More accurately, it's: Don't be surprised if the armed thug you're doing business with holds you at gunpoint and robs you, or gets raided by the feds while you're there (getting you arrested at the same time).
Well, I did just pop my phone into the car dock this afternoon and decide I wanted to record my drive... then remember that "oops, I can't do that anymore". I guess maybe it's more of an issue for me than I realized. I'll look for an update, thanks for the heads up.
No, you just missed my point. Cheap crap Android phones are possible where cheap crap (versus expensive crap, IMO, but my wife loves hers) iPhones are not possible, because Android is open and iOS is locked down. I hope Apple's enjoying their excessinv profit margins on the iPhone now, because they're losing market share to Android pretty fast right now.
It doesn't matter if you make $100 on a phone and I only make $1, if I end up selling 100 times as many as you do, our prifit is the same. This is why market share matters, even when iTards (no, I'm not grouping all iDevice users under that umbrella, only the ones who ignorantly refuse to acknowledge the importance or marketshare) insist that profit is king.
Yup, CM10, not an official build, tho. Been on it for 3 weeks, so I need to look for an update now. I know the video camera on the international version of the One X has been working for a while, but the NA version (dual core CPU) was still MIA 2 weeks ago when I checked. Like I said, tho, no big loss, if I want to record video, I pull out my Atrix (which I keep handy for the Lapdock), my wife's iPhone, one of several P&S that can do 1080p, or my DSLR.
Which HTC phone? My One X is running a beta JellyBean (shipped with ICS) and the only thing that doesn't work on it is the video camera. Still photos work beatuifully, as does everything else. Small price to pay on a phone with less than 10GB available for user storage and no sd slot; I would never use that for video anyway.
And that's not MHL. MHL *DOES* support simultaneous digital audio/video and data, but the protocol it uses is not USB; when using a micro-USB port for MHL, the port is either in USB mode or MHL mode. The iPhone does not support MHL, which is what I was trying to point out.
Can your connector handle simultaneous hi-def video and data?
If you put MHL signals on a bigger, proprietary connector, you're dumb, because you could just add enough pins to do HDMI in the first place. Then you wouldn't need active MHL->HDMI bridge silicon on the other end.
Hmm... Well, there's the issue of trademark infringement (PDF WARNING) if you use HDMI over a non-approved port (and call it HDMI anywhere on the product or in the documentation).
Say what you want about MicroUSB, but I have a self-made charging dock that has supported my last 3 phones by just the micro-USB connector that sticks out of it. I've never broken a phone or had to replace the cable (though I've had to replace the cradle itself whenever I've gotten a new phone). My last 2 phones have also had car docks, to which the phone attached only by the micro-USB port. Both the previous and current docks were situated such that the port was on top, holding the full weight of the phone; I've not once had the phone fall out of the dock, nor have I broken a connector, and I drive on some bumpy roads.
Your AppleTV argument is laughable, at best, but I'll give you credit for coming up with something better than the "dock connector's analog connections allow for cheaper accessories" that I've already debunked a few times here (see my comment history, it's not hard to find). If I'm at home and, indeed, am trying to pipe A/V to my AppleTV-connected (using a cable, mind you) TV, then yes, wireless is great, until every one of my neighbors has a wireless router blasting away at full-tilt and I can't get shit for transfer speed. But then, let's assume I'm at a friend's house, or trying to present something at my office, where AppleTV may not be an option. Solution?
Personally, I prefer separate (but physically adjacent) USB and HDMI ports. I'm waiting for a standard configuration of that, with a specific orientation and distance between the ports, which would allow for a single cable with both connectors on each end. It would also provide the ability to use one or the other, over a standard connection. The connectors have proven themselves sturdy enough if you're not doing stupid things with them and they're damn ubiquitous. You also have the advantage of a trie HDMI connection; as for wireless A/V, there's DLNA, which is supported by PS3, a lot of blu-ray players, most networked media players, a growing number of TVs, and a nontrivial number of Android devices, and it works damn well in my experience.
