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Microsoft Threatens To Withdraw Windows in S.Korea
RocketJeff writes "South Korea's Fair Trade Commission (FTC) has been investigating Microsoft since 2001 for violations of South Korea's antitrust rules. According to a Reuters article, part of a recent Microsoft regulatory filing states 'it might be necessary to withdraw Windows from the Korean market or delay offering new versions in Korea.' Basically, Microsoft is threatening to take their marbles and go home if they don't get the ruling they want."
Right...that should convince the South Korean government (and the rest of the world) that they're not an abusive monopoly.
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
Screw you guys! I'm going home!
"You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles
Only old people use Windows in Korea.
Are you...Are you some kind of genius?
No, ma'am, I'm just a regular Slashdot reader.
Come on, we all know that MS isn't going to withdraw from the South Korean market. This is just silly.
It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
"And who will that inconvenience?"
End of lesson. You may press the button.
It's their software, shouldn't they be able to sell it or not sell it where they wish?
I am Homer of Borg. Resistance is Fut.. Mmmmmmmm, Donuts!
South Korea prepares a heart felt thank you letter.
Now that's a death ray!
the headline below this is "Why do people switch to Linux?"
"It is a good divine that follows his own instructions" - Portia, The Merchant of Venice
Wouldn't you?
Breakfast served all day!
This is common language in such filings to let investors know of worst case scenarios. For reference, see such filings by SCO on Groklaw.
So no, it's not a threat or a conspiracy
If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
"So Korea, why did you switch to Linux?"
Korea: "For a variety of reasons. First, Microsoft violated many of my anti-trust regulations. Second, because it is foreign owned and controlled, even it their home country is one of my allies. Third, TCO is very high. Fourth, I have had many security and quality issues with their Jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none operating system. Fifth, Microsoft in response to the charges had threatened to slow or not at all release new products. And finally, because they took their marbles and went home."
"Their marbles?"
Korea: "Yes, I'm very disappointed, they had some very pretty catseyes and peeries."
Man. Are these people lazy, greedy or what? An entire country, with a considerably strong economy that DEC, Pr1me, Unisys, etc. would absolutely have sold their souls for. Microsoft can't have it their way so they're going to pull out. Blimey.A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Since the whole point of their bundling was to prevent competitors access to markets, walking away from the market isn't exactly an effective counter is it?
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
It would be nice if South Korea were to decide that they didn't need new versions of Windows enough to justify changing their laws.
I can't think of anything that would get Cedega fixed up and ready for prime time faster.
I'm sure you could get Steve Ballmer to say a few more stupid comments:
http://www.axisofstevil.com/djballmerfresh.swf
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
This is the best thing that could have happened... the more stubborn and ridiculous microsoft acts, the more they will have to rely on how good their product is rather than monopolization... and with that, either windows will get better or linux will become more prevalent. Either way I'm happy
Barring piracy, given the number of online gamers in South Korea, wouldn't this just encourage game developers to develop for other platforms?
If they had to develop for Linux because that was the only legally available platform that could run on their hardware with gaming support, then game companies would likely have the critical mass they'd need to start really building for Linux.
Even if they just wanted to continue developing for Windows, I'm sure a number of publishers would push a lot more support for Wine development, so as not to lose sales in South Korea.
It's always a bad threat when following through will cause the one threatening more harm than good.
Linux - because it doesn't leave that Steve Ballmer aftertaste.
I don't want to get flamed too hard here, but why not? I know M$ has done some predatory things in the past, but they also do a lot of good and get constantly bashed for it. In an open market why should M$ have to sell their goods in a Country that constantly hassles them? I say let them, this will allow the open source movement to see how well they can step up to the plate as well. Just my $0.02...
This is a clever strategy on the part of Microsoft. The Koreans will be brought to their knees when they realize they need Windows to play Starcraft.
So, if I'm reading it right, Microsoft is saying that they will either not release a "special" version of windows for S. Korea, or that releases will be delayed (presumably to create the modifications required by their Anti-Trust regulations).
This seems perfectly reasonable. They're not even saying they will necessarily pull windows from the market, it might just take them longer to develop the "MS Vista - S. Korea Version" than it would to release the standard. Nothing to see here... more Microsoft non-news.
Plus, if S. Korea is saying "play nice" and they say "no" outright, this is still well within their rights, there is no mandate that they must release software for the masses (In fact, SlashThink directly opposes this). More power to S. Korea if they think they can actually pull that off...
"If you put butter and salt on it, it tastes like salty butter." -Terry Pratchet, on Popcorn.
bye. buh bye. bye. bye. bye. buh bye. buh bye. bye. bye. buh bye.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
it's probably been mentioned in a comment i missed, but there's no way they're pulling out... it's just FUD, trying to pressure SK into the ruling they want... if they don't get the ruling, they'll still seel in that country
If my company depended on Microsoft software, and I saw Microsoft repeatedly threatening to withdraw that software (as they did here, and in Europe, and with MS Office for the Mac), then I would immediately start looking for alternatives, such as Linux, BSD, Solaris, or OS/X, along with applications such as OpenOffice, Firefox, and so on.
1) open mouth ...
2) insert shotgun
$$$ profit! $$$
Wouldn't South Korea just be able to say, "Very well then, your product no longer enjoys any copyright protection by our laws"?
Copyright is a privlidge governement extends to corperations, after all. It can be revoked. If the software is not available, what do they have to lose?
Usually Microsoft just comes in with a sweet-heart deal, cutting prices. This doesn't appear that shape of deal at all.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
ANYTHING BUT THAT!!!! Het Microsoft, can you pull out of here as well? Thanks!
My my microsoft in hot water again... what a supprise! Microsoft has so much bad PR now that they may ass well just release "Windows Virus Edition" and just get it all over with!
Schrodinger's cat- A cat is put in a sealed box. Attached to which is a radioactive nucleus and a canister of poison gas
24. ANTI-SOUTH KOREA PROVISION
Windows may not be used and is not licensed for use in any area of South Korea because they are big doodyheads and we don't like them any more.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
I would think a better threat would be to say that They (microsoft)plan on stepping up efforts to spead the use of windows in South Korea... I mean, how scary would that be?
Good thing they make sucky movies!
Intelligent Design: because MATH is HARD.
Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer already lost their marbles.
No outsourcing business for you. Next in line.
"Basically, Microsoft is threatening to take their marbles and go home if they don't get the ruling they want."
I hate to rain on the Microsoft bashing parade, but I think it's more like Korea saying: "We don't like your marbles, change them." And Microsoft saying:"Fuck you guys, I like my marbles the way they are, take them as is or I take them home."
"If you don't like the way we play then we'll take our toys and go home!" --Microsoft and every 8-year-old boy at least once.
Okay, so what's wrong if Microsoft does not want to sell Windows to the Korean market? If I make a product, I don't have to sell it to you.
I think this is a great chance for Linux on the desktop to get a toe hold. All those complaining sound like the people who wish for something, then complain when they get it.
Linux O Muerte!
Don't ask why people switch to Linux after that...
It might be necessary for them not to release windows to Korea anymore because of some Korean court ruling, not because they want to. There's no threat/bluff/etc.
This would be excellent for us Linux users. The MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game) industry sees Korea as a huge market. If they couldn't run their games on Windows, then the game companies would have to port their stuff to Linux to stay in the Korean market. I see this as a win-win all the way around.
-Runz
...and see if we can get M$ to make good on the same threat in the USA and the rest of the world for that matter!!
Enjoy,
Randy.
Oh, please.
