It would be really nice to find some alternatives... but I have to wonder if this, like so many other 'efficiency' discoveries and antioil research, will 'disappear' too. Really...
It's a little thing called 'confirming' your information. A duty, really... I really don't want to know what other chemicals, further, are being flushed into our waterways... that ANY are is bad enough.
Even Einstein has been wrong before, so it's not really enough to rattle off a list of degrees. Doesn't mean I can't be convinced; however, your hypothesis should be easily proved or disproved, shouldn't it? If there is a leeching-out affect of trapped gasses from ice, it would be most prominant at the surface... some small amount may melt during a warm spell (i.e., yes its not out of flux) and would release some, so you'd have to examine an ice sample at multiple levels. Install sensors at the 1 year layer, 5, 10, 50, 100, and several more, so on... Since all previous ice layers would have been influenced by climate, it's most likely imperative to do the guage routine under climate as well (as opposed to removing a house sized block of glacier to a cold house somewhere)... however long it takes, a year maybe. And monitor changes in gas levels at each layer... granted, a year's time is not 600,000 years time, but our ability to detect changes is also quite refined and any minor amount of change, if any, should be telling.
We have a lab out at the sci complex (not quite ON campus, granted) with some very heavy supercomuting devoted very deliberated to glacier studies. But I couldn't tell you if they've run anything of the sort at all. But with all your degrees, you should set this up! I wonder what it would cost.
This is right... hurricanes happen with or without global warming... and also undergo 'hot' and 'cold' cycles of about 30 years each... we're only 2-3 years into the most recent hot cycle... and will endure it for a long time to come.
That said, we're really entering in the age where we can remember events that occurred over a few generation's time... This new cycle has caught us by surprise because we had 30ish years off, and the last hot cycle just had us incredibly lucky... People got used to it and are now incensed when things get back to reality.
that ALSO said, the fact that there is a natural cycle (and this goes for ALL of your arguments) is not reason enough to assume that human-source warming isn't also adding a few percentile points to matters.
Miniscule amounts does not make a poison make safe.... consider this: there is a certain amount of mercury that is GOOD for you... i.e., gives your body's defenses a workout... and then there is the amnount that KILLS YOU DEAD. Both amounts are absolutely miniscule compared to the overall mass of your body.
Your argument is good, and I also read state of fear and found it very interesting and I root for a lot of it... but at the same time, it isn't safe to discount information that you don't necessarily like either.
Heh, dude... you really don't want global warming, if you don't like the cold... why? cuz if the freshwater ice in greenland/northern canada and cap conntinue to melt--and (with the possible exception of greenland) they're doing a whole heck of a lot of melting--it would kill the salinity balance in the northern atlantic (and recent articles (sorry, no links, but I did see them here and in discover/scientific american) suggest the levels are already way off standard)... currently, the ocean currents that bring warm water to northern north america and most of europe operates in that the warm water comes north, cools, and sinks, and moves south again to counterbalance... it's literally the pump that provides us with a climate warmer than is natural for these regions. Changing the salinity level would cause the water 'density' to lessen, thus making it unable to sink even when cold... this would mean a temporary increase in temps, but would also collapse the circuit, and (in an as yet only speculative few years) cut off our access to warm weather. You, I (being a mainer), and europe would suffer harshly from suddenly harsh weather and the onset of either another mini ice age (like the one seen from about 1300 to 1900) or major one (since we're overdue).
so.... uh, yeah... you don't want global warming... at all.
A few things... while I agree that humanity is not the sole cause, these figures are pretty hard to dismiss... with that in mind, by what method can you 'assure' me that ice layers are not, as you say, 'frozen.' Where's your data? Granted, this is a challenge to you, but seriously as well, if you have that data, I'd love to see it, because I am a bit torn on this... though, there is NO question whatsoever that we need to rectify this issue a lot, even if we're not as bad a cause as we think. The levels of prozac and caffiene found in the SAME salmon extractions is evidence enough. =P
Werner von Braun said, notably, [and here paraphrased] that there would be four prime excuses for soaking up huge amounts of money (25+billion a pass) for space based weapons. First, it would be sold to the public that the reason was to defend us against the Russians... so far, so good. Then, he said, it would be some 'fanatic' or 'unstable' faction that we needed defense against... if you potentially include terrorism in this classification, he's 2 for 2... 3rd, he said, would be asteroids, and [oddly], 'finally' aliens. And that no one of these campaigns would have a shred of truth to it. It was said... make of it what you will.
