2. The story about the uranium on a sub and the other story about the entire shipment of heavy water being sunk in a lake set them so far back they couldn't catch up again. Things like this in history are probably why it was unanimous to decide to do something about Iraq when they thought they were building WMDs. If Germany had waited a few short years they would have been quite a bit more lethal.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one the bus load of girls just went down.
If you look at the top of the figure, you'll see what appears to be the title "URANBOMBE TYPE II".
This is weird. For one, the figure itself identifies the fissile material as plutonium. For two, it makes you wonder what TYPE I might have been.
--Tom
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
It's pretty easy to guess based on that they did before hand, and what they wrote about. Mass extermination of Jews, Gypsies, Communists, homosexuals and the handicapped. An unelected government, state control of media and commerce, propaganda, police state, slave labour of the non-Aryans, using land outside Germany as living space.
I'm sure it would be have full employment, low crime and the trains run on time, though most people wouldn't see that as much of a trade off.
It probably wouldn't have been dissimilar from Stalin's USSR or Mao's China or, well insert and dictatorship that killed large numbers of its own people. Brutal totalitarian regimes tend to follow a pattern really.
Better? No. Only if they got overthrown and something better came along, so it was better inspite of them, not becuase of them.
No wonder germans lost the war - The comment above shows stupidity and ignorance. I pity the germans...
I see you are ignoring what the Germans (and Japanese) did with places they invaded. It wasn't like the killing and suffering stopped at the point the fighting did.
You also seem to be neglecting the USSR. The highest death toll was on the Russian Front. If the US hadn't gotten involved Europe may well have ended up Communist. Stalin probably wouldn't have stopped at Germany when 'liberating' countries. Though it may have taken longer the USSR may well have beaten Germany even if the USA hadn't gotten involved, although possibly taking them longer and with higher casualties.
Of course there has been "unimaginable human suffering and death" since WWII, but at least we don't have to add millions more in concentration camps to it.
It wasn't unanimous to do something about Iraq. The UN did not agree, the US just went ahead and invaded anyway. If it was unanimous then the UN would have agreed.
An the biggest JOKE of all is that none of the racial superiority theory made sense - In fact Aryans existed in India and their language was Sanskrit. In fact, Aryan is a sanskrit word meaning "Noble" and the only noted reference to Aryans are in Hindu scriptures (Vedas).Adding insult to injury, the Swastika they used was also "stolen" from India. Swastika is also a sanskrit word. So "racially superior" people did not have the brains to even be original.
"You will stop attacking Immediately. Our words are BACKED BY drawings OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS!"
Well the theory that there was a connection between early European people and the Aryans in India was not invented by the Nazis, nor is it entirely impossible. As for "swastika" being a Sanskrit word - the Nazi's didn't use that word, they called it "Hakenkreuz". The swastika is around in lots of cultures, as you would expect from such a simple symbol. (You still find it today on icelandic fish trawlers etc.) Of course, the swastika does not necessarily indicate any connection to nazism, though obviously it's use by Hitler has led to large numbers of people disliking it.
Part of Germany's problem in bringing weapons from the drawing board to full production was that Hitler didn't trust having large numbers of scientists collaborating together and sharing ideas...fear of conspiracies and all. That meant that you had many small teams of scientists who were competing for funds and, in some cases, unintentionally reinventing each other's work.
Personal rivalries and dwindling resources had a hand in that as well.
The end result is that there were a lot of intriguing and sometimes brilliant design ideas in WWII Germany--long range jet bombers, jet fighters, even what we today would call a spaceplane--but very few of them actually saw production, let alone combat.
There was a fascinating program on the History Channel that speculated on what might have happened had Germany been able to stay in the war for two more years. The program raised the question of the Horten flying wing design coupled with jet engine technology to deliver a fission bomb to NYC.
Anakin Simpson: If you're not with me, then you're my enemy--ooh, donuts!