MS isn't going to pull out of South Korea. Everyone involved already knows that. The statement is just part of the usual grandstanding that always goes on with this sort of thing. They won't pull out because it's too large a market to just write off, and they don't want another country deciding to go with a competitor nationwide.
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
All quiet on the Windows NT Parallel (maybe a reboot?). I guess if they cut their relationship with the South, they can finally make Microsoft Kim Jong, the sequel to the beloved M$ Bob.
Those are, in fact, things that the South Korean government could demand if they found Microsoft to be a monopoly, and filings are supposed to mention such risks that investors take. As unlikely as it may seem to us, if Microsoft is prohibited by the South Korean government from selling Windows, or required to make modifications to the software before they sell it, they might actually comply with the order.
"I'm going to fucking kill Korea. I'll fucking bury them. I've done it before, and I'll do it again."
The truth about Scientology, Xenu, and you: Operation Clambake
Good idea! Pulling Windows off of the shelves will definitely stop people from pirating it from other sources!
I know it's easy to assume evilness simply because it's Microsoft, but I don't see it in this case. If a market is potentially going to be hostile to your product in the near future, it's prudent to plan for an adjustment or elimination of your product's presence in that market; if you don't, you stand to overproduce and lose a lot of money. I'd be doing the same thing.
SCO is just the picture of normalcy.
Now if only we could get them to pull their products from the US, I would be happy.
I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress -J Adams
I guess this would be one reason.
s html?tid=4&tid=106
http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/05/10/28/1226229.
If I don't want to sell you something, by what moral principle could you compel me to do so anyway?
The "if you're gonna be a shitty customer, I'm gonna ban you from my store" play seems perfectly reaosnable to me.
There are three possible explanations:
1. Microsoft doesn't make a lot of money in South Korea, so they don't care if they're there or not.
2. This is just a stunt better used by an 8 year old rather than a mult-billion dollar software company.
3. Microsoft is desperate to hold on to its domination of the planet earth. After all, when you control over 90% of the desktops on earth there's nowhere to go but down.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
Windows uses old people!
"You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles
Do you really think they will or want to stop selling their crap in Korea?
Geez! Only a duhmerican can be naive like that...
this will push the gaming market far enough along to where all games will be available for linux which will eliminate the need for everybody's wintendo which will turn into even less cash for ms.
My thoughts on this:
Initially: If Google threatened to stop offering services for France/German users, they can get around those pesky censorship laws. I doubt people would be arguing there. In a millionth of a second, there'd be dozens of replies: it's not the same, killing someone and evading taxes are both 'crimes' but they aren't equal. Microsoft has been convicted and investgated for antitrust issues in multiple countries - I'm willing to go with "MS is bad".
That being said, MS still has the right to decide "You know what? Not worth it guys - see you when the next friendly government comes in." I have a feeling this would probably hurt MS more than SK though.
Without services in Windows (over a medium/long term), companies will switch to non-MS OSes and apps. South Korea is a fairly decent market with some industry heavyweights - if they switch, the companies that support them will have to offer non-MS support.
While MS could EASILY take the hit in profit, they seem to be deathly afraid of Linux/etc getting any sort of a hold. Anywhere. Thinking about moving an arm of goverment over to Linux? We'll give you a BIG discount this year. Now, it seems standard operating practice for many organizations to threaten a Linux shift to get better pricing.
So will MS leave SK? Not likely. The "we may leave the market" statement is a good scare tactic, but like another poster said, is normal to hear in the beginning. MS is just blowing smoke, like any other company. They'll probably tie the antitrust hearing/penalties up in courts for a while, devote resources into getting a better say in government, and wait till it possibly blows over.
Just giving up and saying "Hey linux, you deal with these guys - they don't like our rules" doesn't seem to happen all that often. Hope the SK government knows this and doesn't prematurely get scared.
Aren't they then assuming that people are actually paying for Windows in S. Korea. What good does it do you to withdraw your product from the market when everyone is just stealing it anyway?
Dude, that's like Matrix 101.
Just because it's MS doesn't mean they're doing it for the reasons you think they are doing it.
The more copies of Windows that are in South Korea, the more a negative ruling is likely to cost Microsoft. If you were looking at losing your shirt (or in this case, maybe a sleeve), would you keep dumping money in or would you take a "wait and see" approach?
Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out...
This is the correct response to not getting your way, at least in commerce. When the consumer doesn't like the product as it is and demands that it change before they buy it, the distributor or manufacturer has every right to say "fine, then we won't sell it to you."
S. Korea should invest heavily in Apple and then buy Apple PCs for desktops and use Linux for Servers... that will show Microsoft they aren't the only player on the block. They may have a lot of Marbles, but Apples are perttier and don't break as often when used.... Linux has great Smashers.... they're not pretty but they do the job really well.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
South Korea said, "that's ok, we'll just use Linux and WINE." Buh-zing Microsoft.
Now, how do we get them to withdraw from the US market?
Withdrawal doesn't work. Some little windows will get out and soon you will have lots of illegitimate windows running around.
I don't think MS will really withdraw Windows from a whole country, but it would be a cool experiment if it did.
:)
Imagine , a country where Windows isn't sold ( and persumably, there's some means to stop people from pirating it). What would they do?
Will they switch to Linux?
Buy Macs?
Have a mix of Operating Systems according to individual requirements?
Develop their own OS?
inquiring geek wants to know
You are right. It is. They have the right to do whatever they want with it. If they don't like the terms of dealing with a country they have the right to limit distribution in that country.
/. ...
Of course this is
-everphilski-
You could construe MS's statement as a threat. Or, it could be simply a caveat to investors i.e. - we have legal concerns that may force us to remove our product from Korea or delay Windows Vista deployment. MS has a legal obligation to warn investers of concerns that they know about that could effect the bottom line, and hence the stock price. To do otherwise invites class action suits.
[Insert pithy quote here]
I always wondered why they didnt try this in Europe.
It would have been a HUGE hit to the EC to say, hey weve got a solution you dont get any MS products anymore PERIOD
While it may have been seen as a bluff , closing a few dozen MS office woulda scared the HELL out of the European Commision.
Right or Wrong there is NO WAY POSSIBLE the EC Could have explained it was doing good when no customer in Europe could upgrade, buy, etc. The people would have dissolved the damm comission.
Antitrust laws: if you can't get Socialism, they're the next-best thing.
When the Justice Department and other anti-trust parties asked Microsoft to separate IE from the OS, Microsoft said the same thing on withdrawing Windows 98/2000 running out there. Well, back then Desktop Linux wasn't ready to challenge it (remember, OpenOffice.org and Mozilla/Firefox didn't reach 1.0 until 2002).
Now, Microsoft wants to pull the same feat again; should Korean government back down? Hmm, tough call. But if I were to make IT procurement decision for Korean government, it should be a sign that they should NOT upgrade to Windows Vista and instead forming a task force to strengthen desktop Linux development. No government should be prey to a mega-corporation of this type of blackmail. They are already striving to support Firefox/W3C standard in all government websites, maybe it's time to consider go further than that.
During my tour of S. Korea any store would rent me a extended evaluation copy for $5 (us funds). I am sure they where screwing me on the price but what are you going to do.
In S. Korea I found you can buy anything you want if you have the cash (twice the price if you are a foreigner).
Corruption is the norm.
How do we get MS to withdraw from the US market? :)
to make Microsoft withdraw from the rest of the world too...
Think about it; if Korea gets its way and MS are forced to release a version specifically for them, other governments around the world can use it as a precedent to get the version of Windows from MS that they want. Over time, there's the big chance that it could totally fragment the Windows market for MS - goverments would determine how their products shipped in each country.