someone says: "While at it, there's no reason to claim extraterrestrial life is intelligent either when we're yet to communicate with any."... now let our own example come into this... How long have we been singing into space like an innocent baby robin? Hmm... 100 years or so? A little over? Now, here we having discovered this beautiful new potential called 'Quantum Entanglement' which, so far, has allowed several experiments to successfully 'teleport' information, faster than the speed of light, simultaneously between two particles... with no wave, radiation, or emission of any sort (at least that we currently are able to detect (which is just as well for this argument)) After only a 100 years broadcasting. So let's say that in another 50 we'll have pretty much mastered its use and we stop emitting altogether. As far as anyone else is concerned, we just winked out... however, our 'loudness' to date is certainly a beacon to anyone who happens to be passing by the tens of thousands of stars within range of our earliest broadcasts to date. Now, to complete this windbag extravaganza, assume this is a natural progression within races... and so other culture, 1000 lightyears away did the same 'winkout' about 900 years ago. Meaning, their last 'loud' communication passed us by about 60 years before we even started listening/caring. You have to understand, space is big... and electromagnetic transmissions need time to get from point A to B... we've only been listening for a very short period of time, and even if there were 100000 alien civilizations (of technological note, that is) in our galaxy, the odds of our being here and listening at exactly the same time as they were sending, making light of the travel time difference, of course, when our own natural progression may end emission usage on our world within the next century (a blip in space-time)... you see my point. Also consider the fact that we have no problem shooting tranqs into the treetops and catching the primates that fall out, but don't feel terribly compelled to give them all our technology or set up political dialogue with babboon cliques, now do we? Heh. Your argument is not invalid, but you can't really ignore mine either.
Yeah, whatever else you may read here, anyone who says 'intergalactic' is aptly demonstrating the extent to which they do NOT understand space at all... they're just throwing together what words they know and in attempt to sound credible...
granted, anything that moves between galaxies would be 'intergalactic' its just not a reasonable concept at this time.
Heh, as much as I enjoy making fun of the bush, it wouldn't be HIM doing the shooting... consider him a generational late comer to the scene who is best characterized as the comically dense nephew to our little productions main villian. The foil, or something...
If you are to believe all the exmilitary deathbed confessions going around these days, we've been shooting at them for a long time, and have had a few notable successes... I, of course, am in no position to know either way...
But, let us say, for argument's sake, that its all true; that given roman depictions of fiery shields in the sky, and funky lookin stick figures chalked on rock by native americans which look eerie like our current sociocultural fad monsters, and they HAVE been hanging around for 1000s of years... why oh why would anyone worry about them invading NOW?
If our privatized alien-tech interests (no--if you believe everything else, then you're obligated also to believe that its no longer in gov't/military hands, but in private hands with 'connections' to people within the gov't/military who are not representative of the whole) do instigate a war, I frankly would bet on the aliens' tech capacity being a tad more surgical than our own... i.e., I would expect them to have a greater ability to disassociate the good guys from the bad guys and keep collateral damage down, maybe even to 0.
Really, I wish I knew what was going on. Whether it's aliens or just us coming up with inertialess black weapons (as they have been seen and videotaped doing their laws-of-physics-deaf maneuvers) (and frankly, the implications are worse if we have it than if just THEY have it), I just hate not knowing. *whine*
I suppose it is nice to have software to do this stuff for ya... it's like bb forums or some such likeness. But as I have done, so shall I say: Write your OWN software! Write it in modperl! Or php... or flash (though here you'd still want a php/perl handler to submit your vars)! You can do it!
Here here... all this stuff is completely disturbing; I myself have a web project that would rely heavily on 'citizen' reviews, and I don't like the idea that despite the fact that I've written the code from scratch, that I conceptualized every aspect of it myself and with help from no person or company, I could be ordered to desist based on a way-too-inclusive patent owned by someone else who has done something completely unrelated or even similar to my work, just because one of the active concepts is 'similar' or falls under a vague description.
