Even ignoring the bit where Apple can veto your app with no recourse, the development platform costs a minimum of $1,500 or so, as you have to buy their hardware to use it.
You realize you need a computer with Windows to do Windows development too, and that isn't free either. You even need a computer with Linux to do Linux development... and while linux is at least free the PC still isn't. I don't hear you moaning about the hundreds of dollars you need to spend on your linux or G1 development platform.
Also, FYI, assuming you already have a monitor, etc, a mac mini is only $600, and is more than enough to do iphone development on.
Really. Every game you've ever pirated wasn't available in your region? Conceivable. Unlikely. And if you think you represent the majority your insane.
but Nintendo doesn't want to sell the games for any of several reasons.
Haha. Doesn't want. Cute. Earthbound isn't coming to N.A. because it's chock full of recognizable music... The Who, Chuck Berry, The Champs, The Doors, and several Beatles references (and music samples).
There are two main reasons games don't come to different regions: The first is localization costs (translation, ratings, etc) The second is licensing rights (to characters, to music, to logos, to whatever...)
The first is just a matter of money, and if projected sales are high enough, they'll invest. The second also requires money, but in many cases is simply irreconcilable. Earthbound, falls into the 2nd category.
What is the alternative to piracy in this case?
Since you asked, the answer is: Import. Yes it costs 'even more', and yes you still have to mod your console to play imported titles (or buy a 2nd one) but you don't need to pirate the games.
Re:This too was foreseen
on
Designer Babies
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· Score: 4, Funny
I don't know, it sounds like a good idea to me. We can start with simple things like eye and hair color, and hopefully move on to eliminating the genetics that cause obesity, stupidity, and depression.
Of course stupid obese depressed people are more susceptible to advertising and consumption in general... so when google buys out the fertility clinics, that will be the default selection... and the question to couples seeking fertility help is... well... do you want a baby or not?
We offer you a child with the eye and hair color of your choice at no charge... of course you'll have to accept that he'll buy everything in sight. Your IVF treatment was paid for by advertisers after all... no we don't offer a paid option without the ads.
If you don't like that, talk to Apple... they'll hook you up with one of their models -- of course they only have exactly 3 models, they'll engrave your name on it though; but that's the extent of personalization, they cost a premium, and this year its glossy silver hair on all of them. If you don't like it, tough...
That's feasible without Gears or HTML5, but it's not what the XMLHttpRequest object does.
The XMLHttoRequest object doesn't deliver multi-threading, even if it is itself multithreaded.
Say I want to calculate pi to a million decimal places in a thread and tally up the sum of those digits, all locally, without contacting a remote server to do the work. I want another thread to keep a running monitor on the current progress of the first thread (ie how many digits calculated so far). I want still another thread to generate a 'visualization' akin to what your mp3 player does using the 'most recent digit calculated' in the first thread as its seed. (but without synchronization, so if thread 3 misses values that's fine... thread 1 doesn't need to wait on each digit for thread 3.
And some AJAX in a browser using XMLHttpRequest can do this? I admit I'm not a javascript browser/html5/ajax ninja... but this seems seriously out bounds of what you can do without resorting to win3.1 style single threaded cooperative multitasking techniques.
GMail is a competitive software application.
Its a software service.
I'd have virtually no hostility at all towards a gmail application I could install on my own servers.
Relationships are about trust. You can't both voluntarily use Google's services and not trust them. Complaining that you don't trust them doesn't change your implicit trust of them.
Right. I don't trust Microsoft with my data, but I trust my data in their software on my hardware. I could extend the same trust to google, but with them its either you trust them with your data, or you don't have relationship with them at all.
Actually CS2 is probably the 'best' of the apps on the list. Adobe's official statement on CS2 is "not supported, you may run into problems, there will be no updates to resolve them". Every other app on the list is outright 'not compatible'.
That said... reading this...(and dozens of other threads like it...) would lead me to beleive that CS2 on leopard is a bit flakey.
I just took it to mean he wants it to work will all his hardware or he won't install it.
Hardware, software... Apple leaves both behind at a whim.
Mac did break backward compatibility, but with good reason.
Apple breaks backward compatibility with each iteration. Some iterations much more drastically than others. It wasn't just a one time thing.
And saying 'but with good reason' doesn't make peoples stuff work again.
And if its a good enough excuse for Apple than Vista can use it too. Vista is better than previous versions (assuming suitable hardware). The security improvements are real, not just theatre, and represent a huge 'break' from previous Windows iterations. It is responsible for most of the compatibility issues -- and in my opinion it is just as 'forgivable' as apple's architecture switches. Microsoft HAD to make these changes to make the OS more secure; this pain was a long time coming and I'm glad it finally happened.
They made their OS run better and the upgraded applications allowed the same functions but with new technology.
And they required you to pay for those upgraded applications. iLife to iLife08 isn't a free upgrade. Apple Remote desktop 2 to 3 isn't a free upgrade. Final Cut Pro 5 to 6 isn't a free upgrade... and if you had the old version they didn't work with leopard.
But hey, if I'm ok with paying to run upgraded applications that allow the same functionality but with new technology, then why are people pissing and moaning that Office 2k/XP isn't 100% vista compatible... they can just just upgrade.
At least, from a business point of view.
