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Back to the Bunker
Oldsmobile writes "On Monday, June 19, about 4,000 government workers representing more than 50 federal agencies will say goodbye to their families and set off for dozens of classified emergency facilities stretching from the Maryland and Virginia suburbs to the foothills of the Alleghenies. They will take to the bunkers in an "evacuation" that sources describe as the largest "continuity of government" exercise ever conducted, a drill intended to prepare the U.S. government for an event even more catastrophic than the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The vast secret operation has updated the duck-and-cover scenarios of the 1950s with state-of-the-art technology -- alerts and updates delivered by pager and PDA, wireless priority service, video teleconferencing, remote backups -- to ensure that "essential" government functions continue undisrupted in an emergency."
Farewell!
Huh ?
It seems evertyhing is provided for survival of "government" elite - who have the wealth and/or connections to get elected and appointed.
But what about hordes of people who constitute 'the people' in the declaration of independence ?
Read radical news here
"an event even more catastrophic than the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks"
Would that be the November 7, 2006 Congressional elections? Or the November 4, 2008 elections, showing exceptionally long-range planning?
--
make install -not war
When the emergency preparedness procedures are woefully inadequate in cases where the responsible agencies are operating from their regular offices, why should I believe they would be effective when staff are trying to react in a situation of real chaos.
...bring you this Wireless Priority Service message.
The showgirls will arrive on 06/18/2006 at 16:30 hours and they'll be sooo lonely....
With a male:female ratio of 1:10 of course!
What happened last time everyone went for training exercises? If you've watched loose change, you know. And since bush's ratings are in the toilet I suspect it'll happen again.
Bring along a few spare water chips, okay?
Is the men to women ratio favourable in Dr Strangelove's eyes? I mean, of course every many would have to perform his 'duty to his country' often with many women to repopulate the earth, but I think they can all suck it up and deal with it.
Tibbon
tibbon.com
for the mess to begin with.
Mmmmm... maybe be sure to save the Telephone Sanitizers this time around.
Ok, conspiracy theory over!
today is spelling optional day.
"...to ensure that 'essential' government functions continue undisrupted in an emergency."
So now they're going to practice their coffee breaks, giving rude service to the public and wasting our tax dollars on dubious projects... all from underneath a fortified bunker, to ensure this very fine tradition is not lost in the event of a nuclear attack?
The leadership of this country has a wildly overblown sense of self-importance. Even if we were to lose every politician in Washington, we have the largest prison population in the world, a vast pool from which to build a new government.
The vast secret operation has updated the duck-and-cover scenarios of the 1950s with state-of-the-art technology
So, posting it on slashdot counts as secrecy nowadays.
liqbase
RICE_BABY: "LOLZ IN DA BUNKA WHERE U @?"
CHAIN_MAN: "AT DA DOOR OPEN UP LOL"
SHRUB: "B SERIYUS U 2"
BROWNIE: "YEAH U NEVER KNOW WHOS GONNA SEE YER MESSAGES"
WASH_POST: "YEAH LOL IN UR NETWORK READIN YER MESSAGES SEE YOU IN THE PAPERS"
RUMMY: "LOL SEE YOU IN GITMO ALL YOUR RIGHTS ARE BELONG TO ME"
WASH_POST: "OH SHI..."
Please help metamoderate.
"a drill intended to prepare the U.S. government for an event even more catastrophic than the Sept. 11, 2001,"
a drill my ass! They go off in their little holes and the next thing we know we have Goa'uld mother ships over new your or something....
Complete with lemonade and a 1/2 gallon of Jose Tequila in the "basement bunker" via webcam1 ;)
Why do they think we would want the government to "continue" and/or "to be safe"? When an entity develops a survival instinct, that is the true test as to whether or not it has evolved artificial intelligence. (cf. Hal in 2001)
While the Wa Post columnist - it should be noted that this is an opinion piece, not an article - is obviously not too fond of the idea, I'd say it still has at least some merit.
With increased WMD proliferation - from big budget nukes to dirt cheap chemical weapons - that can be used to attack the U.S. capital and government installations, I'd say that such a plan is smart to have as a backup. Should Iran wake up one day and decide to nuke Washington (a possibility in the future), we would certainly be able to retaliate and turn it into the Islamic Republic of Glass Bowl or Parking Lot (pick your favorite), but what would happen to all of the government infrastructure there? We're not just talking about continuity of elected leaders, but about the civilian side of the government as well, which this plan seems to focus on, too.
While nuclear war with Russia or another fairly heavily armed power (i.e. China) remains an enormously remote possibility, exchanges with countries that possess only a handful of nukes (Iran, North Korea, etc.) are much more likely. In such an event, the U.S. would not need to focus simply on making sure the attacker is completely wiped out - this is a given - but that it can survive a relatively small attack affecting only a handful of cities such as Washington and New York rather than a widespread nuclear holocaust in which all of this would simply be moot anyways.
