Most XP machines will not run Vista/Windows 7/Windows 8...ignoring the fact that Windows 8 is awful. People will upgrade when their computer dies...if at all.
With Linux's only 2% desktop share, everyday's a 'slow day' in Penguinland!
After being disappointed Penguinland was not a real place discovered that Girls Games 1 has a "Penguin Land" It did not work but I got blinded by pink...F**cking love pink.
Anyway...this shit is why Linux is 75% of mobile devices and Microsoft is on 2% (Not the penguin thing) People don't buy Microsoft Phone/Surface because they want software than just works...and well that is Android. If Microsoft put more effort into creating a great experience maybe things would be different now.
Actually there's no need to upgrade, just install Firefox. Of course older hardware may actually not be able to upgrade to windows 7 and would benefit from a linux install. Just because you're lame doesn't mean everyone is.
The fact that Microsoft are so incompetent that they cannot support their own OS is he point. Using Firefox is work around.
Upgrade from XP and install IE9/10. What other manufacturer provides quick fixes for a decade old OS that is now three versions out of date?
I am astonished that anyone sane would measure from the start of the XP cycle which was unnaturally long from extensive problems as Microsoft not the user. That means that 2007 when Vista was released is a much more reasonable time....If it was any good. It wasn't it ran badly on most (all) of the machines at the time which lest many people waiting windows 2007. I have four machines in my house...only one supports Windows 7, Windows 8 is quite but none have a touch screen...making Windows 8 a no no for me.
The reality is that scenario is not unusual currently 35% of people (1 in every three) currently run XP(Vista has already dropped to 5%)
I am convinced Apple has no strategic plan(I'd say no vision), when Apple shares started dropping like a stone...Cook tried to reassure the market with hints of a smartTV. He said little of what he has going to do with the current markets.
I posted Google over a nine month period. I'd post a time series analysis if I had the time. The reality is Google produced two sets of financial statements, because most of the loss is a one of cost to restructure Motorola, making the financial statements a nonsense. Again Google is investing in Googles future...something Apple isn't.
I still don't want to talk about Mototrola, because it it simply too hard, even with your dubious maths its down to $7Billion...and you have left off $1.7 billion in net operating loss tax benefits...Googles mobile advertising is expected to grow to 4Billion Next year from 2Biliion (and 6 the year after)...is that not worth protecting, and as I said this does not include ongoing tax benefits.
Motorola will make a success with the Nexus brand. Unlike Apple it has a repeatable formula
Your trying to make out only Apple and Samsung make (serious) money from Android...In the same comment where it was worth Google spending $12.5Billion. If you think people are selling Millions of phones every quarter and making a loss year after year. I can't help you, If you cannot see how Google has captured and preserved a source of income from this deal. Read how companies Like Lenovo; Sony; ZTE are actually investing now...for profits later...Something Apple isn't
From Sony's Financial statements "Sony Mobile been fully consolidated in the same quarter of the previous fiscal year, segment sales would have been essentially flat. This was due to an increase in sales of mobile phones primarily resulting from higher average selling prices, reflecting a product portfolio shift to smartphones from feature phones, and higher unit sales of smartphones, being offset mainly by significantly lower sales of PCs"
Not just Lenovo has a diverse portfolio; LG; Huawei; Samsung; etc etc I think HTC is the exception. In reference to its profitability "Mr. Yang said, the company has been investing a lot in marketing and sales channels", again we are seeing a company investing in its future....and its not Apple.
It is not positive for all Apple to do languish, while the rest of the market are moving and shaking, you seem to consider investing, or diversifying dirty...because they distract from the profits short term. In fact you proudly post, that other that Apple will not enter existing profitable markets; does not invest in its future.
Its a worrying trend your back defending Apple on past profits alone...when its future profits are in question (all its got it are an unsustainable market cap...and a lot of money stagnating in the bank), and absolutely Apple is shrinking against opposition...it sells less phones, and its it only means of making money...in market where its profit mark-ups are looking stupid.
Seriously stop confusing Revenue and Profit. Apple has incredible growth on the back of being perceived first in new markets three times, and became the largest company on earth by market cap, by pricing its profits for optimum profitability....but its over.
I think your getting confused with English (mine not yours). The bottom line is most companies have a strategic plan, and that can be a variety of different things. If you don't understand that I can't help you. (example) http://www.planware.org/strategicsample.htm...but then we have been through this. It even has a section marked Goals.
I posted the figures, Googles revenues are up and profits are up...then its growing revenues *profitably* the fact is there is everything from tax breaks; patents; selling off STB business; as well as using its bring its Nexus Line to Motorola its difficult to calculate...and you are not capable.
You have *never* mentioned *any* future business plans from Apple; show me them. I don't see it challenging Amazon; Google; Microsoft; Facebook anytime in the near future. In reality I see a cash rich business, with no idea what to do with it.