These are the same businesses running Windows 2000 servers? Who screamed blue murder when XP came out? And managed to scream even louder when Vista came out? The only reason you don't hear businesses screaming when Apple releases an update is that not many businesses rely on them. If Apple gets significant marketshare, the volume of businesses screaming when they release new OS updates will rise accordingly.
a) answered the question b) put interesting facts in c) put relevant link in d) entertain people in the process
Hell, you deserve to be modded up.
This post meets a & d, but misses b and c so should still do ok. But overuse this particular d and it will cease to entertain which just leaves a, and there is no shortage of a's, which means this template, if it remains unfilled will start out funny, but as the funny wears off your moderation will trend towards redundant.;)
Ever hear of AJAX? As in "Asynchronous Javascript and XML"? AJAX allows the requests to the network to be threaded in the background, thus keeping the app snappy.
Yes I've heard of it, and no; cooperative multi-tasking techniques a la windows 3.1 is not multi-threading. It gets you something that's "like multi-threaded" but with all the instability and flakiness inherent in cooperative multitasking.
As someone already pointed out, Google does this. Full service with your domain, SSL handling, a proper service contract and everything.
And I acknowledged that message.
(Actually, you can use SSL on Google already. Just go to https://gmail.google.com/ instead of the usual http.)
That's pretty pointless. Why would I really want the peace of mind that that only google gets to data mine my messages?:)
As for the laundry list of features that you partially responded to; I don't really care if any of them are in gmail or not. None of them are email features.
I think its the wrong direction. I don't want to cram thousands of features into one ginormous app to take advantage of its unified search. That's just stupid. What I want is the opposite of that... multiple separate applications exposing their data to the OS.
ie... what Apple's spotlight, or Microsoft Windows Desktop Search do. Where you have multiple applications expose their data to the OS search engine via modules or plugins. Spotlight for example has many such plugins...
I'd be far more interested in exposing my gmail index to my desktop OS search, than cramming an mp3 player into gmail so it can index my playsists and id3 tags.
And I'd rather connect directly to my desktop remotely rather than some 3rd party data mining / advertising conglomerate web service to access my data. Then I get access to all my applications, all my data, not just what google supports, and without their 3rd party interference which is completely unnecessary.
I really can't imagine what they're thinking. If it isn't 99.99% compatible, it isn't getting on my machine. Whatever machine that might be.
oh? 99.99% or you don't install it?
I keep XP in a sandbox on my Mac and there it will stay
On your mac you say?
I'm curious, what did you do in 2001 when OSX was released? Did Apple give you 99.99% backwards compatibility? Hell no, not even close. Classic was decent, but people had to give up a LOT of stuff.
And what did you do in 2005 when Apple up and switched to intel? Did Apple give you 99.99% backwards compatibility to all your PPC and 68k stuff? Sure there was rosetta, and like classic, it was decent, but its not 99.99%. Not even close.
Criticising Vista and saying you'll only upgrade if the upgrade is 99.99% backwards compatible and then saying you use a Mac undermines everything you've said. Vista is WAY more backwards compatible than Apple even tries for.
Hell just from OS X 10.5 from 10.4: Absoft Pro Fortran compiler - needs up update v10, previous versions - not compatible Adept Music Notation 5.2.5 - not compatible Adobe Acrobat 8 Professional - 8 - needs compatibility update, previous versions not compatible Adobe Premier Pro CS3 - needs compatibility update (previous versions not compatible Adobe After effects CS3, compatible updates required (previous versions not compatible AdobePhotoshop Elements 4 and under not compatible Adobe CS2 - not supported, not compatible Adobe Photoshop Lightroom - 1.2 and earlier are not compatible Adobe Premier Pro - 3.1 and earlier are not compatible Alien Skin Eye Candy 5, Xenofex 1, not compatible Alsoft - Disk Warrior 4 - "Alsoft recommends DW4 not be run from OSX10.5" AOL - Version 10.3.7 and under not compatible Apple Backup 3.1 and earlier not compatible Apple Final Cut Pro 4.5 and earlier are not compatible Apple iDVD 1,2,3,4,5,7.0 not compatible Apple iPhoto 2 not compatible AppleJack 1.4.3 not compatible
I could go on...and on...I didn't make it out of the 'A's...
Yeah for a lot of software if you had the latest version, they released a free update to make it leopard compatible. But if you were a version behind... better be prepared to shell out. Leopard wasn't anywhere near 99.99% backwards compatible... even with 10.4, never mind 10.2 era software, and of course OS9 is RIGHT OUT.
Meanwhile Vista/Win7 will still run a lot of DOS6 apps? Not all of them. Probably not anywhere near 99% of them, but an awful LOT of them. I still have a few programs and command line utilities I wrote in C++ for DOS in the early 90s, and they all run on Vista x64, not to mention the ancient Motorola radio programming tool that programs old Motorola 2-way trunk unit; it still works too.
I agree Microsoft screwed up the Vista launch, and backwards compatibility was less than ideal. But it blows away what you get from Apple. The only difference is that with Apple, I think people -expect- no backwards compatibility, so they don't blink when they have to buy the latest version of all their software, buy a new printer, toss their old MP3 player*, etc.
(* My old Samsung Yepp only came with OS9 and Windows software. I can still use it with Vista. I haven't been able to sync it to a Mac in nearly a decade (it didn't work in classic). I handed it down to my kids years ago; and it finlly got retired when I bought my youngest a new Sansa this christmas.)
