1 of 3 Dell Inspiron Mini Netbooks Sold With Linux

christian.einfeldt writes "According to an article in Laptop Magazine on-line, one-third of Dell Inspiron Mini 9s netbooks are sold with the Ubuntu Linux operating system. Dell senior product manager John New attributed the sales volume to the lower price point of the Ubuntu Linux machines. And the return rate of the Ubuntu Linux machines is approximately equal to that of comparable netbooks sold with Microsoft Windows XP. Dell spokesperson Jay Pinkert attriutes the low return rate to Dell's good communications with its customers, saying 'We have done a very good job explaining to folks what Linux is.'"

Comments

Netbooks and Linux

[Paranatural]

Netbooks are the prefect place to introduce people to Linux. Because they generally don't expect to play games (Other than flash games and the like) or use them for a lot of officework, Linuxes major flaws are not apparent, while its advantages (Free, faster) are.

If I were involved in the Linux community I'd be pushing hard for a lot of development of drivers and the like for Unbutu (Linux needs some name recognition somewhere)

That's why the previous story about difficulty with the EEE and Linux was disturbing to me.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[h4rr4r]

Drivers are for the kernel, not for a distribution.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

What's disturbing is that Asus chooses hardware that has bad drivers and a manufacturer that just does not want to co-operate... Some Eees have a pretty good wireless chip but for some reason they are now using the awful Ralink hardware that A) sucks on every platform and B) has linux drivers so bad that they're not even enabled on the default kernel build.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[MindlessAutomata]

RAlink more like RAstink, right? RIGHT?

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Tubal-Cain]

Linux's major flaws...

Heathen!

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

> drivers and the like for Unbutu (Linux needs some name recognition somewhere)
name recognition fail

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[vh22]

I've had similar experiences with Ubuntu. Its just too damn bloated. But Linux is just the kernel and it is indeed fast. What distros pile on top of the kernel is what can slow the whole OS down if they are not careful. Crafting a system from kernel up (ala LFS) is too extreme. There are distros that will install a base kernel and let you add whatever packages you want from repositories, like Arch. These system do not require all that much Linux knowledge and most will blow XP out of the water speed-wise.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Dell Netbook with XP $379ca
Dell Netbook with UB $379ca
The advantage of free seems to be working pretty well for Dell.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Zantetsuken]

Because Asus basically gave their original target audience the finger.

Asus's Eee is a large cause for the attention netbooks have received, and was originally meant to run GNU/Linux only. The trouble started when they saw they were getting so much attention, they would make a Windows version, beefing up the machine and going from hardware that had great Linux driver support to mediocre.

The Eee was supposed to be so cheap and yet so good, and then they started making announcements that, "No, it will not only no longer come with a 4GiB internal SSD, it will be 2GiB AND cost more."</rant>

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[d3ac0n]

The problem with the GP's comments is that he fails to take into consideration that XP (and other versions of Windows) REQUIRE the use of:

a) Antivirus software. Yes, you CAN do without it, and many technically minded people do. But you HAVE to know how to properly secure your machine and you will still need to use a one-shot scanner like Trend Micro's on occasion. For the AVERAGE (IE: most of the population) user, they will want AV software. Once that's installed you can kiss your speed goodbye. Especially if you load up what MOST users load up, either Symantec or Macaffee.

b) Anti-Spyware software. See Antivirus software.

Those two items, particularly the first one, completely KILL any speed advantage Windows has, handing the speed mantle to any of a dozen linux distros quite easily. Again, to keep it honest, we MUST compare standard setups to standard setups. Linux does not require AV software, Windows does. Simple fact of life in the modern computing world.

So, rather then your strawman argument of stupid people starting the "Linux is faster" meme, it was actually experienced users used to dealing with (and setting up) multiple platforms that have seen the difference and let others know.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[FusionJunky]

Dell's release specifically is fraught with Ubuntu + Broadcom headaches. Forums are filled with people whose wireless (and even their ethernet) are being disabled by patching and upgrades.

I want this to be awesome. But right now, Dellbuntu is not sexy.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[rbanffy]

Just curious: apart from playing games designed for Windows, do you know of any significant disadvantage of Linux?

Drivers are not usually a problem with devices that come with the OS pre-installed as the integrator makes sure that everything that ships works too.

So, where are the disadvantages you see?

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[sulfur]

that XP (and other versions of Windows) REQUIRE the use of: <...>

Yes, you CAN do without it

(emphasis added)

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[ld a,b]

I am very happy with my Dell Linux laptop. True, it included an Intel Wireless for which there is no freely distributable firmware, but that is a minor nuisance.
Most of the hardware is common and well documented. This allows me to use OpenBSD as my main desktop with everything perfectly supported.

The included Ubuntu is not perfect but it is good enough and with wine and proprietary addons can be run as a drop-in Windows replacement if one so wishes. I replaced it with Xubuntu which looks a lot better, and the wife loves it.

Here's to Dell. Keep the good work.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[gbarules2999]

I do not think you read his entire post ( or if you did you didn't understand the thesis), where he went on to say "...you will still need to use a one-shot scanner like Trend Micro's on occasion." Besides, nitpicking single words or phrases just means you have no real reason to dissent, but just feel like being a dick anyway.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[ballwall]

Sure, until several million parents and grandparents are using linux on their netbooks, then you need AV and anti-spyware just like on windows.

Linux is probably more secure from a remote attack perspective, but spyware and most malware aren't worms, they're a symptom of non-techies using computers. No OS can protect a user from himself.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think you are wrong. I can attest that my XP felt faster than Ubuntu when I switched.

However, it's not the same for most people. When I let people use my Xubuntu laptop they always comment on how fast it is.

You are failing to realize that most people Windows computers are loaded with crap unlike what you and I were likely running.

IMO, Linux is very fast, but GNOME and KDE destroy it. It is not that they are bloated, which they are, but that they include a lot of timeouts in animations and at times use X in stupid ways.

Also GTK firefox sucks. 3 is sucking less and less but still sucks a lot.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[icannotthinkofaname]

I've had similar experiences with Ubuntu. Its just too damn bloated.

But Linux is just the kernel and it is indeed fast. What distros pile on top of the kernel is what can slow the whole OS down if they are not careful.

Ubuntu's not even that bad about it, in my experience (8.04.1, 8.10). After I log in, when I see my full desktop prepared and my wireless Internet ready to go, the system is ready for me to start doing stuff. Kubuntu (8.04.x), I wanna give maybe 1 or 2 seconds to get settled after I get my Internet.

However, on logging into Windows Vista (or even, to a lesser extent, XP), I wanna wait five or ten minutes for the system to free up the CPU before I start doing stuff, because in my experience, Windows likes to do a lot of stuff in the background.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Freetarded bullshit.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Greyor]

The rt2x00 project has to a certain degree solved Ralink chipset problems. I access the internet with a Linksys WUSB54GC USB adaptor which runs the RT73 chipset, and I use rt2x00's legacy rt73 driver since rt73usb in the mainline kernel is 1) lacking in features and 2) not as stable IMHO.

That said, I don't know how Ralink's chipsets work on netbooks. I have a Dell Inspiron 1525n with that Intel wireless chipset mentioned above (no problems there, either). If you're having problems with the Ralink drivers on a netbook such as the Eee PC, though, I'd look into the rt2x00 project for some possible answers.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[DiegoBravo]

Most people (except maybe slashdotters) expect an OS that "just works" without dealing with modules nor their parameters. Yes, the drivers are part of the kernel, but distros differ a lot in the way or the capabilities for automatic hardware discovery and automatic module configuration. I think that's what the GP is referring to.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[sulfur]

I could have said that I haven't been using antivirus/antispyware/etc software on my computer that is running Windows for years; however, it wouldn't add much value to the discussion. I occasionally use online virus scanners, where I can upload cra^H^H^Hquestionable software and it would scan the binary for me, however this doesn't really support OP's argument. I think that if Linux had a high enough presence on computers of general public, malware makers would surely pay more attention to it.

Let's assume that Linux is installed on 80% of computers, and there are no worms or automatically replicating viruses for it (which is unlikely because all software more complex than "hello world" program has bugs). We would still have plenty of trojan-type malware that disguises itself as a toolbar / screensaver / PC optimizer / email attachment / etc... It doesn't matter how secure your OS is if the user is the weakest link, which is the case. I have rebuild and cleaned many Windows boxes from viruses, and in most cases, the machine became infected because the user willingly ran the trojan, and not because the machine was not patched.

I guess I should add that I support Linux computers (both servers and desktops) on a daily basis, and use RedHat as my home server's OS. I am just trying to be objective, and objectively, claiming that antivirus software is "required" on a Windows machine is not a good argument in support of Linux.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

What he meant was: required for the average user.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Lennie]

this should help some what:

mount -o noexec /dev/whatever /home

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

But if I refuse to give the unskilled users a root password, the risk of that toolbar causing problems is much less. Unix is fundamentally more secure than NT. In order to get to root, you need to have the user enter their password. This is a well defined problem, and if a way shows up around it, it can be fixed.

The Windows solution is a host of duct tape, which often breaks.

I have rebuild and cleaned many Windows boxes from viruses

Grammar aside, it's highly unlikely that you would have to rebuild the entire box, just the user's home directory. That should take a half an hour, as opposed to the hour or two for the entire OS.

Also, antivirus can run as admin in Linux or Mac, and it won't have to deal with programs screwing with the registry or anything else like that. On Windows, the antivirus has to watch everything.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[FlyingBishop]

Sorry, pretend that blockquote ends at "boxes from viruses."

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[sulfur]

But if I refuse to give the unskilled users a root password, the risk of that toolbar causing problems is much less. Unix is fundamentally more secure than NT. In order to get to root, you need to have the user enter their password. This is a well defined problem, and if a way shows up around it, it can be fixed.