It's wrong. Period. This has become a tool for Microsoft and other big names to stifle competition by using law to prevent anyone from doing competative work, rather than competing by making a higher quality product. What's next? Patents on methods of eating?
What I don't understand is why the public allows this. We are the power after all... not the government, not the companies... they rely on us for their income and power. It is for us to revoke it. Patents would be nothing but paper and bits if the public decided 'hey, we no longer authorize you to have that kind of power.' And woosh, it's done. I can understand the initial use of patents to protect inventions genuined developed by a group such that they aren't copied and molested by larger groups or illegal reverse engineering... but the problem here is that no one needs to reverse engineer google's work in order to create a 'review form'... anyone can come up with the same thing, on their own, in an afternoon.
Unless regulation of patents is restored, or nuances regarding broader use and public-domain recognition occur, I suggest we delegitimize this process, or reclaim it for ourselves. No easy answers, but there's also no easy argument to support the current abuses.
Well, don't let this go to your head... MS is also one of the primary lobbying factors behind a bill that looks to pass in the senate, which will import an extra 350,000 middle-class/tech foreign workers to further depress the wages of the american worker (and likely be utilized heavily by MS itself (otherwise why would they lobby for it?)). It's a really disgusting act both on their part and on that of the senate. The Byrd amendement to have that caveat withdrawn from the bill failed yesterday 14 to 85. With the middleclass and tech workforce already being gouged from both sides (decreasing benefits, fewer raises and increasing cost of living), how could we possibly need another few million low-wage foreign visa workers flooding this market? I seriously doubt that MS and other tech giants who would undoubtedly use this low wage influx would do the right thing and lower the prices of all their goods and utility charges... sigh.
Let's look at S.Korea and software antitrust in the past;
Electronic Arts uses its media murder machine to attempt to block some south korean game development competition in the USoA. Reaction: They turn around and make a greater effort to sell to their own people. Result: Spawning one of the single largest gaming markets in the world, making the rebuffed company very successful.
Hmm!
I wonder if MS trying to pull the same retarded move will result in a significant boost for linux and/or an explosion of games designed to run on linux? Woosh!
Re:Watch a little more closely ...
on
Deep in the Core
·
· Score: 1
well yes, the velocity is tied very closely to the masses of both the orbiter and orbitee, so yeah, millions of sun-masses would do that for ya =)
Re:Watch a little more closely ...
on
Deep in the Core
·
· Score: 1
C'mon people... hasn't anyone taken basic highschool or (gasp) college level physics... orbital mechanics such as that 'slingshot' are damn common and very well understood... it's covered in Keplerian Phyhsics... see http://www.braeunig.us/space/orbmech.htm, section 1.10 (starting just above the marker)... the hidden 'body' is at the extreme 'southern' aspect of that elliptical orbit... meaning that the majority of its orbit is swining away from the 'black hole'... in the short period of time i is swinging around the black hole, it appears to do so very fast. This is BASIC PHYSICS. I'm explaining it badly, but its no mystery... that slingshot effect is perfectly natural.
uh uh, no...
Dinos and reptiles are not closely related at all... the bird relationship is, while theoretical, the most vast of likelyhoods, but in a more linear fashion (i.e., they're the survivors of what was dinosaurdom)... another very strong theory pins protodinosaurs (i.e, the very first and least advanced among them) to have come from the same family that also eventually spawned mammalia... granted this is some time before the grand age of the dinosaurs, but it certainly places them at a bit of a 'cousin' kinship to us... which certain goes to explain the likenesses between their complex and high-metabolic structures, birds, and ours. Reptiles and amphibians are many many many many steps down the ladder from any of these groups, and are closer to fish in kinship than to dinos, birds, or mammals.
Granted, this is all theory, but then again, so is relativity... we have a lot more evidence to confirm both than evidence that throws it off.
People do understand (hopefully) that dinos, including pteros, are not lizards... right? please, someone tell me this fact isn't lost on the masses...
they are more closed related to mammals than to reptiles.
