Thanks. Makes me even more excited. PPU, 2-7 GB SD cards instead of slow HD, amateur dev kit, hotspotting: this sounds all very good. Since we have to scratch something from the list (rumours and all), "and a development interface that centers on a AI-controlled command-line interface" sounds like made-up.
Re "Project Reality": I thought that was what ended as the N64. Was there more/revolutionary stuff that only comes to frutition now? (Couldn't find unfulfilled stuff when googling)
had he put point number 5 as point number 1, I would have stopped reading. Its like 2001 all over again
Yeah, I was tired and didn't really get it:) I mean, everyone knows that the Xbox and the GC have better graphics than PS2, and blockiness is PS2's specialty. And that PS2 was optimized for high fill rates, IIRC.
And thanks for the insight. I'm sure Wii will be able to do pretty stuff. People thought GC specs were low too, but they were the only specs of that generation that were reached in practice, and the GC could do beautiful stuff.
Now people run around adding up the GHz of the 360 and PS3 cores against the Wii, but are forgetting that developers curse the complexity already.
You misunderstood. Although I am 36 (the horror!), I know perfectly well what those shortcuts do by themselves. My question was what the operation accomplishes. I mean, (1) cut, (2) undo. Now we are back where we started.
Aaah, interesting. so it is exactly the opposite of "PS2 models are substantially higher in polygon count"? Seems to fit better with what I seem to remember to have read: PS2 is optmized for high fill rates.
As I remember, nVidia claims they designed their chip to have no performance hit in HD, and I presume, no performance gain in SD.
Does it matter? I dunno - if you design the console and the game for a lower definition, you can simply leave many things out. I'm sure the 360 could still calculate some more than the Wii if both targeted the same 480i/p - it would just not be extremely visible.
I don't want to look like I'm arguing that good-looking graphics are totally irrelevant, and what moving images I've seen of 360 and PS3 does look awesome. However the Wii definitely will be able to do a lot more than the GC, and on a low-def TV, I don't think the difference to 360 will be all that great - Resident Evil 4 + is not bad.
Re:more proof the RIAA/MPAA are insane
on
Death By DMCA
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· Score: 1
And of course TV and pre-movie ads. Thanks, you made me laugh.
Without good shaders and the like, your comment is pretty much false. A good deal of the power of the 360 is used to push... effects, which would be missing from the Wii version.
Right, I was too short in my GP. But: on 480i many of these effects are not that visible anyway.
Take Call Of Duty for example. They use one of the cores for particles. Without all the smoke and debris, CoD becomes DOOM
This ("without particles CoD is Doom") is either also false, or a very good reason not to play CoD or buy a 360. I have played enough Doom, thank you very much, I don't need to replay it with particles enabled. To have me as a customer, the makers of CoD would have to make new and interesting games.
When ATI speaks about hardware performance, they're talking about actual performance, not perceived visual quality. So that 2-2.5x number likely means a few more pixel pipelines, a 50% higher clockspeed, and that's it
Only, ATi to my knowledge never talked about 2-2.5. If we stick the direct ATi quotes in TFA together , we end up with this:
"I think what you saw [on Wii] was just the tip of the iceberg of what the Hollywood chip can bring to the Nintendo Wii. (...) I'm really not here to talk about the design specs... other than the fact that ATI worked closely with Nintendo. The team that worked on this chip also worked on the Flipper chip that was in GameCube, and they've been working with Nintendo for a very long time so there's a great chemistry with the two teams working together. (...) I really don't think that it's about the [specs]; I think it's about the innovation that it brings to the table--the motion-sensing, the always-on capability, which is really cool too--the fact that the chip is powerful enough and responsive enough to be there at a moment's notice, and I think that's pretty cool for the average gamer. (...) [about comparing the 360 and the Wii chip] They're different chips for different platforms and different uses. I don't think it's a fair comparison to put them on a chart [to analyze]. That's not what it's all about... I think if you focus on the capabilities that the chip will have for the average consumer, with the amazement and wow factor, I think that's the value that we bring."
For the Nintendo fanboy there is a lot there to look forward to I think.
I don't think TFA is a basis for your conclusion, "and that's it." The 2-2.5 number has been mentioned for months, means nothing at all, and in TFA only appears as a comment by the article writer,
Industry sources have said that the Wii GPU would be moderately more powerful than the GameCube's GPU, but how much more we don't know. Conservative estimates from developers have placed the Wii console as a whole at 2 - 2.5 times more powerful than the GameCube.