I'd like to get something to replace my antique Dual Pentium II 450 FreeBSD 4 server.....something around $100 that draws less power, but could do RAID mirroring and could run MYSQL, PHP5 and Apache 2
There's more to GMail than just the free service that everyone and their dog seems to use.
Fair enough. What are the functional differences between it and the free service if any? But regardless, when all is said and done, it probably qualifies as a legitimate mail outsourcing option.
I'm still leery of it though. Personally I trust google about as much as I trust Microsoft, but that's just me.
So, your going to blacklist you@gmail.com and have all your friends and family use some whitelisted you+tag@gmail.com?
Sure I guess that would work, but I prefer not to annoy my friends and family with extra tags and funky punctuation. So its simpler to just have a separate gmail account, or a hotmail account... or whatever.
I've gotten the state out of sync. Where clicking open closes something, and vice versa, because the data model is out of sync with what's rendered in the browser.
Is that a question? Because no, it's neither a feature nor is it correct. GMail is a multithreaded application.
Cite? Because seriously, I don't do a lot of Javascript programming, but I'm pretty sure all the major browsers only give you a single javascript thread per tab. And there are countless tutorials for 'simulating multiple threads' in browsers (meaning they work more or less like windows 3.1 and meaning they aren't really multi-threaded.)
Chrome separates each tab into its own process. A random site should not crash the GMail tab
And yet it can and does.
Now that you've had your peace, allow me to fire a few salvos in return:
(fyi: piece not peace)
Does your local email client support having messages in multiple folders?
I presume you mean one message in multiple folders at once, not copies of the same message in multiple folders?
Even so, yes. OSX's mail.app does this, Thunderbird's 'Saved Search' is this and even supports message tagging (though not as robust as gmails). I'm pretty sure even the new outlook has this.
Do you still have access to messages in your IMAP folders when you lose connectivity?
Of course. Sync features from server and client are old hat.
Does your client have integrated IM and video chat making it a complete communications platform?
What if I use yahoo for IM? Is ICQ still around? Does gmail let me stay in touch with all the networks trillian supports? My standalone IM client lets me transfer files, and share a whiteboard... does gmail?
But that's all beside the point... IM and video chat are not a core feature of an email client, and suggesting that you need them to be a 'complete communications platform' is misleading.
After all... we can run around all day about bolt on features that we need in a 'complete communications platform'... If I used twitter (I don't) then does gmail store all my twits like emails? If I used myspace or facebook (I don't and I don't) then does gmail store all the messages I get through that as email? Does gmail store all my incoming/outgoing phone calls and voice mail? What about feedback I leave in web forms on random web pages? My calendar? Shared calenders? Shared calendars with people using Outlook? What about to-do lists? Shared to-do lists? How about a calculator? Does it keep track of the urls I vist? I guess it needs a web browser too? Can it keep track of my passwords? Does it store my bookmarks? Does it reconcile my checking account with my paypal confirmation messages? Index transcriptions of the web based support chats offered by ebay? What about my WoW and EQ2 group chat? Internet faxing?
To me all of those should be extensions or external apps. Maybe to you, IM is a native feature of an email client. Its not to me. And even if it was, none of my friends/family use gtalk; unless it supported ichat/aim, msn, and yahoo it would be useless.
Ditto for video chat...
Does your client automatically thread related messages?
It actually does if I wanted it to. But I usually don't. I like new mail on top, sorted chronologically, not in threads. If I need to see the thread together I can, but most people simply leave the thread in the message body, so its not that common I need to see more.
And I actually find threads quite annoying for email, because they only work within a thread. I prefer to filter to messages to/from/cc the recipient so I can see the entire communications with that person in chrono order regardless of whether it's in a thread or not.
For example: If someone sends me a message, I reply, and then sends my boss a separate message, and my boss replies and cc's me, and then he replies back to me. And then he replies to my boss a
Put whatever you want after the + sign. It will still route directly to your inbox. Then, just setup a filter to put anything with "+spam" to the spam folder or the trash or wherever.
Yes, that's why when I see an x+y@gmail.com address in my zombie net I just strip off the +y.
It's a beautiful thing.
If by beautiful you mean trivial for spammers or anyone else who knows the first thing about google to get around, then yes.
Or a free email client that provides all the features of GMail.
Is getting its state confused when I click too fast a feature? Is running in a single threaded javascript UI a feature? Is having one browser tab on some random borked site crashing chrome (and therefore the 'email client' goes down too) a feature?
Are you kidding me? Web development is easier than ever! For the first time, code really does work across standards compliant browsers. The only exception is Internet Explorer...
That's like saying "My new public washrooms air freshener really works, everyone loves its clean refreshing scent that masks all offensive odors. The only exception is people with dark hair, it right fucks them up."
Oh and I can't beleive you used 'digg' and 'making us more productive' in the same paragraph. My head asplode.;)
A lot of commercial apps will often have such requirements
They all do. No company offering support will support their product "on anything, with anything".
but the open source apps typically supported by most linux distributions usually don't
True unless you pay for any sort of support at any level. Again, no company offering support even for FOSS will agree to support something 'on anything, with anything'.
You could build a single redhat server and use it to run dns (via bind), http (via apache), mail (via sendmail) and a bunch of other stuff, while still being under the support offered by redhat.
Yes, if you limit yourself to the packages officially supported by the distro and hosted in its own official repositories you will be ok. But that's not normally an assumption you can make.
