----------------------rather than just being snarky, I will answer the topic question----------------------
I got my BS in Electrical Engineering, and my MS in Computer Engineering.
I learned how to build bridges, how transistors operate, how to build a laser from spare atoms, how to interpret signals (hardware and software), how to program in ASM/C/C++, how to maintain network uptime, how to write a program which learns, and many other things. Some of these use advanced math, some of them do not. If you want to be a good programmer, you will recognize that the good programmers are frequently the ones with good math skills.
I am in a semi-management, semi-worker role. I use calculus a couple times a week if I am lucky, and trigonometry in practically every program I've written. However, I would not have been able to fully understand laser operation without at least differential equations. AI programs have required a staggering variety of discrete mathematics (that probably don't need calculus).
As an CS intern, I used almost no mathematics (and more screwdrivers). However, I worked with sonar software, and the people who understood how sonar operated (differential equations) were the people who were in lead technical roles. Their understanding of mathematics/sonar lead directly to higher pay, more flexible hours, increased responsibility, and job security. The skilled person with knowledge is frequently the last to be laid off, and the first to be moved out of a sinking ship.
To use a car analogy: "Do I have to know how a transmission works in order to change it out?" "No. But it helps. And it is not likely that you will become a Master Mechanic without understanding it." "Do I have to know math in order to program?" "No. But it helps. And you are unlikely to become a Lead Engineer without understanding it."
I was a 4 year user of linux (RedHat, Fedora, Ubuntu, Centos, Mandriva, and Yellow Dog off the top of my head) until Gnome 3 came along. Then the configuration became a chore every time I wanted to use my home computer. Then I switched jobs into a position which forces Win7 use. Then I wanted to play Borderlands with a few friends of mine. Then I was/am writing a dissertation across the library/home/work/school/travel computers and need EndNote and Word to work.
My computer still dual-boots, but it has been over 9 months since I've booted to Linux.
I was using Linux when it easy, and wasn't getting in the way. Now I use Windows 7 for the same reason. I will happily switch in the event that things reverse themselves again.
Same for any job. Enough to be immune to luring away (or bribing) from the competition. Enough to afford for the individual's set of skills. Enough to be commensurate with responsibility.
The CEO of NPR makes $450K/year. The CEO of Unicef makes $473K/year. The CEO of the American Red Cross makes $1M/year. The CEO of the Boys & Girls Club makes $1M. This list could go on.
I would, however, say that the role of ICANN is more important, requires a higher skillset, and is more likely to be bribed than many of these other positions*.
* - except the American Red Cross, but they are also paid more...
I'm curious: how much do you think that someone who runs the internet should be paid?
Keep in mind that many parts of it are now the commercial/communication/entertainment hub to the world.
Do you think it should be less than priceline.com ($50M), Qualcomm ($36M), Viacom ($31M), Time Warner ($20M), and eBay ($15M). Presumably, he has the skillset to do most of these jobs. Microsoft clocks in at $1.4M, so he is making roughly half of that...
He isn't exactly getting stock options to sweeten the deal...
Your use of the word 'free' is misplaced. This is vertical integration, plain and simple. In the early 1900s, Andrew Carnegie controlled the iron ore, steel manufacturing (made of iron), railroad tracks (made of steel), and railroad cars (to ship iron to manufacturing/selling, and steel for selling).
You wouldn't say that the iron was 'free' to Carnegie Steel because they owned the mines, would you? Content provisioning won't be 'free' to Google, as they have to buy/maintain the servers.
The grandparent poster is insisting on his right to both complain and move his business. In fact, he does so in the 12 words after your quote: "And if you insist on not taking it then do so silently" (written sarcastically).
Amen. "COMPANY wastes money on software that doesn't work!" is a terrible story, to which people respond "who cares". "GOVERNMENT wastes YOUR MONEY on software that doesn't work" is much better story.
I believe that it is really because the software industry is young. Most industries went though this phase for a while before discovering the truth: The REAL money comes from the next project.
Scientists report that scientists are testing monkeys to see if the monkeys would make good scientists. This would save money because the monkey scientists perform the experiments on themselves. However, it's not all good news though. Some scientists are going to be out of a job, unless, of course, they happen to be monkeys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOxYKuaUqt8#t=31s
I know that I'm feeding the trolls here, but these are not "small time crooks". These are people who are guilty of industrial espionage, for the purpose of manufacturing. They didn't steal bread so they could feed their family, or cigarettes to feed an addiction, they stole sworn secrets so that their factories could undercut a legally held protection, and they could make millions because they are greedy, dishonest, criminals. They were then caught, and then sent to jail. Even the jail sentence is roughly similar to the jail sentence for this crime in the rest of the world.