The experiment is more than a little risky - you're not going to accidentally make a bomb, but you're likely to kill yourself and anybody in the room with you from radiation poisoning. The experiment was called tickling the dragon's tail for that reason, and several people died in the process.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
In _The Rocket and the Reich_, historian Michael Neufeld pointed out that Germany spent about the same fraction of its wartime GDP on rocketry (including V-1, Wasserfall AA, etc) as the US did on the Manhattan Project.
Even if they had avoided scientific, technological and organizational dead ends, it's almost impossible to imagine they could have come up with additional resources for a German Hanford, Oak Ridge and Los Alamos.
>
> We would have: SCHRAEGSTRICHPUNKT! Nachrichten für Sonderlingen! Sachen von Bedeutung! instead. Ayeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Das Schrägstrichpunkt is nicht fuer das portmangritten und goatseposten. Ist easy droppenpacket der routers und machen sie 503-errorn mit der trollenpost unt der Soviet-reversen. Ist nicht fuer gewerken bei das dumbkopfen. Das craksmoken moderateren keepen das mausclicken hans in das pockets muss! Relaxen und watchen das blinkenlights.
Just imagine if the Nazis had gotten ahold of an atomic bomb. They might've used it to kill civilians, maybe even strike a couple of large cities!
Oh. Wait. Never mind.
You see, we're putting the coversheets on all German nuclear weapons reports now before they go out. Did you see the memo about this?
Recent historic documents have come to light that France is still not convinced of the threat posed by Hitler and should be given more time to come in line with UN Resolutions!
(yeah, probably flamebait, but I thought it was funny)
Remember what Fatman and Littleboy where..
One was a "Type-I" or Uranium Fueled, and the other was "Type-II" or Plutonium.
I don't believe they had the "Science" to build one, but they sure had the theory (Stolen more then likely)
Ref: www.atomicmuseum.com/tour/dd2.cfm
No, it would have been worse. The Nazis were very much into systematic killing; those other regiemes were quite random and didn't go in for genocide as such. Hitler wanted, quite literally, an Aryan world; that would require the extermination of most of the world's population.
Me (Blog)
In the lest five years I have seen several reports about this incidents on TV and even the german goverment has started to investige this matter very closely.
There are three recorded unexplained and very large explosions on german soil, two in Thueringen one month before surrendering to the russians and one three months later a bit away which then was a russian military compound.
All three ran around one kiloton but instead of huge amounts of destruction they seemed to release a huge amount of energy in form of light and radiation.
Around the location there are several strange nuclear testing-reactors spread over 30km.
Several hundred people have seen the mushroom-clouds because it was launched only five kilometers from the next village. The area was closed by russians for the next 40 years, all involved people detained in russia and even the soil of the explosion-area was removed two meters deep. Therefore you find only small but still unusual amounts of radiation. On the other hand the country of Thueringen has by far the highest amount of radiation in whole europe right after Tschernobyl. Something really did happen back then
But in fact noone knows for sure what happened there. 40 years of sowjet intelligence have whipped out absolutly every little detail.
"Life is short and in most cases it ends with death." Sir Sinclair
A better world. Are you totally out of your tiny little mind?
Me (Blog)
Openheimer, Feynbaum, and all the others who built the bomb were surely the best informed of its radioactive dangers. Yet they stood out in the open air with nothing more than sunglasses for protection, I think something crazy like just a mile away, when the single test bomb was exploded. Almagorado (sp?), July 16th, I think.
Either they were suicidal or ignorant, which leads to the obvious conclusion that no way could anyone reasonably expect the military to know more than the scientists.
Infuriate left and right
It's actually quite likely that fewer people would have died in war. This would be offset by billions dying in concentration camps, though.
Me (Blog)
"I'm telling you Indie, the damned Nazi's are working on sme kind of Super Bomb.
Faith: n. -- That human impulse that drives them to steal appliances when the power goes out
Yeah, since i got modded down all day, I don't care to burn some more karma ...
Why is it (physics) that you can't have a shotgun type Pu yet can have a shotgun type U bomb?
Bert
"There is no baby. She wasn't even pregnant."
What?