HTC is still profitable (just not as profitable you know the difference); LG are profitable since they ditched Microsoft(and has a success with the Nexus 4); Sony is massively profitable...after buying out Ericsson (its compensating for its poor PC sales)...and they are in the market that has growing market share.
How stupid it is to quote a "% of mobile profits"....I'm confused where is Google; Sony make a profit why is it not there:)...the figures are not even close to being right. Its a guestimate from financial statements. Although for you posting a graph that shows a peak followed by a trend downwards in % profits is not really creating a compelling point. Hell it doesn;t even include companies like Lenovo and ZTE.
I'm confused why again are you pointing to a link where Google is growing faster than Apple...that's my point; why are you trying to make it?
So which PC company makes more money selling computers than Apple makes selling Macs?
Microsoft.:)
The sad fact is you are not checking you articles as you are posting, Apple is vastly profitable now..which I would never dispute. I'm saying its pursuits of profits are damaging it long term...and that includes profitability, I also say their is no prevision for he maturing market. Even from your own dubious evidence, Apple is shrinking against the opposition. What is more worrying all the evidence from you focuses on *hardware* when it has to compete providing any alternative revenue streams advertising/content/software...it suddenly looks weak because its hardware is looking weak in a maturing market because its a one trick pony. What is worse is that any mention of future plans your happy to mention all this spending, and I'm seeing nothing for it. Apples best days are clearly behind it, and even your own cherry picked evidence suggests it.
"So you realize how utterly insane it sounds for anyone to say that the purpose of a public comps y is not to make a profit?"
I didn't say that, I said the goal is not to make profit. In fact how about "preserve future profits".
You keep pointing to losing market share is acceptable as long as your profits grow in the short term. Its your fundamental point, and I am never going to be convinced ever that is rational response. Its a worrying trend nothing more. The fact that it is affecting third party development support is a simply another sign.
Your right growing revenues "unprofitably" is not a recipe for success [its not true], but Google have successes in protecting a potentially profitable revenue streams it gets from Android(...and doesn't have to pay to Apple:)
I am more interested in the future than right now. Because right now I see Google investing in their future. This whole discussion started because I said Steve Jobs failed to invest in Apples. The whole point of this discussion is the widening gap between, between Androids Market Share; Price and Apples Market Share; Price. we are now where Android smartphone market share/average price 75%/$250 to Apples 15%/$600 what about when Android is 85%/$175 to Apples 10%/$600; what about when Android is 95% to Apples 5%/$600.
The Motorola deal cuts their tax bill because Google is vastly profitable:)
Since when did selling one million devices a month become a bad thing:) [Its not the only device either; Apples market share continues to drop]Ironically you are are defending Apples lack of market share. The reality is companies make massive profits from Android phones...don't pretend otherwise(Apple type profits not so much).
You need to make up your mind what you are arguing with Apples store. I have one point, Apples pursuit of Profits over market share is stupid, It also means less money from its store. It does so because it makes more money from its phone sales *in the short term*...the growth market. The one Android and Google are fighting over Apple is giving away...Oh and control of the next big thing *Money*.
Apple does not make an awful lot of money from the computer market. It does sell a few very profitable devices, but *Microsoft* make all the money in the computer market vast amounts more than Apple, and Apple have made it clear that they won't compete(losers). I notice that the Chromebook is the best selling device on Amazon.
I seem to have become focused on Apple vs Google and that was never my intention...Its just really hard not to get drawn into comparing these companies. The more I discuss the more I find it impossible to believe that Apple is capable of conquering any more emerging markets [will it conquer TV meh] or that its current business model is sustainable in a maturing market, or that its lack of vision in investing in its own future is going to hurt it. It all feels eerily familiar like its 1997 again. I get a feeling that sooner rather than later we are going to stop discussing Apple vs Google but Android vs Windows.
So is profit not the main goal of a publicly traded company?
You seem confused. The answer is NO! a publicly traded companys goal is not to make profit. Look at my Amazon example, almost every company has some investing activity can be tangibles (New premises, R&D, Advertising...right now Google is making a land grab with Android (its trying with Google+), as is Amazon. Normally companies make various strategic plans (expand market share; extend product Line etc etc)
The whole point is that Apple is now growing *slower* than the market, so its market share is lower. Its why apple used to have 23% of the market and now occupies 14.9%, In fact the profit margin of the iphone5 is less than that of its predecessors too just makes it more worrying.
I don't think you understand your Google link. The link I provide is to the financial statements discussed in your [albeit short] article, I actually quote the figures, re-read my comment on Google it even covers how Google is expanding beyond advertising...it even owns a phone company:) (like a suggest Apple should)
I would comment on the acquisition of Motorola, but the reason why your maths is completely wrong is tax (and patents). Motorola may look 12.5Billion on the books, but in reality read it http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/31/us-motorolamobility-google-tax-idUSTRE77U1QX20110831. The short version is owning Motorola will cuts Googles Tax Bill by 80% It was incredibly good value.