The distro supplied apps will also be tested together, so the risk of installing updates is minimal - their distro testing is likely to be better thn what you can do yourself.
Again, yes, if you can limit yourself to distro supplied apps.
But again their are caveats: 1) In a 'validated environment' such as what you have to maintain for an ISO or FDA certification/approval, you have to perform your own validation. So the fewer services on an image, the less re-validation effort you have to do whenever you make a change.
2) Even on reasonably basic systems your own shell/perl/python scripts have to be re-validated if you make a change that could potentially impact their operation. (And in a validated environment, even if they can't potentially impact their operation you still have to document that you made that evaluation and concluded they couldn't be impacted, every time you apply a patch or update to anything...and god help you if there is a chance they are impacted...)
Yes, working in a validated environment can melt your soul, especially if someone like catbert wrote it. (And people like catbert are attracted to writing ISO quality management systems like flies to shit.)
Running everything on a single OS image, when correctly configured, gives a pretty significant performance benefit.
And pretty significant maintenance COST. Running everything on a single OS image means you have to:
a) settle on one OS. you cite windows VMs being common because apps often don't play well together. In my experience, Linux really isn't much better... lots of apps are only vender supported or fully compatible with a limited set of distros or distro versions with specific package version requirements, deviate outside that and your on your own...
With VMs you can trivially run product A in RHEL4 and service B in Debian, and simply not have to worry about it.
b) any time you make a change to any of the services on the image, you have to retest and validate the entire image to ensure nothing broke. If I'm running A and B, and an update to A requires me to update perl or python... and B also uses perl or python than you need to potentially extensively re-test B to make sure it still works.
c) when one of the services load grows its trivial to migrate that service to a new physical server without doing a ton of work building a new image, moving data, testing it, spinning the service down on the old server, etc. Granted, running VMs means overhead that will mean you will have to migrate the service earlier than you would otherwise... but the savings in effort when actually moving it more than makes up for it.
Newsflash: software has bugs. Not upgrading your software will bite you in the ass eventually, especially if this software runs critical systems like your routers.
Newsflash: software has bugs. Upgrading your software will bite you in the ass eventually, especially if this software runs critical systems like your routers.
See? The statement is true either way... update or don't update. It doesn't matte. One way you'll get bitten by dormant bugs in the old version, the other way will bite you with bugs introduced in the upgrade.
The only question that remains is which will bite you in the ass first and more often. From long experience most people agree... if it isn't broken, don't fix it.
On the other hand, they do use less energy, which is a clear positive for a laptop.
And thus they are cooler. A clear positive for any system, but especially a laptop. They are also silent and don't vibrate. They are also, from what I understand, more reliable.
I'm seriously considering flash drives for my desktop PC... they just need one more capacity jump and I think they'll be worth it. $400 for 128MB is a touch small.. but I'll go for it at $400 for 256MB. On my main PC I'm only using 236GB of my 500GB drive, and I could easily move 150GB of that onto my 1TB external e-sata drives that I turn on when I need.
That is their problem; you should NOT base you business model on a changing proprietary algorithm of another company. And there are still loads of other ways to get more market penetration. Having a good product helps, reaching the right blog-writers, and good ol' fashioned word of mouth works as well.
And after hearing about how good your product is, by reading a blog or hearing about it via word of mouth, a more than sizeable chunk will still use google to try and find you.
Again: any company that relies on only 1 other company for customers puts itself in high risk; it is a very bad business model.
And that is how life works when there are monopolies. I don't get to choose what company supplies my electricity either, but you don't see people wandering around saying "Any company that relies on only 1 other company for electricity puts itself in high risk; its a very bad business model."
Hell, if you like the group, you will buy the 3$ to get the unheard tracks. Its just 3$.
As a glorfied system to pay to sample music, or show fan support for your favorite band -- it works at that level.
But what if I actually like the tracks? I have to re-stream them everytime I want to listen to them? And I can't put them in a playlist? And I have to load a different app each with its own UI to listen to different artists? Nobody is going to put up with that.
Like I said, if they want little iphone fan clubs, by all means, but I absolutely do not want this to become the only way of getting access to a given music track.
I can already sample the song for free at any of a dozen online music stores to decide if I like it, and if I walk into a CD shop they'll put the CD on for me so I can listen to a full song or 3 for free. I can already read their bios and tour dates on the web for free... so what do I get exactly?
I can samples the whole songs without visiting a real store? That about it, I can't bloody well do anything else with them.
Actually the price really isn't the issue (and the next band might charge considerably more since each app is priced individually... what if this were 29.95?), but I'd find it almost useless even if it were free. (Although at free I'd use it to sample a new band, before buying.)
The songs are effectively useless because they can't even be put into an itunes playlist on that iphone. And I have to switch apps to listen to songs from different artists.
Slashdot Mirror
Even ignoring the bit where Apple can veto your app with no recourse, the development platform costs a minimum of $1,500 or so, as you have to buy their hardware to use it.
You realize you need a computer with Windows to do Windows development too, and that isn't free either. You even need a computer with Linux to do Linux development... and while linux is at least free the PC still isn't. I don't hear you moaning about the hundreds of dollars you need to spend on your linux or G1 development platform.
Also, FYI, assuming you already have a monitor, etc, a mac mini is only $600, and is more than enough to do iphone development on.