Now..as to the germans lacking in raw materials ,this is not entirely right since they had the oldest european Uranium mines in Joachimstal ,belgian mines in africa (after they conquered Belgium) and of course the norwegian heavy water production facility of the "Norsk Hydro" company(as norway was under their control as well).
I wasn't quite listening during the history lessons, but I missed the part where The Third Reich ruled Belgian Kongo. According to Wikipedia, the United States got a lot of uranium from Belgian Kongo during WWII http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Congo, possibly indicating the germans weren't in control there.
The arguments have an air of desperation to them - in the Japanese case one US reporter finds one Japanese military man, in the Nazi case Heisenberg couldn't have simply got the numbers wrong. Fascism is strong, 'liberals' are weak, so how come a bunch of 'jews' were so far ahead?
Did anyone notice the rough, draft-like rocket-fin drawings?
Anyone who knows anything about German craftsmanship knows that drawing is a fake.
It occurs to me that there may be a large percentage of Slashdot readers to whom nuclear war may not have the... relevance it did for my generation.
I guess I'm getting old....
Oddly enough, it turns out that nuclear weapons are a profoundly *stabilizing* influence on the countries that have them, if their immediate neighbours (and "neighbor" is defined by the reach of the delivery system, not so much geographic proximity)
The strategy is called "Mutually Assured Destruction" and boils down to this: if you nuke me, I'll nuke you, and enough of my weapons and delivery systems will survive such that I can ensure the complete destruction of your country, even if you achieve complete suprise"
Ever wonder why there are nuclear bombers, missiles, and submarines? That's the "nuclear triad" - you might take out any two of the legs, but the third will survive, and each carries enough destrctive power on its own to see MAD through, if required.
MAD ensures that there is no way to carry out a nuclear first strike without yourself being utterly immolated in the process. Any attack is thus an act of suicide.
This is so crazy that it works. It has kept the nuclear genie firmly imprisoned in its bottle since 1945, and I think that the threat of potential escelation of non-nuclear conflict amongst nuclear-armed nations to nuclear exchange has drastically limited the scope and intensity of wars since.
It hasn't been a perfect ride (Vietnam in particular was a mess largely created through one nuclear power misunderstanding the motives of another - see the documentary "Fog of War" for more on this) but consider the death tolls due to war from 1900-1945 to the same from 1946-2005. Not even close.
I predict, for example, that if the Soviet Union had not gotten nuclear weapons as quickly as they did, that there was a nontrivial probability that the US would have attacked the Soviet Union in the '50s. Both potential combatants having nuclear weapons almost certainly avoided another ground war in Europe.
Which brings us to the case of Iran and North Korea.
When more states gain access to nuclear weapons, that increases the probability that these weapons may actually get used; that is true. When these weapons are in the hands of leaders who may not be entirely stable (North Korea in particular) the situation becomes even more troublesome.
But consider this - I doubt that either state sees nukes as an offensive weapon. They know full well that any use of a nuke will almost certainly result in the obliteration of their own country. It is unlikely that either nation is that suicidal.
Instead, having nukes gives them the deterrant against invasion. Both states have the example of Iraq in front of them. If the US chose to invade conventionally, neither nation is likely to be able to stand for long. If, however, they have nukes, then they can do enough damage in a short enough time that perhaps they can make invasion too costly to consider; a deterrent.
The US, of course, opposes this, because they are the ones being deterred. A North Korea or Iran with nukes may be immunne from invasion (where now they are merely resistant) and the US would likely prefer to retain its freedom to invade if it felt it were to become necessary.
So while I'm opposed to the idea of more countries getting access to nukes, on the principle that that increases the number of people who could potentially use them, I am forced to admit that stability might *increase* if more countries were capable of utilizing nuclear force.
DG
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
It's titled "Uranbombe" yet it uses plutonium, which the Germans didn't know you could produce from the transmutation of U-235, and for which no natural supply exists. The Germans did not have a fission reactor to produce it. Further the bomb is a gun-type rather than an implosion sphere, which only works with uranium, not plutonium. If you read anything about the actual designs the Germans were pursuing, they were in reality pursuing neither design which were both American creations. Further, the design is a hybrid fission/fusion device which didn't come around until much later under Edward Teller, and the Germans and Heisenberg certainly weren't pursuing that, either.