These are not "small time criminals", they are "industrial spies/saboteurs". You're damned right that I'm going to mark someone guilty of industrial espionage with a criminal record.
Also, "very little to lose by committing future crimes"? You know that you eventually get out of jail, right? They didn't take away the right to have a family, work a job, save money for retirement, enjoy hobbies, travel the world, or anything permanent. They put them in jail. For crime.
Would you suggest a fine? If the punishment is fining, it simply becomes part of the cost of doing business (each business dos a cost vs. benefit for breaking the law, based on financial incentives and disincentives).
In America, this comes with a 24-month sentence, and Australia is up to 15 years, so it isn't entirely out of line with what other parts of the world do.
I'm in Florida, and I don't understand why people go out of state, but the tuition costs are something like 20K across 4 years. My degree (04-08) was ~300/class, 3 credits/class, 128 credits/degree. This is ~13K (minimum, no retaken classes or electives) for the degree cost. So you have to ask yourself: "how do people graduate with 50K in debt?". It is actually easier than you think.
1 - No job or other source of income/aid/scholarship 2 - rent - (4 bedroom apartment, 4 people, shuttle access to campus, utilities included) - 500/month = 24K 3 - car - $20 biweekly for gas, $1000/year insurance, $1000/year maintaining (my number, roughly) = 2K+4K+4K = 10K 4 - parking - 100/year =.4K 5 - food - I'm being stingy ($5/meal, skip breakfast daily) - 250/month = 12K
These numbers assume that the person is _very_ boring (no money on clothes/shopping/entertainment), cheap ($5 for every meal), creative (buy/sell textbooks online (way in advance, if possible) for net 0 cost during degree), and somewhat subsidized (no clothing purchases, cell phone, or non-car-insurance). However, you will note that most of these costs are avoidable if you follow a simple strategy: 1 - Get a job/internship. Even $7/hour for 20 hours a week monitoring a computer lab pays 29K over the course of the degree. Engineering internships are known to pay $20 or more. Mine engineering internship paid $12, and later $13, while my tutoring gig paid $10, and working in a restaurant paid $9. +29-54K (or more) 2 - Ditch the car. They are a luxury, and you don't need it. -10.4K 3 - Get a scholarship. Bright Futures in this state will pay all tuition costs (and give stipend for books!) for some fairly minimal high school investment. -13K. (and another 1.6K for books if you can grab it).
If you do all of this, you can come out at: rent(24)+food(12)-job(29) = 7K in debt/loans. If you can find a $10/hour job (or work 28 hours weekly), this is another 12K in income and you will have made 5K in college.
No one's delaying their release into the workplace to get a PhD so that they can make a better contribution to "the world," period. People pursue a PhD so that they can stay in academia, where they are comfortable and proficient, and make as much money in academia as an academic can.
I am working full time while obtaining my PhD. I am getting the PhD because it is teaching me to do the things that are required, and that I cannot learn elsewhere. While I have not delayed my entry into the workforce (I like money), one of the reasons that I am getting it is because I want to make a contribution to the world. Everyone has goals in life, and while some people have goals like "own box seats to the Packers", "pay for my grandchildren's college", and "backpack through Europe" others have goals like "make a difference in the world". These are what you want out of life, and I find your derision of "help the world" to be insulting.
Since academic institutions profit directly from the milling of PhD degrees
The idea that academic institutions make any money on PhD students is downright false. The fact of the matter (and I've spoken with numerous professors/advisors about this) is that "suckers pay for their PhD". This is a direct quote from Dr. Kapoor (http://www.nanovk.com/), who has had 40+ MS/PhD students. Nearly everyone obtains funding from a number of sources (I've only met one person who didn't, and they just didn't try), including: 1 - work on a grant project (if you do your dissertation on an aspect of the project) 2 - RA work (live in the dorms for free, get tuition comp'ed, and get little-$ for it) 3 - TA work 4 - the school itself 5 - their work (full time work/part time school) 6 - Work program (work pays you go go an get skills they are interested in, owe time afterwards) 7 - governmental aid program (non-loan) 8 - grant program/award (NSF or the like) 9 - outside agency help (NAACP or whatever) 10 - outside governmental involvement (foreign government sends people to America to be educated, brings them back afterwards) Keep in mind that many of these program stack. You can sign up for RA work (free place to live and money) to have your tuition paid for (easy), get a NSF grant (not easy), work on funded projects for your major advisor (very easy), and get a bit of outside agency help (moderate). Of course you have to produce through this time.