Well, if I refuse to give the unskilled users an Administrator password, malware would not cause much problems to a Windows computer either. I guess that you would respond that it is impossible to use Windows as a non-admin user. Wrong, when I did desktop support for a large corporation almost none of our users had admin rights (mostly because our packages were tested and modified in order to allow that). The problem lies with third-party apps that assume that the user has admin rights, and write to system registry areas instead of %appdata% or other user-owned places.

Anyway, you can't really compare corporate and home environments. In a centrally managed environment, competent IT support can secure both types of OS'es. At home, the user needs to have root/admin access to their computer anyway.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Drivers are for the kernel, not for a distribution.

Printer drivers?

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[ballwall]

But that only works until they want to install itunes for linux or some other app, which will require privilege escalation, which is pretty much exactly where windows 7 is at right now. (Vista was an attempt to get there, but a poor one).

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[jhol13]

But as every distribution has different kernel ...

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[jhol13]

Until that day I will be a happy camper.

See you in ten years!

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[uniquegeek]

Windows... and every program that decides it needs to pre-load and run services in memory.

When I was using Windows, the one that surprised me the most is discovering the IPod service. I guess I tried out Itunes at one point, so it figured I must automatically need the Ipod service.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Zaphod The 42nd]

True, but the whole point is that right now, in the real world, linux doesn't need AV and windows does, so if you're looking at what to put on your lappy, that factors into the equation.

Possibly in the future (oh man wouldn't it be beautiful?) Linux will see larger market share and will be targeted by viruses more, but this isn't a study of how many dell laptops will be sold in the future.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[walshy007]

haven't checked in the last month or two, but I know as of late last year the chipset used in the eeepc 1000H for wifi (rt2860) is unsupported by rt2x00, are are most chipsets that can do N. Work is under way, but timings indicated 'no set schedule for completion' so when it will be ready is unknown.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[drinkypoo]

But you HAVE to know how to properly secure your machine and you will still need to use a one-shot scanner like Trend Micro's on occasion.

It depends on how froggy you like to get. I go strange places and download odd things, so I have AVG installed. But I ran Windows XP for literally years with no virus protection and no viruses. Just don't run cracks and hacks and whacks on your box, don't surf with IE and if you do for the love of god don't visit scary sites.

I've never gotten ANYTHING with trend or any other one-shot that AVG hasn't picked up. Trend is almost never the first with a new definition anyway.

[...]Anti-Spyware software. See Antivirus software. Those two items, particularly the first one, completely KILL any speed advantage Windows has

This is complete and utter bunk nonsense. Anti-malware programs which run all the time aren't as invasive as antivirus programs. Well, unless you run that piece of shit that comes with spybot.

The simple truth is that I get more FPS in Windows XP than I do in Linux when I'm playing games, and for 99% of the consumer market that is the only time they will ever stress their machine. This is true even for games with Linux ports. Meanwhile I can say with some authority that having run various Linuxes and Windows XP on the very same machine for periods of months to years, that Windows XP is dramatically more responsive. Now, when you bring Vista into the equation, I have to agree with you... But "Windows" means a lot of things, and you didn't specify.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[lordtoran]

...that is based on the vanilla kernel with maybe slightly different build options and a few patches.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[lordtoran]

Yep. Essentially this trend is killing off netbooks as they were originally intended. By introducing Windows, netbooks have become slightly shrunken subnotebooks at just the same price.

And the weirdest part is, it profits nobody. The customer pays more than he should, Microsoft loses money on every Windows netbook license, and the vendors and sellers don't see one cent more either. Free market at its best!

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Sj0]

Intel GMA 945 drivers are much less sophisticated on XFree86 than Windows. Video performance is substantially degraded, which means watching videos, and youtube-like videos in particular, will be barely watchable.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[jhol13]

Who *really* cares? The end result is that I cannot use the driver which came with e.g. the Eee.

I have to search for a driver which happens to work sometimes with someone who may drop support at any time. Then the driver stops working after next security update.

Do you really think anyone (sane) cares how "close" the kernel is to one of the "vanilla" kernels?

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[rbanffy]

I find mine quite watchable in my Acer Aspire One. YMMV with other chips, but since you mentioned Intel GMA 945, I feel comfortable to say it's good enough.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Sj0]

I've got the same machine, and I couldn't handle how poor the video performance was under Ubuntu 8.10 compared to Windows XP or Windows 7, so I switched to the latter.

Yeah, I'll be back on Ubuntu later because I don't intend to pay for something Microsoft will just take back when I install it one too many times, but the truth in the meantime doesn't change. Performance under Windows is better.

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[Lennie]

Don't let stupid users install apps. :-)

Re:Netbooks and Linux

[rbanffy]

Interesting... I have Win7 installed in the same machine and, while it sucks less than Vista (and looks a whole lot better than XP) its performance is somewhat unimpressive.

Perhaps you use more video or Flash thingies than I do. Performance perxeption is all about your application mix.

The problem are the other two thirds

[G3ckoG33k]

The problem are the other two thirds. What are they made up of? XP and Vista or what?!

Re:The problem are the other two thirds

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly, you can't buy a copy of windows for the difference in price, so you get a copy of windows "just in case" and install ubuntu yourself. Thing is I don't think a lot of people actually install it once they have a working operating system. They are afraid of losing ability to do something, they just don't know what that something is.

Re:The problem are the other two thirds

[jonlandrum]

Isn't that what stops people from switching to Linux in the first place? On the other hand, if Linux is supplied by the OEM, they're just as likely to keep Linux versus switching to Windows, "just in case."

Re:The problem are the other two thirds

[cheap.computer]

The other 2/3rds is XP - Ubuntu dual boot.

Re:The problem are the other two thirds

[Anonymous Coward]

well dell currently offers the xp version with more ram at less cost (after a $150 "rebate") , so i think i'll just be putting on ubuntu after market. (only problem i can see is getting rid of the stupid microsoft sticker from the bottom without it becoming all gummy

Re:The problem are the other two thirds

[Locke2005]

Vista is way to bloated and inefficient to run well on a netbook, so the other 2/3 is all XP.

Re:The problem are the other two thirds

[bconway]

A not-insignificant chunk is running OS X, as well.

How To: Hackintosh a Dell Mini 9 Into the Ultimate OS X Netbook

Re:The problem are the other two thirds

[morghanphoenix]

Just remember to get yourself the Windows rebate after you decline the EULA. Take that number off the narket share Microsoft claims. You have to wonder just how many of those users MS claims are either dual booting, or have completely wiped the drive and installed something else in it's place.

Re:The problem are the other two thirds

[stevel]

As a Mini 9 owner and participant in the mydellmini.com forum, another not-insignificant number are running Windows 7. Oh, and Vista runs fine there too.

I will agree, from what I see, that there are a lot of Mini 9 owners running Ubuntu. But an equal number, I would estimate, buy the smallest, cheapest configuration (which is available with Ubuntu only) and then add their own memory, larger SSD and OS install - which might be OS X, XP, Vista or Windows 7. Someone has even managed to boot BeOS on a Mini 9!

FWIW, my Mini 9 runs Windows 7.

Re:The problem are the other two thirds

[Jason Earl]

To my friends in the Mac Fanboi community I extend a warm welcome to the install-it-yourself operating system slums. You get no support, your sale counts as a sale for an operating system you wouldn't touch with a ten-foot barge pole, but you get to run the operating system you want on the hardware you purchased. That assumes, of course, that someone in China hasn't switched out a wireless chipset or a memory card reader for something 10 cents cheaper, that your operating system doesn't support, without changing the model number.

Dell doesn't care what operating system you actually run. They only care what operating system you PAID for. People that switch operating systems on their hardware just mean less support calls for Dell. If anything running OS X on your Dell Mini only strengthens the case for selling Linux. Dell can sell Linux-based minis and steal sales from Microsoft and Apple both.

The only company that *does* care that you installed OS X on a Dell Mini is Apple, and they are almost certainly hard at work trying to shut this practice down. At least when Linux users go install-it-yourself slumming we are not breaking the law.

Don't kid yourself, OS X is not a factor in this particular market.

Re:The problem are the other two thirds

[CAIMLAS]

Nonsense.

There are two groups of people who are buying netbooks, I think: women, and geeks. Women, because they're cute, and geeks, because they're cute (the computers, in both cases, not the people, are the cute item). The geek, however, is going to put whatever his preferred software is. I'm guessing there are still a lot more Windows geeks than Linux geeks, simply on the basis of numbers - and the fact that Windows is likely to be much more comfortable for the younger geeks who have little experience or knowledge (and who are also the most likely demographic to buy a netbook).

Re:The problem are the other two thirds

[Pope]

That's why I bought the Ubuntu 512MB version: a) I could get 2GB RAM stick off eBay for cheaper than Dell wanted for an upgrade, and b) I'm going to install OS X on it as soon as my damn RunCore SSD gets here.

Sounds good to me

[WiiVault]

I have tons of XP licenses available, any time I can save money and not get another useless license is win-win. And yes Ubuntu is great, but I need Windows for a few things.

Re:Sounds good to me

[Smidge207]

...I need Windows for a few things.

No you don't; you need wine. :-)

Cheers.

Re:Sounds good to me

[vux984]

No you don't; you need wine. :-)

No he doesn't.
Wine isn't a complete substitute for windows.
And it certainly isn't a vendor supported substitute.

If you can use wine great, but you can't assume you can use wine. I've had it not work for TONS of stuff.

Re:Sounds good to me

[Timothy Brownawell]

...I need Windows for a few things.

No you don't; you need wine. :-)

Cheers.

Last I heard, Visual Studio doesn't work in wine.

Re:Sounds good to me

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't need Visual Studio. You can use free IDE like Code::Blocks.

Re:Sounds good to me

[Anonymous Coward]

...I need Windows for a few things.

No you don't; you need wine. :-)

Cheers.

And that will solve my driver problem how?

Re:Sounds good to me

[scot4875]

Thanks for the suggestion, I hadn't heard of Code::Blocks before, and it looks like it's worth checking out.