Now that's not really on. It isn't good for the consumer (we already have those stupid Windows XP N editions over here in Europe which serve no purpose), and could cause all sorts of weird problems if various bits and pieces are left out of different versions.
I'm also baffled as to how this has never affected Apple. Apple ships OSX with Quicktime, iTunes and iChat AV, and I don't see anyone forcing them to bundle/unbundle their product features. Sure, MS has abused its monopoly with Windows, but you can also argue quite fundamentally that Apple holds its monopoly over its own OS just as well, if not moreso than MS ever has. While it has never abused it, it would be interesting to see how Apple's 'it just works' mentality would function if components such as iLife were missing from OSX. Regardless of abuse of monopolies, unbundling features from any OS is ultimately not benefitting anyone.
The joke that they're a child refusing the play was already made in the summary - read the marbles bit. You're just repeating it. Make up your own joke, fucktard.
I applaud Microsoft's hard stance on this, and hope that they withdraw all support and future sales of MS products to S. Korea, a powerhouse of a tech economy that's surprised pretty much the entire world in it's post-Korean War explosion into the high-tech scene.
This could be the best thing to happen to the OSS world since Mr. Torvalds and RMS began collaborating on some projects...
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
Pulling their software would prove that they really are concerned about computer security in the US.
So South Korea will just have to get its Microsoft products from China. If Microsoft went through with such a threat, there would be a huge increase in software piracy in South Korea, and then MS would have to resort to tactics such as drastically reducing the cost of Microsoft software in the South Korean market to draw people away from the pirated software. I don't see how this threat is benefiting Microsoft at all. It doesn't seem to help with their case any. Obviously a ruling that Microsoft would have to separate Messenger and Media Player from the OS would cause a delay in new versions, but that's a part of doing business internationally.
I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.
A monopoly corporation can dictate terms to an entire nation, demanding to be exempt from their laws. Let them do what they want, or they cripple South Korea. Who will stop them?
How Bush fucked us over, #34,451: appointing industry lobby lawyers to the Justice Department who simply ignored the findings of the courts, letting Microsoft go unmolested and whole at the beginning of this numskull's reign. The world will be paying for that for another decade.
Go Linux. It's the pinhole of sunlight you sight at the top of the rubble blocking the collapsed mineshaft entrance. We might make it out of here...
I would like to see other OS used there. I know games are popular over there, but this might help make gaming popular.
Isn't South Korea one of the most pirated countries?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
(interrupting) Unh-unh, screw you, home. (with appropriate gestures)
Microsoft is going to pull out. They are like the teenager in the back seat of the car at a drive-in, enjoying the sensation of screwing until it's too late.
The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel...
Overheard coming from a closed room high atop a building in Redmond, WA: "Kekekekeke..."
Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
This is great! Please repeat in Europe and North America, thank you Microsoft!
My question is, what is Microsoft's policy on Iran ?u bchannel_id=52&story_id=24881&name=EU+Big+Three+to +consult+on+Ahmadinejad+remarks
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?s
~jennifer.k~
Cogent discussion encouraged. Flames cheerfully ignored.
StarCraft runs pretty well under cedega (faster than under Windows for some graphics device configurations).
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
..."Ok. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, Bill."
Remember how Microsoft predicted fire, brimstone and the crumbling of the U.S. economy if they had to delay the release of Windows 98 because of the antitrust case? And they got their way, and 98 ended up being delayed anyway because Microsoft just didn't have it done in time?
I say, call their bluff, South Korea.
Steve Ballmer is Eric Cartman's father?!?!
It's all fun and games until someone loses the key to the handcuffs.
Let's look at S.Korea and software antitrust in the past; Electronic Arts uses its media murder machine to attempt to block some south korean game development competition in the USoA. Reaction: They turn around and make a greater effort to sell to their own people. Result: Spawning one of the single largest gaming markets in the world, making the rebuffed company very successful. Hmm! I wonder if MS trying to pull the same retarded move will result in a significant boost for linux and/or an explosion of games designed to run on linux? Woosh!
It's an OS. If they want to quit selling it because people are suing them and they can't make enough money in that arena to warrant fighting the lawsuits, then they should be able to quit selling it. You act as if an OS is some civil right or something.
Do what we say and no one gets hurt.
Wu-Tang Name: Half-Cut Skeleton Get your own Wu-Na
Yeah right. You know how rampant piracy is there? I wouldn't be surprised to find that MS sells more copies of Windows in North Korea than they do in South Korea.
Actually, it installs and runs fine under standard WINE. (Er, other than some bizarre painting bugs during multiplayer setup, but it's usable, and the game itself works perfectly...)
[mikeee is still waiting for Starcraft 2 and will buy it the day it appears. I don't care if the game mechanics are identical, pretty new 3D graphics would be sweet.]
But there is also the matter of public opinion. Microsoft put itself in the limelight with its monopoly over the desktop, so it's something they'll just have to contend with. What makes this whole story funny is that there ARE alternatives.
This is EXACTLY why Massachusetts and ALL governments should insist on open formats for public records. It's not right that public records be held hostage!
What would happen if Microsoft's proprietary XML format was used and Microsoft told Massachusetts that if they didn't get their way they would stop selling Windows in that state? How would the public continue to access their own public records?
It amazes me that some people can't see this danger.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
"If the KFTC enters an order requiring Microsoft to remove code or redesign Windows uniquely for the Korean market, it might be necessary to withdraw Windows from the Korean market or delay offering new versions in Korea," Microsoft said.
... taking their marbles and going home, acting like an 8-year old, etc. If you read the above quote you will see that all they said was that if South Korea requires a version of Windows uniquely for Korea (by virtue of the mix of "allowable" services the OS includes - the list of allowable features no doubt a function of whatever SKorean companies they are trying to protect), then MS would be forced to (temporarily) pull out of South Korea, since, as all of us software developers know, they can't just snap their fingers and have a customized version ready.
It's amazing to me how everyone in this forum is so very quick to point out how poorly MS is behaving
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
Microsoft doesn't like all the anti-trust stuff arranged around them, right?
So Korea is anti-Microsoft (or neutral, but definetly not pro-Microsoft).
Well, allow them to go away if they don't like the rules. Microsoft will be happy, Korea will be happy (the beast got rid of itself).
If only Microsoft did this in ALL countries, we wouldn't have any Windows around!
Another reason
Now what am I gonna do about my new shirt:
0 1&no=286&lv=all#
http://t09.co.kr/wizmart.php?query=view&code=0001
American goverment is crazy but crazy enough to start a war for a companies sake? Or should that be another war?
Sure they could start a trade war but the US needs the rest of the world more then the rest of the world needs the US.
These things are always a bit of a showdown, who has the bigger balls. For a long time MS has had the biggest but in the last few years a lot has changed. US goverment itself is more and more looking at other OSes to supply its needs. Pentagon using Linux for its future soldier project, NSA with their own linux code available as opensource, some local goverments going to openformats etc etc.
I would be much suprises if any hostile move by MS would result in anything else then more countries and companies reconsidering their reliance on MS. Isn't korea part of the asian countries attempts to improve linux already? Then again MS shooting itself in the foot would hardly be a first.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
When I read the story, I immediately thought that having microsoft withdraw windows from s. Korea might be a very good thing for linux games and applications in general. If the s. Korean market moves to alternative platforms, developers such as Blizzard, EA, Activision will have to port their games to them in order to continue selling to the massive gaming market. In addition, application vendors will also see this benefit. So I hope that this isn't just a hollow threat...