Nowadays, being "first" doesn't make it yours. Having it, and being able to keep it for a sufficient period of time makes it yours.
Apparently the crocs didn't get the memo.
Or maybe they did. After all, if they can keep you off the beach or out of your pool for a 'sufficient period of time' it makes it theirs, right?
I want to buy the games,
Really. Every game you've ever pirated wasn't available in your region? Conceivable. Unlikely. And if you think you represent the majority your insane.
but Nintendo doesn't want to sell the games for any of several reasons.
Haha. Doesn't want. Cute. Earthbound isn't coming to N.A. because it's chock full of recognizable music... The Who, Chuck Berry, The Champs, The Doors, and several Beatles references (and music samples).
There are two main reasons games don't come to different regions:
The first is localization costs (translation, ratings, etc)
The second is licensing rights (to characters, to music, to logos, to whatever...)
The first is just a matter of money, and if projected sales are high enough, they'll invest. The second also requires money, but in many cases is simply irreconcilable. Earthbound, falls into the 2nd category.
What is the alternative to piracy in this case?
Since you asked, the answer is: Import. Yes it costs 'even more', and yes you still have to mod your console to play imported titles (or buy a 2nd one) but you don't need to pirate the games.
I don't know, it sounds like a good idea to me. We can start with simple things like eye and hair color, and hopefully move on to eliminating the genetics that cause obesity, stupidity, and depression.
Of course stupid obese depressed people are more susceptible to advertising and consumption in general... so when google buys out the fertility clinics, that will be the default selection... and the question to couples seeking fertility help is... well... do you want a baby or not?
We offer you a child with the eye and hair color of your choice at no charge... of course you'll have to accept that he'll buy everything in sight. Your IVF treatment was paid for by advertisers after all... no we don't offer a paid option without the ads.
If you don't like that, talk to Apple... they'll hook you up with one of their models -- of course they only have exactly 3 models, they'll engrave your name on it though; but that's the extent of personalization, they cost a premium, and this year its glossy silver hair on all of them. If you don't like it, tough...
That's feasible without Gears or HTML5, but it's not what the XMLHttpRequest object does.
The XMLHttoRequest object doesn't deliver multi-threading, even if it is itself multithreaded.
Say I want to calculate pi to a million decimal places in a thread and tally up the sum of those digits, all locally, without contacting a remote server to do the work. I want another thread to keep a running monitor on the current progress of the first thread (ie how many digits calculated so far). I want still another thread to generate a 'visualization' akin to what your mp3 player does using the 'most recent digit calculated' in the first thread as its seed. (but without synchronization, so if thread 3 misses values that's fine... thread 1 doesn't need to wait on each digit for thread 3.
And some AJAX in a browser using XMLHttpRequest can do this? I admit I'm not a javascript browser/html5/ajax ninja... but this seems seriously out bounds of what you can do without resorting to win3.1 style single threaded cooperative multitasking techniques.
GMail is a competitive software application.
Its a software service.
I'd have virtually no hostility at all towards a gmail application I could install on my own servers.
Relationships are about trust. You can't both voluntarily use Google's services and not trust them. Complaining that you don't trust them doesn't change your implicit trust of them.
Right. I don't trust Microsoft with my data, but I trust my data in their software on my hardware. I could extend the same trust to google, but with them its either you trust them with your data, or you don't have relationship with them at all.
Actually CS2 is probably the 'best' of the apps on the list. Adobe's official statement on CS2 is "not supported, you may run into problems, there will be no updates to resolve them". Every other app on the list is outright 'not compatible'.
That said... reading this...(and dozens of other threads like it...) would lead me to beleive that CS2 on leopard is a bit flakey.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5673439
I just took it to mean he wants it to work will all his hardware or he won't install it.
Hardware, software... Apple leaves both behind at a whim.
Mac did break backward compatibility, but with good reason.
Apple breaks backward compatibility with each iteration. Some iterations much more drastically than others. It wasn't just a one time thing.
And saying 'but with good reason' doesn't make peoples stuff work again.
And if its a good enough excuse for Apple than Vista can use it too. Vista is better than previous versions (assuming suitable hardware). The security improvements are real, not just theatre, and represent a huge 'break' from previous Windows iterations. It is responsible for most of the compatibility issues -- and in my opinion it is just as 'forgivable' as apple's architecture switches. Microsoft HAD to make these changes to make the OS more secure; this pain was a long time coming and I'm glad it finally happened.
They made their OS run better and the upgraded applications allowed the same functions but with new technology.
And they required you to pay for those upgraded applications. iLife to iLife08 isn't a free upgrade. Apple Remote desktop 2 to 3 isn't a free upgrade. Final Cut Pro 5 to 6 isn't a free upgrade... and if you had the old version they didn't work with leopard.
But hey, if I'm ok with paying to run upgraded applications that allow the same functionality but with new technology, then why are people pissing and moaning that Office 2k/XP isn't 100% vista compatible... they can just just upgrade.
At least, from a business point of view.
These are the same businesses running Windows 2000 servers? Who screamed blue murder when XP came out? And managed to scream even louder when Vista came out? The only reason you don't hear businesses screaming when Apple releases an update is that not many businesses rely on them. If Apple gets significant marketshare, the volume of businesses screaming when they release new OS updates will rise accordingly.