However, it's only a C++ compiler. It's not a suitable replacement for Visual Studio if you're working in any other language.

--Jeremy

Re:Sounds good to me

[rbanffy]

"Last I heard, Visual Studio doesn't work in wine."

It's probably designed that way...

But then, he needs another IDE ;-)

Re:Sounds good to me

[Sj0]

You'll be so plastered you stop caring. "Yee-haw! fbdev video support roxorz my soxorz!"

"HP's Linux"

[Yvan256]

I recall the screenshots of Linux on the HP netbooks being very good-looking. Is Dell doing such a thing or are they just sticking plain'old Ubuntu on their Inspiron Mini 9s?

edit: holy hell, either Slashdot's CSS is messed up or something's wrong with Safari 4. I'll guess the fault is with Slashdot since it's the first website out of 50 where I see any problem.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[ericrost]

Its a crippled kernel that only recognizes 1 GB of RAM. They also rebranded Firefox 3 as "Web Browser" and installed a Yahoo! toolbar by default, and had Yahoo! as the default search engine by default. The crapped up Firefox some other way so that the trackpad scrolling worked HORRIBLY. If you have one of these machines, spend $20 on a 2 GB stick of RAM and install the vanilla version of Ubuntu Netbook Remix from:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UNR

You'll have a MUCH better experience. I have one and now love it, I hate what Dell did to "their" ubuntu though. They added no value and imposed artificial limitations to the hardware. Its really slick on that lowend hardware without Dell's cruft.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[MarkKnopfler]

I would really prefer Dell to ship the standard xfce or gnome interface for their machines, rather than trying something 'cute' like HP. A pretty layer would entail developing a whole new layer over the existing UI. This layer, inevitably would have bugs and irritating traits because of one simple reason -- It takes a lot of time and talent to create a good user interface/desktop environment. I would think that HP has slapped on a pretty but buggy and quickly developed layer over gnome to make it look cool, which ultimately will go on to frustrate the user. Then, Linux would be blamed and not that cruddy attempt at coolness.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[0prime]

I thought they updated the lpia kernel to support up to 2GB RAM back in December. Or maybe it was just that some people were recompiling the kernel, I don't remember.

Personally, I'd just want to be able to install Ubuntu 8.10 on the Dell netbook and use the launcher that Dell has; unfortunately, the launcher is made for the lpia based Dellbuntu 8.4

Re:"HP's Linux"

[ericrost]

I believe the stock kernel always has, since the hardware always has. IIRC Dell's modified kernel only supports 1 GB of RAM (and they provide NO updates in their repos) so that their marketing agreement with Microsoft that they not sell an item that can support more than 1 GB of RAM on it is abided by.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[jasontn]

Does anyone know why Dell would want to set the 1GB RAM limit? 4GB I can understand, but 1GB?

Re:"HP's Linux"

[gid]

The 1 GB limitation is probably due to the way they have the kernel compiled. The Linux kernel has a 1 GB limitation unless you have High Memory enabled. If I remember correctly, the kernel runs faster if High Memory is disabled, which is why Dell probably has the kernel configured that way. Linux mini 9s come standard with 512MB. Way too much information that I don't understand can be found here: http://kerneltrap.org/node/2450

As for the yahoo toolbar junk, I can't defend Dell on that one...

Thanks for the UNR link, I didn't know about that. I actually ordered a mini 9 with Linux a week ago when Dell was having a sale on em. ($284 w/ 1mp webcam, 1gb ram, 8 gb ssd) Can't wait for it to get here.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[h4rr4r]

Because of a deal they made with MS.

Call your dell rep and ask they will tell you all about it.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[Anonymous Coward]

Bought the Dell Mini w/Linux for my wife, she loves it.

It has a very nice easy-to-use-and-manage launcher and the desktop pics are also nice. You can still access the Gnome menu and synaptic is installed; though it is pre-set targeted to dell's mini repository. You can activate the ubuntu repositories without hassle though.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[nine-times]

I can't really blame them for altering their version of Linux, at least not as an abstract rule. At the very least, they're going to want to re-theme it for branding purposes, to give it a distinctive look, or at least to get rid of the Ubuntu brown. The probably should make sure that it has any fixes relevant to their hardware, assuming the distro doesn't accept their patches or just hasn't accepted the patches into the "stable" version yet. On top of that, of course they're going to want to add value if they can think of a way to do that.

Of course, that assumes that they have people at their company who are qualified to do this. The theme has to be good. The value-adds have to actually add value. That's not as easy as it seems. And then, these companies will unfortunately also try to protect their additions by trying to make it so their competitors can't use them. That's going to run afoul of the open source community even if not violating the GPL.

Here's something I'd love for Dell to do: create their own apt repositories (and repositories for any other package managers are used by distros they support) that provides drivers and any other software (e.g. openmanage) for all of their hardware. Servers, desktops, netbooks, everything.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[ericrost]

Also, that "launcher" is from the stock Ubuntu Netbook Remix linked in my OP. Dell has brought literally NOTHING to the table here.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[Anonymous Coward]

Really, because I have used both the stock Dell install that came with the system and Ubuntu 8.10 with the netbook remix. They look nothing alike.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[ericrost]

I guess the 8.10 version is different, 8.04.1 based UNR is IDENTICAL. I have it installed.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[0prime]

I meant that the Dell Ubuntu lpia kernel was initially limited to 1GB, but has since been updated to allow 2GB. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6435627

So after the beginning of January, Dell Ubuntu no longer has the "crippled kernel that only recognizes 1GB of RAM", it supports the full 2GB.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[TheLink]

If that's true, that's the sort of thing I'd want regulators to stomp on, not that "don't bundle IE" silliness.

Forcing Microsoft to bundle something other than IE in their own O/S is daft.

Much better to force Microsoft to not "encourage" companies like Dell to artificially cripple/hobble/handicap Microsoft's competitors. Or to do stuff like "Hey if you sell stuff with Linux, we'll charge you more for Microsoft Windows or Microsoft Office".

Re:"HP's Linux"

[jj110888]

The 1gig limit is likely there so that they can remove highmem.

Seriously, whats the problem with the vendor customizing the kernel for the machine? It would be nice if it was clearly documented and easy to switch to a himem kernel, but maybe it made a difference

Re:"HP's Linux"

[UltraMathMan]

Dell sells their Mini9 with an option to upgrade to 2GB of RAM. Am I missing something here?

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-9?c=us&cs=19&l=en&ref=lthp&s=dhs

Re:"HP's Linux"

[ericrost]

The machine performs better with the stock UNR installed on it, so why would you assume that?

Re:"HP's Linux"

[Tubal-Cain]

They also rebranded Firefox 3 as "Web Browser"

Here's a tip if you use Ubuntu:
sudo apt-get install abrowser.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[jgrahn]

The 1 GB limitation is probably due to the way they have the kernel compiled. The Linux kernel has a 1 GB limitation unless you have High Memory enabled. If I remember correctly, the kernel runs faster if High Memory is disabled, which is why Dell probably has the kernel configured that way.

Doesn't sound quite right -- unless you're doing really weird things, very little CPU is spent in the Linux kernel. Spending 0.2% or 0.3% of your CPU in the kernel isn't noticeable.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[ericrost]

the package was called firefox3 in apt-get/aptitude/dpkg/synaptic/Add/Remove Programs, but the icon was changed as was all branding inside the browser. Might even be in hot water for distributing a changed binary called firefox.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[whikket]

I wish I had mod points right now. I bought a mini 9 with 2GB ram last week, and I would be disappointed to find out I can only use half of it. I'll have to check when it gets here.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[feranick]

You will be fine. An update of a month or so ago fixed the RAM limit. You will enjoy the full 2GB.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[feranick]

Initially the kernel was compiled without the High memory enabled. Now it is. https://bugs.launchpad.net/dell-mini/+bug/286258

Re:"HP's Linux"

[default luser]

Hey, Intel does the same thing with their latest Atom chipset, Poulsbo. It artificially limits maximum memory to 1GB, even though other chipsets like the G945 Mobile can do more.

Welcome to the world of computers, where you artificially limit what your customers can do so you can maintain market segmentation.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[meringuoid]

Its a crippled kernel that only recognizes 1 GB of RAM.

It's a netbook. It only has 1GiB of RAM.

And if you're the kind of person who opens up and upgrades portables, you're perfectly capable of changing the kernel. In fact I bet the first thing you did on delivery of the computer was wipe it and install your favourite distro, wasn't it? So I don't really see that this is a major problem.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry you need to use HP to view this site.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[Anonymous Coward]

Fags sure seem butthurt about Ubuntu's brown colour and how it's holding back adoption, but as you can see Ubuntu is the market favourite by a mile. Somebody's not right, who do you think that is?

Re:"HP's Linux"

[ericrost]

Its perfectly capable of using 2 GB of ram, and apparently the 1 GB limit was old news, but Dell will only sell it to you with 1 GB of ram because of marketing agreements with Microsoft. Also, it HAD my favorite distro on it. I used it in that configuration to give it a chance, but it WORKED POORLY in the configuration THEY SOLD. Putting the UNMODIFIED distro that they screwed up so badly on it made it work well. I haven't yet upgraded the ram because with the UNMODIFIED version of the SAME DISTRO it works just fine with the minimum 512 MB of ram installed.

Re:"HP's Linux"

[Sj0]

My eyes GOT TIRED because you kept on CAPITALIZING all your words LIKE THIS. Plus, you're FACTUALLY INCORRECT in that Dell will SELL YOU a mini9 with 2GB of ram, so sayeth PREVIOUS POSTERS.

I DIDN'T buy a mini9, because I got an Aspire One INSTEAD. The latter was MUCH CHEAPER and I didn't have to WORRY about shipping.

OS X

[ponraul]

I'd conjecture that most of those are getting OS X installed on them.

