Yes, I've seen Serenity. In fact I own it, its a good movie.
They thought they had a cure for social strife, which easily kills more people that contagious diseases do..
I've also seen "The Last Man on Earth" and "The Stand". If we can go to fiction land the pendulum swings both ways.
In the real world something like smallpox has killed more people in a day than all the vaccines administered in the last 100 years combined.
Even if the odds of the vaccination killing you are 1:10,000,000 and the odds of the disease killing you are 1:1,000,000 you common sense dictates you should take the vaccination.
The people who mandated them will say "sorry we didn't know," but the parents should be able to say to them "fuck you, you will pay horrifically for what you did to our kids, you miserable social engineers."
And when the kids catch these horrible diseases what then?
The parents will say, "Sorry we didn't know, we thought we knew best." Do the kids then get to say to the parents: "fuck you, you will pay horrifically for what you did us" ?
There is NO expectation of privacy when you are in public. Security cameras, when placed in common public areas are no problem. Heck, I can video tape you all I want on a street corner, as long as it is for my own private amusement.
Yeah, if walk through your camera shot in a public place, that's one thing. But setting up a network of camera's to track everything I do, everywhere I go from the moment I step out my front door until I make it back again... that's a whole other ballgame.
Rebooting is a chore. Once people start up, they don't want to shut down to start up another application. It's not what they are used to. On the other hand, if this were done as a VM where the Linux machine were to boot and they installed Windows XP in a VirtualBox or some other VM, then that might be acceptable. Then they would have their safer, virus-free environment for email and web browsing and then a VM to host the applications they need to run. This stuff works really well.
RTFA.
First, your average business traveller doesn't want to un Windows in a VirtualBox.
Second, these aren't really 'dual booting' in the usual sense. These have an embedded linux, that's almost instant on, running on a low power ARM chip.
Windows is on the hard drive, and runs of the Core2Duo or whatever the main cpu is.
So when you boot, you can choose instant on, embedded linux, running cool with long battery life on the ARM, or you can launch the full blown windows install on the intel cpu.
Theft hurts people. Piracy may harm business opportunity. It's completely different.
I agree they are different crimes. I agree the ethics of the two are different.
My point however, was that its not the ethical differences that keep a lot people from stealing. Sadly, its the consequences that keep a lot of people from stealing.
If people could get away with theft as easily as they get away with infringement, there would be a lot more theft.
Plus, you know, someone actually loses a car, where as Microsoft will still have Windows.
Yes, that's an important difference for the ethical argument. But I'm not making an ethical argument.
The simple reality is that if one -could- steal a car and get away with it at the same rate one can get away with software piracy, a lot more people would be stealing cars. Sadly, its not ethics holding people back, its consequences.
Actually, the practical difference is pretty simple. If I steal a car, I am depriving the original owner of the property. If I steal software, I'm depriving a faceless, soulless, underhanded company of a few bucks.
So steal one that's insured off a new/used car lot and then stealing a car amounts to depriving a faceless souless companies faceless soulless underhanded insurance company of a few bucks?
Now, does that make software piracy right or justified? Um...no. Does that mean that software piracy IS NOT STEALING? YES IT DOES.
I'm the first to agree. However, Your missing the point. I'm not arguing ethics here.
My point here wasn't that software was the "same as stealing" ethically, but rather that the primary reason you'll do one and not the other has nothing whatsoever to do with ethics, and everything to do with consequences.
If you -could- steal a car off a lot easily with practically zero risk of being caught, and could rationalize that your just hurting a couple faceless souless companies, a lot more people -would-.
Even if the youtube services is free to the government, the content belongs to the people and giving Google control over it is definitely a payment because you are forced to see their adds and visit their site. There should be an open bid process just like any other government contract and the best bid should win. I wonder if this is the change we can believe in? Stacking unnecessary pork that doesn't do what it intended into a stimulus package and no bid contracts to campaign supporters. The only change here is that people don't seem to care now that Bush and Cheney is out of office.
Your absolutely right. Its not perfect. Its big step in the right direction. For making the video available at all they should be congratulated. We can push to having it hosted on a 100% gnu/linux or freebsd box in ogg vorbis later. Or even push to ensure its in the public domain, so anyone who wants to can get and host copies of the video themselves. One step at a time.
Seriously... I agree with everything you said... but at the same time, complaining feels a bit shrill. Like Obama signing a signing bill to shut down gaunatamo and then complaining that they just used the first airline that came to mind to transport the prisoners out instead of opening up a bidding process.
If that's how you pirate, or how you think piracy works, you've lost the plot. The people I know that do pirate things use a web browser and torrent software, and can bearly configure their printer.
Yeah, I know; it looks like I got cross-threaded. I was reading another thread about Windows "PE" where they were talking about how they pulled it off usenet, and thought it was this. My bad.