The 5 pin MHL specification *works* over a micro-USB connector, but it does not, in any way use USB "technology". The 11 pin specification is as you state, though USB is not technically part of the specification, nor must it be limited to USB 2.0.
There is nothing foolish about supporting a developing, and already wideliy implemented, standard.
Unfortunately, the original article is gone (though I did read it when it was first published). http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=199763 The dock connector costs $4 to license. I do know this; lots of people know this.
USB? If your a USB-IF member, free to use; otherwise, it's $2000 every 2 years for a vendor ID, with no per-unit costs. If you're producing more than 500 units, USB is cheaper; and that's assuming the connectors themselves cost the same. Here's a hint: the dock connector itself costs more than a USB port.
If these guys can sell this thing, shipped from Hong Kong, for $2.80 per unit ($2.02 in quantities of 10 or more), with a USB controller, DAC/ADC, USB port, 2 3.5mm jacks, and a case, how much do you think the USB interface and DAC/ADC added to the cost? Pennies, my friend, pennies. About the price of the resistors and capacitors used to control devices via the dock connector, actually.
As for your last point, if I give a damn about sound quality, I care less about duplicating hardware; I want that signal transmitted digitally and decoded as close to the amplifier as possible. Maybe I'm putting a higher quality DAC in my accessory than Apple put in my iPod? Or maybe it truly is a cheap accessory with a crappy DAC; but, then, how's the quality of an analog signal over a cheap connector? Do you see my point yet?
I'm oh so sorry, that reply was a bit brash. Here's a controller with a DAC/ADC, on a board, with a USB port, 2 3.5mm jacks, and a case, for $2.80 (single unit pricing).
As I had crammed down my throat (when I wasn't even making the claim), allow me to point out that MHL is not analog. That said, it costs about as much to implement MHL as it costs to implement and license Apple's dock connector, so all these cries of "the dock connector's analog pins allow for cheap accessories" are bunk, either way.
Apple has only within the last year provided sync'ing capability and software updates over wifi. Previous to that users had to use their charging cord to transmit data as well.
... over USB. Which means a USB port would work fine for this.
$3-4 for the USB controller and supporting components, $4-8 per device to license the 30-pin connector. Yes, I do think USB would be cheaper; at worst, it would cost the same.
The USB interface can be implemented for something like $3-4, versus the $4-8 per device paid to Apple to license their 30 pin connector. The cheap device would either be cheaper, more profitable, or some combination of the two, with USB.
As someone who's used a large number of the devices out there and who uses OSX 40+hr/wk alongside Windows and Linux, carries an Android phone and borrows his wife's iPad frequently, all I can say to your post is "LOL".
So you type with one hand while keeping the other on the mouse at all times?
If so, you could type at least twice as fast if you used both hands.
If not, you could type at least twice as fast if you kept your damn hands on the keyboard, where they belong.
Or maybe you use the arrow keys? Okay...
str(suggestions pop up, i pause to look at the list)[down][down][down][down][down][down][tab]
str_split(
Both of those give me the same result in Coda, but the first one, though the same number of keystrokes, actually takes longer because I have to scan the list to determine that the keyword I want appears in it, then press the down arrow until it's highlighted, then move over to the tab key. Yes, what you propose is possible; no, it's not workable. At 40+hr/wk for pay, 20+hr/wk for fun, I spend more time coding in a week than you've spent doing it in your lifetime if you don't get why that's the case.
Slashdot Mirror
Power-point
More accurately, it's: Don't be surprised if the armed thug you're doing business with holds you at gunpoint and robs you, or gets raided by the feds while you're there (getting you arrested at the same time).
Well, I did just pop my phone into the car dock this afternoon and decide I wanted to record my drive... then remember that "oops, I can't do that anymore". I guess maybe it's more of an issue for me than I realized. I'll look for an update, thanks for the heads up.