Looks like a fake from some guy with Photochop that doesn't really understand nuclear physics.
Members of the UN were making to much money off of the oil for food program to even think about doing anything about Iraq.
... being that land mines in Vietnam and Cambodia weren't DESIGNED to remain unexploded for a long period. In fact, the ones that did remain unexploded represent a failure of mechanisms in place (in some types of mine) to self-destruct or self-inactivate after a certain period of time. Not only would there be no military advantage in designing them to remain unexploded, the weapons would actually be more dangerous to the mine-employing force itself than conventional mines would be.
Sean
Look, this is already known. The concept and means of creating an atomic bomb was the brainchild of a woman working in a Nazi lab. Hitler kicked her out because she was Jewish! Her co-workers protested, stating that she was the brains of the outfit. But he wouldn't listen and she was turfed.
She then submitted a paper that was published in a scientific journal. Only very advanced physicists could infer what she was hinting at, among them Einstein, who figured he had to tell the President but figured he had no way to get close to the President. But someone else did. And the Manhattan Project was an outgrowth of that.
Something to think about. A few things actually.
Astro
(burn karma burn)
that fascists with nuclear bombs is a bad thing...
how about a theocracy with nuclear bombs (US ruled by christian right)?
or a tyrant with nuclear bombs (US ruled by... um... christian right)?
what will it take for the world to do something decisive about these regimes and their (soon to be) nuclear arsenals? a nuclear signature over los angeles or madrid?
i fear that to be the case
Or did the Germans ship it overland to North Africa, and somehow smuggle it across the Mediterranean?
Now that's a thought! The overland route through Sahara starts at Timbuktu and lands at the Mediterranean shore some eight weeks later. It was once one of the most important trade routes and made Timbuktu a rich and might city and a center of scholarship. However, the overland route was rendered obsolete by the Portuguese in the 15th century when they demonstrated that it actually was much quicker and cheaper to ship goods around Africa (who'd have thought...) and Timbuktu hasn't quite recovered yet. Camel caravans still come in with hewn slabs of salt from the mines up north, but it is not quite the same.
Now imagine the Touareg transporting Uranium for the Germans during WWII! I sense a plot for an upcoming Indiana Jones style film! (And imagine the poor camels...)
Incidentally, a plutonium gun bomb, as shown, would fizzle. The core won't stay together long enough for the chain reaction to progress far enough to get a significant yield. That's why so much work was put into developing the implosion bomb.
The problem with referring to US towns and cities as "Schenectady, US" is that there could be so many places with that name... Why did they not say Schenectady, New York, US? Too long?
"Fear is a great motivator."
Maybe that's why Linux is so far ahead.
Bummer for Kirk though.
get your news from Republican talking points? :P
No one was making more money busting embargos than American companies, and no one stood to benefit more financially than American companies by invading Iraq, hence the invation. Hell, Cheyney's own company is raking it in, but noooooooo, that's just a coincidence, right Mr. Republican?
You're right in that it's mostly about greed, but you've got the countries mixed up.
"It's interesting to know that there are people who even justify dropping an atomic bomb."
Considering what we knew at the time during world war II, I would say there are probably some would justify dropping the bomb back then (and not just one, but two). I am not sure if I would "justify" it, but I certainly would not unequivically condemn it either, considering what we knew about "The Bomb" back then and the circumstances of the War at the time.
If you tool the time to talk to some Veterans (those who are still alive now, anyway) who served in the Pacific Ocean nearing the end of World War II, you would know the following:
* Emperor Hirohito had no real command or influence over the the Japanese Army, the Generals were fully in charge and answerable to no one but each other
* Japan was the last major holdout to victory for the United States in WWII. Hitler's Army (or what was left of it) had already capitulated, but the Japanese were still "recruiting" boys who could barely see over the cockpit to die for their country in Kamakazi flights that had become less and less effective as the US Navy learned to adapt to it during the War.