The author is obviously unhappy with the inefficiency of this program, but I'm not entirely convinced by his arguments. Security, backups, etc. are always inefficient. Security and efficiency are always at odds with each other. Spending hundreds of millions on a backup that MIGHT be used is entirely inefficient EXCEPT when you need it, in which case it becomes a necessity. Combine this with the fact that the government is also not known for its efficiency and you've got a problem.
The U.S. isn't getting ready for nuclear holocaust any more, as many slashdotters have claimed and the author seems to hint at. It's getting ready for a limited nuclear exchange in which, yes, things like the patent office and budget offices must continue operating in the months and years to come when their main offices have been wiped out but a vast majority of the U.S. has been left unscathed.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not defending every action of this program. I would encourage others, however, to take a more nuanced look at it. And nuance is something slashdot appears to be lacking these days. It's likely my karma will pay for it, but so be it.
(As a side note, my "confirm I'm not a script" word was "senate"... coincidence?)
... for an event even more catastrophic than the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
The 2006 mid-term elections?
As Leslie Fish points out in The Digwell Carol if we take the chance to bury them now, maybe we can get on with our lives. Anyone else feel like chipping in for a concrete pour to be arranged at the mouth of bunker this week?
Where are their priorities?!?!?!
but the USA PATRIOT Act forbids discussing this in any form.
I am at risk myself because I told you this as discussing what the USA PATRIOT Act forbids is also forbidden.
"Moreover, since 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina, the definition of what constitutes an "essential" government function has been expanded so ridiculously beyond core national security functions -- do we really need patent and trademark processing in the middle of a nuclear holocaust? -- that the term has become meaningless."
Just before the blastwave hits, as I put my head between my legs and kiss my ass goodbye, my final thought can be "maybe I'll be dead but at least the patent system will live on..."
It's good to know we will be able to handle an occurrence that has killed less than 1000 people each year. I wonder if we'll be prepared for another realistic disaster like Katrina or Rita, or if we'll be prepared for the millions who die of heart disease. Hurry to the bunkers!
Has it really come to this? Paranoid conspiracy theory mewlings without a shred of evidence is considered "insightful" here?
It's really sad that the black-helicopter crowd has so infiltrated slashdot and its moderators. It used to be a decent place to get some real insightful comments once in a while. Now garbage like this is the cream of the crop. Really sad.
First, my personal observation is that about 98% of Federal employees are dedicated and hardworking. Unfortunately the 2% that are not tend to be a) executives or b) customer-facing. Second, if we can provide essential services with 4,000 people - why are we paying for millions?
NORAD was running several drills on the morning of 9/11, amazingly, to simulate almost the exact 9/11 events. This is why so many air traffic controllers and military personnel in various tape recordings seem confused and ask for numerous confirmations that what actually happened was not an exercise.
[/tinfoil-hat]
I still have my stash I prepared for the Y2K crises.
Mmmm. I think some of this stuff needs to be updated. And all the beer I stashed is long gone.
I for one welcome my unelected shadow government over lords. Permanent marshal law? Mmmmmm donuts. I mean why hold elections for a new government or any of that silly outdated inefficient 18th century human rights crap?
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
"government survival"? If something bad enough happens that they need to run to their bunkers, they deserve to be shot when they come back out.
The RIAA must be able to continue to prosecute US citizens even after the dazed survivors of a cataclysmic attack emerge from the smoking ruins!
I'm sorry, 9/11 wasn't a catastrophe of national or even regional concern. It was an isolated, one-off local emergency. It didn't threaten the average american, it didn't interrupt or negate the federal and regional bureaucracy's ability to operate, and it certainly wasn't a national crisis. To this day its greatest long-term effect has been the destruction of an entire country as simple retaliation
9/11 was a local disaster affecting one municipality.
Hurricane Katrina was a regional disaster affecting a couple states.
The race riots in France were a regional crisis
The student riots in France were a localized crisis
If bird flu suddenly spread like wildfire killing hundreds of thousands to millions in multiple states, THAT would be a national-level crisis.
------- "From bored to fanboy in 3.8 asian girls" ----------
And nuance is something slashdot appears to be lacking these days.
Nuance is for people who aren't already absolutely, positively certain that they are 100% correct and anyone who disagrees in the slightest way is stupid. Also evil. Possibly eats babies.
>- to ensure that "essential" government functions continue undisrupted in an emergency."
yea, like DRM and IP. I wonder if the drill is sponsered by anyone...
Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
Looking back at the Cold War-era bunkers, several (civillian) VIP's noted that, although they had been informed of the facilities and the contingencies for their use, they never would have actually gone into them.
Because, as this article hints, they would have had to leave their families to do so.
Thinking about the "human factors" involved...would their be enough warning for anyone to be able to make it to the bunker in time? Would the roads/airspace/transit function well enough to get them to the bunkers? Would they leave their families to do so?
The US free market: two halves of a government-granted duopoly are free to set the market price.
... seriously, at least we will be safe in the knowledge that government WILL go on when disaster strikes. Go on being a complete and utter failure that is. And for the cost of only a few trillions. Bargain I say!
On a related note, picturing a civilization descentant completely from government workers is quite amusing. What will leeches do without hosts? Man-on-Man cani-action, thats what! At least the TV programming will be entertaining, as long as it lasts.