Even so, its one thing to pull an mp3 torrent... its something else to do a bootable CD. If we're talking about people who can barely configure their printer, even if they manage to torrent an iso, they aren't going to know what to do with it. And even if they get XP installed they'll still have to download drivers for all the integrated bits and what-not.
OH come on man! Name me anyone outside of IT that slipstreams their own disks?
So, knowing how to navigate usenet (and what usenet is), and the nettiquette there so you get the real goods instead of a disk full of viruses, knowing and using the specialized software to pull fragmented binaries of off usenet, knowledge of what a.rar even is (and what to do with it), reconstituting it into an iso or nrg or daa (and knowing what those are), and burning it to disk...
And the guy who can do all that can't slipstream his own disk? Oh come on man!
So your options are pay twice, or get an IT degree. That's not reasonable.
Any particular reason you edited out the simple and free option? Keep your original recovery media. Only recently have they stopped shipping discs with a lot of the cheapest PCs, but even there they have a 'make your own recovery disk' tool that usually prompts you within the first few days of using it and a pamplet in the box telling you to use it. If you don't want to pay twice or get an IT degree, follow the stupid wizard and make your recovery disks.
Microsoft will have to have a pretty big change in ideology for them to ever compete with piracy.
Yeah, but most things are like that. Want a car?
Buy one? Ugh, work for a few years to save enough money, then go in plunk it down, and drive out. Lease one? Ugh, plunk money down every month, and end up owning nothing? Steal one? Walk up to a car you like, get in, drive away.
Toyota will have to have a pretty big change in ideology for them to ever compete with piracy.
What's the difference?
Stealing a car is harder than downloading something from usenet? Barely, especially if you aren't that particular about the car. And spending a few hours learning how to steal a car will 'pay off' far quicker than earning enough to buy one.
The big difference is that because stealing a car is theft, and having a stolen car is fairly visible, and its something the police actually pay some attention to, odds are if you try to use this method for your daily commute you will surely eventually be caught.
So effectively the practical difference between stealing cars and downloading pirate oses is primarily one of enforcement. The only thing that's going to motivate people like you not to pirate OSes is if the odds of being caught and punished were significantly raised.
"Windows XP Users will be eligible for a free upgrade to Windows Vista if they purchase a Vista-enabled PC starting October till the time Vista formally hits the store shelves."
"We have been told by our suppliers that a Microsoft technology warranty will apply to all copies of NT Operating systems bought after 1 January, 2000 and before the launch date (expected to be 17 February, 2000). So new system purchasers within those dates will have a free right of upgrade."
They did it with Windows Mobile 2003 from PocketPC 2002
"PDAs bought between 23 May and 23 September can be upgraded to the updated OS for free."
I'm having trouble digging up articles about upgrade rights or free upgrade programs from 2k to XP, and I honestly don't specifically remember there being a program for that one, but the point stands; while it might not be universally true, its certainly not uncommon for Microsoft to offer a free or 'cost of shipping' upgrades to people who buy a product in the weeks or months immediately before a new release is expected.
Wrong. XP doesn't have any SATA drivers. I think Dell's OEM version of XP SP3 does, but not standard XP SP?.
I dunno what to tell you. I've been running SATA exclusively for years now, and as recently as a week ago I did an XP install on an intel DG45ID motherboard onto a SATA hard drive, from an OEM XP package. (same as you'd get from newegg). Its been literally YEARS since I had to 'press a key to load 3rd party controller drivers' while installing onto a SATA hard drive.
...this is Microsoft's way of telling you that they feel guilty about fooling you into believing that. It's really more of an apology to the people who weren't fooled, but one implies the other.
Nice troll attempt. Were you aware Apple does this with its holy OS X too, and we all know the Steve doesn't feel guilt. So how do you explain that?
No. This is microsofts way of telling you that if you buy a computer with Vista in the months immediately prior to the launch of Windows 7, they will send you a free ugprade. Same as they've done with every other version of windows, and same as a truckload of other software vendors have done for the last couple decades.
Luckily, PE had a great version without any CD-key crap or driver mayhem. It's rather sad that the best Windows versions are made by pirates.
Or you could have just used a newer genuine XP oem disk. SP2 and SP3 disks have SATA drivers, maybe even SP1 disks. If all you had was an original XP cd, you can slipstream your own XP SP3 disk pretty easily.
Or your friend could have made his recovery disk set and kept it after he bought the laptop, so that when this eventually rolls around, he's all set, and you wouldn't have had to fumble around for something that worked.
Or you could have ordered a replacement recovery disk set from the OEM. Granted its usually 15-20 bucks or so.
It matters for a debate on relative hardware value. If you were comparing honda wheel nuts to porsche wheel nuts, and the porsche ones are triple the price, you might conclude that the porsche ones are 'over priced'. However, since the Porsche ones are made of Titanium instead of Steel -- you can still argue whether or not you actually need titanium ones, but its no longer a case of simply paying more for the same thing.