$self->update( rant => 0 );
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It would be really nice to find some alternatives... but I have to wonder if this, like so many other 'efficiency' discoveries and antioil research, will 'disappear' too. Really...
It's a little thing called 'confirming' your information. A duty, really... I really don't want to know what other chemicals, further, are being flushed into our waterways... that ANY are is bad enough.
... however long it takes, a year maybe. And monitor changes in gas levels at each layer... granted, a year's time is not 600,000 years time, but our ability to detect changes is also quite refined and any minor amount of change, if any, should be telling.
Even Einstein has been wrong before, so it's not really enough to rattle off a list of degrees. Doesn't mean I can't be convinced; however, your hypothesis should be easily proved or disproved, shouldn't it? If there is a leeching-out affect of trapped gasses from ice, it would be most prominant at the surface... some small amount may melt during a warm spell (i.e., yes its not out of flux) and would release some, so you'd have to examine an ice sample at multiple levels. Install sensors at the 1 year layer, 5, 10, 50, 100, and several more, so on... Since all previous ice layers would have been influenced by climate, it's most likely imperative to do the guage routine under climate as well (as opposed to removing a house sized block of glacier to a cold house somewhere)
We have a lab out at the sci complex (not quite ON campus, granted) with some very heavy supercomuting devoted very deliberated to glacier studies. But I couldn't tell you if they've run anything of the sort at all. But with all your degrees, you should set this up! I wonder what it would cost.
This is right... hurricanes happen with or without global warming... and also undergo 'hot' and 'cold' cycles of about 30 years each... we're only 2-3 years into the most recent hot cycle... and will endure it for a long time to come.
That said, we're really entering in the age where we can remember events that occurred over a few generation's time... This new cycle has caught us by surprise because we had 30ish years off, and the last hot cycle just had us incredibly lucky... People got used to it and are now incensed when things get back to reality.
that ALSO said, the fact that there is a natural cycle (and this goes for ALL of your arguments) is not reason enough to assume that human-source warming isn't also adding a few percentile points to matters.
Miniscule amounts does not make a poison make safe.... consider this: there is a certain amount of mercury that is GOOD for you ... i.e., gives your body's defenses a workout... and then there is the amnount that KILLS YOU DEAD. Both amounts are absolutely miniscule compared to the overall mass of your body.
Your argument is good, and I also read state of fear and found it very interesting and I root for a lot of it... but at the same time, it isn't safe to discount information that you don't necessarily like either.
Heh, dude... you really don't want global warming, if you don't like the cold... why? cuz if the freshwater ice in greenland/northern canada and cap conntinue to melt--and (with the possible exception of greenland) they're doing a whole heck of a lot of melting--it would kill the salinity balance in the northern atlantic (and recent articles (sorry, no links, but I did see them here and in discover/scientific american) suggest the levels are already way off standard) ... currently, the ocean currents that bring warm water to northern north america and most of europe operates in that the warm water comes north, cools, and sinks, and moves south again to counterbalance... it's literally the pump that provides us with a climate warmer than is natural for these regions. Changing the salinity level would cause the water 'density' to lessen, thus making it unable to sink even when cold... this would mean a temporary increase in temps, but would also collapse the circuit, and (in an as yet only speculative few years) cut off our access to warm weather. You, I (being a mainer), and europe would suffer harshly from suddenly harsh weather and the onset of either another mini ice age (like the one seen from about 1300 to 1900) or major one (since we're overdue).
so.... uh, yeah... you don't want global warming... at all.