___
No power in the 'verse can stop me
a bunker to to protect a government which will spy on its own people. yea!
All you'd need to happen with the execs were safely away is some cooked up "terrorist" attack, maybe a series of dirty bombs going off coupled with a financial crisis. Good excuse to roll the military out into the streets.
Nah, couldn't happen here, right? Just because something similar happened...well, several times in the past is no reason to think it could ever happen here.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
"Agency planned exercise on Sept. 11 built around a plane crashing into a building
... were running a pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building. Little did they know that the scenario would come true in a dramatic way that day."
Wed Aug 21, 7:45 PM ET
By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft would crash into one of its buildings. But the cause wasn't terrorism -- it was to be a simulated accident.
Officials at the Chantilly, Virginia-based National Reconnaissance Office had scheduled an exercise that morning in which a small corporate jet would crash into one of the four towers at the agency's headquarters building after experiencing a mechanical failure.
The agency is about 4 miles (6 kilometers) from the runways of Washington Dulles International Airport.
Agency chiefs came up with the scenario to test employees' ability to respond to a disaster, said spokesman Art Haubold. No actual plane was to be involved -- to simulate the damage from the crash, some stairwells and exits were to be closed off, forcing employees to find other ways to evacuate the building.
"It was just an incredible coincidence that this happened to involve an aircraft crashing into our facility," Haubold said. "As soon as the real world ( news - Y! TV) events began, we canceled the exercise."
Terrorism was to play no role in the exercise, which had been planned for several months, he said.
Adding to the coincidence, American Airlines Flight 77 -- the Boeing 767 that was hijacked and crashed into the Pentagon ( news - web sites) -- took off from Dulles at 8:10 a.m. on Sept. 11, 50 minutes before the exercise was to begin. It struck the Pentagon around 9:40 a.m., killing 64 aboard the plane and 125 on the ground.
The National Reconnaissance Office operates many of the nation's spy satellites. It draws its personnel from the military and the CIA ( news - web sites).
After the Sept. 11 attacks, most of the 3,000 people who work at agency headquarters were sent home, save for some essential personnel, Haubold said.
An announcement for an upcoming homeland security conference in Chicago first noted the exercise.
In a promotion for speaker John Fulton, a CIA officer assigned as chief of NRO's strategic gaming division, the announcement says, "On the morning of September 11th 2001, Mr. Fulton and his team
The conference is being run by the National Law Enforcement and Security Institute.
___
On the Net:
National Reconnaissance Office: http://www.nro.gov/
Central Intelligence Agency ( news - web sites): http://www.cia.gov/
National Law Enforcement and Security Institute: http://www.nlsi.net/ "
Although his link is from "prison planet" the original article is from AP.
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
If there is a massive terrorist attack and many innocent people are killed these are the last people that should be protected in some uber-bunker. Why? because these are some of the few people in this country who are not innocent and could have stopped an attack. Shouldnt we be putting our best and brightest (pretty much all the /.ers) in something like this? Last time i checked the politicians are at the bottom of that list.
Weren't government agencies practicing for the exact same situation as 9/11 just prior to it happening?
I might need a tin-foil hat here, but it just seems to convenient that they are having a 'practice run' like they were practicing before 9/11.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
...the US government. It's nice to see that the US government is making sure that it can survive itself. Nothing else seems to have a chance against them. I don't know what they'll have to destroy if they ever have to put this plan into effect.
Maybe they should just put nuclear bombs in every major city and configure them to go off if the government hasn't been around for a while. Doing so would be functionally equivelant to "Back to the Bunker." It's really just a question of what costs less. Oh wait, this is the US government, whatever costs more.
What a bunch of fucking cunts.
The only conspiracy here is insiders in government hijacking the elections with their pals in the blackbox voting businesses. This (or similar moves) is called a coup d'etat when it happens in other nations. Here, the order followers just keep following orders, despite the fact of numerous lies being exposed, such as the actual stated reason to go to a semi major war over. They obviously don't care enough to consider what the heck they are doing, or want to go along with the coup. If you can't see these events have happened, oh well, consider some google searches and educate thyself. If you think it doesn't effect you, oh well again, too bad you got the ostrich with it's head in the sand syndrome. It effects everyone on the planet what the fatcat government goons do here, you don't even have to be a subject for their rules.
The only black helicopters are the ones the government owns, in fact, one of them crashed the other day carrying the "nightstalkers" and some spec ops guys. Most didn't make it, one guy lived throgh it. They apparently hit a TV tower guide wire.
Oh, BTW, we are all informed now that the government itself employs thousands of "cyber warrior" coup supporters to manufacture fake news-a-ganda, and to post on forums and blogs, among other things, it is no longer a "secret". If you are one of them, or some civvie coup supporter, you know what? Eat shit you sniveling fascist bastard.
gotta make sure the status quo is maintained, god forbid we ever get a clean start again and try to make a government this time for the PEOPLE...
sigs suck
...an actual credible bona fide anti missile defense that really worked, the other major nuclear powers (china and russia) would be sorely tempted to launch a first strike before the new system was widely deployed. If they waited, it would place them in a position of being defenseless against an attack, without even a good chance of a good sized retaliatory stike. MAD only works when all the sides are at rough parity in other words.