No, you just missed my point. Cheap crap Android phones are possible where cheap crap (versus expensive crap, IMO, but my wife loves hers) iPhones are not possible, because Android is open and iOS is locked down. I hope Apple's enjoying their excessinv profit margins on the iPhone now, because they're losing market share to Android pretty fast right now.
It doesn't matter if you make $100 on a phone and I only make $1, if I end up selling 100 times as many as you do, our prifit is the same. This is why market share matters, even when iTards (no, I'm not grouping all iDevice users under that umbrella, only the ones who ignorantly refuse to acknowledge the importance or marketshare) insist that profit is king.
Yup, CM10, not an official build, tho. Been on it for 3 weeks, so I need to look for an update now. I know the video camera on the international version of the One X has been working for a while, but the NA version (dual core CPU) was still MIA 2 weeks ago when I checked. Like I said, tho, no big loss, if I want to record video, I pull out my Atrix (which I keep handy for the Lapdock), my wife's iPhone, one of several P&S that can do 1080p, or my DSLR.
The reason that Android phone market share surpassed iPhone market share is not because it's open. It's because lots of people buy cheap crap.[..]
...which is only available because Android is open.
Which HTC phone? My One X is running a beta JellyBean (shipped with ICS) and the only thing that doesn't work on it is the video camera. Still photos work beatuifully, as does everything else. Small price to pay on a phone with less than 10GB available for user storage and no sd slot; I would never use that for video anyway.
7 month years? WOW! I'm NEARLY 60, now!!!
And that's not MHL. MHL *DOES* support simultaneous digital audio/video and data, but the protocol it uses is not USB; when using a micro-USB port for MHL, the port is either in USB mode or MHL mode. The iPhone does not support MHL, which is what I was trying to point out.
Can your connector handle simultaneous hi-def video and data?
Hint: I already know the answer.
If you put MHL signals on a bigger, proprietary connector, you're dumb, because you could just add enough pins to do HDMI in the first place. Then you wouldn't need active MHL->HDMI bridge silicon on the other end.
Hmm... Well, there's the issue of trademark infringement (PDF WARNING) if you use HDMI over a non-approved port (and call it HDMI anywhere on the product or in the documentation).
Say what you want about MicroUSB, but I have a self-made charging dock that has supported my last 3 phones by just the micro-USB connector that sticks out of it. I've never broken a phone or had to replace the cable (though I've had to replace the cradle itself whenever I've gotten a new phone). My last 2 phones have also had car docks, to which the phone attached only by the micro-USB port. Both the previous and current docks were situated such that the port was on top, holding the full weight of the phone; I've not once had the phone fall out of the dock, nor have I broken a connector, and I drive on some bumpy roads.
Your AppleTV argument is laughable, at best, but I'll give you credit for coming up with something better than the "dock connector's analog connections allow for cheaper accessories" that I've already debunked a few times here (see my comment history, it's not hard to find). If I'm at home and, indeed, am trying to pipe A/V to my AppleTV-connected (using a cable, mind you) TV, then yes, wireless is great, until every one of my neighbors has a wireless router blasting away at full-tilt and I can't get shit for transfer speed. But then, let's assume I'm at a friend's house, or trying to present something at my office, where AppleTV may not be an option. Solution?
Personally, I prefer separate (but physically adjacent) USB and HDMI ports. I'm waiting for a standard configuration of that, with a specific orientation and distance between the ports, which would allow for a single cable with both connectors on each end. It would also provide the ability to use one or the other, over a standard connection. The connectors have proven themselves sturdy enough if you're not doing stupid things with them and they're damn ubiquitous. You also have the advantage of a trie HDMI connection; as for wireless A/V, there's DLNA, which is supported by PS3, a lot of blu-ray players, most networked media players, a growing number of TVs, and a nontrivial number of Android devices, and it works damn well in my experience.
The 5 pin MHL specification *works* over a micro-USB connector, but it does not, in any way use USB "technology". The 11 pin specification is as you state, though USB is not technically part of the specification, nor must it be limited to USB 2.0.
There is nothing foolish about supporting a developing, and already wideliy implemented, standard.