As for you criticism of Motorola...LG recently is having a massive success with the Nexus Phone, Asus is having massive success with the Nexus Tablet, its likely to be a success...the concern is upsetting its partners.
I lave looked through you link. I will have to read it better later, but the whole point of it is to choose market share over profits, by cutting price...and do it before your competitors. (although Apple already has many of the Advantages of Scale and brand now...although you can already see it losing these)
HP is trying to move to get money work harder, by getting into different markets as the PC market is mature 5% margin (Microsoft get all the real profit) Although that CEO got sacked. Like I say I'm not comfortable talking about Microsoft.
I am astonished that Apple cannot make money from the itunes store. Apparently Google/Amazon can. I suspect your just making that up...it currently is small compared to what they make from their hardware...but as I repeatly argue..this one is all about marketshare. Apple have already lost this book/movie/App market to Google/Amazon.
I don't argue the market is rational, but money is normally pretty unbiased, and right now it does not see Apple making the big gains it once had, and everyone agrees.
Microsoft is not growing, but its a utility product and pretty stable (makes lots of profits), Apple could have gone for the PC market...its not like a great deal of profits come from their current PC presence...and it could compete on price, or licensed its OS, but again it has no interest in market share.
The truth is Apple has to change because the market changed...and Steve Jobs made no prevision for surviving in a maturing market, although a master at overtaking immature ones. The game as changes, and I see nothing in your comments which will change the current *trend*.
Its clear that Apple users do not want a walled garden, or limited to Apple store...or even that Apple does not have privacy, When an Apple developer attacked users recently, by naming and shaming them through their twitter posts, he also claimed a 75% piracy rate.
We are covering too many businesses, your responses are flawed in that they focus on one element "profits", and problem with their current market "iPods, Macs, media, phones, and tablets"(sic) [Software is something I argue they should do] is that maintaining its profitability without expanding its market(exactly what you criticise Amazon for) is short sighted.
Googles revenue is up this year 9 month period http://investor.google.com/earnings.html from $19,087,000 to $27,632,000 Their profits are up $8,235,000 and $9,328,000 (they were down last quarter with half a billion restructuring of Motorola, but they sold off their set-top box this quarter for $2.5 billion), I'm not sure about Google making 95% of their money from Advertising...but as I said with Google Docs they already make $1 Billion from Google Docs, and are making a massive push against Microsoft, there on-line store is reportedly selling 400% more in a year, its strategy of going for market-share over profits is working to its advantage going forward....but the short version is your view of google is not based in reality...heard about the xPhone:)
What I predict is Apples business model is unsustainable, and the market agrees with me with it having 30% of its value wipes of its market cap, even the most ardent Apple faithful are looking for the next product (TV/Watch who cares...will it have retina display). The reality is nobody is seeing Apples massive mark-ups being sustainable, will Apple see some profit and revenue growth, only for as long as its market grows faster than is market share shrinks while its market share stays remains relevant. That could be as little as one quarter. Its just another electronics company now.
[I don't really want to talk about Microsoft...Their strategy of using its Monopoly on the Desktop to leverage itself into Mobile...is simply too large, in response to your comments Apple should have gone for Microsoft's throat.]
Of course it did numb nuts. And you were right only when you said that iPhone had done it.
Remember, iPhone is still the biggest selling smartphone. Nothing outsells it. There is no "iPod Killer" other than iPhone.
iPod is a device, not an OS. Android is an OS, not a device.
No same empirical fact,the Smartphone replaced the mp3 player. Its end began with the iPhone...its why I bought he origninal iPhone.
Here is the thing [ignoring the fact that the Samsung Galaxy III took that crown], that is why Apple is suddenly looking very very vulnerable. As much as I talk about Apple hardware/software being weak. Its real weakness is its only successful in America where its high margins(and costs) are hidden be locking the customer into a hire purchase agreement. Its not just been a successful strategy its been insanely sucessful while they have an incredibly successful brand [with perceived first mover advantage]... but going forward that is also looking vulnerable as high-end Android takes the innovation crown with ease...with numbers. Worldwide where wages are a lot lower and customers are expected to buy a phone outright its been an unmitigated disaster. Its not just places like Brazil and China...its Europe all lager smartphone markets than America....its not a good thing they have one phone its their Achilles' heel.
MS makes 5 to 10x *less* profit for each Windoows license than Apple makes per Mac sold. MS makes $15 on each Windows Phone license compared to $200 - $300 for each iPhone sold.
"Facebook (Social Network)..."
You consider Facebook to be financially successful?
You got a bit carried away with your carriage returns. Look Apple [brick and mortar] stores are not a replacement for what Amazon do....An expansion of its On-line itunes store is.
Google is decreasing Revenue per click...but is getting more clicks:) while protecting that revenue stream, and are expansing into social (Amazon); electronics(Apple); office+OS(Microsoft).