I doubt that 99% of the current government's 'essential functions' will be taken down into the holes. Let's see what might get left behind:
1) RIAA/MPAA lawsuits
2) USPTO
3) Speed limits
4) Taxes
5) Regulation of the economy
6) The Department of Homeland Security
7) The NSA's collection of everyone's phone and data transmissions
8) etc.
Lately it seems that 99% of the government bloat and "protection" would get left behind and it would be reduced to what the Constitution orgininally intended. Have a nice day.
its benn said that this is not an excercise, that its a cover for a goverment take over concisting of....... ..............THIS POSTING DELETED BE YOUR FREINDLY NSA OVERSEER
Note to those who currently think they are in "power": WE the people, give you your rights and power, you do not give them to us. ...you might want to consider re-reading your Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence.
While the rest of the post may've been a bit tinfoil-hat-ish, parent is right. Offtopic? Sure, a little. Troll? No way in hell. Bad mod.
I'd be watching the mock evacuation to see where each group goes and then add the locations to "Nuke the hell out of" list. although its possible the places has been publically known for ages.
So they started planning this a few months before 9/11? Conspiracy!
I believe the biggest real threat from either the 9/11 attacks or the French riots is the ability of these actions to unsermine the confidence of people on their government and the encouragement of folks to commit crimes. Like it or not, civility is not the natural state of man. A goodly chunk of the population would surely steal to their heart's content if they knew they would never be caught and punished.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
'the people' in the Declaration of Independence originally meant white male land owners. The morality of the 1770's wasn't so great either. The people who wrote the Declaration were part of that elite - and they were mostly interested in protecting their buisnesses from taxes.
Simon's Rock College
... they're leaving the important people that actually keep the country running OUT of the bunker?
What will they do if they come back out of the bunker after a nuclear strike? There'd be no industry, and a complete break down of civilisation. Katrina springs to mind. Maybe with all those government-funded lawyers they could sue some filesharers and live off that.
We can do without politicians and bureaucrats (there's plenty more where they came from), but entrepreneurs and businesses are vital to keeping every day life sane.
Just coincidence they're such a strong US supporter?
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
What I see from these types of plans is not hope that our government will survive a disaster but rather dread that our government will survive any attempt by the people to stop it. When the government becomes so corrupt it turns on its people the people have no choice and a duty to turn on its government. When that government goes into hiding and strikes at its own people from afar (as it does now to other countries) the people will be helpless to stop it.
This shadow government is supposed to keep the machine rolling when a major catastrophe strikes--how do you kill a beast that has already been decapitated?
This sort of contingency planning might be effective for these sorts of disasters. No plan is going to work for every kind of disturbance and no plan is likely to work very well for any kind of major disturbance (think Katrina).
You gotta start somewhere. Where's my box of plutonium pellets?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
So people don't find out where those bunkers are and weld them shut for good!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"drill my ass!"
Uh, sure?
"oh come on..."
"They go off in their little holes..."
that have occured since & including 911, have also coinsided with a massive government/military training drills (911 and london)... and the since the U.S. is building up a strike force for what appears to be a July attack on Iran... the conspiracy side of me is going "Hmmm...." in an ominous tone. ...do we need to be digging out our grand fathers bomb shelters for a "camping trip" with the family? Sigh...
for those with an interest/awareness .. of the NWO/iluminati's/zionists .. interest/emphasis of the numerology of dates ..
.. after 06/06/06
.. and most of them will thinks it's for the best anyway .. to keep their worthless asses safe from the terrorists ..
..
.. ah too brutus ..
13 days
very interesting given the recent terrorist scar in canada under stephen harper's watch (bush's zionist canadian rightwing buddy)
thanks to modern education(mass brain washing) and the mass media the sheeple never saw it coming
just one of the more interesting possibilities
http://www.joevialls.co.uk/myahudi/fortress1.html
senate
I for one welcome our new Enclave overlords! May they terrorize the country from their oil rig until such time that all mutants are wiped out - or alternatively, until the descendend of the vault dweller arrives! Whatever happens first!
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
#1278: Is that who I think it is?
#1278 begins to peer down the corridor as a human like shape walks towards him.
#1278 turns and begins to run in horror.
Figure begins to laugh loudly.
A door slams in front of #1278, sealing his fate.
The figure approaches swiftly.
Dick Chenney: You fool. It would break all our top National Security to let you leave now! Once you find the Dick, you can never leave!
The lack of nuance on Slashdot once again.
Not to mention a complete lack of knowledge about the world around them.
The sad part is that the parent will probably be modded insightful. Oh well. So continues the slide to "SlashKos".
Suggestions to people to view it and make their own decisions should not me moderated as trolls.
You back up the files you’d least like to do without after the event. Not your spyware.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Oh don't worry, I'm sure the libertaria-nuts all have their own bunkers, but let's hope they don't forget the inexhaustible labour force of robots.