I know your being cynical, but if you:
a) answered the question
b) put interesting facts in
c) put relevant link in
d) entertain people in the process
Hell, you deserve to be modded up.
This post meets a & d, but misses b and c so should still do ok. But overuse this particular d and it will cease to entertain which just leaves a, and there is no shortage of a's, which means this template, if it remains unfilled will start out funny, but as the funny wears off your moderation will trend towards redundant. ;)
Ever hear of AJAX? As in "Asynchronous Javascript and XML"? AJAX allows the requests to the network to be threaded in the background, thus keeping the app snappy.
Yes I've heard of it, and no; cooperative multi-tasking techniques a la windows 3.1 is not multi-threading. It gets you something that's "like multi-threaded" but with all the instability and flakiness inherent in cooperative multitasking.
As someone already pointed out, Google does this. Full service with your domain, SSL handling, a proper service contract and everything.
And I acknowledged that message.
(Actually, you can use SSL on Google already. Just go to https://gmail.google.com/ instead of the usual http.)
That's pretty pointless. Why would I really want the peace of mind that that only google gets to data mine my messages? :)
As for the laundry list of features that you partially responded to; I don't really care if any of them are in gmail or not. None of them are email features.
I think its the wrong direction. I don't want to cram thousands of features into one ginormous app to take advantage of its unified search. That's just stupid. What I want is the opposite of that... multiple separate applications exposing their data to the OS.
ie... what Apple's spotlight, or Microsoft Windows Desktop Search do. Where you have multiple applications expose their data to the OS search engine via modules or plugins. Spotlight for example has many such plugins...
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/spotlight/index_top.html
I'd be far more interested in exposing my gmail index to my desktop OS search, than cramming an mp3 player into gmail so it can index my playsists and id3 tags.
And I'd rather connect directly to my desktop remotely rather than some 3rd party data mining / advertising conglomerate web service to access my data. Then I get access to all my applications, all my data, not just what google supports, and without their 3rd party interference which is completely unnecessary.
I really can't imagine what they're thinking. If it isn't 99.99% compatible, it isn't getting on my machine. Whatever machine that might be.
oh? 99.99% or you don't install it?
I keep XP in a sandbox on my Mac and there it will stay
On your mac you say?
I'm curious, what did you do in 2001 when OSX was released? Did Apple give you 99.99% backwards compatibility? Hell no, not even close. Classic was decent, but people had to give up a LOT of stuff.
And what did you do in 2005 when Apple up and switched to intel? Did Apple give you 99.99% backwards compatibility to all your PPC and 68k stuff? Sure there was rosetta, and like classic, it was decent, but its not 99.99%. Not even close.
Criticising Vista and saying you'll only upgrade if the upgrade is 99.99% backwards compatible and then saying you use a Mac undermines everything you've said. Vista is WAY more backwards compatible than Apple even tries for.
Hell just from OS X 10.5 from 10.4:
Absoft Pro Fortran compiler - needs up update v10, previous versions - not compatible
Adept Music Notation 5.2.5 - not compatible
Adobe Acrobat 8 Professional - 8 - needs compatibility update, previous versions not compatible
Adobe Premier Pro CS3 - needs compatibility update (previous versions not compatible
Adobe After effects CS3, compatible updates required (previous versions not compatible
AdobePhotoshop Elements 4 and under not compatible
Adobe CS2 - not supported, not compatible
Adobe Photoshop Lightroom - 1.2 and earlier are not compatible
Adobe Premier Pro - 3.1 and earlier are not compatible
Alien Skin Eye Candy 5, Xenofex 1, not compatible
Alsoft - Disk Warrior 4 - "Alsoft recommends DW4 not be run from OSX10.5"
AOL - Version 10.3.7 and under not compatible
Apple Backup 3.1 and earlier not compatible
Apple Final Cut Pro 4.5 and earlier are not compatible
Apple iDVD 1,2,3,4,5,7.0 not compatible
Apple iPhoto 2 not compatible
AppleJack 1.4.3 not compatible
I could go on...and on...I didn't make it out of the 'A's...
Yeah for a lot of software if you had the latest version, they released a free update to make it leopard compatible. But if you were a version behind... better be prepared to shell out. Leopard wasn't anywhere near 99.99% backwards compatible... even with 10.4, never mind 10.2 era software, and of course OS9 is RIGHT OUT.
Meanwhile Vista/Win7 will still run a lot of DOS6 apps? Not all of them. Probably not anywhere near 99% of them, but an awful LOT of them. I still have a few programs and command line utilities I wrote in C++ for DOS in the early 90s, and they all run on Vista x64, not to mention the ancient Motorola radio programming tool that programs old Motorola 2-way trunk unit; it still works too.
I agree Microsoft screwed up the Vista launch, and backwards compatibility was less than ideal. But it blows away what you get from Apple. The only difference is that with Apple, I think people -expect- no backwards compatibility, so they don't blink when they have to buy the latest version of all their software, buy a new printer, toss their old MP3 player*, etc.
(* My old Samsung Yepp only came with OS9 and Windows software. I can still use it with Vista. I haven't been able to sync it to a Mac in nearly a decade (it didn't work in classic). I handed it down to my kids years ago; and it finlly got retired when I bought my youngest a new Sansa this christmas.)
that is why i always use my email address as formated:
can+you-guess+which_folder+is@my-email.com.myhome.notreally-arealwebpage.com
I'm a spammer with a zombie net, I'll eventually try -all- the combinations.