A few things... while I agree that humanity is not the sole cause, these figures are pretty hard to dismiss... with that in mind, by what method can you 'assure' me that ice layers are not, as you say, 'frozen.' Where's your data? Granted, this is a challenge to you, but seriously as well, if you have that data, I'd love to see it, because I am a bit torn on this... though, there is NO question whatsoever that we need to rectify this issue a lot, even if we're not as bad a cause as we think. The levels of prozac and caffiene found in the SAME salmon extractions is evidence enough. =P
Werner von Braun said, notably, [and here paraphrased] that there would be four prime excuses for soaking up huge amounts of money (25+billion a pass) for space based weapons. First, it would be sold to the public that the reason was to defend us against the Russians... so far, so good. Then, he said, it would be some 'fanatic' or 'unstable' faction that we needed defense against... if you potentially include terrorism in this classification, he's 2 for 2... 3rd, he said, would be asteroids, and [oddly], 'finally' aliens. And that no one of these campaigns would have a shred of truth to it. It was said... make of it what you will.
someone says: "While at it, there's no reason to claim extraterrestrial life is intelligent either when we're yet to communicate with any." ... now let our own example come into this... How long have we been singing into space like an innocent baby robin? Hmm... 100 years or so? A little over? Now, here we having discovered this beautiful new potential called 'Quantum Entanglement' which, so far, has allowed several experiments to successfully 'teleport' information, faster than the speed of light, simultaneously between two particles... with no wave, radiation, or emission of any sort (at least that we currently are able to detect (which is just as well for this argument)) After only a 100 years broadcasting. So let's say that in another 50 we'll have pretty much mastered its use and we stop emitting altogether. As far as anyone else is concerned, we just winked out... however, our 'loudness' to date is certainly a beacon to anyone who happens to be passing by the tens of thousands of stars within range of our earliest broadcasts to date. Now, to complete this windbag extravaganza, assume this is a natural progression within races... and so other culture, 1000 lightyears away did the same 'winkout' about 900 years ago. Meaning, their last 'loud' communication passed us by about 60 years before we even started listening/caring. You have to understand, space is big... and electromagnetic transmissions need time to get from point A to B... we've only been listening for a very short period of time, and even if there were 100000 alien civilizations (of technological note, that is) in our galaxy, the odds of our being here and listening at exactly the same time as they were sending, making light of the travel time difference, of course, when our own natural progression may end emission usage on our world within the next century (a blip in space-time)... you see my point. Also consider the fact that we have no problem shooting tranqs into the treetops and catching the primates that fall out, but don't feel terribly compelled to give them all our technology or set up political dialogue with babboon cliques, now do we? Heh. Your argument is not invalid, but you can't really ignore mine either.
Yeah, whatever else you may read here, anyone who says 'intergalactic' is aptly demonstrating the extent to which they do NOT understand space at all... they're just throwing together what words they know and in attempt to sound credible... granted, anything that moves between galaxies would be 'intergalactic' its just not a reasonable concept at this time.
Heh, as much as I enjoy making fun of the bush, it wouldn't be HIM doing the shooting... consider him a generational late comer to the scene who is best characterized as the comically dense nephew to our little productions main villian. The foil, or something... If you are to believe all the exmilitary deathbed confessions going around these days, we've been shooting at them for a long time, and have had a few notable successes... I, of course, am in no position to know either way... But, let us say, for argument's sake, that its all true; that given roman depictions of fiery shields in the sky, and funky lookin stick figures chalked on rock by native americans which look eerie like our current sociocultural fad monsters, and they HAVE been hanging around for 1000s of years... why oh why would anyone worry about them invading NOW? If our privatized alien-tech interests (no--if you believe everything else, then you're obligated also to believe that its no longer in gov't/military hands, but in private hands with 'connections' to people within the gov't/military who are not representative of the whole) do instigate a war, I frankly would bet on the aliens' tech capacity being a tad more surgical than our own... i.e., I would expect them to have a greater ability to disassociate the good guys from the bad guys and keep collateral damage down, maybe even to 0. Really, I wish I knew what was going on. Whether it's aliens or just us coming up with inertialess black weapons (as they have been seen and videotaped doing their laws-of-physics-deaf maneuvers) (and frankly, the implications are worse if we have it than if just THEY have it), I just hate not knowing. *whine*
I suppose it is nice to have software to do this stuff for ya... it's like bb forums or some such likeness. But as I have done, so shall I say: Write your OWN software! Write it in modperl! Or php... or flash (though here you'd still want a php/perl handler to submit your vars)! You can do it!