* Despite increasing losses, Japan showed little sign of surrendering (to save it's Honor). As the US military came closer to mainland Japanese soil, island by island, the Japanese Army fought tooth and nail to make the US pay for each step it took.
* In considering wether or not to drop "The Bomb," President Truman, with the advice and assistance of the Army, took a good hard look at how many American (and to some extent Japanese) lives would be lost if the US had to press all the way to the mainland and deep into the Heart of Japan to force a surrender. Seeing the numbers, he ultimately gave the go-ahead.
* Even after Hiroshima was completely destroyed, it took the Destruction of Nagasaki days later to force what then became a U.S. Demand for an unconditional surrender.
So all in all, if you asked the average American citizen what they thought of the matter, many might - like you imply, say it was the single greatest mistake the United States ever made.
But if you ask a WWII Vet who served in the pacific, you might get some different feelings.
Anyway, I would suggest you do some more research at the following site, for example, before you make such statements in the future without backup: http://www.nuclearfiles.org/hitimeline/1945.html.
uR iGn0ranc3, Their Power
Behold the might of the Babelfish translator!
Point of diagonal stroke is not for the portmangritten and goatseposten. Is easy droppenpacket routers and makes it for 503-errorn with trollenpost unt the that Soviet reversen. Is not for trades with the dumbkopfen. Craksmoken more moderate keepen mausclicken Hans in pockets must! Relaxen and watchen blinkenlights.
"What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
From atomicmuseum.com
"The Race for the Atomic Bomb Begins 1939-1941
World War II started September 1, 1939, when Germany attacked Poland. By 1941, the Germans were leading the race for the atomic bomb. They had a heavy-water plant, high-grade uranium compounds, a nearly complete cyclotron, capable scientists and engineers, and the greatest chemical engineering industry in the world."
Bigbowser.
My physics professor at the University of Nevada Reno, the late Samuel Goudsmit (best known as co-discoverer of the electron's spin), was technical lead on the ALSOS project immediately after World War II. His team went into Berlin and certain other areas shortly after the Allies captured them, in order to sieze any Nazi nuclear material and atom bomb research. They found lots of stuff, then spent a few months studying it closely.
As described in the Wikipedia article (and in Goudsmit's 1947 book, ALSOS: The failure of German science), the Germans never got even remotely close to developing an A-bomb. Their approach to the physics was fundamentally mistaken and would never have led to anything workable. Good news for civilization, bad news for alternate-history writers and sensationalist journalists, but in any case conclusively settled. Goudsmit was a smart guy and knew his stuff.
It's not widely known, but nonetheless there is very strong evidence for the Nazis pursuing a range of extremely advanced technologies during the 2nd world war.
/. reader might find wacky, but for which there is much conclusive evidence. Anti-gravity and zero-point energy were two of the prime examples.
Nick Cook, highly respected aviation editor of the international defence industry's leading Janes Defence magazine put 10 years of unique and groundbreaking research into his book "The Hunt For Zero Point" (see Amazon.com), and found the Nazis to have been working on all sorts of stuff that your typical "conservative"
What's more it's proven and disclosed fact that the US' Operation Paperclip at the end of the war both brought back leading Nazi scientists involved in this work to the US, employing them and giving them immunity to war crimes prosecution AND brought back technology in various stages of completion. These scientists then went on to drive the development of the atomic bomb. If you want to pursue this "line of questioning" there is also extremely strong evidence that they contributed to anti-gravity and zero-point energy research in the US, and launched black project efforts under the wing of the military industrial complex that continue to this day (and no, this is not conspiracy theory nonsense!). "Disclosure" by Dr. Steven Greer is the book to read here (Amazon.com also), or check out http://www.disclosureproject.org/
Watched a documentary (Discovery?) recently that talked about US plans to invade Japan in WWII before the Japanese surrendered. The parent poster I believe is right, as the US had planned at one point on using a-bombs to take out japanese resistance on the beaches, and immediately afterwards send in US troops to secure the beach heads. I could imagine a plan like that causing the invasion to end just as it was getting started.