Same goes for a TN vs IPS/*VA panel. If the Mac comes with an IPS and the Dell with a VA that significantly impacts the debate on value. You can still argue whether you need IPS or not, but the hardware value proposition changes. However, the Dell 24 doesn't have a TN panel, so that whole argument is moot.
I have an iMac and a bigger/better quality LCD for my PC. If there's a difference in the pannels between the two, I don't really care wether for gaming or movies or otherwise.
Are you -sure- you have a bigger / better quality LCD for your PC? What model do you have? You generally have to special order or go out of your way to find the better quality technology. Pretty much everything at the average best buy will be TN, regardless of price.
And if you see an IPS side by side with a TN its like night and day. Compare them when looking at them obliquely (not head on), sit down on the floor and look up at it. (The IPS will be readable, the TN will look almost inverted.) These differences aren't too big a deal if you only use it looking head on, but if it doubles for watching movies... if you've got 5 or 6 people watching, and kids on the floor looking up... the TN is a complete disaster.
The IPS also has markedly better richer color, better greens especially, and no dithering (because its 8 bit instead of 6 bit). This isn't crucial for everyday web browsing, but of course is for any sort of professional work.
Not everyone needs an IPS; and the TN is more than adequate for most people. But if you do shell out for an IPS, like a Porsche, you are getting something extra for your money.
$500 to avoid windows is cheap at twice the price.
Paying an extra $500 just to spite microsoft is hurting your bottom line a lot more than it hurts theirs. And you can avoid windows by just formatting and installing linux when it arrives. That avoids windows and keeps the $500 in your pocket.
They could refer to the company charter, which often has a phrase where the primary objective of the company is "to maximize profits and increase shareholder value". If that is the case for Microsoft (I have no reason to not think so here), the directors are violating a primary tenant of their charter if they spend money frivolously. From this it would be the basis of a lawsuit by violating the basic charter of the company and its legal right to exist.
A tech company investing in R&D, or even doing a bit of skunk works is not "frivolous". It is precisely aligned with a long view goal of maximizing profits and increasing shareholder value. The directors have a lot of leeway if this is all you have got to sue them on.
The 2407WFP and more recent 2408WFP use PVA panels from Samsung, which are cheaper than S-IPS panels. This also isn't the norm, as their consumer screens are all TN
I thought the big dell ultrasharps were all IPS. Now that I'm digging it appears some are and some aren't. With changes between revisions in some cases.
Yes their consumer screens are all TN. (Although this is the direction apple seems to be taking to now.)
The specs on the Dell are actually very awful
No worse than the specs on Apple's imac online specs sheet with respect to the screen. Its not like Apple claims its an IPS. Sure the last one someone took apart was an IPS... who knows what next month will bring. Apple's substituted screens in revisions too you know.
Directly from their site: Wide Viewing Angle (up to 89 degrees). What does that even mean
Seriously? It means +/-89 degrees from viewing it head on, which is 178 degrees total (89x2). Lots of manufacturers have represented viewing angles like this. They likely don't specificy horizontal vs vertical because nearly all IPS and VA panels are the same: 178 in both horizontal and vertical.
90 degrees means not even 45 degrees each side in the usual notation. So before saying people are WRONG capitalized, maybe you should actually try to know about the product you're trying to push.
Stop acting 12. I admit when I was wrong. You should too. You are wrong about it being a TN panel. Deal with it. Or do you seriously plan to persist with your theory that its an 89 degree total viewing angle?
Another thing, the Dell is made of cheap plastic, the iMac is made of glass and Aluminium. You're going to contradict that too ?
1) How much difference do you think the material choice makes to the price? Aluminum is.65 cents a pound. If the entire imac were solid aluminum, it would cost $20 bucks. Tooling/production is more expensive for aluminum too so actually making the laptop is a bit more, but then apple only makes like 5 different chassis, and doesn't change them for years, so it easily balances out with the multitude and constant revisions dell has. I don't think it costs as much more to make as you seem to think.
2) How much performance difference do you think an aluminum imac makes? Does aluminum convey any benefit whatsoever? In a laptop its increased rigidity and low weight makes it a useful material to squeeze size down a couple mm... but what difference does it make in a 24" desktop PC?
Out of curiosity what if Apple used gold instead of aluminum, the price would sky rocket, and it would be completely pointless. Would you defend paying extra for a gold PC too?
The iMac 24" comes with an S-IPS panel screen. Your Dell comes with a cheap TN Film.
Interesting theory. Too bad its clearly WRONG.
The 20" model has 160 degree viewing angle, and is clearly a TN panel... but then so is the Apple 20" so no winner there.