Looks like somebody played Fallout (or Fallout 2) too much.
Whether it was meant for the Capitol or for the White House, it almost succeeded. If the terrorists had kept the passengers away from the AirFones, it would have succeeded.
That trick, I hope, can't work again. But if a clever enemy thinks up an equallly damaging attack, then it does make sense to plan for keeping our command and control intact.
will be the most catestrophic event the US has ever encountered. Try and hide in a bunker after that!
"The plans even spell out what evacuees should take with them (recommended items: a combination lock, a flashlight, two towels and a small box of washing powder)."
All that?
How about 1 towel and a book with "Don't Panic!" on the cover?
At least they're right about the importance of a towel, but I can't figure out what the combination lock is for.
that during a disaster a large proportion of the individuals that had great part in the mess that requires them to go into a bunker are going to be nice and safe, thus allowing the mere remains of society to get on with the remainder of their lives (as long as that may be).
I wonder how many folks in a real nightmare scenario would say "screw it" and stay with their families, what's the contingency rules? would they be "ordered" to do their job or is it assumed they will do it anyway because of summary consequences?
I'm not totally in jest.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Provide an alternative to fear.
I 100% agree, and I just ran out of modpoints yesterday...
... someone get the welding torches ready! This is our chance! :)
President: "I'd just like the nation to know that they still have two of the branches of government..."
Those poor bastards, they have us surrounded. Now we can fire at them in all directions!
the U.S. is building up a strike force for what appears to be a July attack on Iran...
:^)
Woo-hoo! Dollar-fifty-gas, here we come! Call the Dodge dealer and tell him that I want to order something with a Hemi in it!
... when a nucular (far more potent than nuclear) attack strikes the country, wiping out 90% of the population, it's mucho importante as I was saying, for the remaining 10% to be able uninterruptedly to file tax return forms, be issued ID cards, and in general carry on with the usual way of life (there has to be more reasons why goverments exist that escape me right now)...
Yam, yam, uga booga, yam, yam, yade, yade, uga booga, yam, yam, yade, yade
Exactly what is an "essential" government function?
Albuquerque PC
No where in there does it say anything about attractiveness to females! 10 women for each man and you don't even have to attractive! Where do I sign up?! Nuclear war now!
EvilCON - Made Famous by
/., and no-one comments (that I've seen) on the technology aspect? So the country has gone to hand in a heckbasket, and the government is relying on pagers and videoconferences? Anyone know anything about a secure, hardened alternate government infrastructure out there waiting for such a scenario?
(Interesting: the two capchas I've gotten so far posting to this thread have been "harbored" and "feared" - how do it know?)
I'm not afraid of a few scattered "terrorists" with box cutters and fertilizer bombs. I am afraid of my government whose commander and chief over nuclear weapons, jets, and a million man army army said the constitution is a "godamn piece of paper"
i cle_7779.shtml
"GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions of the act could further alienate conservatives still mad at the President from his botched attempt to nominate White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.
"I don't give a goddamn," Bush retorted. "I'm the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way."
"Mr. President," one aide in the meeting said. "There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution."
"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face," Bush screamed back. "It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/art
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
Civil Defense planning for large-scale nuclear war had faded out long before the Cold War ended, but it was always pretty much a joke; the dried food in the bomb shelters has mostly faded out, and in spite of Reagan-era bureaucrats saying you should dig a 3-foot hole and cover it with a door, there wasn't much that could be done. But terrorist attacks aren't likely to hit the whole country - they'd necessarily be limited in scope, and Washington and NYC are the obvious targets, which perhaps a couple of small random actions elsewhere for fun.
DC basically has government workers, Beltway Bandits, museums, and black people. So the government gets its high-level workers out of town, the Beltway Bandits can do their own planning or telecommute, museums are too heavy to move, and George Bush doesn't care about black people.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
20 milion people live in the New York metro area. Most of us know people who died. Thousands of people were stranded, across the country, when flights were grounded. Global markets teetered. NATO invoked the 5th article, for the first time in history. Armies were mobilized. Wars were begun. The fate of much of the world for the following decade hinged on that morning. Our national character has, for better or worse, changed.
9/11 was the definitive 'watershed' moment. It's rather ugly of you to downplay it.
I suggest the parent poster was not arguing the idea of planning for contingencies, but like Katrina, they did a bad/sloppy/ineffectual/poor/disasterous job while they were even in their office, a place they are comfortable with, a place where their best laid plans did not exist or were fatally broken; let alone during a real emergency, ergo, we are all screwed beforehand, so what is the point of this exercise.
Shut them down, I say!
The one bunker that needs them will have their spares shipped a few hundred miles away...
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
Heh, quite ominous just right after having watched this BBC documentary.
True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
I'll grab the power armor if you grab the plasma rifles!
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
the Bush administration is preparing another 9/11 "Perl Harbor"?
Yeah, but the terrorists aren't using Nuclear Weapons.