Re:OS X

[gnu-user]

It seems a real stretch to suggest that the numbers of people installing a hacked OSX would be more then a small fraction of either:

• those who leave the default install alone
• Those who install a pirated XP

I'd venture that most of the slashdot crowd would install there favorite OS. I have no real feel for what the average Dell customer would do though, and I rather suspect that few of us here do.

It is credible to me that a significant portion of the 32% is XP installs, but it also seems likely to me that over half of that 32% remain a linux install. As a prior post indicated, the price point is not huge, which limits the the re-installs to the fully intentional pirates (i.e. you are fully intending to pirate when you purchase). I rather doubt the few bucks saved means that much to most Dell customers, and that most of that 1/3 at least intend to use Ubuntu when they purchase.

Re:OS X

[James_Duncan8181]

I'd conjecture not. Hey, we have the same amount of data!

So..

[Hognoxious]

What proportion of Dell Inspirons are running pirated XP? My guess - around 32%.

Re:So..

[je ne sais quoi]

Haha, good guess! Actually, believe it or not, I personally have seen one of these Dell netbooks running linux in the wild. That's the first time I saw someone other than myself running linux on a laptop. I got a chance to screw around with it some and as somebody else mentioned above, Dell messed up their Ubuntu install with about 400 MB or language files and other crap you don't need, which is especially weird since the thing only has a 4 GB hard drive. Other than that and the glossy screen, these netbooks aren't too bad looking. The hinge is pretty well designed and I don't mind the keyboard like the guys at laptopmag did.

Re:So..

[h4rr4r]

I use one as my work computer, to be fair I am a linux sysadmin. I do plug a mighty IBM type M keyboard into it, and have an external monitor.

If you get one install ubuntu or another normal distro, then add a 2GB stick of ram.

Re:So..

[Ed Avis]

Dell messed up their Ubuntu install with about 400 MB or language files and other crap you don't need

Doesn't that depend on what language you speak?

Re:So..

[je ne sais quoi]

Nah, you really only need one set of language files, your native language, or possibly two, but with a limited space drive you should be trying to save space any way you can.

Re:So..

[the_B0fh]

Don't you know, every American speaks english.

[ob old joke]
What do you call someone who speaks 3 languagues? Trilingual
What do you call someone who speaks 2 languages? Bilingual
What do you call someone who speaks 1 language? American

Re:So..

[Anonymous Coward]

What proportion of Dell Inspirons are running pirated XP? My guess - around 32%.

Yeah, and plus, I heard there's no such thing as Linux and it's, like, an urban legend by malcontents who want Windows but can't admit it. And stuff. Oh, and they're babies.

Re:So..

[godrik]

I have seen a couple of them in libraries and cafee. I have even met a girl with a linux on her machine that did not knew it was one. She told me, Microsoft made huge progress.

Re:So..

[SysPig]

In all seriousness...there are likely many that were bought with XP, to be replaced with Linux.

Reason being - there have been some tremendous sales in the Dell Outlet Store over the last couple of months, but they are usually loaded with XP. The refurb I picked up, was far cheaper than a new Ubuntu Mini 9, with more options - but came loaded with XP.

Re:So..

[Jherek Carnelian]

What proportion of Dell Inspirons are running pirated XP? My guess - around 32%.

Doubtful. All that anti-piracy work that MS has put into Windows really pays off in cases like this - only the relatively hardcore are going to go to the effort of getting a pirate copy of XP and then trust that it is not compromised with pre-loaded trojans and the like.

Re:So..

[morghanphoenix]

If I had a dollar for every time I've been asked if I was using Vista....

Re:So..

[mibus]

What proportion of Dell Inspirons are running pirated XP? My guess - around 32%.

But, how many are bought with XP and then loaded up with Linux?

I installed Ubuntu from a USB stick the moment* I left the store; you can't buy Linux-based computers from Dell in Australia.

(* No, seriously - I was waiting for my bus to arrive to take me home when I started :)

Re:So..

[drinkypoo]

Doubtful. All that anti-piracy work that MS has put into Windows really pays off in cases like this - only the relatively hardcore are going to go to the effort of getting a pirate copy of XP and then trust that it is not compromised with pre-loaded trojans and the like.

Wrong. They just ask their nerd friend for a known good copy. Thanks for playing though. Your FUD is beautiful, but not magical.

Re:So..

[Sj0]

As their nerd friend, I can't get the damn thing working right. That Windows Advantage crap has locked me out of updating legit copies of Windows, forget pirated ones.

Re:So..

[drinkypoo]

Well, some ill-mannered alleged windows experts claim that WGA is easily bypassed. Do a little searching around. There's also numerous volume license key releases in the wild. Personally I've never had a problem with a properly-licensed copy of Windows.

Re:So..

[Sj0]

Congrats. I've lost 3 legit copies of XP to their asinine DRM, and most vlk keys you can get on the internet are already forbidden.

Hey, it's not a problem for me. I pity Microsoft though, because they've long lost a customer over this shit.

It's a favorite for Hackintoshers

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to rain on the FOSS parade, but the Dell Mini 9 is a huge favorite among the Hackintosh crowd. No doubt a lot of them are buying the Linux version (after all, it's cheaper, why pay for XP?), but then immediately reformatting to install OS X.

Re:It's a favorite for Hackintoshers

[h4rr4r]

Oh no, maybe .001% of people are doing that.
The number of hackintoshes on planet earth is probably in the hundreds total.

Re:It's a favorite for Hackintoshers

[Anonymous Coward]

Based on the forums at Macresource.com, I'd guess Dell Mini Hackintoshes alone number in the hundreds at least. That doesn't even bring in the MSI Wind Hackintoshes (I have one of those), or the DIY desktop boxes.

Check out insanelymac.com, that population is growing by leaps and bounds. I doubt it'll ever be a serious challenge to Apple's sales (it's a big leap for anybody who isn't VERY comfortable with mucking around with hardware and software), but I'm very comfortable saying OSX86 installs are easily in the thousands by now.

Re:It's a favorite for Hackintoshers

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh no, maybe .001% of people are doing that.
The number of hackintoshes on planet earth is probably in the hundreds total.

Getting OS X installed on supported non-Apple-branded hardware is trivial. Apple has used lots of different commodity parts over the years, and lots of current hardware is compatible with current OS X drivers. Even hardware that isn't supported by OS X proper can be included simply by dragging a driver into the hacked disc image before burning it. There are hundreds of these drivers.

Also, the commercial vendors that got Apple's ire grew out of the hackintosh community.

Re:It's a favorite for Hackintoshers

[Jason Earl]

To my friends in the Apple Fanboi community I would like to offer a warm welcome to the install-it-yourself operating system slums.

No one cares what operating system your computer actually runs. They only care about the operating system you PAID for. This fact has worked against desktop Linux for years. When you install OS X on your Dell Mini all you are doing is making it less likely that Dell will have to offer support. Dell loves folks that install their own operating system on its hardware.

Not that I expect that there is a whole lot of raining going on. I would bet that there might be as many as 1,000 hackintoshes. There's probably twice that many Macbooks running Ubuntu. No one cares.

Re:It's a favorite for Hackintoshers

[Anonymous Coward]

You're very generous with your hackintosh estimate. I doubt it's anywhere near 1k.

Very good points.

Re:It's a favorite for Hackintoshers

[rbanffy]

Last week I had to install a recent Python in a 10.4 box. I had to _compile_ it 80's style.

Apart from that, OSX worked like charm and Aquamacs is a sweet environment to play with.

But, without a decent package manager, OSX is kind of clumsy to operate. I imagine I will have to apply patches to my 2.6 Python interpreter...

I recieved one today

[Tech90]

When I get home I will be playing with my new Mini 12. I have used Ubuntu since 4.10 and I hope Dell didn't muck it up too much or I will probably install Ubuntu remix on it. Netbooks are a good place to introduce Linux and It looks like Ubuntu will even have a better optimized netbook version in the months to come.

Re:I recieved one today

[Kiaser Zohsay]

You may not like the "Dashboard" (or whatever they call it) but its fine for the Mini 12 my kids use, and you can disable it to get to a normal Gnome desktop. Ours arrived in January still running 8.04, even though 8.10 had been out several months.

Re:I recieved one today

[h4rr4r]

Dell will only do 8.04 as it is a long term release. No big OEM is going to go with an OS that is really only going to be used for six months, heck all the cool kids are already running the 9.04 betas.

Re:I recieved one today

[kyle5t]

The real reason is that the GPU drivers have not yet been officially ported to xorg 1.5.

What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[jonaskoelker]

The problem are the other two thirds.

What? I'm sorry, What???

We're seeing Linux have 33% market share on a general-purpose computer. Yes, I know, it's a certain class of computer but what I driving at is that it's a machine that is suited for a wide variety of tasks (as opposed to only being a router, phone, DVR, text reader, etc.).

I'd love to live in a world where Linux had 33% market share on general-purpose computers. I think that trading one monopoly (MS) for another (Linux) is not a good thing, even if I like Linux.

What I'd much rather see is a wider variety of OSes and no one kind having a dominant position. That way, we can have more competition, more attention paid to being cross-platform and (hopefully) more interoperability.

I don't much care what everyone else uses as long as I have a good experience with Linux. As long as I can't make people stop hosting their videos in stupid flash wrappers (and gnash doesn't work very well) I'm dependent on flash working well enough on Linux. As long as there are no fast graphics cards with open-source drivers, I'm dependent on the proprietary ones.

So, I want the people in control of the software I have to run to be happy to treat the platform I run with some kind of respect.

But I don't want my choices imposed on anyone else. To healthy competition!

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[Chris Burke]

We're seeing Linux have 33% market share on a general-purpose computer.

A general-purpose consumer model, Tier 1 OEM computer, no less. FFS, what does it take to make someone happy these days? If you could have sent word of this back in time to me in 2000, I would have shit a joyous brick just to know such a future was possible.

I'd love to live in a world where Linux had 33% market share on general-purpose computers. I think that trading one monopoly (MS) for another (Linux) is not a good thing, even if I like Linux.