I can't say for sure what the XPS one 24" comes with but its got the expanded viewing angles that means its using at least a *VA panel. For all I know it could be IPS too, especially since one of Dell's more popular 24" panels is the 2407WFP which is IPS. I wouldn't be surprised if they based their XPS one 24 around it.
Either way your TN panel theory is dead.
There's your price differential right there.
As its an IPS or *VA panel, its in the same ballpark as as the imac screen.
It's also nice you falsely claimed the Mac didn't have 802.11n and got modded up anyway.
1) Yes, I misread the wifi specs when I skimmed it. My bad. But seriously its a minor point, and correcting it has no real impact on the argument I made.
2) You just falsely claimed the XPS one 24 has a TN panel. Its a bigger error and was the chief argument in your post. How do you think the mods should treat you?
Right, because $2449 and $2199 are "not in the same ballpark".
-sigh-
Look at the whole picture.
The dell has everything the apple has (except for the OSX to VistaU substitution). It also gives you bluray, and a tuner, and a better camera, and a better cpu, and a better video card. So lets put a retail value on all that stuff... bluray reader/dvdrw combo... $150, 'better' camera $20, tuner $80, cpu $50, video $50... so say $350.
So the Dell is $250 less, and has $350 worth of extra hardware. Meaning the difference is effectively $600. That's 25%. That's not in the same ballpark.
You know what else isn't in the same ballpark? OS X and Vista.
They are different but they are both in the same ballpark.
If you had two identical iBooks in front of you, IDENTICAL, except one had 4GB of RAM and was running only Vista and one had 2GB of RAM and OS X, which one would you use?
The Vista unit hands down. Pure economics: buying a copy of OSX is MUCH cheaper than upgrading the RAM and buying a copy of Vista.
But set that aside for a moment... even if I wasn't going to dual boot it:
I also do like games (Fallout 3, Bioshock,...) I don't much care for most of iLife so it has little value to me. Open Standards for the win.
The only OSX-only app I really actually prefer over anything on Windows is iPhoto. But I prefer Visual Studio to Xcode (and Eclipse). Everything else I really care about use is cross platform, except my accounting software.
That said, I do most of my gaming and programming on my desktop, so my laptop really could be either. I'd prefer the Mac simply to have more exposure to the OS. And my previous laptop was in fact an iBook that I used until a couple years ago.
My current laptop is an older toshiba running kubuntu, but I didn't buy it, after my ibook died, the toshiba fell into my lap for free but with a fried hd. So I fixed it up and installed ubuntu, and its serving me well. I was planning on buying an macbook as my next laptop... although I am currently REALLY impressed with the touchscreen HPs that launched a few months ago, so I'm less sure now what I'll be buying.
Also, what other software does the Mac and the Windows computer come with?
Nothing much worth anything to me in either case. OpenOffice + FF + Thunderbird + Citrix + Remote Desktop client and I'm basically set for my laptop. Like I said, I'm getting on fine with Kubuntu.
mod parent up. I want answers to BOTH those questions.
Everyone says 'get a lawyer'. How much is this going to cost.
I've always assumed they were expensive, and paying a lot just to have someone to call is quite frankly, too expensive. In the last 10 years, I've never needed one. How much would have having one, even just a basic, "starter model" someone competent and cheap, but no frills... what would that have cost me?
And the second question... how does one find a competent one? No one in my social circle has one... so a friends referral is out.
Dell runs Windows or Linux. Mac runs OS X, Windows and Linux...all native.
I didn't forget it.
First... you want to add Windows to your Mac?... add another ~$200 to it.
Face it, unless you want/need OSX, that 24" Apple imac is shit value for the hardware.
Of course, if you want/need OSX then it doesn't matter how shit the value is because you don't have any real choice. Its either get an Apple or strike out into the land of Hackintosh. (But remember, if you do strike out into the land of hackintosh, it runs native -- "no VMs are needed")
No need for VMs.
Ironic that you bring that up actually. Because while you might not NEED VMs, if you happen to WANT VMs instead of triple booting, you might as well get the Dell, because you Apple won't let you VM OSX even on a Mac. (except for OSX server) and you have to strike out into the land of hackintosh anyway.
Keep your TV tuner, I'll stick with my Mac.
And the quad core cpu, and the faster video card, and the bluray drive, and the better webcam, oh yeah, and the $250 bucks cash.
I get ALL that extra. You give all that up for the priviledge of booting OS X with Apple's blessing. Was it worth it?
You must REALLY value OS X. You'd be paying a $500-$600 premium to be able use it.
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Yes, I've seen Serenity. In fact I own it, its a good movie.
They thought they had a cure for social strife, which easily kills more people that contagious diseases do..
I've also seen "The Last Man on Earth" and "The Stand". If we can go to fiction land the pendulum swings both ways.
In the real world something like smallpox has killed more people in a day than all the vaccines administered in the last 100 years combined.