I'd like to get something to replace my antique Dual Pentium II 450 FreeBSD 4 server.....something around $100 that draws less power, but could do RAID mirroring and could run MYSQL, PHP5 and Apache 2
Something like...this then?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153045
There's more to GMail than just the free service that everyone and their dog seems to use.
Fair enough. What are the functional differences between it and the free service if any? But regardless, when all is said and done, it probably qualifies as a legitimate mail outsourcing option.
I'm still leery of it though. Personally I trust google about as much as I trust Microsoft, but that's just me.
So, your going to blacklist you@gmail.com and have all your friends and family use some whitelisted you+tag@gmail.com?
Sure I guess that would work, but I prefer not to annoy my friends and family with extra tags and funky punctuation. So its simpler to just have a separate gmail account, or a hotmail account... or whatever.
That depends upon what you mean by "confused".
I've gotten the state out of sync. Where clicking open closes something, and vice versa, because the data model is out of sync with what's rendered in the browser.
Is that a question? Because no, it's neither a feature nor is it correct. GMail is a multithreaded application.
Cite? Because seriously, I don't do a lot of Javascript programming, but I'm pretty sure all the major browsers only give you a single javascript thread per tab. And there are countless tutorials for 'simulating multiple threads' in browsers (meaning they work more or less like windows 3.1 and meaning they aren't really multi-threaded.)
Chrome separates each tab into its own process. A random site should not crash the GMail tab
And yet it can and does.
Now that you've had your peace, allow me to fire a few salvos in return:
(fyi: piece not peace)
Does your local email client support having messages in multiple folders?
I presume you mean one message in multiple folders at once, not copies of the same message in multiple folders?
Even so, yes. OSX's mail.app does this, Thunderbird's 'Saved Search' is this and even supports message tagging (though not as robust as gmails). I'm pretty sure even the new outlook has this.
Do you still have access to messages in your IMAP folders when you lose connectivity?
Of course. Sync features from server and client are old hat.
Does your client have integrated IM and video chat making it a complete communications platform?
What if I use yahoo for IM? Is ICQ still around? Does gmail let me stay in touch with all the networks trillian supports? My standalone IM client lets me transfer files, and share a whiteboard... does gmail?
But that's all beside the point ... IM and video chat are not a core feature of an email client, and suggesting that you need them to be a 'complete communications platform' is misleading.
After all... we can run around all day about bolt on features that we need in a 'complete communications platform'... If I used twitter (I don't) then does gmail store all my twits like emails? If I used myspace or facebook (I don't and I don't) then does gmail store all the messages I get through that as email? Does gmail store all my incoming/outgoing phone calls and voice mail? What about feedback I leave in web forms on random web pages? My calendar? Shared calenders? Shared calendars with people using Outlook? What about to-do lists? Shared to-do lists? How about a calculator? Does it keep track of the urls I vist? I guess it needs a web browser too? Can it keep track of my passwords? Does it store my bookmarks? Does it reconcile my checking account with my paypal confirmation messages? Index transcriptions of the web based support chats offered by ebay? What about my WoW and EQ2 group chat? Internet faxing?
To me all of those should be extensions or external apps. Maybe to you, IM is a native feature of an email client. Its not to me. And even if it was, none of my friends/family use gtalk; unless it supported ichat/aim, msn, and yahoo it would be useless.
Ditto for video chat...
Does your client automatically thread related messages?
It actually does if I wanted it to. But I usually don't. I like new mail on top, sorted chronologically, not in threads. If I need to see the thread together I can, but most people simply leave the thread in the message body, so its not that common I need to see more.
And I actually find threads quite annoying for email, because they only work within a thread. I prefer to filter to messages to/from/cc the recipient so I can see the entire communications with that person in chrono order regardless of whether it's in a thread or not.
For example: If someone sends me a message, I reply, and then sends my boss a separate message, and my boss replies and cc's me, and then he replies back to me. And then he replies to my boss a
Put whatever you want after the + sign. It will still route directly to your inbox. Then, just setup a filter to put anything with "+spam" to the spam folder or the trash or wherever.
Yes, that's why when I see an x+y@gmail.com address in my zombie net I just strip off the +y.
It's a beautiful thing.
If by beautiful you mean trivial for spammers or anyone else who knows the first thing about google to get around, then yes.
No you don't; you need wine. :-)
No he doesn't.
Wine isn't a complete substitute for windows.
And it certainly isn't a vendor supported substitute.
If you can use wine great, but you can't assume you can use wine. I've had it not work for TONS of stuff.
Or a free email client that provides all the features of GMail.
Is getting its state confused when I click too fast a feature?
Is running in a single threaded javascript UI a feature?
Is having one browser tab on some random borked site crashing chrome (and therefore the 'email client' goes down too) a feature?
Are you kidding me? Web development is easier than ever! For the first time, code really does work across standards compliant browsers. The only exception is Internet Explorer...
That's like saying "My new public washrooms air freshener really works, everyone loves its clean refreshing scent that masks all offensive odors. The only exception is people with dark hair, it right fucks them up."
Oh and I can't beleive you used 'digg' and 'making us more productive' in the same paragraph. My head asplode. ;)
A lot of commercial apps will often have such requirements
They all do. No company offering support will support their product "on anything, with anything".
but the open source apps typically supported by most linux distributions usually don't
True unless you pay for any sort of support at any level. Again, no company offering support even for FOSS will agree to support something 'on anything, with anything'.