Microsoft simply raised the price of its OS product to make to a drop in PC licenses it currently expansing into Hardware(Apple) and search(Google) its failing, but its trying.
Amazon is getting into Electronics(Apple) and is currently has 40% of where shoppers go first.
Your right Facebook is just potential, but then they are immature compared to the the other companies. Although rumours of it producing hardware(Apple), and replacing Goole as search are well known.
Apple has amassed an incredible amount of cash, but apparently is a one trick pony....and well it looks to be following RIMM out the door, perhaps if they has a visionary running their company.
Silly slashdotter, he meant what he could use the device for. Installing some random OS does not constitute doing something (ok, for you and me it does, not for the op)
You do understand that installing the OS is not the end objective, most people actually run Applications from within an OS:)
No same empirical fact,the Smartphone replaced the mp3 player.
The trouble is I can't take you seriously if your not going to accept the [new] reality. iOS has lost to Android [has done for sometime]....and soon windows will fall to Android. That is the new world order. That is just how things are, and the future looks very Glum, I'm sorry.
Apple haters will always whine / hate on the iPad or iOS and ask for tick box lists that the iPad does not have. Then when an Android tablet conveniently follows Apple's lead (re: Nexus) they will claim they never wanted those features all along (re: SD card slot).
Android fanboi sheep will never stop hating on the iPad while they fear buyer's remorse. Full stop.
No Android users want an SD card on their are even posts in this thread. Perhaps its because Apple haters(sic), are prepared to look at their own hardware criticality. In fact maybe they are *choosing* Android over Apple because they are capable of such criticisms..or maybe its because they have a choice of vendors. Depending on who you believe Android not including a card slot, is either to work around Microsofts Misuse of patents or to push your data into Googles cloud unlike Apple who use it to create a product portfolio from one product by charging $100 for 16gb of RAM or half a Nexus 7
Just like the nano, the mini and the shuffle cannibalised the iPod sales? And yet Apple dominated the MO3 player market right through. And grew to be a huge company from it. Not a single real-live "iPod Killer" emerged, despite 100s of contenders to the crown.
I agree I'd go further the iPhone was the "iPod Killer", yet the smartphone market never make it above 25% its not down to 14.9%. The tablet market has already dropped to 50% and that trend is likely to continue with the launches of the Nexus and Fire. The question is what went *right* with the iPod that made it so resilient against competitors...and what is so *wrong* with the iPhone and iPad.
Its problem wasn't cannibalising its market. It was cannibalising its share [yes I know] of the market post Nexus 7 [I mean good value 7" tablets] launch with a tablet hat looked poor in comparison. The reality is the "iPod killer"....was the Android Smartphone.
I cannot use this product on my android phone; 5 year old router, and Ubuntu box attached to my TV!!! Like say Upnp/DNLA the standard that everyone else uses. Apple propietaruy crap just "doesn't work" well with anything other than other Apple kit.
...except there is very little wrong with TV. It does need more time-shifting, and less advertising, but solutions have been constantly improving since the VHS/Betamax wars. Todays set-top boxies/Tivos/Hard Disc Players are already very good, and yes there is room for improvement.
...it became a electronics company. Microsoft is a software company....wanting to become a electronics company.
To be fair right now I think all electronics/hardware companies need to have more Software on their portfolio as that is where a lot of the advantages in this new smart world come from. Steve Jobs as he moved the company into an electronicvs one always stressed they were a software company.
Randon Steve Jobs Quote "If you look at the reason that the iPod exists, it's because these really great Japanese consumer electronics companies who kind of own the portable music market, invented it and owned it, couldn't do the appropriate software, couldn't conceive of and implement the appropriate software. Because an iPod's really just software. It's software in the iPod itself, it's software on the PC or the Mac, and it's software in the cloud for the store. And it's in a beautiful box, but it's software. If you look at what a Mac is, it's OS X, right? It's in a beautiful box, but it's OS X. And if you look at what an iPhone will hopefully be, it's software." - All Things Digital conference, May 30, 2007
All three companies are scrambling to find their way in the IT world of today.
I think you have been asleep. The interesting think about these companies interact with each other has changed. Intel...have their own OS without Microsoft...Tizen[I suspect the OS they would use]; Microsoft produced a tablet without Intel, and as its own preferred OEM!. Dell announced they will do nothing, Nada, Zilch its sitting like a little bitch doing nothing while everyone else old fashioned competes [knives in backs/fronts everywhere]....Now HP on the other hand.
The reality is the desktop actually is unchanged...its damaged a little for its mobile push, but its still the crappy monopoly it always was just a little more touchscreen.
Slashdot Mirror
It's $40. Have fun.
Most XP machines will not run Vista/Windows 7/Windows 8...ignoring the fact that Windows 8 is awful. People will upgrade when their computer dies...if at all.
With Linux's only 2% desktop share, everyday's a 'slow day' in Penguinland!
After being disappointed Penguinland was not a real place discovered that Girls Games 1 has a "Penguin Land" It did not work but I got blinded by pink...F**cking love pink.