Even if the odds of the vaccination killing you are 1:10,000,000 and the odds of the disease killing you are 1:1,000,000 you common sense dictates you should take the vaccination.
The people who mandated them will say "sorry we didn't know," but the parents should be able to say to them "fuck you, you will pay horrifically for what you did to our kids, you miserable social engineers."
And when the kids catch these horrible diseases what then?
The parents will say, "Sorry we didn't know, we thought we knew best." Do the kids then get to say to the parents: "fuck you, you will pay horrifically for what you did us" ?
Just curious.
There is NO expectation of privacy when you are in public. Security cameras, when placed in common public areas are no problem. Heck, I can video tape you all I want on a street corner, as long as it is for my own private amusement.
Yeah, if walk through your camera shot in a public place, that's one thing. But setting up a network of camera's to track everything I do, everywhere I go from the moment I step out my front door until I make it back again... that's a whole other ballgame.
Rebooting is a chore. Once people start up, they don't want to shut down to start up another application. It's not what they are used to. On the other hand, if this were done as a VM where the Linux machine were to boot and they installed Windows XP in a VirtualBox or some other VM, then that might be acceptable. Then they would have their safer, virus-free environment for email and web browsing and then a VM to host the applications they need to run. This stuff works really well.
RTFA.
First, your average business traveller doesn't want to un Windows in a VirtualBox.
Second, these aren't really 'dual booting' in the usual sense. These have an embedded linux, that's almost instant on, running on a low power ARM chip.
Windows is on the hard drive, and runs of the Core2Duo or whatever the main cpu is.
So when you boot, you can choose instant on, embedded linux, running cool with long battery life on the ARM, or you can launch the full blown windows install on the intel cpu.
They used to have so much caché,
I don't usually do corrections, but the word you are looking for is "cachet".
Theft hurts people. Piracy may harm business opportunity. It's completely different.
I agree they are different crimes. I agree the ethics of the two are different.
My point however, was that its not the ethical differences that keep a lot people from stealing. Sadly, its the consequences that keep a lot of people from stealing.
If people could get away with theft as easily as they get away with infringement, there would be a lot more theft.
Plus, you know, someone actually loses a car, where as Microsoft will still have Windows.
Yes, that's an important difference for the ethical argument. But I'm not making an ethical argument.
The simple reality is that if one -could- steal a car and get away with it at the same rate one can get away with software piracy, a lot more people would be stealing cars. Sadly, its not ethics holding people back, its consequences.
Actually, the practical difference is pretty simple. If I steal a car, I am depriving the original owner of the property. If I steal software, I'm depriving a faceless, soulless, underhanded company of a few bucks.
So steal one that's insured off a new/used car lot and then stealing a car amounts to depriving a faceless souless companies faceless soulless underhanded insurance company of a few bucks?
Now, does that make software piracy right or justified? Um...no. Does that mean that software piracy IS NOT STEALING? YES IT DOES.
I'm the first to agree. However, Your missing the point. I'm not arguing ethics here.
My point here wasn't that software was the "same as stealing" ethically, but rather that the primary reason you'll do one and not the other has nothing whatsoever to do with ethics, and everything to do with consequences.
If you -could- steal a car off a lot easily with practically zero risk of being caught, and could rationalize that your just hurting a couple faceless souless companies, a lot more people -would-.
Even if the youtube services is free to the government, the content belongs to the people and giving Google control over it is definitely a payment because you are forced to see their adds and visit their site. There should be an open bid process just like any other government contract and the best bid should win. I wonder if this is the change we can believe in? Stacking unnecessary pork that doesn't do what it intended into a stimulus package and no bid contracts to campaign supporters. The only change here is that people don't seem to care now that Bush and Cheney is out of office.
Your absolutely right. Its not perfect. Its big step in the right direction. For making the video available at all they should be congratulated. We can push to having it hosted on a 100% gnu/linux or freebsd box in ogg vorbis later. Or even push to ensure its in the public domain, so anyone who wants to can get and host copies of the video themselves. One step at a time.
Seriously... I agree with everything you said... but at the same time, complaining feels a bit shrill. Like Obama signing a signing bill to shut down gaunatamo and then complaining that they just used the first airline that came to mind to transport the prisoners out instead of opening up a bidding process.
If that's how you pirate, or how you think piracy works, you've lost the plot. The people I know that do pirate things use a web browser and torrent software, and can bearly configure their printer.
Yeah, I know; it looks like I got cross-threaded. I was reading another thread about Windows "PE" where they were talking about how they pulled it off usenet, and thought it was this. My bad.
Even so, its one thing to pull an mp3 torrent... its something else to do a bootable CD. If we're talking about people who can barely configure their printer, even if they manage to torrent an iso, they aren't going to know what to do with it. And even if they get XP installed they'll still have to download drivers for all the integrated bits and what-not.