In linux libertas
Whoo! More Linux MMORPGs..? :3
It's never just a game when you're winning. - George Carlin
North Korea = repressive dictatorship
South Korea = windowless freedom
I KNOW there is a joke in there somewhere, but I'm dammed If I can find it
But how are you going to put on security updates? How do you reinstall XP if Microsoft refuses to authenticate your copy? What will happen in the future when Microsoft stops selling software and only "rents" it?
You are free to get parts and service for your Ford from anybody, but you lack even those basic freedoms with Microsoft's software. Your car analogy is falling apart.
I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress -J Adams
It will be really interesting to see who blinks first. This has wider implications than just Windows, this is a test case for how much the rest of the world respects our brain share products. They make things, solid tangible things, we have up to 80% of our value in brain share products. Solid things have a certain intrinsic value, now we get to find out the value of our brain share economy. What's stopping Korea from saying, "Okay, would you like to see our new version of Kia WIndows? We're quite proud of it." The same thing goes for drug patents and other over-priced software products.
It's also interesting to see MSFT threatening a trade war with a foreign country. A country that the US owes a LOT of money. Korea and China buy a whole lot of the national debt we're using to fight the folly in Iraq and pay for the natural disaster rebuilding. We're trillions of dollars in debt and Japan, Korea and China own the bulk of those markers.
This is going to be really interesting. MSFT may win this one, I imagine there will be a lot of diplomatic weasels working in the background. It really depends on whether Korea thinks it's worth pushing.
But the hand writing on the wall is saying the day will come when some American company like MSFT is going to start flexin' and that foreign power is going to tell them to go stuff. And the US government isn't going to come to the rescue because of the very certain knowledge that it's no longer a guarantee that we could win a trade war, especially with countries that make everything we now depend on.
Economic Pearl Harbor is going to happen, it's just a matter of when.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Did Micro$oft already provide the korean's with the source code to winblows? I thought I read that a while back. Down With Micro$oft in Every Market... not just korea
I beleive this statement was made by a low level intern in Seoul.
HPC for Primates. Read Cluster Monkey
You can't play hardball with an independent nation..
Tomrrows Headlines:
Korea declares all Microsoft IP, Software and Copywrites to be in the Korean Public Domain. All Microsoft Offices Nationalized and documents seized for "National Security"
After all it shows to customers that Windows (and support, etc.) can disappear anytime without (much) warning.
I think many will evaluate alternatives because of this move.
Pulling out is only 81% effective
Is that a threat or a promise?
PJ made a very good point over at Groklaw. Consider: If you are the South Korean government, and you have historical documents written in Word, Excel, etc., and you play by the rules (i.e. you honor Microsoft's copyright, you buy Windows licenses for all your systems, etc.), and all of a sudden you cannot buy a new copy of Windows legally, what do you do? Keep running the old copies and never upgrade from then on?
This is exactly the problem with proprietary file formats. I would say that Microsoft's statement is destined to show up in a large number of conversations about OpenDocument and why it's the right thing to do...
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
Because In Korea, young people are starting to use Linux + OpenOffice.org!
Scientists around the world went on alert Friday after photographs from a weather satellite showed the appearance of a gigantic and hitherto unknown coral reef in the South China Sea.
A scientist commented: "This is one of the greatest discoveries of all time, perhaps even the site of the fabled classical city of Atlantis. You can imagine our excitement - technical analysis of the reef showes that it is made up of millions upons millions of silver-coloured, platter-shaped objects perhaps deposited there by an alien civilization. Rudimentary textual analysis of inscriptions on the platters suggests an association between the phonemes ''Mi', 'Win', 'For', 'Sou', 'Kor' but as yet no one has been able to decipher their precise meaning. We think they might refer to an ancient ruler or despot who chose to be buried at sea with his treasure."
Las qué passoun
tournoun pas maï
Having said all that, what exactly would South Korea lose from such a threat being carried out, anyway?
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
If you thought Johnny Cochran could name his price after the OJ trail, that'll be nothing compared to the demand for South Korean anti-trust lawyers. I'd sponsor one to the States right now, if I could.
It's interesting to see that one of the major Internet portal companies has brought up this issue because most of Korean sites are built around Microsoft's Internet Explorer rather than other browsers which are more in agreement with Internet standards.
I hate to be the defender of the big, bad M$ monopoly here, but I find it laughable that S. Korea is investigating Mircosoft for its monopolistic practices when a serious investigation of anti-trust practices of domestic firms would be probably be a who's who list of South Korean industry.
By the way, this IS, at worst a negotiating tactic by M$- it would be pretty stupid to withdraw and fill the void left by the tiny legal Windows market by handing it to piracy outfits in South Korea and China.
Withdrawal doesn't work. Some little windows will get out and soon you will have lots of illegitimate windows running around.
They don't have to be illegitimate. Just compatible.
Microsoft later regretfully attributes the statement to a lowly-management executive who was ill-qualified to make such decisions....
Starcraft runs just fine under Linux.
Dear Mr Balmer, We at the European Commission are dismayed to see that despite many years of negotiation and our continuing discussions you are still treating other regions/customers better than the European Union. We insist that you treat the European Union in the same way as South Korea and withdraw Windows from sale here too. We cannot afford to give our Korean competitors an advantage like this in the world economy. Withdrawing Windows from sale would give an enourmous boost to software jobs inside Europe, especially in the fast-growing and SME-friendly open source arena. Yours sincerely, THe European Commission
- Paul
IBM and Novell and Red Hat should be in South Korea now en masse offering huge deals on hardware, software, and services. They could completley capture one of the most dynamic economies in the world for Linux.
Selling point one - if we take our marbles and go home - it doesn't matter! There are others who can support you on OSS.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
Korea declares all Microsoft IP, Software and Copywrites to be in the Korean Public Domain.
Diclaimer: IANAL, but I am a law student.
As much as that (semi-humorous) thought would warm my heart, South Korea is a member of the World Trade Organization, which requires signing the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights ("TRIPs"), which incorporates the Berne Convention by reference.
What does this mean? It means that South Korea is obligated to recognize foreign copyrights, and stripping that protection for (arguably valid) nationalist reasons would almost certainly be in violation of international law. I haven't had a chance to fully and formally study the documents in question, but I would be shocked if there would be no recourse by the WTO.
- Neil Wehneman
P.S. Berne is a major impediment to full and free reform of copyright on a national level, as it mandates signatory countries to grant at least a copyright term of life of the author plus fifty years.
My legal education, in nifty podcast format
If the withdraw happens, the people of South Korea will be able to honestly say that "I switched to Linux because Microsoft forced me to."
"Linux, we won't become a monopoly then pull the rug from under your feet (or the OS from under your apps)"
it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
Microsoft announces that they have invented Nuclear Weapons.
That's a good one. South Korea may be taking a convenient stand against foreign monopolies, but somehow all that antitrust fervor never seems to apply to domestic companies and chaebol.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
"I'm going to f***ing bury that country, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to f***ing kill South Korea."
Better is the enemy of good enough. - Russian proverb.
no body cares about the opinons of a bunch of bored insular fatbeards
Why would an absolute dictator surrender his systems to a blue or red screen of death? Why would he put up with the viri and other stuff?
In a battle between Kim and Gates, Kim would win because lawyer aren't bullet proof.
Besides, North Korea is friggin' broke. They can't afford Windows. They CAN afford Linux. (That would force them to open their society a bit. Eventualy, maybe the GPL can get some traction in there.)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
It's time for Microsoft to sh*t or get of the pot. Microsoft needs to just make their own hardware similar to Apple in lieu of leveraging the "industry" to make hardware in support of them. That way they can bundle all the stuff they want and have all the control-freak things they like in one package and thereby avoid all this anti-this and anti-that. And we, as consumers, can decide if we want that product or not.