Anyway...this shit is why Linux is 75% of mobile devices and Microsoft is on 2% (Not the penguin thing) People don't buy Microsoft Phone/Surface because they want software than just works...and well that is Android. If Microsoft put more effort into creating a great experience maybe things would be different now.
Actually there's no need to upgrade, just install Firefox. Of course older hardware may actually not be able to upgrade to windows 7 and would benefit from a linux install. Just because you're lame doesn't mean everyone is.
The fact that Microsoft are so incompetent that they cannot support their own OS is he point. Using Firefox is work around.
Upgrade from XP and install IE9/10. What other manufacturer provides quick fixes for a decade old OS that is now three versions out of date?
I am astonished that anyone sane would measure from the start of the XP cycle which was unnaturally long from extensive problems as Microsoft not the user. That means that 2007 when Vista was released is a much more reasonable time....If it was any good. It wasn't it ran badly on most (all) of the machines at the time which lest many people waiting windows 2007. I have four machines in my house...only one supports Windows 7, Windows 8 is quite but none have a touch screen...making Windows 8 a no no for me.
The reality is that scenario is not unusual currently 35% of people (1 in every three) currently run XP(Vista has already dropped to 5%)
I am convinced Apple has no strategic plan(I'd say no vision), when Apple shares started dropping like a stone...Cook tried to reassure the market with hints of a smartTV. He said little of what he has going to do with the current markets.
I posted Google over a nine month period. I'd post a time series analysis if I had the time. The reality is Google produced two sets of financial statements, because most of the loss is a one of cost to restructure Motorola, making the financial statements a nonsense. Again Google is investing in Googles future...something Apple isn't.
I still don't want to talk about Mototrola, because it it simply too hard, even with your dubious maths its down to $7Billion...and you have left off $1.7 billion in net operating loss tax benefits...Googles mobile advertising is expected to grow to 4Billion Next year from 2Biliion (and 6 the year after)...is that not worth protecting, and as I said this does not include ongoing tax benefits.
Motorola will make a success with the Nexus brand. Unlike Apple it has a repeatable formula
Your trying to make out only Apple and Samsung make (serious) money from Android...In the same comment where it was worth Google spending $12.5Billion. If you think people are selling Millions of phones every quarter and making a loss year after year. I can't help you, If you cannot see how Google has captured and preserved a source of income from this deal. Read how companies Like Lenovo; Sony; ZTE are actually investing now...for profits later...Something Apple isn't
From Sony's Financial statements "Sony Mobile been fully consolidated in the same quarter of the previous fiscal year, segment sales would have been essentially flat. This was due to an increase in sales of mobile phones primarily resulting from higher average selling prices, reflecting a product portfolio shift to smartphones from feature phones, and higher unit sales of smartphones, being offset mainly by significantly lower sales of PCs"
Not just Lenovo has a diverse portfolio; LG; Huawei; Samsung; etc etc I think HTC is the exception. In reference to its profitability "Mr. Yang said, the company has been investing a lot in marketing and sales channels", again we are seeing a company investing in its future....and its not Apple.
It is not positive for all Apple to do languish, while the rest of the market are moving and shaking, you seem to consider investing, or diversifying dirty...because they distract from the profits short term. In fact you proudly post, that other that Apple will not enter existing profitable markets; does not invest in its future.
Its a worrying trend your back defending Apple on past profits alone...when its future profits are in question (all its got it are an unsustainable market cap...and a lot of money stagnating in the bank), and absolutely Apple is shrinking against opposition...it sells less phones, and its it only means of making money...in market where its profit mark-ups are looking stupid.
Seriously stop confusing Revenue and Profit. Apple has incredible growth on the back of being perceived first in new markets three times, and became the largest company on earth by market cap, by pricing its profits for optimum profitability....but its over.
I think your getting confused with English (mine not yours). The bottom line is most companies have a strategic plan, and that can be a variety of different things. If you don't understand that I can't help you. (example) http://www.planware.org/strategicsample.htm...but then we have been through this. It even has a section marked Goals.
I posted the figures, Googles revenues are up and profits are up...then its growing revenues *profitably* the fact is there is everything from tax breaks; patents; selling off STB business; as well as using its bring its Nexus Line to Motorola its difficult to calculate...and you are not capable.
You have *never* mentioned *any* future business plans from Apple; show me them. I don't see it challenging Amazon; Google; Microsoft; Facebook anytime in the near future. In reality I see a cash rich business, with no idea what to do with it.
HTC is still profitable (just not as profitable you know the difference); LG are profitable since they ditched Microsoft(and has a success with the Nexus 4); Sony is massively profitable...after buying out Ericsson (its compensating for its poor PC sales)...and they are in the market that has growing market share.