OH come on man! Name me anyone outside of IT that slipstreams their own disks?
So, knowing how to navigate usenet (and what usenet is), and the nettiquette there so you get the real goods instead of a disk full of viruses, knowing and using the specialized software to pull fragmented binaries of off usenet, knowledge of what a .rar even is (and what to do with it), reconstituting it into an iso or nrg or daa (and knowing what those are), and burning it to disk...
And the guy who can do all that can't slipstream his own disk? Oh come on man!
So your options are pay twice, or get an IT degree. That's not reasonable.
Any particular reason you edited out the simple and free option? Keep your original recovery media. Only recently have they stopped shipping discs with a lot of the cheapest PCs, but even there they have a 'make your own recovery disk' tool that usually prompts you within the first few days of using it and a pamplet in the box telling you to use it. If you don't want to pay twice or get an IT degree, follow the stupid wizard and make your recovery disks.
Microsoft will have to have a pretty big change in ideology for them to ever compete with piracy.
Yeah, but most things are like that. Want a car?
Buy one? Ugh, work for a few years to save enough money, then go in plunk it down, and drive out.
Lease one? Ugh, plunk money down every month, and end up owning nothing?
Steal one? Walk up to a car you like, get in, drive away.
Toyota will have to have a pretty big change in ideology for them to ever compete with piracy.
What's the difference?
Stealing a car is harder than downloading something from usenet? Barely, especially if you aren't that particular about the car. And spending a few hours learning how to steal a car will 'pay off' far quicker than earning enough to buy one.
The big difference is that because stealing a car is theft, and having a stolen car is fairly visible, and its something the police actually pay some attention to, odds are if you try to use this method for your daily commute you will surely eventually be caught.
So effectively the practical difference between stealing cars and downloading pirate oses is primarily one of enforcement. The only thing that's going to motivate people like you not to pirate OSes is if the odds of being caught and punished were significantly raised.
Actually, I've never seen Microsoft do this with any other version of Windows
Really? They did it with Vista:
http://labnol.blogspot.com/2006/08/free-windows-vista-upgrade-coupons-for.html
"Windows XP Users will be eligible for a free upgrade to Windows Vista if they purchase a Vista-enabled PC starting October till the time Vista formally hits the store shelves."
They did it with Windows 2000:
http://www.bristol.ac.uk/WorkingGroups/Users/CUC/2000/csejan00.htm
"We have been told by our suppliers that a Microsoft technology warranty will apply to all copies of NT Operating systems bought after 1 January, 2000 and before the launch date (expected to be 17 February, 2000). So new system purchasers within those dates will have a free right of upgrade."
They did it with Windows Mobile 2003 from PocketPC 2002
"PDAs bought between 23 May and 23 September can be upgraded to the updated OS for free."
I'm having trouble digging up articles about upgrade rights or free upgrade programs from 2k to XP, and I honestly don't specifically remember there being a program for that one, but the point stands; while it might not be universally true, its certainly not uncommon for Microsoft to offer a free or 'cost of shipping' upgrades to people who buy a product in the weeks or months immediately before a new release is expected.
Wrong. XP doesn't have any SATA drivers. I think Dell's OEM version of XP SP3 does, but not standard XP SP?. I dunno what to tell you. I've been running SATA exclusively for years now, and as recently as a week ago I did an XP install on an intel DG45ID motherboard onto a SATA hard drive, from an OEM XP package. (same as you'd get from newegg). Its been literally YEARS since I had to 'press a key to load 3rd party controller drivers' while installing onto a SATA hard drive.
...this is Microsoft's way of telling you that they feel guilty about fooling you into believing that. It's really more of an apology to the people who weren't fooled, but one implies the other.
Nice troll attempt. Were you aware Apple does this with its holy OS X too, and we all know the Steve doesn't feel guilt. So how do you explain that?
No. This is microsofts way of telling you that if you buy a computer with Vista in the months immediately prior to the launch of Windows 7, they will send you a free ugprade. Same as they've done with every other version of windows, and same as a truckload of other software vendors have done for the last couple decades.
Luckily, PE had a great version without any CD-key crap or driver mayhem. It's rather sad that the best Windows versions are made by pirates.
Or you could have just used a newer genuine XP oem disk. SP2 and SP3 disks have SATA drivers, maybe even SP1 disks. If all you had was an original XP cd, you can slipstream your own XP SP3 disk pretty easily.
Or your friend could have made his recovery disk set and kept it after he bought the laptop, so that when this eventually rolls around, he's all set, and you wouldn't have had to fumble around for something that worked.
Or you could have ordered a replacement recovery disk set from the OEM. Granted its usually 15-20 bucks or so.
But its not like you don't have lots of options.
Does it even really matter?