I thought the battle plans against non-nuclear Iraq include them, specifically inserted by terrorists like Bush and Rumsfeld over the objections of the professional military that had been trained to think of them as last-ditch defensive weapons.
Until Iran goes online, they don't have access to the materials, so they'll be using Biological and Chemical weapons.
You don't think our Pakistani "friends" have already spread them far and wide, to a much greater degree than Iran would be willing to share them with unstable elements?
Yeah - but let's see those fuckers try to get *anywhere* on 66 from DC to the Alleghenies (in VA) or up 70/68 to the mountains in MD. Good fucking luck, fellas.
So take heart that good old fashioned DC gridlock will fuck them just as much as the rest of us. By the time they get to those bunkers they'll be glowing.
Are you kidding me? European newspapers don't even try to pretend to be objective and non-partisan.
That's why I like them.
U.S. papers do just that - pretend. European papers are generally open about their bias from the start. If only American papers would shed their false cloak of objective reporting I'd put more stock in them.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
What if the drill was to put people in safe bunkers (like WTC basement?) and let them be a target for .. (do you prefer China or Iran as suspects) ?
' Seems that USA govnt is preparing for WWIII. Somethings smells rotten on planet earth.
Give me a towel, I need a Vogon spaceship...
The U.S. isn't getting ready for nuclear holocaust any more...
The US population, it seems, isn't ready for any kind of serious event. Read the rest of the posts in this topic for an example.
Rather than trying to prevent a serious event or planning to deal with the consequences, the public view seems to be one of denial, fantasy, and conspiracy theories. Nothing bad can happen (denial). Diplomancy, disarmament, and environmental awareness will keep us safe (fantasy). And it's all about Haliburton anyway (conspiracy theories).
And it's expressed and reinforced by making fun of people who are just trying to be prepared. Bravo.
It's apparently going to take a few more attacks over several years for Americans to finish the process of growing up. I'm glad I don't live near any likely targets.
How do you simulate the experience of driving through blazing, radiated, panic-stricken streets to emergency bunker sites miles away?
Try driving home at rush-hour on the night before a Summer bank holiday weekend.
Or even on the following day when everyone is in their camper vans trying to head for the trees.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Ï see the Administration has convinced you Iran is evil and possess Nuclear capabilities against Europe.
You've been duped yet again.. They did it with Iraq, and now they're doing it with Iran. Funny how you can fabricate "evidences" to support a world-view which Bush has had all along...
That is wear the real tunnels go to. They use 'secret bunkers' as a cover. Bush has spent great deals of money digging new tunnels to join his reptilian brothers in the center of Terra. He has to because the reptilians are forbidden from using the monorails running from the enterence near the pole/finland/russia.
It's called Synchronity, coined by Carl G. Jung, and describes these so-called "coincidences", that happens from time to time in our lives. One day for example, you encounter a single word 5-6 times, just by "chance". Search for Jung and Synchronity finds more information like this.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
Would you care to back that up with some quotes? Quotes from high-ranking government officials, please — displaying not just their being religious, but being fundamentalists. Put up or shut up, so to speak, please.
Thank you...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
First things first:
Sept 11 was catastrophic for the people inside the buildings..you know, the people who fell hundreds of meters to their death, the people who were crushed under the concrete, the people who were vaporized by the flames..
It was not a terrible time for the person who sat on his comfy chair in a primary school and continued to read Little Red Riding Hood after he got the news. It was more like a 'difficult time', and we all know how they handled that don't we.
Next:
Will somebody please think of the goddam children?
It's always our fault. Period. We all deserve to die because we have somehow offended group A or angered group B.
The self-hatred of the west is amazing. We excuse away everything as our fault. It's as if we were made up of a group of battered women, constantly making excuses for their husbands.
How would you propose the U.S. respond to a nuclear attack that kills tens if not hundreds of thousands of people?
Any chance all these middle managers and politicos are being loaded onto a spaceship, with a course set to crashland on another planet?
I mean, I want to keep my hairdresser and telephone sanitizer dude and all that. It's the politicos I'm sick of having around...
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
The panic that followed it was. The paranoia is. It gets used for all kinds of shit, but is still paranoia. Please adivce your fellow citizen that 9/11 (while being pretty symbolic) was not an attack on America. It was simply a terrorist attack. Those do happen quite often. Not with the same grave results, but for on a much more frequent schedule for example in Israel.
Watching what has happened to the US I think the terrorists have achieved a lot of things. And that shouldn't have happened, because terrorists shouldn't achieve anything IMHO. Best would have been if airport security would have gone up a little and the cockpits would have gotten seals that no one can a) shoot b) talk through. But a lot of stuff has happened that was explained by the attacks that actually doesn't have anything to do with them.
I have come to loathe everyting related to 9/11. Absolutely anything.
The problem the government is plannin on saving beurocrats and politicions. No one with any of the actual skills that would be required to save society. I keep thinking of the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy and the ship filled with middle management and telephone cleaners.
Kill the head, and everything dies. Or take over the head.