How stupid it is to quote a "% of mobile profits"....I'm confused where is Google; Sony make a profit why is it not there :)...the figures are not even close to being right. Its a guestimate from financial statements. Although for you posting a graph that shows a peak followed by a trend downwards in % profits is not really creating a compelling point. Hell it doesn;t even include companies like Lenovo and ZTE.
I'm confused why again are you pointing to a link where Google is growing faster than Apple...that's my point; why are you trying to make it?
So which PC company makes more money selling computers than Apple makes selling Macs?
Microsoft. :)
The sad fact is you are not checking you articles as you are posting, Apple is vastly profitable now..which I would never dispute. I'm saying its pursuits of profits are damaging it long term...and that includes profitability, I also say their is no prevision for he maturing market. Even from your own dubious evidence, Apple is shrinking against the opposition. What is more worrying all the evidence from you focuses on *hardware* when it has to compete providing any alternative revenue streams advertising/content/software ...it suddenly looks weak because its hardware is looking weak in a maturing market because its a one trick pony. What is worse is that any mention of future plans your happy to mention all this spending, and I'm seeing nothing for it. Apples best days are clearly behind it, and even your own cherry picked evidence suggests it.
"So you realize how utterly insane it sounds for anyone to say that the purpose of a public comps y is not to make a profit?"
I didn't say that, I said the goal is not to make profit. In fact how about "preserve future profits".
You keep pointing to losing market share is acceptable as long as your profits grow in the short term. Its your fundamental point, and I am never going to be convinced ever that is rational response. Its a worrying trend nothing more. The fact that it is affecting third party development support is a simply another sign.
Your right growing revenues "unprofitably" is not a recipe for success [its not true], but Google have successes in protecting a potentially profitable revenue streams it gets from Android(...and doesn't have to pay to Apple :)
I am more interested in the future than right now. Because right now I see Google investing in their future. This whole discussion started because I said Steve Jobs failed to invest in Apples. The whole point of this discussion is the widening gap between, between Androids Market Share; Price and Apples Market Share; Price. we are now where Android smartphone market share/average price 75%/$250 to Apples 15%/$600 what about when Android is 85%/$175 to Apples 10%/$600; what about when Android is 95% to Apples 5%/$600.
The Motorola deal cuts their tax bill because Google is vastly profitable :)
Since when did selling one million devices a month become a bad thing :) [Its not the only device either; Apples market share continues to drop]Ironically you are are defending Apples lack of market share. The reality is companies make massive profits from Android phones...don't pretend otherwise(Apple type profits not so much).
You need to make up your mind what you are arguing with Apples store. I have one point, Apples pursuit of Profits over market share is stupid, It also means less money from its store. It does so because it makes more money from its phone sales *in the short term*...the growth market. The one Android and Google are fighting over Apple is giving away...Oh and control of the next big thing *Money*.
Apple does not make an awful lot of money from the computer market. It does sell a few very profitable devices, but *Microsoft* make all the money in the computer market vast amounts more than Apple, and Apple have made it clear that they won't compete(losers). I notice that the Chromebook is the best selling device on Amazon.
I seem to have become focused on Apple vs Google and that was never my intention...Its just really hard not to get drawn into comparing these companies. The more I discuss the more I find it impossible to believe that Apple is capable of conquering any more emerging markets [will it conquer TV meh] or that its current business model is sustainable in a maturing market, or that its lack of vision in investing in its own future is going to hurt it. It all feels eerily familiar like its 1997 again. I get a feeling that sooner rather than later we are going to stop discussing Apple vs Google but Android vs Windows.
So is profit not the main goal of a publicly traded company?
You seem confused. The answer is NO! a publicly traded companys goal is not to make profit. Look at my Amazon example, almost every company has some investing activity can be tangibles (New premises, R&D, Advertising...right now Google is making a land grab with Android (its trying with Google+), as is Amazon. Normally companies make various strategic plans (expand market share; extend product Line etc etc)
The whole point is that Apple is now growing *slower* than the market, so its market share is lower. Its why apple used to have 23% of the market and now occupies 14.9%, In fact the profit margin of the iphone5 is less than that of its predecessors too just makes it more worrying.
I don't think you understand your Google link. The link I provide is to the financial statements discussed in your [albeit short] article, I actually quote the figures, re-read my comment on Google it even covers how Google is expanding beyond advertising...it even owns a phone company :) (like a suggest Apple should)
I would comment on the acquisition of Motorola, but the reason why your maths is completely wrong is tax (and patents). Motorola may look 12.5Billion on the books, but in reality read it http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/31/us-motorolamobility-google-tax-idUSTRE77U1QX20110831. The short version is owning Motorola will cuts Googles Tax Bill by 80% It was incredibly good value.
As for you criticism of Motorola...LG recently is having a massive success with the Nexus Phone, Asus is having massive success with the Nexus Tablet, its likely to be a success...the concern is upsetting its partners.