You could build a single redhat server and use it to run dns (via bind), http (via apache), mail (via sendmail) and a bunch of other stuff, while still being under the support offered by redhat.
Yes, if you limit yourself to the packages officially supported by the distro and hosted in its own official repositories you will be ok. But that's not normally an assumption you can make.
The distro supplied apps will also be tested together, so the risk of installing updates is minimal - their distro testing is likely to be better thn what you can do yourself.
Again, yes, if you can limit yourself to distro supplied apps.
But again their are caveats:
1) In a 'validated environment' such as what you have to maintain for an ISO or FDA certification/approval, you have to perform your own validation. So the fewer services on an image, the less re-validation effort you have to do whenever you make a change.
2) Even on reasonably basic systems your own shell/perl/python scripts have to be re-validated if you make a change that could potentially impact their operation. (And in a validated environment, even if they can't potentially impact their operation you still have to document that you made that evaluation and concluded they couldn't be impacted, every time you apply a patch or update to anything...and god help you if there is a chance they are impacted...)
Yes, working in a validated environment can melt your soul, especially if someone like catbert wrote it. (And people like catbert are attracted to writing ISO quality management systems like flies to shit.)
Running everything on a single OS image, when correctly configured, gives a pretty significant performance benefit.
And pretty significant maintenance COST. Running everything on a single OS image means you have to:
a) settle on one OS. you cite windows VMs being common because apps often don't play well together. In my experience, Linux really isn't much better... lots of apps are only vender supported or fully compatible with a limited set of distros or distro versions with specific package version requirements, deviate outside that and your on your own...
With VMs you can trivially run product A in RHEL4 and service B in Debian, and simply not have to worry about it.
b) any time you make a change to any of the services on the image, you have to retest and validate the entire image to ensure nothing broke. If I'm running A and B, and an update to A requires me to update perl or python... and B also uses perl or python than you need to potentially extensively re-test B to make sure it still works.
c) when one of the services load grows its trivial to migrate that service to a new physical server without doing a ton of work building a new image, moving data, testing it, spinning the service down on the old server, etc. Granted, running VMs means overhead that will mean you will have to migrate the service earlier than you would otherwise... but the savings in effort when actually moving it more than makes up for it.
In my experience. of course. YMMV.
Newsflash: software has bugs. Not upgrading your software will bite you in the ass eventually, especially if this software runs critical systems like your routers.
Newsflash: software has bugs. Upgrading your software will bite you in the ass eventually, especially if this software runs critical systems like your routers.
See? The statement is true either way... update or don't update. It doesn't matte. One way you'll get bitten by dormant bugs in the old version, the other way will bite you with bugs introduced in the upgrade.
The only question that remains is which will bite you in the ass first and more often. From long experience most people agree... if it isn't broken, don't fix it.
On the other hand, they do use less energy, which is a clear positive for a laptop.
And thus they are cooler. A clear positive for any system, but especially a laptop.
They are also silent and don't vibrate.
They are also, from what I understand, more reliable.
I'm seriously considering flash drives for my desktop PC... they just need one more capacity jump and I think they'll be worth it. $400 for 128MB is a touch small.. but I'll go for it at $400 for 256MB. On my main PC I'm only using 236GB of my 500GB drive, and I could easily move 150GB of that onto my 1TB external e-sata drives that I turn on when I need.
That is their problem; you should NOT base you business model on a changing proprietary algorithm of another company. And there are still loads of other ways to get more market penetration. Having a good product helps, reaching the right blog-writers, and good ol' fashioned word of mouth works as well.
And after hearing about how good your product is, by reading a blog or hearing about it via word of mouth, a more than sizeable chunk will still use google to try and find you.
Again: any company that relies on only 1 other company for customers puts itself in high risk; it is a very bad business model.
And that is how life works when there are monopolies. I don't get to choose what company supplies my electricity either, but you don't see people wandering around saying "Any company that relies on only 1 other company for electricity puts itself in high risk; its a very bad business model."
Hell, if you like the group, you will buy the 3$ to get the unheard tracks. Its just 3$.
As a glorfied system to pay to sample music, or show fan support for your favorite band -- it works at that level.
But what if I actually like the tracks? I have to re-stream them everytime I want to listen to them? And I can't put them in a playlist? And I have to load a different app each with its own UI to listen to different artists? Nobody is going to put up with that.
Like I said, if they want little iphone fan clubs, by all means, but I absolutely do not want this to become the only way of getting access to a given music track.
What do you expect for $3 measely dollars?
What do I get for 3 measily dollars?
I can already sample the song for free at any of a dozen online music stores to decide if I like it, and if I walk into a CD shop they'll put the CD on for me so I can listen to a full song or 3 for free. I can already read their bios and tour dates on the web for free... so what do I get exactly?
I can samples the whole songs without visiting a real store?
That about it, I can't bloody well do anything else with them.
Actually the price really isn't the issue (and the next band might charge considerably more since each app is priced individually... what if this were 29.95?), but I'd find it almost useless even if it were free. (Although at free I'd use it to sample a new band, before buying.)
The songs are effectively useless because they can't even be put into an itunes playlist on that iphone. And I have to switch apps to listen to songs from different artists.
Who wants that at any price?