Otherwise, yours was IMHO a very interesting post. One more thing though (and I admit I own a GC and have very limited PS2 experience). You said, "If you look carefully at PS2 games versus Gamecube games, you'll notice that PS2 models are substantially higher in polygon count, while Gamecube models tend to mask lower-polygon counts with rich textures and special effects." I don't really see that - the main thing I notice on PS2 is that everything is so darn blocky. Case in point: GTA: SA.
No, but most of the graphics power (and price) of a 360 and a PS3 are needed to push the high resolutions. If you're only doing 480i, the Wii can do roughly the same as the 360.
The hardware will be a lot faster (don't be mistaken there), it will have a motion-sensing controller, it has built-in wireless, it will be way smaller, it will have an online service with old games, it will play GC games anyway. Sounds good to me.
The real problem for Nintendo is people really love the controller for a brief time and then seem to get bored with it quickly and go back to playing 'normal games' with a normal controller
Dunno, maybe because 360 outputs games at HD resolution, so to make it worth it you need a HDTV, but the 360 doesn't let you play HD movies on it? While the Wii does not output HD, so the point is moot there, plus for the price difference between a Wii and a 360+HD I can buy a standalone HD player when the market has shaken out.
The real news here seems to be some kind of quickstart capability. Yes, that you would get software pushes if you kept the Wii powered on around the clock was revealed a few days ago, but it seems to be niftier than that. The ATi guy says
"I think it's about the innovation that it brings to the table--the motion-sensing, the always-on capability, which is really cool too--the fact that the chip is powerful enough and responsive enough to be there at a moment's notice, and I think that's pretty cool for the average gamer."
Re:more proof the RIAA/MPAA are insane
on
Death By DMCA
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· Score: 1
So, for those not using some sort of tivo-like device, if they should step out to relieve themselves, is THAT theft?
Sorry, but this is old news. Jamie Kellner has said previously, that there is only "a certain amount of tolerance" for peeing.
When asked if he considers people who go to the bathroom during a commercial to be thieves, he responded: "I guess there's a certain amount of tolerance for going to the bathroom. But if you formalize it and you create a device that skips certain second increments, you've got that only for one reason, unless you go to the bathroom for 30 seconds. They've done that just to make it easy for someone to skip a commercial."
Re:Where are the bunkers to protect Citizens ?
on
Back to the Bunker
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· Score: 0, Troll
But what about hordes of people who constitute 'the people' in the declaration of independence ?
This is America - every man for himself, I guess. At least this is what I hear when it's about taxes and health care.
I know, but they were pretty crappy, not very successful, and in any case they were just one of a million sellers of branded generic i386 PCs. Pretty insignificant as a whole.
Insightful, my ass. Look, the GP had said "there weren't plenty of typing machine manifacturers". Is IBM plenty? Olivetti, Smith-Corona et al. don't seem to be the hottest stocks.
Slashdot Mirror
Ah, ok, thanks. found more about this part of Project Reality in the link you gave.
Thanks. Makes me even more excited. PPU, 2-7 GB SD cards instead of slow HD, amateur dev kit, hotspotting: this sounds all very good. Since we have to scratch something from the list (rumours and all), "and a development interface that centers on a AI-controlled command-line interface" sounds like made-up.
Re "Project Reality": I thought that was what ended as the N64. Was there more/revolutionary stuff that only comes to frutition now? (Couldn't find unfulfilled stuff when googling)
had he put point number 5 as point number 1, I would have stopped reading. Its like 2001 all over again
:) I mean, everyone knows that the Xbox and the GC have better graphics than PS2, and blockiness is PS2's specialty. And that PS2 was optimized for high fill rates, IIRC.
Yeah, I was tired and didn't really get it
And thanks for the insight. I'm sure Wii will be able to do pretty stuff. People thought GC specs were low too, but they were the only specs of that generation that were reached in practice, and the GC could do beautiful stuff.
Now people run around adding up the GHz of the 360 and PS3 cores against the Wii, but are forgetting that developers curse the complexity already.
You misunderstood. Although I am 36 (the horror!), I know perfectly well what those shortcuts do by themselves. My question was what the operation accomplishes. I mean, (1) cut, (2) undo. Now we are back where we started.