You'll find a better article of it right here...here
The television will not be revolutionized.
Yes, but this is a SOUTH PARK reference, which gives OP instant geek cred, cause he can watch SOUTH PARK and spew forth a line from it. Don't you see?
I don't think so. Microsoft's not into that kind of hardware.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
I'm moving to South Korea.
01/20/09
"We reserve the right to deny service to anyone". This is exactly what's happening. MS doesn't _have_ to sell them software.
What is it with asian populations and comlete and total disregard for creative licensing? No doubt MS has monopolistic tendencies, but I am not surprised at all to hear S.Korea is first on their pull-out list. You can go into any street vendor in Seoul and see pirated software for 50 cents.
Doesn't Valve deserve more than 50 cents for giving someone 10 hours of Half-Life 2 gameplay?
A company like SCO is normal in a MS world.
It means that South Korea is obligated to recognize foreign copyrights, and stripping that protection for (arguably valid) nationalist reasons would almost certainly be in violation of international law.
The Berne Convention only requires a minimum copyright length and that countries treat foreign copyrights the same as they do their own. If Korean law allows or can be changed to allow the confiscation rights from abusive monopolies there is no conflict. For that matter, the Korean courts can just declare the intellectual property to be the fine MS must pay. In either case, Korea is unlikely to be reprimanded by the WTO since they are dealing with a criminal in the first place and an abuse monopoly that has already been found guilty in the US and EU court systems. I disagree that this would be a problem for them, but I'm no expert on international trade law.
Just to stir the pot....Couldn't this be considered terrism by the Korean government? It seems that threatening to cut off part of the national infrestructure should be considered terrorism. Do the terrorism laws, or copyright laws take presidence on an international level?
There is no such thing as international law. I think the recent US actions in Iraq and guantanamo has proved that once and for all. If you have the will and the guns to back them up with then you do whatever you want.
In this case I don't think that even Bush is willing to wage war in South Korea so they could do it.
evil is as evil does
How can we have the same for Canada?!
What we have here is a multi-billion dollar corporation using "playground" tactics in a high-stakes game of wills with one of the richest Southeast Asian countries in the world. To sum it all up Microsoft's attitude towards all of this is "pathetic". Pulling out of S. Korea would create "a shot heard around the world" that would have far reaching effects. It would set a precedent that other nations could easily follow. Pulling Windows off the shelves in S. Korea will not hurt S. Korea, it will make things difficult for a while, but it would not hurt that country in the slightest. It would set up an environment where alternatives to Microsoft products would have a firmer foothold; products like Linux and Apple's Macintosh offerings. If MS returned to S. Korea after a long duration it would be harder for them to reestablish the amount of market control they had before. In fact it literally be imposible for them regain their former market share in S. Korea if this happens. Like other posters here have said, MS is well within its right to sell or not to sell their product in S. Korea, but in order to do business in S. Korea they must obey the laws of S. Korea. Just because they are "Microsoft" does automaically give them a license to ignore the laws while everyone else has to follow them. What MS wants S. Korea to do is make an exception for them where their anti-trust laws are concerned so they can keep doing whatever they want to do. I can tell you now that it will not happen, no country in thw worl, no self-respecting country, will allow a corporation bully them into ignoring the dictates of the law. It absolutely will not happen, and S. Korea can't afford to let it happen. Basically its like this... MS leaving S. Korea = Biggest Mistake in History and/or S. Korea bowing to Microsoft = Worst Mistake in History
Michael "TheZorch" Haney
thezorch@gmail.com
http://thezorch.googlepages.com/home
Interesting the article under this one is 'Why people as switching to Linux'
-Pete
Don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out. Asia already has a high penetration of Linux, if Microsoft leaves....all the better for Linux.
- AMW
Gates threatened to pull Windows off the market in 2002: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,95904,00 .asp
To a whole new generation of Linux programmers and tinkerers right in Korea! And with their IT infrastructure so far ahead...
:)
Maybe it's not a good idea
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
gates knows this, all he talked about in his first book (the only one i've read, The Road Ahead) was upward and downward spirals in business basically saying if you weren't expanding you were declining and that stagnation was death.
How the fuck is this flamebait? WTF are the mods smoking?
You might make a case for offtopic but I rather thought the parent was making an interesting comparison. In any case it isn't flamebait by any stretch of the imagination.
Shame on you, mods.
Microsoft is completely dependent on the government to maintain its monopoly. That's what copyright is: a limited monopoly granted by the government.
The U.S. government isn't likely to repeal Microsoft's copyright, of course. But other countries might. And a government can do a lot more than just switch to Linux: It could seize all the company's assets in its territory, or release Windows code into the public domain, or hand all MS's copyrights over to a native software company.
South Korea is one of the world's most technologically-advanced countries, leading in stuff like 3G wireless and fiber-to-the-home. It's not a market that a company like Microsoft would want to abandon.
...or delay offering new versions in Korea.
So what? South Korea will have to wait for what? The release of Longhorn? It's not like they aren't already making everybody wait.
Wouldn't it be nice if we all wrote to Bill and told him that we are running pirate copies too? He might stop selling it over here!
Do not meddle in the affairs of geeks for they are subtle and quick to anger
I have to say I love it when Thomas Hobbes totally pwns Hugo Grotius.
Leviathan FTW!
-Styopa
MS also has the right to take careful aim and blow thier own foot off.
I really hope that it comes to that. Almost every nation on the face of the earth
will take note and resolve that their future will not be bound to the whim
of a US company run by a petulant child. It will take a while
but you may mark my word, almost every nation on earth (except perhaps the US)
will eventually get around to explaining things to Microsoft in a universal
language exactly who it is that runs their country.
It has already started to happen and everytime MS
pulls this mobster style "protection" scam it accelarates the process.
Coming from a couple of ACs, I'll take that as a compliment. Not going for the flamebait, though.
"You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles
I use to drive a taurus.
"They are a monopoly, and monopolies are regulated for JUST THIS REASON. Microsoft is demanding that legal investigations into their anticompetitive actions be halted, or they will cripple South Korea by refusing to sell them product. That is the CLASSIC REASON why monopolies are anti-free market!
NO. THEY DON'T GET TO DECIDE WHERE THERE PRODUCT IS SOLD. THEY ARE AN ABUSIVE MONOPOLY. They've lost the right. That's why we r-e-g-u-l-a-t-e them, even if Bush's government won't touch them because they hate monopoly regulations."
Free market means free trade. When a govt. imposes antitrust regualtions, it is a restriction on the free trade. Hence, a free market no longer exists. In a free market, Microsft has the right to offer their product at any price they choose, and consumers have the right to accept, reject, or bargain for a better price. When a govt. threatens physical force, it disrupts a free market. antitrust legislation is anti-free market.
Vote for Pedro
"Screw you guys... I'm going home."
Are you serious?
You obviously don't know how WTO works - the big company always win over the nation.
WTO is for the corporations, not the nations. South Korea wouldn't stand a chance.
So has China, but they still pirate it there....
It means that South Korea is obligated to recognize foreign copyrights, and stripping that protection for (arguably valid) nationalist reasons would almost certainly be in violation of international law.
In the other news, South Korean president announced that the nation must fight against the threat of terrorism and mmm.. next it was something about close connection between Microsoft and Al-Qaeda?
And wasn't that the acceptable exception to make any international law become a piece of paper you stick into detainee's ass?