Also, getting someone through their PhD is incredibly time-consuming on behalf of the professor and organization. Although the school is compensated for the classes, they have to compensate the student for project work. Then, they get to foot the uncountable-but-still-very-real cost of advising PhD students (~2 hours/week at ~$100/hour = ~$10K/year for 4-5 years) with professor time.
As an aside to the last point, I wonder why blackouts happen so regularly in the US while the are exceedingly rare in Europe. I am in Belgium and I get a "blackout" once every decade or something. I do sometimes experience glitches where you see the lights dim and computers with lousy power supplies reboot... once every few years or so. It suggests to me, whatever the problem is, it isn't technical...
Posting from Florida, most (all, I think) of the blackouts that I've experienced in my life (25 years) have been the result of a minor disaster tearing down a line. Usually this is in the "lightning hit a tree and it fell on a power line"-type of disaster, but includes the occasional tornado/hurricane. Keep in mind, we have significantly-above-average lightning strikes here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Global_lightning_strikes.png
I experience 2-3 blackouts yearly, which last no longer than 4 hours or so, and usually occur after 7PM (when the daily rainstorms come through). I get a power flicker (brown out, alarm clocks die) every month or so, related to the same issues as above.
Hate to break it to you cowboy, but out of over 60 keyboard layouts the only ones with a and y anywhere near each other are the Bulgarian and Ukrainian. Given the incredible meaning differences in the words and unconventionality of use (rules out non-native speaker issues), and the unlikeliness of the layout, it is incredibly unlikely that this mistake is made by anything other than: a) intentional, or b) force of habit.
Slashdot Mirror
If only there were some way to transform a discrete-represented signal in to a continuous-represented signal... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilinear_transform
----------------------rather than just being snarky, I will answer the topic question----------------------
I got my BS in Electrical Engineering, and my MS in Computer Engineering.
I learned how to build bridges, how transistors operate, how to build a laser from spare atoms, how to interpret signals (hardware and software), how to program in ASM/C/C++, how to maintain network uptime, how to write a program which learns, and many other things. Some of these use advanced math, some of them do not. If you want to be a good programmer, you will recognize that the good programmers are frequently the ones with good math skills.
I am in a semi-management, semi-worker role. I use calculus a couple times a week if I am lucky, and trigonometry in practically every program I've written. However, I would not have been able to fully understand laser operation without at least differential equations. AI programs have required a staggering variety of discrete mathematics (that probably don't need calculus).
As an CS intern, I used almost no mathematics (and more screwdrivers). However, I worked with sonar software, and the people who understood how sonar operated (differential equations) were the people who were in lead technical roles. Their understanding of mathematics/sonar lead directly to higher pay, more flexible hours, increased responsibility, and job security. The skilled person with knowledge is frequently the last to be laid off, and the first to be moved out of a sinking ship.
To use a car analogy:
"Do I have to know how a transmission works in order to change it out?" "No. But it helps. And it is not likely that you will become a Master Mechanic without understanding it."
"Do I have to know math in order to program?" "No. But it helps. And you are unlikely to become a Lead Engineer without understanding it."
PREACH IT BROTHER!
I was a 4 year user of linux (RedHat, Fedora, Ubuntu, Centos, Mandriva, and Yellow Dog off the top of my head) until Gnome 3 came along. Then the configuration became a chore every time I wanted to use my home computer. Then I switched jobs into a position which forces Win7 use. Then I wanted to play Borderlands with a few friends of mine. Then I was/am writing a dissertation across the library/home/work/school/travel computers and need EndNote and Word to work.
My computer still dual-boots, but it has been over 9 months since I've booted to Linux.
I was using Linux when it easy, and wasn't getting in the way. Now I use Windows 7 for the same reason. I will happily switch in the event that things reverse themselves again.
I don't see why it's any more complicated than:
I gave the bank X dollars. I have not withdrawn any money. They owe me X dollars.
My business gave the bank X dollars. My business has not withdrawn any money. They owe my business X dollars.
Fixed.
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/dmsp/interest/wilma.html
By the ocean is where the people live...
Same for any job. Enough to be immune to luring away (or bribing) from the competition. Enough to afford for the individual's set of skills. Enough to be commensurate with responsibility.
The CEO of NPR makes $450K/year. The CEO of Unicef makes $473K/year. The CEO of the American Red Cross makes $1M/year. The CEO of the Boys & Girls Club makes $1M. This list could go on.