Aaah, interesting. so it is exactly the opposite of "PS2 models are substantially higher in polygon count"? Seems to fit better with what I seem to remember to have read: PS2 is optmized for high fill rates.
As I remember, nVidia claims they designed their chip to have no performance hit in HD, and I presume, no performance gain in SD.
Does it matter? I dunno - if you design the console and the game for a lower definition, you can simply leave many things out. I'm sure the 360 could still calculate some more than the Wii if both targeted the same 480i/p - it would just not be extremely visible.
I don't want to look like I'm arguing that good-looking graphics are totally irrelevant, and what moving images I've seen of 360 and PS3 does look awesome. However the Wii definitely will be able to do a lot more than the GC, and on a low-def TV, I don't think the difference to 360 will be all that great - Resident Evil 4 + is not bad.
And of course TV and pre-movie ads. Thanks, you made me laugh.
Without good shaders and the like, your comment is pretty much false. A good deal of the power of the 360 is used to push... effects, which would be missing from the Wii version.
Right, I was too short in my GP. But: on 480i many of these effects are not that visible anyway.
Take Call Of Duty for example. They use one of the cores for particles. Without all the smoke and debris, CoD becomes DOOM
This ("without particles CoD is Doom") is either also false, or a very good reason not to play CoD or buy a 360. I have played enough Doom, thank you very much, I don't need to replay it with particles enabled. To have me as a customer, the makers of CoD would have to make new and interesting games.
Only, ATi to my knowledge never talked about 2-2.5. If we stick the direct ATi quotes in TFA together , we end up with this: For the Nintendo fanboy there is a lot there to look forward to I think.
I don't think TFA is a basis for your conclusion, "and that's it." The 2-2.5 number has been mentioned for months, means nothing at all, and in TFA only appears as a comment by the article writer,
Otherwise, yours was IMHO a very interesting post. One more thing though (and I admit I own a GC and have very limited PS2 experience). You said, "If you look carefully at PS2 games versus Gamecube games, you'll notice that PS2 models are substantially higher in polygon count, while Gamecube models tend to mask lower-polygon counts with rich textures and special effects." I don't really see that - the main thing I notice on PS2 is that everything is so darn blocky. Case in point: GTA: SA.
The rumored on-board physics co-processor on the Wii (said to have 32MB of RAM) would help with this
Sounds interesting, got any more on that? Thanks.
No, but most of the graphics power (and price) of a 360 and a PS3 are needed to push the high resolutions. If you're only doing 480i, the Wii can do roughly the same as the 360.
The hardware will be a lot faster (don't be mistaken there), it will have a motion-sensing controller, it has built-in wireless, it will be way smaller, it will have an online service with old games, it will play GC games anyway. Sounds good to me.
The real problem for Nintendo is people really love the controller for a brief time and then seem to get bored with it quickly and go back to playing 'normal games' with a normal controller
I'm curious. This is evidenced by what?
Dunno, maybe because 360 outputs games at HD resolution, so to make it worth it you need a HDTV, but the 360 doesn't let you play HD movies on it? While the Wii does not output HD, so the point is moot there, plus for the price difference between a Wii and a 360+HD I can buy a standalone HD player when the market has shaken out.
The worst case scenario is that the controller will be used for only for titles like "Virtual Wok"
Whose, Nintendo's? If Virtual Wok excites the casual gaming market like Brain Age did, I don't think Nintendo will see it as worst case.
Thanks to the AC, I understand you now. Still wrong :)
No Wireless.
What are you talking about?
The 2-2.5 number has been around for months.
Sorry, but this is old news. Jamie Kellner has said previously, that there is only "a certain amount of tolerance" for peeing.
But what about hordes of people who constitute 'the people' in the declaration of independence ?
This is America - every man for himself, I guess. At least this is what I hear when it's about taxes and health care.
I know, but they were pretty crappy, not very successful, and in any case they were just one of a million sellers of branded generic i386 PCs. Pretty insignificant as a whole.
Insightful, my ass. Look, the GP had said "there weren't plenty of typing machine manifacturers". Is IBM plenty? Olivetti, Smith-Corona et al. don't seem to be the hottest stocks.
+1 Finally
You snuck one rather BAD thing in your list of things that are good about Cuba - Infant mortality is a Bad Thing.
h tml?ex=1263272400&en=c7ea472ff9651976&ei=5090
GP meant it the other way round.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/12/opinion/12kris.