A Linux "monopoly" really wouldn't be the same thing as the Windows monopoly -- aside from being mostly POSIX, it's also open source, so interoperability isn't a big issue, and there can be competition just amongst linux distros. But yeah, I tend to agree. I'm not that worried, since I don't see a situation where Linux eats all of Window's marketshare, but MacOS doesn't take any for itself.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[nine-times]

But I don't want my choices imposed on anyone else. To healthy competition!

I agree with this. I may be in the minority here, but I don't want Windows to die. I just want Microsoft to be in a position where they have to fight fair because they don't have the influence to rig the entire market.

Global software monoculture wouldn't be such a good thing. It's always good to have valid competitors, so long as there's actually a level playing field.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[impaledsunset]

I think that trading one monopoly (MS) for another (Linux) is not a good thing, even if I like Linux.

Just to remind you that there is a difference between a free system and a proprietary one when we are talking about monopoly.

First, the word monopoly is connected to the market, and is tied to the vendor, not the program in question -- claiming that GNU/Linux has a monopoly would be like claiming that electricity has monopoly in the power market. It simply doesn't lead to any of the problems usually associated with monopoly in economics that I've studied or read about. It's about the _vendors_, not about the products, goods or programs.

However, if there was a monopoly of a single vendor of services for GNU/Linux (for example, Canonical), which is, given the nature of free software, impossible, it would still cause a lot less trouble than what you get from monopoly with abusive anti-competitive practices and vendor lock-in. In your hypothetical situation, you aren't replacing your broken leg with a broken arm, you are replacing it with a painful bruise.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with Linux only having 33% is that it is obvious that Dell is pushing XP. Obvious, you say? Well yes ... when you can pay $20 less Cdn and receive an XP machine with an 8GB SSD instead of the 4GB SSD with Ubuntu.

Don't believe me? http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-9?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[Fujisawa Sensei]

What? I'm sorry, What???

We're seeing Linux have 33% market share on a general-purpose computer. Yes, I know, it's a certain class of computer but what I driving at is that it's a machine that is suited for a wide variety of tasks (as opposed to only being a router, phone, DVR, text reader, etc.).

I'd love to live in a world where Linux had 33% market share on general-purpose computers. I think that trading one monopoly (MS) for another (Linux) is not a good thing, even if I like Linux.

So long as we have Gnome and KDE, not to mention the myriad of distributions; there will always be competition in Linux.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[Mateo_LeFou]

"FFS, what does it take to make someone happy these days?"

Maybe if it were easier to find?
Mini 9 Series Page:
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-9?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

No mention of MS-free systems.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[Hurricane78]

I think that trading one monopoly (MS) for another (Linux) is not a good thing, even if I like Linux.

I think, that by definition, Linux can not become a monopoly. There will always be multiple kernels/forks/patchsets, user spaces, desktop environments, office suites, and so on. You can always fragment as much as you want. I'd even take BSD and MacOS X into that group.

I think under GNU/Linux, a monopoly emerges, when there is something so good, that everybody uses it. In that case a monopoly is good.
If this would make attack on those systems more easy, it would not become a monopoly in the first place.

And that's where Windows had the problem. It was not dominant because it was the best choice.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[loudmax]

Hear, hear!

This is exactly the attitude we need. I run Gentoo Linux on my Acer netbook, but I'd be insane to say that Gentoo is for everybody. What's frustrating about Windows isn't the OS itself, it's the proprietary APIs and protocols that have become de facto standards. It isn't just open source that's locked out. There simply isn't any competition from commercial software vendors in the generic hardware market. (OS X isn't supposed to run on generic hardware, and Microsoft allows interoperability by selling the office suite for macs.)

Firefox made a huge impression on the web, even when it had less than 10% market share. Safari, Chrome, Opera, Konkeror, all of these can be pretty much expected to just work thanks to open standards that were largely forced on the web by Firefox adoption.

The promise of Linux isn't that everyone will run Linux, it's that regular users will have a real choice who they buy their system. Bring on the BSDs, Haiku OS, and more commercial derivates, and life will be much easier for us Linux users as well.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[Tubal-Cain]

I don't want Windows to die. I just want Microsoft to be in a position where they have to fight fair because they don't have the influence to rig the entire market.

They don't seem very capable of adapting, and adapting is the only way for them to not die without being able to rig the market.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[kwandar]

Mod this up. Not only does the XP machine cost $20 less and have twice the size SSD, it also comes with a full gig of memory versus a half gig for the equivalent Ubuntu version.

By my estimation that puts the same XP machine at $100 less than the equivalent Ubuntu machine? What weird economics are at work at Dell?

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[couchslug]

I'd be delighted if Windows died.

Open and Free competition would still be "competition", and to judge by OS and distro diversity there would _remain_ plenty of eager competitors.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as I can't make people stop hosting their videos in stupid flash wrappers (and gnash doesn't work very well) I'm dependent on flash working well enough on Linux.

LinuxMint has the 64 bit version of flash from Adobe, and I have yet to encounter any problems with its usage.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[Temposs]

I started from http://www.dell.com/ and navigated to the Dell Mini 9 page again, and the Ubuntu systems appear for me:

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-9?c=us&cs=19&l=en&ref=lthp&s=dhs

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[rec9140]

>. I may be in the minority here, but I don't want Windows to die.

I want them to die die die die die! Healthy competition between Linux Distros, Solaris, and BSD is all we need.

winslobber can die.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[jonaskoelker]

What weird economics are at work at Dell?

Some wild speculation:

• They're being subsidized by Microsoft
• They're having to spend money to get "This Linux thing" working right, and they're making those who benefit from that learning pay the price.
• Large-scale advantages apply more to Windows boxes since Dell is dealing with them on a larger scale.
• CowboyNeal is setting the prices

I hope this gets the thought train rolling ;-)

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[jonaskoelker]

I want [Windows] to die die die die die!

Actually, so do I. I was just being moderate to whore karma ;-)

On a serious note: I'd like to see free software be able to give everyone an optimal* computing experience so that I can justify wanting everyone to use only free software.

That happening would mean the death of Windows. The death of Windows is just in itself not very high on my list of priorities.

* No, not just good, but optimal: I'd be disappointed if there's a trade-off is between quality and freedom. For a certain kind of computer user (the /.-reading kind), there isn't. Apparently, for 33% of $(dict minilaptop) users Linux is the best deal too. I think we as a community have earned a pat on the back :)

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[kwandar]

Thought train was rolling and I'll buy either:

1) subsidized by Microsoft (I think its called anti-competitive behaviour); or
2) Cowboy Neil setting prices.

It would be hard to convince me that 1 yr support(outsourced to Canonical or whomever) is the cost of XP AND the $20 difference in price. Equally hard to convince me that rolling a version for your laptop is any more difficult with Ubuntu (where I'm sure they'd get free assistance from a Canonical for support) than it is with XP.

As for large scale advantages with Windows boxes, the only one that I'm aware of is being paid by MS.

Good news is that Ubuntu is 1/3 of sales, although I'm not sure why? What idiot wouldn't take better hardware and a $20 discount - Microsoft can be uninstalled.

Microsoft must be frightened to have to buy market in this fashion - that is about a third of the computer's price they would be rebating?!

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[mcnellis]

Linux provides it's own competition. Itself. There are hundreds (thousands?) of distros.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[swillden]

They don't seem very capable of adapting, and adapting is the only way for them to not die without being able to rig the market.

I don't know about that. They have shown they can adapt when forced to, but it just doesn't happen often. Mostly, they get to drive the market whichever direction they want, so that's what they do.

Microsoft has a lot of smart, talented people working for it, and I have no doubt that given the proper motivation they could fix their broken culture enough to become reasonably competitive even on a level playing field.

Of course, in the OS space the field is not going to be level. As F/LOSS operating systems gain greater traction, the only two real problems with them -- lack of drivers and lack of commercial application software (note that neither lack is nearly as extreme as naysayers like to believe, but both are real) -- will evaporate. That will then leave commercial OS vendors trying to figure out how to compete with FREE in a commoditized space.

But Microsoft is capable of making other software, so even when Windows and Office dry up, they'll find a way to survive.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[Anonymous Coward]

This just in! OSX has a 99.9% marketshare of all Macs!

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[Kjella]

A general-purpose consumer model, Tier 1 OEM computer, no less. FFS, what does it take to make someone happy these days?

For my part, that they showed up more in actual usage data like NetApplication's trends. Everybody agrees Macs are on the rise and that's reflected. Supposedly there's a big bunch of Linux netbooks being sold, but where are they? In the last year Macs have increased by 2.5% while Linux has increased 0.2%. I mean if we got 33% marketshare on a tier 1 OEM computer model something just doesn't add up. Yes, their data might be biased but not moreso that a real increase in linux use should show up in the statistics even though the absolute number was off. Despite all the possibilities for blocking and faking and whatnot, I doubt that all those people buying Dells now are geekier and better at hiding than the ones that show up already. At least some fraction should show up.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[richlv]

assus seems to have gone the same way - linux machines have twice smaller (as in capacity) hdd/ssd.
that kinda pisses me off. is there any vendor that produces good quality hardware, offers nice international warranties and actually sells linux netbook cheaper than the windows version ?
asus lost a sale or two with that strategy...

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[howlingmadhowie]

oh i'd love to see a gnu monopoly on the desktop and servers. if all computers out there had a working gnu userspace, working with them would be a lot easier. for purely technical reasons windows just doesn't cut it for me. i cannot do the things i want to do with it. i say gnu userspace because i rarely interact with the kernel directly.

as for the monopoly, i can't see a gnu monopoly being a bad thing. much like a state monopoly on the rail network is actually a good thing (as we have seen in great britain)

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[drinkypoo]

I mean if we got 33% marketshare on a tier 1 OEM computer model something just doesn't add up.