Maybe some technical progress can be made during a war, but for *science* to progress, peacetime is much better.
Science relies on free exchange and distribution of knowledge. In war time discoveries are kept secret and thus can not be freely distributed.
An unelected government, state control of media and commerce, propaganda, police state, slave labour of the non-Aryans, using land outside Germany as living space.
Actually, Hitler was elected into power.
He just took advantage of Hindenburg's death to stay in power and consolodate control and just murdered anyone who disagreed and made sure only his party members could be elected from then on out.
Second, the average German didn't have it bad off compared to say the average Russian or Chinese. Free enteprise was still welcome and you basically did what you pleased except not disagree with the government or avoid military service. There was a healthy middle class and most people did often grumble about certain subjects without fear of reprisals.
Before 1944 (before the assasination attempt by the officers) most higher up people could get into an heated argument with Der Fuer and live to tell the tale. Although you may get fired like Feild Marshal Guderian only to get hired back at the end of war because things are going badly. People could have complaints and semi-open dissent about certain things (however I seriously doubt anyone would say outloud in public that Der Fuer was and idiot like they could say Goering. Hitler used infighting and one could criticize his lackies as long as it didn't critizize him.)
Of course after the bomb attempt, it wasn't a good idea to voice concern about the possibility that the OKW was going to loose the war or just anything negative since everyone was on the suspect list. Well except Eva and his dog...
Sure you couldn't listen to Jazz music and the Allied bombers sort of made life unpleasant and you'd get shot if you mention that you thought the war was lost.
But over all it would be like living in comfortable western nation where people were generably reasonable up to a point.
Now if you were a minority or suspected political deviant. Well... Life wasn't that great.
This is opposed to life in Soviet Russia and China where everyone was suspect and people got hauled off in the middle of the night for no reason even though they were Stalin's/Mao's right hand man the day before... That and mass starvation on the general populace...
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
When are you people gonna get it? WWII didnt really happen, all the german people were on vacation, and invited into Poland.
Uh, when exactly was it "unanimous" to invade Iraq? I seem to recall millions of people being against it.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
I could figure out more of that myself, and I learned all of my German from Hogan's Heros.
The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
And the fight is far from over..
Amerika didn't win the war, Germany *lost* it.. that is a BIG differnce, because it leaves the door open for future continuene of the conflicts.
AHHND, there is ABSOLUTELY no difference between the ambitions of the Germans (to win the war, with/without nukes) and our (Amerika & allies) to threaten the inilation of the world with nukes (eg.Japan) if people don't accept *our brand of Freedom*. In fact, the latter seems more absurd, vicious and evil.
It is obviouse that the *winners* write history, old greivances still fester, and there is absolutely NO difference whether the whole human race was *forced* into blond & blued people, or what is happening today with *multiculturism*, which destroys ALL races & culture.. :)
I will gladly loose all of life's battles.. in order to win the war..
They would have done with the bomb what the US did?
In 60 years, I'll be famous! Hurray!
I have the pictures on one of my web sites:
Project Gutenberg Photos and Maps of Trinity [Atomic Test] Site
During these late days of research, a certain Landser named Gunther Freimann stumbled on a dazed scientist during the fall of Berlin. The scientist claimed to have a Resonanzkaskadevorrichtung ("resonance cascade device") which had to be protected from capture. It was part of an early effort to create EMP (electro-magnetic pulse) weapons to knock allied bombers from the sky. But something had gone wrong and caused a dimensional warp. Landser Freimann almost destroyed the device, but it was acquired by a shadowy figure known only as the "Government Man". It was taken back to the United States, where it became the basis for research at Black Mesa starting it the '50s.
Landser Freimann apparently also moved to the United States after the war, where he changed his last name to "Freeman". It is rumored he had one son.
Insightful and/or Interesting
I'm a signature virus. Please copy me to your signature so I can replicate.