Steve Ballmer, be prepared for a satellite-guided missile strike blowing your house or being captured by South Korean Central Intelligence Agency off your Redmond office. If you aren't already being interrogated in a dog-size cage while marines play their South Korean pop at 180dB and interrogators perform their sadistic experiments to you and anyone who happened to be around you at the moment of detention, hope you donated to Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch...
If macroshaft knows it's history, it would know that Korean don't take threats well; they will butt heads with you until they previle (evident by repeated bloody uprising during Japanese occupation.)
... how in the fuck does S. Korea get so damn lucky? What? Leaders with backbones?! What's that?!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Wow. Microsoft is copying Google. http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/05/technology/google_ cnet/
It puts the lotion on it's skin, or else it gets the hose again.
Microsoft Threatens To Withdraw Windows in S.Korea
If we ask nicely, do you think we can get them to threaten to withdraw Windows from the United States?
When firms become large enough to wield monopoly power, they become much larger threats to free-market economics than anti-trust regulation. There is NOTHING free-market about an industry dominated by a monopoly. Market constraints come from the monopoly rather than the gov't, but that does not mean they are not constraints.
Anti-trust regulations (if well administered) make markets slightly less free overall, but they remain MOSTLY free. This is an attempt to preserve as much freedom in the marketplace as possible.
MOSTLY free is better than NOT-AT-ALL free.
If you regard free-market as a binary condition, then a more accurate statement is that market freedom is inherently unstable, eventually requiring regulation to prevent descent into abusive monopolistic environments. As such, free markets would be a poor standard by which to judge an economic environment because it would describe only immaturity of the market. Gauging market freedom on a continuum is a much more useful way to consider its effects on the market participants.
Love him or Lump him (prolly the latter around here) the guy built an empire, and gets nothing but crap for it. Frankly, if someone can build an OS with the compatibility Win has and is as easy for my Grandma to use, do and stop crying about it.
I would love to see this actually happen. Too many people just want to hurt Bill, and use MS antitrust to do it, I would love to see him say "I've made my money, had my kicks, and created something amazing, if you all don't like it piss off" and close up shop. The world tech markets and economy would crumble....
Having woken up this morning to find that the Windows 2003 server which runs email, web and a few other things for my domain just fucked-up *again*, I'm not exactly thrilled with the boys from Redmond at this moment. Frankly, I'm tired of Microsoft's shitty-ass software and a host support documents that, most times, seem to be written by people who have no idea what they're talking about. Sure, Linux has its share of problems, but I have yet to see just one FUBARed file fuck-up an entire Linux server. Today, it looks like that's exactly what happened with my Windows 2003 box. Thanks Microsoft, for all the love.
As far as I'm concerned, Microsoft can go fuck themselves for the years of sub-par software and headaches they've given me. This mornings fiasco is just the latest in a long string of failures for Bill and company to get a god-dammed clue. No, I don't want DRM, no, I don't want my box rooted 5 minutes after I connect it to the Internet and I don't want any of the crap you guys seem so happy to shove down my throat. I just want an OS that works, reliably, without problem after problem after problem.
If I were in South Korea, I'd be celebrating now. No more Microsoft? Great! Now we can go get something useful done, instead of having to babysit a yet another sick Microsoft server. Freedom from Redmond? It's like blessing from on high.
There is no such thing as international law. I think the recent US actions in Iraq and guantanamo has proved that once and for all. If you have the will and the guns to back them up with then you do whatever you want.
In this case I don't think that even Bush is willing to wage war in South Korea so they could do it.
That might be the quickest way to get a united Korea though. "Samsung nukes Microsoft" would be an interesting headline too.
"And FWIW, it's not illegal to detain someone, like a terrorist operating against unarmed civilians, who by international law could be summarily executed upon capture."
Nope, there is no international law that authorizes summary executions. That's just some republitard wet dream.
"The Geneva Convention only applies to signatories who are also abiding by its rules."
There are universal human rights, no human may be tortured, no matter what, no matter where. By the way the US signed the geneva convention and it's torturing at least one US citizen and has shipped many prisoners to israel, lebanon, turkey, and syria to be tortured.
" Hijackings of civilian airliners and bombings of civilian trains carried out by operatives dressed in civilian clothing are not modes of warfare protected by the Geneva Convention"
Which of the prisoners tortured in Iraq flew airplanes into buildings again? Oh I get it, they all look alike to you right?
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How does a company "withdraw" from a country? Isn't it the retail outlets who decide what they sell and to whom? Couldn't someone in S. Korea simply order online overseas? That is probably what they do anyway...
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
Think what this action does for Massachusetts' case for the use of open standards in regards to public records. Microsoft just proved that Massachusetts is right to be concerned over its sovereignty.
Now if only the world would PLEASE connect the dots.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
And this is suposed to be a threat? I say: Take your OS, your computers, and your lousy programs. Don't let the door hit you in the but. Don't forget to leave a few master CD's b behind. Well now that that's done: Ok so it runs WINE isn't a big seller but a headline like: S.Korean's switch to MacOSX is good. And Such and such runs on OSX is a big seller.
"Lameness filter encountered, Post Aborted!"
"Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING."
Wrong, capitalizing words cannot "scream" off of a page. That's rediculous. You can't hear words, only see them.
Thus, those who have a problem with "hearing" capitalized words as "yelling" have a neuerodegenerative disease that causes them to hear "voices" in thier head. That's pretty scary.
Slashdot also should remove the word "lameness" because being Lame is a compliment to those who are not criminals. And since you attempt to justify the use of the word "hacker" as someone who doesn't steal but rather connects an Ipod to his forehead legally, then you can't say that Lameness is reserved only for people who break rules.
Idiots.
Do you work for the Microsoft Marketing Department? You've got all the marks, poor reasoning ability, abrasive attitude, arrogance toward the customer and common language.
Insulting your customers is bad business.
Demanding other countries change their laws to meet your whims is insane. It's not a matter of them just not selling Windoze in South Korea, it's a matter of them 'withdrawing' from the market. When you are talking about something you don't own but only have permission to use, withdrawal means a forfit of legal use. The is the full flexure of Microsoft's means. It's a stupid bluff, for no other reason than it may be called without much loss.
Now, add to the above the full PR effect. They are really out of their minds. Microsoft can just about kiss government sales outside the US goodbye after this one.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
24% increase in revenue. Wow. So much for all the anti MS-zealous predicting the downfall of microsoft. 3.11 billion dollar increase in sales. Whats the reason for this increase amidst the "supposed" rise of Linux use.
There are plenty of other OSs they can switch too.
If people want to run windows (for whatever reason) but can't buy it -- how many people think they won't simply pirate it then?
Now maybe some Korean companies (such as DVICO) will make Linux drivers for their products.
no text
you had me at #!
Finally.... S. Korea will be OPEN and free..... --END-- hahahaa.... LAUGH it's funny
Actually this is in an investor relations page. Bill Gates can go to jail if there is any worst case scenario they know of that they don't tell investors, and that happens.
Reports like this are often filled with doom and gloom about the future. These things rarely happen, but they could.
It's a bluff. Big bully tactics. Microsoft won't ignore a market completely. They will only threaten to do so. Why not, they have nothing to lose dishing out a few threats. If it doesn't work, they'll settle for what they can get. Now we get to see if the SK government has any character.
Right after this article, the next article is entitled, "Linux: why people switch to Linux." 'Nuff said.
Does TRIPs allow for Compulsory Licensing? Could South Korea simply collect licensing fees for Microsoft products and offer to forward them to Microsoft?