If our entire economy and society wasn't structured around one central all-powerful government institution... then it wouldn't be nessicary to carry out expensive, retarded exercises like this. Keep infrastructure extremly decentralized, extremly diverse and non-standardized, and the strategy of one big dramatic attack wouldn't make sense.
And as a side benifit, facism would be damn near impossible because there would be no way one small group of people could take control of all the numerous and completly diverse centers of power.
This whole pratice drill fails on key aspect of Government... Who to tax so they can continue to spend butt loads of money. Governments don't make money, by their nature. Without us working class stiffs, earning real money, the government will soon grind to a halt. How many government employees does it take to plant a "potatoe" plant? Then again if a real attack of this scale happens, it only takes a few people to push the buttons to end it all, and I will be a corpse in the street so who cares....
That quote is not of a "fundamentalist" -- a man of convictions, yes, but nothing you are trying to read into it. Sorry, try again.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
...Imageine this horrid picture:
All the politicians evacuate to their bunkers, and a nuclear holocaust actually happens. Everyone in the world dies except the politicians. Then, many years later, the entire world is populated completely with the children of the politicians.
AHHHHH!
Anything but that.
Either the entire race should be exterminated, or nobody should die at all, just don't leave THE POLITICIANS!
These people are highly fundamentalist, for example, but they are Democrats and thus very far from the current US leadership...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I see they've migrated to the new ugly-ass faggy Slashdot GUI. Anyone know how to fix?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Hang on, so you're saying you deny Bush said that God speaks through him?
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
They're also planning to port this Harbor app to Eiffel or Ocaml but it's a bit more complicated...
A: There are 4000 people running this country.
[sound of that post sailing over heads of the mods]
"Our interests are to see if we can't scale it up to something more exciting," he said.
You're talking about how they're really there to calm the passengers before catastrophe strikes?
Kinda like whatever's this week's breathless Survival Idol news. Yeah.
"Our interests are to see if we can't scale it up to something more exciting," he said.
Anyone else think the world situation is starting to sound uncannily like the Fallout games? Government builds underground bunkers (Vaults), begins drills for them. Hell, in the Fallout games, what happened before World War III and the end of the world was the annexation of Canada, US invades Mexico for oil, Europe and Middle East feud over oil, China fights USA for Alaska... It's scary that videogames made nearly 10 years ago tell a story so eerily similar to what is happening today.
We had them design and build it.
"Our interests are to see if we can't scale it up to something more exciting," he said.
They liberate Iraq?
*badum shing* Thank you thank you, I'll be here all week, try the veal!
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
... all of which will fail immediately during any actual emergency, meaning that the US government will be perfectly prepared to continue during any catastrophic event which causes absolutely nothing to go wrong.
I don't know about you all, but my cell phone service stops working when there's bad traffic because it's snowing. During the winter. When the weather forecast predicted snow.
Telephone sanitizers, indeed.
.. an event even more catastrophic than the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
The attack on the World Trading Centre was bad, no doubt, but 'catastrophic'? Hurricane Katrina was a catastrophe, the tsunami was one, global warming is becoming one, and the Bush administration is worse than one; I wouldn't, however, call the terror attacks a 'catastrophe'. I thought the Americans were supposed to be 'thick skinned' and 'resilient', but since those attacks you have panicked and run around like decapitated chickens, allowing a moron like Bush and his fascist cronies to run wild over you.
I think you guys should get rid of them - people like Bush, Ashcroft, Chenie and Rice are the main reason why America has problems in the world.
Paranoia is a disease onto itself,
and may I add,
the person standing next to you
may not be who they appear to be,
so take precautions.
If you're the product of an American university education these days, I'm scared for the future of our country.
Somehow that rings clear for a lot of our Ivory Tower administration (and those who have been given the administration's blessing), which has less than a handful of people that went to places with open admissions and more than their share of Ivy level incompetence. When you have a good deal of people from an exclusive institution or two, you're going to get a bunch of them put through. The results are what we have today in our government on both sides.
Roberts, the Yalito, "Shoe Store Assault by Proxy" Rice, Bolton(), Bush, and others(I wonder if his bunker is at Yale) all seem to not reflect the intention to have exclusion generate quality classes. The first two make Miers look clean by current decisions - she's probably one of the few non Ivies that made it as far as she did - and proved it during her nomination that if you're not from a highly exclusive university, you're not going to get SCOTUS even if you are more competent than the Ivy/Ivory Tower candidate.
If this is the beginning generation of a decline in Ivy quality, they might as well just open admissions and be on with it. It's not like they could dig themselves any deeper by doing it. Heck, the entirety of the Midwest that wanted to study law there would make it look clean at Yale, MIT (Ivory Tower but not Ivy) would actually generate high quality domestic talent, and Harvard wouldnt have as many offshorer business majors.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
I'm not sure I wouldn't describe the London bombs as one of only 2 major recent attacks. You know, there was that bombing in Bali that killed hundreds. And I'm sure some other terrible events I've forgotten (probably in Iraq)
Homme petit d'homme petit, s'attend, n'avale
So what they are saying is all that will be left after a giant "world-destroying" disaster is liars, thieves and bureaucrats?
i think i'm kind of glad i get to be vaporized...