> it was unanimous to decide to do something about Iraq when they thought they were building WMDs
No one "thought" they were building WMD's. They KNEW that they weren't, so the administration replaced the intelligence apparatus with another one that gave him the answer he was looking for.
The public sure "thought" so. Those in the position to know had already been briefed to the contrary.
May I borrow you tinfoil hat for a while?
Rediculous is ridiculous!
I'm unsure if this is true or not in the aformentioned cases (NK & Iran), but if the leaders who hold the keys don't care about their populace mutually assured destruction doesn't do squat...
I think an approximate historical analogy might be Rome and Carthage, but perhaps that is not quite the right balance...
Things like this in history are probably why it was unanimous to decide to do something about Iraq when they thought they were building WMDs.
Yes, FUD is a powerful motivator.
Load CNN.COM, Cut, Load SLASHDOT.ORG, Paste
We'll try to stay serene and calm
When Alabama gets the bomb.
(Tom Lehrer's Who's Next?)
heavy water is for hydrogen bombs i highly doubt germany (or anyone for that matter) was researching them.
The appeared to be the least-bad option at the time, and in hindsight, Truman was probably right. Of course, one can never be sure concerning counter-factuals. I live in Japan and have talked about this topic with plenty of Japanese. They have gotten over this. Perhaps you should, too?
Please consider yourself advised.
"Things like this in history are probably why it was unanimous to decide to do something about Iraq when they thought they were building WMDs"
Where the fuck to you get your history? - directly Bush admin propaganda machine?
When Iraq was building and using WMD in the 1980's and early 1990's, countries like Russian/USSR, France and the *USA* helped them - because they were the good guys helping to suppress the Islamic nutters in Iran. So much for learning from history.
Its only well after the UN had made sure there was no WMD (but plenty of oil) that the Bush admin decided to jump into a war that has not yet ended . Just in case you are still confused - there was no WMD in Iraq when Bush Jnr decided to go to war in 2003 - and the Iraq's had nothing to do with 9/11.
And the lesson has still not been learnt - the US armed and trained Osama, and still arms and trains anybody (pakistan, ubeckistan etc) that 'supports' the US in whatever war against drugs/terror or whatever.
Looks like the US stepped in and saved your asses just in time, eh?
You're Welcome.
First of all, I think you have WMD's! Am I now suddenly justified to walk into your house and shred you into bloody little pieces? - why not? That's basically what Bush has done to hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians while claiming that he was 'liberating' them.
...
... You make it so easy for the world to stereotype american's as ignorant dumbasses.
... oops, he was supposed to use them on Iran like your government wanted, cuz that would have been perfectly ethical.
... the weapons that were completely destroyed during the first gulf war. Remember? The war where Saddam was completely contained that had left him powerless ever since? Remember? Huh?
But my main point
Unanimous?
Canada, former best friend of the USA, saw that there was no just reason to go to war, that there simply wasn't any credible evidence of any WMD's, even after US 'Intelligence' came up here and met with our leaders, showing all the 'proof'.
Canada had the guts to stand firm, even when Bush and most of the american media portrayed us as cowards.
And Canada was proven to be right.
USA 'intelligence' has since publically stated that NOT ONE SINGLE WMD HAS BEEN FOUND IN IRAQ. and that there is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL THAT WMD's WERE REMOVED TO OTHER COUNTRIES and that there is no evidence that Iraq had ANYTHING to do with 911 or Al Qaeda.
Bush didn't even have the courtesy to call Tony Blair to say that the 2000 highly trained WMD inspectors were being called off duty having found nothing. What a way to pay back blair after he stood up so strong for the unjust war.
And don't forget, it was the USA government, during the Reagan administration that GAVE Iraq the chemical weapons that Saddam used on his own people
You know
What a powerful president you have! able to conquer powerless contries while turning a blind eye to every real threat to security in the world.
Why can't you americans see the obvious truth! That Bush simply wanted to keep the world in fear, and slightly restrict world oil supplies by attacking Iraq so that he and all his oil buddies could get rich on the inflated oil prices.