Uhmm... http://www.mhlconsortium.org/
Link me to any text on that site that even so much as implies that MHL is based on USB. Please.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-Definition_Link
You might want to, you know, know WTF you're talking about before you talk down to me.
Troll? I genuinely enjoy EF's posts and was giving the man some well-due props.
Unfortunately, the original article is gone (though I did read it when it was first published). http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=199763 The dock connector costs $4 to license. I do know this; lots of people know this.
USB? If your a USB-IF member, free to use; otherwise, it's $2000 every 2 years for a vendor ID, with no per-unit costs. If you're producing more than 500 units, USB is cheaper; and that's assuming the connectors themselves cost the same. Here's a hint: the dock connector itself costs more than a USB port.
Take a look at this: http://dx.com/p/5-1-channel-usb-sound-card-adapter-black-59039?item=2
If these guys can sell this thing, shipped from Hong Kong, for $2.80 per unit ($2.02 in quantities of 10 or more), with a USB controller, DAC/ADC, USB port, 2 3.5mm jacks, and a case, how much do you think the USB interface and DAC/ADC added to the cost? Pennies, my friend, pennies. About the price of the resistors and capacitors used to control devices via the dock connector, actually.
As for your last point, if I give a damn about sound quality, I care less about duplicating hardware; I want that signal transmitted digitally and decoded as close to the amplifier as possible. Maybe I'm putting a higher quality DAC in my accessory than Apple put in my iPod? Or maybe it truly is a cheap accessory with a crappy DAC; but, then, how's the quality of an analog signal over a cheap connector? Do you see my point yet?
I'm oh so sorry, that reply was a bit brash. Here's a controller with a DAC/ADC, on a board, with a USB port, 2 3.5mm jacks, and a case, for $2.80 (single unit pricing).
http://dx.com/p/5-1-channel-usb-sound-card-adapter-black-59039?item=2
Are you telling me they paid $4.92 for the USB controller in that?
and, of course, that's the only one on the market... grow up.
So, then, why not the 11 pin MHL connector that's newly emerging?
As I had crammed down my throat (when I wasn't even making the claim), allow me to point out that MHL is not analog. That said, it costs about as much to implement MHL as it costs to implement and license Apple's dock connector, so all these cries of "the dock connector's analog pins allow for cheap accessories" are bunk, either way.
Apple has only within the last year provided sync'ing capability and software updates over wifi. Previous to that users had to use their charging cord to transmit data as well.
... over USB. Which means a USB port would work fine for this.
$3-4 for the USB controller and supporting components, $4-8 per device to license the 30-pin connector. Yes, I do think USB would be cheaper; at worst, it would cost the same.
The USB interface can be implemented for something like $3-4, versus the $4-8 per device paid to Apple to license their 30 pin connector. The cheap device would either be cheaper, more profitable, or some combination of the two, with USB.
And it sucks.
You can't (for instance) use MHL at the same time as USB on the go (USB host mode). Or at the same time as USB AT ALL, as far as I know.
And you can on the iPhone?
no homo, i love you, man... glad you're back
As someone who's used a large number of the devices out there and who uses OSX 40+hr/wk alongside Windows and Linux, carries an Android phone and borrows his wife's iPad frequently, all I can say to your post is "LOL".
So you type with one hand while keeping the other on the mouse at all times?
If so, you could type at least twice as fast if you used both hands.
If not, you could type at least twice as fast if you kept your damn hands on the keyboard, where they belong.
Or maybe you use the arrow keys? Okay...
str(suggestions pop up, i pause to look at the list)[down][down][down][down][down][down][tab]
str_split(
Both of those give me the same result in Coda, but the first one, though the same number of keystrokes, actually takes longer because I have to scan the list to determine that the keyword I want appears in it, then press the down arrow until it's highlighted, then move over to the tab key. Yes, what you propose is possible; no, it's not workable. At 40+hr/wk for pay, 20+hr/wk for fun, I spend more time coding in a week than you've spent doing it in your lifetime if you don't get why that's the case.