Since there is no information on that page (and the help is 404) that explains how those statistics are generated, I must assume that they (like Geico's determination of how much insurance I should pay) are constructed out of 100% bullshit.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[Chris Burke]

It's just that specific model. Netbooks are the new hot thing, but they aren't exactly the biggest chunk of the market as of today. So it's not like it's 33% of their Inspiron line or something. So I don't find the math to be implausible on its face, especially when we're talking about comparing a sales number with a completely different metric.

In any event, just having that Tier 1 support, and having it apparently work out well in that line, is something to get excited about.

Oh, and btw, that 0.2% absolute delta between April 08 and January 09 is actually a 33% increase in Linux market share.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[Sj0]

If you consider the numbers, market statistics cited by most companies are blatantly wrong.

Netbooks made up about 5% of new PC sales last year, and linux is installed on about a third of those. This strongly suggests that ignoring all other segments of the market, linux has more than 1% of the PC market.

Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining?

[jtgd]

I may be in the minority here, but I don't want Windows to die.

You are in the minority here.

Optimistic at Best

[leeosenton]

Some points to note as a Mini owner and occasional contributor at www.mydellmini.com: 1)Minis are capped with a 16gb solid-state drive if you choose WindowsXP; you can get up to a 64gb drive if you choose Linux 2)Many geeks are buying bare naked Minis with 512mb memory and 4gb drives for $250, and then equipping them with aftermarket runcore 64gb drives and 2gb of memory (another $200 for upgrades). To get the price low, they buy the Linux system and then load Windows or OSX (I know, kinda sick but they are talking about it on mydellmini.com) Bottom line: I think these numbers are skewed by geeks and bargain hunters.

Re:Optimistic at Best

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had a lot of trouble with installing ubuntu post 7.10 on old hardware, or using the server installer. I wonder if Ubuntu just doesn't care that much about the market (old hardware / servers), becuase Debian uses the SAME installer and I've never had a problem with the Debian installer.

Re:Optimistic at Best

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a strange use of the word skew. To me the connotation of the word skew would mean that the numbers are artificial or inaccurate.

If Dell is selling 50% more of a product because it appeals to a certain market segment, that would indicate a pretty important market segment. That isn't really skewing the numbers. That is revealing a demand that many may not have realize existed.

Re:Optimistic at Best

[tknd]

Correct. I'm one of the first owners of the first eee 900 (mine has a celeron). I purposely bought the linux version because it came with a larger SSD for the same price. I have the stock linux install a shot but it was too anemic for my needs. Later I tried ubuntu but it was too slow. Now I mostly use windows XP on it.

Dell also probably has a somewhat more tech savvy crowd since most of the sales are through a website. These aren't the same people that walk into bestbuy and don't know the difference between types of memory (as in hard disk and ram).

Re:Optimistic at Best

[jridley]

It is skewing if they're buying the machine the cheapest way they can get it, then installing OSX or XP. I am absolutely certain that happens in many cases. Maybe MOST cases.

Re:Optimistic at Best

[Patch86]

The post is "1 of 3 Dell...sold with Linux".

The numbers aren't skewed. The numbers are exactly right. The interpretation that 1 of 3 Dell netbooks are running Linux might be skewed, but thats not really in question.

How many netbooks run XP/Linux/OSX is pretty impossible to work out. You're right to point out that Linux models are cheaper and so are bought as bare-bones PCs (good for Hackintosh, pirated XP, Win7 betas, BSD, whatever). Its also been pointed out that all Dells reconditioned netbooks seem to ship with XP, so that muddies the water even more.

We just have to take the omens we're given.

Re:Optimistic at Best

[jmorris42]

> It is skewing if they're buying the machine the cheapest way they can get it, then installing OSX or XP.

Perhaps... but not in the way you think.

Remember two things:

1. OEMs have to provide 100% of the tech support when they sell an OEM copy of Windows.

2. Support is a major cost center. On a netbook a single support incident can wipe out the entire profit margin and it is pretty much a sure thing that by call two the are wishing they never made that sale.

So with these facts in mind lets consider the probable thinking at a major OEM at the idea of customers buying the Linux version and loading their own Windows. Downside is they lose the profit margin on the OEM Windows license, a pretty small amount. They also lose any co branding dollars for loading the crapware that usually accompanies an OEM Windows preload. Considering the price gap it is safe to assume they are losing less than $50 in profits. Now consider the upside, once a customer nukes the Linux preload all vendor support ends and the odds are good they won't be trying to return the unit unless the hardware is really broken. Sounds like at least a tie, probably a longterm win.

Re:Optimistic at Best

[Spit]

The opposite has been true for many years, in fact it's still very difficult to buy a notebook for running linux without chalking up a windows sale.

One must also consider, the low price versions can only be low-priced because they don't ship with the microsoft tax. It's your choice not to use the shipped linux afterwards, but that's what freedom affords you.

Re:Optimistic at Best

[bootup]

That makes me sick. To think people are actually putting MS Windows on a system. Such a disturbing thought. It is bad enough we GNU/Linux users are forced into getting MS Windows on notebooks if we want anything half decent hardware wise. I can see why they would load Mac OS X since nothing similar exists in the Apple world-although not why they would want Mac OS X in the first place.

Re:Optimistic at Best

[Anonymous Coward]

Look at the flip side of things... there are Linux users buying (for instance) the Eee 1000HD (or whatever it is), which has Windows XP, and installing Linux on it. I almost did this, but decided to wait a while on a netbook to see if one more to my liking (ie more like a MobilePro 780) comes to market.

Does CentOS or Fedora core work on these things?

[Ex-Linux-Fanboy]

Does CentOS or Fedora core work on these things?

Ubuntu has been a royal headache for me that makes me run to the Linux Haters blog; I was wondering if other people who have had issues with Ubuntu (here are the issues I have had) have had a better experience with Fedora/CentOS/whatever (I like RedHat distributsion more than Ubuntu; sudo is for wimps; real mean use "su").

- Sam

Re:Does CentOS or Fedora core work on these things

[h4rr4r]

Get over it. I use the hedrat at work and it sucks. Yum is a garbage package manager and their repositories contain little to nothing.

Re:Does CentOS or Fedora core work on these things

[Ex-Linux-Fanboy]

./configure; make ; make install

I don't know why Ubuntu users are scared by this simple process. It gives you a more updated version of the software package in question. Yeah, there's a bunch of sudo apt-get whatever-dev, but you know, if you can't compile a program, perhaps you should go back to Windows.

Plug...

[ghostis]

Got my wife an Ubuntu Mini 9 (up-spec'd) for her writing. She loves it. She writes in OO.o on it, NeoOffice on the Mac, and Google Docs elsewhere. I recently started using it to do math work (python, octave, lyx), since it fits on the desk nicely next my texts and weighs less than most of 'em. Wow. I can't recommend it enough. If you have large hands though, wait for the Mini 10 or get the 12. The keys on the Mini 9 are pretty small ;-).
 
-Ghostis

Re:Plug...

[ghostis]

Also, I zapped the cutesy Dell menu (it's a menu setting) and the yahoo toolbar package on day one.

Re:Does CentOS or Fedora core work on these things

[Anonymous Coward]

Compiling shit is easy. Resolving dependencies is an O(b^d) (breadth and depth) problem I'd rather automate, especially when it involves futzing around Google figuring out what libraries I need to get installed. Or worse yet, missing some.

Hackintoshes ?

[olddotter]

Anyone using one of these as a hackintosh, I'd like to know about the experience.

Re:Hackintoshes ?

[bconway]

Yes, it works well, it's fast, and all hardware is supported. Installation is done with a retail Leopard disk, so it's a lot cleaner than most hackintoshes, and it's safely updateable.

How To: Hackintosh a Dell Mini 9 Into the Ultimate OS X Netbook

Re:Does CentOS or Fedora core work on these things

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't compile a program. Thank god someone on Slashdot has finally given me permission to tell Linux to go fuck itself. Too bad, I was starting to look forward to getting it on a notebook. Time to go back to m

Re:Does CentOS or Fedora core work on these things

[drinkypoo]

I despise redhate so I can't give you any advice there, but I have found Ubuntu to have stability and driver problems. (As in, they broke drivers that work elsewhere.) My laptop runs Windows XP and my server now runs Debian Lenny.

Re:Does CentOS or Fedora core work on these things

[h4rr4r]

Cute, but it is a lot faster to just install the precompiled binaries. When I do need to compile my own say php, I can get all the dependencies without compiling those too.

It is not fear that makes people not want to do that, it is the horror of having to remember to update 10s of apps on hundreds of servers when a security bug is found. Then the horror of spending days doing that.

I would expect a manufacturer to bundle drivers

[WillAffleckUW]

It's not a distro responsibility to make sure all the devices have current drivers, it's the manufacturer's job to do that.

DEMAND THEY DO IT.

And accept nothing less.

Mini 9 owner. XP delivered, Ubuntu reloaded.

[naughton]

When I got mine, they weren't shipping with Linux. Because the cost was too good to pass up ($149 with 3GB Ram and 20GB SSD), I took delivery and reloaded it with Ubuntu. Works great. I've had no problems.

Re:Mini 9 owner. XP delivered, Ubuntu reloaded.

[h4rr4r]

BULLSHIT!
That board will not take 3GB of ram, 2GB is the max, furthermore there is only one ram slot so how the fuck would you get 3GB of ram?

It definitely does

[Anonymous Coward]

VS 6.0 works like a charm.

Oh, if you meant a SPECIFIC VERSION, you should have said so (and I note that you were one of those who said that Vista Capable was right: it COULD run Vista. That it couldn't run *any* version was irrelevant. So in this case, VS *does* work under wine. The version is irrelevant. Right?)

Re:It definitely does

[Timothy Brownawell]

and I note that you were one of those who said that Vista Capable was right: it COULD run Vista. That it couldn't run *any* version was irrelevant.

Link please? That does not sound like something I'd say (well, unless perhaps I was being sarcastic).

Delivery rant

[Anonymous Coward]

Has anybody actually ordered one of these things? I did, about a month ago. It's just been released from the factory in China, and is now working its way to me. I've been promised various delivery dates.