I lave looked through you link. I will have to read it better later, but the whole point of it is to choose market share over profits, by cutting price...and do it before your competitors. (although Apple already has many of the Advantages of Scale and brand now...although you can already see it losing these)
HP is trying to move to get money work harder, by getting into different markets as the PC market is mature 5% margin (Microsoft get all the real profit) Although that CEO got sacked. Like I say I'm not comfortable talking about Microsoft.
I am astonished that Apple cannot make money from the itunes store. Apparently Google/Amazon can. I suspect your just making that up...it currently is small compared to what they make from their hardware...but as I repeatly argue..this one is all about marketshare. Apple have already lost this book/movie/App market to Google/Amazon.
I don't argue the market is rational, but money is normally pretty unbiased, and right now it does not see Apple making the big gains it once had, and everyone agrees.
Microsoft is not growing, but its a utility product and pretty stable (makes lots of profits), Apple could have gone for the PC market...its not like a great deal of profits come from their current PC presence...and it could compete on price, or licensed its OS, but again it has no interest in market share.
The truth is Apple has to change because the market changed...and Steve Jobs made no prevision for surviving in a maturing market, although a master at overtaking immature ones. The game as changes, and I see nothing in your comments which will change the current *trend*.
Its clear that Apple users do not want a walled garden, or limited to Apple store...or even that Apple does not have privacy, When an Apple developer attacked users recently, by naming and shaming them through their twitter posts, he also claimed a 75% piracy rate.
We are covering too many businesses, your responses are flawed in that they focus on one element "profits", and problem with their current market "iPods, Macs, media, phones, and tablets"(sic) [Software is something I argue they should do] is that maintaining its profitability without expanding its market(exactly what you criticise Amazon for) is short sighted.
Googles revenue is up this year 9 month period http://investor.google.com/earnings.html from $19,087,000 to $27,632,000 Their profits are up $8,235,000 and $9,328,000 (they were down last quarter with half a billion restructuring of Motorola, but they sold off their set-top box this quarter for $2.5 billion), I'm not sure about Google making 95% of their money from Advertising...but as I said with Google Docs they already make $1 Billion from Google Docs, and are making a massive push against Microsoft, there on-line store is reportedly selling 400% more in a year, its strategy of going for market-share over profits is working to its advantage going forward....but the short version is your view of google is not based in reality...heard about the xPhone :)
What I predict is Apples business model is unsustainable, and the market agrees with me with it having 30% of its value wipes of its market cap, even the most ardent Apple faithful are looking for the next product (TV/Watch who cares...will it have retina display). The reality is nobody is seeing Apples massive mark-ups being sustainable, will Apple see some profit and revenue growth, only for as long as its market grows faster than is market share shrinks while its market share stays remains relevant. That could be as little as one quarter. Its just another electronics company now.
[I don't really want to talk about Microsoft...Their strategy of using its Monopoly on the Desktop to leverage itself into Mobile...is simply too large, in response to your comments Apple should have gone for Microsoft's throat.]
Of course it did numb nuts. And you were right only when you said that iPhone had done it.
Remember, iPhone is still the biggest selling smartphone. Nothing outsells it. There is no "iPod Killer" other than iPhone.
iPod is a device, not an OS. Android is an OS, not a device.
No same empirical fact ,the Smartphone replaced the mp3 player. Its end began with the iPhone...its why I bought he origninal iPhone.
Here is the thing [ignoring the fact that the Samsung Galaxy III took that crown], that is why Apple is suddenly looking very very vulnerable. As much as I talk about Apple hardware/software being weak. Its real weakness is its only successful in America where its high margins(and costs) are hidden be locking the customer into a hire purchase agreement. Its not just been a successful strategy its been insanely sucessful while they have an incredibly successful brand [with perceived first mover advantage]...
but going forward that is also looking vulnerable as high-end Android takes the innovation crown with ease...with numbers. Worldwide where wages are a lot lower and customers are expected to buy a phone outright its been an unmitigated disaster. Its not just places like Brazil and China...its Europe all lager smartphone markets than America....its not a good thing they have one phone its their Achilles' heel.
"Jobs failed to spend any of the money on building Apple a competitor to "
"Amazon (retail sales); "
http://www.apple.com/retail/
"Google (Search); "
With decreasing ad revenue per click....
"Microsoft (License its OS); "
MS makes 5 to 10x *less* profit for each Windoows license than Apple makes per Mac sold. MS makes $15 on each Windows Phone license compared to $200 - $300 for each iPhone sold.
"Facebook (Social Network)..."
You consider Facebook to be financially successful?
You got a bit carried away with your carriage returns. Look Apple [brick and mortar] stores are not a replacement for what Amazon do....An expansion of its On-line itunes store is.
Google is decreasing Revenue per click...but is getting more clicks :) while protecting that revenue stream, and are expansing into social (Amazon); electronics(Apple); office+OS(Microsoft).
Microsoft simply raised the price of its OS product to make to a drop in PC licenses it currently expansing into Hardware(Apple) and search(Google) its failing, but its trying.