I would, however, say that the role of ICANN is more important, requires a higher skillset, and is more likely to be bribed than many of these other positions*.
* - except the American Red Cross, but they are also paid more...
I'm curious: how much do you think that someone who runs the internet should be paid?
Keep in mind that many parts of it are now the commercial/communication/entertainment hub to the world.
Do you think it should be less than priceline.com ($50M), Qualcomm ($36M), Viacom ($31M), Time Warner ($20M), and eBay ($15M). Presumably, he has the skillset to do most of these jobs. Microsoft clocks in at $1.4M, so he is making roughly half of that...
He isn't exactly getting stock options to sweeten the deal...
I find that I am comfortable with this number.
Your use of the word 'free' is misplaced. This is vertical integration, plain and simple. In the early 1900s, Andrew Carnegie controlled the iron ore, steel manufacturing (made of iron), railroad tracks (made of steel), and railroad cars (to ship iron to manufacturing/selling, and steel for selling).
You wouldn't say that the iron was 'free' to Carnegie Steel because they owned the mines, would you? Content provisioning won't be 'free' to Google, as they have to buy/maintain the servers.
also all of that depends on varying definition of what people perceive as "too much" or "too little".
As a competitor, the answers are "anything more than me", and "regulations should prevent these unfair market practices", in that order.
With all due respect, sir, this article is specifically about the opposite.
So you are saying that the problem is that Google creates a demand for knowledge...
The grandparent poster is insisting on his right to both complain and move his business. In fact, he does so in the 12 words after your quote: "And if you insist on not taking it then do so silently" (written sarcastically).
Amen. "COMPANY wastes money on software that doesn't work!" is a terrible story, to which people respond "who cares". "GOVERNMENT wastes YOUR MONEY on software that doesn't work" is much better story.
I believe that it is really because the software industry is young. Most industries went though this phase for a while before discovering the truth: The REAL money comes from the next project.
Scientists report that scientists are testing monkeys to see if the monkeys would make good scientists. This would save money because the monkey scientists perform the experiments on themselves. However, it's not all good news though. Some scientists are going to be out of a job, unless, of course, they happen to be monkeys. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOxYKuaUqt8#t=31s
Relevant Ren and Stimpy reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP0kWqJJZa4
I know that I'm feeding the trolls here, but these are not "small time crooks". These are people who are guilty of industrial espionage, for the purpose of manufacturing. They didn't steal bread so they could feed their family, or cigarettes to feed an addiction, they stole sworn secrets so that their factories could undercut a legally held protection, and they could make millions because they are greedy, dishonest, criminals. They were then caught, and then sent to jail. Even the jail sentence is roughly similar to the jail sentence for this crime in the rest of the world.
These are not "small time criminals", they are "industrial spies/saboteurs". You're damned right that I'm going to mark someone guilty of industrial espionage with a criminal record.
Also, "very little to lose by committing future crimes"? You know that you eventually get out of jail, right? They didn't take away the right to have a family, work a job, save money for retirement, enjoy hobbies, travel the world, or anything permanent. They put them in jail. For crime .
Would you suggest a fine? If the punishment is fining, it simply becomes part of the cost of doing business (each business dos a cost vs. benefit for breaking the law, based on financial incentives and disincentives). In America, this comes with a 24-month sentence, and Australia is up to 15 years, so it isn't entirely out of line with what other parts of the world do.
For that you need a math coprocessor.
Thank God they are only cheating this once!
Hard access trumps software access every time, and the example is quite clear in this instance.
Black tape.
There is always the opportunity for debt.
I'm in Florida, and I don't understand why people go out of state, but the tuition costs are something like 20K across 4 years. My degree (04-08) was ~300/class, 3 credits/class, 128 credits/degree. This is ~13K (minimum, no retaken classes or electives) for the degree cost. So you have to ask yourself: "how do people graduate with 50K in debt?". It is actually easier than you think.