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This is MY galaxy...go find your OWN!
I hadn't heard about this ('cause I spent yesterday building a play structure, not surfin' the 'net), so thank you for the information. However, nothing I read in 3 articles found using Google indicated anything about Internet surveillance. Could you please provide a reference?
have a cigar :)
Could be worse. FEMA could "practice" Operation SCATANA. LOL
0 ,00.html, but this article has more details http://www.mojones.com/news/feature/1994/01/fema.h tml. Here is a less biased article http://www.thebulletin.org/article.php?art_ofn=nd0 1schwartz
Well, the article got a few little facts wrong, but it was pretty good. It is just a re-write of http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,7369,66070
FEMA will also be conducting tests of GETS 710-627-4387 access codes and coordinating with ham radio shortwave volunteers. (Do not call that number or the FBI will knock on your door) I hope they test NAWAS.
Raven Rock and Mount Weather will not be the only US underground areas busy during the drill. Olney, Maryland, will be busy also.
But, I would be worried if the Russians also have a June 19 drill at Yamantau Mountain in the Urals.
The National Guards and port authorities will also be coordinating efforts.
Odd, I can't find the code name for this June 19 drill and it is not mentioned on the FEMA calendar.
By the way, Iran is not planning on performing a traditional nuking of Washington DC. Iran is planning on performing an EMP attack that will wipe out almost all electronics in the US.
Such disaster preparations are important not just for nuclear attacks, but for events such as pandemic and asteroids. Rumor says that someone at NASA has reopened Project Orion, for lifting the US equivalent to the Tsar Bomba. Bye bye asteroid.
Or so I think, and you failed to give an example, when politely requested...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
"During the September 11, 2001 attacks, the US was holding multiple annual and one-time war games with at least one resembling the actual attacks."
...
Link
"On 9/11, CIA Was Running Simulation of a Plane Crashing into a Building"
Link
For a full-on paranoid Google spree, try "9/11 + exercises"
Link
If your head hasn't already exploded or gone into hibernation, you might also inquire into the standing-down of air defense systems.
-kgj
and that's a fact. Someday it will be gone. They know that too and
:-)
after whatever catastrophe hits, rolls over the land and slaughters
most of the population, they expect to come back to the surface,
armed to the teeth to rule over the survivors.
I know where they have a special bunker here in the area and I know a
lot of chlorinated public swimming pools where they have those metal
bottles of chlorine gas
...fixed it for ya!
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
I hope they remember to bring an extra water chip.
Why put classified bunker-type facilities in suburbia? My guess is, during the Cold War, those facilities were rural and far removed from the city, and easy to keep out of the public eye. Fifty years of DC area population growth has moved the suburbs out to those facilities now.
"The plural of anecdote is not data" -- Bruce Schneier
"Put up or shut up" is a strange way of being polite.
He has also said that he is the great decider, and has hinted that he hopes to be in power when the holocaust arrives. Yes, I consider that fairly fundamental: he believes the literal word of Revelations and intends to help see it to fruition.
To find a middle ground, I will agree that he only uses religion to further his purposes. There is no evidence that he actually believes it, so you're probably correct to state that he is not a religious fundamentalist; he just plays one on TV.
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Applied to politics, fundamentalism means a social model based on strict religion, whose civil laws are based on religious norms, principles or dogmas. Islamic fundamentalism could include a reduced set of civil liberties for women, corporal penalties, sex regulation and jihad. Christian fundamentalism on the other side could include ... oh wait!
Looking at all those new bills introduced in the last years, I can't but conclude that fundamentalism is at raise in the US.
Regards, Wizord.
"Lack of evidence of 100%" does not equal "the evidence shows 0%."
But anyway, thank you for correcting my gross abuse of the language. I will never again abuse the language in this way, and I fully agree with you that neither your first nor your most recent "thank you" was dripping with sarcasm.
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Changing the definitions of the terms to suit your views is unacceptable in a debate.
The argument for it is, usually: "because Koran says so," — thus perfectly within the WordNet's definition of fundamentalism as "the interpretation of every word in the sacred texts as literal truth". See, no need to invent your own...
At the very beginning of this thread I asked for an example or two. Why can't you offer any, I wonder? Again: what do Bush and/or other high-ranking US officials advocate by appealing to some scripture's words? Awaiting...
Merci bcp.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Thanks for pointing it out. I had noticed it already that someone is wandering around labeling my stuff as flamebait even when it clearly is not. The poor smuck is just wasting his mod points though. I have excellent karma that isn't going to budge so much as an inch no matter how many mod points they throw at me. My real positive karma scores vastly outnumber the handful of mod points that my little adoring fan has to flamebait me with.
If anything I am kind of flattered that someone finds my posts so insightful that they are willing to stalk my posts and desperately try and mod them down in an attempt to keep people from reading them. People don't censor meaningless drivel; they censor stuff that has meaning and impact. I'll take earning a flamebait stalker as a badge of pride that someone finds my posts interesting enough keep tabs on everything I post.