Here here... all this stuff is completely disturbing; I myself have a web project that would rely heavily on 'citizen' reviews, and I don't like the idea that despite the fact that I've written the code from scratch, that I conceptualized every aspect of it myself and with help from no person or company, I could be ordered to desist based on a way-too-inclusive patent owned by someone else who has done something completely unrelated or even similar to my work, just because one of the active concepts is 'similar' or falls under a vague description. It's wrong. Period. This has become a tool for Microsoft and other big names to stifle competition by using law to prevent anyone from doing competative work, rather than competing by making a higher quality product. What's next? Patents on methods of eating? What I don't understand is why the public allows this. We are the power after all... not the government, not the companies... they rely on us for their income and power. It is for us to revoke it. Patents would be nothing but paper and bits if the public decided 'hey, we no longer authorize you to have that kind of power.' And woosh, it's done. I can understand the initial use of patents to protect inventions genuined developed by a group such that they aren't copied and molested by larger groups or illegal reverse engineering... but the problem here is that no one needs to reverse engineer google's work in order to create a 'review form' ... anyone can come up with the same thing, on their own, in an afternoon.
Unless regulation of patents is restored, or nuances regarding broader use and public-domain recognition occur, I suggest we delegitimize this process, or reclaim it for ourselves. No easy answers, but there's also no easy argument to support the current abuses.
Well, don't let this go to your head... MS is also one of the primary lobbying factors behind a bill that looks to pass in the senate, which will import an extra 350,000 middle-class/tech foreign workers to further depress the wages of the american worker (and likely be utilized heavily by MS itself (otherwise why would they lobby for it?)). It's a really disgusting act both on their part and on that of the senate. The Byrd amendement to have that caveat withdrawn from the bill failed yesterday 14 to 85. With the middleclass and tech workforce already being gouged from both sides (decreasing benefits, fewer raises and increasing cost of living), how could we possibly need another few million low-wage foreign visa workers flooding this market? I seriously doubt that MS and other tech giants who would undoubtedly use this low wage influx would do the right thing and lower the prices of all their goods and utility charges... sigh.
Let's look at S.Korea and software antitrust in the past; Electronic Arts uses its media murder machine to attempt to block some south korean game development competition in the USoA. Reaction: They turn around and make a greater effort to sell to their own people. Result: Spawning one of the single largest gaming markets in the world, making the rebuffed company very successful. Hmm! I wonder if MS trying to pull the same retarded move will result in a significant boost for linux and/or an explosion of games designed to run on linux? Woosh!
well yes, the velocity is tied very closely to the masses of both the orbiter and orbitee, so yeah, millions of sun-masses would do that for ya =)
C'mon people... hasn't anyone taken basic highschool or (gasp) college level physics... orbital mechanics such as that 'slingshot' are damn common and very well understood... it's covered in Keplerian Phyhsics... see http://www.braeunig.us/space/orbmech.htm, section 1.10 (starting just above the marker)... the hidden 'body' is at the extreme 'southern' aspect of that elliptical orbit... meaning that the majority of its orbit is swining away from the 'black hole' ... in the short period of time i is swinging around the black hole, it appears to do so very fast. This is BASIC PHYSICS. I'm explaining it badly, but its no mystery... that slingshot effect is perfectly natural.
uh uh, no... Dinos and reptiles are not closely related at all... the bird relationship is, while theoretical, the most vast of likelyhoods, but in a more linear fashion (i.e., they're the survivors of what was dinosaurdom)... another very strong theory pins protodinosaurs (i.e, the very first and least advanced among them) to have come from the same family that also eventually spawned mammalia... granted this is some time before the grand age of the dinosaurs, but it certainly places them at a bit of a 'cousin' kinship to us... which certain goes to explain the likenesses between their complex and high-metabolic structures, birds, and ours. Reptiles and amphibians are many many many many steps down the ladder from any of these groups, and are closer to fish in kinship than to dinos, birds, or mammals. Granted, this is all theory, but then again, so is relativity... we have a lot more evidence to confirm both than evidence that throws it off.
People do understand (hopefully) that dinos, including pteros, are not lizards... right? please, someone tell me this fact isn't lost on the masses... they are more closed related to mammals than to reptiles. $self->update( rant => 0 );