1 - No job or other source of income/aid/scholarship .4K
2 - rent - (4 bedroom apartment, 4 people, shuttle access to campus, utilities included) - 500/month = 24K
3 - car - $20 biweekly for gas, $1000/year insurance, $1000/year maintaining (my number, roughly) = 2K+4K+4K = 10K
4 - parking - 100/year =
5 - food - I'm being stingy ($5/meal, skip breakfast daily) - 250/month = 12K
Cost = tuition/fees (13) + rent (24) + car (10) + parking (.4) + food (12) = 59.4K
These numbers assume that the person is _very_ boring (no money on clothes/shopping/entertainment), cheap ($5 for every meal), creative (buy/sell textbooks online (way in advance, if possible) for net 0 cost during degree), and somewhat subsidized (no clothing purchases, cell phone, or non-car-insurance). However, you will note that most of these costs are avoidable if you follow a simple strategy:
1 - Get a job/internship. Even $7/hour for 20 hours a week monitoring a computer lab pays 29K over the course of the degree. Engineering internships are known to pay $20 or more. Mine engineering internship paid $12, and later $13, while my tutoring gig paid $10, and working in a restaurant paid $9. +29-54K (or more)
2 - Ditch the car. They are a luxury, and you don't need it. -10.4K
3 - Get a scholarship. Bright Futures in this state will pay all tuition costs (and give stipend for books!) for some fairly minimal high school investment. -13K. (and another 1.6K for books if you can grab it).
If you do all of this, you can come out at: rent(24)+food(12)-job(29) = 7K in debt/loans. If you can find a $10/hour job (or work 28 hours weekly), this is another 12K in income and you will have made 5K in college.
Jobs and scholarships for the win.
No one's delaying their release into the workplace to get a PhD so that they can make a better contribution to "the world," period. People pursue a PhD so that they can stay in academia, where they are comfortable and proficient, and make as much money in academia as an academic can.
I am working full time while obtaining my PhD. I am getting the PhD because it is teaching me to do the things that are required, and that I cannot learn elsewhere. While I have not delayed my entry into the workforce (I like money), one of the reasons that I am getting it is because I want to make a contribution to the world. Everyone has goals in life, and while some people have goals like "own box seats to the Packers", "pay for my grandchildren's college", and "backpack through Europe" others have goals like "make a difference in the world". These are what you want out of life, and I find your derision of "help the world" to be insulting.
Since academic institutions profit directly from the milling of PhD degrees
The idea that academic institutions make any money on PhD students is downright false. The fact of the matter (and I've spoken with numerous professors/advisors about this) is that "suckers pay for their PhD". This is a direct quote from Dr. Kapoor (http://www.nanovk.com/), who has had 40+ MS/PhD students. Nearly everyone obtains funding from a number of sources (I've only met one person who didn't, and they just didn't try), including:
1 - work on a grant project (if you do your dissertation on an aspect of the project)
2 - RA work (live in the dorms for free, get tuition comp'ed, and get little-$ for it)
3 - TA work
4 - the school itself
5 - their work (full time work/part time school)
6 - Work program (work pays you go go an get skills they are interested in, owe time afterwards)
7 - governmental aid program (non-loan)
8 - grant program/award (NSF or the like)
9 - outside agency help (NAACP or whatever)
10 - outside governmental involvement (foreign government sends people to America to be educated, brings them back afterwards)
Keep in mind that many of these program stack. You can sign up for RA work (free place to live and money) to have your tuition paid for (easy), get a NSF grant (not easy), work on funded projects for your major advisor (very easy), and get a bit of outside agency help (moderate). Of course you have to produce through this time.
Also, getting someone through their PhD is incredibly time-consuming on behalf of the professor and organization. Although the school is compensated for the classes, they have to compensate the student for project work. Then, they get to foot the uncountable-but-still-very-real cost of advising PhD students (~2 hours/week at ~$100/hour = ~$10K/year for 4-5 years) with professor time.
As an aside to the last point, I wonder why blackouts happen so regularly in the US while the are exceedingly rare in Europe. I am in Belgium and I get a "blackout" once every decade or something. I do sometimes experience glitches where you see the lights dim and computers with lousy power supplies reboot... once every few years or so. It suggests to me, whatever the problem is, it isn't technical...
Posting from Florida, most (all, I think) of the blackouts that I've experienced in my life (25 years) have been the result of a minor disaster tearing down a line. Usually this is in the "lightning hit a tree and it fell on a power line"-type of disaster, but includes the occasional tornado/hurricane. Keep in mind, we have significantly-above-average lightning strikes here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Global_lightning_strikes.png
I experience 2-3 blackouts yearly, which last no longer than 4 hours or so, and usually occur after 7PM (when the daily rainstorms come through). I get a power flicker (brown out, alarm clocks die) every month or so, related to the same issues as above.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout
Hate to break it to you cowboy, but out of over 60 keyboard layouts the only ones with a and y anywhere near each other are the Bulgarian and Ukrainian. Given the incredible meaning differences in the words and unconventionality of use (rules out non-native speaker issues), and the unlikeliness of the layout, it is incredibly unlikely that this mistake is made by anything other than: a) intentional, or b) force of habit.
Both of those conclusions are... odd.
And then only businesses that obey the law will be left!