It matters for a debate on relative hardware value. If you were comparing honda wheel nuts to porsche wheel nuts, and the porsche ones are triple the price, you might conclude that the porsche ones are 'over priced'. However, since the Porsche ones are made of Titanium instead of Steel -- you can still argue whether or not you actually need titanium ones, but its no longer a case of simply paying more for the same thing.
Same goes for a TN vs IPS/*VA panel. If the Mac comes with an IPS and the Dell with a VA that significantly impacts the debate on value. You can still argue whether you need IPS or not, but the hardware value proposition changes. However, the Dell 24 doesn't have a TN panel, so that whole argument is moot.
I have an iMac and a bigger/better quality LCD for my PC. If there's a difference in the pannels between the two, I don't really care wether for gaming or movies or otherwise.
Are you -sure- you have a bigger / better quality LCD for your PC? What model do you have? You generally have to special order or go out of your way to find the better quality technology. Pretty much everything at the average best buy will be TN, regardless of price.
And if you see an IPS side by side with a TN its like night and day. Compare them when looking at them obliquely (not head on), sit down on the floor and look up at it. (The IPS will be readable, the TN will look almost inverted.) These differences aren't too big a deal if you only use it looking head on, but if it doubles for watching movies... if you've got 5 or 6 people watching, and kids on the floor looking up... the TN is a complete disaster.
The IPS also has markedly better richer color, better greens especially, and no dithering (because its 8 bit instead of 6 bit). This isn't crucial for everyday web browsing, but of course is for any sort of professional work.
Not everyone needs an IPS; and the TN is more than adequate for most people. But if you do shell out for an IPS, like a Porsche, you are getting something extra for your money.
$500 to avoid windows is cheap at twice the price.
Paying an extra $500 just to spite microsoft is hurting your bottom line a lot more than it hurts theirs.
And you can avoid windows by just formatting and installing linux when it arrives. That avoids windows and keeps the $500 in your pocket.
They could refer to the company charter, which often has a phrase where the primary objective of the company is "to maximize profits and increase shareholder value". If that is the case for Microsoft (I have no reason to not think so here), the directors are violating a primary tenant of their charter if they spend money frivolously. From this it would be the basis of a lawsuit by violating the basic charter of the company and its legal right to exist.
A tech company investing in R&D, or even doing a bit of skunk works is not "frivolous". It is precisely aligned with a long view goal of maximizing profits and increasing shareholder value. The directors have a lot of leeway if this is all you have got to sue them on.
The 2407WFP and more recent 2408WFP use PVA panels from Samsung, which are cheaper than S-IPS panels. This also isn't the norm, as their consumer screens are all TN
I thought the big dell ultrasharps were all IPS. Now that I'm digging it appears some are and some aren't. With changes between revisions in some cases.
Yes their consumer screens are all TN. (Although this is the direction apple seems to be taking to now.)
The specs on the Dell are actually very awful
No worse than the specs on Apple's imac online specs sheet with respect to the screen. Its not like Apple claims its an IPS. Sure the last one someone took apart was an IPS... who knows what next month will bring. Apple's substituted screens in revisions too you know.
Directly from their site: Wide Viewing Angle (up to 89 degrees). What does that even mean
Seriously? It means +/-89 degrees from viewing it head on, which is 178 degrees total (89x2). Lots of manufacturers have represented viewing angles like this. They likely don't specificy horizontal vs vertical because nearly all IPS and VA panels are the same: 178 in both horizontal and vertical.
90 degrees means not even 45 degrees each side in the usual notation. So before saying people are WRONG capitalized, maybe you should actually try to know about the product you're trying to push.
Stop acting 12. I admit when I was wrong. You should too. You are wrong about it being a TN panel. Deal with it. Or do you seriously plan to persist with your theory that its an 89 degree total viewing angle?
Another thing, the Dell is made of cheap plastic, the iMac is made of glass and Aluminium. You're going to contradict that too ?
1) How much difference do you think the material choice makes to the price? Aluminum is .65 cents a pound. If the entire imac were solid aluminum, it would cost $20 bucks. Tooling/production is more expensive for aluminum too so actually making the laptop is a bit more, but then apple only makes like 5 different chassis, and doesn't change them for years, so it easily balances out with the multitude and constant revisions dell has. I don't think it costs as much more to make as you seem to think.
2) How much performance difference do you think an aluminum imac makes? Does aluminum convey any benefit whatsoever? In a laptop its increased rigidity and low weight makes it a useful material to squeeze size down a couple mm... but what difference does it make in a 24" desktop PC?
Out of curiosity what if Apple used gold instead of aluminum, the price would sky rocket, and it would be completely pointless. Would you defend paying extra for a gold PC too?
The iMac 24" comes with an S-IPS panel screen. Your Dell comes with a cheap TN Film.
Interesting theory. Too bad its clearly WRONG.
The 20" model has 160 degree viewing angle, and is clearly a TN panel... but then so is the Apple 20" so no winner there.