Eliminating a supposed terrorist with WMD's was just the lie he got you to believe while he murdered thousands for his own profit.
George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
What's that old expression?
"Close" only counts in horseshoes, and hydrogen bombs...
Canada did no such thing. Jean Chretien dithered until the last moment. It wasn't a "stand." It was a horrible (but popular) PM playing to the polls, as he always did.
"A proof is a proof"
More ACCURATE.
Actually, millions is less precise than thousands.
Accuracy is a measure of how close to the real value the stated value is.
Precision is a measure of the range the stated value covers and has nothing to do with how close it is to the actual, real value.
Well, looks like the Germans were closer to a Nuke than the web is to a decent English-German translation solution ;)
Ist hier einer, der Karlsch heißt?
the desperation of the British people in justifying their participation in a war for which there was no just cause
I think this comment says it all. Goodbye.
Here's another technological front that the Nazis helped to pioneer: The streamlined ability to choose/select/filter people in society who are "undesirable" and eliminate ("cleanse") them from planet Earth by tatooing serial numbers on their arms, corresponding them to IBM data punch cards, and sending them off on synchronized trains to the preselected prison, work, or death camps. This cleansing process is much more quick and efficient than current methods such as imposing fines, or denying people benefits in society in order to force them to die off slowly and painfully. Finding newer and better ways to punish people for things that aren't all that bad, just against a money and power holder's agenda. It all builds on the past, or sometimes, concurrently with other paths of the past like this alleged nazi nuke.
i suggest that you read a bit more about the axis powers and the manhattan project. there was no threat (actual, implied, intended, or possible) with the use of the use of fatman and littleboy in the context of world destruction.
The axis had no notion or intention of ever applying anything that could ever be mistaken for 'freedom' by anyone's definition. I really don't mean to be dismissive, but it's a pretty important chapter in world history. It's worth cracking a book and learning a bit about it.
And to my brothers in Europe, don't forget to thank the US and GB every once in a while - maybe every June 6th...
They were using heavy water. They took over a plant in Norway that was producing heavy water, and the entire shipment was sunk in a lake they had to cross to get it to Germany. More info here. There was even a movie made
Bullshit.
... Canada's ignorant, intolerant dumbass version of Bush, but thankfully not our PM.
No one but Steven Harper wanted to send troops to Iraq. Harper
George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
Mods on crack again: that which has not been rated is neither overrated nor underrated.
I didn't say to invade. People get so eager to flame that they make assumptions just to be able to do it. I was referring to exactly what I said. They unanimously agreed and a "bill" was passed from the U.N. that nobody was basically a bluff from almost all of the nations involved except those who went in. Going in was not unanimous by any means and you'd have to live in a hole to think that so I'm not sure where you came up with the assumption.
Here. President Bush has welcomed the unanimous vote by the United Nations Security Council November 8 to force the disarmament of Iraq.
"The world has now come together to say that the outlaw regime in Iraq will not be permitted to build or possess chemical, biological or nuclear weapons," Bush, flanked by Secretary of State Colin Powell and National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, said in a statement at the White House shortly after the vote took place.
"Iraq must now, without delay or negotiation, fully disarm," Bush said, promising that Iraq will face "the severest consequences" if the Saddam Hussein regime does not comply with the latest Security Council demands.
"The resolution approved today presents the Iraqi regime with a test -- a final test," Bush said. "Iraq must now, without delay or negotiations, fully disarm, welcome full inspections, and fundamentally change the approach it has taken for more than a decade.
FYI he didn't comply.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one the bus load of girls just went down.
Iraq built and used WMDs with American support during Reagan's 1980s term. They were done after 1991, part of their surrender to America's first (counter)invasion. What was nearly unanimous in Bush's 2000s term was the opinion that Iraq did not have WMD. With the exception of Bush and his neocon advisors, who were determined to invade Iraq regardless of reasons. Who were lying for a pretext to invade Iraq, instead of stopping the Qaeda in Afghanistan an Pakistan.
--
make install -not war