Dell need to look into this aspect of their business. A month is just too long to wait, and I can walk into any store and buy a competitor product off the shelf.

Re:Does CentOS or Fedora core work on these things

[Ex-Linux-Fanboy]

You only have to compile on one machine. After that, I can think, off the top of my head, of two options:

rsync

scp (Make sure you don't encrypt your key on a secure machine so you can run this in a script without having to type in your passphrase every time)

Or, if that bothers you, you can either roll your own RPM or use one of the various repositories out there on the net.

My issue with Ubuntu is that they release a beta but call it "stable". I don't want to be a beta tester of broken software. I want software that works. This is why I like CentOS; it works as long as I'm using compatible hardware (cue my rant of how it's a pain to backport new drivers to older kernels).

Re:Does CentOS or Fedora core work on these things

[h4rr4r]

Try using 8.04 not 8.10.
This is why they have LTS and non-LTS versions.

Yes, I could do that, and then the vendor will tell me to go fuck myself when something does not work, how fantastic. How about there being a real reason in the enterprise world for supported versions of apps?

Re:Does CentOS or Fedora core work on these things

[Ex-Linux-Fanboy]

the vendor will tell me to go fuck myself when something does not work

Canonical will tell you the same thing if you do a sudo apt-get for anything not on the short list of packages they support.

Anyway, you're reframing the issue. At first you were complaining that RedHat sucks because there aren't that many RPMs out there; I gave you several solutions to this issue. Now you're shifting the subject and saying that the issue is that there aren't that many supported applications for RedHat.

- Sam

Which one?

[Anonymous Coward]

1 of 3 Dell Inspiron Mini Netbooks Sold With Linux

Which one of the three had Linux?

Four out of five statisticians say the fifth one is the odd man out.

Finally! 2009 is...

[flattop100]

the year of Linux on the nettop!

a Linux sale is a Linux sale

[christian.einfeldt]

Assuming that it is true that loads of people are installing Microsoft Windows XP on their Linux-powered Dell Inspiron netbooks (which I'm not sure is true, since the original article didn't mention that), it doesn't really matter. A Linux sale is a Linux sale. When the Dell managers evaluate their future strategies, how much will they consider whether XP was installed post-sale? Very little.

And the same is true for Dell's competitors. If Dell's competitors see that they can move product in a down market by installing Linux on the machines, will they spend much time contemplating whether XP is installed on the machines? Probably not.

Most OEMs have small margins on their sales of all but the upper-end machines. Volume is what matters. Hence the power of Microsoft Windows. At least until today. For OEMs and pretty much everyone in the channel, volume is what matters. As of today, they will know that Linux distros have proven that they can drive one-third of that volume. That is what really matters.

And it gets better. As Linux-related desktop sales increase, you will see more and more third party vendors, such as 2dBoy, port their products to Linux, as maker of the popular indy game World of Goo has recently done.

Volume is king. And now Linux is seeing some significant volume sales.

Re:a Linux sale is a Linux sale

[blakelarson]

Yes, until Microsoft puts a stop to it because it's enabling more people to "steal" Windows. Then they can raise hell and have a legitimate-sounding excuse to re-monopolize the pre-installed OS market.

And yet...

[berend botje]

So 1/3 of the netbooks are running Linux. Fine. That's pretty amazing actually as I still can't get one without XP from the Dell site.

That's in the Netherlands (you know, Amsterdam and stuff), by the way.

Re:And yet...

[mallie_mcg]

Same for Australia - nothing but Microsoft Windows from Dell for any consumer grade machine, which is frustrating as a customer, there is no way I'm going to be paying for something I don't want.

Re:And yet...

[ZerdZerd]

If you really want you can ask for a computer without and OS from Dell. I don't think they'll cut the price though, so buying and disagreeing with the EULA is probably better.

Re:Mini 9 owner. XP delivered, Ubuntu reloaded.

[naughton]

Whoops. Sorry about that, you're right. The reason that I got such a screaming deal was that I bought it at the same time as an Inspiron 1535. I got confused. Only the 1GB of RAM, which is the maximum. Also, before you rip me a new one, I got the maximum of 16GB SSD (not 20GB). Because I can tell that you're a stickler for precision, I'll include the full inventory. After I called them up, they waived the shipping charges, but I don't expect you to believe that.

1 224-2669 Inspiron 910 Intel Atom processor N270, 1.6GHz, 533Mhz512K L2 Cache
1 311-9256 Obsidian Black Color with Gloss Finish
1 311-9255 1GB,DDR2,533MHZ,1 DIMM
1 320-7125 8.9 inch Wide Screen WSVGA TLLCD
1 320-7124 Intel Graphics Media Accelerator (GMA) 950
1 341-7610 16GB Solid State Drive (mini-card Module/PATA)
1 420-9249 Genuine Windows XP Home Edition
1 420-5769 Internet Search and Portal
1 420-8223 Dell Video Chat
1 420-7622 DELL SUPPORT CENTER 2.0
1 310-8624 You have chosen a Windows XP System
1 420-9191 Box.net online backup and filesharing 1.0
1 420-7468 ADOBE ACROBAT READER 8.1 DIM/INSP
1 430-3223 Base LCD Assembly
1 430-3219 Wireless 802.11g Mini Card
1 313-6896 Integrated 0.3M Pixel Webcam
1 410-1160 McAfee Security 9.0, 30-day Subscription, for Dell Inspiron / Dimension
1 312-0775 32WHr 4-cell Battery
1 412-0148 No ISP requested
1 420-8051 Microsoft Works 9.0, English For Inspiron
1 992-2067 Dell Hardware Warranty Plus Return To Depot, Initial Year
1 990-7989 1 Year Limited Warranty and Mail-In Service,Notebook
1 991-0320 Type 12- Mail-InService, 24x7 TechnicalSupport, Initial Year
1 960-2780 Warranty Support,Initial Year
1 950-3337 1 Year Limited Warranty
1 988-6059 No Warranty 2 and 3
1 900-9987 Standard On-Site Installation Declined
1 313-7127 Base LCD Assembly in Black

Product Subtotal: $150.88
Shipping and Handling: $9.99
Tax: $10.05
Product Total: $170.92

Not so impressive.

[Mister Whirly]

"1 of 3 Dell Inspiron Mini Notebooks sold with Linux"

"1 of 3" and not "1 in 3"? Big deal. So Dell sold 1 notebook with Linux. How is that going to put a dent in Microsoft's market share?

Re:Not so impressive.

[dkf]

"1 of 3" and not "1 in 3"? Big deal. So Dell sold 1 notebook with Linux. How is that going to put a dent in Microsoft's market share?

You've missed the big news there, which is that the economy has tanked so badly that Dell has only sold three notebooks! It's right there in the title!

Will someone please do Dell a favor and increase their sales by 33% by buying one of their notebooks?

...AND immediately

[jridley]

had a pirated copy of XP installed on them. Well, I bet 50+% of them did. And another half of those, within a month.

The reason is...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you build a mini on Dell's website with Windows XP, it limits you to 1GB ram and 16GB SSD drive due to some Netbook license restriction from Microsoft... anything over those specs requires Vista? If you build it on the website and select Linux you magically get 2GB RAm and 64GB SSD options.

I'm sure most people select Linux and throw whatever they want on it AFTER it arrives.

Microsoft cares (ironic, right?)

[Immerial]

Why else would they have a deals in place with Dell to nerf the netbooks, spend the energy to bring down the Windows 7 requirements, and keep Windows XP around just for netbooks?! If you aren't in the Microsoft OS you lose all the lock-ins they worked so hard for- Office formats, multimedia DRM, workflow ecosystem.

Microsoft Office sales start to go away when people realize that Open Office works for most folks and more files that aren't using proprietary formats means they need to start working with them better... which means other formats become viable... you no longer need MS Office and the cycle is broken.

They need people to stay in their ecosystem!

Re:Microsoft cares (ironic, right?)

[Jason Earl]

I am not saying that Microsoft doesn't care about Linux on netbooks. Microsoft absolutely cares. It's last quarter total sales were up but revenues were down 8% because a significant portion of Microsoft's sales are for the heavily discounted Windows XP netbook SKU.

Dell's numbers basically confirm the trend. People are looking for less expensive options. Even with a heavily discounted XP a third of Dell's mini sales are not putting any money at all in Microsoft's pocket because Linux is cheaper. If the economy gets worse then this trend is only going to accelerate.

If enough people find out that they can get their work done with Free Software then Microsoft is done. Almost no matter what happens the Free Software genie is out of the bottle now. Microsoft's hardware partners know that people will buy Linux-based gizmos, and they know that Microsoft will cave on price if the alternative is to let Linux take over a niche. Things are bad enough that Microsoft is apparently going to be selling Windows 7 Starter edition in the first world.

My point was that no one (not even Dell or Microsoft) care about the folks that have installed OS X on these machines. The only company that cares about OS X on Dell Minis is Apple, and you can bet that they are looking into ways to shut these people down. The Apple fanbois can think that Hackintosh sales matter if they want, but all Hackintosh sales do is strengthen Linux on these devices.

Just wait until 7 of 9 Netbooks Sold With Linux...

[CYDVicious]

That'll be the day ;)

Alternative: Liberated (or "pirated") XP

[bboxman]

Say... You want to buy one of these notebooks, and don't want to pay for XP. Ticking the Unbuntu tick box saves 40-50$ (just double-checked vs. the dell site). You then install XP yourself. I'm sure drivers are available from the Dell website (or pherpas even come as a kit). Dell doesn't have a "no-OS" (barebones) option.

I'm an avid Linux user (writting this post on a Hardy Heron Ubuntu, actually). However, I'm also realistic.

On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with copying bits. Laying ownership to a sequence of bits is just plain silly.

Re:Alternative: Liberated (or "pirated") XP

[Repossessed]

There is one major problem with this idea...

How many computer users actually have the technical expertise to install XP? 1%? 2%? Not many at any rate.