Well, if Microsoft pulls out of South Korea (which it won't), I'm sure those internet cafes will be really worried about keeping up their licenses.
The real question is what percentage of those internet cafe computers are legitimately licensed now.
But it runs on the Playstation probably is.. Its also a huge market for games, so this might make people write/port their games to non-Microsoft operation systems..
Except for those developers of niche or casual games who can afford the licensing cost for Windows (primarily a bunch of high-end PCs loaded with Windows and MS Visual Studio) but can't get certified by the console divisions of Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo, because the licensed publishers tend to prefer cash cows to risky niche titles (Katamari series notwithstanding). Or were you talking about replacing Wintel boxes in homes and cafes with Apple computers running Mac OS X Tiger Edition?
It would bring home to a lot of people why no one, and in particular governments, should allow themselves to be locked in. It's just what Linux and BSD (and ReactOS... eventually) need. The South Korean government is probably not even a little bit nervous about the threat. Microsoft cannot afford to carry it through. It would be the last drop that would ensure that governments everywhere migrated away from Windows, with people pointing fingers and saying see, see what happens when you cannot go to an alternative vendor for your OS... let RedHat or Novell try to pull a stunt like that. As much as I would like it to happen... it won't sigh.
"All copyrights held by Microsoft, past, present and future, are now to released to the public domain."
Such an action might, under the Berne Convention, give other countries just cause to reciprocally derecognize copyrights held by citizens of the Republic of Korea.
Leviathan ...
TRIGGER: 0x3efc3a0e
Process started
_
The Hacker's Guide To The Kernel: Don't panic()!
I wonder what percentage of the south korean economy is made up of those internet cafes. Switching OS's won't really be fun for them (if it comes to that.).
Actually most problems internet cafes have is quazi slick users playing around with the windows software and of course bugs in IE.
Internet Cafes are essentially now all about using Web interfaces. Thus, switching to Linux with the Redmond KDE skin makes a lot of sense.
May the Maths Be with you!
Just doesn't have quite the same ring.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
This will encourage game makers to shift to supporting a new desktop. It might be Apple, but I suspect that it will be Linux. If that happens, well.... MS may come to regret using its monopoly as a form of abuse.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
they all realize that they are being screwed by MS who is now wielding a very large club over their economy? I suspect that Japan and a few more will sue, but most will start down the path of Linux to play CYA.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
That would be a threat how, exactly?
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Ambassador Kosh Naranek, Babylon 5
T-220:12:42:12
The Hacker's Guide To The Kernel: Don't panic()!
Because that will just open up the door for someone else to import windows to S.Korea and support it instead.
It's a free market, microsoft's permission isn't required.
Couldn't agree more.
Some here suggest it will be a pain for some users in SK. And no doubt yes. But no pain, no gain right?
MS will never pull their trigger on this. But they've uttered their stupid line and now they've stirred a bunch of IT, teens, game players to move away from MS.
And we smeared them with fake menstrual blood, and - get this - we actually went so far as to scare them with dogs! The utter, inhumane horror of it all!
And then we took pictures of them, so they would be ashamed to go home.
And now we get to hear "THE US TORTURED PEOPLE!!! THEY'RE WORSE THAN HITLER. HE ONLY KILLED SIX MILLION EVIL JOOOOS! THE US IS SO EVIL!!! WAHHH FUCKING WAHHH, MY PUSSY HURTS!!!!"
Cry me a fucking river, you limp-wristed, overly-sheltered, cowardly candy ass.
You post is nothing more than a thinly-veiled anti-American rant fueled by your inane rage, goaded on by anencephalic DUmmies and KosKids (and remember, Kos went 0-fer-the-last election. HAHA!). Brainless twits like you actually want the US to fail in Iraq, for some insane reason. And you're downright dumb for wanting that.
And get this - I'll VOTE for any candidate who openly says that doing the above "torture" is OK to use on medeival fanatical Islamist "Religion of Peace" members who think murdering kindergarteners on their first day of school is an acceptable practice just because they're "infidels".
Hell, I'll even vote for someone who openly claims that we should take the remains of any suicide bomber or the live body of any funder or Imam or other supporters of suicide bombers and bury 'em alive with a bunch of pigs - on worldwide TV. And I mean that - those fuckers want to kill me and my family, I say we do unto them before they do unto us.
All you arrogant, stupid (and I mean that literally because anybody who doesn't understand that being against US success in Iraq means you're objectively in favor of the mullahs in Iran and the Baathists in Syria and terrorists in general and therefore can't be anything but stupid) multiculturalist progressives who think your "compassion" and "understanding" and "tolerance" make you better than "republitards" and take every chance you get to bash the US need to realize that you're actually rooting for a misognynistic culture that thinks women shouldn't drive or even leave the house, much less vote, a completely intolerant culture that buries homosexuals alive, a culture of death that (misogynistically, imagine that) promises the services of 72 virgins for all eternity to anyone who can kill a few 5-year-old "infidels".
But lucky for you, there's a helluva lot more people like me than there are of you in the good ole US of A. Heck, even California elected Arnie, and Hillary! herself won't even say anything against the US in Iraq - she's too smart for that. (Which certainly says a lot about those openly rooting for US failure, now doesn't it?)
And shut the fuck up with that "We support our troops, too" crap. You do not. And drop the "You can't question my patriotism" dodge - it's not there to begin with.
If it weren't for people like me you yellow cowards too afraid to risk anything - heck, afraid of life itself - would already be getting measured for dhimmitude.
So fuck you and all the idiots who "think" like you.
My story - I know noone who uses Linux, and no place I use computers uses Linux. Nevertheless, hating M$, I have had a long desire to try it out.
Built a computer from parts, but was apprehensive to try Linux, had only dial up (NetZero for free) and so kept putting it off. Had a fire which destroyed the computer. A year or so later, bought more parts and built a new computer. Again with the apprehension, waited a year or two (yeah, I was stupid).
One day, I decided what the hell, used an Ubuntu disk I had gotten in the interim, and booted the computer. It was now running Ubuntu. Since it could also install, I tried that and a half hour later had it installed. It comes with Open Office, so there was a native Word like word processing program.
That's how easy it was - 1/2 hour of very little work, and I had a fully functioning computer with Linux, word processors, etc., the software all for free.
That computer is now the favorite for my whole family, from the kids to the adults.
Seems to me there is a very cost-effective solution to M$ - all people have to do is try it out.
The only reason I see to stay with M$ is if it is necessary for some reason - business depends on software that only runs on M$, etc. For the rest of us (the majority), I should say that M$'s dominion of the market will remain only so long as we are too lazy to try out alternatives.
Oh, I'm sure it's just an oversight in a draft regulatory filing created by a newly hired employee who did not understand the company's legal obligations under the 2002 antitrust settlement.
It might not be a threat. It could be a promise...
well i know for a fact that s korea is huge pc gaming market. this might mean that game developers will have to develop for mac or linux more, which would make my switch that much sweeter.
We don't inherit the earth from our parents. We borrow it fom our children.
This must be the best idea for encouraging Windows piracy I've ever heard. All the software Microsoft sells is already available on the street for pennies in South Korea, those bootleg vendors will do even better if they don't have competition from legit software vendors.
If Microsoft does indeed pull out of S. Korea that could possibly be a huge boon to the piracy business that I'm sure is already thriving there. I have no love at all for M$ however this may again be Balmer et all shooting themselves in the foot. Would I hate to see them (MS) take a huge hit to their bottom line? Of course I would. However what modicum of respect that I might have had for them will totally disappear if they take it in the shorts because they choose to, yet again act more like arrogant, socially retarded 10 years olds. Rather than semi reasonable adults that are responsible for millions of jobs and billions of dollars in investor money.