Amazon is getting into Electronics(Apple) and is currently has 40% of where shoppers go first.
Your right Facebook is just potential, but then they are immature compared to the the other companies. Although rumours of it producing hardware(Apple), and replacing Goole as search are well known.
Apple has amassed an incredible amount of cash, but apparently is a one trick pony....and well it looks to be following RIMM out the door, perhaps if they has a visionary running their company.
Silly slashdotter, he meant what he could use the device for. Installing some random OS does not constitute doing something (ok, for you and me it does, not for the op)
You do understand that installing the OS is not the end objective, most people actually run Applications from within an OS :)
No same empirical fact ,the Smartphone replaced the mp3 player.
The trouble is I can't take you seriously if your not going to accept the [new] reality. iOS has lost to Android [has done for sometime]....and soon windows will fall to Android. That is the new world order. That is just how things are, and the future looks very Glum, I'm sorry.
Apple haters will always whine / hate on the iPad or iOS and ask for tick box lists that the iPad does not have. Then when an Android tablet conveniently follows Apple's lead (re: Nexus) they will claim they never wanted those features all along (re: SD card slot).
Android fanboi sheep will never stop hating on the iPad while they fear buyer's remorse. Full stop.
No Android users want an SD card on their are even posts in this thread. Perhaps its because Apple haters(sic), are prepared to look at their own hardware criticality. In fact maybe they are *choosing* Android over Apple because they are capable of such criticisms..or maybe its because they have a choice of vendors. Depending on who you believe Android not including a card slot, is either to work around Microsofts Misuse of patents or to push your data into Googles cloud unlike Apple who use it to create a product portfolio from one product by charging $100 for 16gb of RAM or half a Nexus 7
With the market leading tablet. A device that created an new product category, and turned PCs to decline.
You're an idiot.
See what I did there :)
then refuted by examining the company results.
Then do so. ;) I've checked my information.
Just like the nano, the mini and the shuffle cannibalised the iPod sales? And yet Apple dominated the MO3 player market right through. And grew to be a huge company from it. Not a single real-live "iPod Killer" emerged, despite 100s of contenders to the crown.
I agree I'd go further the iPhone was the "iPod Killer", yet the smartphone market never make it above 25% its not down to 14.9%. The tablet market has already dropped to 50% and that trend is likely to continue with the launches of the Nexus and Fire. The question is what went *right* with the iPod that made it so resilient against competitors...and what is so *wrong* with the iPhone and iPad.
Its problem wasn't cannibalising its market. It was cannibalising its share [yes I know] of the market post Nexus 7 [I mean good value 7" tablets] launch with a tablet hat looked poor in comparison. The reality is the "iPod killer"....was the Android Smartphone.
...its a cutting reference to the iPad 2 hardware on a smaller scale....Its low resolution screen; last years chip.
Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.
I don't think you understand the page have linked to.
I cannot use this product on my android phone; 5 year old router, and Ubuntu box attached to my TV!!! Like say Upnp/DNLA the standard that everyone else uses. Apple propietaruy crap just "doesn't work" well with anything other than other Apple kit.
I include this link to a Father Ted its brilliant on its own but it emphasises a fundamental point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25N-4zrk390 ...small...far away.
...except there is very little wrong with TV. It does need more time-shifting, and less advertising, but solutions have been constantly improving since the VHS/Betamax wars. Todays set-top boxies/Tivos/Hard Disc Players are already very good, and yes there is room for improvement.
...it became a electronics company. Microsoft is a software company....wanting to become a electronics company.
To be fair right now I think all electronics/hardware companies need to have more Software on their portfolio as that is where a lot of the advantages in this new smart world come from. Steve Jobs as he moved the company into an electronicvs one always stressed they were a software company.
Randon Steve Jobs Quote
"If you look at the reason that the iPod exists, it's because these really great Japanese consumer electronics companies who kind of own the portable music market, invented it and owned it, couldn't do the appropriate software, couldn't conceive of and implement the appropriate software. Because an iPod's really just software. It's software in the iPod itself, it's software on the PC or the Mac, and it's software in the cloud for the store. And it's in a beautiful box, but it's software. If you look at what a Mac is, it's OS X, right? It's in a beautiful box, but it's OS X. And if you look at what an iPhone will hopefully be, it's software." - All Things Digital conference, May 30, 2007
All three companies are scrambling to find their way in the IT world of today.
I think you have been asleep. The interesting think about these companies interact with each other has changed. Intel...have their own OS without Microsoft...Tizen[I suspect the OS they would use]; Microsoft produced a tablet without Intel, and as its own preferred OEM!. Dell announced they will do nothing, Nada, Zilch its sitting like a little bitch doing nothing while everyone else old fashioned competes [knives in backs/fronts everywhere]....Now HP on the other hand.
The reality is the desktop actually is unchanged...its damaged a little for its mobile push, but its still the crappy monopoly it always was just a little more touchscreen.