Re:Alternative: Liberated (or "pirated") XP

[Erikderzweite]

Note that most users don't have USB CD-ROM drive to install pirated XP on such netbook in the first place. And installing XP from USB stick or via network... I better stick with Linux instead for it is much easier.
In case of netbooks the argument "they just buy it cheaper to install pirated Windows" doesn't hald.

Re:Alternative: Liberated (or "pirated") XP

[Tubal-Cain]

Hardy Heron

Bleh.
(written from Jaunty)

Re:Alternative: Liberated (or "pirated") XP

[CAIMLAS]

I thought I agreed with you on your comment, but then I thought about it for a moment. People who do the whole "warez" thing, and who have been doing it for years, know how to work stuff like this.

As a teen, I was pretty heavily into warez. Everyone who was 'into' computers was. It's just what you did, and how you got your software when you were a kid. So how would a person go about putting XP on a laptop that has no CDROM?

I've installed Windows (2003) on a system with SATA but no floppy drive. I don't remember exactly how I did it, because I seem to recall that USB was not available within the setup, either. But I do remember it was a huge pain in the ass.

Things have gotten easier since then, much easier, with the widespread use of LiveCDs. Windows fans have learned a lot from the Linux community, and BartPE helped a lot in that regard. A cursory look at various torrent sites tells me that there is "live" XP for installation on USB media.

This would, I believe, make the installation of Windows to the internal disk on a netbook fairly trivial. In fact, one of the first search results was "Windows XP sp3 Lite for ASUS eee PC". Seems like XP is getting a fairly wide acceptance/installation on netbooks to me.

Re:Alternative: Liberated (or "pirated") XP

[Anonymous Coward]

Right! anyway if you ever end with windows XP, you can always download the latest "stable" release at http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu
and put in on a usb stick. just use http://lubi.sourceforge.net/unetbootin.html tu put it on a usb key, or use any other way that fits you. you can aver try it from windows (from a bit to much slower than the actual clean install, because it is installed on your windows, fat or NTFS partition.. you can also use(and i prefer this one) use the live-usb option (unetbootin or other ways)

Re:Alternative: Liberated (or "pirated") XP

[drinkypoo]

Hardy Heron

Bleh.
(written from Jaunty)

Double bleh (written from Lenny)

Ubuntu seems to want to bloat and break. Every release makes more promises and fulfills less old ones than the prior. You can say good riddance but I scurried back to Debian (well, there is a new release after all) and I'm so much happier I could fall off my chair.

Re:Alternative: Liberated (or "pirated") XP

[Sj0]

I dunno. I'm a fairly technical person, and when the XP install on my netbook croaked, I went with Ubuntu until I bought a USB dvd-drive.

So why not sell linux on other models?

[Anonymous Coward]

If 33% of Dell's netbooks are sold with Ubuntu, then maybe Dell will finally start treating Ubuntu as a legitimate option for more of their computers.

Right now only 3 "home" laptop computer models (XPS M1530, XPS 1330, and Inspiron Mini 9n) and one "business" laptop (Latitude D630n) are available with Ubuntu out of the box.

I had to buy my Latitude E6500 with winblows and either suck up the windows tax or decline the EULA. I also had to do quite a bit of investigating to ensure that my hardware would be linux compatible (as I got my laptop right when the E6500 came out). I would have been a lot happier if Dell sold me my laptop with Ubuntu installed or at least said if the computer was Ubuntu compatible.

The kernel is fully capable to run at 2GB

[feranick]

It came with an update almost two months ago. Check your facts before you post.

There are updates available.

[feranick]

Again, updates are available, at a slower rate than generic ubuntu, but still. Please substantiate your claim of "no updates", otherwise stop the FUD.

Re:not-insignificant?

[RobBebop]

not-insignificant? You found a clever way of saying significant. You sly dog.

But I disagree that a significant percent of Mini 9 owners are running OS X.

Re:Does CentOS or Fedora core work on these things

[rbanffy]

Would you care to explain how Ubuntu has been a royal headache for you? You know, it you have some specific valid complain, people can fix it.

Of course, if it's not a valid complain, well... You can fix it.

Ubuntu is running sweet here in almost all my desktops and on a handful of servers (the rest run Debian and have run it for what now appear to be ages) and it never, ever, gave me any problem. Motherboards, NICs and RAID controllers died but no single problem was because of the OS. Even the ssh key problem (and that was quite shameful) was a non-event here: a couple keys had to be recreated and that was mostly all it took.

And, BTW, real man use "sudo -i" or, in Red Hat-likes "sudo su -". "su" is so 80s...

In some cases it's exactly the opposite

[Anonymous Coward]

Writing this with an Acer Aspire One, the one with 120GB or bigger disk. It came with Windows XP and there was no Linux version available at the time of purchase.

So I got it and installed Ubuntu 8.10 with Wubi, which is what I use regularly. I only had to do a couple of hacks to get Wifi properly (and discover that the sound driver believes that the microphone has 2 input channels)

I kept XP just in case, and because the work VPN does not mesh with anything Linux. But in a few months they will be changing to something hopefully more friendly. By then, bye XP.

But my Acer will be counted as an XP license....

Australia

[Anonymous Coward]

In Australian, we can't buy a Dell Mini 9 with Linux. It has to come shipped with XP, which we then blow away.

I'm sure Microsoft love the fact they have 100% market share of Windows on Australian Netbooks.

So why aren't they selling it with Linux here?

[shermozle]

No Linux version here in Australia. If it's accounting for 1/3 of sales, why the hell isn't it available?

I certainly won't buy the Windows version, but I'd definitely consider the Linux version.

Re:So why aren't they selling it with Linux here?

[Static]

The Dell salesdroid at one of their product stands wasn't interested in seeing if it could make it happen for a single sale, so I challenged to tell someone higher up about this complaint. I think I'll make a point of doing that, now, every time I walk past one.

That's the point of FREE software, genius

[Nicolas MONNET]

I think that trading one monopoly (MS) for another (Linux) is not a good thing, even if I like Linux.

The problem with a monopoly is the absence of freedom.

If you use Microsoft product, and you don't want to deal with them anymore, you're fucked.

If you use RedHat, and you don't want to pay them, well you just stop paying them and you keep everything and you can still make copies.

Mod parent insightful: !exists *Linux* monopoly

[jonaskoelker]

You, sir, deserves more mod points.

I was about to say something to that effect, but had decided my post was long enough already.

I'm not sure I agree that it's impossible for any one vendor to get into a monopoly position. What if no other vendor comes up with (or sticks to) a viable business model? "No one got fired for buying support from Canonical."

Then again, whenever I try to think about how a Linux(-based) monopoly would look, everything I come up with seems to be contrived and highly unsustainable. We'll see if it ever comes to be...

Re:Does CentOS or Fedora core work on these things

[buchner.johannes]

Yum is a garbage package manager

Why?

their repositories contain little to nothing.

Maybe you didn't enable the right repository to get third-party and cutting edge stuff? Usually distributors tend to be cautious and conservative about packages (less initial issues).

If "XP is such a giant piece of crap "...

[trickotomy]

I would truly dread meeting the beast that shat out Vista!

Noteworthy: the Mini 9 is fanless

[Lazy Jones]

It may not have the best keyboard as I found out after purchasing one, but the fact that it is completely fanless (thus noiseless) and the battery lasts 5 hours easily with WLAN on, makes more than up for it ...

My next netbook must have a cell-modem... XP only?

[schwaang]

I've been using an OLPC XO for over a year as my first netbook. It has been handy, but what I want more than any other feature upgrade is a cell modem.

Now there might be a USB version I could dongle off the XO, but I want something like a Dell Mini 9 with a built-in cell modem that *just works*. Last I checked, Dell only offered those for XP configurations. I would be a new Linux netbook sale otherwise.

Re:Just wait until 7 of 9 Netbooks Sold With Linux

[howlingmadhowie]

they would truly be liberated from the borg.

What linux netbooks need is an app store!

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux netbooks are great until the user wants to install new apps on it. Linux netbooks should have their "iPhone appstore" like system to give new users the ability to easily find and install new apps on their netbook.

When googling for "linux app store", a site called allmyapps ( http://www.allmyapps.com ) appears... it looks promising but still a bit young imho...

Linux: Windows of the poor?

[loufoque]

We have done a very good job explaining to folks what Linux is.'

They mean they've made people believe Linux is a cheap alternative to Windows, but not as good?

Awesome...

[hesaigo999ca]

I guess that means linux now has a 33% market share...!

Configuration Advantages

[Smilodon]

Didn't see this posted previously, but keep in mind that only the Linux configuration of the Dell allows the buyer to order the larger Solid-State hard drive and more than one meg of memory.

I think this means that anybody planning a dual-boot or even XP machine may be buying the Linux one to get more memory and "disk" space.

Not that a lot of folks aren't sticking to Linux as well (in general, netbooks have been good to Linux), just sayin'...

Nice, if you can get Dell to actually send it

[mattfigroid]

I ordered one from Dell on 2/12, my order still shows as pending, they haven't charged my credit card and the estimated delivery has been bumped back to 3/9. All I get from e-mail inquiries is canned responses, never an answer to my question.

Dell Mini 9 Ubuntu owner, I'm very happy!

[Piankeshaw]

I own the Dell Mini 9 with Ubuntu installed. I chose Ubuntu because of performance. The boot time is much faster in real-world comparison and the webpages load faster. That is not Dell stats, but in side-by-side comparison. Also, I have not had any snags with printers, wireless, webcams. The only complaint I can make is the lack of decent webcam programs in Linux. I think netbook vendors will find that actual buyers of netbooks are different than intended. I bought the Dell Mini because it is actually portable, unlike my HP laptop that has to weigh 10 pounds. With 32 GB flashdrives now available for cheap, who needs a large hardrive? Anyway, I'm very satisfied.

Finally! 2009...

[jtgd]

the year of Linux on the netbook.