What's that, slashdot karma points??? HA! I got your karma points right here!!
Don't blame the line workers for bad engineering and even worse management decsions, even if rush limbaugh tells you to. They assemble the parts they get handed in the manner specified. THAT'S IT. They have zero say in the matter. If management wants to make crap and not compete, it's not the rank and files fault. If your IT boss/management tells you to code crap, not test, ship crap by such and such a date, well???? You follow orders, cash check, that's how it works... when they turn around and blame the coders, is it really their fault if they haven't been given the time and resources to code something good? Same with being a manufacturing drone, a drone is a drone, you follow orders.
With that said, I think the unions are missing the boat for a long time in not gong on strike to demand higher quality engineering. They go on strike for any other issues, there's no law per se saying they couldn't negotiate that as well. Radical idea, but it's possible. Go on strike, demand the same pay and benefits, ask for nothing new, no difference, but demand management cut their pay and design better products. That would be a HOOT! I know way way back when I was in the UAW I tried to push this idea, but this was during the horsepower wars and throw away cars era, no one cared about mileage or reliability, just horsepower. meh, old news.. Anyway, the labor costs of assembly are *the same*, whether it's crap part A or better part B going into crap designed car A or nice piece of work B.
US tech can be very very good, look at all the various professional motorsports, there's some outstanding design and engineering there. Racing is sexy and pays well for the winners, hence, they get very good engineers and mechanics. Innovation just takes a couple of decades to filter back down to Detroit big three management, I mean, look how long they have insisted on using pushrod engines. Look how long it took them to adopt multiple valve per cylinder heads. and etc. That's 100% pure MANAGEMENT fault.
And they would also have to pay their engineers MORE than what a first year rookie car lot salesman makes if they want to keep good people and make better cars. The auto industry in the US is a good parallel of the business climate in general, manage, study, re arrange the furniture,powerpoint, business junkets, power lunches, sell, market. Engineering and keeping quality help is way way WAY down the list of what is important to them, because of "this quarters profits" mentality. The stock market is *killing* business, if that makes some sense. It's nutz and getting worse. Ford is sort of starting to "get it", they have a pretty decent forward looking set of design goals and are embracing hybrids, etc NOW, finally. Took them way too long, but we'll see what happens. GM and daimler chrysler mercedes whatever they are called now, who knows. maybe.... I am more pessimistic on them long range. GM hasn't really made any money on cars in years I think, they make money on financing, paper pushing.
good riddance
Let's see them go through with this.
It will lead to two things:
1. Increase in FOSS adoption
2. Increase in piracy by people who still need/think they need windows. And once someone pirates windows it's just a small step to pirate MS Office. Net result: zero cash flow going back to Microsoft.
If you were an evil megalomaniacal convicted monopolist would you allow that to happen?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Linux is already right on the edge of being fit for everyday desktop use :D
It's already there if you want to give up being able to run *every* game perfectly - Transgaming is good, but its not 100% there yet.
I was running Linux exclusively (no dual boot) for 6 months (have been dual booting, etc for 9 years) - the only reasons I have Windows installed right now are Quake 4 (the linux installer is buggy at the moment and I couldn't get it to work on ubuntu) and Eve Online (which works on Linux, just very slow load times).
For regular content creation, etc - I already find it more productive than Windows.
For use in a corporate environment with AD it will require some work to migrate at the moment, but all it needs is somebody to create an easy to set up LDAP/Kerberos authentication package to replace AD with (it's already possible I believe, just not easy) and the reasons not to shift are becoming fairly few.
Web applications are where things are going - and in that area Linux is streets ahead. The things Linux is currently poor at (desktop apps, etc) are very quickly becoming either commodities, or irrelevant...
smash.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
So is blizzard gonna port starcraft to linux now?
.... Governments of other countries will be so impressed that they will immediately make people switch to open source alternatives. Can you imagine a country leaving the fate of their economy and their national defense to the whim of Ballmer? They already have, but they don't realize it. This will make them realize it and will scare the sh*t out of them.
- Anonycous Moward
It might be necessary to withdraw Windows from the Korean market or delay offering new versions in Korea.' God leave it to Microsoft to be whiney little bitches about not getting their way. These are the kind of tactics that mke me never another Microsoft product ever.
Science is but a perversion of itself unless it has as its ultimate goal the betterment of humanity. -Nikola Telsa
M$ will require the North Korean Army to adopt Windows for Weapons Systems (the next release of Windows for Warships) and South Korean hackers will be able to stop them in their tracks...
More power to Microsoft! Remove Windows from Korea and let them suffer. Damn tired of Microsoft bashing. The nix and communistic open source crowd wouldn't even be here if it weren't for Microsoft.
Fata viam invenient.
To my fellow Korean brother and sisters -- written from a fellow ethnic Korean across the ocean who also enjoys Starcraft (must be in the genes or maybe there is something embedded in Korean culture that lights up with Starcraft... maybe how the Goliath looks like Taekwon V) -- the words on this thread is true: Starcraft plays equally well on the Mac.
;)
It would be amusing to see an entire nation go Apple. This may be quite possible in Korea. iCountry? iGu? Make Jobs happy. Samsung and LG already do stuff with Apple.
Dehanminguk MacSay
Charles Jo
A large number of SK (professional) gamers still play old multiplayer games like WarCraft and StarCraft which already run well under Wine or Cedega, so that won't be the problem. Their problem will be with newer MMORPG games like Ragnarok, R.O.S.E. Online and Mu Online. These games have quite a following not only in SK but in other South-east Asian countries as well. This is the reason I still have Windows on on partition. I have been waiting for a native Linux port of these games for a long time but it seems that the developers have neither the resources or the motivation to make the port. AFAIK, these games use SDK's that are Windows-only and their servers depend on MSSQL to run.
However, with MS pulling their off their shit from SK shelves, this should force these game developers to go cross-platform eventually. So, here's to hoping that MS get's the slap-in-the-face ruling and that they do indeed remove their entire product line from SK.
www.transgaming.org aka a commercialized version of wine that has HUGE number of windows games.
why pirate anything you do not have to?
Why woudld they do that. If they have a copy of windows, a withdrawal from the market by MS isn't going to force them to throw out their existing copies. At most it would probably delay them from getting versions of the next MS Operating System, which wouldn't be immediately needed to play games and which would probably want to go through the post-release public testing MS is famous for anyhow.
The hell if America should be protected under the WTO. They've repeatedly violated ruling against them...
Or South Korea could agree with Bush, which means that as long as they utter "national security" somewhere in the proclamation, the South Korean president has full legal authority to throw out any international law/treaty.
Microsoft Threatens to Stimulate Bootleg Windows Market in South Korea.
... that Microsoft is really stupid enough to do this? :-) towards OSS?
Push the country with the most degrees per capita (I think I heard that somewhere once, that's close enought to being a fact for the 'net
yeah... keep dreaming.
Microsoft stops using YOU!
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This can only be good for free software:
:-(
If the SK FTC gives in, they have demonstrated the power Microsoft wields by having a virtual monopoly. And politicians everywhere understand power, and will try to regain it. They would prefer software they control, but that is too expensive to develop. However, software nobody controls, that is free software, is a viable alternative.
If Microsoft gives in, presumably competititors in SK will benefit, including free software.
If neither part gives in, competititors in SK will benefit, including free software.
I guess some kind of compromise will be found which share the power between SK politicians and Microsoft, and keep the public out