I can't say for sure what the XPS one 24" comes with but its got the expanded viewing angles that means its using at least a *VA panel. For all I know it could be IPS too, especially since one of Dell's more popular 24" panels is the 2407WFP which is IPS. I wouldn't be surprised if they based their XPS one 24 around it.
Either way your TN panel theory is dead.
There's your price differential right there.
As its an IPS or *VA panel, its in the same ballpark as as the imac screen.
It's also nice you falsely claimed the Mac didn't have 802.11n and got modded up anyway.
1) Yes, I misread the wifi specs when I skimmed it. My bad. But seriously its a minor point, and correcting it has no real impact on the argument I made.
2) You just falsely claimed the XPS one 24 has a TN panel. Its a bigger error and was the chief argument in your post. How do you think the mods should treat you?
Right, because $2449 and $2199 are "not in the same ballpark".
-sigh-
Look at the whole picture.
The dell has everything the apple has (except for the OSX to VistaU substitution). It also gives you bluray, and a tuner, and a better camera, and a better cpu, and a better video card. So lets put a retail value on all that stuff... bluray reader/dvdrw combo... $150, 'better' camera $20, tuner $80, cpu $50, video $50... so say $350.
So the Dell is $250 less, and has $350 worth of extra hardware. Meaning the difference is effectively $600. That's 25%. That's not in the same ballpark.
You know what else isn't in the same ballpark? OS X and Vista.
They are different but they are both in the same ballpark.
If you had two identical iBooks in front of you, IDENTICAL, except one had 4GB of RAM and was running only Vista and one had 2GB of RAM and OS X, which one would you use?
The Vista unit hands down. Pure economics: buying a copy of OSX is MUCH cheaper than upgrading the RAM and buying a copy of Vista.
But set that aside for a moment... even if I wasn't going to dual boot it:
I also do like games (Fallout 3, Bioshock, ...) I don't much care for most of iLife so it has little value to me. Open Standards for the win.
The only OSX-only app I really actually prefer over anything on Windows is iPhoto. But I prefer Visual Studio to Xcode (and Eclipse). Everything else I really care about use is cross platform, except my accounting software.
That said, I do most of my gaming and programming on my desktop, so my laptop really could be either. I'd prefer the Mac simply to have more exposure to the OS. And my previous laptop was in fact an iBook that I used until a couple years ago.
My current laptop is an older toshiba running kubuntu, but I didn't buy it, after my ibook died, the toshiba fell into my lap for free but with a fried hd. So I fixed it up and installed ubuntu, and its serving me well. I was planning on buying an macbook as my next laptop... although I am currently REALLY impressed with the touchscreen HPs that launched a few months ago, so I'm less sure now what I'll be buying.
Also, what other software does the Mac and the Windows computer come with?
Nothing much worth anything to me in either case. OpenOffice + FF + Thunderbird + Citrix + Remote Desktop client and I'm basically set for my laptop. Like I said, I'm getting on fine with Kubuntu.
mod parent up. I want answers to BOTH those questions.
Everyone says 'get a lawyer'. How much is this going to cost.
I've always assumed they were expensive, and paying a lot just to have someone to call is quite frankly, too expensive. In the last 10 years, I've never needed one. How much would have having one, even just a basic, "starter model" someone competent and cheap, but no frills... what would that have cost me?
And the second question... how does one find a competent one? No one in my social circle has one... so a friends referral is out.
You forgot something when comparing the systems.
Dell runs Windows or Linux.
Mac runs OS X, Windows and Linux...all native.
I didn't forget it.
First... you want to add Windows to your Mac?... add another ~$200 to it.
Face it, unless you want/need OSX, that 24" Apple imac is shit value for the hardware.
Of course, if you want/need OSX then it doesn't matter how shit the value is because you don't have any real choice. Its either get an Apple or strike out into the land of Hackintosh. (But remember, if you do strike out into the land of hackintosh, it runs native -- "no VMs are needed")
No need for VMs.
Ironic that you bring that up actually. Because while you might not NEED VMs, if you happen to WANT VMs instead of triple booting, you might as well get the Dell, because you Apple won't let you VM OSX even on a Mac. (except for OSX server) and you have to strike out into the land of hackintosh anyway.
Keep your TV tuner, I'll stick with my Mac.
And the quad core cpu, and the faster video card, and the bluray drive, and the better webcam, oh yeah, and the $250 bucks cash.
I get ALL that extra. You give all that up for the priviledge of booting OS X with Apple's blessing. Was it worth it?
You must REALLY value OS X. You'd be paying a $500-$600 premium to be able use it.
As for the height thing, many cities still use horses in dense urban areas (though I've never seen them at an airport).
I'm not sure a horse would work well in an airport. They are too big for a lot of areas... and they periodically need to relieve themselves.